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Pakistan bowled out for 273 in the first innings on Day 3 as England opt to enforce follow-on

Junaids said:
[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]

Dom Bess is only a reserve spin bowler at Somerset because Jack Leach is obviously a better bowler.

But Bess plays ahead of Leach for England, because Ed Smith understands that a spinner is only rarely a frontline bowler in these conditions, and mainly plays as a batsman.

Compare how Yasir is used in 2020 (and 2016) with how Shadab was used in 2018.

Yes, only Yasir can come on after 10 overs like here and bowl 39-3-173-2 at an economy of 4.44.

But I don’t want my spinner on in England after 10 overs on Day 1.

I want my third and fourth quick to come on then. My spinner is just there to bat and field in the first 3 innings and to bowl a few overs for variety.

Yasir Shah bowled 3 maidens in 39 overs. Outside Asia that’s what he does - he releases the pressure and is overbowled.
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Your usual failure to understand the context. And, if this Ed Smith guy is selecting Bess for this wonderful logic of yours - he won't keep his job for long.

Coming to England's strategy - being an Englishman, you failed to understand the logic. ENG doesn't have a quality specialist spinner, therefore for them it's quite logical to pick the better batsman over a specialist spinner because that specialist spinner is not going to pull some trees here. But, had ENG got a spinner taking 200+ wicket in 35 or so Tests, trust me, they would have put a statue at Piccadilly Circus ...... example - even in this modern era of English cricket genuine No. 11 Phil Tufnell has played enough Tests, Swan could have played another 2-3 years had he not choked out and Panesar would have definitely played close to 100 Tests for ENG ..... even after the understanding of Ed Smith. And, context of PAK is completely different than ENG - just like Australia, I explained this to you why Aussies won't ever drop Lyon for Maxwell - you failed to learn, or decided not to learn.

Coming to Yasir, I'll again suggest you better don't touch him - you have no idea what he carries for this PAK team. Yasir coming to bowl in 10th over is not a choice, it's a limitation of tal*nt - even in this game guy took ENG middle order out by third hour of first day - then we saw the show of Cyborg Starc & incarnation .... It doesn't help much with 3rd & 4th quick if your first & 2nd are doing jack. Your logic of 4-5-6 bowlers by number is as foolish as BD picking 6 bowlers including Mahmood, Shakib & Miraz, then using Soumya & Momin ...... still result is 575/8D .... six of the 8 taken by Shakib & Taijul - number of bowlers doesn't matter much if there is not enough quality. And, how to use Yasir better - please leave this one at least for Misbah.

Yasir doesn't release pressure - he creates it, which is being released time & again by phast bowling tal*nts - twice in this series. I have seen enough of that tal*nt, which is still making Micky Arthur hankering around PAK coaching role. And this guy Mickey Arthur - I haven't seen a professional so clueless in one particular trait of his job - his two trump cards went for 23-1-95-1 ... defending 277, sums up many loose ends. This clueless guy is one of the main reasons why analysts like you get the chance to pull stats and defame Yasir. Go back two years - I had at least 20 posts on PAK tour of SAF that at Centurion & St. Georges, PAK should play four pacers and allow Yasir to get match fit for J'burg, which is harder surface, bouncier and drier as well because that's the 3rd Test, at the end of season. This guy played Yasir in first two Tests .... then drooped him in 3rd one...... and you are here now to tell about Mickey Arthur's tactics.

And Shadab Khan, OMG ......... even Fawad Alam is better pick than him. Misbah & PAK cricket will need many shots of raw Scotch before dropping Yasir Shah for this all-rounder.
 
Titan24 said:
Team doing well and forming a legacy is more important. If Babar can take that much responsibility and can come up on top is something only time and actually putting responsibility can tell. He has 3 T20s against Eng coming up along with the limited overs series against Zim so lets see how it goes.

Most of the other captains we are seeing around currently became captains at similar age.
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But for that to happen first azhar needs to step down which looks highly unlikely after todays knock
 
Billa86 said:
I guess winning or losing is part of sport. As long as they lose with a battling fight and not just give up.
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Perfect statement. As fans we should expect a degree of fight, passion and guts. Shan showed that in the first test. Azhar showing it today. I don’t think he should be captain, he’s past his best as a player but I really want him to get a century
 
Azharmotoring along atm, have not seen him.ay this fluent for long time. Not even in UAE.
 
Apparently Fawad’s dismissal was on a no-ball.

Gloves of Buttler were in front of the wickets before the edge.
 
Junaids said:
I keep explaining, but you don’t listen.

The point of 5 bowlers is to have 4 quicks in SENA, so that the two kids can bowl short, sharp bursts.

Playing two leggies or four leggies or six leggies still leaves only three quicks.

But Abbas, like in the final warm-up match, is bowling slow-medium and striking at around a wicket every 16 overs.

So the two kids have had to bowl excessively long spells and are down on pace.

England have retained four quicks throughout the series, and Anderson and Broad have been quicker than I have seen either of them for many years.

I don’t believe that Bess is half the bowler or batsman that Shadab is. But England’s balance is clear - four quicks at all times outside Asia.
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You are quite consistent with your assessment - thanks for that. The ratio of Bess vs Shadab is perfectly aligned with your assessment between ENG v PAK .... when it comes to talent, no disconnect there. For rest part, I have posted in another thread.
 
Statistics wise, the highest runs by Pakistan player in the series is quite open now. Shan, Babar, Rizwan and Azhar all have the chance to do that right now.
 
Azhar has paced his innings well. Usually after this many balls he would be on between 60-65.
 
Apparently heavy rain is predicted on day 5. We just need to bat well today and tomorrow. Not impossible, need to fight it out
 
Some of the people here are too hard on the batsmen while making excuses for the bowlers. Give them a far chance.
 
The fact that our fans are talking about the possibility of escaping with a draw because of rain sums up the mentality and attitude of our fans. I am certain this reflects the mindset of the team management as well.

Fans/management of top teams like India, Australia, England and even South Africa and New Zealand would not give a rat’s behind if whether they can avoid losing in this situation or not because of rain.

The only team that should be bothered about rain is England, because they will be robbed of WTC points.
 
Rizwan is good enough to bat at 6. If we could find an all rounder we could bat them at 7 as Rizwan has shown he is good enough for this level.
 
Bahar would have should have might have ought have enjoy batting on this pitch.

He is just a good test player not a world class. We need to accept this.
 
Boy, did I see Azzu scooping one over the slips. He is really enjoying himself, good to see
 
Jofra has been pretty poor. Rabada is much better. I can see why some fans prefer Sam curran
 
Mamoon said:
The fact that our fans are talking about the possibility of escaping with a draw because of rain sums up the mentality and attitude of our fans. I am certain this reflects the mindset of the team management as well.

Fans/management of top teams like India, Australia, England and even South Africa and New Zealand would not give a rat’s behind if whether they can avoid losing in this situation or not because of rain.

The only team that should be bothered about rain is England, because they will be robbed of WTC points.
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We will loss this before tea on day 4.
You know we will loss 2,3 more wickets in the second innings before stumps.

These last 5 wickets are matter of few overs.
 
Afhan Ali said:
Bahar would have should have might have ought have enjoy batting on this pitch.

He is just a good test player not a world class. We need to accept this.
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His first 5 tests in eng were more successful than kohlis first 5 tests
 
sindhiboy said:
Jofra has been pretty poor. Rabada is much better. I can see why some fans prefer Sam curran
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Jofra is overrated, over hyped ordinary bowler who bowls fast..he has good bouncer nothing morethan that. Rabada always bowls fuller lengths where as jofra is more of back of length bowler
 
Afhan Ali said:
We will loss this before tea on day 4.
You know we will loss 2,3 more wickets in the second innings before stumps.

These last 5 wickets are matter of few overs.
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Why are you even watching the match if you already know what is going to happen, Nostradamus?
 
King_Kohli said:
I am happy, don't want see them at top2 in the points list.
;-)
But anything could happen
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I think NZ may end up in final. Their remaining games are easy. They may win every single game.

If that happens, one from India and Australia may miss out.
 
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] still criticising Yasir :)) massive over sight on your part buddy, England would kill to have a spinner of his quality in the team. Unfortunately for Pakistan, Yasir is the only match winner in the team; however he has no support and is used defensively, the overall balance of the bowling attack hurts his effectiveness to, despite that he is still the leading wicket taker for Pakistan in the series
 
Mamoon said:
The fact that our fans are talking about the possibility of escaping with a draw because of rain sums up the mentality and attitude of our fans. I am certain this reflects the mindset of the team management as well.

Fans/management of top teams like India, Australia, England and even South Africa and New Zealand would not give a rat’s behind if whether they can avoid losing in this situation or not because of rain.

The only team that should be bothered about rain is England, because they will be robbed of WTC points.
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Incorrect. All top sides go into a game looking to win. If you can’t do that you fight for a draw. You don’t give up. That’s why there are four possible results in a Test — win, lose, tie or draw. It is a reflection of mental strength to guts it out for a draw if you can’t win
 
gibsyhesperis said:
Incorrect. All top sides go into a game looking to win. If you can’t do that you fight for a draw. You don’t give up. That’s why there are four possible results in a Test — win, lose, tie or draw. It is a reflection of mental strength to guts it out for a draw if you can’t win
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Read my post again. You missed the clue.

It starts with ‘r’.
 
Mamoon said:
The fact that our fans are talking about the possibility of escaping with a draw because of rain sums up the mentality and attitude of our fans. I am certain this reflects the mindset of the team management as well.

Fans/management of top teams like India, Australia, England and even South Africa and New Zealand would not give a rat’s behind if whether they can avoid losing in this situation or not because of rain.

The only team that should be bothered about rain is England, because they will be robbed of WTC points.
Click to expand...

Given the inadequacies of the Pakistan team and with this being the WTC, a draw should almost be like a win for you though and especially the points which you will receive. So there's a lot to be reasonably happy about although Pak will be gutted about losing the nail biter
 
Mamoon said:
The fact that our fans are talking about the possibility of escaping with a draw because of rain sums up the mentality and attitude of our fans. I am certain this reflects the mindset of the team management as well.

Fans/management of top teams like India, Australia, England and even South Africa and New Zealand would not give a rat’s behind if whether they can avoid losing in this situation or not because of rain.

The only team that should be bothered about rain is England, because they will be robbed of WTC points.
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Much of what you post is interesting but this is imply incorrect. It is a sign of mental strength to fight for a draw of you can’t win. All top sides do this — it is a reflection of character. If you can’t win, you make sure you don’t lose
 
shaz619 said:
Given the inadequacies of the Pakistan team and with this being the WTC, a draw should almost be like a win for you though and especially the points which you will receive. So there's a lot to be reasonably happy about although Pak will be gutted about losing the nail biter
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Exactly
 
Azhar 11 short of match nasim ul ghanis record for highest score by pakistani night watchmen.
 
I think on this wkt its mainly about the first 40 odd overs wer the bowl does a bit aswell as the pitch as we saw with the England innings. Same thing with Pakistan Now. They lost half of the top order in the testing stages when the ball was doing a bit and the pitch was offering assistance to the bowlers. Now its all favouring the batsmen with nothing in it for the bowlers. Maybe now All those who were criticising the bowlers should take ther words back.
 
Saying that if these 2 Carry on playing attacking cricket and stay intact,i think Pakistan can cut through a chunk of that England lead tonight seen as play can carry on till 7.30pm. We have around 40 overs left. So 3.5 rr times 40 = 140. So Pakistan could take themselves to a very safe position by close of play tonight.
 
sindhiboy said:
Jofra has been pretty poor. Rabada is much better. I can see why some fans prefer Sam curran
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Its not even a comparison. Rabada is a potential great in the making when it comes to tests and his stats of 197 wkts at an average of 22 reflect that.

Archer is a newbie and is still trying to establish himself in tests. He surely has potential but we cant really compare him to some of the best test bowlers around at this stage of his test career in which he hasnt set the world on fire as well.
 
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somebody was telling us that archers the best in the world :23:
 
Joe root has take out slips and spread the field. I think hes realised with the batsmen playimg freely he's most likely to get a wkt by spreading the field catching the batsmen out olaying a shot
 
Mamoon said:
The fact that our fans are talking about the possibility of escaping with a draw because of rain sums up the mentality and attitude of our fans. I am certain this reflects the mindset of the team management as well.

Fans/management of top teams like India, Australia, England and even South Africa and New Zealand would not give a rat’s behind if whether they can avoid losing in this situation or not because of rain.

The only team that should be bothered about rain is England, because they will be robbed of WTC points.
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Only difference is Pak are trying to put a fight and not just relying on rain. And yes top teams would also hope dor escape with rain as has happened so many times had they found themselves in such position.
 
Very well played Azhar, respect. I knew if anyone can stand-up for a fight in this line-up, it'll be Azhar. Another 2-3 years guaranteed, but I would love to see him stepping down as Captain and focus on opening for PAK.
 
shaz619 said:
Given the inadequacies of the Pakistan team and with this being the WTC, a draw should almost be like a win for you though and especially the points which you will receive. So there's a lot to be reasonably happy about although Pak will be gutted about losing the nail biter
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gibsyhesperis said:
Much of what you post is interesting but this is imply incorrect. It is a sign of mental strength to fight for a draw of you can’t win. All top sides do this — it is a reflection of character. If you can’t win, you make sure you don’t lose
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There is a difference between batting out a draw and praying for rain.

If Pakistan can hold onto 15 wickets over the next 7 sessions, they will deserve all the credit and praise in the world. However, we have people here who are praying for rain and making calculations of how Pakistan can escape with a draw in that situation.

Unfortunately, I am sure that the team management are thinking along the same lines as well.

For proper teams with a winning attitude, the possibility of rain would not be a factor in this situation. You either bat out a draw or you lose.
 
17 year old teen Naseem Shah bowled better than 25 year old 8 year senior Archer to be honest .
 
PakPremi said:
Only difference is Pak are trying to put a fight and not just relying on rain. And yes top teams would also hope dor escape with rain as has happened so many times had they found themselves in such position.
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No top team would bother about rain in this situation.

The issue is that Pakistani fans don’t know ABC about top teams. This generation of fans will never understand what it is like to be a top team and what their thought process is.
 
shaz619 said:
Not for England and their plans for the return series :afridi
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Archer has alot more international and domestic experience than Naseem. Cannot believe some jumpy posters already writing him off, and some senior and knowledgeable posters calling him Cyborg Starc etc.
 
MMHS said:
Very well played Azhar, respect. I knew if anyone can stand-up for a fight in this line-up, it'll be Azhar. Another 2-3 years guaranteed, but I would love to see him stepping down as Captain and focus on opening for PAK.
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Spot on... .
 
archers only interested in showing off his gold chain, oh look at me and my bling
 
Pakistan are trailing by 390 runs.

Even if there is no rain, this match is probably going to be a draw. England declared too late.
 
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