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Gary Kirsten steps down as Pakistan's white-ball team coach [Post Updated #17]

YousafTheBeast said:
Is it because chasing 18 off 6 vs USA cannot be done?

USA scored 11 off the last 3 balls in the 20th over, yet we could only score 13 off 6 in the super over?

Also, if you’re tied with the USA after 40 overs, you’ve already lost.
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He was the chief bottler. Sh4t it so much he couldn't bowl straight. That's the reality. I'm glad he's been dumped. I've got no issue if Babar, Rizwan or Haris got dumped after that match too.
 
msb314 said:
I don’t want to go off topic but you have to be fair to the entire process of holding players accountable..

In this example - we had lost the game long before it went to a Super Over.. Haris couldn’t defend 12 off 3 and we were 20/3 batting first on that Dallas wicket
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Shafi said:
As if others were very good. Both Babar and Rizwan were failure so as Shaheen. In ideal world all of them should be banned for creating groups.
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How come Pakistan lost the game before the Super Over? That makes no sense, logically. The fact that it went to the Super Over meant that it was 0/0 all over again and nothing that happened previously mattered anymore.

In spite of all the mistakes by other players, it eventually came down to the Super Over and Pakistan’s fate was in Amir’s hands and he blew it in spectacular fashion.

Both Amir and Imad entered the World Cup with high reputations because that is what happens to Pakistani cricketers who are out of the team for a long time. They become better than they actually are.

Their image was mentally strong players who can hold their nerve under pressure was completely destroyed by their ugly performances vs USA and India respectively.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
He was the chief bottler. Sh4t it so much he couldn't bowl straight. That's the reality. I'm glad he's been dumped. I've got no issue if Babar, Rizwan or Haris got dumped after that match too.
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It was a bad over, but all I’m seeing is that he’s the only one being blamed for the loss because of his selection, not because of that one bad over.

We saw Rauf not being able to defend 15 off 6.

We saw a dropped catch from Shaheen in the last over.

We saw Babar’s clueless field placements in the last over which actually allowed the US to get the boundary of the last ball.

But, all that is being ignored because the game was level at the super over?
 
DeadlyVenom said:
He was the chief bottler. Sh4t it so much he couldn't bowl straight. That's the reality. I'm glad he's been dumped. I've got no issue if Babar, Rizwan or Haris got dumped after that match too.
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Chacha has played 3 super overs in his international career including USA and he bottled all of them.

So even if the score was 10, Chacha wouldn't get their. Infact one 4 was pure luck due to it being a legbye of shadab. The defection caused it to go past the keeper for a boundary.

Chacha has bottled 3 super overs and honestly I can't recall any player who has had the privilege of playing 3 super overs in their cricketing lifespan.

So even if USA made 11 or 12. Chacha wouldn't have gotten their.

In reality pakistan only scored 9 runs in that super over.
 
mominsaigol said:
Chacha has played 3 super overs in his international career including USA and he bottled all of them.

So even if the score was 10, Chacha wouldn't get their. Infact one 4 was pure luck due to it being a legbye of shadab. The defection caused it to go past the keeper for a boundary.

Chacha has bottled 3 super overs and honestly I can't recall any player who has had the privilege of playing 3 super overs in their cricketing lifespan.

So even if USA made 11 or 12. Chacha wouldn't have gotten their.

In reality pakistan only scored 9 runs in that super over.
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As I have said you can put all the ifs buts maybe and pots and pans but these hypothetical can't change what we witnessed with our eyes.
 
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DeadlyVenom said:
As I have said you can put all the ifs buts maybe and pots and pans if my aunty had wheels she'd be a bike comments but these hypothetical can't change what we witnessed with our eyes.
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What hypothetical? Chacha had failed 3 super overs for pakistan. That is not a hypothetical.

It happened. You can blame amir all you want in which case I agree. But that's the point..you should blame ALL THE PEOPLE WHO CAUSED SAID LOSS. Not focus on one and ignore the other cause Chachu is your favourite.

Chacha flunked 3 super overs, his most embarrassing one being Zimbabwe lol
 
YousafTheBeast said:
It was a bad over, but all I’m seeing is that he’s the only one being blamed for the loss because of his selection, not because of that one bad over.

We saw Rauf not being able to defend 15 off 6.

We saw a dropped catch from Shaheen in the last over.

We saw Babar’s clueless field placements in the last over which actually allowed the US to get the boundary of the last ball.

But, all that is being ignored because the game was level at the super over?
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That shouldn't be ignored either, those players have got their comeuppance too from fans. However we have every right to ridicule someone who sat on TV giving judgements but couldn't control himself in a real pressure environment. In purely technical terms he did single handedly lose the match for us given it was just a one over shoot out.

Anyway it's done and dusted but overall I'm glad never to see his face in Pakistan colours again.
 
mominsaigol said:
What hypothetical? Chacha had failed 3 super overs for pakistan. That is not a hypothetical.

It happened. You can blame amir all you want in which case I agree. But that's the point..you should blame ALL THE PEOPLE WHO CAUSED SAID LOSS. Not focus on one and ignore the other cause Chachu is your favourite.

Chacha flunked 3 super overs, his most embarrassing one being Zimbabwe lol
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It's hypothetical because we don't know if Chacha would not have been able to chase a less reasonable score.

It's just your opinion.

You are choosing to focus on imaginary scenarios than the reality of the situation which is we witnessed the worst super over bowling performanfe of all time.

You have been unable to acknowledge this for a long time and instead try to deflect and blame.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
It's hypothetical because we don't know if Chacha would not have been able to chase a less reasonable score.

It's just your opinion.

You are choosing to focus on imaginary scenarios than the reality of the situation which is we witnessed the worst super over bowling performanfe of all time.

You have been unable to acknowledge this for a long time and instead try to deflect and blame.
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It's the 3rd worst super over of all time , not 1st. Not my fault you're unaware of statistics and are arguing from emotion.

Chacha flunked 2 super overs in which case he couldn't chase a score of less then 10 and in the other only scored 2 runs in the super over against Zimbabwe.

To top it off, it's not like he failed but remained not out, he missed a delivery, Hit a 4 on the next one and then got out to a full toss .

Anyone on the planet would have put that full toss away

Infact chacha getting out on an easy full toss against netrvalkar was not an anamoly. Nz bowlers dismissed him in the exact same fashion.

So no this whole we don't know is nonsense from you. Theirs statistical evidence to showcase why chacha wouldn't chase it and infact would have just gotten out scoring 1-4.

As for worst super over in history, I really recommend a Google search.

This is your issue that many people highlighted. You argue from emotion. Theirs never any actual rhyme or logic to anything you argue about.
 
To be honest there was not an iota of improvements under Kristen. He was ok with Ifti, Shadab, Azam.... followed by Babar as a captain. We lost to US and Ireland along with first round exit in T20 World Cup and lost to England. After these types of performances you shouldn't have any authority to select team by yourself specially if you obsessed with Babar and his parchi friends.
 
LOL it’s Misbah! Misbah doing his tuktuk Kala Jadoo! He that with Mickey too.. keep misbah away from Pakistan team
 
Shafi said:
To be honest there was not an iota of improvements under Kristen. He was ok with Ifti, Shadab, Azam.... followed by Babar as a captain. We lost to US and Ireland along with first round exit in T20 World Cup and lost to England. After these types of performances you shouldn't have any authority to select team by yourself specially if you obsessed with Babar and his parchi friends.
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Do you realize he came just before t20 world cup. I would take Gary over pcb any day.

My guess he was not in favor of rizwan being forced as white ball captain, especially for t20 and having no real say in selection.
 

Aaqib, Saqlain in fray to replace Kirsten for Pakistan white ball coach’s job​


As an interim management, PCB has asked read ball coach Jason Gillispie to manage the team for white ball series in Australia from Nov 4

PTI​


Karachi, Updated At : 07:41 PM Oct 28, 2024 IST

Current senior selector Aaqib Javed and former spinner Saqlain Mushtaq are in fray to replace Gary Kirsten as Pakistan’s new white ball coach after the former Proteas batter stepped down due to his differences with country’s cricket board.

Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB), on Monday, officially confirmed that Kirsten had resigned and as an interim arrangement it has asked the red ball coach, Jason Gillispie to manage the team for the white ball series in Australia from November 4. But Gillespie has intimated that he would look at it as a one-off arrangement.

“The problem is both Kirsten and Gillispie were not happy with their sudden demotion in powers with the selectors given powers to call all the shots,” one source said.

He said since Gillispie was in the middle of the England series he reluctantly accepted the changes but has publicly made it clear he is no happy at not being involved in the selection process.

“The situation now is that PCB has to appoint a new white ball coach given the number of white ball commitments of the national team coming up and leading up to the Champions Trophy early next year,” the source said.

“One option is to let assistant coach Azhar Mahmood continue as interim head coach but Aaqib or Saqlain could also land the job.”

Saqlain has remained head coach of the Pakistan team before but was replaced by Mickey Arthur early last year when Najam Sethi was in power in the board.

The source did say they are some other candidates under consideration and the board chairman, Mohsin Naqvi would soon have talks with shortlisted candidates.

PCB has made no official comment on why Kirsten resigned nor has the former South African player said anything but board insiders say the dispute arose over several issues between Kirsten and PCB.

“Look we had high hopes from Kirsten when we entered into a two-year contract with him. The idea was he could help PCB to revolutionise the white ball team,” one source aware of the happenings said.

He said PCB got the feeling that Kirsten never seemed fully committed to his job.

“He did not have a single camp in Pakistan for any of the white ball teams. He was not present at the white ball camps of the Shaheens throughout the summer. And it all culminated with him missing the majority of the Champions Cup.”

Another complaint against Kirsten is that although his contract stated clearly he would just take 30 day-vacation in a year, he didn’t even spend 30 days in Pakistan after joining.

PCB was also put off with Kirsten’s insistence on having more foreign coaches on his team and the dispute between them blew up once the board decided to strip the coaches of selection powers.

PCB had also sidelined and pushed foreign coaches, Mickey Arthur, Grant Bradburn, etc. to resign after last year’s World Cup.

Link: https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/s...e-kirsten-for-pakistan-white-ball-coachs-job/

Comments: It is important to get the PCB's version and point of view. The complaint about Kirsten not having a single white ball camp or spending time in the domestic circuit is justified. Kirsten obviously took advantage of PCB's desperation of hiring high profile coaches and thought he could dictate to them on everything.

PCB obviously let him go for a reason. He was not being fully committed to his role.
 
Clearly Gary wasn't happy that his input wasn't being listened to which brought the obvious conclusion.

The fact that he didn't dedicate the time he committed to on his contract didn't help his cause but the incompetent PCB didn't handle the situation in a smart and diplomatic way.

He should of been given the responsibility he signed for and if it didn't work out he couldn't of had any complaints.

Back to square 1 we go.
 
Savak said:
According to PCB sources both the foreign coaches were demanding full fledged selection powers and the authority to choose the captain and vice captain but the coaches in return were refusing to stay and spend long periods of time in the country at the NCA, to watch young budding cricketers at the academies and domestic cricket.

The PCB then responded to the coaches that if you just insist on coming a few days before the start of every series, then we are going to give selection powers and authority to the selection committee who atleast live in Pakistan, are fully dedicated to their jobs and have up to date knowledge of domestic cricket and the upcoming players.
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Simply ridiculous whatever reason the sources come up with ... They didnt even let him last atleast one series where he can pick his team and compete, He has to convince himself to join this tumultuous board that has Chairman swap every six months and so many coaches left and gone for good professional reasons..

He then accepted and joined the team in the middle of Eng t20 series and then in the WT20 where he was given a team selected by another donboss Wahab Riaz and then after poor show Wahab the dictator gone and has to work with Yousuf and Asad Shafiq for a while until Champions one day cup and suddenly after banglawash and 1 inns defeat to Eng whole thing changed and he has to work with new set of ppl who are arrogant and asked him to be a puppet , kinda treated him like nothing for such a high profile man with loads of coaching experience..

Why the hell did they hire them in the first place spending hours of talking and shxt.. Gary did come and watch the Champions one-day tournament followed by connection camps and so on... 1 inns defeat to England and Aqib comes in took all the powers from the coach and let to this disaster ..

These high profile coaches want consistency in the first place, they are not signed up to work with 100 individuals ( players , coaches , selectors etc ) that they keep on changing every series and every week..

No board in the world is as pathetic as PCB..
 
Savak said:

Aaqib, Saqlain in fray to replace Kirsten for Pakistan white ball coach’s job​


As an interim management, PCB has asked read ball coach Jason Gillispie to manage the team for white ball series in Australia from Nov 4

PTI​


Karachi, Updated At : 07:41 PM Oct 28, 2024 IST

Current senior selector Aaqib Javed and former spinner Saqlain Mushtaq are in fray to replace Gary Kirsten as Pakistan’s new white ball coach after the former Proteas batter stepped down due to his differences with country’s cricket board.

Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB), on Monday, officially confirmed that Kirsten had resigned and as an interim arrangement it has asked the red ball coach, Jason Gillispie to manage the team for the white ball series in Australia from November 4. But Gillespie has intimated that he would look at it as a one-off arrangement.

“The problem is both Kirsten and Gillispie were not happy with their sudden demotion in powers with the selectors given powers to call all the shots,” one source said.

He said since Gillispie was in the middle of the England series he reluctantly accepted the changes but has publicly made it clear he is no happy at not being involved in the selection process.

“The situation now is that PCB has to appoint a new white ball coach given the number of white ball commitments of the national team coming up and leading up to the Champions Trophy early next year,” the source said.

“One option is to let assistant coach Azhar Mahmood continue as interim head coach but Aaqib or Saqlain could also land the job.”

Saqlain has remained head coach of the Pakistan team before but was replaced by Mickey Arthur early last year when Najam Sethi was in power in the board.

The source did say they are some other candidates under consideration and the board chairman, Mohsin Naqvi would soon have talks with shortlisted candidates.

PCB has made no official comment on why Kirsten resigned nor has the former South African player said anything but board insiders say the dispute arose over several issues between Kirsten and PCB.

“Look we had high hopes from Kirsten when we entered into a two-year contract with him. The idea was he could help PCB to revolutionise the white ball team,” one source aware of the happenings said.

He said PCB got the feeling that Kirsten never seemed fully committed to his job.

“He did not have a single camp in Pakistan for any of the white ball teams. He was not present at the white ball camps of the Shaheens throughout the summer. And it all culminated with him missing the majority of the Champions Cup.”

Another complaint against Kirsten is that although his contract stated clearly he would just take 30 day-vacation in a year, he didn’t even spend 30 days in Pakistan after joining.

PCB was also put off with Kirsten’s insistence on having more foreign coaches on his team and the dispute between them blew up once the board decided to strip the coaches of selection powers.

PCB had also sidelined and pushed foreign coaches, Mickey Arthur, Grant Bradburn, etc. to resign after last year’s World Cup.

Link: https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/s...e-kirsten-for-pakistan-white-ball-coachs-job/

Comments: It is important to get the PCB's version and point of view. The complaint about Kirsten not having a single white ball camp or spending time in the domestic circuit is justified. Kirsten obviously took advantage of PCB's desperation of hiring high profile coaches and thought he could dictate to them on everything.

PCB obviously let him go for a reason. He was not being fully committed to his role.
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Losing Kirsten for Aaqib is like giving away BMW for a tuk tuk.. These clowns :facepalm
 
mominsaigol said:
It's the 3rd worst super over of all time , not 1st. Not my fault you're unaware of statistics and are arguing from emotion.

Chacha flunked 2 super overs in which case he couldn't chase a score of less then 10 and in the other only scored 2 runs in the super over against Zimbabwe.

To top it off, it's not like he failed but remained not out, he missed a delivery, Hit a 4 on the next one and then got out to a full toss .

Anyone on the planet would have put that full toss away

Infact chacha getting out on an easy full toss against netrvalkar was not an anamoly. Nz bowlers dismissed him in the exact same fashion.

So no this whole we don't know is nonsense from you. Theirs statistical evidence to showcase why chacha wouldn't chase it and infact would have just gotten out scoring 1-4.

As for worst super over in history, I really recommend a Google search.

This is your issue that many people highlighted. You argue from emotion. Theirs never any actual rhyme or logic to anything you argue about.
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I can assure that you if that Super Over was bowled by Hassan Ali or Shaheen, the narrative would have been different and those two would have been crucified. However, since it was Amir and a lot of people advocated for his return because of his so-called intelligence and ability to handle pressure, people are looking to deflect the blame, e.g. @emranabbas.

We also know what Amir would have said if he was on TV and some other bowlers conceded 19 vs the USA including 3 wides. He would have ripped him to shreds.

It is the worst Super Over of all time due to multiple reasons: yes it is not the most runs ever conceded in a Super Over, but it happened in an actual World Cup unlike other 20+ runs Super Overs that happened in bilateral or World Cup qualifiers like WI vs NED etc.

Also, I’m not sure if we have ever seen 3+ wides in a Super Over. That must be some sort of a record as well but I would be interested to see the actual statistics for this if they exist.

So not only did Amir bowl the most awful Super Over we have ever seen in an actual World Cup, he did it vs a proper minnow/associate team like USA, which makes it the worst Super Over of all time.

Furthermore, none of the other Super Overs were bowled by bowlers who are hailed for their strong mentality and ability to keep their cool under pressure. Amir enjoyed the reputation of being a big moment player but that reputation has been destroyed forever because he will never get a chance to compensate for this since he is not playing for Pakistan again.

Basically, Amir came back only to disgrace himself and bowl the worst Super Over ever. I guess you can call it karma for the amount of toxic criticism that he dished out while on TV.

I can guarantee you that had Babar given someone else the Super Over and he would have done what Amir did, the fans would have claimed that Amir would have won the match for Pakistan if he was given the Super Over and Babar had a personal grudge with him which is why he didn’t give him the ball etc.

Not a single Amir fan would have entertained the possibility that Amir would have conceded 19 runs including 3 wides in a Super Over vs the USA. Not in their wildest dreams.

As far as Iftikhar is concerned, look he might have failed a million Super Overs prior to this one, but we don’t know what he would have done in this situation if the target was lower. History and statistics don’t guarantee anything. History and statistics also show that Amir should not be conceding 19 runs with 3 wides in a Super Over vs USA but it happened anyway.

Maybe Iftikhar would have fluked it this turn and got lucky for once or maybe not. We don’t know, because it is hypothetical.

There is a huge difference been chasing 10-12 in a Super Over as opposed to 20 because that leaves you with no margin of error and every single ball has to go to the boundary. Iftikhars and others didn’t cover themselves in glory either but it was done & dusted after the Amir’s over and he deserves to be singled out for that defeat and his fans should accept it and move on instead of deflecting it by blaming XYZ players and coming up with hypothetical situations.

The USA defeat is 100% on Amir. That doesn’t mean that others played well. They didn’t, but the sequence of events make it clear and obvious that Amir lost Pakistan the match.
 
Mamoon said:
I can assure that you if that Super Over was bowled by Hassan Ali or Shaheen, the narrative would have been different and those two would have been crucified. However, since it was Amir and a lot of people advocated for his return because of his so-called intelligence and ability to handle pressure, people are looking to deflect the blame, e.g. @emranabbas.

We also know what Amir would have said if he was on TV and some other bowlers conceded 19 vs the USA including 3 wides. He would have ripped him to shreds.

It is the worst Super Over of all time due to multiple reasons: yes it is not the most runs ever conceded in a Super Over, but it happened in an actual World Cup unlike other 20+ runs Super Overs that happened in bilateral or World Cup qualifiers like WI vs NED etc.

Also, I’m not sure if we have ever seen 3+ wides in a Super Over. That must be some sort of a record as well but I would be interested to see the actual statistics for this if they exist.

So not only did Amir bowl the most awful Super Over we have ever seen in an actual World Cup, he did it vs a proper minnow/associate team like USA, which makes it the worst Super Over of all time.

Furthermore, none of the other Super Overs were bowled by bowlers who are hailed for their strong mentality and ability to keep their cool under pressure. Amir enjoyed the reputation of being a big moment player but that reputation has been destroyed forever because he will never get a chance to compensate for this since he is not playing for Pakistan again.

Basically, Amir came back only to disgrace himself and bowl the worst Super Over ever. I guess you can call it karma for the amount of toxic criticism that he dished out while on TV.

I can guarantee you that had Babar given someone else the Super Over and he would have done what Amir did, the fans would have claimed that Amir would have won the match for Pakistan if he was given the Super Over and Babar had a personal grudge with him which is why he didn’t give him the ball etc.

Not a single Amir fan would have entertained the possibility that Amir would have conceded 19 runs including 3 wides in a Super Over vs the USA. Not in their wildest dreams.

As far as Iftikhar is concerned, look he might have failed a million Super Overs prior to this one, but we don’t know what he would have done in this situation if the target was lower. History and statistics don’t guarantee anything. History and statistics also show that Amir should not be conceding 19 runs with 3 wides in a Super Over vs USA but it happened anyway.

Maybe Iftikhar would have fluked it this turn and got lucky for once or maybe not. We don’t know, because it is hypothetical.

There is a huge difference been chasing 10-12 in a Super Over as opposed to 20 because that leaves you with no margin of error and every single ball has to go to the boundary. Iftikhars and others didn’t cover themselves in glory either but it was done & dusted after the Amir’s over and he deserves to be singled out for that defeat and his fans should accept it and move on instead of deflecting it by blaming XYZ players and coming up with hypothetical situations.

The USA defeat is 100% on Amir. That doesn’t mean that others played well. They didn’t, but the sequence of events make it clear and obvious that Amir lost Pakistan the match.
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That's AlrightE with me.

For me the worst super over was Wi vs Ned.

This one is 2nd or 3rd for me. But it is an awful super over
 
What do Amir's super over has to do with Gary's resiganation guys????
 
Basit Ali speaking on his YouTube Channel:

"The story started when Mohammad Rizwan was named Pakistan's new white-ball captain. Kirsten wanted a different captain and demanded another player in the team. Coincidently, both of them are not in the team. He was thinking that maybe he could have full authority. However, he doesn't know that in Pakistan, even the PCB chairman can get changed overnight."

“Mohsin Naqvi has come with a lot of power. The coaches, selectors and managers are being removed. Earlier, the chairman used to be changed from time to time. Now, whoever raises their voice will be sidelined."
 
BouncerGuy said:
Basit Ali speaking on his YouTube Channel:

"The story started when Mohammad Rizwan was named Pakistan's new white-ball captain. Kirsten wanted a different captain and demanded another player in the team. Coincidently, both of them are not in the team. He was thinking that maybe he could have full authority. However, he doesn't know that in Pakistan, even the PCB chairman can get changed overnight."

“Mohsin Naqvi has come with a lot of power. The coaches, selectors and managers are being removed. Earlier, the chairman used to be changed from time to time. Now, whoever raises their voice will be sidelined."
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So Gary wanted Fakhar Zaman as captain and also Mohd Haris in the team instead of Rizwan..
 
My allegations that Kirsten is a lot older than 56 are confirmed to be true. Advocating for a rubbish hack like Haris is not the working of a sound mind. He has clearly gone senile.

Haris struggled in the Emerging Asia Cup (SR of 128) in spite of being a seasoned international cricketer says everything that needs to be said about his caliber as a cricketer.

He is not half the cricketer Rizwan is in any format. Perhaps he would be more useful in T10 or Hong Kong Sixes, but that is it. Too bad they are not international formats.
 
Mamoon said:
My allegations that Kirsten is a lot older than 56 are confirmed to be true. Advocating for a rubbish hack like Haris is not the working of a sound mind. He has clearly gone senile.

Haris struggled in the Emerging Asia Cup (SR of 128) in spite of being a seasoned international cricketer says everything that needs to be said about his caliber as a cricketer.

He is not half the cricketer Rizwan is in any format. Perhaps he would be more useful in T10 or Hong Kong Sixes, but that is it. Too bad they are not international formats.
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Hope you stick to this drivel when Javed Afridi appoints Harris as Peshawar Zalmi captain.
 
If it is true that Kirsten wanted Haris as captain then good thing we sacked him.
 
Mamoon said:
My allegations that Kirsten is a lot older than 56 are confirmed to be true. Advocating for a rubbish hack like Haris is not the working of a sound mind. He has clearly gone senile.

Haris struggled in the Emerging Asia Cup (SR of 128) in spite of being a seasoned international cricketer says everything that needs to be said about his caliber as a cricketer.

He is not half the cricketer Rizwan is in any format. Perhaps he would be more useful in T10 or Hong Kong Sixes, but that is it. Too bad they are not international formats.
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Sadly sticking with the status quo that has not won anything in T20 cricket across multiple cycles while also taking the team to new lows with defeats against associates is probably a sign of insanity too.

Our cricket is in a tough place at the moment
 
These Gary Kirsten threads clearly show the desperate brown nosery of Pakistani's in general where they will blindly believe a gora and let them walk over them just because of the skin colour.

It is pretty clear Kirsten was not fully committed to his Pakistani role and thought he could treat it as a part time gig with full powers and authority. PCB took his selection powers after he did not meet his end of the bargain i.e. spend time in Pakistan, checking the players in domestic cricket, academies and the PCB rightfully told him how can you select the players when you haven't put in the time, effort to understand the players and work on them in the circuit. Then Kirsten started throwing demands on wanting his own expensive foreign staff where the contract he signed with the PCB stated that he would help the PCB develop the local coaches and staff.

Plus lets be honest, Kirsten's selections were far from impressive, he was against resting Babar and some other senior players for the tour of Zimbabwe, he apparently wanted Mohd Haris as the captain in the T-20 format.

Very good on the PCB for telling him to take a hike once they figured he is not taking the job seriously.
 
Mamoon said:
My allegations that Kirsten is a lot older than 56 are confirmed to be true. Advocating for a rubbish hack like Haris is not the working of a sound mind. He has clearly gone senile.

Haris struggled in the Emerging Asia Cup (SR of 128) in spite of being a seasoned international cricketer says everything that needs to be said about his caliber as a cricketer.

He is not half the cricketer Rizwan is in any format. Perhaps he would be more useful in T10 or Hong Kong Sixes, but that is it. Too bad they are not international formats.
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Shocking really if he advocated for the tulla Haris. One of the worst cricketers ever to wear Pak shirt
 
Kirsten also strongly demanded Shadab's inclusion in the ODI and T20 squad in Australia, Zimbabwe even though Shadab's form in the last one plus year clearly shows he desperately needs to play a few seasons of redball cricket.

The PCB have correctly identified that these foreign coaches don't have the stomach to make tough calls and are going out of their way to please, pacify the senior players in the team. Better to have an independent empowered selection committee to make the tough calls
 
Given the persistent failures of our T20 side and the low value attached to bilateral T20 cricket I'd have no issues with Harris over Rizwan.

Rizwan would be the automatic pick for test cricket.

In T20 in the grand scheme of things Harris 5(3) is just as impactful as Rizwans 50(42).

Let's see if Harris can live up to his potential and perhaps get some scores of 50 (20).

We are aware of Rizwans capabilities and potential already. We literally lose nothing trying someone else so far away from the next T20 WC.
 
Rana said:
Hope you stick to this drivel when Javed Afridi appoints Harris as Peshawar Zalmi captain.
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What drivel? We all know that if Rizwan were to have a SR of 127 in an Emerging Asia Cup, there would be 5 threads on this forum and you would be all over the place like a rash.

Clearly, his embarrassing performance in a tournament that was mainly composed of rookies didn’t support the BS narrative that he is some dynamite batsmen who is being mistreated because of Rizwan. He is pathetic.

Scores as slowly as Rizwan but scores less than 10% the runs that he does.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Sadly sticking with the status quo that has not won anything in T20 cricket across multiple cycles while also taking the team to new lows with defeats against associates is probably a sign of insanity too.

Our cricket is in a tough place at the moment
Click to expand...
It is fine to try something new. There is no harm in shaking things up. However, it should be done with reason and logic.

Haris is a monumental failure who has not only failed to score runs in international cricket but he has also been slow as a turtle. In addition, scoring at a SR of 127 in the Emerging Cup was not exactly an advertisement of his hitting ability.

He is a seasoned international player and was competing vs rookies and he embarrassed himself. It is clearly a myth that he is more aggressive than Rizwan. He is equally slow but also scores nothing.

People can criticize Rizwan all they want but the reality is that he has no competition whatsoever. He is by far the best WK batsman across all formats in Pakistan right now and it is not even close. The competition: Sarfaraz, Harris, Azam, Haseebullah etc. is laughable.
 
Former PCB chairman Ramiz Raja shared thoughts on shocking departure of Gary Kirsten:

"When you search for international coaches, with the kind of backlash that you will probably get from Gary Kirsten's resignation...it's not going to be an easy, straightforward job for Pakistan to hire international talent,"

"What you need to do is to make sure that once you involve and engage somebody, you've got to give them clarity regarding the role."

"I don't know whether that clarity was given to Gary Kirsten or how he wanted to get Pakistan into this one-day phase, what he wanted to achieve. I'm not privy to that."

"It's not great news [Kirsten's departure] because Pakistan needed an experienced hand. From a distance, it doesn't look great just before a tour."
 
"What you need to do is to make sure that once you involve and engage somebody, you've got to give them clarity regarding the role."
Click to expand...
The coaches should also understand that, different country, different culture, different roles. How one works in Team A may not be possible for Team B due to cultural and structural and organizational differences.
 
Mamoon said:
My allegations that Kirsten is a lot older than 56 are confirmed to be true. Advocating for a rubbish hack like Haris is not the working of a sound mind. He has clearly gone senile.

Haris struggled in the Emerging Asia Cup (SR of 128) in spite of being a seasoned international cricketer says everything that needs to be said about his caliber as a cricketer.

He is not half the cricketer Rizwan is in any format. Perhaps he would be more useful in T10 or Hong Kong Sixes, but that is it. Too bad they are not international formats.
Click to expand...
Haris is also a motor mouth. Not captaincy material.
 
Rana said:
Why don’t you argue Gary Kirsten is basically Rana or is reading too much Rana from PP
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Yeah I would strongly advise all cricket professionals to read your posts and do the opposite of your recommendations.
 
Savak said:
Kirsten also strongly demanded Shadab's inclusion in the ODI and T20 squad in Australia, Zimbabwe even though Shadab's form in the last one plus year clearly shows he desperately needs to play a few seasons of redball cricket.

The PCB have correctly identified that these foreign coaches don't have the stomach to make tough calls and are going out of their way to please, pacify the senior players in the team. Better to have an independent empowered selection committee to make the tough calls
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What are the sources for these? I want to believe this and go with this but I've struggled to find the source of this info
 
gazza619 said:
Previously wanting Azam Khan badly. Now wanting M Haris badly. Wanting Asif Ali badly as captain.

Buddy ulta chor kotwal to daante
Click to expand...
Shareef Banda hai iss liye bakhsh deta hoon.

Chal koi na
 
Itachi said:
The coaches should also understand that, different country, different culture, different roles. How one works in Team A may not be possible for Team B due to cultural and structural and organizational differences.
Click to expand...
Good coaches do adapt but they are brought in to incalculate their methods to the locals, otherwise you just employ the locals
 
Mamoon said:
There is a special place in Hell for people who support the following players:

Amir, Sharjeel, Imad, Azam Khan, Haris
Click to expand...
Well that makes it 99% of pakpassion posters.

See you all in hell everybody
 
Savak said:
Kirsten also strongly demanded Shadab's inclusion in the ODI and T20 squad in Australia, Zimbabwe even though Shadab's form in the last one plus year clearly shows he desperately needs to play a few seasons of redball cricket.

The PCB have correctly identified that these foreign coaches don't have the stomach to make tough calls and are going out of their way to please, pacify the senior players in the team. Better to have an independent empowered selection committee to make the tough calls
Click to expand...

As soon as I heard of his persistence for Shadab and M Harris I got it. Poor judgement. Judgement of someone who didn't bother to learn the landscape and is appeasing saya corp for some brownie points.

We know M.Harris is a hack and Shadab can't bat or bowl. These type of coaches would end up bringing back M.Nawaz eventually :ROFLMAO:
 
Former Pakistan cricketer Basit Ali has scathingly attacked PCB chief Mohsin Naqvi and claimed that Kirsten left the position because he raised his voice about something that was not going right, he said:

"Mohsin Naqvi has come with a lot of power. The coaches, selectors and managers are being removed. Earlier, the chairman used to be changed from time to time. Now, whoever raises their voice will be sidelined,"

"The story started when Mohammad Rizwan was named Pakistan's new white-ball captain. Kirsten wanted a different captain and demanded another player in the team. Coincidently, both of them are not in the team. He was thinking that maybe he could have full authority. However, he doesn't know that in Pakistan, even the PCB chairman can get changed overnight,"
 
Cricket Warrior said:
Former Pakistan cricketer Basit Ali has scathingly attacked PCB chief Mohsin Naqvi and claimed that Kirsten left the position because he raised his voice about something that was not going right, he said:

"Mohsin Naqvi has come with a lot of power. The coaches, selectors and managers are being removed. Earlier, the chairman used to be changed from time to time. Now, whoever raises their voice will be sidelined,"

"The story started when Mohammad Rizwan was named Pakistan's new white-ball captain. Kirsten wanted a different captain and demanded another player in the team. Coincidently, both of them are not in the team. He was thinking that maybe he could have full authority. However, he doesn't know that in Pakistan, even the PCB chairman can get changed overnight,"
Click to expand...
But but but Kirsten gave Rizwan Aashirwaad of captaincy?
 
Mamoon said:
My allegations that Kirsten is a lot older than 56 are confirmed to be true. Advocating for a rubbish hack like Haris is not the working of a sound mind. He has clearly gone senile.

Haris struggled in the Emerging Asia Cup (SR of 128) in spite of being a seasoned international cricketer says everything that needs to be said about his caliber as a cricketer.

He is not half the cricketer Rizwan is in any format. Perhaps he would be more useful in T10 or Hong Kong Sixes, but that is it. Too bad they are not international formats.
Click to expand...
Gary Kristen is older then 56 because he recommended Haris? What sort of logic is that?
 
Mamoon said:
I can assure that you if that Super Over was bowled by Hassan Ali or Shaheen, the narrative would have been different and those two would have been crucified. However, since it was Amir and a lot of people advocated for his return because of his so-called intelligence and ability to handle pressure, people are looking to deflect the blame, e.g. @emranabbas.

We also know what Amir would have said if he was on TV and some other bowlers conceded 19 vs the USA including 3 wides. He would have ripped him to shreds.

It is the worst Super Over of all time due to multiple reasons: yes it is not the most runs ever conceded in a Super Over, but it happened in an actual World Cup unlike other 20+ runs Super Overs that happened in bilateral or World Cup qualifiers like WI vs NED etc.

Also, I’m not sure if we have ever seen 3+ wides in a Super Over. That must be some sort of a record as well but I would be interested to see the actual statistics for this if they exist.

So not only did Amir bowl the most awful Super Over we have ever seen in an actual World Cup, he did it vs a proper minnow/associate team like USA, which makes it the worst Super Over of all time.

Furthermore, none of the other Super Overs were bowled by bowlers who are hailed for their strong mentality and ability to keep their cool under pressure. Amir enjoyed the reputation of being a big moment player but that reputation has been destroyed forever because he will never get a chance to compensate for this since he is not playing for Pakistan again.

Basically, Amir came back only to disgrace himself and bowl the worst Super Over ever. I guess you can call it karma for the amount of toxic criticism that he dished out while on TV.

I can guarantee you that had Babar given someone else the Super Over and he would have done what Amir did, the fans would have claimed that Amir would have won the match for Pakistan if he was given the Super Over and Babar had a personal grudge with him which is why he didn’t give him the ball etc.

Not a single Amir fan would have entertained the possibility that Amir would have conceded 19 runs including 3 wides in a Super Over vs the USA. Not in their wildest dreams.

As far as Iftikhar is concerned, look he might have failed a million Super Overs prior to this one, but we don’t know what he would have done in this situation if the target was lower. History and statistics don’t guarantee anything. History and statistics also show that Amir should not be conceding 19 runs with 3 wides in a Super Over vs USA but it happened anyway.

Maybe Iftikhar would have fluked it this turn and got lucky for once or maybe not. We don’t know, because it is hypothetical.

There is a huge difference been chasing 10-12 in a Super Over as opposed to 20 because that leaves you with no margin of error and every single ball has to go to the boundary. Iftikhars and others didn’t cover themselves in glory either but it was done & dusted after the Amir’s over and he deserves to be singled out for that defeat and his fans should accept it and move on instead of deflecting it by blaming XYZ players and coming up with hypothetical situations.

The USA defeat is 100% on Amir. That doesn’t mean that others played well. They didn’t, but the sequence of events make it clear and obvious that Amir lost Pakistan the match.
Click to expand...
I agree it was one of the worst Super over ever.. It is literally 16 + 3 runs of 9 balls vs the target 20 runs off 6 balls.

That Oracle Engineer bowled a very good Super Over compared to Amir...

Having said that all Haris to give away a boundary of the last ball when the mid off was up and the ball he bowled is simply ridiculous , very simple basics of cricket and he still goes on a free run without playing FC cricket and keep getting selected for both ODI and T2Os in Aus and Zimbabwe...
 
Mamoon said:
My allegations that Kirsten is a lot older than 56 are confirmed to be true. Advocating for a rubbish hack like Haris is not the working of a sound mind. He has clearly gone senile.

Haris struggled in the Emerging Asia Cup (SR of 128) in spite of being a seasoned international cricketer says everything that needs to be said about his caliber as a cricketer.

He is not half the cricketer Rizwan is in any format. Perhaps he would be more useful in T10 or Hong Kong Sixes, but that is it. Too bad they are not international formats.
Click to expand...
Simply where is the proof that he asked for Haris as captain..

The chances of Kirsten meeting Haris is simply zero and Kirsten is not a fool to ask for someone as captain that he didnt even met or worked with him atleast 1 match lol.. , now anything can be said to back the claim he wanted Haris to be true which is false and baseless in the first place.

If this was indeed true that he wanted Haris as captain , then probably Kirsten caught with his age and gone nuts and wreaking havoc to Pakistan , so good riddance.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Has Gary come forth with his version of events yet ?
Click to expand...
Nothing yet it’s just PCB media tout feeding lite to protect Sethi and his goons from this PR disaster it’s simple Gary did not accept this ridiculous suggestion that he’s just a match day coach while Aaqib and his pals will handpick playing XI for him no self respecting coach will accept it let alone a World Cup winning one .
 
PCB chairman Mohsin Naqvi during interaction with media at Karachi:

“He (Kirsten) broke his contract with the PCB and made some breaches. He ended the contract with us."

"We will have a new white ball head coach by the end of this month because Jason Gillispie has only agreed to manage the team in Australia for the white ball matches on an interim basis. He is more focussed on his role as red ball head coach. The team will have a new white ball coach for the Zimbabwe tour."
 
Been two days since Gary resigned and no statement from him. Why? If he is completely in the clear then why not clarify that he did not indulge in any lack of professionalism and violations of his contract.
 
Savak said:
Been two days since Gary resigned and no statement from him. Why? If he is completely in the clear then why not clarify that he did not indulge in any lack of professionalism and violations of his contract.
Click to expand...
Maybe he doesn't care about the drama. Will put out a statement when he needs to.
 
Savak said:
Been two days since Gary resigned and no statement from him. Why? If he is completely in the clear then why not clarify that he did not indulge in any lack of professionalism and violations of his contract.
Click to expand...
Maybe because he doesn’t need to give a statement?

People are not stupid. People know who lacks more professionalism, the PCB or Gary?
 
hafizexpress said:
What are the sources for these? I want to believe this and go with this but I've struggled to find the source of this info
Click to expand...

Exactly.

This is the usual muddying of issues through allegations. Meanwhile, the general public gets taken in every time, their attention gets diverted, every time.

And organisations like PCB can continue to remain as ineffective, inefficient and irrrsppnsible as they please.

It’s just a blame game now and they’re trying to get ahead.


Savak said:
Been two days since Gary resigned and no statement from him. Why? If he is completely in the clear then why not clarify that he did not indulge in any lack of professionalism and violations of his contract.
Click to expand...

I’m surprised someone who’s been around as long as you have needs to ask this question.

We don’t know Kirsten’s reasons, maybe he will make a statement in a few days, but in fact it is often professional for managers to NOT go to the press like a loose cannon.
 
Savak said:
Been two days since Gary resigned and no statement from him. Why? If he is completely in the clear then why not clarify that he did not indulge in any lack of professionalism and violations of his contract.
Click to expand...
The biggest violation of contract was PCB appointing a coach then turning around a few months later saying sorry, you now don't even have a say in selecting the XI.

Instead of leaking dubious smears to favoured journos in an obvious attempt to sway the public, they should summon up the courage and go on the record specifying these supposed violations.
 
Xoib said:
Nothing yet it’s just PCB media tout feeding lite to protect Sethi and his goons from this PR disaster it’s simple Gary did not accept this ridiculous suggestion that he’s just a match day coach while Aaqib and his pals will handpick playing XI for him no self respecting coach will accept it let alone a World Cup winning one .
Click to expand...

Markhor said:
The biggest violation of contract was PCB appointing a coach then turning around a few months later saying sorry, you now don't even have a say in selecting the XI.

Instead of leaking dubious smears to favoured journos in an obvious attempt to sway the public, they should summon up the courage and go on the record specifying these supposed violations.
Click to expand...

If the coaches are making dubious clueless selections which are resulting the team in making losses and if the coaches are not doing the bare minimum i.e. spending 10 - 11 months in the country working in the academies, with the Shaheen's, U-19 teams and domestic cricket then yes the PCB rightfully can take back the powers and leave the decisions to an independent full time selection committee.

Apparently the PCB told the coaches that if they want their vote back then they need to spend time in Pakistan which is a fair demand.
 
Savak said:
If the coaches are making dubious clueless selections which are resulting the team in making losses and if the coaches are not doing the bare minimum i.e. spending 10 - 11 months in the country working in the academies, with the Shaheen's, U-19 teams and domestic cricket then yes the PCB rightfully can take back the powers and leave the decisions to an independent full time selection committee.

Apparently the PCB told the coaches that if they want their vote back then they need to spend time in Pakistan which is a fair demand.
Click to expand...
Well that's why I'm saying PCB should come out on the record and state clearly what the terms of the contract were, and which terms Kirsten supposedly breached. Did it stipulate Kirsten needed to spend X amount of time in Pakistan ?

If facts prove me wrong then fine, but I'm guessing PCB won't do that because there were no violations to begin with, and an unprofessional boards wants to save face with the public hence why they're leaking to journalists.
 
Gary was living in a bubble and and was unaware of idiosyncrasies with Pakistan cricket, he was looking at our team with a crystall ball. His attention to detail was too much for PCB , who had their own inclinations for player selection
 
FearlessRoar said:
PCB chairman Mohsin Naqvi during interaction with media at Karachi:

“He (Kirsten) broke his contract with the PCB and made some breaches. He ended the contract with us."

"We will have a new white ball head coach by the end of this month because Jason Gillispie has only agreed to manage the team in Australia for the white ball matches on an interim basis. He is more focussed on his role as red ball head coach. The team will have a new white ball coach for the Zimbabwe tour."
Click to expand...
now would be interesting what Gary says because I m sure there is something else cooking behind the closed doors.
 
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