Pakistan growth too slow to improve living standards - World Bank

[Patriot]

Like SL? how did that turn out?

Pak might have been able to build its infrastructure w/o wrecking it economic future.

I did say in my post it’s better if you can build it yourself instead of contracting with another country. Most likely Pakistan did not have the capability if they went with China and then mismanaged it.

 

[Theanonymousone]

So if we need infrastructure, we should have asked India instead right? You haven’t answered my question. What can India offer or do better that the Chinese can’t. Who else is Pakistan going to go for this other than the Chinese? There is a reason a lot of countries go to China and not India for infrastructure projects.

If India joins the bid, the competition is always beneficial for the project developments. There are many instances where the Chinese have quoter enormous amounts for infrastructure projects and the foreign governments have accepted because of election mandates (Just to show people investments, development is happening but in reality its just the debt increasing without actual utility).

If actually do get to project viability, many of the Chinese foreign investments have to meet their own industrial capacities rather than for the benefit of the countries. India has put tax barriers on import of steel / EV batteries, else the Chinese would have decimated our market. The same with the US.

At the current, I really doubt the probability of infrastructure projects in CPEC being economically beneficial for Pakistan. Its basically a inter-continental trade route initiative and the world is not the same anymore compared to past 5 years. We are increasing moving towards decentralized supply-chains with protectionist policies from the West and the volumes through the trade-routes wont the be the same as expected.

Pakistan has indeed made bad deals with either China or Pakistan without proper negotiations.

 

[Devadwal]

Clearly you don’t know anything about economics.

Clearly I know that's why Pakistan has become failed State while India economy is booming.

 

[BouncerGuy]

GUYS, WATCH YOUR POSTS

 

[Devadwal]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1982751272139960421

 

[Rajdeep]

If Indians were to disappear from this forum we’d have plenty of time to talk about Pakistan by itself.

Doesn’t make sense to discuss about your country’s wellbeing with those that want it wiped out of existence, does it?

Lol classic case of pot calling the kettle black. If 90% of threads are about India, you cant expect Indian posters to disappear. If there are umpteen threads on Modi, India, Hindus...even on the minutest of things like someones pet dog getting stolen in Uttar Pradesh, ofcoursr Indians will respond. Your rant will only have any meaning if Indians here poking their noses in Pak political threads or internal matter. I dont see that happening.

 

[Rajdeep]

To add some more context (not like it’s needed):

We have an OP who jumps up and down and has been for months whether it’s a train crash in Balochistan, the prospect of civilians running out of water due to the Indus Water treaty halt, and many many other posts of jubilation over trials and tribulations of Pakistan and Pakistanis.

Then 2 more Indians who have posted in this thread so far one of whom on record has posted an entire manifesto on here on how he would go about poisoning and killing Pakistani citizens and how he had gone out of his way to sabotage Pakistanis he met abroad in any way he could.

And another Indian who on record has said the world would be a better place without Muslims in it…

So this is who we’re going to discuss about the growth and wellbeing of the Islamic republic of Pakistan…. Wow… I do wonder why majority of Pakistanis are keeping a pedestrian distance from this thread, eh?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Clearly I know that's why Pakistan has become failed State while India economy is booming.

If Indian economy is booming, you would think their citizens would be happy and not spend 24 hours a day posting hatred on failed state forums. Think about it. Would a mentally healthy person spend all his time in a psychiatric ward by choice?

 

[Devadwal]

If Indian economy is booming, you would think their citizens would be happy and not spend 24 hours a day posting hatred on failed state forums. Think about it. Would a mentally healthy person spend all his time in a psychiatric ward by choice?

This is open discussion forum ,what does this have to do with economy? Are you alright ?

 

[BouncerGuy]

This is open discussion forum ,what does this have to do with economy? Are you alright ?

Brother, the thread’s about economic growth and living standards. If that’s not economy, then I’m not sure what is. Blink twice if you opened the wrong tab

 

[Devadwal]

Brother, the thread’s about economic growth and living standards. If that’s not economy, then I’m not sure what is. Blink twice if you opened the wrong tab

I don't think you get my point. I'm talking about PP , I'm discussing on PP has nothing to do with india / Pakistan economy and this was questions of @Cpt. Rishwat .

 

[Patriot]

If Indian economy is booming, you would think their citizens would be happy and not spend 24 hours a day posting hatred on failed state forums. Think about it. Would a mentally healthy person spend all his time in a psychiatric ward by choice?

There is a certain addiction in debating online with people you don’t know and the need to win a debate or be right always. It’s why we all do it.

These discussions don’t really lead anywhere other than massaging egos.

 

[HalBass9]

Indians are still repeating early 2000’s talking point, “China”?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I don't think you get my point. I'm talking about PP , I'm discussing on PP has nothing to do with india / Pakistan economy and this was questions of @Cpt. Rishwat .

You said Indian economy is booming but that doesn't explain why Indians are the world's biggest immigrant community, and no one wants to go there in return. The Gulf countries are having to restrict foreigners from applying for visas, and despite the UK economy struggling we still don't see people from this country wanting to go to India.

The thread is not really about India, but since you poked your head up with that diamond nugget I guess the question has to be asked.

 

[Devadwal]

You said Indian economy is booming but that doesn't explain why Indians are the world's biggest immigrant community, and no one wants to go there in return. The Gulf countries are having to restrict foreigners from applying for visas, and despite the UK economy struggling we still don't see people from this country wanting to go to India.

The thread is not really about India, but since you poked your head up with that diamond nugget I guess the question has to be asked.

Chinese are also moving thats mean they are also failed state ? Lol kya logic hai

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Chinese are also moving thats mean they are also failed state ? Lol kya logic hai

China has not been described as a failed state. I believe it is far more developed than either Pakistan or India though but feel free to correct if that seems wrong.

 

[Devadwal]

China has not been described as a failed state. I believe it is far more developed than either Pakistan or India though but feel free to correct if that seems wrong.

Neither is india a failed state like Pakistan but fastest growing country in the World so your point . Sp your own statement os wrong.

 

[Buffet]

Slightly older data and I have shared it many times,





Just to put it in perspective, out of school % of primary school kids for all south Asian countries,

Pakistan - 24%
Nepal - 5%
BD - 5%
Ind - 2%
SL - 1%

Around 10% of the world’s out of school children are Pakistani.​

-----------------------

No one has any control over where they are born and all kids have huge potential, but focus on education can lift civilization. If 25-30% of kids are out of school( percentage is actually higher because its after including kids going to religious schools) then it's going to be a huge drag on economic growth.

Pakistan's main problems are two,

1. Education. Yes, it's only primary aged kids data but it starts from here.
2. Army controlling everything to benefit them instead of benefitting 250M people living there.

Fix these two things and country will take off. Some may feel that it's a lost case, I disagree. One decade of focused effort and things will look much better. With educated population, productivity will be far higher. Without army controlling the country, policies can be focused on what's best of 250M population rather than what's best for army.

 

[Buffet]

25 Most Illiterate Countries

Literacy rates in 25 countries remain low, with challenges like poverty, inadequate resources, and geographic barriers impacting education systems worldwide.

www.worldatlas.com

----------------------------

Some one may wrongly jump to conclusion that being among the 25 most illiterate is the biggest issue. For me, it's past. Bigger problem - it's not getting fixed as evident in data for out of school primary aged school kids. If kids are in school, then this map won't have Pakistan in it after 10 years.

 

[Devadwal]

Slightly older data and I have shared it many times,

View attachment 159176



Just to put it in perspective, out of school % of primary school kids for all south Asian countries,

Pakistan - 24%
Nepal - 5%
BD - 5%
Ind - 2%
SL - 1%

Around 10% of the world’s out of school children are Pakistani.​

-----------------------

No one has any control over where they are born and all kids have huge potential, but focus on education can lift civilization. If 25-30% of kids are out of school( percentage is actually higher because its after including kids going to religious schools) then it's going to be a huge drag on economic growth.

Pakistan's main problems are two,

1. Education. Yes, it's only primary aged kids data but it starts from here.
2. Army controlling everything to benefit them instead of benefitting 250M people living there.

Fix these two things and country will take off. Some may feel that it's a lost case, I disagree. One decade of focused effort and things will look much better. With educated population, productivity will be far higher. Without army controlling the country, policies can be focused on what's best of 250M population rather than what's best for army.

Because Pakistan young generation are already intrested to join the terrorists organisation . Few days ago a video goes viral how 10-15 years age Pakistan peoples joined JEM and call the destruction of India.

And now JEM is hiring women's to form a women's wing of Jaish-e-Mohammed ( JEM) .

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/jaish-women-wing-jamaat-e-mominaat-masood-azhars-paradise-promise-and-men-warning-to-jaish-women-recruits-9535907

 

[Buffet]

Because Pakistan young generation are already intrested to join the terrorists organisation . Few days ago a video goes viral how 10-15 years age Pakistan peoples joined JEM and call the destruction of India.

And now JEM is hiring women's to form a women's wing of Jaish-e-Mohammed ( JEM) .

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/jaish-women-wing-jamaat-e-mominaat-masood-azhars-paradise-promise-and-men-warning-to-jaish-women-recruits-9535907

An alternate universe,

You could have been born there and if you had an exact same growing enviornment then it's likely that you would have joined JEM or whatever. Not just you, it could be me.

Focusing on XYZ joining terrorist organization is focusing on wrong thing. That's a symptom, and focusing on that won't solve actual problems. If actual problems can be solved then country will take off and young foklk won't be joining terrorist organizations.

 

[Rajdeep]

Eye opening stats from @Buffet Didnt realize Pakistan is so bad across every metrics.

 

[KB]

There is a certain addiction in debating online with people you don’t know and the need to win a debate or be right always. It’s why we all do it.

These discussions don’t really lead anywhere other than massaging egos.

This is probably true in many cases but I think I there are much better ways to approach debates and discussions. Rather than treating them as battles to win, meaningful discussions should lead to something worthwhile being learned or clarified - whether that is about the issue at hand, about yourself, about the person or viewpoint you are arguing against. I really liked what Karl Popper said in this regard:

“…victory in debate is nothing, while even the slightest clarification of one’s problem - even the smallest contribution made towards a clearer understanding of one’s own position or that of one’s opponent - is a great success. A discussion which you win but which fails to help you to change or to clarify your mind at least a little should be regarded as a sheer loss….

Rational discussion…does not aim at conversion, and it is modest in its expectations: it is enough, more than enough, if we feel that we can see things in a new light or that we have got even a little nearer the truth.”

Forget about trying to win debates and focus more on intellectual humility and constructive reflection.

 

[Devadwal]

This is probably true in many cases but I think I there are much better ways to approach debates and discussions. Rather than treating them as battles to win, meaningful discussions should lead to something worthwhile being learned or clarified - whether that is about the issue at hand, about yourself, about the person or viewpoint you are arguing against. I really liked what Karl Popper said in this regard:

“…victory in debate is nothing, while even the slightest clarification of one’s problem - even the smallest contribution made towards a clearer understanding of one’s own position or that of one’s opponent - is a great success. A discussion which you win but which fails to help you to change or to clarify your mind at least a little should be regarded as a sheer loss….

Rational discussion…does not aim at conversion, and it is modest in its expectations: it is enough, more than enough, if we feel that we can see things in a new light or that we have got even a little nearer the truth.”

Forget about trying to win debates and focus more on intellectual humility and constructive reflection.

When Pakistani people use words like Sanghi, Hindutva etc., it is because the people posting have nothing to say, which I do not like and I reply to them in the same language.

I discussed a lot in a discord channel where these words are banned .

 

[Patriot]

When Pakistani people use words like Sanghi, Hindutva etc., it is because the people posting have nothing to say, which I do not like and I reply to them in the same language.

I discussed a lot in a discord channel where these words are banned .

You are the one accusing every Pakistani of being a terrorist.