Pakistan cricket's demise on the horizon?

[Monday Morning]

Pakistan cricket has been in steady decline for decades now.

They were a top 3 side for about 15 years from the late 80s to the early 00s, that slid to a top 6 side for another 15 years until about the 2019 WC.

Since then (WT20 2022 fluke aside), this team has become minnow-level. They will almost always lose to the top 5-6 sides and will huff and puff against teams they would routinely beat previously.

This isn't a case of "success is cyclical". You could say that for tiny populations like NZ or WI. This is a terminal decline with no signs of recovery.

Pakistan cricket has neither the structure* nor the investment to escape this mess. Something similar happened in hockey and Pakistan are barely in the top 20 now.

The optimistic case, given cricket's popularity in the country, is Pakistan resembles an African football side that produces a golden generation once in a while, but can't sustain success.

*None of the subcontinent countries do, including India. But only India has the riches to overcome a crappy domestic setup.

 

[jnaveen1980]

"Pakistan is an unpredictable side. They can beat Australia one day. lose to Netherlands next day" - You should continue running with this as long as you can ! This theory almost always bails Pakistan out making them look like a threatening but inconsistent side.

 

[Kroll]

Think its well past the horizon stage and staring us point blank on the face at the doorstep.

 

[Bhaijaan]

On a given day, this team has the talent to beat any team in the world, allegedly.

 

[Monday Morning]

On a given day, this team has the talent to beat any team in the world, allegedly.

More like they're so talentless, they could lose to any team in the world.

What's worse is they don't even put up a fight. Afghanistan in the WC and Bangladesh today won with ease. Even the USA of all teams was cantering to a win in the regular overs.

 

[mominsaigol]

We crossed the horizon.

 

[IMMY69]

These performances (losses) should not surprise anyone.

How many coaches, captains, selectors, PCB chiefs have we been through over the last two years?

3 nil loss to England at home
Loss to Afghans in Asia cup
Struggle against Kiwis D team at home
Loss to USA in a World Cup

Not to mention the diabolical 2023 World Cup campaign...

The country is in turmoil and its cricket is reflecting that..

We've lost the inconsisten tag and are now just consistently awful.

RIP

 

[mominsaigol]

These performances (losses) should not surprise anyone.

How many coaches, captains, selectors, PCB chiefs have we been through over the last two years?

3 nil loss to England at home
Loss to Afghans in Asia cup
Struggle against Kiwis D team at home
Loss to USA in a World Cup

Not to mention the diabolical 2023 World Cup campaign...

The country is in turmoil and its cricket is reflecting that..

We've lost the inconsisten tag and are now just consistently awful.

RIP

I think you made a typo, as we lost to afg in the world cup not asia cup.

 

[cricketcricket79]

Kind of disappointing to see cricket dying in Pakistan but not unexpected given the mismanagement that has been going on for years and years at every level of Pakistan cricket. I can’t think of one good move Pakistan cricket has made(maybe PSL?) in last few years.

 

[IMMY69]

I think you made a typo, as we lost to afg in the world cup not asia cup.

Yes my mistake...
But we were awful in the Asia Cup too...

 

[FearlessRoar]

Even if Mohammad Rizwan, Babar Azam ,Shaheen Afridi are dropped from all formats you think Pakistan Cricket will magically start dominating cricket like in the 90s? It doesn't work like that. They're already in a big hole and it will take 3-5 years to come out of it.

 

[MMHS]

I think it started long back - most people were in denial, finally getting up to the reality.

Most of my contemporaries have left PP, therefore new generation whose who started following PAK cricket already into decline, therefore their starting bench mark was already from a point of downward slope - they can’t comprehend the magnitude of the free fall.

Those of us who have a faded memory starting from early to mid 80s actually could see the intensity of the decline - for me, from being among top 2 teams in world and being the most exciting team around, with some of the best ever mercurial individuals of the game …. in 4 decades losing a home Test to BD by 10 wickets is different from someone who started watching PAK cricket from sometimes say losing to Ireland in WC or loosing a Test at Bobby Mughabe’s Zimbabwe to today.

I still believe the problem started from sometimes around 1998 - when PCA forced ECB to limit foreigners from almost unlimited numbers to only 1 in County cricket. The path to redemption has to start from that point also (rather I should say finding substitute of that) - don’t see any other way.

 

[Savak]

Even if Mohammad Rizwan, Babar Azam ,Shaheen Afridi are dropped from all formats you think Pakistan Cricket will magically start dominating cricket like in the 90s? It doesn't work like that. They're already in a big hole and it will take 3-5 years to come out of it.

You will atleast have a clean less polluted dressing room and have players with more hunger to perform for the country. The first step towards recovery is to get rid of primma donna's from the dressing room.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

3 phases of decline

1. 1994 neutral umpires.

PAK starts losing multiple home series from the next year

2. 2000-2003 More cameras and less tampering

PAK stop getting massive reverse every other match.

3. 2014 stringent enforcement of chucking rules

No quality spinners in middle overs since.

 

[jnaveen1980]

under-19 performances of Pakistan has been on decline. That is a tell tale sign.

 

[Monday Morning]

I still believe the problem started from sometimes around 1998 - when PCA forced ECB to limit foreigners from almost unlimited numbers to only 1 in County cricket. The path to redemption has to start from that point also (rather I should say finding substitute of that) - don’t see any other way.

Thank you for contextualising the decline.

Along similar lines, I think not being part of the IPL has accelerated the decline, especially in white ball formats. WI's T20 resurgence in the 2010s and Afghanistan recent rise in the format were on the back of having a group of players being mainstays for their IPL teams. You could even make an argument for England's WC win being architected around IPL participation.

 

[NishanKonar]

3 phases of decline

1. 1994 neutral umpires.

PAK starts losing multiple home series from the next year

2. 2000-2003 More cameras and less tampering

PAK stop getting massive reverse every other match.

3. 2014 stringent enforcement of chucking rules

No quality spinners in middle overs since.

The ball tampering issue is actually very underrated

Ever since umpires became vigilant from early 2000s, reverse swing more or less disappeared from Pakistan cricket. Look at old Sharjah matches from the 90s - Waqar & Wasim wud be bowling those big in swinging yorkers. Now we don't see that any more

Other issues ( neutral umpires & ban on chuckers) are applicable to almost every other country

 

[Buffet]

The ball tampering issue is actually very underrated

Ever since umpires became vigilant from early 2000s, reverse swing more or less disappeared from Pakistan cricket. Look at old Sharjah matches from the 90s - Waqar & Wasim wud be bowling those big in swinging yorkers. Now we don't see that any more

Other issues ( neutral umpires & ban on chuckers) are applicable to almost every other country

Puzzling peice is that other teams are out reversing Pakistani pacers by some margin when tampering is not possible so openly. I am not sure about the explanation of Pakistani bowler being so bad with reverse. In flat and dry surfaces, I would expect them to practice maintaining the ball for reverse and get reverse after ball is older.

 

[NishanKonar]

Puzzling peice is that other teams are out reversing Pakistani pacers by some margin when tampering is not possible so openly. I am not sure about the explanation of Pakistani bowler being so bad with reverse. In flat and dry surfaces, I would expect them to practice maintaining the ball for reverse and get reverse after ball is older.

My theory is Pakistanis relied more on ball tempering than technique to get reverse swing. Once ball tampering became impossible, their reverse swing fizzled away bcoz may be their technique was not so great to start with

Other teams like England, India Australia focused more on technique , not tampering when they started to learn reverse swing. Bcoz when they started learning reverse swing in the 2000s , tampering was out of question due to vigilant tv cameras & umpires. So they worked out ways to get reverse swing like wrist position or using sweat / saliva to load one side instead of outright tampering. That's why they revolved better techniques & were able to reverse swing even without tampering. I mean the way Bumrah / Arshdeep were getting reverse swing even in T20s was amazing. Even the Pakistanis were stunned & some like Inzamam claimed Indians were tampering the ball bcoz that's the only way they knew how to get reverse swing

In a way its time for Pakistan to now learn reverse swing from Indians / Australians. How the wheel has turned around 180 degrees

 

[Nikhil_cric]

The ball tampering issue is actually very underrated

Ever since umpires became vigilant from early 2000s, reverse swing more or less disappeared from Pakistan cricket. Look at old Sharjah matches from the 90s - Waqar & Wasim wud be bowling those big in swinging yorkers. Now we don't see that any more

Other issues ( neutral umpires & ban on chuckers) are applicable to almost every other country

Neutral umpires hardly affected the home records of India and Australia for instance. In PAK's case, the impact was almost immediate. They lost a series the very next year to humble Sri Lanka of all teams. And then just kept losing.

Pakistan have struggled to produce a single decent ODI spinner since Ajmal. Every other team has produced at least one.

These changes affected all teams but only PAK looked completely toothless after each change.

 

[Buffet]

My theory is Pakistanis relied more on ball tempering than technique to get reverse swing. Once ball tampering became impossible, their reverse swing fizzled away bcoz may be their technique was not so great to start with

Other teams like England, India Australia focused more on technique , not tampering when they started to learn reverse swing. Bcoz when they started learning reverse swing in the 2000s , tampering was out of question due to vigilant tv cameras & umpires. So they worked out ways to get reverse swing like wrist position or using sweat / saliva to load one side instead of outright tampering. That's why they revolved better techniques & were able to reverse swing even without tampering. I mean the way Bumrah / Arshdeep were getting reverse swing even in T20s was amazing. Even the Pakistanis were stunned & some like Inzamam claimed Indians were tampering the ball bcoz that's the only way they knew how to get reverse swing

In a way its time for Pakistan to now learn reverse swing from Indians / Australians. How the wheel has turned around 180 degrees

But it has been now two decades and Pakistani bowlers should have practiced reverse without openly tampering the balls due to flatter pitches in Pakistan. Your explanation make sense for 5 years or may be 10 years, but I would have expected Pakistani pacers to adapt after some time.

Can anyone, who watches Paksitani domestic, share what kind of pitches are used in domestic? Are they flatish like test piches in Pakistan or have uneven bounce/poor so bowler don't have to really rely on reverse and that's why they don't really learn how to reverse the ball.

 

[NishanKonar]

Neutral umpires hardly affected the home records of India and Australia for instance. In PAK's case, the impact was almost immediate. They lost a series the very next year to humble Sri Lanka of all teams. And then just kept losing.

Pakistan have struggled to produce a single decent ODI spinner since Ajmal. Every other team has produced at least one.

These changes affected all teams but only PAK looked completely toothless after each change.

No I mean most countries had biased home umpires - except for England to some extent. Especially Australian umpires were notorious but their team since 1994 was so good - that it never mattered. Same with India - in the 90s India was unbeatable at home due to Anil Kumble bowling on pitches turning square on Day 3 onwards

Yes the 2010-2014 was very good phase for Pakistan was due to Ajmal but they did pretty well in the 90s & 2000s in the past without chuckers

Reverse Swing was a big advantage for Pakistan in the 90s but once umpires became vigilant in the 2000s - it more or less disappeared from the Pakistan armory & the results showed

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Thank you for contextualising the decline.

Along similar lines, I think not being part of the IPL has accelerated the decline, especially in white ball formats. WI's T20 resurgence in the 2010s and Afghanistan recent rise in the format were on the back of having a group of players being mainstays for their IPL teams. You could even make an argument for England's WC win being architected around IPL participation.

Ironically, PSL. Salt, Hales at al were given their chance in PSL

 

[NishanKonar]

But it has been now two decades and Pakistani bowlers should have practiced reverse without openly tampering the balls due to flatter pitches in Pakistan. Your explanation make sense for 5 years or may be 10 years, but I would have expected Pakistani pacers to adapt after some time.

Can anyone, who watches Paksitani domestic, share what kind of pitches are used in domestic? Are they flatish like test piches in Pakistan or have uneven bounce/poor so bowler don't have to really rely on reverse and that's why they don't really learn how to reverse the ball.

Its a fundamental problem with Pakistan cricket. They never evolved with the times. They are still stuck in the 90s. Appplies to reverse swing as well. They still think u need to tamper balls for reverse swing. Basically the learning curve is very poor for Pakistan cricket as a whole. They don't learn from other nations

Like India always envied Pakistan for their fast bowling pedigree but to their credit they worked on this aspect & now have an outstanding fast bowling attack. Pakistan on the other hand failed to produce batters like Kohli / Rohit / Sachin

 

[kingusama92]

My theory is Pakistanis relied more on ball tempering than technique to get reverse swing. Once ball tampering became impossible, their reverse swing fizzled away bcoz may be their technique was not so great to start with

Other teams like England, India Australia focused more on technique , not tampering when they started to learn reverse swing. Bcoz when they started learning reverse swing in the 2000s , tampering was out of question due to vigilant tv cameras & umpires. So they worked out ways to get reverse swing like wrist position or using sweat / saliva to load one side instead of outright tampering. That's why they revolved better techniques & were able to reverse swing even without tampering. I mean the way Bumrah / Arshdeep were getting reverse swing even in T20s was amazing. Even the Pakistanis were stunned & some like Inzamam claimed Indians were tampering the ball bcoz that's the only way they knew how to get reverse swing

In a way its time for Pakistan to now learn reverse swing from Indians / Australians. How the wheel has turned around 180 degrees

Naseem Shah has had numerous spells of quality reverse swing bowling.

I think it's more about execution and fitness rather than not knowing how to do it. You need to have the stamina for later in the innings to get the ball to move at pace.

Even Naseem is not as fit as he should be right now.

 

[NishanKonar]

Ironically, PSL. Salt, Hales at al were given their chance in PSL

Phil Salt , Harry Brook & Hales came to PSL to audition themselves for the IPL. That's a big motivating factor. Once they made it big in IPL, they forgot PSL

Pakistani players have no such motivation - as they cannot play IPL. Hence they never developed their game to IPL standards

 

[NishanKonar]

Naseem Shah has had numerous spells of quality reverse swing bowling.

I think it's more about execution and fitness rather than not knowing how to do it. You need to have the stamina for later in the innings to get the ball to move at pace.

Even Naseem is not as fit as he should be right now.

I saw Naseem Shah bowling in this test match & he was bang average. Its high time Pakistani fans stop overhyping mediocre talents

 

[Buffet]

Neutral umpires hardly affected the home records of India and Australia for instance. In PAK's case, the impact was almost immediate. They lost a series the very next year to humble Sri Lanka of all teams. And then just kept losing.

Pakistan have struggled to produce a single decent ODI spinner since Ajmal. Every other team has produced at least one.

These changes affected all teams but only PAK looked completely toothless after each change.

I tried to see if there are noticeable change after 1994, 10 year before and 10 years after.

1985-1994 - Pakistan W/L at home 6.5
1995-2004 - Pakistan W/L at home 1.1

Some people may say that Pakistan declined but dropping from 6 to 1 so sharply exactly after 1994?

Seems unbelivable when team had Wasim, Waqar, Inzzy, Moyo, Anwar, Saqlain, Akhtar ....


Clearly, team did not decline to warrant such a sharp drop in performance at home. Decline was caused by other factors. You may be right on target here.

 

[Savak]

The players especially the bowlers obsession with T20 leagues is what has caused the downfall.

The decline in our fast bowling and spin bowling in ODI and Test Cricket is linked to our players prioritizing T20 leagues.

PCB needs to scrap all Nocs, any player who threatens to go free lance should be told to take a hike and their Nocs should be banned for 5 years.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Naseem Shah has had numerous spells of quality reverse swing bowling.

I think it's more about execution and fitness rather than not knowing how to do it. You need to have the stamina for later in the innings to get the ball to move at pace.

Even Naseem is not as fit as he should be right now.

The best he bowled was against Australia in 2022. But the trouble was that Starc and Cummins were reversing it just as much if not more in that series.

In years gone by, Pakistani bowlers would reverse the ball in any and every conditions and certainly more than their counterparts from other sides.

The loss of that definitive competitive advantage is something I think Pakistan cricket has never really recovered from or compensated for.

 

[Buffet]

Naseem Shah has had numerous spells of quality reverse swing bowling.

I think it's more about execution and fitness rather than not knowing how to do it. You need to have the stamina for later in the innings to get the ball to move at pace.

Even Naseem is not as fit as he should be right now.

Lack of fitness is clearly visible in all Pakistani pacers because pace drops drastically in later spells.

 

[Buffet]

I tried to see if there are noticeable change after 1994, 10 year before and 10 years after.

1985-1994 - Pakistan W/L at home 6.5
1995-2004 - Pakistan W/L at home 1.1

Some people may say that Pakistan declined but dropping from 6 to 1 so sharply exactly after 1994?

Seems unbelivable when team had Wasim, Waqar, Inzzy, Moyo, Anwar, Saqlain, Akhtar ....


Clearly, team did not decline to warrant such a sharp drop in performance at home. Decline was caused by other factors. You may be right on target here.

Just to add, teams can certainly gets weaker in some period and stronger in another

But no one will say that Pakistan from 1995-2004 ( Wasim, Waqar, Inzzy, Anwar, Saqlain, Akhtar etc ) were drastically weaker team than team of 1985-1994. Such a sharp drop in performance at home can't be explained due to team declining. It seems home domination was built on biased home umpires.

Yes, almost all home umpires were biased, but no team had such a drastic fall despite having good team. Some one can correct me if there is a counter point.

 

[NishanKonar]

Just to add, teams can certainly gets weaker in some period and stronger in another

But no one will say that Pakistan from 1995-2004 ( Wasim, Waqar, Inzzy, Anwar, Saqlain, Akhtar etc ) were drastically weaker team than team of 1985-1994. Such a sharp drop in performance at home can't be explained due to team declining. It seems home domination was built on biased home umpires.

Yes, almost all home umpires were biased, but no team had such a drastic fall despite having good team. Some one can correct me if there is a counter point.

That 1995-2004 was most tumultuous time in Pakistan cricket. Wasim-Waqar fight, numerous revolts in dressing room + match fixing took its toll on the team

I mean Pakistan even lost to Zimbabwe in test series in Pakistan in 1998 against a full fledged team. Can u actually explain such a defeat except for match fixing. Few months later Pakistan lost to Bangladesh in that infamous 1999 WC game with 4 runouts

 

[Nikhil_cric]

That 1995-2004 was most tumultuous time in Pakistan cricket. Wasim-Waqar fight, numerous revolts in dressing room + match fixing took its toll on the team

I mean Pakistan even lost to Zimbabwe in test series in Pakistan in 1998 against a full fledged team. Can u actually explain such a defeat except for match fixing. Few months later Pakistan lost to Bangladesh in that infamous 1999 WC game with 4 runouts

Didn't seem to affect them in ODIs that much. They won a lot of bilateral ODIs against strong teams, Sharjah cups and even didn't affect their Test performances in England and New Zealand , India, SA etc.

Their home Test record is the only one that took such a beating.

 

[NishanKonar]

Didn't seem to affect them in ODIs that much. They won a lot of bilateral ODIs against strong teams, Sharjah cups and even didn't affect their Test performances in England and New Zealand , India, SA etc.

Their home Test record is the only one that took such a beating.

Not really. They used to beat India regularly but against other teams like Australia or South Africa they were poor. In fact Pakistan lost 15 ODIs in a a row against South Africa from 1995-2000. Also lost badly against Sri Lanka during that period in many ODIs ( admittedly a much better Sri Lanka than today's team). In 1997 Sri Lanka thumped Pakistan repeatedly - first in Sharjah, then in India in Independence Cup , then in Sri Lanka in Asia Cup. Aravinda de Silva was nightmare for Pakistani bowlers during that period

In 1997 they hosted a 4 nation Independence Cup to commemorate 50th anniversary of Independence & they could not even reach the final. Also lost 4-1 to India in the Toronto series in 1997. Later that year in the 4 nation Sharjah Cup - they failed to reach the final

A lot of Pakistanis today have rosy picture of the 90s but those days Pakistan cricket had its share of very bad days. Just that there was no internet & social media around

 

[Buffet]

That 1995-2004 was most tumultuous time in Pakistan cricket. Wasim-Waqar fight, numerous revolts in dressing room + match fixing took its toll on the team

I mean Pakistan even lost to Zimbabwe in test series in Pakistan in 1998 against a full fledged team. Can u actually explain such a defeat except for match fixing. Few months later Pakistan lost to Bangladesh in that infamous 1999 WC game with 4 runouts

Didn't seem to affect them in ODIs that much. They won a lot of bilateral ODIs against strong teams, Sharjah cups and even didn't affect their Test performances in England and New Zealand , India, SA etc.

Their home Test record is the only one that took such a beating.

It's a good point. Wasim-Waqar fight, numerous revolts in dressing room + match fixing did not have that kind of impact when Pakistani played outside in test but they simply dropped from W/L of 6 to 1 in home test matches after 1994.

 

[kingusama92]

I saw Naseem Shah bowling in this test match & he was bang average. Its high time Pakistani fans stop overhyping mediocre talents

I'm simply suggesting he knows how to reverse the ball.

 

[kingusama92]

The best he bowled was against Australia in 2022. But the trouble was that Starc and Cummins were reversing it just as much if not more in that series.

In years gone by, Pakistani bowlers would reverse the ball in any and every conditions and certainly more than their counterparts from other sides.

The loss of that definitive competitive advantage is something I think Pakistan cricket has never really recovered from or compensated for.

Definitely true and likely cause modern Pakistani bowlers aren't as good.

None of these guys would be making the team in the 90s and that skill gap is likely a reason they aren't as effective with regular or reverse swing. The pace isn't good either.

Shaheen used to be good with the new ball and now he's not even good at that. You put those 90s bowlers into the team right now and they would do better tampering or not.

 

[Buffet]

Not really. They used to beat India regularly but against other teams like Australia or South Africa they were poor. In fact Pakistan lost 15 ODIs in a a row against South Africa from 1995-2000. Also lost badly against Sri Lanka during that period in many ODIs ( admittedly a much better Sri Lanka than today's team). In 1997 Sri Lanka thumped Pakistan repeatedly - first in Sharjah, then in India in Independence Cup , then in Sri Lanka in Asia Cup. Aravinda de Silva was nightmare for Pakistani bowlers during that period

In 1997 they hosted a 4 nation Independence Cup to commemorate 50th anniversary of Independence & they could not even reach the final. Also lost 4-1 to India in the Toronto series in 1997. Later that year in the 4 nation Sharjah Cup - they failed to reach the final

A lot of Pakistanis today have rosy picture of the 90s but those days Pakistan cricket had its share of very bad days. Just that there was no internet & social media around

Yah, in ODI Pakistan was not that great over all, but Pakistan did not have huge drop in away test performance like they did in home test performance after 1994.

Look at this in test home and away both:

W/L 1985 - 1994 Home: 6.5
W/L 1995 - 2004 Home: 1.1


W/L 1985 - 1994 Away: 1.2
W/L 1995 - 2004 Away: 1.1

No change in test performacnes in away games, but drastic change in home games. I don't think this can be explained by infighting, fixing etc. It looks more and more likely that Nuetral umpires coming in mid 90s destroyed home dominanace of Pakistani team. I know IK advocated for nuetral umpires, but cricekt is far better due to that.

Infighting, fixing etc won't impact only home tests. It should have impact on away tests as well.

 

[Buffet]

Definitely true and likely cause modern Pakistani bowlers aren't as good.

None of these guys would be making the team in the 90s and that skill gap is likely a reason they aren't as effective with regular or reverse swing. The pace isn't good either.

Shaheen used to be good with the new ball and now he's not even good at that. You put those 90s bowlers into the team right now and they would do better tampering or not.

Skill and stamina as well.

Ball tampering and home umpiring looks like helped Paksitani more than others but there is no denying that bowlers like Wasim existed who could use the new ball very well and effective not just in Pakistan but everywhere and agaisnt top teams. I still remember tuning to watch Pakistani games just to see Wasim. Waqar declined really bad, but he never had new ball skills. I am not sure how much he would have done with regular balls, but there is no denying that he could bowl long spells and try to attack even in his 4th spell.

 

[Farabi]

I think it started long back - most people were in denial, finally getting up to the reality.

Most of my contemporaries have left PP, therefore new generation whose who started following PAK cricket already into decline, therefore their starting bench mark was already from a point of downward slope - they can’t comprehend the magnitude of the free fall.

Those of us who have a faded memory starting from early to mid 80s actually could see the intensity of the decline - for me, from being among top 2 teams in world and being the most exciting team around, with some of the best ever mercurial individuals of the game …. in 4 decades losing a home Test to BD by 10 wickets is different from someone who started watching PAK cricket from sometimes say losing to Ireland in WC or loosing a Test at Bobby Mughabe’s Zimbabwe to today.

I still believe the problem started from sometimes around 1998 - when PCA forced ECB to limit foreigners from almost unlimited numbers to only 1 in County cricket. The path to redemption has to start from that point also (rather I should say finding substitute of that) - don’t see any other way.

I’ve been watching since the mid-'90s, so I totally get where you’re coming from. You made a great point about the 1998 county cricket rule change being a key moment, especially since it filled the gap left by weak domestic cricket in Pakistan.

I think the real issue is the drop in mentality. Pakistan cricket has been inconsistent outside the Imran Khan/Javed Miandad era. They set a high bar, and players like Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Saeed Anwar, and Inzamam-ul-Haq aimed to reach it. The work ethic was strong, and the goal was to be top-notch.

When we lost the 1999 World Cup final, many people were so upset that they stopped following cricket. Today, a World Cup final would be celebrated!!

That drive and mentality didn’t stick around, and things got worse under Inzamam when the focus shifted from performance to subjective/religious motivations.

We definitely need a replacement for the quality domestic cricket that county cricket used to provide. But we also need a few standout players and leaders like Imran/Javed combo who can set a high standard and keep it up.

 

[Farabi]

Another big issue which is VERY UNDERRATED is lack of medical science and scientific thinking in general. We’ve lost countless players to injuries who were never the same.

We see Bumrah, Cummins and Archer return at full throttle after serious injuries.

But look at Naseem and Shaheen bowling at 130-135. Shaheen was bowling at 150 KPH in that Pak/SA test series at home. Look at what they did with Ihsannullah!

Haris Sohail, Junaid Khan, Abid Ali, and Azhar Ali. All of these players showed potential but could never return to full fitness and confidence after a medical issue.

 

[Markhor]

But it has been now two decades and Pakistani bowlers should have practiced reverse without openly tampering the balls due to flatter pitches in Pakistan. Your explanation make sense for 5 years or may be 10 years, but I would have expected Pakistani pacers to adapt after some time.

Can anyone, who watches Paksitani domestic, share what kind of pitches are used in domestic? Are they flatish like test piches in Pakistan or have uneven bounce/poor so bowler don't have to really rely on reverse and that's why they don't really learn how to reverse the ball.

When Ramiz Raja was PCB CEO in 2004, he mandated the preparation of bowler friendly domestic wickets. For the next 15 years, PAK FC pitches became paradise for military medium seam and conventional swing bowlers with generous grass coverage.

Moreover, our FC tournaments were typically scheduled between Nov-Jan so the wickets were damp especially in Northern Punjab. Bazid Khan also often mentions the overuse of these wickets due to a lack of FC standard grounds.

Another change during this time was with the ball. PCB constantly tinkered between the Kookaburra to Dukes to a substandard local ball called the Grays which swung prodigiously.

So the innings often never lasted long enough for reverse to become a factor. I once reviewed the 2017-18 Quaid-e-Azam Trophy for the site and in that season there was a game between Lahore Blues and SNGPL featuring no less than seven Pakistan capped players. The scores read 89, 92, 70 and 70-4 with the match over in 4.5 sessions. No skills needed - just the land the ball on a length and let conditions do the work.

Unfortunately since 2019 we've swung to the other extreme by mostly producing batting wickets which doesn't help any bowling. Last year's QEA Trophy saw two 700+ scores at Lahore ! The pitches don't break even on Days 3 and 4. @MMHS has explained the reason behind why PAK pitches don't deteriorate. They are also slow and offer the lowest bounce as per CricViz in the entire subcontinent.

 

[IMMY69]

The best he bowled was against Australia in 2022. But the trouble was that Starc and Cummins were reversing it just as much if not more in that series.

In years gone by, Pakistani bowlers would reverse the ball in any and every conditions and certainly more than their counterparts from other sides.

The loss of that definitive competitive advantage is something I think Pakistan cricket has never really recovered from or compensated for.

So how do you explain our test record in the UAE?

 

[Nikhil_cric]

So how do you explain our test record in the UAE?

Explain what about your record in the UAE?

 

[Energy]

The demise has already happened. Ordinary people are made to believe that the administration and players are doing everything they can for the betterment of the team.

But deep down it's just deep pockets. And shortcuts to reach them. It's a sad reflection of the society. Professionalism isn't our strong suit in any walk of life, even sports.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Yes. There's no stability or planning. Players just aren't good enough despite what fans expect everyone to believe.

 

[Buffet]

When Ramiz Raja was PCB CEO in 2004, he mandated the preparation of bowler friendly domestic wickets. For the next 15 years, PAK FC pitches became paradise for military medium seam and conventional swing bowlers with generous grass coverage.

Moreover, our FC tournaments were typically scheduled between Nov-Jan so the wickets were damp especially in Northern Punjab. Bazid Khan also often mentions the overuse of these wickets due to a lack of FC standard grounds.

Another change during this time was with the ball. PCB constantly tinkered between the Kookaburra to Dukes to a substandard local ball called the Grays which swung prodigiously.

So the innings often never lasted long enough for reverse to become a factor. I once reviewed the 2017-18 Quaid-e-Azam Trophy for the site and in that season there was a game between Lahore Blues and SNGPL featuring no less than seven Pakistan capped players. The scores read 89, 92, 70 and 70-4 with the match over in 4.5 sessions. No skills needed - just the land the ball on a length and let conditions do the work.

Unfortunately since 2019 we've swung to the other extreme by mostly producing batting wickets which doesn't help any bowling. Last year's QEA Trophy saw two 700+ scores at Lahore ! The pitches don't break even on Days 3 and 4. @MMHS has explained the reason behind why PAK pitches don't deteriorate. They are also slow and offer the lowest bounce as per CricViz in the entire subcontinent.

Thanks for this fantastic eductional post.

It make sense now. There was very little motivation to learn how to reverse the ball in domestics. That's the best explanation.

Pakistani pitches were more flat and low bounce even earlier. I have watched cricket since ealriy 90s, but only internationals. I was not aware of 15 years period you decribed in domestic. That's going to damage cricket in any country. Hopefully, domestic set up gets better and run well in future. International is by-product of domestic set up. Yes, time to time some one will come good even from poor system but building a good team becomes very hard. PCB just destroyed the bowling culture instead of capitalizing on it. Bwlers didn't have incentive to develope skills. Now going super flat is also not good. Needs to strike a balance or provide variotions so bowlers are forced to develop well rounded skills. It will help with batsmen also.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

3 phases of decline

1. 1994 neutral umpires.

PAK starts losing multiple home series from the next year

2. 2000-2003 More cameras and less tampering

PAK stop getting massive reverse every other match.

3. 2014 stringent enforcement of chucking rules

No quality spinners in middle overs since.

Tasteless post. Expect better from you.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Tasteless post. Expect better from you.

I don't see what's so controversial about it. Cricket has only gotten cleaner as a sport since that "Wild, Wild West" era.

Other teams adapted a lot better, Pakistan didn't. Hence, the perceived decline.

 

[Buffet]

So Rameez was repsosible for putting useless pitches in 2004 where bowlers did not have to work and now recently he went all over for super roads. Both are bad for developing skills for bowlers and batsmen. With useless pitches for 15 years, it will be very hard for any batsman to develop a game to play proper cricketing shots. Batsman will just look to survive and play very defensively. I am not sure but that could be the reason for Pakistan to start producing super defensive batsmen.

That policy surely had an impact on batsmen and bowlers both. Now putting just flat roads is not a solution. Have pitches like Pakistan had during SA tour of Pakistan. Enough for spinners, pacers, batsmen ...

Rameez does not seems very smart. He should be kept away from PCB set up.

 

[Mamoon]

We are just not good enough and won’t be good enough either. Remember that not every sports team is meant to be successful.

You will always need some teams to stay in the middle or at the bottom of the pack and that is where Pakistan belongs.

A bang average cricket team and always has been except a few periods every now and then due to different circumstances.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Pakistan at home has now

Lost to Aus 1-0
Lost to Eng 3-0
Drew 0-0 NZ
Losing 1-0 to Bangladesh

To not win a single test in thar period and these all being home series is nothing short of disgraceful

 

[usman.sandhu]

Pakistan at home has now

Lost to Aus 1-0
Lost to Eng 3-0
Drew 0-0 NZ
Losing 1-0 to Bangladesh

To not win a single test in thar period and these all being home series is nothing short of disgraceful

What a pathetic test team, high time we stop over-hyping Babar, SSA and Rizwan... Pathetic players who have let us down in every format over the past 2 years...

 

[Dantheone]

Demise has happened.
All formats now.

 

[Josh]

I think a new ashes series can be started between Pakistan and Bangladesh, if Bangladesh are able to clinch this series. The Raakh series. Pakistan has to bring back the ashes from Bangladesh next time.

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

On the horizon? We sped past the demise last year. Just enjoy the implosions.

 

[Rana]

Destroying 1 man’s career was the agenda in 2019

In 2024, I hope it was worth it?

 

[SamNJ]

Pakistan cricket was in decline from 2000s. But I feel Imran Khan's decision to abolish departmental cricket further accelerated it. The players pool shrinked dramatically post that.
Don't see a single good batsman or spinner coming out from the new system.

 

[MMHS]

The biggest problem now I see in PAK cricket and that is something which can be resolved relatively easily is that - PAK has the worst cricket wickets across the globe!!!!!

I have written many times and explained many times that 03/09 was probably a blessing for PCT as it took PAK's home base to UAE - those wickets at least kept PAK relevant in Test circuit. Being outclassed by UAE, particularly Abu Dhabi wicket is probably the lowest point for an established cricket nations for almost a century now..... even associates have far better wickets than PAK.

Why PAK wickets are worst - because those are not batting wickets, neither bowling wickets... those are DEAD wickets. The difference with DEAD wicket and a batting belter is that, no matter how flat a wicket is, if it has to be good for batting, it has to have some pace & carry so that ball comes on to bat and at a decent height so that horizontal shots can be played. But, that gives bowlers a chance as well. For example, 1987 Oval Test, PAK posted 708, yes in 1980s and I actually could see part of that Test in Tv - Javed & Khan made hundreds, but then ENG were all out for 230+ on same wicket as it had carry and Khan used the bounce, AQadir used the drift .... Poms saved the Test for a Gower masterclass and PAK dropping like half a dozen, but still it was a good Test wicket, if not great. That Adelaide Test between AUS - IND produced like 1600 runs, Ponting & Dravid made double, VVS 170+, then Agarkar got a 6 for and IND won despite conceding 550+ in first 10 hours. Few years later, same teams, same venue Aussies scored over 800 in the game, Kohli got a pair of Hundreds and Lyon a 12for.... and we got a Result Test after almost 450 overs ....

On contrary, a DEAD wicket doesn't offer anything to any one - batsmen doesn't get value for their timing, can't hit on the rise, can't play horizontal bat shots unless its a long hop. can't use wrist unless it's slanting down the leg .... and for bowlers, it's even more barren - no seem movement, no bounce, dead slow and often it's full of dead roots means surface doesn't crumble even on 7th day, hardly any carry means edges often don't carry to slip (or slip can't hold on to it at a distance till where it carries), spinners dart rather than flighting it as the wickets are so, so slow that a flighted ball might beat the batsmen in air.... but then he'll have time to change his shot, it doesn't "kick" enough even on 4th innings to get the gloves or bat-pad - it's the perfect example of anti-cricket. PAK lost the Test not because the wicket turned into a mine field - I'm sure BD could have batted/blocked 100+ overs on 6th & 7th day to save the Test had it been a 7 day Test and PAK setting 575 as target .... it was that DEAD. PAK lost it because they had nothing to play for - BD consumed enough time to rule out a PAK win, got a decent lead as well - so they got PAK in a position to occupy time on a dull wicket for 4 sessions to earn a draw - most of them got out to playing shots, when dead bat on a DEAD wicket was required. Players with 1980s temperament... PAK could have finished second innings at 180-3 one hour after Tea on Day 5 with Shoaib Mo 85* of 319 balls!!!

The reason for such wicket isn't weather, climate, soil or lack of technical knowledge - weather/climate can be countered by artificial watering, covering or heating; soil can be replaced from another part of the country, technical knowledge can be learned, acquired or hired - but what can't be changed is denial mood. PCB & PAK cricket bosses are not ready to agree that it's not working, neither the curators accept that it's beyond them, and none of the Captains are willing for a change. For example - 2009, PAK's last home series before isolation, against SRL - Intekhab was Cricket operations Manager, Salim Jafar (Or Zakir Khan?) was in charge of wickets - and they promised "fast & furious" tracks to blow SRL away as PAK had Shoaib, Gul, Sohail Khan, Mo Sami .... Karachi produced scores like SRL 650 & 170/5 or so, PAK 765/5d.... then Lahore produced SRL 650/6D, PAK 115/0 ... thank God terrorists denied wasting 3 more days... sorry to say. Funniest part is, after the series when everything settled, Intekhab categorically said that both team lacked skilled fast bowlers, otherwise wicket was made for pacers... but they couldn't take more wickets on morning sessions, when conditions were helpful. And the Captain (Malik?) agreed that wickets were not that bad....!!!!!!

Lots of things need to be changed and it won't be easy - but improving wickets are not among the toughest one of those..... Atkinson did prepare that 2006 Karachi wicket, which saw PAK winning from 0/3, 25/6 .... and then posting 600+/6 in 2nd innings. I believe, it's among the lowest hanging fruits - at least you don't need talunt to prepare an under prepared track that ensures result in 4 days.

 

[AMSS]

It's absurd that a single sport country like PAK with 2nd largest talent base and a population over 250 millions would just fade away.

The economy thing is also a bogus excuse. Pakistan's per capita even today is 70 percent of India's so it's not like they are far behind. The difference is not as stark as between ENG/AUS and INDIA.

 

[uppercut]

It's absurd that a single sport country like PAK with 2nd largest talent base and a population over 250 millions would just fade away.

The economy thing is also a bogus excuse. Pakistan's per capita even today is 70 percent of India's so it's not like they are far behind. The difference is not as stark as between ENG/AUS and INDIA.

But un-controlled corruption and nepotism combined with too much power does funny things though.

 

[mominsaigol]

Destroying 1 man’s career was the agenda in 2019

In 2024, I hope it was worth it?

Bro do you seriously think Pakistan is the nation that ever bothers to appreciate its heroes?

Our people call Jinnah a hero but people forget how many Muslims at the time were overall rallying against him, and yet these same frauds would them live under his nation only to ruin it after his death.

This is a common trope amoung Pakistan since it's very inception.

people like sarfraz and fakhar are too humble, and these types of people are eaten by wolves, because their extremly easy to push around. Besides fakhar amd even before Misbah came along, How many of sarfraz's own men acted ungrateful?

Hafeez, Babar, and many others.

The only people who truly stayed loyal were fakhar who even now is loyal to his country,

Imad wasim who was loyal to sarfi (Probs because of the 2007 under 19 days, he respected sarfi since),

Amir (Surprisingly, was extremely suprised that amir who is usually disintrested in anything beyond tournaments actually shoved his ego for once)

Haris sohail (Underrated gem) and Azhar ali.

The rest like Imam, Babar, Rizwan, Misbah were always eyeing their own visions. Hum sab khalei, Pakistan bhar mei jai

 

[IMMY69]

Explain what about your record in the UAE?

You basically did that Pakistan heated its way along and started losing when laws became tighter.

This is extremely crass especially when we didn't lose a series in England post 2000 and until recently.

We also couldn't play at home for almost a decade.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

You basically did that Pakistan heated its way along and started losing when laws became tighter.

This is extremely crass especially when we didn't lose a series in England post 2000 and until recently.

We also couldn't play at home for almost a decade.

Your UAE record is hardly better than your record in PAK post 1995 .

W/L of 1.7 odd

Your W/L at home from Jan 1981 to Jan 1995 is 24 wins and 2 losses.

I'm speculating.

Either Pakistan declined ridiculously fast within a year while playing Tests at home or something fundamentally changed in 94/95.

The only change that happened was neutral umpires

 

[Hikaru]

Pakistan needs to shed it's ego and follow Bharat ,going out of their way to please BCCI. It may hurt the national pride, it may feel like humiliation, but humiliations are coming their way regardless.

No amount of talent or selection policies are going to dig them out of the hole, the key here is BCCI. Just toe the line and good things will happen.

 

[IMMY69]

Your UAE record is hardly better than your record in PAK post 1995 .

W/L of 1.7 odd

Your W/L at home from Jan 1981 to Jan 1995 is 24 wins and 2 losses.

I'm speculating.

Either Pakistan declined ridiculously fast within a year while playing Tests at home or something fundamentally changed in 94/95.

The only change that happened was neutral umpires

There is multiple reasons for why Pakistan has deteriorated to make it out like they cheated their way throughout the 80's, 90's and upto 2010 is extremely dishonest

 

[James]

"Pakistan is an unpredictable side. They can beat Australia one day. lose to Netherlands next day" -

Yeah, those days are done.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

There is multiple reasons for why Pakistan has deteriorated to make it out like they cheated their way throughout the 80's, 90's and upto 2010 is extremely dishonest

I never claimed they cheated . Nor did I imply that Pakistan are the only team that "cheated" .

The rules changed and Pakistan couldn't adapt to the newer eras of cricket is how I see it.

More talented/professional sides adapted and learned to win while Pakistan struggled to do so.

As simple as that. No need to be so unnecessarily defensive

 

[IMMY69]

I never claimed they cheated . Nor did I imply that Pakistan are the only team that "cheated" .

The rules changed and Pakistan couldn't adapt to the newer eras of cricket is how I see it.

More talented/professional sides adapted and learned to win while Pakistan struggled to do so.

As simple as that. No need to be so unnecessarily defensive

Arrh that what you said...
Right

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Arrh that what you said...
Right

Sounds like you're not convinced about the integrity of your own cricketers and want to indulge in projection. Be my guest.....

 

[James]

Pakistan at home has now

Lost to Aus 1-0
Lost to Eng 3-0
Drew 0-0 NZ
Losing 1-0 to Bangladesh

To not win a single test in thar period and these all being home series is nothing short of disgraceful

As I recall they could easily have lost the series to New Zealand if not for bad light, which would have bumped it up to 4/4 home losses without a single Test win.

An absolutely diabolical record that across the same period is probably worse than every other team including Ireland and Zimbabwe.

 

[uppercut]

So Rameez was repsosible for putting useless pitches in 2004 where bowlers did not have to work

This is not true ... Pakistan got flogged mercilessly by Sehwag/Dravid/Tendulkar/VVS and lost by an innings twice with a bowling attack that the current team would die for ... lol

 

[IMMY69]

Sounds like you're not convinced about the integrity of your own cricketers and want to indulge in projection. Be my guest.....

I'm cinvinced that 99pct of everything in Pakistan lacks integrity but I don't believe for a moment that the reasons for pakistans fall is due to changes in cricketing regulations

 

[Muhammad Saad]

It is good to see that Naqvi is trying to address this decline by introducing School Cricket , Club Cricket , College Cricket , University Cricket , U15,17 and U19 tournaments , hopefully if there is no nepotism and good coaches and PCB pays these cricketers well then there is no doubt we will start producing better talent in next 5 years. But the important question is will these tournaments be still around after couple of years?

 

[FearlessRoar]

Now, foreign legends have started talking about Pakistan too.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1827961224383914226

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Now, foreign legends have started talking about Pakistan too.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1827961224383914226

KP looking for PSL commentary contract . Unhappy that Nick Compton is commenting on this series

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

Thank you for contextualising the decline.

Along similar lines, I think not being part of the IPL has accelerated the decline, especially in white ball formats. WI's T20 resurgence in the 2010s and Afghanistan recent rise in the format were on the back of having a group of players being mainstays for their IPL teams. You could even make an argument for England's WC win being architected around IPL participation.

Psl is good league, ipl has nothing to do with pakistan decline

 

[Dantheone]

There are no skills in the players. All are average players on the day - including Babar. On top of that these players are lacking commitment and hard work to level up their game.

Bowling is below average when compared to rest of the world. I'm shocked that Pakistan hasn't produced a world class spinner since years. I think last good one was Yasir Shah but he too faded quickly.

Fielding hasn't improved a bit. They would still drop easy catches and forget about half-chances.

Sadly, have no idea how Pakistan cricket can bounce back from here.

 

[Amjid Javed]

As I recall they could easily have lost the series to New Zealand if not for bad light, which would have bumped it up to 4/4 home losses without a single Test win.

An absolutely diabolical record that across the same period is probably worse than every other team including Ireland and Zimbabwe.

I can understand Pakistan been poor outside of Asia in terms of test performances. The home performances in last 4 series have have not even been a basic level standard items of performance, output or effort. Making a player whose not even good enough to be in the side on merit pretty much sums up the state of Pakistan cricket. A lot of the players need to start looking at themselves and the humiliations the continue to undergo currently.

It's one of reasons I watch less and less cricket nowadays

It's minnow level standard from pakistan