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Pakistan suffer humiliating whitewash as New Zealand seal victory in final ODI at Wellington

Good effort from the middle order to push it close after the poor effort from the top order.
 
So close yet so far. Not like 4-1 is much better than 5-0, still...

Big slap on the face of team management for dropping bechara Yamin after a 63 vs Zimbabwe in an ODI series where Zim won a few :facepalm:

Now keep him.
 
Positives: shadab, haris, nawaz, and yamin. Continue with Fahim he is a good prospect. Let go of Amir.
 
As usual the batting left too much for the tail and lost the match for us. What even more humiliating is that Pakistan is going to learn nothing from this series.
 
We scored 34 runs in the First 10 overs .... that is where we lost this Match !!!!!!
 
Nawaz serving some big humble pies to his critics. I've always maintained he's better than Imad and can actually spin the ball, plus a million times better fielder. Did the job with both bat and ball. Clutch. Yamin has also pushed his case for a starting place in the T20 team.
 
that team look better just need serfaraz as opner amin in one down . rest is good hafiz may be replace by malik
 
One of the major culprits is Sarfaraz. He doesn't have good technique, over relies on the sweep.

Haris Sohail should play ahead of Sarfaraz
 
Pathetic series for the Pakistan team.

This series really showed us how big of a loss Sherjeel Khan was for us. We need to induct another attacking opener into the team, maybe Sahibzada Farhan? Maybe Mukhtar Ahmed could be developed? We need someone that can play at a strike rate of over 100-120 in the first 10 overs. Fakhar hasn't really lit the world on fire in this series.

Fakhar Zaman needs to learn to stop throwing his wicket away. In the handful of ODIs he has played I have not once seen a bowler taking his wicket with a good ball, he usually ends up throwing it away. The middle order looks solid with Babar Azam and Haris Sohail (Thank God he finally got into the playing XI). Both need to work on their power game.

Yes, Babar Azam had a bad series, but I hope he learns from this and improves his game. He was bound to go through a bad patch at some time. The team needs another attacking opening bowler, Mohammad Amir is NOT the answer. He needs to be dropped and told to work on his line and length.

I think with a bit more work, Shadab can bat a bit up the order. Replace Hafeez potentially?

Need to retain Nawaz and Yamin (albeit Yamin's bowling needs a lot of work).
 
This is the best time for Pakistan to try out youngsters so that a stable and consistent batting lineup is identified and groomed (keeping the World Cup in mind).

All so called senior needs to be rested for good. Sarfaraz is pathetic with bat and gloves, Pakistan should look for other options.

Harris is ok but I find him a bit selfish, batting at a strike rate of 80 when the RRR was well over 8 is not acceptable. Same with Shadab, accelerated a bit late. Both these batsmen should have taken more singles and doubles right from the beginning.

Colin De Grandhomme kind of batsman would have finished this game by 47th over.
 
Pak winning CT is actually gonna hurt them in the long run. Players thinks they can loose all games till world cup and all will be forgiven.
 
A few positives that were evident from the series:-
-Hassan could've taken more wickets but was still very impressive on these small grounds. He's clearly the first name on the team sheet and has started to morph into a proper bowling allrounder.
-Faheem isnt just a bits and pieces cricketer like Bilawal Bhatti and Anwar Ali. He has proven to be a wicket taking option who can bowl in the 140s. The guy is oozing with batting potential. Some of the sixes he has hit in the death have been freakish and he definitely has the right attitude.
-Amir yamin and Mohammad nawaz have proven some of their critics (including myself) wrong with their batting performance in the 5th ODI. They dont immediately deserve a place in the starting 11 but should definitely be kept in the squad.

Now the much bigger list of cons:-
-Azhar, for as great of a batsman he has been for us in tests, looks pathetic in ODIs. He doesnt have the gears to switch between in different parts of a 50 over game and has looked clueless in every game he played.
-Babar's fall from the glory days of UAE hundreds is largely because of his inability to play the new ball in these conditions. He has been trying to poke at balls around the 4th/5th stump line and it is very reminiscent of Kohli's probelms in the 2014 tour of England. I'm confident that if he didnt have to go into bat in the first couple of overs he would have less difficulty as the ball would['ve gotten a bit older. Sadly, the incompetence of the openers meant babar practically was put into bat in the first couple overs.
-Sarfraz. Where do i begin? His problem is that he has largely been unable to get the starting 11 right. Haris is our best batsman technically yet he was not played for all the matches. Someone should really ask sarfaraz why that was the case. Persisting with Azhar and malik for so many games also meant that valuable positions were taken up that could've been given to youngsters like Haris from the beginning. In regards to his captaincy, shouting at players isnt something i personally mind, but one must have the authority to lead his troops instead of just commanding them. He needs to understand that leading by example is the best form of leadership and if he cant back his performances with the bat and with the gloves, then it will make it hard for him to lead his team.

-Amir has had a free pass into the team since asia cup 2016. He has been able to step up when it matters such as the champions trophy final and the t20 game against india in 2016, but his inability to get wickets has, imo, pushed him on to the bench. On his day, he can be the best bowler in the world, and he should definitely be persisted with, but some serious work needs to be done in regards to him bowling cutters and slower balls and not just relying on swing.
 
BDfanforever said:
Pak winning CT is actually gonna hurt them in the long run. Players thinks they can loose all games till world cup and all will be forgiven.
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I will rather prefer ICC Tournament win and I am ok with 25 consecutive one day defeats. Unlike Kiwiz and South Africans Poms who are kings of Bilateral one day wins are micky mouse in ICC Events. I am happy with my team doing good in ICC events. I give monkey peanuts to one day series. Does anyone even remember that Australia beat England 6-1 in one day series after Ashes loss in 2009? Ponting was still heavily criticized once he got back home.
 
Disappointed by Fakhar not getting a good score while Hafeez, Babar and Sarfraz failed miserably.

We should have chased down the target as the weak links such as Azhar and Malik were out.
 
Never thought i would live to see a day when a Pakistani ODI side would go down 0-5 to New Zealand. I am positively convinced now that i am getting old.
 
one of worst defeats since i am following pak cricket , really hurting
 
Pathetic effort all series and the batting all way through the series is to blame. Right now we probably have one of the best lower order batting combos around but sadly the top 6 is pathetic and worst in the world.

Haris sohail back in side and bowling been decent, also emergence of some decent all rounders are only positive notes on an overall pathetic tour.
 
I really am hurting but at least in the last 2 ODI's we showed some fight to give us confidence going into the T20 series.
 
It wasn't that humiliating actually.

At least it was important that the team improved and then we got to test a few players. We lost par koi nahi, kabhi kay din baray to kabhi ki raatain.
 
Very tough series, I think the 5-0 scoreline comes down to us playing with dead weight for so many of the games, otherwise the series would have been closer. We've definitely learned a lot about who needs to be persisted with for WC19 though.

These are the spots that should be kept the same till the World Cup

1.Fakhar Zaman - Showed flashes of his ability but kept getting himself out. Still our most reliable and attacking opener so he has to be persisted with.

2.

3.Babar Azam - Tough series for him but he should learn from it. If our openers can see off the new ball, Babar will have a much better chance at succeeding.

4.Haris Sohail - Shoud've been playing from game 1, definitely looked the most comfortable of our players. Playing him with Babar would be a solid middle 3 and 4 going forward. His bowling wasn't too bad either.

5.Sarfraz Ahmad - He needs to move into the middle order, that's what suits his game best and what the team needs. Him playing down at 6 and 7 helps no one and only increases the pressure on him when he inevitably fails in the lower order.

6.

7.Shadab Khan - Gun player. One of the first names on the team sheet and I can't wait to see how he develops.

8.Faheem Ashraf - Really impressed me with his bowling and showed flashes with his bat too. Needs to be developed for the WC.

9.Hasan Ali - Decent series for him but also good learning experience as well. Needs to be given the new ball more often so he adds that to his game as well. The batting has been a very pleasant surprise.

10.Mohammad Amir - He needs to start performing. I personally feel he needs to be persisted with just because if he does come into form it would be devastating. But he needs to start performing soon.

11.


I think that's the outline of a pretty strong team heading into the World Cup and we need to find players for those last few spots. We need a power hitting opener who can get us off to fast starts with Fakhar. We need a proper power hitter at 6 who can hit from the first ball. And we need to find a 4th seamer and opening ball partner for Amir.
 
Sarwar89 said:
I will rather prefer ICC Tournament win and I am ok with 25 consecutive one day defeats. Unlike Kiwiz and South Africans Poms who are kings of Bilateral one day wins are micky mouse in ICC Events. I am happy with my team doing good in ICC events. I give monkey peanuts to one day series. Does anyone even remember that Australia beat England 6-1 in one day series after Ashes loss in 2009? Ponting was still heavily criticized once he got back home.
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Lol what a feeble attitude towards supporting your team.
 
Overall Performance:
Fielding -> Above Average
Bowling -> Below Average
Batting -> Very Very Below Average

Team management seriously need to rethink about selection of some of the players. Batting has always been a concern but some of the batsmen truely were out of dept. Babar has ben real dissapointment. Sarfi needs a reality check. Shoaib & Prof, the less I say the better. Fakar, hit and miss. Opening slot still main concern after so many years we are still yet to find decent opening pair.
 
It was a loss but Pakistan fought today, so I have issue with the word humiliating in the title. Today again the bottom 5 fought and TRIED to close down the target which they did.

Showed positive attitude, mental toughness which is something to be expected from seniors. Again Hafeez and Azam flunked, again Pakistan was 57 for 5. But today all the youngsters came in and fought for their country's prestige. Fahim and Yamin, Shadab and Nawaz. Really impressed with these guys today. Bowling and batting both felt a team was playing today.
 
Ye toh honahi tha.... Kane williamson was the difference. But I must say, new team... we should not push them too much. Get Hafeez out of the team.
 
Sometimes failure is needed to realize your weaknesses and what to do to fix them. Now we know the real worth of Azhar, Hafeez and Malik.


We finally got to play Sohail who repaid our trust in him. We found out Fahim can crank it up and bring the heat when required, quite an able third seamer, also was our best bowler in this tour - the only bowler who genuinely troubled the Kiwis. We realized that Junaid Khan is severely under-rated and an important cog in this bowling attack. We continued to polish and shine the diamond that is Shadab. This boy really is ATG material if he keeps his head down and keeps performing. We realized that Babar isn't all that and cannot rely on him, infact it showed the overall weakness of the batting lineup when we didn't get Babar's runs. We realized the need for a number six who can resurrect a sinking ship or go hell to leather as required.



Please note, by we I mean the fans and posters of PP. In the minds of Mickey, Inzi and Sarfaraz all is well and nothing needs to be changed.
 
Extremely disappointing. Whilst I predicted a NZ series win, I don't think anyone foresaw such a one sided series. The lack of power in our batting compared to NZ is alarming and a role reversal from the 1990s and 2000s.

We competed in patches but the gap in quality proved too much in the end. Our top order getting blown away time and again meant our lower order had too much to do. It made a mockery of the claim Azhar would provide "stability" as opener !

The position of Malik and Azhar is untenable. Azhar is an anachronism for today's LOI cricket whilst Malik's deficiencies against pace outside Asia were once again exposed to nobody's surprise.

We did see Haris Sohail but only after the series was lost. His assured fifties were a rare positive and whilst his SR wasn't great - we can cut some slack given the awful positions he came into bat. For me, he has totally outshone Babar Azam recently - cast your mind back to the SL Test series. Babar needs to sort his head - his confidence has evaporated and these wafts outside off stump with no feet movement will get him in trouble in seaming conditions in Ireland and England.

Shadab Khan and Fahim Ashraf showed more guts than their more experienced teammates and deserved better than being on the receiving end of a 5-0 whitewash. Rumman Raees is out of his depth in longer forms and should stick to T20 where his variations are better served. Aamer Yamin was ineffectual with the ball but showed fight with the bat. Mohammad Nawaz was economical without ever looking like taking wickets - still doubt his effectiveness outside Asia.

Overall, this series showed why "persisting with a winning team" isn't always the best idea. Mediocre players can lift their game for a few matches in a tournament or beat up on Sri Lanka but when tested against quality opponents they're exposed. We could've been ruthless after the CT but chose to keep these passengers. Thanks to PCB's inept scheduling, we have an eternity before our next ODI assignment to see what changes will be made.
 
Did Pakistan team management learn after 0-3 loss to Bangladesh after world cup 2015?
 
The problem for most players is consistency. Players like Ahmed Shehzad, Umar Akmal, Asad Shafiq and now Babar Azam have epitomized this problem. Get worked over by the opposition after initial success and no longer grow from strength to strength.
 
Sarwar89 said:
I will rather prefer ICC Tournament win and I am ok with 25 consecutive one day defeats. Unlike Kiwiz and South Africans Poms who are kings of Bilateral one day wins are micky mouse in ICC Events. I am happy with my team doing good in ICC events. I give monkey peanuts to one day series. Does anyone even remember that Australia beat England 6-1 in one day series after Ashes loss in 2009? Ponting was still heavily criticized once he got back home.
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If you are not winning on a constant basis/or winning atleast half of the matches you play, you go onto the big tournament with a "Looser" mentality. Just because Pak won CT this time around, don't expect it to happen over and over again if the team continues to perform like this. Also, if you are loosing bileteral ODI/T20 matches on a regular basis, its back to the qualifier for you guys, surely you don't want that either. You guys almost didn't even qualify for CT and was fighting over the last 2 spot between BD and WI. I can't figure out the logic behind your post.
 
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light said:
If you are not winning on a constant basis/or winning atleast half of the matches you play, you go onto the big tournament with a "Looser" mentality. Just because Pak won CT this time around, don't expect it to happen over and over again if the team continues to perform like this. Also, if you are loosing bileteral ODI/T20 matches on a regular basis, its back to the qualifier for you guys, surely you don't want that either. You guys almost didn't even qualify for CT and was fighting over the last 2 spot between BD and WI. I can't figure out the logic behind your post.
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First of all my post was written in English, so it was easy to understand the logic.
I have been watching South Africa/England/New Zealand for decades, I know exactly how many meaningless bilaterals they have won and I know when it really matters they simply do not turn up. This New zealand side was knocked out by Bangladesh in ICC Champions Trophy. Next Cricket world cup is happening in England. Pakistan won ICC T20/ICC Champions trophy in England 2009/17. They also played world cup final in England in 1999 and Semi finals in 79/83.
Our track record in England is very good. I give monkey peanuts to our performanes in New Zealand. We are not going there for Major Tournament till T20 World cup in in 2020 and even that one will be inAus i think. History does not remember bi-laterals. History only remembers ICC Events.
Do you remember back in 1997-98 South Africa under Cronje won 5 consecutive one dayers against Australia of Steven Waugh ? End Result was that Aussies still won the famous Semi final of 1999 curtosy of super six win.
Do you remember before 1983 Worldcup final between India and West indies, the ODI record was 85/15% in Westindies favor. No-body remembers it, we only remember 83 finalas their most famous meeting.
Do you remember that Pakistan beat India 4-1 in the winter of 1998 sahara cup and also beat them in Sharjah cup final of 1999 and another cup final in India during same month. But 3 months later In World cup 1999 match India comfortably beat Pakistan at Old Trafford. So bilaterals or small cup finals are meaningless.
Only TEST cricket matters in Bilaterals because TEST cricket matters a lot in history books. And it was disappointing to see Pakistan losing 2-0 in Tests vs Kiwiz in Nov 2016. For this useless one day series i do not care.
 
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Disappointing, but hope we learn from our mistakes. Was a bit of an eye opener. Our third pacer doesn't seem good enough (or Amir our second pacer, hopefully he'll improve), and our batting is weak. Should look to strengthen these areas. And Sarfraz should be batting higher.

In the next series I'd like to test out a few more batsmen, I'd go with this line up:

1. Fakhar
2. Haris
3. Babar
4. Saad Ali
5. Sarfraz
6. Talat
7. Maqsood
8. Fahim/Nawaz/Junaid/Usman
9. Shadab
10. Amir
11. Hasan

I don't know who should be 3rd pacer (or 2nd spin bowler). Maybe should be changed depending on conditions. If they're all the same bowling level, I'd probably go with Fahim. Currently however none of the 3rd pacer bowling standards is up to par, Hasan looks a class apart from them (and even Amir when he steps it up).
 
Sarwar89 said:
First of all my post was written in English, so it was easy to understand the logic.
.
Click to expand...

You didn't bother reading anything in my post have you? Instead you went out on a full fledge rampage which has nothing to do with my post and for some reason the English language has been brough up aswell. I invite you reread what I wrote and if you have a better answer for that, please by all means, reply again. The last two sentences of my previous response was quite the stand out.
 
I think it was telling that Azhar wasn't selected for the last 2 games. In the 4th one a make shift opener was selected ahead of him. And in the last game a player was picked who just arrived in the country and hadn't even had a chance to get use to the conditions. Don't see him being selected for the next series. Which is the correct decision . He isn't a LO player at all.

Depending on our batsmen performance in the T20s, Malik could be dropped .
 
Hasan123 said:
I think it was telling that Azhar wasn't selected for the last 2 games. In the 4th one a make shift opener was selected ahead of him. And in the last game a player was picked who just arrived in the country and hadn't even had a chance to get use to the conditions. Don't see him being selected for the next series. Which is the correct decision . He isn't a LO player at all.

Depending on our batsmen performance in the T20s, Malik could be dropped .
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone thought he was ever going to be a long term solution in ODI's. But he had a good CT so couldn't ignore him after that, I expect him to be dropped for the next series. He should stick to tests cos he's awesome in that format.
 
shady said:
Very tough series, I think the 5-0 scoreline comes down to us playing with dead weight for so many of the games, otherwise the series would have been closer. We've definitely learned a lot about who needs to be persisted with for WC19 though.

These are the spots that should be kept the same till the World Cup

1.Fakhar Zaman - Showed flashes of his ability but kept getting himself out. Still our most reliable and attacking opener so he has to be persisted with.

2.

3.Babar Azam - Tough series for him but he should learn from it. If our openers can see off the new ball, Babar will have a much better chance at succeeding.

4.Haris Sohail - Shoud've been playing from game 1, definitely looked the most comfortable of our players. Playing him with Babar would be a solid middle 3 and 4 going forward. His bowling wasn't too bad either.

5.Sarfraz Ahmad - He needs to move into the middle order, that's what suits his game best and what the team needs. Him playing down at 6 and 7 helps no one and only increases the pressure on him when he inevitably fails in the lower order.

6.

7.Shadab Khan - Gun player. One of the first names on the team sheet and I can't wait to see how he develops.

8.Faheem Ashraf - Really impressed me with his bowling and showed flashes with his bat too. Needs to be developed for the WC.

9.Hasan Ali - Decent series for him but also good learning experience as well. Needs to be given the new ball more often so he adds that to his game as well. The batting has been a very pleasant surprise.

10.Mohammad Amir - He needs to start performing. I personally feel he needs to be persisted with just because if he does come into form it would be devastating. But he needs to start performing soon.

11.


I think that's the outline of a pretty strong team heading into the World Cup and we need to find players for those last few spots. We need a power hitting opener who can get us off to fast starts with Fakhar. We need a proper power hitter at 6 who can hit from the first ball. And we need to find a 4th seamer and opening ball partner for Amir.
Click to expand...






I completely agree. In terms of players,


Opener: Sharjeel, Sahibzada Farhan, Mukhtar Ahmed (Preference in that order.

6: I'd go Shadab at 6. I've seen enough from him to be confident in his batting abilities. However, that still leaves a gap in that lower order. I'd put Shadab at 6, and Faheem Ashraf at 7 which leaves a number 8.

Imad Wasim - Depends on the opposition and venue. He's good against non subcontinental teams, and he's no mug with the bat, even if he hasn't developed into the lower order slogger that we thought he would.
Nawaz- - Bowled well in final ODI, good fielder, batted well too.
Hafeez - Hafeez the bowler. Won't bat as he's at 8, but I think its been undervalued how important he was to our bowling in our Champions Trophy triumph. In England, etc, where we might only need Shadab (and Haris Sohail), Aamir Yamin, who played well in the final ODI.
Left field option: Raza Hasan. An excellent left arm spinner. Turns it loads. Also no mug with the bat.

11: Junaid Khan. Someone mentioned above how undervalued he is to our bowling attack. Also worth mentioning that Rumman Raees while he didn't play well, was our leading wicket taker among pace bowlers this series I think? Also, other options include Usman Khan when he returns, as well has left-field decisions such as Shaheen Shah, however the think tank in their infinite wisdom would never do this.
 
hadi123 said:
I don't think anyone thought he was ever going to be a long term solution in ODI's. But he had a good CT so couldn't ignore him after that, I expect him to be dropped for the next series. He should stick to tests cos he's awesome in that format.
Click to expand...


He was being selected with an eye for the WC in England. Which was incorrect as he just doesn't have the game for ODI cricket.
 
Had great expectations from this tour :facepalm:
Lesson learnt : Never have any expectations from PCT
 
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