Pakistan fans defending the resignation of Gary Kirsten is one of their biggest mistake

[shaz619]

I’ve never witnessed anything quiet like this in all my time following Pakistan cricket.

This has to be a first.

Coach is gone in 4 months, even Bob lasted longer (may God rest his soul).

So how does that happen, if you’ve not been living inside a box, you ought to accept that there would have to be some unique circumstances which have led to this point.

It all started during the WT20 this year, when certain players were not cooperating with Gary Kirsten and made his life a living hell, showing a world championship winning coach their chaprasi ego by making comments like I’ve been playing for Pakistan for x amount of years and how it’s their father’s team and what not.

The PCB did breach their contract with Gary by changing the terms, but this was under the pressure of players who were simply not willing to work with Gary or give him a chance, they saw a legitimate world championship winning coach as a threat and therefore wanted him out.

The WT20 ended in a catastrophic failure and weirdly this ought to have bought Gary some leverage, but everything changed when Pakistan won the Test series against England recently.

A certain someone would only be willing to lead the team if their demands were fulfilled, their campaign to remove Gary had already begun the moment he was hired but the icing on the cake was changing his contractual terms to support one individual.

Now there are Pakistan fans who blindly defend this individual and those who are part of a group who have infiltrated the heart of Pakistan cricket.

It’s simply unacceptable to point the entire blame on the PCB, historically Pakistan cricket has been held hostage by senior cricketer’s but never quiet like this and it is going to continue as long as Pakistan cricket fans support the conspiracy.

So yes, overlooking what has actually happened and not quiet grasping what has truly led to the resignation of Gary Kirsten is like supporting the death of Bob Woolmer, I genuinely feel very strongly about this.

Jason Gillespie is new to international coaching so he will stick around a little longer, but you had an ace coach who gave up lucrative T20 contracts to help you out, but you want to support certain individuals ahead of what’s best for Pakistan cricket; SHAME ON YOU ALL.

 

[shaz619]

@Rana @mominsaigol @TheSultan @topspin

 

[shaz619]

Just 4 months, my god, people doubted Gary, but he saw the fallacy before him and I respect him so much more for the action he has taken. He was taken for a ride from the start and was just being patient with the goons who have held Pakistan cricket hostage.

And I just can’t fathom how fans are supporting this.

 

[Bewal Express]

Just 4 months, my god, people doubted Gary, but he saw the fallacy before him and I respect him so much more for the action he has taken. He was taken for a ride from the start and was just being patient with the goons who have held Pakistan cricket hostage.

And I just can’t fathom how fans are supporting this.

He was sacked by Naqvi, not by the players.

 

[shaz619]

The PCB shouldn’t be crucified to protect individuals who are truly responsible for getting rid of the coach.

How can any true Pakistan fan support this?

For how long will you keep quiet about the conflict of interest caused by the Saya Group?

I’ve not even mentioned what happened with Fakhar which is another significant event in all this.

 

[Rana]

@Rana @mominsaigol @TheSultan @topspin

Excellent post bro

Will give a proper detailed response by this evening

 

[shaz619]

He was sacked by Naqvi, not by the players.

No respectable board would just let him go so easily, there’s a reason they are not disputing the resignation.

 

[shaz619]

Excellent post bro

Will give a proper detailed response by this evening

No worries, I am just shocked to read some of the posts on this topic this morning, I can’t believe it, I think am dreaming

 

[Rana]

No worries, I am just shocked to read some of the posts on this topic this morning, I can’t believe it, I think am dreaming

Bro I don’t want to give a one-two liner to your post. There is actually a lot to uncover in this. It really does summarise what has been a sustained amount of robbery that is being committed in the name of Pakistan cricket

It’s not the team you will want it to be brother. It’s not the nation that will see it the way you think it should be seen. This is the unfortunate truth.

 

[IMMY69]

I’ve never witnessed anything quiet like this in all my time following Pakistan cricket.

This has to be a first.

Coach is gone in 4 months, even Bob lasted longer (may God rest his soul).

So how does that happen, if you’ve not been living inside a box, you ought to accept that there would have to be some unique circumstances which have led to this point.

It all started during the WT20 this year, when certain players were not cooperating with Gary Kirsten and made his life a living hell, showing a world championship winning coach their chaprasi ego by making comments like I’ve been playing for Pakistan for x amount of years and how it’s their father’s team and what not.

The PCB did breach their contract with Gary by changing the terms, but this was under the pressure of players who were simply not willing to work with Gary or give him a chance, they saw a legitimate world championship winning coach as a threat and therefore wanted him out.

The WT20 ended in a catastrophic failure and weirdly this ought to have bought Gary some leverage, but everything changed when Pakistan won the Test series against England recently.

A certain someone would only be willing to lead the team if their demands were fulfilled, their campaign to remove Gary had already begun the moment he was hired but the icing on the cake was changing his contractual terms to support one individual.

Now there are Pakistan fans who blindly defend this individual and those who are part of a group who have infiltrated the heart of Pakistan cricket.

It’s simply unacceptable to point the entire blame on the PCB, historically Pakistan cricket has been held hostage by senior cricketer’s but never quiet like this and it is going to continue as long as Pakistan cricket fans support the conspiracy.

So yes, overlooking what has actually happened and not quiet grasping what has truly led to the resignation of Gary Kirsten is like supporting the death of Bob Woolmer, I genuinely feel very strongly about this.

Jason Gillespie is new to international coaching so he will stick around a little longer, but you had an ace coach who gave up lucrative T20 contracts to help you out, but you want to support certain individuals ahead of what’s best for Pakistan cricket; SHAME ON YOU ALL.

If his removal has anything to do with Rizwan or this Saya Corporation thing then I'll be the first to demand Rizwan's removal.
Are we sure that it's not due to the new selection process?

 

[Bewal Express]

No respectable board would just let him go so easily, there’s a reason they are not disputing the resignation.

As I said before appointing expensive foreign coaches doesn't work for us but once Naqvi( the guy these guys support so passionately because he kills people) appointed him, surely you give him time and stick to the contract

 

[shaz619]

If his removal has anything to do with Rizwan or this Saya Corporation thing then I'll be the first to demand Rizwan's removal.
Are we sure that it's not due to the new selection process?

I don’t want to influence your views with my own, but just look at the timeline bro, the devil’s in the detail, you’re from the same lands as me, and I think you’re better positioned to see what has gone down

 

[shaz619]

As I said before appointing expensive foreign coaches doesn't work for us but once Naqvi( the guy these guys support so passionately because he kills people) appointed him, surely you give him time and stick to the contract

I can see that but there are foreign coaches who have had success with Pakistan my friend, chiefly Bob Woolmer and he to me is best cricket coach of all time; Gary Kirsten is of that ilk and when he is willing to come to the table you treat him with respect. I don’t want to talk politics, look I tend have similar views as you and I could turn against those people just based on that but they’re not bad guys and have been talking a lot of sense about Pakistan cricket when nobody else does and our team keeps stooping to new lows. I appreciate people have some strong political views but we need to try our best to keep them separate from professional sport and just judge the timeline for ourselves.

I like Imran Khan and I know @Rana and a few others don’t as much, in fact I have family who don’t like him much either but it doesn’t mean we can’t get along and if you’re a respectable person that’s what matters more to me. I also know some individuals who support IK but are the spawns of satan as people, so it is worth keeping that in mind as well.

Judge the timeline as I said.

 

[Major]

would like if posters start giving sources just like during the old days in PP where no one was allowed to talk without any source.

alot of assumptions made in OP where the blame is being pinned on certain players that OP doesnt like and than tags his buddies to make it one of those same rizwan bashing threads.

 

[CleverSir]

name and shame. Otherwise it’s just adding to baseless nonsense accusations.

 

[shaz619]

would like if posters start giving sources just like during the old days in PP where no one was allowed to talk without any source.

alot of assumptions made in OP where the blame is being pinned on certain players that OP doesnt like and than tags his buddies to make it one of those same rizwan bashing threads.

The vast majority of the OP has been reported in the media, and what I’ve highlighted is more of a timeline so you are best positioned to judge and reinforce with the many sources out there. But to name one, the recent appointment was not made without demands.

If I created a thread in tribute to Misbah and advocated his holiness / his greatness as the undisputed ATG and what not, I doubt you’d be showing me cheek.

 

[Bewal Express]

I can see that but there are foreign coaches who have had success with Pakistan my friend, chiefly Bob Woolmer and he to me is best cricket coach of all time; Gary Kirsten is of that ilk and when he is willing to come to the table you treat him with respect. I don’t want to talk politics, look I tend have similar views as you and I could turn against those people just based on that but they’re not bad guys and have been talking a lot of sense about Pakistan cricket when nobody else does and our team keeps stooping to new lows. I appreciate people have some strong political views but we need to try our best to keep them separate from professional sport and just judge the timeline for ourselves.

I like Imran Khan and I know @Rana and a few others don’t as much, in fact I have family who don’t like him much either but it doesn’t mean we can’t get along and if you’re a respectable person that’s what matters more to me. I also know some individuals who support IK but are the spawns of satan as people, so it is worth keeping that in mind as well.

Judge the timeline as I said.

I respect your point of view because it's coming from a place where you want PK to do well and you liking or not liking some players is all good. Where I disagree with you is when you say we need to keep the politics out of this- we can't because Naqvi is also in charge of the security of 250mn and @Rana admitted last week that he doesn't have time to do both jobs( he is here and you can ask him). We only have one Sport we are decent at and we have a chair that couldn't find time to sign off the main domestic tournament and I am not exaggerating.

 

[Bewal Express]

name and shame. Otherwise it’s just adding to baseless nonsense accusations.

Is that to me?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Not PCB but it's current administration is a mess

 

[shaz619]

Bro I don’t have as much of an issue with Khan, I only respond harshly to those who see him as everything right and everyone else as wrong.

It hurts me a lot to be disrespectful towards him because there are good people who believe in him.

That’s fair, when you’re calm and listen to the opposing view from respectable people it’s a lot easier to understand their POV even if you have other views. And I agree, nobody should ever be free from criticism, unfortunately we have the cult of personality in Pakistan cricket as well

 

[DeadlyVenom]

We have too much analysis of oh Rizwan did this or Babar did that, or Shaheen did this.

If you have a proper structure, none of that stuff happens.

If players misbehave ( not saying it happened here), it's down to the chaotic structures that allow it to happen. Time and time again.

In this situation I don't think it's player power. It's something else that plagues Pakistan - Ex-Player power.

Misbah did it to Mickey, and now Aqib has probably made it happen for Gary.

These ex-players know that a proper structure with a foreign coach will spell the end of their days of leeching. Every time a foreigner or outsider is appointed, they unite to try and oust him. I thought this time they would fail because of the calibre of the coaches.

Aqib did a good job v England, but I bet that he has been whispering in the ear of Naqvi like wormtongue in LOTR to try and get more and more powers.

The only way both these menaces of player power and ex-player power can be tackled is through reform of the PCB. I sadly don't ever see this happening and we will continue to go one step forward and 2 steps back forever.

 

[IMMY69]

I don’t want to influence your views with my own, but just look at the timeline bro, the devil’s in the detail, you’re from the same lands as me, and I think you’re better positioned to see what has gone down

If we proportion blame, you know what my view is...
99pct of it goes to the Administration. The entire place stinks and none of this would happen if we had a proper governing body. Currently it's like an episode of Eastenders.

 

[Rana]

If we proportion blame, you know what my view is...
99pct of it goes to the Administration. The entire place stinks and none of this would happen if we had a proper governing body. Currently it's like an episode of Eastenders.

Yeah and what about Wasim Khan, Ramiz, Misbah, Saqlain creating the cancers within the side?

 

[gazza619]

you had an ace coach who gave up lucrative T20 contracts to help you out

How do you know that the PCB contract wasnt lucrative.

Gary did little to no homework on players before he joined Pakistan team. This was evidenced in team strategy during the WT20 tournament.

Talk about overreaction. Lol

 

[Rana]

How do you know that the PCB contract wasnt lucrative.

Gary did little to no homework on players before he joined Pakistan team. This was evidenced in team strategy during the WT20 tournament.

Talk about overreaction. Lol

I don’t even know where to start with you…let’s take it step by step.

When was Kirsten appointed? How long before the T20wc (his first assignment with the Pakistan side)?

 

[shaz619]

We have too much analysis of oh Rizwan did this or Babar did that, or Shaheen did this.

If you have a proper structure, none of that stuff happens.

If players misbehave ( not saying it happened here), it's down to the chaotic structures that allow it to happen. Time and time again.

In this situation I don't think it's player power. It's something else that plagues Pakistan - Ex-Player power.

Misbah did it to Mickey, and now Aqib has probably made it happen for Gary.

These ex-players know that a proper structure with a foreign coach will spell the end of their days of leeching. Every time a foreigner or outsider is appointed, they unite to try and oust him. I thought this time they would fail because of the calibre of the coaches.

Aqib did a good job v England, but I bet that he has been whispering in the ear of Naqvi like wormtongue in LOTR to try and get more and more powers.

The only way both these menaces of player power and ex-player power can be tackled is through reform of the PCB. I sadly don't ever see this happening and we will continue to go one step forward and 2 steps back forever.

I understand fully how you’re approaching this and I have a similar background as yours, you’ve obviously worked in some highly demanding industries and would have experienced the wonders of structure, especially with global companies. But we need to be realistic, it’s the year 2024, and honestly, you will never see the structure from the western worlds being applied in Pakistan, it just will never happen.

Now you’re right, the system in place has allowed certain individuals to veto high profile coaches etc but it has never happened like this bro, they’ve become smarter e.g. using social media, signing up with a consultancy to promote their agenda etc creating a trusted inner circle who support their views and keeping everyone else out of the way. Prioritising self interest above the team and not really playing for your country.

The structure is not there and the system will not be fixed, but if pakistan fans call out the fallacy then it puts the regime under pressure to address the root cause of the problem.

Even in smaller companies and places where the thinking is narrow and the politics are heightened, there are rarely wholesale changes, but if a specific group is causing issues and others are more vocal about it, then the problem is addressed. But in this case, Pakistan fans are defending certain players and poor results which have gone on for some time, it’s like we are a top 3 team in all formats or something.

Now I am in agreement with you that if this issue is addressed without fixing the system as a whole, it may be a short term solution, but that’s what works best in Pakistan unfortunately. Proactive short term solutions, bringing in the right people and supporting reliable performers who are passionate for the sport and performing for their country.

 

[shaz619]

How do you know that the PCB contract wasnt lucrative.

Gary did little to no homework on players before he joined Pakistan team. This was evidenced in team strategy during the WT20 tournament.

Talk about overreaction. Lol

You’re acting like foreign coaches of his quality are riding a field of horses towards Pakistan, there are more cons for a coach like him regardless of money and I didn’t say they didn’t make an adequate offer, they would have of else he wouldn’t have signed the contract right lol

 

[shaz619]

If we proportion blame, you know what my view is...
99pct of it goes to the Administration. The entire place stinks and none of this would happen if we had a proper governing body. Currently it's like an episode of Eastenders.

That is certainly a big part of it and @DeadlyVenom just raised similar views, I responded in post #26

 

[DeadlyVenom]

How do you know that the PCB contract wasnt lucrative.

Gary did little to no homework on players before he joined Pakistan team. This was evidenced in team strategy during the WT20 tournament.

Talk about overreaction. Lol

TBF the squad was selected before Kirstens appointment. Can't judge him on it.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I understand fully how you’re approaching this and I have a similar background as yours, you’ve obviously worked in some highly demanding industries and would have experienced the wonders of structure, especially with global companies. But we need to be realistic, it’s the year 2024, and honestly, you will never see the structure from the western worlds being applied in Pakistan, it just will never happen.

Now you’re right, the system in place has allowed certain individuals to veto high profile coaches etc but it has never happened like this bro, they’ve become smarter e.g. using social media, signing up with a consultancy to promote their agenda etc creating a trusted inner circle who support their views and keeping everyone else out of the way. Prioritising self interest above the team and not really playing for your country.

The structure is not there and the system will not be fixed, but if pakistan fans call out the fallacy then it puts the regime under pressure to address the root cause of the problem.

Even in smaller companies and places where the thinking is narrow and the politics are heightened, there are rarely wholesale changes, but if a specific group is causing issues and others are more vocal about it, then the problem is addressed. But in this case, Pakistan fans are defending certain players and poor results which have gone on for some time, it’s like we are a top 3 team in all formats or something.

Now I am in agreement with you that if this issue is addressed without fixing the system as a whole, it may be a short term solution, but that’s what works best in Pakistan unfortunately. Proactive short term solutions, bringing in the right people and supporting reliable performers who are passionate for the sport and performing for their country.

We've seen the effect of these short term decisions over the years. I disagree that these work.

If we were to do an analysis of all teams I'd bet we'd have the most number of captains and coaches of all cricketing countries and look at where we are a result.

Player power is an issue but it can be slapped down in an instance by a competent regime.

You will be well familiar with the amount of threads over the years looking for a "blessing in disguise", it sadly never works.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

As soon as foreign coaches are appointed, ex players start circling and make life difficult.

 

[Bewal Express]

We have too much analysis of oh Rizwan did this or Babar did that, or Shaheen did this.

If you have a proper structure, none of that stuff happens.

If players misbehave ( not saying it happened here), it's down to the chaotic structures that allow it to happen. Time and time again.

In this situation I don't think it's player power. It's something else that plagues Pakistan - Ex-Player power.

Misbah did it to Mickey, and now Aqib has probably made it happen for Gary.

These ex-players know that a proper structure with a foreign coach will spell the end of their days of leeching. Every time a foreigner or outsider is appointed, they unite to try and oust him. I thought this time they would fail because of the calibre of the coaches.

Aqib did a good job v England, but I bet that he has been whispering in the ear of Naqvi like wormtongue in LOTR to try and get more and more powers.

The only way both these menaces of player power and ex-player power can be tackled is through reform of the PCB. I sadly don't ever see this happening and we will continue to go one step forward and 2 steps back forever.

The Institution is rotten and in the chaos we get this.

 

[Kianig89]

Shame.on you All, needs explanation if PCB has bent down infront of players, then definitely it's PCB fault , because ultimately they are one calling the shots.

Also the story made up is all heresy and sentimental expression

 

[Rana]

As soon as foreign coaches are appointed, ex players start circling and make life difficult.

They (ex players) do the same for everyone

It’s the journalists who have the bigger issue. Maybe because their work becomes much harder due to their poor English language proficiency.

 

[Rana]

@shaz619

Notice a common trend. You didn’t name the player, but all the ardent fans of that player are here to shut you down.

The path of fire my brother.

 

[gazza619]

TBF the squad was selected before Kirstens appointment. Can't judge him on it.

But Gary was part of the think tank that decided that Imad Wasim, Azam Khan & Shadab Khan should bat ahead of proper batters. He didnt have the brains either to realise that M Amir at his 125 kph is not a super over bowler.

Gary did enough stupidity in my opinion to be sacked.

 

[gazza619]

You’re acting like foreign coaches of his quality are riding a field of horses towards Pakistan, there are more cons for a coach like him regardless of money and I didn’t say they didn’t make an adequate offer, they would have of else he wouldn’t have signed the contract right lol

Lets make no mistake Gary was no messiah who joined Pakistan team for the good of humanity.

He is just a quitter.

 

[gazza619]

I don’t even know where to start with you…let’s take it step by step.

When was Kirsten appointed? How long before the T20wc (his first assignment with the Pakistan side)?

Read my other post on Gary’s stupidity during WT20

If you want to turn a blind eye then thats your call.

 

[Kianig89]

Bob Woolmer lost his life during a traumatic world cup show by Pakistan team, while Kirsten himself gave up on Pakistan cricket may be he got some better offer.

Stop with rona dhona it's not the end of the world

 

[Hawkeye]

@Rana

What’s the issue here. Now that PCB finally wants to limit the influence of Babar, Shadab, Imam and the gang, why Gary decided to quit? And why is that an issue?

Isn’t that a good thing.

First time in the history we are seeing the “seniors” and undroppable players like Babar sidelined for a tour like Zimambwe.

Moreover, Gary wasn’t around in the domestic circuit either. Who did he want to stick with? Shadab khan?

 

[shaz619]

@shaz619

Notice a common trend. You didn’t name the player, but all the ardent fans of that player are here to shut you down.

The path of fire my brother.

They are literally vindicating the OP without even knowing it, there are levels to this, each jobber is showing up only to eliminate themselves from the Royal Rumble

 

[shaz619]

Lets make no mistake Gary was no messiah who joined Pakistan team for the good of humanity.

He is just a quitter.

If you think a high profile World Cup winning coach leaving Pakistan after just 4 months is more of a reflection on him then anything else then I have no words lol

 

[shaz619]

We've seen the effect of these short term decisions over the years. I disagree that these work.

If we were to do an analysis of all teams I'd bet we'd have the most number of captains and coaches of all cricketing countries and look at where we are a result.

Player power is an issue but it can be slapped down in an instance by a competent regime.

You will be well familiar with the amount of threads over the years looking for a "blessing in disguise", it sadly never works.

Before any overhaul process can begin, the snakes need to be taken out in any case, I do agree with your wider concern however

 

[shaz619]

As soon as foreign coaches are appointed, ex players start circling and make life difficult.

That’s true to some degree but not quiet like this, especially with some of the most unpatriotic cricketers to ever play for Pakistan

 

[deltexas]

As soon as foreign coaches are appointed, ex players start circling and make life difficult.

This.. No other country has it to this extent unlike Pak. The bitter ex Pak players just start piling up on foreign coaches irrespective of qualification. Why a foreigner ? Why a white guy ? Why no one from Pak ? etc etc. They dont look at the coach's qualifications. Just pick the best qualified person , and if that person happens to be white, brown, black whatever and from Pak or not , then so be it. And then 1 or 2 losses, they circle back as vultures and claim to be local saviours and start the cycle again

 

[mominsaigol]

would like if posters start giving sources just like during the old days in PP where no one was allowed to talk without any source.

alot of assumptions made in OP where the blame is being pinned on certain players that OP doesnt like and than tags his buddies to make it one of those same rizwan bashing threads.

Right? So your atg odi team followed by Misbah vs Inzi was based of sources?

Which source claimed Misbah > Inzi? And Misbah at no 6 in an atg odi team?

 

[Cryin Out Loud]

Pakistan cricket’s inherent instability shows in times such as these.

At what should be moments of celebration and coming together in the aftermath of a storied, historical, series win, they manage to manufacture a controversy of supreme tragic/ comic / (choose your word) proportions.

I can’t even.

 

[shaz619]

Right? So your atg odi team followed by Misbah vs Inzi was based of sources?

Which source claimed Misbah > Inzi? And Misbah at no 6 in an atg odi team?

The source is readily available, see Mohali 2011 for your vindication

 

[Kianig89]

Everybody stop it with the rona dhona, open their favourite players behind and jump inside it instead

Yes queue up all Sharjeel Khan is waiting

 

[mominsaigol]

The source is readily available, see Mohali 2011 for your vindication

Misbah's best innings are from 2007 t20 wc.

The group stage game against India amd the game against aus would have been drawn and won respectively had Misbah not stepped in.

The problem was that during the early 2000's Misbah was never good enough to get into the team.

So while most batters peak at 33-34, Misbah was just entering the team at that time

You can clearly tell Age caught up to Misbah quickly as by 2009 he was a has been. Hence why he went from being an attacking batter to the most frustrating wb batter of all time.

It's truly a shame, Had Inzi not been a goat, Misbah might not have had a poor career trajectory since he was a decent power hitter from 2000-2007.

It's just greed and wanting to become something, Dude couldn't just retire in 2007 since he just became mainstay in the squad at the time.

 

[shaz619]

Yes queue up all Sharjeel Khan is waiting

He’s not available, Imam saab is available any time though, extra special service on Friday’s

 

[shaz619]

Misbah's best innings are from 2007 t20 wc.

The group stage game against India amd the game against aus would have been drawn and won respectively had Misbah not stepped in.

The problem was that during the early 2000's Misbah was never good enough to get into the team.

So while most batters peak at 33-34, Misbah was just entering the team at that time

You can clearly tell Age caught up to Misbah quickly as by 2009 he was a has been. Hence why he went from being an attacking batter to the most frustrating wb batter of all time.

It's truly a shame, Had Inzi not been a goat, Misbah might not have had a poor career trajectory since he was a decent power hitter from 2000-2007.

It's just greed and wanting to become something, Dude couldn't just retire in 2007 since he just became mainstay in the squad at the time.

The truth is, Misbah didn’t want to burn his cricket because he thought he was hard done by, Lucky for him, divine intervention saved his sorry career, but I always said to people he was a solid tailender in Tests

 

[mominsaigol]

Misbah was the most selfish player to ever represent Pakistan and that was very evident with the way he batted.

Aka not caring about the run rate, blocking others from taking doubles, Pretending that only he can bat and protect etc etc.

So it's not surprise that rizzu is the same. The key difference however is that while Misbah would atleast glorify himself as a hero, Rizzu doesn't even do that.

He just says me no 4 please, me opener please and that's it

 

[shaz619]

Misbah was the most selfish player to ever represent Pakistan and that was very evident with the way he batted.

Aka not caring about the run rate, blocking others from taking doubles, Pretending that only he can bat and protect etc etc.

So it's not surprise that rizzu is the same. The key difference however is that while Misbah would atleast glorify himself as a hero, Rizzu doesn't even do that.

He just says me no 4 please, me opener please and that's it

The thing is, with Misbah, everything is superficial, like you very rarely see even his die hard fans speak of a memorable knock he played or how he was a match winner and had a knack for being clutch etc they know to deep down he was mediocre and did well to work within his severe flaws, much like Rizwan who as you mentioned modelled himself after him in a similar manner. But what they do rave about Misbah is the captaincy and I feel that has largely been exposed as well.

 

[mominsaigol]

The truth is, Misbah didn’t want to burn his cricket because he thought he was hard done by, he just knew deep down he was dog sh!te. Lucky for him, divine intervention saved his sorry career, but I always said to people he was a solid tailender in Tests

Had 2000-2007 Misbah existed in today's era he'd have easily gotten into current Pakistan cricket team.

Pakistan requires a batsmen who can play both attacking and defensive cricket.

Problem is that 2000's was packed with YK, Yousaf, Inzi etc etc. Misbah had no chance in hell of getting in the team.

And after 2007 he was a has been batter who pretty much just played at a 20-30 Sr, attacked a bit later and got out after a bottle job.

A very selfish batter because he knew full well he was limited and was limiting the team.

The so called golden era of misbah aka 2012-2016 that fans portray.

Yes a player who's 38- 42 is in his golden era

 

[mominsaigol]

The thing is, with Misbah, everything is superficial, like you very rarely see even his die hard fans speak of a memorable knock he played or how he was a match winner and had a knack for being clutch etc they know to deep down he was mediocre and did well to work within his severe flaws, much like Rizwan who as you mentioned modelled himself after him in a similar manner. But what they do rave about Misbah is the captaincy and I feel that has largely been exposed as well.

Misbah has zero memorable knocks besides aus 2007.

The thing is I don't hate Misbah and Rizzu for not having enough memorable knocks. Their medicore batters so I don't expect them to.

I hate them for being selfish wannabe Crises men clowns.

 

[shaz619]

Had 2000-2007 Misbah existed in today's era he'd have easily gotten into current Pakistan cricket team.

Pakistan requires a batsmen who can play both attacking and defensive cricket.

Problem is that 2000's was packed with YK, Yousaf, Inzi etc etc. Misbah had no chance in hell of getting in the team.

And after 2007 he was a has been batter who pretty much just played at a 20-30 Sr, attacked a bit later and got out after a bottle job.

A very selfish batter because he knew full well he was limited and was limiting the team.

The so called golden era of misbah aka 2012-2016 that fans portray.

Yes a player who's 38- 42 is in his golden era

You’re right 2000’s were his genuine prime and I think even then, at best he’d pile the runs but I don’t suspect he would be a clutch batter, his conversion rate in FC was quiet poor, wasn’t the sort of player to bat big and take the game on which makes sense because he was rarely in contention even as a back up option during those years

 

[mominsaigol]

You’re right 2000’s were his genuine prime and I think even then, at best he’d pile the runs but I don’t suspect he would be a clutch batter, his conversion rate in FC was quiet poor, wasn’t the sort of player to bat big and take the game on which makes sense because he was rarely in contention even as a back up option during those years

He was never ever gonna be a clutch batter. Only reason he makes it in current team is cause we have lullei's like chacha and shadab.

2000-2007 Misbah is prime Misbah and he's just okay. He isn't the worst batter but he's forgetful. If he was a good batter, he'd be featured in the Inzi, Yousaf, Younis, razzaq and Afridi combo.

Heck Malik was also given games over Misbah.

2009-2015 White ball Misbah is the 3rd worst batter I've ever seen in cricket. 1st and 2nd being chacha and rizwan lol.

Won't talk about shan, Azam or many of the other failures cause they were never long features.

These 3 have been around forever and just don't get dropped . Even Misbah deapite retiring always finds a way back in the set up somehow

 

[Asif321]

If your intentions are not right no matter how big a player you are you will fall miserably.( Babar a prime example )Hope Rizwan etc don’t have any hand in Kirsten’s removal and if they did gang up for this then it’s really shameful .

 

[G0rmintAunty]

Just another let's all bash Rizwan thread. As can be seen by all the usual suspects tagged. Nothing new to see here.

 

[Kianig89]

Lol from Moaning on Gary's exit, thread took a fly over to Misbah bashing, mind you Misbah captain Pakistan in 48 Tests, his W/L ratio is very good.

But you all jaari on the rona dhona

 

[TheSultan]

I’ve never witnessed anything quiet like this in all my time following Pakistan cricket.

This has to be a first.

Coach is gone in 4 months, even Bob lasted longer (may God rest his soul).

So how does that happen, if you’ve not been living inside a box, you ought to accept that there would have to be some unique circumstances which have led to this point.

It all started during the WT20 this year, when certain players were not cooperating with Gary Kirsten and made his life a living hell, showing a world championship winning coach their chaprasi ego by making comments like I’ve been playing for Pakistan for x amount of years and how it’s their father’s team and what not.

The PCB did breach their contract with Gary by changing the terms, but this was under the pressure of players who were simply not willing to work with Gary or give him a chance, they saw a legitimate world championship winning coach as a threat and therefore wanted him out.

The WT20 ended in a catastrophic failure and weirdly this ought to have bought Gary some leverage, but everything changed when Pakistan won the Test series against England recently.

A certain someone would only be willing to lead the team if their demands were fulfilled, their campaign to remove Gary had already begun the moment he was hired but the icing on the cake was changing his contractual terms to support one individual.

Now there are Pakistan fans who blindly defend this individual and those who are part of a group who have infiltrated the heart of Pakistan cricket.

It’s simply unacceptable to point the entire blame on the PCB, historically Pakistan cricket has been held hostage by senior cricketer’s but never quiet like this and it is going to continue as long as Pakistan cricket fans support the conspiracy.

So yes, overlooking what has actually happened and not quiet grasping what has truly led to the resignation of Gary Kirsten is like supporting the death of Bob Woolmer, I genuinely feel very strongly about this.

Jason Gillespie is new to international coaching so he will stick around a little longer, but you had an ace coach who gave up lucrative T20 contracts to help you out, but you want to support certain individuals ahead of what’s best for Pakistan cricket; SHAME ON YOU ALL.

Great post and well written.

I looked at it a couple of ways. For me, I didn’t see any change in either approach or core personnel in the T20 World Cup.

Now we know all about the “I’ve been playing X years…” incident.

We all know about the stubborn approach.

I was a bit deflated to discover that he wanted to continue with Babar as white ball captain. But pleased to hear he wanted a drastic change in t20s.

Maybe he saw the window for the CT too small to make massive changes. He probably thought the CT is gone and he can only do a fine tuned job. The real work would start after the CT.

Now let’s get to the captaincy. Gary clearly did not want Rizwan as captain of either team.

When the initial rumours of Rizwan came out, rather than behaving like the pious person he portrays (please listen to his nauseating “I am a servant” monologue yesterday), he says he wants full control of team selection.

Who know what else he asked for.

And following your timeline. He gets the captaincy and the coach resigns. Doesn’t take Einstein to figure it out does it?

I’d just like to add, I do wish Gary had made his vision for the team clearer. because for the casual, he just seemed to be without a plan.

Regardless, you cannot force a coach out like this. It should never have gone this way.

We need to find a way to dismantle **** Corp. I will start doing some digging on them.

 

[TheSultan]

The truth is, Misbah didn’t want to burn his cricket because he thought he was hard done by, Lucky for him, divine intervention saved his sorry career, but I always said to people he was a solid tailender in Tests

The biggest conman in pak cricket. The only bigger conmen are the ones that have succeeded him.

The Australia tour in 2009/10, he cut a sorry figure. He knew he just wasn’t up to the mark.

 

[TheSultan]

You’re right 2000’s were his genuine prime and I think even then, at best he’d pile the runs but I don’t suspect he would be a clutch batter, his conversion rate in FC was quiet poor, wasn’t the sort of player to bat big and take the game on which makes sense because he was rarely in contention even as a back up option during those years

He was picked in 2002 vs the Aussies. And we saw exactly what he was made of then

 

[TheSultan]

Wow! The name of the agency is scrambled? Why?

 

[gazza619]

If you think a high profile World Cup winning coach leaving Pakistan after just 4 months is more of a reflection on him then anything else then I have no words lol

Yeah Gary won the WC for India and Dhoni, Gambhir, Sachin & Yuvi were just spectators.

Gary’s contribution to India’s 2011 win was the same as Intikhab Alam’s contribution to 1992 win.

It is the captain (with his players) that wins you tournaments. Not the coach!!!

 

[TheSultan]

Yeah Gary won the WC for India and Dhoni, Gambhir, Sachin & Yuvi were just spectators.

Gary’s contribution to India’s 2011 win was the same as Intikhab Alam’s contribution to 1992 win.

It is the captain (with his players) that wins you tournaments. Not the coach!!!

Brilliant! So take it let’s all criticise the players for their failures in t20 WC 2021, 2022, 2024. Asia Cup 2022, 2023, ODI WC 2023.

You happy with that. @Rana , @mominsaigol , @shaz619 - we’ve found a new ally. Welcome aboard @gazza619

 

[shaz619]

Lol from Moaning on Gary's exit, thread took a fly over to Misbah bashing, mind you Misbah captain Pakistan in 48 Tests, his W/L ratio is very good.

But you all jaari on the rona dhona

Post #54 predicted this post, another self elimination, courtesy of the Misbah fan club evening bingo - ‘vah ji vah, great captaincy Pir Misbah,

 

[shaz619]

Gazza is one of the Shareef guys who’s niyyat is clean but he does shoot himself quite a lot in the foot.

He’s an amusing fella that gives me laughs, and mostly respectful, very few decent people left.

Maybe he will survive Guy Montag’s ‘heel’ turn. Man, people should read Farenheit 451, it is so relevant to this thread.

 

[Rana]

@Rana

What’s the issue here. Now that PCB finally wants to limit the influence of Babar, Shadab, Imam and the gang, why Gary decided to quit? And why is that an issue?

Isn’t that a good thing.

First time in the history we are seeing the “seniors” and undroppable players like Babar sidelined for a tour like Zimambwe.

Moreover, Gary wasn’t around in the domestic circuit either. Who did he want to stick with? Shadab khan?

You are right bro, and so is the intention to curtail player power by the PCB

But how does it look when you appoint Rizwan as the white ball captain? A man who is in my honest opinion the architect of the entire player power+Dosti Yaari culture?

There are plenty of verified reporters who claimed Rizwan was at the forefront last year when it came to blackmailing the PCB on central contracts. He has gone on record to cry about his batting position. He has gone on record to cry about not being allowed to open with Babar.

How does any of the decision making by the PCB check out when they appoint Rizwan as it’s leader? How is it justified that a man who adamantly refuses to play T20 cricket like the modern countries/teams of the world is made your T20 captain?

PCB do one good thing, but then undo it all by making stupid decisions like this one.

 

[shaz619]

Great post and well written.

I looked at it a couple of ways. For me, I didn’t see any change in either approach or core personnel in the T20 World Cup.

Now we know all about the “I’ve been playing X years…” incident.

We all know about the stubborn approach.

I was a bit deflated to discover that he wanted to continue with Babar as white ball captain. But pleased to hear he wanted a drastic change in t20s.

Maybe he saw the window for the CT too small to make massive changes. He probably thought the CT is gone and he can only do a fine tuned job. The real work would start after the CT.

Now let’s get to the captaincy. Gary clearly did not want Rizwan as captain of either team.

When the initial rumours of Rizwan came out, rather than behaving like the pious person he portrays (please listen to his nauseating “I am a servant” monologue yesterday), he says he wants full control of team selection.

Who know what else he asked for.

And following your timeline. He gets the captaincy and the coach resigns. Doesn’t take Einstein to figure it out does it?

I’d just like to add, I do wish Gary had made his vision for the team clearer. because for the casual, he just seemed to be without a plan.

Regardless, you cannot force a coach out like this. It should never have gone this way.

We need to find a way to dismantle **** Corp. I will start doing some digging on them.

I need sources bruv or you lying!!

You know with Gazza (I think I will call him that after his martyrdom), it would appear he was fighting fire’s for most of his stint, he perhaps like you said should have made his views clearer but I also think he didn’t expect himself to be leaving so soon. In Pakistan cricket when you come in, you need to make some big moves and take advantage off the small windows off opportunity, but it is easier said than done when you’re being sabotaged at every level, especially by those who you want to help.

I think he, like us, and unlike most Pakistan fans, saw the problem with supporting the appointment which was made, the bloke obviously was also aware of Gary’s reservations and that may have inspired his selfish ‘demands’ as well.

 

[Farabi]

But Gary was part of the think tank that decided that Imad Wasim, Azam Khan & Shadab Khan should bat ahead of proper batters. He didnt have the brains either to realise that M Amir at his 125 kph is not a super over bowler.

Gary did enough stupidity in my opinion to be sacked.

This is the thought process responsible for where Pakistan cricket is right now. Impatience and impulsiveness doesn’t help anyone. It’s hard to pin it on Kirsten because he was appointed on the eve of the World Cup. Irrespective of that, Every coach needs time to understand the pool of players, their strengths and weaknesses, and other options available. If the contract was 2 years, then they should be judged on the output at the end of that term. If you’re going to judge series by series, then you will have new coaches series by series, as you already are.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

But Gary was part of the think tank that decided that Imad Wasim, Azam Khan & Shadab Khan should bat ahead of proper batters. He didnt have the brains either to realise that M Amir at his 125 kph is not a super over bowler.

Gary did enough stupidity in my opinion to be sacked.

He came in a few days before the WC.

When you come in at that stage you have to rely on the assistant coaches and captain to get an assessment of the squad and their capabilities.

It's unfair to judge him on that WC.

The signs and rumours are that after the WC debacle he wanted some wholesale changes in the T20 structure.

 

[CleverSir]

Is that to me?

It’s to everyone.

 

[gazza619]

Brilliant! So take it let’s all criticise the players for their failures in t20 WC 2021, 2022, 2024. Asia Cup 2022, 2023, ODI WC 2023.

You happy with that. @Rana , @mominsaigol , @shaz619 - we’ve found a new ally. Welcome aboard @gazza619

Nah I rather not be part of this Pakpassion’s roti gang.

 

[mominsaigol]

Brilliant! So take it let’s all criticise the players for their failures in t20 WC 2021, 2022, 2024. Asia Cup 2022, 2023, ODI WC 2023.

You happy with that. @Rana , @mominsaigol , @shaz619 - we’ve found a new ally. Welcome aboard @gazza619

Mate, His comment about captains and coaches will fly out the window as soon as rizzu gets demolished by Australia and loses ct defending champions right.

Then the narratives will come into play on how the team let the gritty and strong willed rizzu down. The same rubbish excuse they use for Misbah in ct 2013 and wc 2015.

Like yes, the team let Misbah down, Not the fact that Misbah decided to bring Jamshed back into the team totally put of the blue and not play sarfi a specialist keeper for 6 games just so Umar Akmal could keep .

Or how Misbah decided to make Umar Amin a debutant his vice captain in ct 2013

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Anyone who thinks the impact of a new coach is felt within 6 months you are being unrealistic. It can take up to 2 years to feel the full effects. To build a dressing room and a group of capable players takes time and careful planning.

Who is the new ex player darling that is chirping in Naqvi's ear? Aaqib Javed? His ideas will change with every series, there is no method to these ex players. Its going to be another rocky ride to the CT

 

[Savak]

How can fans justify Gary and Gillespie refusing to spend time in Pakistan which their roles demand? The PCB desperately reaches out to these high profile foreign coaches and then these coaches think they can walk over the PCB with their tantrums i.e. not being mandated to spend any unnecessary time in Pakistan, only joining the team on foreign tours e.t.c.

 

[TheSultan]

Nah I rather not be part of this Pakpassion’s roti gang.

Ok that’s fine, but do you agree with the premise. Point me to your posts blaming the captain and senior players for the failures I mentioned in my last post

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

How can fans justify Gary and Gillespie refusing to spend time in Pakistan which their roles demand? The PCB desperately reaches out to these high profile foreign coaches and then these coaches think they can walk over the PCB with their tantrums i.e. not being mandated to spend any unnecessary time in Pakistan, only joining the team on foreign tours e.t.c.

Ideally we do need a coach that can stay in Pakistan and spend time in NCA everyday.

However only a Pakistani would live in Pakistan so which one has won a ICC tournament and track record of building dressing rooms?