Pakistan deserve more credit for their recent performances in England

[Arham_PakFan]

England have mostly dominated touring teams in the last decade.But Pakistan have drawn their last 2 series in England,and could have won the 2016 series had the batting not collapsed as it did in the 3rd match.

Pakistan do not get as much credit for performing well in England.

 

[bujhee kom]

No. Always a fluke.
They lost to SL. That the same SL swept Aus and SAF is irrelevant.

 

[Dingolfy]

No. Always a fluke.
They lost to SL. That the same SL swept Aus and SAF is irrelevant.

Aus and SA are not subcontinental teams grew up on playing spin.And also they lost to SL in SL, Not at their own damn home!

 

[bujhee kom]

Aus and SA are not subcontinental teams grew up on playing spin.And also they lost to SL in SL, Not at their own damn home!

The point of the satire was that Lanka can play the game and do so well.

 

[RainMan_]

Aus and SA are not subcontinental teams grew up on playing spin.And also they lost to SL in SL, Not at their own damn home!

SL dished out a square Turner to Australia and on a turning wicket Australia is weaker than even our horrible Bangladesh team. There's a reason the Lankan team that defeated Australia got defeated by Bangladesh in their own den.

Current sl team is a minnow. #fact

 

[mak36]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Best to never write-off or make predictions about the Pakistan cricket team</p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/764908071542001664?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 14, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Pete Rose]

No. They got enough credit

 

[happydavy]

I have been a vocal supporter of Pakistan's recent performances esp of Azhar Ali on this forum, I usually find Pakistanis only ridiculing it. Pakistan's performance over last 2 years including the CT is something their fans shud be mighty proud of.

Infact I think even the zimbo series was something to feel good about as Pakistan openers are getting used to the habit of scoring centuries, which they have struggled with in past few years.

 

[gazza619]

Pakistan A can give England's Test team a better challenge than India have

Pakistan has a brilliant bench strength. Looking at the lack of competition I have seen in England tests this summer, I genuinely believe that a Pakistan A squad would have given England a better competition. The Pakistan test squad that got picked recently for England tour was Sarfraz Ahmed, Azhar Ali, Imam-ul-Haq, Sami Aslam, Haris Sohail, Fakhar Zaman, Saad Ali, Asad Shafiq, Usman Salahuddin, Shadab Khan, Mohammad Amir, Mohammad Abbas , Hasan Ali, Rahat Ali, Faheem Ashraf.

I can easily pick a different eleven which will provide England a better challenge and the viewers will get better value:
1. Umar Amin
2. Shaan Masood
3. Hussain Talat
4. Fawad Alam
5. Babar Azam
6. Asif Ali
7. M Rizwan
8. Yasir Shah
9. Wahab Riaz
10. Shaheen Shah Afridi
11. Usman Shinwari

I know the batting above is a bit thin, but I reckon they will still put up a better score than the current world no. 1 test team. The bowling will easily get England under 250 no doubt about that.

 

[Kashmirilion]

Pakistan has a brilliant bench strength. Looking at the lack of competition I have seen in England tests this summer, I genuinely believe that a Pakistan A squad would have given England a better competition. The Pakistan test squad that got picked recently for England tour was Sarfraz Ahmed, Azhar Ali, Imam-ul-Haq, Sami Aslam, Haris Sohail, Fakhar Zaman, Saad Ali, Asad Shafiq, Usman Salahuddin, Shadab Khan, Mohammad Amir, Mohammad Abbas , Hasan Ali, Rahat Ali, Faheem Ashraf.

I can easily pick a different eleven which will provide England a better challenge and the viewers will get better value:
1. Umar Amin
2. Shaan Masood
3. Hussain Talat
4. Fawad Alam
5. Babar Azam
6. Asif Ali
7. M Rizwan
8. Yasir Shah
9. Wahab Riaz
10. Shaheen Shah Afridi
11. Usman Shinwari

I know the batting above is a bit thin, but I reckon they will still put up a better score than the current world no. 1 test team. The bowling will easily get England under 250 no doubt about that.

Now you are just milking it. This team would be bowled out for less than 50 on this lords pitch which India just played on

 

[gazza619]

I just realised Babar Azam was part of the original squad, sorry, I guess i can replace him with Sohaib Maqsood

 

[gazza619]

Now you are just milking it. This team would be bowled out for less than 50 on this lords pitch which India just played on

Nah dont think so. We have some gutsy fellas in there. I reckon this team would have put up 160. Then bowled England out for 200. They would have still lost the test but would have gone down fighting rather than putting up a toothless performance

 

[Rahul1]

I get it. England is the only country which matters.

 

[kuskash]

Pakistan C>>>>>Indian team. We are not blind fans.

 

[Pete Rose]

Totally legit

 

[Ilan Bluestone]

Why do our fans do this to themselves...

 

[m.shah]

Bhai thoda zyada ho gaya

 

[MeanAndGreen]

Why do both sets of fans have to jump onto extremes?

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Pakistan has a brilliant bench strength. Looking at the lack of competition I have seen in England tests this summer, I genuinely believe that a Pakistan A squad would have given England a better competition. The Pakistan test squad that got picked recently for England tour was Sarfraz Ahmed, Azhar Ali, Imam-ul-Haq, Sami Aslam, Haris Sohail, Fakhar Zaman, Saad Ali, Asad Shafiq, Usman Salahuddin, Shadab Khan, Mohammad Amir, Mohammad Abbas , Hasan Ali, Rahat Ali, Faheem Ashraf.

I can easily pick a different eleven which will provide England a better challenge and the viewers will get better value:
1. Umar Amin
2. Shaan Masood
3. Hussain Talat
4. Fawad Alam
5. Babar Azam
6. Asif Ali
7. M Rizwan
8. Yasir Shah
9. Wahab Riaz
10. Shaheen Shah Afridi
11. Usman Shinwari

I know the batting above is a bit thin, but I reckon they will still put up a better score than the current world no. 1 test team. The bowling will easily get England under 250 no doubt about that.

Jesus........ You know what! I sometimes do understand where [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is coming from Why make such a claim??!!

 

[iniqbal223]

Pakistan played well, and they deserve appreciation for their performance. On the other hand, for India, the problem is Shastri, who is doing nothing, just blabbering, picking wrong players who are not suited for the team.

Kumble was much better coach, but somehow Kohli did not like him.
I dont know Indians love Shastri a lot, he was mediocre player, commentator and now below average coach. As a commentator, if he can not give proper insights, just beat around the bush, don't know what he instructs the team in the dressing room.

Jesus........ You know what! I sometimes do understand where [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is coming from Why make such a claim??!!

 

[msb314]

Pakistan has a brilliant bench strength. Looking at the lack of competition I have seen in England tests this summer, I genuinely believe that a Pakistan A squad would have given England a better competition. The Pakistan test squad that got picked recently for England tour was Sarfraz Ahmed, Azhar Ali, Imam-ul-Haq, Sami Aslam, Haris Sohail, Fakhar Zaman, Saad Ali, Asad Shafiq, Usman Salahuddin, Shadab Khan, Mohammad Amir, Mohammad Abbas , Hasan Ali, Rahat Ali, Faheem Ashraf.

I can easily pick a different eleven which will provide England a better challenge and the viewers will get better value:
1. Umar Amin
2. Shaan Masood
3. Hussain Talat
4. Fawad Alam
5. Babar Azam
6. Asif Ali
7. M Rizwan
8. Yasir Shah
9. Wahab Riaz
10. Shaheen Shah Afridi
11. Usman Shinwari

I know the batting above is a bit thin, but I reckon they will still put up a better score than the current world no. 1 test team. The bowling will easily get England under 250 no doubt about that.

Sorry buddy but that line up will be blown away for 30 runs at most in such green / overcast conditions lol

 

[msb314]

Now you are just milking it. This team would be bowled out for less than 50 on this lords pitch which India just played on

Exactly what I was thinking haha!

 

[Minnowbasher]

Just because India is losing doesn't mean Pakistan deserve extra credit. Pakistan were good but couldve been better. The way that we lost the 2nd test made us look like minnows.

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

Bhai bhai bhai. Pakistan is truly the best team to tour England in recent times. Also English fans seems to be interested in Pakistan.

Drawing a series with two oldies in 2016 and, drawing a series with so inexperienced team in 2018 is no meant feat.

But, yeh thoda zyaada hogaya. How can Pakistan A team perform better than India?

It's the fault of Kohli that we are seeing such threads . Couldn't perform with such experienced team.

 

[Mamoon]

Yes they do. I think the ICC should base the rankings on how well you do in England, especially in London. After all, it is the home of cricket.

It shouldn’t matter if you haven’t even drawn a Test in Australia since the western Roman Empire fell, or if you regularly get pummeled in South Africa and were whitewashed in New Zealand and at home by Sri Lanka recently, and have been beaten twice by the West Indies.

The only thing that matters is performing at Lord’s and the Oval.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Yes they do. I think the ICC should base the rankings on how well you do in England, especially in London. After all, it is the home of cricket.

It shouldn’t matter if you haven’t even drawn a Test in Australia since the western Roman Empire fell, or if you regularly get pummeled in South Africa and were whitewashed in New Zealand and at home by Sri Lanka recently, and have been beaten twice by the West Indies.

The only thing that matters is performing at Lord’s and the Oval.

No one here is saying Pakistan is the best test team in the world,or that performances in other countries do not count.Stop projecting your insecurities here and stick to the topic.

 

[Mamoon]

No one here is saying Pakistan is the best test team in the world,or that performances in other countries do not count.Stop projecting your insecurities here and stick to the topic.

I offered a tangible solution to ensure that Pakistan get more credit for performing well in London (we have lost every non-London Test since 2001).

However, it appears that you didn’t appreciate my tangible solution. What do you propose should be done about it?

Should we talk about our success in London more? Should we deflect every loss by bringing up our success in London, or should we say what we shouldn’t be ranked 7th?

How do we give Pakistan more credit?

 

[Arham_PakFan]

I offered a tangible solution to ensure that Pakistan get more credit for performing well in London (we have lost every non-London Test since 2001).

However, it appears that you didn’t appreciate my tangible solution. What do you propose should be done about it?

Should we talk about our success in London more? Should we deflect every loss by bringing up our success in London, or should we say what we shouldn’t be ranked 7th?

How do we give Pakistan more credit?

We appreciate the fact and give Pakistan more credit,by not blabbing on about flukes,luck and bogey teams,and appreciating our test team for doing well in difficult conditions.You can criticise them for each loss,but you cannot appreciate them when they do well.That is not fair.

London is in England,and we have won 2 World Tournaments there ans reach a World Cup final.So we have always done well in England but this is about recent times.

 

[Mamoon]

We appreciate the fact and give Pakistan more credit,by not blabbing on about flukes,luck(bad luck when it comes to India),and appreciating our test team for doing well abroad.You can criticise them for each loss,but you cannot appreciate them when they do well.

Okay. To summarize this thread,

Problem: Pakistan doesn’t get enough credit for its success in London.

Solution: Pakistan should get more credit for its success in London.

 

[InziRules]

Pakistan has a brilliant bench strength. Looking at the lack of competition I have seen in England tests this summer, I genuinely believe that a Pakistan A squad would have given England a better competition. The Pakistan test squad that got picked recently for England tour was Sarfraz Ahmed, Azhar Ali, Imam-ul-Haq, Sami Aslam, Haris Sohail, Fakhar Zaman, Saad Ali, Asad Shafiq, Usman Salahuddin, Shadab Khan, Mohammad Amir, Mohammad Abbas , Hasan Ali, Rahat Ali, Faheem Ashraf.

I can easily pick a different eleven which will provide England a better challenge and the viewers will get better value:
1. Umar Amin
2. Shaan Masood
3. Hussain Talat
4. Fawad Alam
5. Babar Azam
6. Asif Ali
7. M Rizwan
8. Yasir Shah
9. Wahab Riaz
10. Shaheen Shah Afridi
11. Usman Shinwari

I know the batting above is a bit thin, but I reckon they will still put up a better score than the current world no. 1 test team. The bowling will easily get England under 250 no doubt about that.

Umar Amin and Masood )

ASIF ALI IN TESTS IN ENGLAND

RIZWAN

God, they won't make 50, and the reason they'll get close is that Yasir Shah and Babar are down the order

 

[Dr_Bassim]

I actually feel for India.

They should have won the first test but no one except Kohli showed up.

Now they will bat again in overcast conditions and get skittled out.

Pakistan arent a better test team than India but this tour will be a field day for Pakistani fans.

 

[Duckworth Lewis]

India and Pakistan are pretty much at the same level in non-subcontinental conditions. India is slightly ahead in subcontinental conditions. If an Ind pak series is played in UAE or India, it will be a closely fought series. People are reading too much into the losses against SL recently. It was the first series after the retirements of Misbah and Younis. The series loss can be equated with India's homes series loss against England after the retirements of key players. Indian fans like Mamoon are in some kind of delusion. They have hyped up India beyond what India is capable of. Also India's top ranking is surely because of playing most of its matches in sub continent or WI.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

I get it. England is the only country which matters.

India got steamrolled in Australia too. At least Pakistan wins regularly in England.

 

[shariqnoor]

Yes they do. I think the ICC should base the rankings on how well you do in England, especially in London. After all, it is the home of cricket.

It shouldn’t matter if you haven’t even drawn a Test in Australia since the western Roman Empire fell, or if you regularly get pummeled in South Africa and were whitewashed in New Zealand and at home by Sri Lanka recently, and have been beaten twice by the West Indies.

The only thing that matters is performing at Lord’s and the Oval.

Absolutely uncalled for.

First of all, the original topic was about England only and not for any other country. So completely unfair to bring about Pakistan's results elsewhere into the discussion on England.

Secondly, you have changed your goalposts. Before Pakistan's tour to England, you said they would be whitewashed because they can't play in early season conditions in England. Now that they drew the series, you have changed your argument that Pakistan can't perform in non-London tests. What next when they will beat England in a non-England test? That they beat England who didn't have Johnny Bairstow in their team, so fans shouldn't celebrate and that the team remains a minnow?

Lastly, since the start of 2010, Pakistan has been a better away (excluding Asia) team than India. Pakistan has won a test series in New Zealand, West Indies and drawn 2 Test Series in England. India has won only 2 series i.e. against West Indies. So despite India having a greater team and more talent, it is Pakistan who has won more. These are facts and not made up opinions on PakPassion by some poster.

Also, this series is far from over and India can come back to draw or even win it. But as of now, Pakistan has comfortably been the better side of the two based on results.

 

[shariqnoor]

India's Test ranking is also by the way made up entirely on their home record just like it was for Pakistan when they were number 1. If somebody were to create an away ranking record, I'm sure, Pakistan would be better placed than India in this decade. This does not mean that Pakistan has a better team than India. All it means that Pakistan did better on the field than on paper which is what ultimately counts.

 

[Rahul1]

India got steamrolled in Australia too. At least Pakistan wins regularly in England.

You know the meaning of steamrolled? Getting whitewashed in 4 consecutive series.

 

[Ab Fan]

As long as Pakistan keep winning series in New Zealand or draw in England, it doesn't really matter if they lose a match to WI or Sri Lanka.

It is acceptable when a team which just lost two of their greatest(one of them a great captain), loses a series to Sri Lanka because atleast they have fought back hard by winning a Champions Trophy and also drew a series in England.

In contrast, a certain no.1 ranked team whose most players are at peak of their career( Age 27-32) are still getting steamrolled in England after getting whacked by South Africa.

 

[barah_admi]

I agree, Pakistan's achievements in 2016 and 2018 have been exceptional and supercede for India and Australia have managed to do in recent times. Heck Aus have been steamrolled every time they have come here in the last couple Ashes and India are looking like a joke right now.

Huge credit to the bowlers in particular, who are in experienced and not at the prime of their careers just yet.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

You know the meaning of steamrolled? Getting whitewashed in 4 consecutive series.

When was the last time India won something in Aus? Drawn tests mean nothing in grand scheme.

 

[the Great Khan]

Completely agree with this. India has the luxury of playing at home. We don't. The UAE isn't home. Some have tried to completely annihilate our cricket but miserably failed. They have bucket loads of resources now and yet they give us 107 all out. It shows how soft these new breed are now..

The superstardom at home and the mukhan they get ftom the white boards has gone to their heads..this lineup might still pull it out of the bag but atm they look bereft.

Pakistan is a far more resilient team a far more resilient nation and our current team have way more heart..adversity breeds steel. India need to find that otherwise they'll simply renew their pre ganguly impression of being mentally weak..

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Putting Pakistan's victories in England to perspective

Pakistan won two tests in 2015 and hammered England in the worst part of the year to tour.

Should have won 3-1 in 2015.

For all the accolades bestowed upon Indian bollacticos, Pakistan have outshine them in the place where greatness is measured.
Thoughts?

 

[mkyawar]

Test series not over. Lets talk after the series is finished. England is bad, India is just badder. If India escapes with a draw then this series might have a twist but if 2-0 then India will lose

 

[ads101]

In a lot of ways India are unlucky. Test one they narrowly lost. 2nd test rainy, stop and start, always going to be bad for the away team, hard to get settled.

Regardless of whether India will lose, and by this point pretty sure they will lose the test series now, I'm still not sure we do deserve more credit. Last time Pakistan won in England in a test series was 1996. That's more than 20 years ago. Sri Lanka on the other hand have won not too long ago. India won in 2007, just over 10 years ago.

I'd take an actual won series over a couple of draws. Worst thing is that in 2016 I felt we were the better team and should have won, one of the tests we lost was an easy draw and could have been batted out given conditions were not too tough and we had an over 100 lead from the first innings. Was a chance gone begging.

 

[MenInG]

Completely agree with this. India has the luxury of playing at home. We don't. The UAE isn't home. Some have tried to completely annihilate our cricket but miserably failed. They have bucket loads of resources now and yet they give us 107 all out. It shows how soft these new breed are now..

The superstardom at home and the mukhan they get ftom the white boards has gone to their heads..this lineup might still pull it out of the bag but atm they look bereft.

Pakistan is a far more resilient team a far more resilient nation and our current team have way more heart..adversity breeds steel. India need to find that otherwise they'll simply renew their pre ganguly impression of being mentally weak..

And then we have apologists for Indian cricket (which possibly embarrass Indian fans) come here and tell us that this was a nothing achievement.

 

[Pete Rose]

I actually feel for India.

They should have won the first test but no one except Kohli showed up.

Now they will bat again in overcast conditions and get skittled out.

Pakistan arent a better test team than India but this tour will be a field day for Pakistani fans.

I don’t think you can ask for better trolling rights. Having said that, the ECB were really greedy. No reason why this summer couldn’t have been a three test series + four test series.

 

[UP]

Matches in London don’t count.

 

[topspin]

Pakistan have done reasonably well in England, but would like to see them win outside Lords and Oval for the first time since 2001.

Let's also not forget the conditions India have got here are far tougher for batting than we faced in 2016. In a long series you have to feel sorry for the batting sides having to face this because most touring teams would get trounced like like we saw also with Australia at Trent Bridge when Broad took an 8fer few years back.

 

[the Great Khan]

Here we go with the same only in London claptrap...Pakistan have only ever lost two series in England since 1987. England have only won once in an away series in Pakistan since 1987. Pakistan have no home tests yet our team remains dangerous.

India have every advantage. A large population cricket mad. Money galore. Facilities hype stardom home test matches. Favourable media coverage, influence at the ICC. Yet and yet little Pakistan with its lack of funds, lack of power, no home tests, tough media coverage, lack of test matches overall, out performs them away. It's time some people started giving more credit to Pakistan . No nation has done what we have..none..

This India side should touch kohlis feet and apologise for this disgrace..Rahul should be kicked out of this team and so should vijay.

 

[Savak]

Pakistan have done reasonably well in England, but would like to see them win outside Lords and Oval for the first time since 2001.

Let's also not forget the conditions India have got here are far tougher for batting than we faced in 2016. In a long series you have to feel sorry for the batting sides having to face this because most touring teams would get trounced like like we saw also with Australia at Trent Bridge when Broad took an 8fer few years back.

The conditions that India faced are exactly the same conditions we got in 2018.

India is perceived to have a superior batting line up and batsmen with more talent than Pakistan but they have been exposed in this series.

 

[Finisher]

Okay. To summarize this thread,

Problem: Pakistan doesn’t get enough credit for its success in London.

Solution: Pakistan should get more credit for its success in London.

Whats stopping India winning in London?

 

[Mamoon]

Whats stopping India winning in London?

I don't know, but sports is not alien to strange phenomena. Especially cricket.

It is hard to explain why every ATG Pakistani player has crapped his pants against India in World Cups, or why Pakistan cannot even draw a Test in Australia to save its life. Even the Law of Averages don't seem to work in our favor, or how even Bangladesh drew a Test series vs Sri Lanka in 2017 but Pakistan were thrashed.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Despite what some posters may state, Pakistan gets an incredibly good amount of credit in the English cricketing press.

England seem enthralled by the way Pakistanis play cricket, probably largely due to the great players who graced county cricket for many years and the flair with which Pakistan genuinely play.

I had a chat with an older English county professional through a mutual acquaintance and I enquired about the love the English game seems to have for Pakistan.

He gave a curious example but quite an interesting one in the way Shadab Khan and Mason Crane have been treated. Crane has had the best coaches in the world thrown at him and has been treated with kid gloves. Shadab played a couple of T20s and was thrown into the test team. That type of reversal of cricketing convention is common now but in the past it was uniquely Pakistan and it really captured the imagination of England and it's fans.

Just read the Guardian, Independent and the Times to see how the English feel about the side and pay no heed to the ramblings of pro Indians on this site.

 

[Third Man]

Pakistan has a brilliant bench strength. Looking at the lack of competition I have seen in England tests this summer, I genuinely believe that a Pakistan A squad would have given England a better competition. The Pakistan test squad that got picked recently for England tour was Sarfraz Ahmed, Azhar Ali, Imam-ul-Haq, Sami Aslam, Haris Sohail, Fakhar Zaman, Saad Ali, Asad Shafiq, Usman Salahuddin, Shadab Khan, Mohammad Amir, Mohammad Abbas , Hasan Ali, Rahat Ali, Faheem Ashraf.

I can easily pick a different eleven which will provide England a better challenge and the viewers will get better value:
1. Umar Amin
2. Shaan Masood
3. Hussain Talat
4. Fawad Alam
5. Babar Azam
6. Asif Ali
7. M Rizwan
8. Yasir Shah
9. Wahab Riaz
10. Shaheen Shah Afridi
11. Usman Shinwari

I know the batting above is a bit thin, but I reckon they will still put up a better score than the current world no. 1 test team. The bowling will easily get England under 250 no doubt about that.

After seeing posts like these, I think I understand [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] a lot better now.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Pakistan is getting a lot of credit for that win at Lord’s right now. Pretty much everyone on social media and on TV is ripping apart India, while comparing their awful performance to Pakistan’s earlier in the season in more difficult conditions

 

[Mamoon]

Indian fans: India is ranked number 1 and Pakistan is ranked number 7.

Pakistani fans: But we have done better than India in England.

Indian fans: Pakistan were whitewashed at home by Sri Lanka and also lost a Test at home to the West Indies and away to Zimbabwe. They were also whitewashed on their last tour of New Zealand.

Pakistani fans: But we have done better than India in England.

Indian fans: India have done better than Pakistan in Australia and South Africa.

Pakistani fans: But we have done better . . . . . . .

It is getting comical now.

 

[90MPH]

I don't know, but sports is not alien to strange phenomena. Especially cricket.

It is hard to explain why every ATG Pakistani player has crapped his pants against India in World Cups, or why Pakistan cannot even draw a Test in Australia to save its life. Even the Law of Averages don't seem to work in our favor, or how even Bangladesh drew a Test series vs Sri Lanka in 2017 but Pakistan were thrashed.

Don’t worry bro, India will get revenge when the English on their return tour will be served with those spicy dust bowls.

In the meantime just forget about this nightmare tour - pretend it didn’t happen or watch some past glory matches.

 

[90MPH]

Indian fans: India is ranked number 1 and Pakistan is ranked number 7.

Pakistani fans: But we have done better than India in England.

Indian fans: Pakistan were whitewashed at home by Sri Lanka and also lost a Test at home to the West Indies and away to Zimbabwe. They were also whitewashed on their last tour of New Zealand.

Pakistani fans: But we have done better than India in England.

Indian fans: India have done better than Pakistan in Australia and South Africa.

Pakistani fans: But we have done better . . . . . . .

It is getting comical now.

Exactly bro. Don’t forget the champions trophy final these pathetic Pak fans keep mentioning.

At least when India lose they lose with morals and courage (today loss doesn’t count because of strange weather and really bad luck).

I think they are jealous of the IPL and the fact that BCCI makes billions.

 

[Abdullah]

People didn't believe me when I said that the Azhar and Harris partnership on first evening at lords was quite fantastic batting. Batting was not easy out there then any more than it was today

 

[Finisher]

I don't know, but sports is not alien to strange phenomena. Especially cricket.

It is hard to explain why every ATG Pakistani player has crapped his pants against India in World Cups, or why Pakistan cannot even draw a Test in Australia to save its life. Even the Law of Averages don't seem to work in our favor, or how even Bangladesh drew a Test series vs Sri Lanka in 2017 but Pakistan were thrashed.

You say india is on the way to dominate cricket, surely they could atleast win 1 test in London.
India's win in SA was a fluke
This thread is about Pakistan's performance in England getting the deserved credit.

 

[PakHammer]

And I think we could have won the series this year if Safraz did not have a brain fade & elected to bat first at Headingley. England's batting was shaky after the Lord's win and we elected to bat first in cloudy conditions.

 

[pakistani pride]

Indian fans: India is ranked number 1 and Pakistan is ranked number 7.

Pakistani fans: But we have done better than India in England.

Indian fans: Pakistan were whitewashed at home by Sri Lanka and also lost a Test at home to the West Indies and away to Zimbabwe. They were also whitewashed on their last tour of New Zealand.

Pakistani fans: But we have done better than India in England.

Indian fans: India have done better than Pakistan in Australia and South Africa.

Pakistani fans: But we have done better . . . . . . .

It is getting comical now.

The only comical thing are your posts. How many away tests has INDIA during the golden era won? What are their away stats last 5 to 7 years?

Even after such a EPIC PHAINTA you look for excuses. Kuch to sharam karo even if you dont have it.

 

[Pete Rose]

The only thing I would say is that Pakistan and the English public deserved a three match series vs Pakistan and 4 match series against India

 

[ChuckLee]

Jesus........ You know what! I sometimes do understand where [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is coming from Why make such a claim??!!

I know right, maybe [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is right after all.

 

[Abid Z]

The only comical thing are your posts. How many away tests has INDIA during the golden era won? What are their away stats last 5 to 7 years?

Even after such a EPIC PHAINTA you look for excuses. Kuch to sharam karo even if you dont have it.

Honestly I think your barking up the wrong tree. It’s obvious to all except the most deluded Pakistani fan that Pakistan are a ridiculously mediocre test team at the moment. Yes there have been some decent performances here and there but by and large our cricket is stuck in first gear since misbah and younis left and even with them there were some abject performances not just down-under.

The current Indian team may or may not bounce back but it’s plain to see that England are playing their best with their no1 choice of players but some of Indian key players are missing. The fact that these conditions would have challenged and did challenge some of the best teams in the world over the latter half of the century (who team could possibly survive this intense barrage of swing and seam in wet and cloudy Lords?) doesn’t mean that on a sunny lords day with a lone spinner in 2016 or handy seamer abbass in 2018 we caught England napping and plucked out a win from nowhere.

Yes Pakistani fans a delusional bunch as we win when least expected and lose more often than not but let’s respect these conditions and not rub salt in Indian wounds for the sake of making ourselves feel better.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Pakistan has a brilliant bench strength. Looking at the lack of competition I have seen in England tests this summer, I genuinely believe that a Pakistan A squad would have given England a better competition. The Pakistan test squad that got picked recently for England tour was Sarfraz Ahmed, Azhar Ali, Imam-ul-Haq, Sami Aslam, Haris Sohail, Fakhar Zaman, Saad Ali, Asad Shafiq, Usman Salahuddin, Shadab Khan, Mohammad Amir, Mohammad Abbas , Hasan Ali, Rahat Ali, Faheem Ashraf.

I can easily pick a different eleven which will provide England a better challenge and the viewers will get better value:
1. Umar Amin
2. Shaan Masood
3. Hussain Talat
4. Fawad Alam
5. Babar Azam
6. Asif Ali
7. M Rizwan
8. Yasir Shah
9. Wahab Riaz
10. Shaheen Shah Afridi
11. Usman Shinwari

I know the batting above is a bit thin, but I reckon they will still put up a better score than the current world no. 1 test team. The bowling will easily get England under 250 no doubt about that.

Pak second choice batting side of

Imran Butt
Sami Aslam
Saad Ali
Usman Salauddin
Fakhar
hussain Talat

are better players of swing seam than Indian first choice top six.

I even said before Pak Eng series that Pak young team overall are better players of swing and seam bowling than India and was ridiculed here by both Pakistanis and Indians which was a bit disappointing as some good posters fell pray to propaganda and didn't have confidence in their own players.

Pak scored 337 in testing 1st innings conditions at Lords while India in 2 innings combined couldn't score 250.. Thori si ball move hui aur Indian batting phus.

 

[Savak]

Some posters like to belittle and mock Faheem Ashraf in comparison to Pandy but Faheem Ashraf played a very crucial role in the first test against Scotland and England and even held his own with the ball where as Pandya has done nothing meaningful in the whole series.

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

I will say this again - Azhar and Asad are amongst the best test batsmen in the world because of their temperament. Their ability to just tuk tuk till their hearts content means that they are going to dig into the innings and put a price on their wicket. None of the indian batsmen have been able to do that till now. Pujara is from a similar breed of batsmen, but luck hasn't been on his side recently.

 

[the Great Khan]

I will say this again - Azhar and Asad are amongst the best test batsmen in the world because of their temperament. Their ability to just tuk tuk till their hearts content means that they are going to dig into the innings and put a price on their wicket. None of the indian batsmen have been able to do that till now. Pujara is from a similar breed of batsmen, but luck hasn't been on his side recently.

exactly. Just imagine the mindset and steel these two have had to develop. Azhar comes in as a complete nobody into the cauldron of an england series where anderson is swining it around corners. One of the most senior batsmen who can provide him advice is Malik (not much advice there then). He plays against one of the worlds best teams in Australia and gives a good account of himself by helping us win the second test match. He then faces anderson and co and manages to stick around without scoring much until the Oval where he scores a great 92 and plays with Moyo who is shipped in as an emergency measure.

then on his next tour to England hits some big runs including a daddy century at edgbaston and significant scores elsewhere. All in tough conditions when you compare where these guys have been playing.

They have zero home cricket so have learnt to get on with it. The pitches are not always in their control. The venues aren't, the countries they play in aren't. They live out of Hotel rooms away from their families for months on end. Pilloried in the world media for coming from a terrorist country, while fearful a terrorist will kill their family while they are away playing cricket. Yet they win trophies, series, plaudits. They make records, fight till the end, sometimes collapse, sometimes surprise us.

And we still have individuals on here who claim wins are flukes. that they are rubbish.

The India team wouldnt last a month if they had to play through what our team has. Gavasker and co would have. Becasue they were from an era where they developed mental steel like azhar and co. Even Sachin did. The amount of losses he had to endure, the humiliations while he would fight away at one end till the end. And against some of the greatest bowlers of all time.

This indian team is spoilt. What they need is a disciplinarian who can come in and whip them into shape. I could see it in Rahuls eyes. He was shot. Where is the fight? Its at left at an IPL party somewhere.

When you have to fight for your very cricketing existence, you develope a steel that nobody can take from you. Yes you will collapse at times, you will suffer the odd breakdown becasue who wouldnt. But you fight.

If I were an Indian fan I would demand they sack the coach and the captain and look at the strategy for the test side. Perhaps ignore IPL players altogether and get some Ranji players in who fight everyday for their bread!! Who have pride in their flag and shirt..only then will this team progress..

 

[mkyawar]

Exactly bro. Don’t forget the champions trophy final these pathetic Pak fans keep mentioning.

At least when India lose they lose with morals and courage (today loss doesn’t count because of strange weather and really bad luck).

I think they are jealous of the IPL and the fact that BCCI makes billions.

Indians lose with moral or courage? The reason why pak fans keep mentioning CT final cos your so called world class players like gavaskar, harbhajan, ganguly etc were acting as if India has already won the final. What happened, they got thrashed and all these legends had to shut up.

When India won the first t20, KL Rahul was termed the next Viv Richards. When India won the first ODI thanks to Kuldeeps six wickets, some analysts said that he might take 40 wickets in a 5 test series.
Pakistan is not jealous of the IPL, in fact it is good they do not play that mickey mouse league and still number perform good in t20.

The sheer arrogance of Indian public + former players + analysts is so much that they end up looking like fools. Stupid Sachin saying that Hardik brings better balance than Kapil Dev? No wonder he turned out be a useless captain.

 

[Rudi hater]

Umar Amin and Masood )

ASIF ALI IN TESTS IN ENGLAND

RIZWAN

God, they won't make 50, and the reason they'll get close is that Yasir Shah and Babar are down the order

Same London where India gets thrashed. enough said.

 

[Rudi hater]

Yes they do. I think the ICC should base the rankings on how well you do in England, especially in London. After all, it is the home of cricket.

It shouldn’t matter if you haven’t even drawn a Test in Australia since the western Roman Empire fell, or if you regularly get pummeled in South Africa and were whitewashed in New Zealand and at home by Sri Lanka recently, and have been beaten twice by the West Indies.

The only thing that matters is performing at Lord’s and the Oval.

Cheer up I know India still have three more tests to have a crack, they faild in Birmingham, they failed in London. Lets see what happens next? they should bounce back

 

[the Great Khan]

Indians lose with moral or courage? The reason why pak fans keep mentioning CT final cos your so called world class players like gavaskar, harbhajan, ganguly etc were acting as if India has already won the final. What happened, they got thrashed and all these legends had to shut up.

When India won the first t20, KL Rahul was termed the next Viv Richards. When India won the first ODI thanks to Kuldeeps six wickets, some analysts said that he might take 40 wickets in a 5 test series.
Pakistan is not jealous of the IPL, in fact it is good they do not play that mickey mouse league and still number perform good in t20.

The sheer arrogance of Indian public + former players + analysts is so much that they end up looking like fools. Stupid Sachin saying that Hardik brings better balance than Kapil Dev? No wonder he turned out be a useless captain.

he was being saracstic..chill

 

[classic]

I actually feel for India.

They should have won the first test but no one except Kohli showed up.

Now they will bat again in overcast conditions and get skittled out.

Pakistan arent a better test team than India but this tour will be a field day for Pakistani fans.

This.... I for one agree India has had the shorter straw but boy am I enjoying them getting a right drubbing in England . once again they are proving the great batsmen lack patience and shot selection. Their Media is also to blame . Demaag karab kerdiya hai bar bar team India ko chara chara ke inho ne. Now they will be humble . I still feel India will win the series though

 

[Hasan123]

It would have been interesting to see how Pakistan would have done in a 3 plus test series.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

It would have been interesting to see how Pakistan would have done in a 3 plus test series.

I think they would do really well. Pakistan has been England's bogey team for a long time now. England has only one two series against Pak in England. Pakistan has won two and drawn three series. Unlike India, most Pakistani batsmen can handle swing bowling decently.

 

[IAJ]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Best to never write-off or make predictions about the Pakistan cricket team</p>— Saj Sadiq [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION]_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/764908071542001664?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 14, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Lol, what a catch [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] bhai

 

[Pete Rose]

exactly. Just imagine the mindset and steel these two have had to develop. Azhar comes in as a complete nobody into the cauldron of an england series where anderson is swining it around corners. One of the most senior batsmen who can provide him advice is Malik (not much advice there then). He plays against one of the worlds best teams in Australia and gives a good account of himself by helping us win the second test match. He then faces anderson and co and manages to stick around without scoring much until the Oval where he scores a great 92 and plays with Moyo who is shipped in as an emergency measure.

then on his next tour to England hits some big runs including a daddy century at edgbaston and significant scores elsewhere. All in tough conditions when you compare where these guys have been playing.

They have zero home cricket so have learnt to get on with it. The pitches are not always in their control. The venues aren't, the countries they play in aren't. They live out of Hotel rooms away from their families for months on end. Pilloried in the world media for coming from a terrorist country, while fearful a terrorist will kill their family while they are away playing cricket. Yet they win trophies, series, plaudits. They make records, fight till the end, sometimes collapse, sometimes surprise us.

And we still have individuals on here who claim wins are flukes. that they are rubbish.

The India team wouldnt last a month if they had to play through what our team has. Gavasker and co would have. Becasue they were from an era where they developed mental steel like azhar and co. Even Sachin did. The amount of losses he had to endure, the humiliations while he would fight away at one end till the end. And against some of the greatest bowlers of all time.

This indian team is spoilt. What they need is a disciplinarian who can come in and whip them into shape. I could see it in Rahuls eyes. He was shot. Where is the fight? Its at left at an IPL party somewhere.

When you have to fight for your very cricketing existence, you develope a steel that nobody can take from you. Yes you will collapse at times, you will suffer the odd breakdown becasue who wouldnt. But you fight.

If I were an Indian fan I would demand they sack the coach and the captain and look at the strategy for the test side. Perhaps ignore IPL players altogether and get some Ranji players in who fight everyday for their bread!! Who have pride in their flag and shirt..only then will this team progress..

Asad Shafiq basically gave up his legisde game in 2016 and 2018 in England so that he could minimize his lbw and bowled. Same with azhar. Azhar infact doesn’t drive too square on either side in the beggining of his innings. It’s all fine and well to talk about their mental fortitude, but these guys have made technical adjustments to their games. If you listen to kohlis presser he keeps harping about how it’s really all mental. Maybe for him it is. But for his lesser contemporaries, putting their technical shortcomings as mental only is basically giving them and the coaching staff an easy ride.

 

[OmarKhan99]

Indian fans: India is ranked number 1 and Pakistan is ranked number 7.

Pakistani fans: But we have done better than India in England.

Indian fans: Pakistan were whitewashed at home by Sri Lanka and also lost a Test at home to the West Indies and away to Zimbabwe. They were also whitewashed on their last tour of New Zealand.

Pakistani fans: But we have done better than India in England.

Indian fans: India have done better than Pakistan in Australia and South Africa.

Pakistani fans: But we have done better . . . . . . .

It is getting comical now.

The loss to Zimbabwe you keep on stating was quite some time ago. Since then, there has been an influx of quite a few young players and this current line-up is effectively entirely different to the one in 2013-14. Hence, the logic behind applying that loss as a criterion of judgement for this team is quite faulty.

In regard to the loss to Sri Lanka, it isn't as bad as it has been made out to be. The important thing is to remember and consider what were the circumstances leading up to the series. We were just beginning our transitioning phase. The Sri Lankan series was the first series post the departure of two of our major batting stalwarts that consistently carried the burden of Pakistani batting for many years. One of them being the captain who was instrumental in the revival of Pakistan Cricket from depths of darkness we had been indulged in. The batting feeling this loss and vacancy was only natural and hence the team taking a hit or two was to be expected. Plus, we had a newly appointed Captain, in the form of Sarfraz, who was on his first stint as Test captain and since his style of play is in vast contrast to Misbah's, rookie mistakes were to be expected. Not only were his players to get used to Sarfraz's style of captaincy and his tactics but also the Coaching staff were yet to fully adapt. This obviously resulted in some bad decisions which the management has since recognised.

The fact of the matter is, we must stop dwelling in the past and pull up references to matches or series that Pakistan played in with a completely different set of players or matches in a very different format (i.e. the NZ ODI series). These are frankly quite meaningless and just continue to highlight the desperation and frustration.

The purpose of the thread, from what I see, isn't about who is the superior test team, but rather more about the comparison of particular performances of a team consisting of quite a few players who haven't even played a handful of tests (and even some who debuted on the tour itself) and a team that has been "settled" long enough to make the #1 Test rankings consistently in recent times. Seeing how the very well reputed Indian Batting line up and the team has fared until now and comparing that to how Pakistan played just 3 months prior in virtually the same conditions is an indication that Pakistan has done something greater than what was initially perceived. Don't think this is about pulling India down, but more about the realization of what Pakistan has accomplished.

Also, a piece of advice I would like to give to you as a brother, don't mistake realism with pessimism.

 

[the Great Khan]

Asad Shafiq basically gave up his legisde game in 2016 and 2018 in England so that he could minimize his lbw and bowled. Same with azhar. Azhar infact doesn’t drive too square on either side in the beggining of his innings. It’s all fine and well to talk about their mental fortitude, but these guys have made technical adjustments to their games. If you listen to kohlis presser he keeps harping about how it’s really all mental. Maybe for him it is. But for his lesser contemporaries, putting their technical shortcomings as mental only is basically giving them and the coaching staff an easy ride.

Mental toughness and working hard. Something the Indians should learn quickly.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Indian fans: India is ranked number 1 and Pakistan is ranked number 7.

Pakistani fans: But we have done better than India in England.

Indian fans: Pakistan were whitewashed at home by Sri Lanka and also lost a Test at home to the West Indies and away to Zimbabwe. They were also whitewashed on their last tour of New Zealand.

Pakistani fans: But we have done better than India in England.

Indian fans: India have done better than Pakistan in Australia and South Africa.

Pakistani fans: But we have done better . . . . . . .

It is getting comical now.

Only thing comical at this point is how you insist on denying and discounting everyone of Pakistan's achievements