Pakistan faces water crisis as India builds dams on shared rivers

[Devadwal]

@Devadwal, perhaps you are better off hiding in North Sentinel Island in case a war breaks out.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Lol India may not ending up harming itself

https://twitter.com/x/status/1916763202265948438

 

[rpant_gabba]

There is a good long term play here. Irregular water release will screw up Pak irrigation system for the long run. Screw up their maintenance schedule for the canals. wipe out the top soil, increase the salinity near the ocean waters, which will screw up fisheries. Bet the communities living the ocean and whose lives depend on fisheries will love that. Combine that with an information campaign of how Pak Punjab is exploiting the rest of Pak. Sit back and enjoy the show.

Indian posters, want to get your take on this.

guys like @Rajdeep @Red-Indian @Devadwal might not have the stomach for it.

the indus river can be used a vector a variety of applications.

@RexRex

@AamchiMumbaikar @nish_mate @Nikhil_cric @Champ_Pal @deltexas @Hitman @Varun

 

[Theanonymousone]

Indian posters, want to get your take on this.

guys like @Rajdeep @Red-Indian @Devadwal might not have the stomach for it.

the indus river can be used a vector a variety of applications.

@RexRex

@AamchiMumbaikar @nish_mate @Nikhil_cric @Champ_Pal @deltexas @Hitman @Varun

My 2 cents

I would view it in 4 ways - environmental sense, sovereignty, economic sense, benefits vs harmful impact

There are many theories going on in Twitter but after all its peoples money. So, it should make economic sense first and then measure the benefits vs harmful impact.

People here from Pakistan celebrated when China announced a dam on Brahmaputra. Sovereignty will have a weight at the end but its not at the cost of the innocent livelihood.

I hope we can build the infrastructure to divert some water to benefit Indians without harming others. This would even make Pakistan to get on toes and build infrastructure to store water.

Just because Pakistan is complacent in securing water storage, we shouldn't be punished with less share of water.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Lol India may not ending up harming itself

https://twitter.com/x/status/1916763202265948438

" I believe the water cant be diverted, it has to flow into Pakistan"
agar aisa hota toh Pakistan ro kyun raha hai bhai
Chill maaro, aish karo! It seems this treaty had no purpose at all
Now no more crying aout India using water as a weapon against Pakistan, The expert view has been shared !

 

[rpant_gabba]

My 2 cents

I would view it in 4 ways - environmental sense, sovereignty, economic sense, benefits vs harmful impact

There are many theories going on in Twitter but after all its peoples money. So, it should make economic sense first and then measure the benefits vs harmful impact.

People here from Pakistan celebrated when China announced a dam on Brahmaputra. Sovereignty will have a weight at the end but its not at the cost of the innocent livelihood.

I hope we can build the infrastructure to divert some water to benefit Indians without harming others. This would even make Pakistan to get on toes and build infrastructure to store water.

Just because Pakistan is complacent in securing water storage, we shouldn't be punished with less share of water.

I get the sense that you didn't grasp what I was proposing.

I'm not talking about steps for water use by India.

I'm talking about payback with indus rivers as the vector.

 

[RexRex]

Indian posters, want to get your take on this.

guys like @Rajdeep @Red-Indian @Devadwal might not have the stomach for it.

the indus river can be used a vector a variety of applications.

@RexRex

@AamchiMumbaikar @nish_mate @Nikhil_cric @Champ_Pal @deltexas @Hitman @Varun

I endorse this move; start building those dams and reservoirs or whatever needs to be built to inflict damage on Pak's water economy.

In fact, it shocks me that past Indian governments hadn't even bothered using water as leverage or even mentioned it. The infrastructure should have already been in place. They should have done something soon after the very first war in 1965. Now .. three wars and numerous terror attacks later, finally it's being talked about... better late than never.

But two concerns would be -

> China. They have all this CPEC stuff in Pakistan going on and they wouldn't want their investments to be affected. So they won't be pleased.
> Effectiveness. Would the Pak establishment be affected ? This clip kinda sums it up -

 

[rpant_gabba]

I endorse this move; start building those dams and reservoirs or whatever needs to be built to inflict damage on Pak's water economy.

In fact, it shocks me that past Indian governments hadn't even bothered using water as leverage or even mentioned it. The infrastructure should have already been in place. They should have done something soon after the very first war in 1965. Now .. three wars and numerous terror attacks later, finally it's being talked about... better late than never.

But two concerns would be -

> China. They have all this CPEC stuff in Pakistan going on and they wouldn't want their investments to be affected. So they won't be pleased.
> Effectiveness. Would the Pak establishment be affected ? This clip kinda sums it up -

I'm not talking about just building dams.

Water is simply a vehicle for a variety of options

 

[RexRex]

I'm not talking about just building dams.

Water is simply a vehicle for a variety of options

What are the variety of options, list em.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

What are the variety of options, list em.

He will get arrested if he lists them again

 

[RexRex]

He will get arrested if he lists them again

I'm guessing he was joking when then he typed out his long 'manifesto' earlier. Or maybe not.

 

[Romali_rotti]

But two concerns would be -

> China. They have all this CPEC stuff in Pakistan going on and they wouldn't want their investments to be affected. So they won't be pleased.

Chinese factor is not as big as ppl are making it out to be, If China builds the Dam on the Bharmaputra and decides to turn off the tap it will affect, Bangladesh first, they will be totally screwed, then India and lastly Pakistan.

Chinese and Indians have a 120 billion a year trade relationship whilst CPEC is nowhere close and facing disaster after disaster with hostile Balooch, Americans using thier assets to disrupt the Chinese supply routes in the area using terrorists etc.

China will do other annoyances such as border skirmishes etc to keep the Indians pre occupied but Pakistan as a whole will be in major trouble if India completes the DAM..

 

[Red-Indian]

Indian posters, want to get your take on this.

guys like @Rajdeep @Red-Indian @Devadwal might not have the stomach for it.

the indus river can be used a vector a variety of applications.

@RexRex

@AamchiMumbaikar @nish_mate @Nikhil_cric @Champ_Pal @deltexas @Hitman @Varun

This is going to be a longish post.

You're right that I (among others) don't have the stomach for what you're proposing. I actually live in India and have zero interest in turning my country into a sadistic, rogue State and living under threat of nuclear warfare.

On the other hand, I'm not against withdrawing from the Indus Water Treaty (IWT). Not out of any desire to kill millions of Pakistanis but because we do need more water than the 20% or so we were allocated under it. Unlike us, they're not fully utilising their share of the water anyway and with a meagre couple of billion dollars of investment over 3-4 years, we can improve water availability in some northern states. It won't give us some fantasized ability to shut off Pakistan's water supply and they will barely notice the water we're taking except during the dry season. I only think of these potential water shortages in Pakistan as a side-effect not the reason for what we should be doing.

On the wider subject of making Pakistan pay for this atrocity by these terrorist animals, I'm not against anything that doesn't cost us too much. For example

- If we can do a few drone attacks on specifically targeted locations, I'm all for it. I'm no military expert so I don't know if we have the capability but this would be a nice proportionate response that's deniable and unlikely to provoke significant retaliatory action

- If we can leverage our Diplomatic relationships to get Pakistan back on the FATF gray/blacklist, I'm in favour. If we can get a couple of sanctions thrown in, even better

- If we can get a few companies like Suzuki and Toyota that have massive business in India and small operations in Pakistan to exit Pakistan in return for some concessions, again no issue. It'll be something visible and high-profile.

On the whole, from listening to analysts, I do believe there is Pakistani involvement (whether active or passive) in the atrocity and I'm all for action but in a measured, targeted manner that doesn't hurt us in any way.

 

[JaDed]

Suzuki and

This is going to be a longish post.

You're right that I (among others) don't have the stomach for what you're proposing. I actually live in India and have zero interest in turning my country into a sadistic, rogue State and living under threat of nuclear warfare.

On the other hand, I'm not against withdrawing from the Indus Water Treaty (IWT). Not out of any desire to kill millions of Pakistanis but because we do need more water than the 20% or so we were allocated under it. Unlike us, they're not fully utilising their share of the water anyway and with a meagre couple of billion dollars of investment over 3-4 years, we can improve water availability in some northern states. It won't give us some fantasized ability to shut off Pakistan's water supply and they will barely notice the water we're taking except during the dry season. I only think of these potential water shortages in Pakistan as a side-effect not the reason for what we should be doing.

On the wider subject of making Pakistan pay for this atrocity by these terrorist animals, I'm not against anything that doesn't cost us too much. For example

- If we can do a few drone attacks on specifically targeted locations, I'm all for it. I'm no military expert so I don't know if we have the capability but this would be a nice proportionate response that's deniable and unlikely to provoke significant retaliatory action

- If we can leverage our Diplomatic relationships to get Pakistan back on the FATF gray/blacklist, I'm in favour. If we can get a couple of sanctions thrown in, even better

- If we can get a few companies like Suzuki and Toyota that have massive business in India and small operations in Pakistan to exit Pakistan in return for some concessions, again no issue. It'll be something visible and high-profile.

On the whole, from listening to analysts, I do believe there is Pakistani involvement (whether active or passive) in the atrocity and I'm all for action but in a measured, targeted manner that doesn't hurt us in any way.

toyota and Suzuki keep the market share there and make Pakistani pay for crap.

Drone attacks would be great but our Drone capabilities are not that of US or Israel.

Agree on FATF/grey list and water utilization

 

[zn426]

I'm reading the posts on these threads...are you people insane? Do you have no sense? I see Indians talking about starving Pakistan of water, using the dam system to disrupt Pakistani agriculture and destroy food and crops, are you serious? If you want to go to war, at least be honest about it. Don't hide behind violations of a treaty that put millions of people at risk.

Speaking objectively-you will get absolutely none of what you are claiming. Seeing as 1 million Indian troops can't stop a terror attack I think their ability to protect their dam infrastructure in such contested areas is suspect. Pakistan threatening nuclear warfare is stupid, it will kill the whole subcontinent in nuclear exchanges and 1.5B dead people would be even worse. This isn't Hiroshima or Nagasaki, both Pakistan and India are highly densely populated countries. It's also morally wrong to threaten nuclear warfare.

I do think however that if India starts building more dams those dams will get attacked. Pakistan has made that very clear. I keep seeing this question: "who will enforce the treaty?". Well, if India's not observing the treaty, Pakistan's only option is to go to the International courts or to simply start using military force to enforce the treaty. It's very obvious that Pakistan is currently favoring the latter.

 

[BouncerGuy]

please stay on topic

 

[Red-Indian]

Suzuki and

toyota and Suzuki keep the market share there and make Pakistani pay for crap.

Drone attacks would be great but our Drone capabilities are not that of US or Israel.

Agree on FATF/grey list and water utilization

Yeah I don't think forcing a few companies like Toyota and Suzuki to exit Pakistan will have huge impact. Chinese companies will just step into the void. However it'll be highly visible and an occasion for Indian government chest thumping which they badly need in order to prevent them from doing crazier things.

On the drones, as I said I'm not a military expert but I would hope we could leverage our relationship with the States and their desire to sell something to us to lower the trade deficit to get some of that technology. I remember a deal for Predator drones being signed last year but I'm not sure of delivery dates.

 

[Buzzinga]

I'm reading the posts on these threads...are you people insane? Do you have no sense? I see Indians talking about starving Pakistan of water, using the dam system to disrupt Pakistani agriculture and destroy food and crops, are you serious? If you want to go to war, at least be honest about it. Don't hide behind violations of a treaty that put millions of people at risk.

Speaking objectively-you will get absolutely none of what you are claiming. Seeing as 1 million Indian troops can't stop a terror attack I think their ability to protect their dam infrastructure in such contested areas is suspect. Pakistan threatening nuclear warfare is stupid, it will kill the whole subcontinent in nuclear exchanges and 1.5B dead people would be even worse. This isn't Hiroshima or Nagasaki, both Pakistan and India are highly densely populated countries. It's also morally wrong to threaten nuclear warfare.

I do think however that if India starts building more dams those dams will get attacked. Pakistan has made that very clear. I keep seeing this question: "who will enforce the treaty?". Well, if India's not observing the treaty, Pakistan's only option is to go to the International courts or to simply start using military force to enforce the treaty. It's very obvious that Pakistan is currently favoring the latter.

Just out of curiosity -

I keep reading from Pakistanis that China will do this , China will do that. China is gonna restrict Brahmputra waters and all in response (For Pakistan).

Do you know, China has already been doing that. They have already built many dams and roads in disputed areas unilaterally despite having the treaty.

So again, who is going to enforce the treaty if India really walks out of it.

Actually i agree with @Red-Indian , We need to either revise the treaty or walk out of it. Not to starve Pakistani population but to get the fair share of it.

 

[BouncerGuy]

‘Indus Waters Treaty crucial for regional stability’

Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Ishaq Dar on Monday emphasised that the implementation of the Indus Waters Treaty was crucial for regional stability, vowing Pakistan would take all necessary measures to ensure its full enforcement.

“The treaty is critical to regional stability and its sanctity must be preserved,” Mr Dar said while speaking at a high-level meeting convened to strategize Pakistan’s response to India’s suspension of the decades-old accord.

The meeting was attended by Law and Justice Minister Azam Nazir Tarrar, Attorney General Mansoor Awan, senior officials, technical experts, and former foreign secretaries.

On Monday, Mr Dar condemned India’s move as a “unilateral and illegal” action that contravenes international law, established norms of inter-state relations, and the treaty’s provisions. He warned that India’s attempts to “weaponise water” posed a serious threat to the region’s peace and stability.

“The waters of the Indus River System remain a lifeline for Pakistan’s 240 million people,” he said, underscoring the strategic and humanitarian importance of preserving the treaty.

He reiterated Pakistan’s commitment to safeguarding its rightful share of water under the treaty and pledged to continue advocating for its full implementation to protect the country’s water security and the well-being of its people.

DAWN NEWS

 

[rpant_gabba]

I'm reading the posts on these threads...are you people insane? Do you have no sense? I see Indians talking about starving Pakistan of water, using the dam system to disrupt Pakistani agriculture and destroy food and crops, are you serious? If you want to go to war, at least be honest about it. Don't hide behind violations of a treaty that put millions of people at risk.

Irony died a thousand deaths.

Isn't Pak motto to bleed India to death by thousand cuts. May be you can tell Pak establishment to not hide behind non state actors

Speaking objectively-you will get absolutely none of what you are claiming. Seeing as 1 million Indian troops can't stop a terror attack I think their ability to protect their dam infrastructure in such contested areas is suspect. Pakistan threatening nuclear warfare is stupid, it will kill the whole subcontinent in nuclear exchanges and 1.5B dead people would be even worse. This isn't Hiroshima or Nagasaki, both Pakistan and India are highly densely populated countries. It's also morally wrong to threaten nuclear warfare.

tell that to Pak establishment

I do think however that if India starts building more dams those dams will get attacked. Pakistan has made that very clear. I keep seeing this question: "who will enforce the treaty?". Well, if India's not observing the treaty, Pakistan's only option is to go to the International courts

Which international court? They couldn't do crap about Ukraine invasion by Russia or Israel ponding Hamas with Gazan as collateral damage

or to simply start using military force to enforce the treaty. It's very obvious that Pakistan is currently favoring the latter.

That is the goal for India isn't? get Pak to come out and play.

 

[rpant_gabba]

He will get arrested if he lists them again

So you did read it. what did you think?

Its an elegant effective plan which brings about serious damage without involving military action.

Can you imagine the world wide panic? too bad India is stlll infested by GNV

 

[zn426]

Irony died a thousand deaths.

Isn't Pak motto to bleed India to death by thousand cuts. May be you can tell Pak establishment to not hide behind non state actors

tell that to Pak establishment

Which international court? They couldn't do crap about Ukraine invasion by Russia or Israel ponding Hamas with Gazan as collateral damage

That is the goal for India isn't? get Pak to come out and play.

Come out and play will result in the disasters I have suggested-answer this very simple question

Is the death of hundreds of millions of people, possibly more, an acceptable result for you if Pakistan attacks in the manner you are hoping for? The only two answers available to you are Yes or No.

 

[Devadwal]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1917466325795922280

 

[Vikram1989]

View attachment 154019

https://twitter.com/x/status/1917466325795922280

No wonder with so much of false news peddling from pak side.if the area is drained out, pak army should divert its people attention asap.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Come out and play will result in the disasters I have suggested-answer this very simple question

Is the death of hundreds of millions of people, possibly more, an acceptable result for you if Pakistan attacks in the manner you are hoping for? The only two answers available to you are Yes or No.

Will continue its support of nonstate actors against India?

The only two answers available to you are Yes or No.

 

[zn426]

Will continue its support of nonstate actors against India?

The only two answers available to you are Yes or No.

You will receive no answer until you answer my question, and to be frank you're asking the wrong person-I'm an American.

 

[rpant_gabba]

You will receive no answer until you answer my question,

Likewise.

Dumb lawyer tricks don't work me

and to be frank you're asking the wrong person-I'm an American.

That makes two of us.

 

[RexRex]

Come out and play will result in the disasters I have suggested-answer this very simple question

Is the death of hundreds of millions of people, possibly more, an acceptable result for you if Pakistan attacks in the manner you are hoping for? The only two answers available to you are Yes or No.

It's called deterrence, or essentially a signal to your establishment that any future terror attack is going to have catastrophic consequences for Pakistan's water economy.

 

[rpant_gabba]

It's called deterrence, or essentially a signal to your establishment that any future terror attack is going to have catastrophic consequences for Pakistan's water economy.

Oh he is fully aware of what it is. This is classic "how dare you threaten us with consequences while we murder your citizens" tactic.

This approach has worked for along time due to GNV.

 

[Devadwal]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1917821272958066744

 

[zn426]

It's called deterrence, or essentially a signal to your establishment that any future terror attack is going to have catastrophic consequences for Pakistan's water economy.

It's not deterence if the threats are serious. India is looking for an excuse to be the victim or claim self defense here. Pakistan is telling them "don't try it, we have a treaty and we will enforce it by force if we have to".
Threatening death and destruction on each other is horrific, but here we are. You guys think India has the moral authority here? Bluntly with the way India treats Christians and other minorities that's laughable.

 

[rpant_gabba]

It's not deterence if the threats are serious. India is looking for an excuse to be the victim or claim self defense here. Pakistan is telling them "don't try it, we have a treaty and we will enforce it by force if we have to".
Threatening death and destruction on each other is horrific, but here we are. You guys think India has the moral authority here? Bluntly with the way India treats Christians and other minorities that's laughable.

Nice deflection while avoiding the the issue of terrorism altogether. Taqiyya at its best

 

[Theanonymousone]

It's not deterence if the threats are serious. India is looking for an excuse to be the victim or claim self defense here. Pakistan is telling them "don't try it, we have a treaty and we will enforce it by force if we have to".
Threatening death and destruction on each other is horrific, but here we are. You guys think India has the moral authority here? Bluntly with the way India treats Christians and other minorities that's laughable.

Dude
A non-muslim is a second grade citizen in Pak. Minorities are thriving in India. Christian conversions would not be so active if India is atleast closer to what you portray.

We have every right to question sbout old treaties and renegotiate if necessary if our benevolence is met with terrorism.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

@Bhaijaan this was forward to me on whatsapp with the caption
Aur woh log kehte is qaum ky pas khany ko kuch nai?

 

[Bhaijaan]

Those 26 lives proving to be very costly.

View attachment 154053

@Bhaijaan this was forward to me on whatsapp with the caption
Aur woh log kehte is qaum ky pas khany ko kuch nai?

Adnan bhai was living the best life as a Pakistani. We went through a phase when Pakistani artist tag was a brand itself and we couldn’t get enough Pakistanis during the collab era. Great times. Mumbai 26/11 ruined so much.

 

[BouncerGuy]

STAY ON TOPIC.

 

[Kriketer]

Will continue its support of nonstate actors against India?

The only two answers available to you are Yes or No.

Your nonstate actors are leading your country, perhaps go ask them why they got your innocent civilians murdered? But hey if he could become a PM after killing 3000 Indian civilians, then what is 26 more to him and his Hindutva terrorists. No wonder we laugh off your delusional silly claims of people arriving on little boats from far apart or 4 random crossing border and entering a heavy militarized area with multiple check points, no wonder only Hindutva gets fooled by this comical propaganda

 

[rpant_gabba]

Your nonstate actors are leading your country, perhaps go ask them why they got your innocent civilians murdered? But hey if he could become a PM after killing 3000 Indian civilians, then what is 26 more to him and his Hindutva terrorists. No wonder we laugh off your delusional silly claims of people arriving on little boats from far apart or 4 random crossing border and entering a heavy militarized area with multiple check points, no wonder only Hindutva gets fooled by this comical propaganda

You are absolutely correct. becos, there was no terrorism from Pakistan India before Modi.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Your nonstate actors are leading your country, perhaps go ask them why they got your innocent civilians murdered? But hey if he could become a PM after killing 3000 Indian civilians, then what is 26 more to him and his Hindutva terrorists. No wonder we laugh off your delusional silly claims of people arriving on little boats from far apart or 4 random crossing border and entering a heavy militarized area with multiple check points, no wonder only Hindutva gets fooled by this comical propaganda

What does that even mean?? ... Thoda padh lo yaar.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

View attachment 154053

@Bhaijaan this was forward to me on whatsapp with the caption
Aur woh log kehte is qaum ky pas khany ko kuch nai?

This is truly sad, How bad India treats Muslims live example! I am truly ashamed

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

It's not deterence if the threats are serious. India is looking for an excuse to be the victim or claim self defense here. Pakistan is telling them "don't try it, we have a treaty and we will enforce it by force if we have to".
Threatening death and destruction on each other is horrific, but here we are. You guys think India has the moral authority here? Bluntly with the way India treats Christians and other minorities that's laughable.

Minorities get a poor treatment world over.
In India, minority population share is actually increasing. Can you say the same for your country?
If India is so genocidal towards Muslims, how is that their population is organically increasing while in your country minorities are going extinct?

 

[Kriketer]

You are absolutely correct. becos, there was no terrorism from Pakistan India before Modi.

There have always been baseless allegations and nothing else. The only terrorism we know for a fact is the occupation, killing, kidnapping, raping, torturing, curfewing etc by a million deployed Indian Terrorist army on millions of Kashmiris for 76 years.

Even Indians are now questioning what's the point of having a million soldiers in Kashmir when they can't protect citizens, atleast you have started to admit your "forceful" hold of it so a nice change

 

[rpant_gabba]

There have always been baseless allegations and nothing else. The only terrorism we know for a fact is the occupation, killing, kidnapping, raping, torturing, curfewing etc by a million deployed Indian Terrorist army on millions of Kashmiris for 76 years.

Even Indians are now questioning what's the point of having a million soldiers in Kashmir when they can't protect citizens, atleast you have started to admit your "forceful" hold of it so a nice change

sure. Pak has never been involved in terrorism in India and Mush's interview with Heise never happened. Pak allowed itself to be droned for no reason by US and went along with the Abbottabad story for fun.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Pakistan to officially challenge India's suspension of Indus Waters Treaty

Pakistan has decided to issue a formal diplomatic notice to India following its unilateral suspension of the Indus Waters Treaty, officials confirmed on Friday.

According to sources from the Indus Commission, Pakistan's Ministries of Foreign Affairs, Water Resources, and Law have completed initial consultations on the matter. The diplomatic note will demand a detailed explanation for India’s suspension of the decades-old water-sharing agreement.

Pakistan is also considering raising strong objections at international forums against what it calls India’s "water terrorism." The move aims to reinforce Pakistan’s stance with legal and moral legitimacy before the global community.

Officials emphasised that Pakistan held legal precedence under the Indus Waters Treaty and had never violated its terms. They expressed confidence that India would be compelled to reconsider its decision in the near future.

All further steps would be taken following formal approval from the federal cabinet, officials added. Pakistan has reiterated its commitment to upholding international law and peaceful dispute resolution.

Pakistan to officially challenge India's suspension of Indus Waters Treaty

They expressed confidence that India would be compelled to reconsider its decision

dunyanews.tv

 

[JaDed]

Water terrorism, next might be kabootar terrorism from India.