Pakistan Test teams of 1980's vs Pakistan Test team of 1990's

[Heisenberg111]

Pakistan's greatest test sides are from the 80's and the 90's, but which one is better? I would say the 90's side purely because of the great away record Pakistan had in that decade. Pakistan played 42 away matches in that decade won 18, lost 14, W/L ratio of 1.285. I know that 80's Pakistan was unbeatable at home but they didn't have a great record away, while 90's Pakistan lost a lot of home series but they were generally a very feared side whenever they toured. I remember in 1999, Aussie press calling the Pakistan Australia test series a clash of the titans and a formidable challenge for OZ, even though Australia had beaten Pakistan away the previous year. So who do you think were the better of the two sides.

 

[Markhor]

I think any Test team has to take care of home base first. Pakistan lost winnable series to Sri Lanka, South Africa and even Zimbabwe at home in the 90s.

The 80s team was more resilient despite lacking the naturally gifted players of the 90s. It didn't lose a single home series after 1980, and competed well enough away.

We beat England in 1987 who'd just beaten Australia in their backyard. Nobody beat India between 1987-2000 except us. We also were the only team to draw with an ATG West Indies team in the Caribbean in the 1980s.

 

[gazza619]

Team of 90s was more talented but stained by infighting and match fixing.

 

[Heisenberg111]

I think any Test team has to take care of home base first. Pakistan lost winnable series to Sri Lanka, South Africa and even Zimbabwe at home in the 90s.

The 80s team was more resilient despite lacking the naturally gifted players of the 90s. It didn't lose a single home series after 1980, and competed well enough away.

We beat England in 1987 who'd just beaten Australia in their backyard. Nobody beat India between 1987-2000 except us. We also were the only team to draw with an ATG West Indies team in the Caribbean in the 1980s.

I agree with you, except I rate away performances. Pak team of 90's was truly a weird one. Generally you expect teams to be lions at home and lambs away, but 90's Pakistan was actually the reverse. 80's team only won 6 matches away at a W/L ratio of 0.58, not great by any means. 90's team beat England twice, NZ thrice, won 2 matches in India, drew a series in South Africa and even won a match in Australia.

 

[A.A.Z]

Pakistan's greatest test sides are from the 80's and the 90's, but which one is better? I would say the 90's side purely because of the great away record Pakistan had in that decade. Pakistan played 42 away matches in that decade won 18, lost 14, W/L ratio of 1.285. I know that 80's Pakistan was unbeatable at home but they didn't have a great record away, while 90's Pakistan lost a lot of home series but they were generally a very feared side whenever they toured. I remember in 1999, Aussie press calling the Pakistan Australia test series a clash of the titans and a formidable challenge for OZ, even though Australia had beaten Pakistan away the previous year. So who do you think were the better of the two sides.

You can't judge a test team on on the basis of matches they won or lost. You have to look at it from a series basis as there were a lot more draws back then. A 1-0 result in a 5 match test series may only mean one win in 5 matches but it's actually a historic series win.

1980's was a far more disciplined team which never lost at home after the turn of the decade. Historic series wins in India and England. Only team to draw a series against the GOAT Windies teams.

However the team was heavily reliant on a one man bowling attack in Imran Khan while Qadir was only effective in certain conditions and Wasim Akram was very young when he emerged towards the end of the decade. Qasim and Tauseef made it a much more potent attack in Asian conditions though.

Batting was completely dependent on Miandad after the retirements of the stalwarts of the 1970's batting lineup towards the beginning of the decade. 1970's was our strongest ever test batting with all bases covered even more so than the 2000's with Younis, Yousuf and Inzi but the openers were cannon fodder apart from Taufeeq for a bit. But by the mid 1980's Miandad was single-handedly carrying the batting with decent support from Imran and a little bit from Mohsin, Mudassar and a young Salim Malik.

1990's there was too much infighting, captaincy changes, match-fixing and focus on limited overs cost the team. The team was a much stronger team man to man but was extremely indisciplined. There were still series wins in England and we won 2 out of 3 tests in India in 1999 including the Asian Test Championship as well as our last test win in Australia.

Bowling attack was probably the best ever for limited overs but there was no discipline to be ruthless and consistent in tests. Even then the bowling attack was scary with the W's and later Shoaib and Saqlain. Mushtaq also contributed to away wins in tough conditions.

The batting was also much stronger with Saeed Anwar, Inzi and Salim decently supported by Ijaz and Aamir. But this is when the culture of unfathomable batting collapses began which can be because there was no Miandad to fight till he died on the pitch or because of something far more sinister. Probably both. The frequent collapses really cost us and losing home series to the likes of Zimbabwe was inexcusable even if it was fixed.

You can't judge a players ability on statistics but you have to judge his career on stats. Similarly the 1990's team may have become the GOAT test team based on ability if the environment was even a little bit more professional or if Imran had played on till 50 but in the end it doesn't even match the 1980's team in terms of series results home and away.

 

[Heisenberg111]

Team of 90s was more talented but stained by infighting and match fixing.

Yup, thats what I think hampered their performances at home. Otherwise, there is no reason to lose to Zimbabwe at home, when Pak beat them twice away in the same decade. Pak also drew with NZ at home, when they beat them thrice away in the same decade. Truly inexplicable.

 

[Heisenberg111]

You can't judge a test team on on the basis of matches they won or lost. You have to look at it from a series basis as there were a lot more draws back then. A 1-0 result in a 5 match test series may only mean one win in 5 matches but it's actually a historic series win.

1980's was a far more disciplined team which never lost at home after the turn of the decade. Historic series wins in India and England. Only team to draw a series against the GOAT Windies teams.

However the team was heavily reliant on a one man bowling attack in Imran Khan while Qadir was only effective in certain conditions and Wasim Akram was very young when he emerged towards the end of the decade. Qasim and Tauseef made it a much more potent attack in Asian conditions though.

Batting was completely dependent on Miandad after the retirements of the stalwarts of the 1970's batting lineup towards the beginning of the decade. 1970's was our strongest ever test batting with all bases covered even more so than the 2000's with Younis, Yousuf and Inzi but the openers were cannon fodder apart from Taufeeq for a bit. But by the mid 1980's Miandad was single-handedly carrying the batting with decent support from Imran and a little bit from Mohsin, Mudassar and a young Salim Malik.

1990's there was too much infighting, captaincy changes, match-fixing and focus on limited overs cost the team. The team was a much stronger team man to man but was extremely indisciplined. There were still series wins in England and we won 2 out of 3 tests in India in 1999 including the Asian Test Championship as well as our last test win in Australia.

Bowling attack was probably the best ever for limited overs but there was no discipline to be ruthless and consistent in tests. Even then the bowling attack was scary with the W's and later Shoaib and Saqlain. Mushtaq also contributed to away wins in tough conditions.

The batting was also much stronger with Saeed Anwar, Inzi and Salim decently supported by Ijaz and Aamir. But this is when the culture of unfathomable batting collapses began which can be because there was no Miandad to fight till he died on the pitch or because of something far more sinister. Probably both. The frequent collapses really cost us and losing home series to the likes of Zimbabwe was inexcusable even if it was fixed.

You can't judge a players ability on statistics but you have to judge his career on stats. Similarly the 1990's team may have become the GOAT test team based on ability if the environment was even a little bit more professional or if Imran had played on till 50 but in the end it doesn't even match the 1980's team in terms of series results home and away.

Great post, I agree mostly, but 90's team's away series results dwarves 80's away series results. 80's Pakistan was unable to win in NZ. 90's Pakistan managed it thrice. Also there was no South Africa in the 80's, but 90's Pak also drew with South Africa in 1998 against a very strong South African side. Overall its a matter of preference. If you prefer home series you will vote for 80's team, but if you prefer away series you will vote for the 90's side.

 

[Junaids]

Great post, I agree mostly, but 90's team's away series results dwarves 80's away series results. 80's Pakistan was unable to win in NZ. 90's Pakistan managed it thrice. Also there was no South Africa in the 80's, but 90's Pak also drew with South Africa in 1998 against a very strong South African side. Overall its a matter of preference. If you prefer home series you will vote for 80's team, but if you prefer away series you will vote for the 90's side.

It’s easier to win in NZ when their strike bowler is Danny Morrison than when it’s Richard Hadlee!

 

[Heisenberg111]

It’s easier to win in NZ when their strike bowler is Danny Morrison than when it’s Richard Hadlee!

I know 90's NZ was weaker, but still they had a competitive side at home. A strong Australian team failed to win there in 1993.

 

[szrana007]

Didn't 80's team fail to win in Sri Lanka? Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Heisenberg111]

Didn't 80's team fail to win in Sri Lanka? Correct me if I am wrong.

Pakistan toured Sri Lanka in 1986, I think. Series was drawn 1-1

 

[szrana007]

Pakistan toured Sri Lanka in 1986, I think. Series was drawn 1-1

Thanks. From memory Pak did win in Lanka in the 90's which the overrated 80's team didn't manage to accomplish.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Thanks. From memory Pak did win in Lanka in the 90's which the overrated 80's team didn't manage to accomplish.

Don't let soundbites on a test lost in Sri Lanka shape your narrative.

From what I recall, Pakistan in 80's were formidable but they did have a big disadvantage - their greatest player Imran Khan didn't play for 2 1/2 years straight due to hamstring injury. He also missed many series by picking and choosing where he played. In addition, he played many matches purely as a batsman. When he was fully present, Pakistan were a vastly different team.

I recall him not playing 6 tests (3 home, 3 away, all drawn vs India) in early 80's, playing vs Australia in Australia only as batsmen (doing very well too), not playing vs NZ at home and away (when Wasim Akram was unveiled) and many other series.

Whatever his reasons, Pakistan's record would have been vastly different in the 80's than it is today. I do know his captaincy record shows a lot of draws too - but much of it has been tainted by his own fitness issues and more importantly, the fact that he was the only real 'bowler' in the team for 6/10th of that decade (apart from Qadir) until Akram showed up.

Having said all that, I'd put 90s team above 80's in terms of having world class players in almost every position in the team - which 80's team didn't have. But what's the point of all that when the team didn't play as a team for majority of that decade for so many issues? It is the biggest lost decade in Pakistan's cricketing history.

If the 80's and 90's faced each other, with a fully fit Imran leading the 80's team, I'd put my money on the 80's team.

 

[szrana007]

Don't let soundbites on a test lost in Sri Lanka shape your narrative.

From what I recall, Pakistan in 80's were formidable but they did have a big disadvantage - their greatest player Imran Khan didn't play for 2 1/2 years straight due to hamstring injury. He also missed many series by picking and choosing where he played. In addition, he played many matches purely as a batsman. When he was fully present, Pakistan were a vastly different team.

I recall him not playing 6 tests (3 home, 3 away, all drawn vs India) in early 80's, playing vs Australia in Australia only as batsmen (doing very well too), not playing vs NZ at home and away (when Wasim Akram was unveiled) and many other series.

Whatever his reasons, Pakistan's record would have been vastly different in the 80's than it is today. I do know his captaincy record shows a lot of draws too - but much of it has been tainted by his own fitness issues and more importantly, the fact that he was the only real 'bowler' in the team for 6/10th of that decade (apart from Qadir) until Akram showed up.

Having said all that, I'd put 90s team above 80's in terms of having world class players in almost every position in the team - which 80's team didn't have. But what's the point of all that when the team didn't play as a team for majority of that decade for so many issues? It is the biggest lost decade in Pakistan's cricketing history.

If the 80's and 90's faced each other, with a fully fit Imran leading the 80's team, I'd put my money on the 80's team.

I know Imran Kahn was a good captain and thats what Pak team of the 90's lacked, a good leader who made them play as a unit. I think Wasim Akram was closest to Imran in that regard. Under him Pak played some excellent cricket in the 90s. But I will still take 90's team any day of the week and I will pay to watch them unlike the 80's team. I guess the 80's team didn't have many excitable characters.

 

[Heisenberg111]

Thanks. From memory Pak did win in Lanka in the 90's which the overrated 80's team didn't manage to accomplish.

Even though, I prefer the 90's team. I won't call 80's team overrated. They were not as gifted as the 90's side, but were still a very strong team played well as a unit and punched above their weight.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

I know Imran Kahn was a good captain and thats what Pak team of the 90's lacked, a good leader who made them play as a unit. I think Wasim Akram was closest to Imran in that regard. Under him Pak played some excellent cricket in the 90s. But I will still take 90's team any day of the week and I will pay to watch them unlike the 80's team. I guess the 80's team didn't have many excitable characters.

I think best to look at data and make up our minds.

Let's look at Pakistan teams that played vs India in 3rd Test, Nagpur, Oct 5 - Oct 10 1983:

Mohsin Khan
Shoaib Mohammad
Saleem Malik
Javed Miandad
Zaheer Abbas (c)
Mudassar Nazar
Wasim Raja
Wasim Bari †
Tahir Naqqash
Mohammad Nazir
Azeem Hafeez

A fast bowling line up of Tahir Naqqash and Azeem Hafeez and slow bowling of Mohammad Nazir. Stuff of dreams. Batting looks more exciting although it was the most painful of test batting ever on display. Overall, a dreadful team.
India: 245 & 262/8d
Pakistan (8 ov, target 186)
322 & 42/1
Match drawn

Now lets look at 1st Test, Georgetown, Apr 2 - Apr 6 1988, Pakistan tour of West Indies.

Mudassar Nazar
Ramiz Raja
Shoaib Mohammad
Javed Miandad
Saleem Malik
Ijaz Ahmed
Imran Khan (c)
Saleem Yousuf †
Ijaz Faqih
Abdul Qadir
Wasim Akram

Bowling looks much better - with Imran, Akram and Qadir but also allrounders like Ijaz Faqih, Mudassar and Saleem Malik filling in as 5th bowlers. Batting looks better and with depth because of all rounders.

An amazing test mach though.

West Indies 292 & 172

Pakistan (3.3 ov, target 30)
435 & 32/1
Pakistan won by 9 wickets

But overall, one can see in the 80's, the team was really struggling with bowling and batting resources were either middling or getting old - many had debuted in the 70s.

Now let's look at 1st Test, London, Jul 25 - Jul 29 1996, Pakistan tour of England. This was long after Imran was gone and Miandad had recently retired.

Aamer Sohail
Saeed Anwar
Ijaz Ahmed
Inzamam-ul-Haq
Saleem Malik
Shadab Kabir
Wasim Akram (c)
Rashid Latif †
Mushtaq Ahmed
Waqar Younis
Ata-ur-Rehman

I'd pay to watch Anwar, Inzamam, Wasim, Waqar, Mushtaq even today - when they are in their 50's . Overall quite an exciting team even if it contains Ata-ur-Rehman and Shadab Kabir too -who were decent.

Match in favor of Pakistan.
Pakistan: 340 & 352/5d
England (97.1 ov, target 408)
285 & 243
Pakistan won by 164 runs

And finally let's look at 1st Test, Chennai, Jan 28 - Jan 31 1999, Pakistan tour of India

Saeed Anwar
Shahid Afridi
Ijaz Ahmed
Inzamam-ul-Haq
Mohammad Yousuf
Saleem Malik
Moin Khan †
Wasim Akram (c)
Saqlain Mushtaq
Nadeem Khan
Waqar Younis

What a line up - Anwar, Afridi, Yousuf, Inzamam, Wasim, Waqar, Mushtaq. Criminal this team didn't dominate the world.

An amazing match too.

Pakistan
238 & 286
India (95.2 ov, target 271)
254 & 258

Overall, I'd wager behind the 99 team (Shoaib hadn't shown up yet) but only just - because of the Imran factor. However, I don't know which 90's team would turn up on the day - the one which was determined to win for Pakistan or the one where players were conspiring against each other and fixing matches.

 

[szrana007]

I think best to look at data and make up our minds.

Let's look at Pakistan teams that played vs India in 3rd Test, Nagpur, Oct 5 - Oct 10 1983:

Mohsin Khan
Shoaib Mohammad
Saleem Malik
Javed Miandad
Zaheer Abbas (c)
Mudassar Nazar
Wasim Raja
Wasim Bari †
Tahir Naqqash
Mohammad Nazir
Azeem Hafeez

A fast bowling line up of Tahir Naqqash and Azeem Hafeez and slow bowling of Mohammad Nazir. Stuff of dreams. Batting looks more exciting although it was the most painful of test batting ever on display. Overall, a dreadful team.
India: 245 & 262/8d
Pakistan (8 ov, target 186)
322 & 42/1
Match drawn

Now lets look at 1st Test, Georgetown, Apr 2 - Apr 6 1988, Pakistan tour of West Indies.

Mudassar Nazar
Ramiz Raja
Shoaib Mohammad
Javed Miandad
Saleem Malik
Ijaz Ahmed
Imran Khan (c)
Saleem Yousuf †
Ijaz Faqih
Abdul Qadir
Wasim Akram

Bowling looks much better - with Imran, Akram and Qadir but also allrounders like Ijaz Faqih, Mudassar and Saleem Malik filling in as 5th bowlers. Batting looks better and with depth because of all rounders.

An amazing test mach though.

West Indies 292 & 172

Pakistan (3.3 ov, target 30)
435 & 32/1
Pakistan won by 9 wickets

But overall, one can see in the 80's, the team was really struggling with bowling and batting resources were either middling or getting old - many had debuted in the 70s.

Now let's look at 1st Test, London, Jul 25 - Jul 29 1996, Pakistan tour of England. This was long after Imran was gone and Miandad had recently retired.

Aamer Sohail
Saeed Anwar
Ijaz Ahmed
Inzamam-ul-Haq
Saleem Malik
Shadab Kabir
Wasim Akram (c)
Rashid Latif †
Mushtaq Ahmed
Waqar Younis
Ata-ur-Rehman

I'd pay to watch Anwar, Inzamam, Wasim, Waqar, Mushtaq even today - when they are in their 50's . Overall quite an exciting team even if it contains Ata-ur-Rehman and Shadab Kabir too -who were decent.

Match in favor of Pakistan.
Pakistan: 340 & 352/5d
England (97.1 ov, target 408)
285 & 243
Pakistan won by 164 runs

And finally let's look at 1st Test, Chennai, Jan 28 - Jan 31 1999, Pakistan tour of India

Saeed Anwar
Shahid Afridi
Ijaz Ahmed
Inzamam-ul-Haq
Mohammad Yousuf
Saleem Malik
Moin Khan †
Wasim Akram (c)
Saqlain Mushtaq
Nadeem Khan
Waqar Younis

What a line up - Anwar, Afridi, Yousuf, Inzamam, Wasim, Waqar, Mushtaq. Criminal this team didn't dominate the world.

An amazing match too.

Pakistan
238 & 286
India (95.2 ov, target 271)
254 & 258

Overall, I'd wager behind the 99 team (Shoaib hadn't shown up yet) but only just - because of the Imran factor. However, I don't know which 90's team would turn up on the day - the one which was determined to win for Pakistan or the one where players were conspiring against each other and fixing matches.

Excellent post. I concur with everything you said.

 

[subshakerz]

The Pakistani team of the 90s was stronger on paper, but were also capable of completely collapsing away against tough opposition, as they did against WI in 93 and Australia in 99.

 

[Heisenberg111]

The Pakistani team of the 90s was stronger on paper, but were also capable of completely collapsing away against tough opposition, as they did against WI in 93 and Australia in 99.

Yeah, that 93 series against WI was a real downer. That series was going to decide the unofficial world test championship between the two best teams, but I guess, Pakistan messed up their chances, when they removed Javed Miandad from captaincy and made Wasim Akram the new skipper.

 

[Bhaijaan]

It's a very difficult decision one of the teams had himmat and hoshyari but tagdapan and janbaazi was more in the other team. Besides none of the teams had someone like Mohammad Hafeez. Vol 3.0 to tilt the needle in their favour conclusively.

With a bullet to my head, i will say 80s because Immy The Great

 

[Markhor]

Didn't 80's team fail to win in Sri Lanka? Correct me if I am wrong.

Patriotic umpires in that 1986 series. Thank god for neutral umpires.