Pakistan, scratchy but impressive in parts (Review of T20 Series vs England)

[fight_club]

Englishmen felt it in there bones. They were thrashed for taking it easy.

Forced to play there best combination and game, finally they were made to fight tooth and nail till the last over for a well deserved series victory but as they will not and so you must think that There were any losers.

Just two teams battling hard till the glorious end and gave us a spectacle to remember and cherish.


Make no doubt that in spite of all the shortcoming Pakistan is a force to reckon with in world T20 format. The series with World no.1 ranked team has really tested Pakistan resolve, exposed their weakness and spectacularly shown their strengths.

So, Their is a lot of positives and few negatives to look at. If Pakistan is able to fix those shortcomings they can surprise many in forthcoming World cup.


Area of Concerns:


1. Opening Combination: I know this will be a hard bit to swallow but lets try to be objective here. You don't want Babar to lose his shape and slog. Their is no denying that both Rizwan and Babar have been epitome of consistency but its also clear that both of them are not cut out to play the sledgehammer cricket which Powerplay's demands in T20.

Top teams will look to score 60 to 70 in first 6 overs and would not mind being two down. You need to Launch an offensive right from the word go Pakistan openers are not cut out for that also Babar coming 1 down will strengthen Pakistan middle order which is another achilles heel.


Middle order and hitting in 360: The most successful batsmen apart from the Babar and Rizwan has been Hafeez. Matter of fact he has been an absolute revelation breathing fire and providing Pakistan late order impetus.

Pakistan Desperately need another batter who can be relied on and someone who can play spin with ease. In whatever future series Pakistan will play its imperative that Pak discover its no.4 or 5.

Another area to work on is stroke play in 360 degree. We all witnessed how England batsmen were sweep in both direction to unsettle Pakistan spinners on a track which was turning square and was slow.

These batters Practice these shots a lot as they take hitting the ball as an art form. Hasan ali is a tremendous hitter but need to develop his off side play and ramp short against short Pitch stuff. This is what every batsmen has to work on.


The not so Thinking Tank: That's easy boyz. Rigid and timid approach with zero dynamism. Lack of guts to experiment and play with freedom Pakistan cricket has been held back by Poor management for ages and its high time something is done about it. From selection to execution the holes are gaping and embarrassing


"Shabash, boyz played well" (The positives):

1. Shadab & Imad return to form: He is Pakistan best fielder Decent batsmen and finding some rhythm in his bowling. When faced with relentless assault he managed to kept his wits and tried to spin the bowl rather then overtly relying on Variation.

Imad own place is still under threat from Nawaz but he also managed to put up a decent showing. Facing likes of Roy and Butler is a dire prospect for any spinner in the power play's but he managed to hold on his own. He is actually a better lower order Bat with nerves of steel.

2. Pace attack: Hasnain, bar one over was able to put up a very decent show and was actually the best pacer between both teams in the first T20. Shaheen was impressive in first two. He must look to work on his variation and speed

Hasan Ali the lion Hearted: If you are looking for any inspiration then Ali is the go to man. Recovering from bad form and injury he fought his way back into team doing the hard yard. This lad is lion hearted and has that X-factor to lead and inspire the impressive pace battery Pakistan possess.


Pakistan will take a lot of positives and self belief from this series. They face West Indies next which will be another test of character. Pakistan must not be afraid to experiment now and try to find solution's before the big event.


Fight_Cub​

 

[shamaan]

Englishmen felt it in there bones. They were thrashed for taking it easy.

Forced to play there best combination and game, finally they were made to fight tooth and nail till the last over for a well deserved series victory but as they will not and so you must think that There were any losers.

Just two teams battling hard till the glorious end and gave us a spectacle to remember and cherish.


Make no doubt that in spite of all the shortcoming Pakistan is a force to reckon with in world T20 format. The series with World no.1 ranked team has really tested Pakistan resolve, exposed their weakness and spectacularly shown their strengths.

So, Their is a lot of positives and few negatives to look at. If Pakistan is able to fix those shortcomings they can surprise many in forthcoming World cup.


Area of Concerns:


1. Opening Combination: I know this will be a hard bit to swallow but lets try to be objective here. You don't want Babar to lose his shape and slog. Their is no denying that both Rizwan and Babar have been epitome of consistency but its also clear that both of them are not cut out to play the sledgehammer cricket which Powerplay's demands in T20.

Top teams will look to score 60 to 70 in first 6 overs and would not mind being two down. You need to Launch an offensive right from the word go Pakistan openers are not cut out for that also Babar coming 1 down will strengthen Pakistan middle order which is another achilles heel.


Middle order and hitting in 360: The most successful batsmen apart from the Babar and Rizwan has been Hafeez. Matter of fact he has been an absolute revelation breathing fire and providing Pakistan late order impetus.

Pakistan Desperately need another batter who can be relied on and someone who can play spin with ease. In whatever future series Pakistan will play its imperative that Pak discover its no.4 or 5.

Another area to work on is stroke play in 360 degree. We all witnessed how England batsmen were sweep in both direction to unsettle Pakistan spinners on a track which was turning square and was slow.

These batters Practice these shots a lot as they take hitting the ball as an art form. Hasan ali is a tremendous hitter but need to develop his off side play and ramp short against short Pitch stuff. This is what every batsmen has to work on.


The not so Thinking Tank: That's easy boyz. Rigid and timid approach with zero dynamism. Lack of guts to experiment and play with freedom Pakistan cricket has been held back by Poor management for ages and its high time something is done about it. From selection to execution the holes are gaping and embarrassing


"Shabash, boyz played well" (The positives):

1. Shadab & Imad return to form: He is Pakistan best fielder Decent batsmen and finding some rhythm in his bowling. When faced with relentless assault he managed to kept his wits and tried to spin the bowl rather then overtly relying on Variation.

Imad own place is still under threat from Nawaz but he also managed to put up a decent showing. Facing likes of Roy and Butler is a dire prospect for any spinner in the power play's but he managed to hold on his own. He is actually a better lower order Bat with nerves of steel.

2. Pace attack: Hasnain, bar one over was able to put up a very decent show and was actually the best pacer between both teams in the first T20. Shaheen was impressive in first two. He must look to work on his variation and speed

Hasan Ali the lion Hearted: If you are looking for any inspiration then Ali is the go to man. Recovering from bad form and injury he fought his way back into team doing the hard yard. This lad is lion hearted and has that X-factor to lead and inspire the impressive pace battery Pakistan possess.


Pakistan will take a lot of positives and self belief from this series. They face West Indies next which will be another test of character. Pakistan must not be afraid to experiment now and try to find solution's before the big event.


Fight_Cub​

Top post well done.

It's fine trying to get 60 or 70 in the first six overs when you have a batting line up like England but most teams don't have depth like in England.

I agree Pakistan do not have anyone who can play the reverse consistently and that was the different in the last game.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Englishmen felt it in there bones. They were thrashed for taking it easy.

Forced to play there best combination and game, finally they were made to fight tooth and nail till the last over for a well deserved series victory but as they will not and so you must think that There were any losers.

Just two teams battling hard till the glorious end and gave us a spectacle to remember and cherish.


Make no doubt that in spite of all the shortcoming Pakistan is a force to reckon with in world T20 format. The series with World no.1 ranked team has really tested Pakistan resolve, exposed their weakness and spectacularly shown their strengths.

So, Their is a lot of positives and few negatives to look at. If Pakistan is able to fix those shortcomings they can surprise many in forthcoming World cup.


Area of Concerns:


1. Opening Combination: I know this will be a hard bit to swallow but lets try to be objective here. You don't want Babar to lose his shape and slog. Their is no denying that both Rizwan and Babar have been epitome of consistency but its also clear that both of them are not cut out to play the sledgehammer cricket which Powerplay's demands in T20.

Top teams will look to score 60 to 70 in first 6 overs and would not mind being two down. You need to Launch an offensive right from the word go Pakistan openers are not cut out for that also Babar coming 1 down will strengthen Pakistan middle order which is another achilles heel.


Middle order and hitting in 360: The most successful batsmen apart from the Babar and Rizwan has been Hafeez. Matter of fact he has been an absolute revelation breathing fire and providing Pakistan late order impetus.

Pakistan Desperately need another batter who can be relied on and someone who can play spin with ease. In whatever future series Pakistan will play its imperative that Pak discover its no.4 or 5.

Another area to work on is stroke play in 360 degree. We all witnessed how England batsmen were sweep in both direction to unsettle Pakistan spinners on a track which was turning square and was slow.

These batters Practice these shots a lot as they take hitting the ball as an art form. Hasan ali is a tremendous hitter but need to develop his off side play and ramp short against short Pitch stuff. This is what every batsmen has to work on.


The not so Thinking Tank: That's easy boyz. Rigid and timid approach with zero dynamism. Lack of guts to experiment and play with freedom Pakistan cricket has been held back by Poor management for ages and its high time something is done about it. From selection to execution the holes are gaping and embarrassing


"Shabash, boyz played well" (The positives):

1. Shadab & Imad return to form: He is Pakistan best fielder Decent batsmen and finding some rhythm in his bowling. When faced with relentless assault he managed to kept his wits and tried to spin the bowl rather then overtly relying on Variation.

Imad own place is still under threat from Nawaz but he also managed to put up a decent showing. Facing likes of Roy and Butler is a dire prospect for any spinner in the power play's but he managed to hold on his own. He is actually a better lower order Bat with nerves of steel.

2. Pace attack: Hasnain, bar one over was able to put up a very decent show and was actually the best pacer between both teams in the first T20. Shaheen was impressive in first two. He must look to work on his variation and speed

Hasan Ali the lion Hearted: If you are looking for any inspiration then Ali is the go to man. Recovering from bad form and injury he fought his way back into team doing the hard yard. This lad is lion hearted and has that X-factor to lead and inspire the impressive pace battery Pakistan possess.


Pakistan will take a lot of positives and self belief from this series. They face West Indies next which will be another test of character. Pakistan must not be afraid to experiment now and try to find solution's before the big event.


Fight_Cub​

Usually you have nice stuff for entertainment that is well dramatized but also, backed up by some good content. So thumbs up for that.

Can you reverse the switch and craft another writeup on the 0-3 drubbing where our rear end was handed over to us by England's overnight made up grade 3 team?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It is a great misconception to think every team has to play a certain way. Cricket is not a sport where a one size fits all philosophy is at all applicable. I am speaking to your comment that a sledgehammer approach is what Pakistan is missing.

No. Pakistan simply does not have players up and down the order the same way that England, India or West Indies does that can go out and play this type of cricket regardless of the situation, not worry about wickets falling and still succeed on most occasions.

Whenever Pakistan has succeeded in recent times it has usually been when both these guys have laid a solid foundation by not getting out in the powerplay and scoring big, which then allows the batsmen ahead to play freely, rather than cautiously. And considering the averages of both players it is reasonable to except that they will succeed on far more occasions than they will fail.

For Pakistan this is a rational strategy to have that is in-line with their strengths. Not the strengths of England or India or any other team, but their own.

We have seen the other approach tried countless times before and it almost always ends the same way. Pakistan gallop to 60 for 1, 2, 3 in the powerplay and then spend the rest of the innings crawling their way to 150 or 160 if someone from the middle order fires.

Not only are Rizwan and Babar the best, most consistent batsmen in the side but they (like any other great player) are also at their very best when they have gotten the measure of the pitch and are set at the crease. Then they are just as effective as any other great T20 player in the world. But that can only happen if you send them in as openers.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

On the flip side, I agree with the positives. Namely that the series was a great showing for Imad and Shadab who showed exactly why they are integral to the composition of this side.

Shadab has been in horrific form in recent months but he demonstrated the ability to step up in pressure situations and do the job. While Imad simply reminded everyone why he is one of the very best in the business in this format. Not only because he can pick up wickets or bowl with remarkable accuracy, but also because he can bowl during the most difficult time in the innings for any bowler: the powerplay and still end up with an economy rate of 6.5 or 7 on most occasions. Among Pakistani T20I bowlers (min. 30 wickets) only Ajmal has a better economy rate than him, and the difference is very marginal.

One thing I would tweak though is sending Imad above Shadab. Just because I feel Imad is much better limited-overs batsman who has the ability to go big but never seems to get enough of an opportunity to showcase that hitting ability in T20Is.

 

[fight_club]

Usually you have nice stuff for entertainment that is well dramatized but also, backed up by some good content. So thumbs up for that.

Can you reverse the switch and craft another writeup on the 0-3 drubbing where our rear end was handed over to us by England's overnight made up grade 3 team?

Thanks, I would have written about 0-3 drubbing in ODI's but I have been advised to go easy on my
bladders

 

[fight_club]

It is a great misconception to think every team has to play a certain way. Cricket is not a sport where a one size fits all philosophy is at all applicable. I am speaking to your comment that a sledgehammer approach is what Pakistan is missing.

No. Pakistan simply does not have players up and down the order the same way that England, India or West Indies does that can go out and play this type of cricket regardless of the situation, not worry about wickets falling and still succeed on most occasions.

Whenever Pakistan has succeeded in recent times it has usually been when both these guys have laid a solid foundation by not getting out in the powerplay and scoring big, which then allows the batsmen ahead to play freely, rather than cautiously. And considering the averages of both players it is reasonable to except that they will succeed on far more occasions than they will fail.

For Pakistan this is a rational strategy to have that is in-line with their strengths. Not the strengths of England or India or any other team, but their own.

We have seen the other approach tried countless times before and it almost always ends the same way. Pakistan gallop to 60 for 1, 2, 3 in the powerplay and then spend the rest of the innings crawling their way to 150 or 160 if someone from the middle order fires.

Not only are Rizwan and Babar the best, most consistent batsmen in the side but they (like any other great player) are also at their very best when they have gotten the measure of the pitch and are set at the crease. Then they are just as effective as any other great T20 player in the world. But that can only happen if you send them in as openers.

I would not deny that you have a valid point and truly stated how Pakistan goes about their T20 cricket.

Matter of fact many Correctly feel that Pakistan has finally found a stable and settled world class opening
pair and it can carry on playing whatever it can. But this approach has made this team no.4 and not in top 3 and this approach is outdone and outdated.

World doesn't play T20 like this and they see Power Play as slog overs with maximum advantage. There will be multiple occasions as clearly visible in the last T20 that These settled players will be forced to play a game which they are not comfortable with and score rapidly and they will lose their wicket creating more pressure on weak middle order.

What I am suggesting will allow both Rizwan and Babar to play there percentage cricket and bat deep while someone else can take onus of utilizing first 6 overs. Pakistan doesn't have a choice modern T20 demands it. Teams like India and England were never good at it especially Poms, but they understood requirements of White ball cricket and first got their thinking clear and then went on to build team.

Pakistan management never had a clear plan or thinking but things have fortunately fallen in place somewhat thanks to Rizwan developing into an outstanding batsmen and cricketer and Babar is already
a top bat. Pakistan has a solid base now to strengthen rest of the batting order to play around them.

What I am suggesting will ensure that at least one of these two will be able to bat deep and play their own game while aggression can be left to others.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I would not deny that you have a valid point and truly stated how Pakistan goes about their T20 cricket.

Matter of fact many Correctly feel that Pakistan has finally found a stable and settled world class opening
pair and it can carry on playing whatever it can. But this approach has made this team no.4 and not in top 3 and this approach is outdone and outdated.

World doesn't play T20 like this and they see Power Play as slog overs with maximum advantage. There will be multiple occasions as clearly visible in the last T20 that These settled players will be forced to play a game which they are not comfortable with and score rapidly and they will lose their wicket creating more pressure on weak middle order.

What I am suggesting will allow both Rizwan and Babar to play there percentage cricket and bat deep while someone else can take onus of utilizing first 6 overs. Pakistan doesn't have a choice modern T20 demands it. Teams like India and England were never good at it especially Poms, but they understood requirements of White ball cricket and first got their thinking clear and then went on to build team.

Pakistan management never had a clear plan or thinking but things have fortunately fallen in place somewhat thanks to Rizwan developing into an outstanding batsmen and cricketer and Babar is already
a top bat. Pakistan has a solid base now to strengthen rest of the batting order to play around them.

What I am suggesting will ensure that at least one of these two will be able to bat deep and play their own game while aggression can be left to others.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But I simply don't agree. One, Pakistan does not have enough players who can go out and play that brand of cricket on a consistent basis. Two, it is an inconsistent and underperforming middle order that is impeding Pakistan's progress and putting all the burden of scoring the runs on the openers.

This was not the case when Pakistan were #1. Perhaps mainly because Hafeez and Shoaib Malik were holding that middle-order really well, something people don't acknowledge enough when they talk about Pakistan's unbeaten T20 series run. While Sarfraz and the all-rounders tended to make a credible enough contribution to get Pakistan to get Pakistan to a decent score.

The problems for Pakistan now are multiple even if we just talk about the batting. Hafeez has experienced a truly remarkable dip in form from... nobody has been able to replace Shoaib Malik (who was dropped for no good reason) and the role he played in the side at 5/6...Fakhar Zaman is far too inconsistent while the revolving door of PSL/domestic darlings that has brought in the likes of Maqsood, Khushdil, Asif Ali, Talat never seems to close, primarily because none of these guys are ever able to nail down a place in the side and only add to Pakistan's batting woes rather than solving them.

The openers are the only thing that is actually working in this team. Imagine what kind of scores Pakistan would end up with on a consistent basis if the middle order just did their job.

 

[Energy]

It's a good write up but I'm not sure which series the OP was watching to say Imad and Shadab have hit form, and that there were more positives than negatives from the series.

If Imad and Shadab had hit form we would have won the series. Moeen Ali hit form and was evident in the last couple of games. Adil Rashid hit form and smashed us in the final match.

End of the day, delivering results matters. To deliver results you need to take responsibility. Nobody does that in Pakistan cricket including the coach therefore no one is liable for any damage.

 

[fight_club]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But I simply don't agree. One, Pakistan does not have enough players who can go out and play that brand of cricket on a consistent basis. Two, it is an inconsistent and underperforming middle order that is impeding Pakistan's progress and putting all the burden of scoring the runs on the openers.

This was not the case when Pakistan were #1. Perhaps mainly because Hafeez and Shoaib Malik were holding that middle-order really well, something people don't acknowledge enough when they talk about Pakistan's unbeaten T20 series run. While Sarfraz and the all-rounders tended to make a credible enough contribution to get Pakistan to get Pakistan to a decent score.

The problems for Pakistan now are multiple even if we just talk about the batting. Hafeez has experienced a truly remarkable dip in form from... nobody has been able to replace Shoaib Malik (who was dropped for no good reason) and the role he played in the side at 5/6...Fakhar Zaman is far too inconsistent while the revolving door of PSL/domestic darlings that has brought in the likes of Maqsood, Khushdil, Asif Ali, Talat never seems to close, primarily because none of these guys are ever able to nail down a place in the side and only add to Pakistan's batting woes rather than solving them.

The openers are the only thing that is actually working in this team. Imagine what kind of scores Pakistan would end up with on a consistent basis if the middle order just did their job.

I guess you are not fully comprehending the Point I am making. This rigid mindset of "Lets not change winning combination" etc does not work in all situations. Let's take a high pressure chase scenario
Would you like Pakistan losing either of them early because of playing a rash shot? I would rather send a Shoiab or Fakhar with clear instruction to exploit PP where as Rizwan and later Babar can continue to play
their natural game and bat deep.

If babar comes at no.3 How can it impact his batting he is already used to that position in ODI's. matter of fact both Rizwan and Babar increase their strike rate after power play. Pakistan is going in the most important event in a format which they love to play. They must get rid of these rigid mindset and try few things before the event.

 

[fight_club]

It's a good write up but I'm not sure which series the OP was watching to say Imad and Shadab have hit form, and that there were more positives than negatives from the series.

If Imad and Shadab had hit form we would have won the series. Moeen Ali hit form and was evident in the last couple of games. Adil Rashid hit form and smashed us in the final match.

End of the day, delivering results matters. To deliver results you need to take responsibility. Nobody does that in Pakistan cricket including the coach therefore no one is liable for any damage.

Thanks, My point of view is that both of them have been coming back into the team after a long layoff.
I am not talking about winning and losing but simply stating the fact that their performance against no.1
side has been encouraging.

I agree with your point that Pakistan lost against a top opposition and has few things to work on but shadab and Imad performance is least of the headache.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I guess you are not fully comprehending the Point I am making. This rigid mindset of "Lets not change winning combination" etc does not work in all situations. Let's take a high pressure chase scenario
Would you like Pakistan losing either of them early because of playing a rash shot? I would rather send a Shoiab or Fakhar with clear instruction to exploit PP where as Rizwan and later Babar can continue to play
their natural game and bat deep.

If babar comes at no.3 How can it impact his batting he is already used to that position in ODI's. matter of fact both Rizwan and Babar increase their strike rate after power play. Pakistan is going in the most important event in a format which they love to play. They must get rid of these rigid mindset and try few things before the event.

Why are you automatically assuming that both players will play the same way regardless of the situation? They are world-class players and you expect them to step up regardless of the situation. Hoping for the worst is a futile exercise because in this game anything can happen in any given time. What's to say Babar won't get out first ball at No.3? You can't think like that, you have to fully back the strengths of your best players. And sending both as openers is best way to utilize both.

The question you asked, of a high pressure chase scenario, well it has already played out infront of our eyes about three months ago. When Pakistan were chasing 204 against South Africa. Pakistan had never chased 200+ in their T20I history up till that point. And these two made a literal mockery of the run-chase by putting on 197 for the first wicket. 3 months later they put on 150 for the first wicket and helped Pakistan register their highest ever T20 total. Add to that another century stand which adds up to 3 century stands in just 12 innings together. That is remarkable amount of success considering the short period of time both have spent as opening partners and their success as openers is certainly unparalleled in Pakistan's T20I history. On top of that, two of their biggest partnerships have delivered big wins for Pakistan which shows just how impactful the combination is.

I am also fairly certain that they will deliver more such partnerships in the future. And if the middle order just starts pulling its weight Pakistan will be posting big totals more consistently.

 

[shamaan]

On the flip side, I agree with the positives. Namely that the series was a great showing for Imad and Shadab who showed exactly why they are integral to the composition of this side.

Shadab has been in horrific form in recent months but he demonstrated the ability to step up in pressure situations and do the job. While Imad simply reminded everyone why he is one of the very best in the business in this format. Not only because he can pick up wickets or bowl with remarkable accuracy, but also because he can bowl during the most difficult time in the innings for any bowler: the powerplay and still end up with an economy rate of 6.5 or 7 on most occasions. Among Pakistani T20I bowlers (min. 30 wickets) only Ajmal has a better economy rate than him, and the difference is very marginal.

One thing I would tweak though is sending Imad above Shadab. Just because I feel Imad is much better limited-overs batsman who has the ability to go big but never seems to get enough of an opportunity to showcase that hitting ability in T20Is.

Definitely imad should come in ahead of shadab at the death he has the ball striking ability

 

[shamaan]

I guess you are not fully comprehending the Point I am making. This rigid mindset of "Lets not change winning combination" etc does not work in all situations. Let's take a high pressure chase scenario
Would you like Pakistan losing either of them early because of playing a rash shot? I would rather send a Shoiab or Fakhar with clear instruction to exploit PP where as Rizwan and later Babar can continue to play
their natural game and bat deep.

If babar comes at no.3 How can it impact his batting he is already used to that position in ODI's. matter of fact both Rizwan and Babar increase their strike rate after power play. Pakistan is going in the most important event in a format which they love to play. They must get rid of these rigid mindset and try few things before the event.

I think they should try sharjeel in the opening slot I am not a big fan of him but they have to try different combinations for the West Indies series.But Babar and Rizwan would be my choice openers come the world cup

 

[MenInG]

Wasim Khan pointing out the positives from recent tours/series in his interview with PakPassion.net

PakPassion.net: What positives do you see from the Pakistan cricket team’s recent performances?

Wasim Khan: The positives for us have been the re-emergence of Hassan Ali who has come back fitter, stronger and a better player, whilst Mohammad Rizwan’s continuing consistency across all formats has been exceptional. We are also pleased with Shaheen Shah Afridi who has been performing consistently in all three formats whilst Babar Azam just goes on and on. He might go through a lean patch once in a while, but he always comes back stronger and better. Usman Qadir will get more opportunities to play, and I think he’s a very exciting prospect for us. We have Mohammad Hasnain who will only get better and he’s becoming a far more intelligent bowler now. I’m sure Haider Ali will come back in the future better and stronger as a human being and as a player so there’s much to be enthusiastic about and be positive about.

Yes, some of the results haven’t been great but we have beaten South Africa in a Test series at home and won the T20I series and then we went to South Africa and won the ODI and T20I series. So, there’s a number of things for us to celebrate, but we just have to tinker a bit more and become consistent in our approach and our attitude and I am sure that the good performances will follow.

 

[fight_club]

Why are you automatically assuming that both players will play the same way regardless of the situation? They are world-class players and you expect them to step up regardless of the situation. Hoping for the worst is a futile exercise because in this game anything can happen in any given time. What's to say Babar won't get out first ball at No.3? You can't think like that, you have to fully back the strengths of your best players. And sending both as openers is best way to utilize both.

The question you asked, of a high pressure chase scenario, well it has already played out infront of our eyes about three months ago. When Pakistan were chasing 204 against South Africa. Pakistan had never chased 200+ in their T20I history up till that point. And these two made a literal mockery of the run-chase by putting on 197 for the first wicket. 3 months later they put on 150 for the first wicket and helped Pakistan register their highest ever T20 total. Add to that another century stand which adds up to 3 century stands in just 12 innings together. That is remarkable amount of success considering the short period of time both have spent as opening partners and their success as openers is certainly unparalleled in Pakistan's T20I history. On top of that, two of their biggest partnerships have delivered big wins for Pakistan which shows just how impactful the combination is.

I am also fairly certain that they will deliver more such partnerships in the future. And if the middle order just starts pulling its weight Pakistan will be posting big totals more consistently.

We know the game you are referring to was played on a complete flat deck with a depleted bowling attack you will also agree that chasing in a World Cup is what I am referring to as a "High pressure chase"
I will rest my case with few points to chew on:

1. Agreed both Rizwan and Babar are world class but even you will agree that they
are not cut out for sledge hammer impact cricket or high strike rate usually

2. Imagine India vs Pakistan in T20 WC and Pakistan chasing. Would't losing either of them early playing rash shots can demoralize already a week middle order.

3. If one of them come at no.3 wouldn't it strengthen Pakistan Floundering Middle order but still allow them to make significant contribution in the match

Once Again, I would reiterate that it's in best Interest of Pakistan to Try few things before WC or they might panic in the big event

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

We know the game you are referring to was played on a complete flat deck with a depleted bowling attack you will also agree that chasing in a World Cup is what I am referring to as a "High pressure chase"
I will rest my case with few points to chew on:

1. Agreed both Rizwan and Babar are world class but even you will agree that they
are not cut out for sledge hammer impact cricket or high strike rate usually

2. Imagine India vs Pakistan in T20 WC and Pakistan chasing. Would't losing either of them early playing rash shots can demoralize already a week middle order.

3. If one of them come at no.3 wouldn't it strengthen Pakistan Floundering Middle order but still allow them to make significant contribution in the match

Once Again, I would reiterate that it's in best Interest of Pakistan to Try few things before WC or they might panic in the big event

Chasing 200 in a T20 against any team is no a joke. But to make a mockery of it is even more impressive.

At this point you're resorting to whataboutery and dealing in hypotheticals. "Imagine if", "what if", why not focus on the reality and what is infront of you, instead dvocating tinkering with something that is not just working well, but exceptionally well. I gave you undisputable facts about the success of their partnership that you completely ignored and all you can come up with in response is that they are not cut out for the sledge hammer approach?

What was the approach adopted by them the other day then? When they helped Pakistan smash 232? Is a SR of 173 from Babar not demonstrative of a "sledge-hammer approach"?

Is Rizwan's SR of 140 this year (higher than Jos Buttler's SR this year) too slow?

If you want latch on to your biases and perceptions than go for it. But don't try to act like what your saying has any actual basis in reality or is actually even in Pakistan's best interests.

 

[fight_club]

Chasing 200 in a T20 against any team is no a joke. But to make a mockery of it is even more impressive.

At this point you're resorting to whataboutery and dealing in hypotheticals. "Imagine if", "what if", why not focus on the reality and what is infront of you, instead dvocating tinkering with something that is not just working well, but exceptionally well. I gave you undisputable facts about the success of their partnership that you completely ignored and all you can come up with in response is that they are not cut out for the sledge hammer approach?

What was the approach adopted by them the other day then? When they helped Pakistan smash 232? Is a SR of 173 from Babar not demonstrative of a "sledge-hammer approach"?

Is Rizwan's SR of 140 this year (higher than Jos Buttler's SR this year) too slow?

If you want latch on to your biases and perceptions than go for it. But don't try to act like what your saying has any actual basis in reality or is actually even in Pakistan's best interests.

So, far I was discussing with you as I thought you are putting your points objectively and have some
substance but your last post is surprisingly devoid of that.

Would you please point towards any single statement of word which show any bias or perception?? don't know where did that come so let me see whether you can come with some substance to few pointers

1. Please don't quote a sample size of 1 match to justify your point. Look at Pakistan overall record
while chasing a recent case was against lowly Zimbabwe where Pakistan failed to chase 120 odd with
with same set of openers. However unlike you I would not base my entire thesis on just one odd match
or performance

2. Please dig up stats and post here as to what is the strike rate of This opening pair on an average
and what is the average score Pakistan post in Powerplay.

3. Please tell me why should not exploiting first 6 overs of Powperplay with only two fielders outside
the circle is in best of Pakistan interest

4. Please tell me how having an opener who can actually take sledgehammer role right from the start
giving better run rate and less stress on these world class batsmen will hurt Pakistan interest.
Would't you like to see some panic in opposition or them under hammer and have to resort to
plan B can hurt Pakistan interest

Please don't get into name calling etc. its a clear sign of lack of argument. I have enjoyed your posts
so far so I will expect you to counter with some substance.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Chasing 200 in a T20 against any team is no a joke. But to make a mockery of it is even more impressive.

At this point you're resorting to whataboutery and dealing in hypotheticals. "Imagine if", "what if", why not focus on the reality and what is infront of you, instead dvocating tinkering with something that is not just working well, but exceptionally well. I gave you undisputable facts about the success of their partnership that you completely ignored and all you can come up with in response is that they are not cut out for the sledge hammer approach?

What was the approach adopted by them the other day then? When they helped Pakistan smash 232? Is a SR of 173 from Babar not demonstrative of a "sledge-hammer approach"?

Is Rizwan's SR of 140 this year (higher than Jos Buttler's SR this year) too slow?

If you want latch on to your biases and perceptions than go for it. But don't try to act like what your saying has any actual basis in reality or is actually even in Pakistan's best interests.

Actually what he's suggesting has some logic. Pakistan's middle order is prone to collapsing so the idea I would presume would be to have someone who is less prone to panic in the second half of the innings.

A hitter such as Sharjeel for example, can often win a match if he opens as the restricted field setting in the power overs gives him better odds. I think Fakhar seems to be struggling since he moved down the order as well.

You might be right on all your points, but his view is not that outrageous.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

So, far I was discussing with you as I thought you are putting your points objectively and have some
substance but your last post is surprisingly devoid of that.

Would you please point towards any single statement of word which show any bias or perception?? don't know where did that come so let me see whether you can come with some substance to few pointers

1. Please don't quote a sample size of 1 match to justify your point. Look at Pakistan overall record
while chasing a recent case was against lowly Zimbabwe where Pakistan failed to chase 120 odd with
with same set of openers. However unlike you I would not base my entire thesis on just one odd match
or performance

2. Please dig up stats and post here as to what is the strike rate of This opening pair on an average
and what is the average score Pakistan post in Powerplay.

3. Please tell me why should not exploiting first 6 overs of Powperplay with only two fielders outside
the circle is in best of Pakistan interest

4. Please tell me how having an opener who can actually take sledgehammer role right from the start
giving better run rate and less stress on these world class batsmen will hurt Pakistan interest.
Would't you like to see some panic in opposition or them under hammer and have to resort to
plan B can hurt Pakistan interest

Please don't get into name calling etc. its a clear sign of lack of argument. I have enjoyed your posts
so far so I will expect you to counter with some substance.

Unlike you, I quoted multiple facts. Whereas you quoted none. Your entire post is based on a hypothetical idea that exists in your mind only. Actual ground realities are contrary to that. Nevertheless I will try my best to dispel any misconceptions you may have regarding my comments.


1. Please don't quote a sample size of 1 match to justify your point. Look at Pakistan overall record
while chasing a recent case was against lowly Zimbabwe where Pakistan failed to chase 120 odd with
with same set of openers. However unlike you I would not base my entire thesis on just one odd match
or performance

If you bothered to read the numbers I wrote above you would know that my thesis was not based on one innings but rather the 12 in which these two have batted together.


2. Please dig up stats and post here as to what is the strike rate of This opening pair on an average
and what is the average score Pakistan post in Powerplay.

Ask and you shall receive. Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan have now put on 429 runs as a T20I first-wicket partnership, at an average of 53.62 and a run rate of 9.36 per over. That's the highest average of all 46 pairs that have opened for Pakistan, and the highest scoring rate of any of those pairs that have batted together at least five times.

Thereby establishing the fact that they are not only the most successful opening pair to open the batting for Pakistan, but two of the quickest scorers. Which dispels the popular myth that they are "slow".


3. Please tell me why should not exploiting first 6 overs of Powperplay with only two fielders outside
the circle is in best of Pakistan interest

4. Please tell me how having an opener who can actually take sledgehammer role right from the start
giving better run rate and less stress on these world class batsmen will hurt Pakistan interest.
Would't you like to see some panic in opposition or them under hammer and have to resort to
plan B can hurt Pakistan interest

Basically the same questions so I'll address them together. First off, there is nothing that says you simply have to score 60-70 runs in the powerplay. If you have players who can adopt that approach without damaging the team's chances of getting a good score, then well and good. However if you don't than that kind of strategy becomes self-defeating and can easily lead to a collapse. For a team like Pakistan that has tried this strategy numerous times and failed in the past, it is quite clearly NOT in the best interests of the team.

Because a T20 match is not just about the first 6 overs. It is about all 20.


Please don't get into name calling etc. its a clear sign of lack of argument. I have enjoyed your posts
so far so I will expect you to counter with some substance.
Quick reply to this message

When did I call you names?

 

[MenInG]

[VIDEO] What positives can Pakistan take away from the tour of England?

[utube]DuJVrrO93Y4[/utube]​

Here is what Wasim Khan told us:

PakPassion.net: What positives do you see from the Pakistan cricket team’s recent performances?

Wasim Khan: The positives for us have been the re-emergence of Hassan Ali who has come back fitter, stronger and a better player, whilst Mohammad Rizwan’s continuing consistency across all formats has been exceptional. We are also pleased with Shaheen Shah Afridi who has been performing consistently in all three formats whilst Babar Azam just goes on and on. He might go through a lean patch once in a while, but he always comes back stronger and better. Usman Qadir will get more opportunities to play, and I think he’s a very exciting prospect for us. We have Mohammad Hasnain who will only get better and he’s becoming a far more intelligent bowler now. I’m sure Haider Ali will come back in the future better and stronger as a human being and as a player so there’s much to be enthusiastic about and be positive about.

Yes, some of the results haven’t been great but we have beaten South Africa in a Test series at home and won the T20I series and then we went to South Africa and won the ODI and T20I series. So, there’s a number of things for us to celebrate, but we just have to tinker a bit more and become consistent in our approach and our attitude and I am sure that the good performances will follow.

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

Pakistan shouldn't take positives from loosing a series, makes them sound like Bangladesh and a minnow.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Actually what he's suggesting has some logic. Pakistan's middle order is prone to collapsing so the idea I would presume would be to have someone who is less prone to panic in the second half of the innings.

A hitter such as Sharjeel for example, can often win a match if he opens as the restricted field setting in the power overs gives him better odds. I think Fakhar seems to be struggling since he moved down the order as well.

You might be right on all your points, but his view is not that outrageous.

What is this assertion based on? Is it based on the countless games Sharjeel has won for Pakistan or is it based on his handful of fluke performances for KK? It sounds like an admirable idea in theory: Sharjeel, a player who fashions himself as hard-hitting batsman going hard in the first six overs. But the reality is that Sharjeel is an unfit, one-dimensional hack who can't rotate the strike, can't be consistent and can't win you games.

As for Fakhar, he has averaged in the 21-22 range for pretty much the majority of his T20I career, so don't put his inconsistency down to the him batting down lower. He has always been an inconsistent performer in this format. But the difference between him and Sharjeel is that he is supremely fit, he can rotate the strike and he can win us games.

At any rate, the management should be catering to the strengths of their best players. And Rizwan and Babar as openers is the best use of both.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

What is this assertion based on? Is it based on the countless games Sharjeel has won for Pakistan or is it based on his handful of fluke performances for KK? It sounds like an admirable idea in theory: Sharjeel, a player who fashions himself as hard-hitting batsman going hard in the first six overs. But the reality is that Sharjeel is an unfit, one-dimensional hack who can't rotate the strike, can't be consistent and can't win you games.

As for Fakhar, he has averaged in the 21-22 range for pretty much the majority of his T20I career, so don't put his inconsistency down to the him batting down lower. He has always been an inconsistent performer in this format. But the difference between him and Sharjeel is that he is supremely fit, he can rotate the strike and he can win us games.

At any rate, the management should be catering to the strengths of their best players. And Rizwan and Babar as openers is the best use of both.

I saw more versatility in strokes in Sharjeel during his games for PSL than Fakhar, and the bowling was decent. He was hitting both sides of the wicket, and picked up the length earlier meaning he was less prone to getting caught hitting short balls.

That said it was two years ago and I have no idea if he's still the same player. Certainly looks overweight, and has other issues for sure. But I rated his hitting ability better than Fakhar's on technical reasons not stats.

 

[MenInG]

Rizwan's continued development as Pakistan's backbone is very heartening as is how well Hassan Ali is bowling.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I saw more versatility in strokes in Sharjeel during his games for PSL than Fakhar, and the bowling was decent. He was hitting both sides of the wicket, and picked up the length earlier meaning he was less prone to getting caught hitting short balls.

That said it was two years ago and I have no idea if he's still the same player. Certainly looks overweight, and has other issues for sure. But I rated his hitting ability better than Fakhar's on technical reasons not stats.

See but that's the thing. Hitting is not the only thing you need to succeed in T20s. Self-awareness, strike-rotation and being able to play according to the situation is much more important if a player is to play a truly impactful knock.

I don't feel Sharjeel has any of those abilities. If he hadn't done what he did and wasted 5 years of his career than maybe he even could have become an elite level T20 batsman by now, because that's how good he starting to get in 2016. But all he is now is a watered down version of his old self.

I don't know why Pakistan are wasting time on him, and I certainly don't buy into his PSL form which has proven to be a hugely misleading indicator of the quality-level of a player on more than a few occasions.

 

[fight_club]

Unlike you, I quoted multiple facts. Whereas you quoted none. Your entire post is based on a hypothetical idea that exists in your mind only. Actual ground realities are contrary to that. Nevertheless I will try my best to dispel any misconceptions you may have regarding my comments.


1. Please don't quote a sample size of 1 match to justify your point. Look at Pakistan overall record
while chasing a recent case was against lowly Zimbabwe where Pakistan failed to chase 120 odd with
with same set of openers. However unlike you I would not base my entire thesis on just one odd match
or performance

If you bothered to read the numbers I wrote above you would know that my thesis was not based on one innings but rather the 12 in which these two have batted together.


2. Please dig up stats and post here as to what is the strike rate of This opening pair on an average
and what is the average score Pakistan post in Powerplay.

Ask and you shall receive. Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan have now put on 429 runs as a T20I first-wicket partnership, at an average of 53.62 and a run rate of 9.36 per over. That's the highest average of all 46 pairs that have opened for Pakistan, and the highest scoring rate of any of those pairs that have batted together at least five times.

Thereby establishing the fact that they are not only the most successful opening pair to open the batting for Pakistan, but two of the quickest scorers. Which dispels the popular myth that they are "slow".

I have been saying this time and again that you seems to have issues with comprehending what am I discussing. I asked for average score in PP and their strike rate. I can guarantee you two things when
you will check that.

1. Average score in PP will be somewhere around 38-40
2. strike rate of both the batsmen will be lower than their inning strike rate

Basically the same questions so I'll address them together. First off, there is nothing that says you simply have to score 60-70 runs in the powerplay. If you have players who can adopt that approach without damaging the team's chances of getting a good score, then well and good. However if you don't than that kind of strategy becomes self-defeating and can easily lead to a collapse. For a team like Pakistan that has tried this strategy numerous times and failed in the past, it is quite clearly NOT in the best interests of the team.

Because a T20 match is not just about the first 6 overs. It is about all 20.

you see the whole point of any debate is a different of opinion. My point of contention is maximizing
the Power play without induce "Collapse" or black magic.

I have already admitted that your line of argument as to why "change when its not broke" has some weight as their is not doubt in anybody's mind that both gentlemen in question are best opening pair
in T20 but when you will check and I guess you are already agreeing on the fact that none of them
put together make ordinary use of powerplay.

It means Pakistan is currently playing with a One dimension plan of setting a platform and then launch.

It means that other team can plan better against them since they know limitation of their game and Pakistan will not have a plan B. Case in point is the 3rd match against England where Babar was at 11 in 12 balls was slogging and got out like that. You see my point its the pressure which does funny things even to the best.

Nobody thought for Hundred's of year of playing cricket that a time will come when new ball will be shared by spinners or their will be a "pinch hitter" or even an International cricket match which will last
less than even 50 overs.

Having one attacking option in the opening slot is what I am discussing. It has its merit to this Pakistan squad as losing that opener will still allow Rizwan and babar to play their natural game but if that batsmen fires makes a quick 25 in 10 balls it will simply make things very interesting for Pakistan.

So, Has Pakistan been able to discover that batsmen yet, not exactly. Should Pakistan search for one and try it. In my opinion its certainly should.

 

[Smbhayi]

Top teams will look to score 60 to 70 in first 6 overs and would not mind being two down.

Somebody pls pull out every teams average pp score.. I'd be surprised if any of them have 50+ avg..

 

[fight_club]

Somebody pls pull out every teams average pp score.. I'd be surprised if any of them have 50+ avg..

Why dont you post england pp score in the recent series

 

[fight_club]

Somebody pls pull out every teams average pp score.. I'd be surprised if any of them have 50+ avg..

1st match

Pak 49/0 england 69/3

2nd match

Pak 51/1 england 66/2

Ouch !

 

[Farabi]

I saw more versatility in strokes in Sharjeel during his games for PSL than Fakhar, and the bowling was decent. He was hitting both sides of the wicket, and picked up the length earlier meaning he was less prone to getting caught hitting short balls.

That said it was two years ago and I have no idea if he's still the same player. Certainly looks overweight, and has other issues for sure. But I rated his hitting ability better than Fakhar's on technical reasons not stats.

As shown below, the data shows that Sharjeel was different from other 3 players with a SR approaching 150 while the other 3 had SR below 130. Based on this data, Pakistan would do well to give Sharjeel a consistent run to prove/disprove himself. While PSL6 data doesn't guarantee international performance, it is more indicative of international performance than personal prejudices and favoritism.


PSL6:

Player Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR
Sharjeel Khan 11 11 0 338 105 30.72 228148.24
Babar Azam 11 11 3 554 90* 69.25 418 132.53
Mohd Rizwan 12 12 1 500 82* 45.45 391 127.87
Fakhar Zaman 10 10 1 287 83 31.88 237 121.09

 

[Farabi]

At any rate, the management should be catering to the strengths of their best players. And Rizwan and Babar as openers is the best use of both.

This seems to be your fundamental difference in opinion with the other poster "Fight Club".
You are suggesting Pakistan team organize around its best players, while he seems to be implying Pakistan should optimize for overall resources. Both strategies have merit and should be tested in an ideal world.

-Babar and Rizwan play Middle order in ODI/Test cricket. Relying strike rotation and finding gaps, their games are more adaptable to the middle order.
-Fakhar and Sharjeel are instinctive openers and rely on taking aerial route. They are not as adaptable to the middle order.
-The question is whether Pakistan can afford to bench two talented players (Fakhar/Sharjeel) to "cater to the strengths of its best players i.e. Babar and Rizwan". This is the tradeoff: Its either Babar/Rizwan as openers and no Fakhar/Sharjeel OR Fakhar/Sharjeel as openers + Babar/Rizwan in MO. We have seen what former can deliver but we havent yet seen what the latter can deliver.

Babar/Rizwan have been exceptional and we know what we can get from this strategy. But Pakistan is still not winning. Pakistan has too many openers and not enough talent in middle order. One can speculate all day long but their is no harm in trying the alternate strategy and see how it goes.

Sharjeel
Fakhar
Babar
Rizwan

 

[fight_club]

This seems to be your fundamental difference in opinion with the other poster "Fight Club".
You are suggesting Pakistan team organize around its best players, while he seems to be implying Pakistan should optimize for overall resources. Both strategies have merit and should be tested in an ideal world.

-Babar and Rizwan play Middle order in ODI/Test cricket. Relying strike rotation and finding gaps, their games are more adaptable to the middle order.
-Fakhar and Sharjeel are instinctive openers and rely on taking aerial route. They are not as adaptable to the middle order.
-The question is whether Pakistan can afford to bench two talented players (Fakhar/Sharjeel) to "cater to the strengths of its best players i.e. Babar and Rizwan". This is the tradeoff: Its either Babar/Rizwan as openers and no Fakhar/Sharjeel OR Fakhar/Sharjeel as openers + Babar/Rizwan in MO. We have seen what former can deliver but we havent yet seen what the latter can deliver.

Babar/Rizwan have been exceptional and we know what we can get from this strategy. But Pakistan is still not winning. Pakistan has too many openers and not enough talent in middle order. One can speculate all day long but their is no harm in trying the alternate strategy and see how it goes.

Sharjeel
Fakhar
Babar
Rizwan

You just took it a whole notch above. Hell that order just solve the middle order problem. I would like to maqsood as opener in few matches.

 

[Smbhayi]

1st match

Pak 49/0 england 69/3

2nd match

Pak 51/1 england 66/2

Ouch !

That's just 2 match.. Why don't you check 3rd one too? And who wins that match despite scoring less in power play? More than PP scores it's last 4 overs runs decides match results more often.. Otherwise SRH will be sitting top on ipl point table, they're excellent at pp but s*ck at death overs which often cost their demise..

 

[fight_club]

That's just 2 match.. Why don't you check 3rd one too? And who wins that match despite scoring less in power play? More than PP scores it's last 4 overs runs decides match results more often.. Otherwise SRH will be sitting top on ipl point table, they're excellent at pp but s*ck at death overs which often cost their demise..

Why dont you check the thread title and also the point of discussion. Thanks for coming

 

[Smbhayi]

Why dont you check the thread title and also the point of discussion. Thanks for coming

Then why you make point 1? It's not stick cricket where you can score 50+ in 6 overs every time..

 

[OMB]

That's just 2 match.. Why don't you check 3rd one too? And who wins that match despite scoring less in power play? More than PP scores it's last 4 overs runs decides match results more often.. Otherwise SRH will be sitting top on ipl point table, they're excellent at pp but s*ck at death overs which often cost their demise..

This thread is about Pakistan in T20 and I don't see what SRH in IPL got to do with it?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

This seems to be your fundamental difference in opinion with the other poster "Fight Club".
You are suggesting Pakistan team organize around its best players, while he seems to be implying Pakistan should optimize for overall resources. Both strategies have merit and should be tested in an ideal world.

-Babar and Rizwan play Middle order in ODI/Test cricket. Relying strike rotation and finding gaps, their games are more adaptable to the middle order.
-Fakhar and Sharjeel are instinctive openers and rely on taking aerial route. They are not as adaptable to the middle order.
-The question is whether Pakistan can afford to bench two talented players (Fakhar/Sharjeel) to "cater to the strengths of its best players i.e. Babar and Rizwan". This is the tradeoff: Its either Babar/Rizwan as openers and no Fakhar/Sharjeel OR Fakhar/Sharjeel as openers + Babar/Rizwan in MO. We have seen what former can deliver but we havent yet seen what the latter can deliver.

Babar/Rizwan have been exceptional and we know what we can get from this strategy. But Pakistan is still not winning. Pakistan has too many openers and not enough talent in middle order. One can speculate all day long but their is no harm in trying the alternate strategy and see how it goes.

Sharjeel
Fakhar
Babar
Rizwan

In what universe is Sharjeel a talented player?

Fakhar Zaman is already playing in the middle order and isn't doing any worse there than he was at the top. With an average of 21 is not a reliable prospect in any sense of the word.

Beginning to sound like a broken record at this point but the reason we are not winning is because the middle-order is not performing.

The strategy you are suggesting is a terrible strategy because in most occasions Pakistan will lose early wickets in the powerplay since Sharjeel is a terrible player who will either go big or end up scoring 7 off 19 or something like that. And Fakhar although vastly better than Sharjeel in every way, will also fail on many occasions in that opener role. As a result you will have Rizwan and Babar trying to rebuild the innings. With two wickets down they will have to play cautiously so more wickets are not lost and then Pakistan will be hoping they somehow get to 150.

 

[Abid Z]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But I simply don't agree. One, Pakistan does not have enough players who can go out and play that brand of cricket on a consistent basis. Two, it is an inconsistent and underperforming middle order that is impeding Pakistan's progress and putting all the burden of scoring the runs on the openers.

This was not the case when Pakistan were #1. Perhaps mainly because Hafeez and Shoaib Malik were holding that middle-order really well, something people don't acknowledge enough when they talk about Pakistan's unbeaten T20 series run. While Sarfraz and the all-rounders tended to make a credible enough contribution to get Pakistan to get Pakistan to a decent score.

The problems for Pakistan now are multiple even if we just talk about the batting. Hafeez has experienced a truly remarkable dip in form from... nobody has been able to replace Shoaib Malik (who was dropped for no good reason) and the role he played in the side at 5/6...Fakhar Zaman is far too inconsistent while the revolving door of PSL/domestic darlings that has brought in the likes of Maqsood, Khushdil, Asif Ali, Talat never seems to close, primarily because none of these guys are ever able to nail down a place in the side and only add to Pakistan's batting woes rather than solving them.

The openers are the only thing that is actually working in this team. Imagine what kind of scores Pakistan would end up with on a consistent basis if the middle order just did their job.

This is an excellent post and really clarifies two opposite ends of the debate. You have posters that suggest crash bang wallop approach in the power plays and there’s other more sane posters who just recognise that we don’t have the likes of finch, Warner, Roy or malan at the top so our best batters (babar and rizwan) need a bit of time to settle and cash in later. Then a useful 15/20 each from the hacks further down actually get us close to 200. More than that is just a bonus.

Much more importantly though our howling needs some serious attention. I know husnain looks much improved and I know Harris bowled beautifully in the first t20. I of course realise that SSA was also the MOM in 1st t20. But taken together these are 3 are out and out bowlers that contribute nothing with the bat and are extremely erratic with the ball. If they were producing pin point accurate Yorkers at will and picking up wickets at the death then there is a case for having three of them in the team.

There is a reason why Willey plays ahead of archer in t20’s and adil rashid and moeen Ali will always get the nod. Quite simply Pakistan need the lower order to contribute with bat and ball but if they are specialist bowlers they need to be pin point accurate especially at the death when the pressure is on. Right now we are playing our best 11 but our best 11 don’t look like they could win consistently. Most other teams are actually trying out their 2nd 11 such is the depth in their squad.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I have been saying this time and again that you seems to have issues with comprehending what am I discussing. I asked for average score in PP and their strike rate. I can guarantee you two things when
you will check that.

1. Average score in PP will be somewhere around 38-40
2. strike rate of both the batsmen will be lower than their inning strike rate





you see the whole point of any debate is a different of opinion. My point of contention is maximizing
the Power play without induce "Collapse" or black magic.

I have already admitted that your line of argument as to why "change when its not broke" has some weight as their is not doubt in anybody's mind that both gentlemen in question are best opening pair
in T20 but when you will check and I guess you are already agreeing on the fact that none of them
put together make ordinary use of powerplay.

It means Pakistan is currently playing with a One dimension plan of setting a platform and then launch.

It means that other team can plan better against them since they know limitation of their game and Pakistan will not have a plan B. Case in point is the 3rd match against England where Babar was at 11 in 12 balls was slogging and got out like that. You see my point its the pressure which does funny things even to the best.

Nobody thought for Hundred's of year of playing cricket that a time will come when new ball will be shared by spinners or their will be a "pinch hitter" or even an International cricket match which will last
less than even 50 overs.

Having one attacking option in the opening slot is what I am discussing. It has its merit to this Pakistan squad as losing that opener will still allow Rizwan and babar to play their natural game but if that batsmen fires makes a quick 25 in 10 balls it will simply make things very interesting for Pakistan.

So, Has Pakistan been able to discover that batsmen yet, not exactly. Should Pakistan search for one and try it. In my opinion its certainly should.

People like you never concede when they have been proven wrong. I showed you multiple stats including the one that says they score at a RR of 9.36. But you keep changing the goal post to suit your argument. Why don't you pull out the very specific stats you keep asking me for? Thus far you have made all your points on opinions and hypotheticals, rather than cold hard facts.

You can keep living in a fantasy world where you think Pakistan is England, where they have a side full of dynamic batsmen who can hit sixes at will, or you can come back to the real world and acknowledge that Pakistan is simply not that team. It is bound by many limitations but that doesn't mean it can't be successful if it focuses on accentuating its strengths.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

This is an excellent post and really clarifies two opposite ends of the debate. You have posters that suggest crash bang wallop approach in the power plays and there’s other more sane posters who just recognise that we don’t have the likes of finch, Warner, Roy or malan at the top so our best batters (babar and rizwan) need a bit of time to settle and cash in later. Then a useful 15/20 each from the hacks further down actually get us close to 200. More than that is just a bonus.

Much more importantly though our howling needs some serious attention. I know husnain looks much improved and I know Harris bowled beautifully in the first t20. I of course realise that SSA was also the MOM in 1st t20. But taken together these are 3 are out and out bowlers that contribute nothing with the bat and are extremely erratic with the ball. If they were producing pin point accurate Yorkers at will and picking up wickets at the death then there is a case for having three of them in the team.

There is a reason why Willey plays ahead of archer in t20’s and adil rashid and moeen Ali will always get the nod. Quite simply Pakistan need the lower order to contribute with bat and ball but if they are specialist bowlers they need to be pin point accurate especially at the death when the pressure is on. Right now we are playing our best 11 but our best 11 don’t look like they could win consistently. Most other teams are actually trying out their 2nd 11 such is the depth in their squad.

I think some of the posters here are too easily swayed by PSL form. Which is surprising because the PSL has produced/unearthed waaay more batting failures than batting successes. Just look at the latest one, the man of the tournament who took apart every bowling attack in the tournament.

A recurring theme I have noticed in my years of watching cricket is that most Pakistan fans are never happy. They don't value what they have and are always easily impressed by hack players who possess the ability to hit a few sixes. This explains why Afridi is still regarded as a great match-winner with the bat eventhough he lost us countless more games than he ever won. And why some people continue to be enamored by the likes of Azam Khan and Sharjeel Khan.

I have rarely seen fans who are as poor judges of talent as Pakistani fans.

And since you mentioned Willey and England, another thing that Pakistan is missing out on is the use of data and in particular real-time data in this format. England were literally using live data the other day during the match, whereas, Pakistan don't even know that Hafeez despite his prowess against spinners starts very slow against them. So sending him out at the time they sent him out during the 2nd T20 was not a particularly sound idea.

A team like England is playing 3D chess while Pakistan is playing checkers. But somehow posters here latch onto the one thing that is actually working, rather than focusing on almost every other thing that isn't.

And I agree, the bowling has many problems aswell that need to be sorted out. Rauf's ER in particular is a massive concern for me. The positive is that you have three reliable performers in Shaheen, Imad and Hasan. While someone like Shadab can turn it on big-time if he wants to. But the bowling is not dynamic enough. Because if someone gets out of form or starts getting hammered, you need players that are just as good replacements.

Unfortunately, Hasnain, Rauf, Qadir are just not there yet for me.

 

[mastimasti]

Englishmen felt it in there bones. They were thrashed for taking it easy.

Forced to play there best combination and game, finally they were made to fight tooth and nail till the last over for a well deserved series victory but as they will not and so you must think that There were any losers.

Just two teams battling hard till the glorious end and gave us a spectacle to remember and cherish.


Make no doubt that in spite of all the shortcoming Pakistan is a force to reckon with in world T20 format. The series with World no.1 ranked team has really tested Pakistan resolve, exposed their weakness and spectacularly shown their strengths.

So, Their is a lot of positives and few negatives to look at. If Pakistan is able to fix those shortcomings they can surprise many in forthcoming World cup.


Area of Concerns:


1. Opening Combination: I know this will be a hard bit to swallow but lets try to be objective here. You don't want Babar to lose his shape and slog. Their is no denying that both Rizwan and Babar have been epitome of consistency but its also clear that both of them are not cut out to play the sledgehammer cricket which Powerplay's demands in T20.

Top teams will look to score 60 to 70 in first 6 overs and would not mind being two down. You need to Launch an offensive right from the word go Pakistan openers are not cut out for that also Babar coming 1 down will strengthen Pakistan middle order which is another achilles heel.


Middle order and hitting in 360: The most successful batsmen apart from the Babar and Rizwan has been Hafeez. Matter of fact he has been an absolute revelation breathing fire and providing Pakistan late order impetus.

Pakistan Desperately need another batter who can be relied on and someone who can play spin with ease. In whatever future series Pakistan will play its imperative that Pak discover its no.4 or 5.

Another area to work on is stroke play in 360 degree. We all witnessed how England batsmen were sweep in both direction to unsettle Pakistan spinners on a track which was turning square and was slow.

These batters Practice these shots a lot as they take hitting the ball as an art form. Hasan ali is a tremendous hitter but need to develop his off side play and ramp short against short Pitch stuff. This is what every batsmen has to work on.


The not so Thinking Tank: That's easy boyz. Rigid and timid approach with zero dynamism. Lack of guts to experiment and play with freedom Pakistan cricket has been held back by Poor management for ages and its high time something is done about it. From selection to execution the holes are gaping and embarrassing


"Shabash, boyz played well" (The positives):

1. Shadab & Imad return to form: He is Pakistan best fielder Decent batsmen and finding some rhythm in his bowling. When faced with relentless assault he managed to kept his wits and tried to spin the bowl rather then overtly relying on Variation.

Imad own place is still under threat from Nawaz but he also managed to put up a decent showing. Facing likes of Roy and Butler is a dire prospect for any spinner in the power play's but he managed to hold on his own. He is actually a better lower order Bat with nerves of steel.

2. Pace attack: Hasnain, bar one over was able to put up a very decent show and was actually the best pacer between both teams in the first T20. Shaheen was impressive in first two. He must look to work on his variation and speed

Hasan Ali the lion Hearted: If you are looking for any inspiration then Ali is the go to man. Recovering from bad form and injury he fought his way back into team doing the hard yard. This lad is lion hearted and has that X-factor to lead and inspire the impressive pace battery Pakistan possess.


Pakistan will take a lot of positives and self belief from this series. They face West Indies next which will be another test of character. Pakistan must not be afraid to experiment now and try to find solution's before the big event.


Fight_Cub​

This is actually a terrific review, other posters on here take note!

The opening pair for pakistan are consistent and a squad that lacks power hitters needs this. In fact only England really hit 60 runs consistently in a powerplay so that's not something anyone else cam be accused of.

The possibility is both sharjeel and fakhar opening and then azam and rizwan come in but that could easily be 10-2.

Not quite sure what the answer is. Maybe it's hasan ali being a floating bitter who comes in if the situation demands it.

The bigger issue is pakistans bowling is too up and down. In the uae they may need 3 spinners...

 

[fight_club]

People like you never concede when they have been proven wrong. I showed you multiple stats including the one that says they score at a RR of 9.36. But you keep changing the goal post to suit your argument. Why don't you pull out the very specific stats you keep asking me for? Thus far you have made all your points on opinions and hypotheticals, rather than cold hard facts.

You can keep living in a fantasy world where you think Pakistan is England, where they have a side full of dynamic batsmen who can hit sixes at will, or you can come back to the real world and acknowledge that Pakistan is simply not that team. It is bound by many limitations but that doesn't mean it can't be successful if it focuses on accentuating its strengths.

People like you must first understand the meaning of debate or rather not be part of any forum.

Debates are not to prove someone wrong but to put forward your views and opinions as objectively as possible. There are many posters who have understood the what is exactly the issue I am discussing If you are unable to comprehend that I can't help you.

I have also put up some data and points in my post either you can counter that with some stats of your own or simply stay away from this thread. I am looking for improvement in Pakistan cricket you might be content with watching them struggling to beat a lowly zimbambave. You may choose to close you eyes against obvious issue I will not.

Please don't respond unless you have something of substance to post.

 

[fight_club]

This is actually a terrific review, other posters on here take note!

The opening pair for pakistan are consistent and a squad that lacks power hitters needs this. In fact only England really hit 60 runs consistently in a powerplay so that's not something anyone else cam be accused of.

The possibility is both sharjeel and fakhar opening and then azam and rizwan come in but that could easily be 10-2.

Not quite sure what the answer is. Maybe it's hasan ali being a floating bitter who comes in if the situation demands it.

The bigger issue is pakistans bowling is too up and down. In the uae they may need 3 spinners...

Thanks, I started to wonder what is so difficult to comprehend if a suggestion is made to exploit powerplay without risking wickets of Rizwan and Babar.

1. As suggested throughout this thread that Pakistan can start experimenting with one attacking opener
to partner Rizwan and babar can come at no.3

So, If that opener get out even cheaply it would't trigger any collapse and babar and rizwan can
continue with their natural game. Why would this simple statement challenges wits to an extent of
rattle is both absurd and amusing

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

People like you must first understand the meaning of debate or rather not be part of any forum.

Debates are not to prove someone wrong but to put forward your views and opinions as objectively as possible. There are many posters who have understood the what is exactly the issue I am discussing If you are unable to comprehend that I can't help you.

I have also put up some data and points in my post either you can counter that with some stats of your own or simply stay away from this thread. I am looking for improvement in Pakistan cricket you might be content with watching them struggling to beat a lowly zimbambave. You may choose to close you eyes against obvious issue I will not.

Please don't respond unless you have something of substance to post.

You're right that is how actual debates go. But this is not an actual debate since I have continuously made points based on facts and reality, whereas you have made points based on your opinions and hypotheticals.

In one of my earlier posts you basically told me that using an example of a couple of games to make a point is not right. But I guess its okay when you do the exact same thing to demonstrate how England outscored Pakistan in the power play this series, or how Pakistan embarrassed themselves against Zimbabwe in one game.

You have zero credibility and can't even not do something you, yourself accused me of doing.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

See but that's the thing. Hitting is not the only thing you need to succeed in T20s. Self-awareness, strike-rotation and being able to play according to the situation is much more important if a player is to play a truly impactful knock.

I don't feel Sharjeel has any of those abilities. If he hadn't done what he did and wasted 5 years of his career than maybe he even could have become an elite level T20 batsman by now, because that's how good he starting to get in 2016. But all he is now is a watered down version of his old self.

I don't know why Pakistan are wasting time on him, and I certainly don't buy into his PSL form which has proven to be a hugely misleading indicator of the quality-level of a player on more than a few occasions.

Disagree on the PSL form, I actually think it's as good a test as domestic Pakistan players are going to get as there are usually quality batsmen and bowlers throughout the side, very few mediocre players get to coast through. It was notable that in this year's PSL some of the big hopes like Asif Ali and Haider Ali flopped for the most part, and also quite a few of the Pakistan bowlers struggled.

I don't want to push Sharjeel forward too much as I already said he may be past his best, but before he got banned he would have been a great wild card opener. I put him far above the level of other Pakistan slogger wannabes as he picked the ball up so early and jumped on even the slightest bad length.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Disagree on the PSL form, I actually think it's as good a test as domestic Pakistan players are going to get as there are usually quality batsmen and bowlers throughout the side, very few mediocre players get to coast through. It was notable that in this year's PSL some of the big hopes like Asif Ali and Haider Ali flopped for the most part, and also quite a few of the Pakistan bowlers struggled.

I don't want to push Sharjeel forward too much as I already said he may be past his best, but before he got banned he would have been a great wild card opener. I put him far above the level of other Pakistan slogger wannabes as he picked the ball up so early and jumped on even the slightest bad length.

Okay, name 5 batsmen unearthed by the PSL that are established performers in the national team?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Okay, name 5 batsmen unearthed by the PSL that are established performers in the national team?

Some of them haven't really been considered for one reason or another, but bowlers who caught my eye were Imran Khan Jr, Dilbar and Mohammed Imran. I would like to see these guys being given exposure as I think they have shown some intelligence and control when bowling as opposed to chuck it down fast and see what happens types like Rauf.

Batsmen is trickier as Pakistan batters even in the PSL were mostly flops. You can only pick the best of a bad bunch, or maybe try promoting different guys to the PSL from the tried and failed.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Some of them haven't really been considered for one reason or another, but bowlers who caught my eye were Imran Khan Jr, Dilbar and Mohammed Imran. I would like to see these guys being given exposure as I think they have shown some intelligence and control when bowling as opposed to chuck it down fast and see what happens types like Rauf.

Batsmen is trickier as Pakistan batters even in the PSL were mostly flops. You can only pick the best of a bad bunch, or maybe try promoting different guys to the PSL from the tried and failed.

You seem to have misunderstood my point. I wasn't speaking to PSL being a poor place to unearth talent. If anything PSL has been terrific at unearthing bowling prospects for Pakistan. Shaheen, Hasnain, Hasan Ali, Shadab, Haris Rauf can all attribute their rise to prominence (with varying degrees) to the PSL.

But for unearthing batsmen it has been nothing short of terrible. Which is the point I was speaking to and why you can't at all rely on the PSL performances of a particular Pakistani domestic batsman.

 

[fight_club]

You're right that is how actual debates go. But this is not an actual debate since I have continuously made points based on facts and reality, whereas you have made points based on your opinions and hypotheticals.

In one of my earlier posts you basically told me that using an example of a couple of games to make a point is not right. But I guess its okay when you do the exact same thing to demonstrate how England outscored Pakistan in the power play this series, or how Pakistan embarrassed themselves against Zimbabwe in one game.

You have zero credibility and can't even not do something you, yourself accused me of doing.

Please don't hide behind this lame credibility excuse to hide your complete failure to counter my point with
any credible argument or data. I have made my points very clearly and in the last post also in bold thinking it might just help you grasping my simple arguments.

Now let me expose your Charade or argument for the last time.


I am discussing Maximization of Power play and still preserving Wickets of both Rizwan and Babar.

1. I have clearly stated in an earlier post that Pakistan Average score in PP with this opening pair
will be somewhere around 40
2. Their strike rate would be low in Power play. These two score at a better rate after PP
3. Pakistan has been in many situation already where they needed
better outcome of Power play and they will need so in future as well. You have already admitted
that bobby and rizzy are not sledgehammer type of batsmen and record point towards that
so If I am suggesting an attacking opener who will do that and rizzy and bobby will play their
normal game how it will lead to a collapse?

Isn't that a fantasy or baseless hypothesis. Babar has played well at no.3 its nothing new he still
comes at the top and by playing at no.3 he would not be compelled to throw his wicket

What do you have to prove that my theory will lead to disaster?

Babar coming at no.3 will also provide stability to our floundering middle order which you yourself
admit is the biggest problem. World class batsmen easily adjust to demand of their team and can
adapt to different position. Babar is not new at all to no.3 so how can that be so disastrous???

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Please don't hide behind this lame credibility excuse to hide your complete failure to counter my point with
any credible argument or data. I have made my points very clearly and in the last post also in bold thinking it might just help you grasping my simple arguments.

Now let me expose your Charade or argument for the last time.


I am discussing Maximization of Power play and still preserving Wickets of both Rizwan and Babar.

1. I have clearly stated in an earlier post that Pakistan Average score in PP with this opening pair
will be somewhere around 40
2. Their strike rate would be low in Power play. These two score at a better rate after PP
3. Pakistan has been in many situation already where they needed
better outcome of Power play and they will need so in future as well. You have already admitted
that bobby and rizzy are not sledgehammer type of batsmen and record point towards that
so If I am suggesting an attacking opener who will do that and rizzy and bobby will play their
normal game how it will lead to a collapse?

Isn't that a fantasy or baseless hypothesis. Babar has played well at no.3 its nothing new he still
comes at the top and by playing at no.3 he would not be compelled to throw his wicket

What do you have to prove that my theory will lead to disaster?

Babar coming at no.3 will also provide stability to our floundering middle order which you yourself
admit is the biggest problem. World class batsmen easily adjust to demand of their team and can
adapt to different position. Babar is not new at all to no.3 so how can that be so disastrous???

Wow. You really are a master at using the terms 'will be' and 'could be'. Only problem is that in the case of stats there isn't any will be or could be. There are only numbers. And after going through your entire post I have once again noticed that you have presented a grand total of zero numbers or stats. Which is why I see absolutely no reason to engage in this back and forth any further.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You seem to have misunderstood my point. I wasn't speaking to PSL being a poor place to unearth talent. If anything PSL has been terrific at unearthing bowling prospects for Pakistan. Shaheen, Hasnain, Hasan Ali, Shadab, Haris Rauf can all attribute their rise to prominence (with varying degrees) to the PSL.

But for unearthing batsmen it has been nothing short of terrible. Which is the point I was speaking to and why you can't at all rely on the PSL performances of a particular Pakistani domestic batsman.

Actually PSL hasn't been terrible for unearthing batsmen, there are some who have done really well considering it is a 20 over format. Just not Pakistani batsmen, and that is hardly down to the format of PSL.

You would expect the selectors would be able to see that there are some who are far more suited to longer format games like Shakeel or one or two others who showed good judgement, but not much hitting power. When I am talking about PSL I am essentially judging for T20 format, and perhaps ODI's since even that format has become more aggressive in the last decade.

 

[silentkiller187]

Please don't hide behind this lame credibility excuse to hide your complete failure to counter my point with
any credible argument or data. I have made my points very clearly and in the last post also in bold thinking it might just help you grasping my simple arguments.

Now let me expose your Charade or argument for the last time.


I am discussing Maximization of Power play and still preserving Wickets of both Rizwan and Babar.

1. I have clearly stated in an earlier post that Pakistan Average score in PP with this opening pair
will be somewhere around 40
2. Their strike rate would be low in Power play. These two score at a better rate after PP
3. Pakistan has been in many situation already where they needed
better outcome of Power play and they will need so in future as well. You have already admitted
that bobby and rizzy are not sledgehammer type of batsmen and record point towards that
so If I am suggesting an attacking opener who will do that and rizzy and bobby will play their
normal game how it will lead to a collapse?

Isn't that a fantasy or baseless hypothesis. Babar has played well at no.3 its nothing new he still
comes at the top and by playing at no.3 he would not be compelled to throw his wicket

What do you have to prove that my theory will lead to disaster?

Babar coming at no.3 will also provide stability to our floundering middle order which you yourself
admit is the biggest problem. World class batsmen easily adjust to demand of their team and can
adapt to different position. Babar is not new at all to no.3 so how can that be so disastrous???

The average powerplay for all international teams in a winning cause is 47 in t20i.

Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan have now put on 429 runs as a T20I first-wicket partnership, at an average of 53.62 and a run rate of 9.36 per over. That's the highest average of all 46 pairs that have opened for Pakistan, and the highest scoring rate of any of those pairs that have batted together at least five times

People can fantasize all they want about SHARJEEL but the fact is he averages 22.7 in t20s with a strike rate of 133 , rizwan averages double this with only 4 runs less strike rate.

 

[silentkiller187]

Wow. You really are a master at using the terms 'will be' and 'could be'. Only problem is that in the case of stats there isn't any will be or could be. There are only numbers. And after going through your entire post I have once again noticed that you have presented a grand total of zero numbers or stats. Which is why I see absolutely no reason to engage in this back and forth any further.

The average powerplay for all international teams in a winning cause is 47 in t20i.

Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan have now put on 429 runs as a T20I first-wicket partnership, at an average of 53.62 and a run rate of 9.36 per over. That's the highest average of all 46 pairs that have opened for Pakistan, and the highest scoring rate of any of those pairs that have batted together at least five times

People can fantasize all they want about SHARJEEL but the fact is he averages 22.7 in t20s with a strike rate of 133 , rizwan averages double this with only 4 runs less strike rate.

The fact is its pretty clear Babar and Rizwan are not the problem, its the mediocre rubbish that comes after that everyones hyping up with no substance.

 

[mastimasti]

Thanks, I started to wonder what is so difficult to comprehend if a suggestion is made to exploit powerplay without risking wickets of Rizwan and Babar.

1. As suggested throughout this thread that Pakistan can start experimenting with one attacking opener
to partner Rizwan and babar can come at no.3

So, If that opener get out even cheaply it would't trigger any collapse and babar and rizwan can
continue with their natural game. Why would this simple statement challenges wits to an extent of
rattle is both absurd and amusing

Could be....Zaman and Rizwan, then Babar, then Sharjeel who is the only other hitter I can see in the whole Pakistan domestic set up. That could work but I don't think Pakistan need to look to worry about scoring too quickly...they did so pretty well with their current set up. The bigger issue is fine tuning the bowling and the fielding and Babar to be a more tactically astute captain, like Morgan or McCullum before.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The fact is its pretty clear Babar and Rizwan are not the problem, its the mediocre rubbish that comes after that everyones hyping up with no substance.

I quoted the exact stat you quoted above to him yesterday, but ofcourse he ignored it completely and went on with the same line of argument eventhough he has absolutely nothing to back his argument with.

 

[Smbhayi]

This thread is about Pakistan in T20 and I don't see what SRH in IPL got to do with it?

Just giving an example.. It's not necessary to have big hitters in power play to score fast.. Even people like Saha, Narine, Parthiv etc able to score fast in pp overs.. Can they score fast in death overs? More often than not they'll fail.. You need power game to be successful in death overs (or you need to be an elite bat like Kohli or Kane)...
Everyone here says Rizwan is not a big hitter.. Then why they want him in the middle where he's most likely to struggle? That too when he's excellent at opening?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Actually PSL hasn't been terrible for unearthing batsmen, there are some who have done really well considering it is a 20 over format. Just not Pakistani batsmen, and that is hardly down to the format of PSL.

You would expect the selectors would be able to see that there are some who are far more suited to longer format games like Shakeel or one or two others who showed good judgement, but not much hitting power. When I am talking about PSL I am essentially judging for T20 format, and perhaps ODI's since even that format has become more aggressive in the last decade.

Naturally I wasn't speaking to how good the PSL has been for the careers of Malan and Livingstone. Unfortunately though when you have someone as clueless as Mohammad Waseem at the helm, its pointless to expect much of anything.

Somebody ought to ask him what stats he was looking at to when selecting Azam Khan or all the other various, clueless selections he has made since coming on. Pakistan cricket is held hostage by all these ex-players who are completely out of touch and have no idea regarding how much the game has evolved or how deeply engrained numbers and data have become in cricket. Someone like Waseem will likely take a cursory look at a player's Cricinfo profile and then make a a PowerPoint presentation with graphs on it to fool people into thinking he actually even looks at stats.

The sad reality is that even if you replace Waseem, his replacement will be just as bad or worse than him. While if someone tries to call out ex-players about how out of touch they are with cricket, they will tell you that unlike you, they played cricket. As if that qualifies them to be an expert on the sport for life.

What Pakistan cricket's selection panel needs is an accomplished, cricket journalist who understands the game but a sane ex-player who isn't guided almost completely by his biases would do too. That one person should work with a team of CricViz analysts who can show him the light so that he makes informed, deserving and sensible selections.

 

[Abid Z]

Englishmen felt it in there bones. They were thrashed for taking it easy.

Forced to play there best combination and game, finally they were made to fight tooth and nail till the last over for a well deserved series victory but as they will not and so you must think that There were any losers.

Just two teams battling hard till the glorious end and gave us a spectacle to remember and cherish.


Make no doubt that in spite of all the shortcoming Pakistan is a force to reckon with in world T20 format. The series with World no.1 ranked team has really tested Pakistan resolve, exposed their weakness and spectacularly shown their strengths.

So, Their is a lot of positives and few negatives to look at. If Pakistan is able to fix those shortcomings they can surprise many in forthcoming World cup.


Area of Concerns:


1. Opening Combination: I know this will be a hard bit to swallow but lets try to be objective here. You don't want Babar to lose his shape and slog. Their is no denying that both Rizwan and Babar have been epitome of consistency but its also clear that both of them are not cut out to play the sledgehammer cricket which Powerplay's demands in T20.

Top teams will look to score 60 to 70 in first 6 overs and would not mind being two down. You need to Launch an offensive right from the word go Pakistan openers are not cut out for that also Babar coming 1 down will strengthen Pakistan middle order which is another achilles heel.


Middle order and hitting in 360: The most successful batsmen apart from the Babar and Rizwan has been Hafeez. Matter of fact he has been an absolute revelation breathing fire and providing Pakistan late order impetus.

Pakistan Desperately need another batter who can be relied on and someone who can play spin with ease. In whatever future series Pakistan will play its imperative that Pak discover its no.4 or 5.

Another area to work on is stroke play in 360 degree. We all witnessed how England batsmen were sweep in both direction to unsettle Pakistan spinners on a track which was turning square and was slow.

These batters Practice these shots a lot as they take hitting the ball as an art form. Hasan ali is a tremendous hitter but need to develop his off side play and ramp short against short Pitch stuff. This is what every batsmen has to work on.


The not so Thinking Tank: That's easy boyz. Rigid and timid approach with zero dynamism. Lack of guts to experiment and play with freedom Pakistan cricket has been held back by Poor management for ages and its high time something is done about it. From selection to execution the holes are gaping and embarrassing


"Shabash, boyz played well" (The positives):

1. Shadab & Imad return to form: He is Pakistan best fielder Decent batsmen and finding some rhythm in his bowling. When faced with relentless assault he managed to kept his wits and tried to spin the bowl rather then overtly relying on Variation.

Imad own place is still under threat from Nawaz but he also managed to put up a decent showing. Facing likes of Roy and Butler is a dire prospect for any spinner in the power play's but he managed to hold on his own. He is actually a better lower order Bat with nerves of steel.

2. Pace attack: Hasnain, bar one over was able to put up a very decent show and was actually the best pacer between both teams in the first T20. Shaheen was impressive in first two. He must look to work on his variation and speed

Hasan Ali the lion Hearted: If you are looking for any inspiration then Ali is the go to man. Recovering from bad form and injury he fought his way back into team doing the hard yard. This lad is lion hearted and has that X-factor to lead and inspire the impressive pace battery Pakistan possess.


Pakistan will take a lot of positives and self belief from this series. They face West Indies next which will be another test of character. Pakistan must not be afraid to experiment now and try to find solution's before the big event.


Fight_Cub​

First of all congratulations on a very good post. You make some good points but I do side with Redwood above but nevertheless you need commendation rather than get into an argument.

Let’s flesh out your points just a little.
You say areas of concern and then no 1 is the opening partnership. I and a few others would say this is an area of least concern. Given that you’ve qualified this by discussing strike rates and changes in the line up to accommodate babar at 3..well you would have to state “what is the point” and really there seems no point in disturbing what is obviously working so well to be one of the best opening partnerships in the world. Yes you could argue that on an Asian wicket sharjeel fakhar combo could work but equally it could/would not work if history is anything to go by. Andy Saltzman did a very good stat that losing a wicket or 2 in pp rarely results in a 200+ score. Sharjeel and Fakhar could easily come in at 3/4

No 2 you mention Hafeez and hafeez certainly is the 3rd most reliable batsman in the team when on form. He’s a little lean at present but again he’s not a problem as such because an off spinning all rounder is irreplaceable right now. But striking 360 degrees is an area of concern and at present we simply don’t have the batsmen that can do it. Remember this English team have been practicing exactly this under Trevor Baylis for the last 7/8 years and now it’s coming to fruition.

“Namely every ball bowled should be a wicket taking ball”
“ every shot hit should be a 6”.

Now he came across so much criticism when it backfired but now with a squad of 20 players that could make it in the team this one track approach is bearing fruit.

You are right about the management. It’s like They are stuck in the 1990’s. Very rigid.

Then I’m thinking there is a flaw in having three right arm pacers husnain, rauf and hasan with shaheen. That’s a long tail. Sure hasan can hit a few but the others can’t. Yes agree husnain has been a revelation in the odd match but still not consistent enough.

I think much as I like qadir he’s too loose and contributes little with the bat. Prefer nawaz but that through lack of choice.

The most concerning aspect that you didn’t even mention is that this was by far our best 11 but aside from this 11 we really don’t have a deep squad as replacements if it fails. The lack of credible alternatives is really hurting us right now.

But good points no need to get upset it’s a good debate.

 

[fight_club]

The average powerplay for all international teams in a winning cause is 47 in t20i.

Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan have now put on 429 runs as a T20I first-wicket partnership, at an average of 53.62 and a run rate of 9.36 per over. That's the highest average of all 46 pairs that have opened for Pakistan, and the highest scoring rate of any of those pairs that have batted together at least five times

People can fantasize all they want about SHARJEEL but the fact is he averages 22.7 in t20s with a strike rate of 133 , rizwan averages double this with only 4 runs less strike rate.

This is some sort of syndrome I guess. I see a set of posters having problem in accepting the obvious fact
that Pak two best batsmen are just about average in power plays.

Tell me why would you take winning avg of all the country which will have likes of Nambia, zim etc
then if take total avg score in a winning combination even that will be low lets say 155. Will that make
155 a winning and desirable total.

I have shown PP scores of England in the recent series. Please go and fetch avg pp scores of top 3 teams
and you will understand what am I talking about. Actually you and everyone knows that petty well already but are not ready to admit it.

The first thing which top teams do is that they have an uncompromising attitude toward their game and they will never settle for 2nd in anything. They don't care about personal milestones or records that's what separate Champion teams with Average team.

Pakistan is facing an a problem of unstable middle order and batsmen like Fakhar who have no record of playing at no.5 is being tried at that. You see even this team is experimenting. 2nd Get your head and eyesight checked and point where did I mention Sharjeel?? You are not the last one who has issues regarding comprehending.

You can write this down if you wish but I have already seen this pair has limitation and in high pressure games they will try to play a game which is not natural to them and will get out playing slogs as was clearly seen in the last T20 match.

I don't want Bobby and Rizzy to play that sort of game and get out putting already weak middle order in immense pressure. You will see Pakistan at some stage will experiment with an opener and push babar at no.3.

I would not go about repeating same thing again and again. I will send you a hello when that will happen

 

[fight_club]

Then why you make point 1? It's not stick cricket where you can score 50+ in 6 overs every time..

Sir, you broke my heart there calling england team stick cricket team. I need a coffee

 

[fight_club]

Helloooooo. As predicted and it worked in this match with babar walking without any pressure

 

[Smbhayi]

Sir, you broke my heart there calling england team stick cricket team. I need a coffee

Lol ENG doesn't avg 60+ in pp overs I believe.. In fact avg pp score in winning T20Is is around 48..

 

[Smbhayi]

Helloooooo. As predicted and it worked in this match with babar walking without any pressure

Is that a sarcasm? Out of 28 balls he's there he faced 16 of them and only scored 20 runs with 7 dot balls.. Is that a good performance?

 

[shamaan]

Is that a sarcasm? Out of 28 balls he's there he faced 16 of them and only scored 20 runs with 7 dot balls.. Is that a good performance?

Don't look at the smaller picture look at the bigger picture

 

[fight_club]

Is that a sarcasm? Out of 28 balls he's there he faced 16 of them and only scored 20 runs with 7 dot balls.. Is that a good performance?

Is that poor attempt for stand up comedy?? It will help once you start understanding cricket better. When
Sharjeel got out score was 46 in 4.4 overs and I would happily take that. Babar came with no pressure to
take any risk and he simply played himself in.

2nd, You don't want Babar opening against a left armer. I would still encourage you for stand up as some post of yours really crack me up

 

[Cricketrenew]

It was another poor tour of England for Pakistan, its becoming bit of a downer.

PAkistan tours of England were always good battles... not anymore.

Each time there is one thing or another.

Only consistent seems to be Waqar the coach?
I wish he would teach the bowlers how to reverse swing and and teach Shaheen how to swing ball both ways.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=3187]fight_club[/MENTION] Hope you have re-evaluated your opinion on Babar-Rizwan opening combo. Hate to say I told you so, but I did.

'Sledgehammer approach' was never Pakistan's game and if Pakistan is to win the World Cup, its going to be with these two staying not out getting 40-50 in the powerplay. And then they can either play till the end or get out but provide the platform for the batsmen ahead to go hard.

 

[fight_club]

[MENTION=3187]fight_club[/MENTION] Hope you have re-evaluated your opinion on Babar-Rizwan opening combo. Hate to say I told you so, but I did.

'Sledgehammer approach' was never Pakistan's game and if Pakistan is to win the World Cup, its going to be with these two staying not out getting 40-50 in the powerplay. And then they can either play till the end or get out but provide the platform for the batsmen ahead to go hard.

Mate, I guess you should have waited before posting as Today match against Kiwi's amply displayed What I Said. Even Against India Babar RR was run a ball during the powerplay but Today Score in Power play
was totally unacceptable when you are chasing 135 odd runs.

I hate to say this again and again that Babar must come at no.3. I wouldn't like him to get out playing ugly swipes because of Run rate pressure as that can be done by likes of Farhan.

I know, It is so difficult to change something which has been so successful, hell I would be thinking twice
but flexibility is the name of the game. At times having an opener who take chances and his dismissal wouldn't bring the whole team down may suit Pakistan while chasing.

Pakistan has almost made a meal of measly chase of 135 today.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Mate, I guess you should have waited before posting as Today match against Kiwi's amply displayed What I Said. Even Against India Babar RR was run a ball during the powerplay but Today Score in Power play
was totally unacceptable when you are chasing 135 odd runs.

I hate to say this again and again that Babar must come at no.3. I wouldn't like him to get out playing ugly swipes because of Run rate pressure as that can be done by likes of Farhan.

I know, It is so difficult to change something which has been so successful, hell I would be thinking twice
but flexibility is the name of the game. At times having an opener who take chances and his dismissal wouldn't bring the whole team down may suit Pakistan while chasing.

Pakistan has almost made a meal of measly chase of 135 today.

A few failures simply cannot take away from the overwhelming success Pakistan's most successful T20I opening combination of all-time has been able to deliver in just a year of batting together. And the performance against India was the defining full stop that should have put a full stop to the questions from the doubters, but I guess that was too much to ask.

If you are expecting them to fire every single game than you are living in a fantasy world. No cricketer in the world can do that. But numbers show that not only do Babar and Rizwan bat well together but they do it on a fairly consistent basis and when they do, Pakistan wins. Those are undisputable facts, not hypotheticals.

Thankfully, the Pakistan team management knows that and that's what matters most.

Additionally, if one was even to make a case against this opening combo, they certainly shouldn't be foolish enough to make such a case when they are playing a World Cup in UAE. A tournament that has thus far shown that having more than one accumulator at the top has its weight in gold. Because these are tricky pitches where playing smartly and getting to 150 is much more sensible and realistic thing to do than adopting the crash wallop approach and trying to go for 200. Which simply is not a realistic total here on most occasions.

 

[fight_club]

A few failures simply cannot take away from the overwhelming success Pakistan's most successful T20I opening combination of all-time has been able to deliver in just a year of batting together. And the performance against India was the defining full stop that should have put a full stop to the questions from the doubters, but I guess that was too much to ask.

If you are expecting them to fire every single game than you are living in a fantasy world. No cricketer in the world can do that. But numbers show that not only do Babar and Rizwan bat well together but they do it on a fairly consistent basis and when they do, Pakistan wins. Those are undisputable facts, not hypotheticals.

Thankfully, the Pakistan team management knows that and that's what matters most.

Additionally, if one was even to make a case against this opening combo, they certainly shouldn't be foolish enough to make such a case when they are playing a World Cup in UAE. A tournament that has thus far shown that having more than one accumulator at the top has its weight in gold. Because these are tricky pitches where playing smartly and getting to 150 is much more sensible and realistic thing to do than adopting the crash wallop approach and trying to go for 200. Which simply is not a realistic total here on most occasions.

My earlier post

The first thing which top teams do is that they have an uncompromising attitude toward their game and they will never settle for 2nd in anything. They don't care about personal milestones or records that's what separate Champion teams with Average team.

Pakistan is facing an a problem of unstable middle order and batsmen like Fakhar who have no record of playing at no.5 is being tried at that. You see even this team is experimenting. 2nd Get your head and eyesight checked and point where did I mention Sharjeel?? You are not the last one who has issues regarding comprehending.

You can write this down if you wish but I have already seen this pair has limitation and in high pressure games they will try to play a game which is not natural to them and will get out playing slogs as was clearly seen in the last T20 match.

I don't want Bobby and Rizzy to play that sort of game and get out putting already weak middle order in immense pressure. You will see Pakistan at some stage will experiment with an opener and push babar at no.3.

I would not go about repeating same thing again and again. I will send you a hello when that will happen

HELLO !!

No one is doubter, hater, kelvinator, elevator etc There is something called as being "Observant" and then
that heavenly feeling of being "Ignorant". There are teams and fans obsessed by records and stats and then there are teams who are prefer winning over reputation.

In none of my post throughout the length and breadth of this thread. I have denied greatness of Babar, rizwan or nor have I denied that they have outstanding stats as opening pair. However my "Observation"
about there "limitations" and Pakistan fragile middle order has been proven time and again as recently as yesterday.

Babar game is play risk free cricket knock ball in the gaps and punish weak deliveries. he is the best No.3 we have and not Fakhar for god sake. You wouldn't realize that every time you post you expose your limitation of grasping some obvious facts but who says being ignorant is boring.

Feel free to come back. I am famished

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

My earlier post



HELLO !!

No one is doubter, hater, kelvinator, elevator etc There is something called as being "Observant" and then
that heavenly feeling of being "Ignorant". There are teams and fans obsessed by records and stats and then there are teams who are prefer winning over reputation.

In none of my post throughout the length and breadth of this thread. I have denied greatness of Babar, rizwan or nor have I denied that they have outstanding stats as opening pair. However my "Observation"
about there "limitations" and Pakistan fragile middle order has been proven time and again as recently as yesterday.

Babar game is play risk free cricket knock ball in the gaps and punish weak deliveries. he is the best No.3 we have and not Fakhar for god sake. You wouldn't realize that every time you post you expose your limitation of grasping some obvious facts but who says being ignorant is boring.

Feel free to come back. I am famished

1. No need to talk like we live in the 19th century.

2. Stats do mean more than they ever did. And data is becoming more applicable than it ever was before, especially in T20 cricket. It is data that tells us that Haris Rauf, Asif Ali and Rizwan/Babar have aspects to their game that can bring Pakistan alot of success at different points of the match.

3. It is much better to believe in something real than a delusional fantasy which exists only in your brain...kinda like the plot of your favorite movie.

 

[fight_club]

1. No need to talk like we live in the 19th century.

2. Stats do mean more than they ever did. And data is becoming more applicable than it ever was before, especially in T20 cricket. It is data that tells us that Haris Rauf, Asif Ali and Rizwan/Babar have aspects to their game that can bring Pakistan alot of success at different points of the match.

3. It is much better to believe in something real than a delusional fantasy which exists only in your brain...kinda like the plot of your favorite movie.

Do you really enjoy embarrassing yourself. If read your own sentence you will die laughing or crying.

Once again This criminal waste of Power play overs and a nothing middle order would have cost Pakistan
two matches in a the row. Today Mr. Babar was below even run a ball during the PP. He must come at no.3 it will cost Pakistan badly sooner or later.

Fakhar is not a no.3 and he looks to be in good touch must be sent as opener will also benefit from left right combination.

Talking about stats and comprehension or maybe deadwood

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Do you really enjoy embarrassing yourself. If read your own sentence you will die laughing or crying.

Once again This criminal waste of Power play overs and a nothing middle order would have cost Pakistan
two matches in a the row. Today Mr. Babar was below even run a ball during the PP. He must come at no.3 it will cost Pakistan badly sooner or later.

Fakhar is not a no.3 and he looks to be in good touch must be sent as opener will also benefit from left right combination.

Talking about stats and comprehension or maybe deadwood

Stat: Asif Ali has one of the highest strike-rates in the world in the death overs. Without Babar batting through the toughest spells of Mujeeb and Rashid there is no scenario where Asif Ali comes in at the death. He's coming in much earlier against a spinner who he does not have a very good record against anyway.

With the exception of the last shot, Babar's innings was integral to Pakistan winning the match. Despite being all at sea against Rashid and Mujeeb he played through their spells thereby keeping the lower order unexposed to spin. On top of that he took singles wherever he could and ended up finishing with an invaluable contribution.

The only person embarrassing himself is you. Because the Babar-Rizwan combo has shown all it needed to show in the last year and the India match, and the team management knows that. Nobody is going to fire every game. But like I said, on most occasions, Babar and Rizwan will. And they'll show that again in this tournament.

So you can keep living in the world where you think your name is Tyler Durden and where you think that Fakhar opening with anyone is better than Rizwan opening with Babar. But just because you think that doesn't necessarily mean it will happen.

 

[fight_club]

Stat: Asif Ali has one of the highest strike-rates in the world in the death overs. Without Babar batting through the toughest spells of Mujeeb and Rashid there is no scenario where Asif Ali comes in at the death. He's coming in much earlier against a spinner who he does not have a very good record against anyway.

With the exception of the last shot, Babar's innings was integral to Pakistan winning the match. Despite being all at sea against Rashid and Mujeeb he played through their spells thereby keeping the lower order unexposed to spin. On top of that he took singles wherever he could and ended up finishing with an invaluable contribution.

The only person embarrassing himself is you. Because the Babar-Rizwan combo has shown all it needed to show in the last year and the India match, and the team management knows that. Nobody is going to fire every game. But like I said, on most occasions, Babar and Rizwan will. And they'll show that again in this tournament.

So you can keep living in the world where you think your name is Tyler Durden and where you think that Fakhar opening with anyone is better than Rizwan opening with Babar. But just because you think that doesn't necessarily mean it will happen.

Don't blame me you asked for it.

Attaboy Lets talk about Asif ali Stats before coming into this World cup Avg 18 strike rate 133. now babar and Rizwan has better strike rate than him as per International stats. Dude, There are people who can neither make anything useful filtering stats nor have enough cricketing acumen to understand finer aspect of the game.

Did you watch today match without blinkers?? Fakhar was making best use of Power play and was going at a strike rate of 160. Mr. Babar wanted to put anchor and was not even able to rotate the strike he was that poor. He could simply come at no.3 and do that as he will not have to take risk and he has class to punish anything loose. What even you are talking about that he took the game deep is what I have been saying since the first word of this thread but you have no idea about what you have yapping ever since I
challenged you with some obvious fact and stats.

Rauf has the poorest Economy rate in the world especially in last over. he is not playing due to these stats and record but he is playing because Coaching staff and all of us who understand a little bit of cricket can see the potential. He has made some changes in his runup and looks to be in fine rythem
has been given a definite role and support.

Asif, has been picked up because of low bounce pitches he can strike it big however he is very suspect against rising shot ball and he is going to get a lot of them in semi's

Finally, When you will quit living lala land and start looking at the bigger picture then you will see how much you contradict yourself and how little sense you make with your funny post. Middle order is shambolic and Babar coming at no.3 will strengthen that. Enough of wasting power play This is T20 and not 19th century.

Finally, Tyler he got one thing right "This is your life and its ending one moment at a time" go and do better things with it than embarrassing yourself

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Don't blame me you asked for it.

Attaboy Lets talk about Asif ali Stats before coming into this World cup Avg 18 strike rate 133. now babar and Rizwan has better strike rate than him as per International stats. Dude, There are people who can neither make anything useful filtering stats nor have enough cricketing acumen to understand finer aspect of the game.

Did you watch today match without blinkers?? Fakhar was making best use of Power play and was going at a strike rate of 160. Mr. Babar wanted to put anchor and was not even able to rotate the strike he was that poor. He could simply come at no.3 and do that as he will not have to take risk and he has class to punish anything loose. What even you are talking about that he took the game deep is what I have been saying since the first word of this thread but you have no idea about what you have yapping ever since I
challenged you with some obvious fact and stats.

Rauf has the poorest Economy rate in the world especially in last over. he is not playing due to these stats and record but he is playing because Coaching staff and all of us who understand a little bit of cricket can see the potential. He has made some changes in his runup and looks to be in fine rythem
has been given a definite role and support.

Asif, has been picked up because of low bounce pitches he can strike it big however he is very suspect against rising shot ball and he is going to get a lot of them in semi's

Finally, When you will quit living lala land and start looking at the bigger picture then you will see how much you contradict yourself and how little sense you make with your funny post. Middle order is shambolic and Babar coming at no.3 will strengthen that. Enough of wasting power play This is T20 and not 19th century.

Finally, Tyler he got one thing right "This is your life and its ending one moment at a time" go and do better things with it than embarrassing yourself

Now you are just resorting to blatant lies.

Asif Ali has a death-overs SR of 147. The best among all the players playing in this tournament.

Haris Rauf has a death-overs economy rate of 8.2, the best in the world behind Bumrah. Which is the exact opposite of what you are saying.

Stats are one of the biggest reasons Pakistan are playing as well as they are playing. Like most other teams in the tournament they have focused on the match-up game, only difference is that they have executed better than any other team besides England. If Pakistan didn't pay attention to stats and match-ups like you and lived in the stoneage, then Imad Wasim wouldn't be opening the bowling & bowling in the powerplay, Hafeez wouldn't be bowling as soon as a left-hander came on, Babar and Rizwan wouldn't be opening the batting, Haris wouldn't be bowling at the death, Shaheen wouldn't be opening the bowling and Asif Ali wouldn't be deliberately shielded till the last 3-4 overs like he was today and against New Zealand.

No its not. Its one of the best in the tournament. And nothing is greater evidence of that than Pakistan's No.1 position and 3 wins out of 3; all by comprehensive margins, against three of the strongest teams in the group.

Keep living in your fantasy world. Nobody cares. This is the best batting line-up for Pakistan...for these conditions. I know it. The team management knows it. The players know it. Most of the fans know it. And if we are going to win the tournament, its going to be with this batting line-up.

 

[fight_club]

Now you are just resorting to blatant lies.

Asif Ali has a death-overs SR of 147. The best among all the players playing in this tournament.

Haris Rauf has a death-overs economy rate of 8.2, the best in the world behind Bumrah. Which is the exact opposite of what you are saying.

Stats are one of the biggest reasons Pakistan are playing as well as they are playing. Like most other teams in the tournament they have focused on the match-up game, only difference is that they have executed better than any other team besides England. If Pakistan didn't pay attention to stats and match-ups like you and lived in the stoneage, then Imad Wasim wouldn't be opening the bowling & bowling in the powerplay, Hafeez wouldn't be bowling as soon as a left-hander came on, Babar and Rizwan wouldn't be opening the batting, Haris wouldn't be bowling at the death, Shaheen wouldn't be opening the bowling and Asif Ali wouldn't be deliberately shielded till the last 3-4 overs like he was today and against New Zealand.

No its not. Its one of the best in the tournament. And nothing is greater evidence of that than Pakistan's No.1 position and 3 wins out of 3; all by comprehensive margins, against three of the strongest teams in the group.

Keep living in your fantasy world. Nobody cares. This is the best batting line-up for Pakistan...for these conditions. I know it. The team management knows it. The players know it. Most of the fans know it. And if we are going to win the tournament, its going to be with this batting line-up.

Asif ali has played at no.5 and 6 so he comes at last few overs only and he did nothing of note on multiple occasion he has been drafted in the side. Now you are relying to blatant lies many players have much better overall strike rate and career strike rate then him even in death overs. Virat has a strike rate of 191, pandya has 171 rohit has 182 pollar 175 so pls quit smoking what you are.

Yes, harris has a very good death over economy but his overall economy is one of the worst and as a bowler you are supposed to bowl 4 overs so can you enlighten me what is going good for him

As, expected you will have no answers to Farhan strike rate today in PP. Mr Babar Strite rate in PP
Only Shortsighted guy like you will miss the tree for the wood (ahem) Pakistan almost made a meal of two low scoring chases but thanks to Asif who saved its skin.

This batting line up and the order is already crumbling, huffing and puffing and those without blinkers can see it from miles. Come on give it another try I am loving it

 

[fight_club]

was going through some stuuning stats of asif ali. In 2019 he played 9 innings at avg of 10.08 strike rate of 108. Stunning isnt it

2020 he played 4 innings avg of 18 strike rate of 128.

So if we follow your thesis of stats, data etc then what ia he doing in the team???

Oh boy, pls read all your posts if you would like a neutral you would laugh your heart out