Pakistan, Turkey mull joint TV series Turk Lala

[Lonewarrior]

Pakistan and Turkey are considering working on a joint project to produce a historical TV series, according to an official statement issued by Pakistani premier's office.

The two sides also discussed the proposed joint TV series dubbed Turk Lala, which is to highlight the role played by Muslims of the sub-continent during the Balkan War.

Most of the Muslims who helped the Turkish side travelled from present-day Pakistan under the Khilafat Movement flag -- a campaign to support the Ottoman Empire in the early 20th century.

Turkey and Pakistan enjoy historic relations thanks to the help extended during Turkey's War of Liberation.

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/pakistan-turkey-mull-joint-tv-series-turk-lala/2102692

 

[guna]

Erdogan and Imran Khan are the best to lead Khilafat in 2021. TV series is just the beginning.

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

Government level talks for a TV series? Propaganda much?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Government level talks for a TV series? Propaganda much?

Pakistan's entertainment industry is languishing in the doldrums and has been for decades. Government help should be seen like a subsidy to help it get back on it's feet, once it is up and running hopefully it would become self sufficient and successful like the worldwide smash hit show Dirilis Ertugrul which was also overseen by the Turkish PM Erdogan.

 

[gani999]

The topic is quite interesting from a historical perspective.

The title 'Turk Lala' sounds like the Turkish counterpart of Shahid Afridi, if at all they end up having a cricket team one day.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Can't determine on which side is the turkish delegation sitting. All look pakistanis.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Erdogan and Imran Khan are the best to lead Khilafat in 2021. TV series is just the beginning.

You are actually correct. Turkey and Pakistan together will one day rule the Muslim world. I just wish it happens soon, kick out the Arab dictators and free the world. It will happen once the Yanks become bankrupt and have to leave the region along with their bases.

 

[guna]

Can't determine on which side is the turkish delegation sitting. All look pakistanis.

Obvioulsy the people sitting close to Imran Khan are Turkish. The first two on either side of Imran. The rest of them are Pakistanis. They look Desi to me.

 

[guna]

You are actually correct. Turkey and Pakistan together will one day rule the Muslim world. I just wish it happens soon, kick out the Arab dictators and free the world. It will happen once the Yanks become bankrupt and have to leave the region along with their bases.

I can easily tell who is Turkish and who is Pakistani. May be some Pathans can look like Turks. But it is still easy to tell them apart.

 

[KB]

The topic is quite interesting from a historical perspective.

Indeed it is.

The Khilafat movement elicited strong emotions among many Indian Muslims. Many factors were at play, but I think central was the sense of civilisational decline and rupture from the past. Turkey represented the last great fragment of Muslim civilisation, a living symbol of a former Islamic glory.

A poem by Shibli Nomani, on the tumult (hungama) of the Balkans, brings to life this feeling. Though written before the War of Independence, against the background of the Tripolitan and Balkan wars, it is a lament for the fate of Turkey and what it meant for the Muslim community more widely. Each couplet of Shibli’s poem ends with “how long” (kab tak). How long will the Ottoman Empire, which he refers to as a guttering candle (Chiragh-e kashta), last? Morocco has gone, Persia has gone; how long will Turkey - the ‘sick man of Europe’ (mariz-e sakht jan) - last? How long will the sighs of the oppressed be able to withstand the flood of misery coming from the Balkans? In the final couplet he asks if he wants to migrate, there is still Syria, Najd and Kairouan, but for how long?

Margrit Pernau has argued that in the aftermath of the 1857 Rebellion, there was an intensification of emotion in Muslim discourse. There was a shift from an emphasis on adl, that is balance, harmony, to josh, that is fervour, ebullience. The Khilafat movement was certainly suffused by josh. Central figures in the Khilafat drama were, of course, the Ali brothers. Here is a poem that became especially famous from that period and was recited for many years afterwards:

boli amma Muhammad Ali ki
jaan beta khilafat pe de do
saath tere hai Shaukat Ali bhi
jaan beta khilafat pe de do
buddhi amma ka kuchh gham na karna
kalma padh kar khilafat par marna
puure iss imtehaan mein utarna
jaan beta khilafat pe de do
hote mere agar saat bete
karti sab ko khilafat pe sadqe
hain yahin deen-e-Ahmed ke raste
jaan beta khilafat pe de do

[So spoke Muhammad Ali’s mother / give your life, son, for Khilafat / with you is Shaukat Ali, too/ give your life, son, for Khilafat / do not give this old mother any cause for sorrow / confess your faith; die for Khilafat / for this test, give absolutely your all / give your life, son, for Khilafat / even if I had seven sons / I would sacrifice them all for Khilafat / for this is the way of the Prophet / give your life, son, for Khilafat]

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

You are actually correct. Turkey and Pakistan together will one day rule the Muslim world. I just wish it happens soon, kick out the Arab dictators and free the world. It will happen once the Yanks become bankrupt and have to leave the region along with their bases.

The only people who still believe in this myth of the Muslim world are the Pakistanis. Not even the Turks believe this and once Erdogan leaves you will see Turkey revert back to its original place.

And do enlighten exactly what constitutes this Muslim world? Because the way I see it Saudi Arabia, UAE, Iran and Turkey are all perusing their own independent foreign policy goals. There is no unity or consensus among them, they are at each other's throats and the only time Saudi Arabia evokes the Muslim ummah is when they want to remind everyone how they are the leaders, which couldn't be the furthest thing from the truth.

This is evident by the fact that the one thing they all agreed on: animus towards Israel, does not even hold true any more.

This ideological bloc that you are still holding onto does not exist anymore. Maybe it did briefly in 1974, and maybe Pakistan at one point could even have been considered its future leader. But once Pakistan lost the eastern wing it lost the title of the world's most populous Muslim country and when Pakistan's economy failed to adapt and develop according to the changing nature of the world, it damned itself from having a meaningful role in world affairs.

 

[KingKhanWC]

The only people who still believe in this myth of the Muslim world are the Pakistanis. Not even the Turks believe this and once Erdogan leaves you will see Turkey revert back to its original place.

And do enlighten exactly what constitutes this Muslim world? Because the way I see it Saudi Arabia, UAE, Iran and Turkey are all perusing their own independent foreign policy goals. There is no unity or consensus among them, they are at each other's throats and the only time Saudi Arabia evokes the Muslim ummah is when they want to remind everyone how they are the leaders, which couldn't be the furthest thing from the truth.

This is evident by the fact that the one thing they all agreed on: animus towards Israel, does not even hold true any more.

This ideological bloc that you are still holding onto does not exist anymore. Maybe it did briefly in 1974, and maybe Pakistan at one point could even have been considered its future leader. But once Pakistan lost the eastern wing it lost the title of the world's most populous Muslim country and when Pakistan's economy failed to adapt and develop according to the changing nature of the world, it damned itself from having a meaningful role in world affairs.

This is because of your poor understanding. Its not a bloc but will be an neccesity once the Al-Saud family is no longer in charge of Arabia, esp the holy mosques. The clues were in my post. USA is in decline as a superpower, sooner or later they will have to leave the region due to costs. With no US military to protect the Arab dictators, they will easily thrown out. The only two nations which have military strength now and going forward to be custodians of the holy sites is Turkey and Pakistan. By rule the Muslim world I simply mean controlling these lands. This is just a prediction and may or may not come true long after we both die but you're on the wrong track.

 

[El Generico]

Obvioulsy the people sitting close to Imran Khan are Turkish. The first two on either side of Imran. The rest of them are Pakistanis. They look Desi to me.

The second guy on IK’s right is Shehryar Afridi, a Pakistani minister. It seems like you have trouble telling them apart. Maybe it wasn’t as obvious as you said it would be lol.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

This is because of your poor understanding. Its not a bloc but will be an neccesity once the Al-Saud family is no longer in charge of Arabia, esp the holy mosques. The clues were in my post. USA is in decline as a superpower, sooner or later they will have to leave the region due to costs. With no US military to protect the Arab dictators, they will easily thrown out. The only two nations which have military strength now and going forward to be custodians of the holy sites is Turkey and Pakistan. By rule the Muslim world I simply mean controlling these lands. This is just a prediction and may or may not come true long after we both die but you're on the wrong track.

Your point of view has no basis in reality. The US is not leaving Middle East anytime soon. And when
they do it will be absolute chaos. There will be a violent power struggle between Saudi, Iran, Israel and UAE for influence. There will only be more conflict, not less.

Pakistan does not have enough of an economy to have any sort of meaningful role in global affairs.

And your point about Pakistan and Turkey taking over holy sites is just to ridiculous to even address. Its the kind of thing you would expect to hear from a 14 year old.

I also don't think you understand the meaning of America being a superpower in decline. It means they will still be the most powerful nation on the planet 50 years from now.

 

[Nadeemp]

You are actually correct. Turkey and Pakistan together will one day rule the Muslim world. I just wish it happens soon, kick out the Arab dictators and free the world. It will happen once the Yanks become bankrupt and have to leave the region along with their bases.

Pipe dreams. Stop being delusional.

 

[Mamoon]

This is going to be more propaganda rubbish like the nonsense Ertugrul.

Not going to watch.

 

[saeedhk]

You are actually correct. Turkey and Pakistan together will one day rule the Muslim world. I just wish it happens soon, kick out the Arab dictators and free the world. It will happen once the Yanks become bankrupt and have to leave the region along with their bases.

Not in a million years! First, fix your own home then talk about being a superpower. Pakistan has the HIGHEST number of out-of-school children! It has the highest instances of honor killings! It has the THIRD WORST passport. It has the highest rate of infant mortality. It has a bankrupt economy which is surviving on IMF handouts and Western aid. It ranks at the bottom in human development indices.

On top of the above, there is widespread violence against women and children and human life has ZERO value. It is a country where poverty, unemployment and illiteracy is widespread amongst a myriad of other problems.

How can we become a superpower?

 

[Afhan Ali]

Prices of everything is increasing on daily base, 60-70% of the country is thinking about food, clothes, medicine and home. but our PM is sitting with turkish people to discuss the TV series.
#Salute.

 

[Nadeemp]

Not in a million years! First, fix your own home then talk about being a superpower. Pakistan has the HIGHEST number of out-of-school children! It has the highest instances of honor killings! It has the THIRD WORST passport. It has the highest rate of infant mortality. It has a bankrupt economy which is surviving on IMF handouts and Western aid. It ranks at the bottom in human development indices.

On top of the above, there is widespread violence against women and children and human life has ZERO value. It is a country where poverty, unemployment and illiteracy is widespread amongst a myriad of other problems.

How can we become a superpower?

IT IS WRITTEN. That’s all you need to know.

 

[Mamoon]

Prices of everything is increasing on daily base, 60-70% of the country is thinking about food, clothes, medicine and home. but our PM is sitting with turkish people to discuss the TV series.
#Salute.

He needs distractions. He knows he has completely failed as a PM.

The world does not take him seriously because when it comes to foreign relations, he is doing what COAS Bajwa tells him to do.

Domestically, he has completely failed in areas where he has power and has proved to be a clueless, erratic leader with no vision.

The nation is no longer interested in the rona dhona over corruption and the performance of the previous government. They have heard enough, and they want results now. They want action.

The common man does not care about his sabz baagh and his criticism of the previous governments when they are in a worse state than they were few years back.

The common man does not care if Nawaz was corrupt or not when he was paying less for everyday essentials under Nawaz rule.

What should they do with Imran’s fake honesty when they cannot even afford basic necessities anymore?

And take a look at his team that he keeps chopping and changing all the time. The most useless, incompetent, dishonest and dumb politicians are found in PTI these days.

It is basically a competition between who can abuse the previous governments more. That is the only criteria for selection.

 

[Mamoon]

A few Pakistani dreams that will never be realized:

1. Pakistan will become leader of the Muslim world and unite the ummah under one banner.

2. Israel will collapse and cease to exist.

3. USA will become a poor, weak country.

4. Kashmir will be liberated from India.

 

[El Generico]

This is going to be more propaganda rubbish like the nonsense Ertugrul.

Not going to watch.

I thought you said you didn’t watch Ertugrul ? How do you know it was propaganda?

 

[Mamoon]

I thought you said you didn’t watch Ertugrul ? How do you know it was propaganda?

Forced myself to watch two episodes and I couldn’t bear it. Looked really poor to me with mediocre acting.

It is inevitable that it must be full of propaganda. That is why Pakistanis are obsessed with it and are treating their lead actors as national heroes.

If most of Pakistanis like what you do, you are doing propaganda basically.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Always interesting to see how any form of co-operation between two Muslim countries brings all the usual suspects out snapping and snarling in opposition. Perhaps they feel that Pakistanis need to see more Bollywood and Hollywood fare as Pakistanis already hold their faith in too high regard.

 

[Giannis]

The topic is quite interesting from a historical perspective.

The title 'Turk Lala' sounds like the Turkish counterpart of Shahid Afridi, if at all they end up having a cricket team one day.

lala just means older brother in pashto, the series is going to be based off Abdul Rehman Peshawari - a Kashmiri from Peshawar that fought for the Ottomans in the Balkan wars.

https://kashmirobserver.net/2020/04...membering-a-kashmiri-scribe-in-turkish-press/

 

[Greenstorm]

Good move. They should add the stories of those Muslim soldiers from subcontinent who refused to fight against Turks and were therefore executed by the British.

Its a pity that unlike Turks, Pakistanis know nothing about their contribution to the Turkish war of independence.

 

[the Great Khan]

Forced myself to watch two episodes and I couldn’t bear it. Looked really poor to me with mediocre acting.

It is inevitable that it must be full of propaganda. That is why Pakistanis are obsessed with it and are treating their lead actors as national heroes.

If most of Pakistanis like what you do, you are doing propaganda basically.

I've seen every episode bar the last three. It's a slow burner but I can say it was an inspiring tv show and was a breath of fresh air. I could watch it with the family and didn't have to forward the nude scenes. it gave a great message and the actions scenes were fun too. the characters were great and the story telling was intricate.

with regards to your hatred of its propaganda. Well it is no different to watching medieval western shows that portray the vikings as great god like warriors or that portray the templars as brave defenders of the holy land. Or perhaps those movies that show medieval western warriors as defenders of the universe.

this show flipped the subject and gave a different point of view which was refreshing and intriguing.

Now clearly you just have a problem with anybody showing a Muslim hero in a good light. Sure there is propaganda but its there when you watch every western show on tv right now. Every single one is full of propaganda so if I want to watch something different whats wrong with it? Whats wrong with my kids seeing Ertugrul as a hero rather than Jon snow?

 

[the Great Khan]

Always interesting to see how any form of co-operation between two Muslim countries brings all the usual suspects out snapping and snarling in opposition. Perhaps they feel that Pakistanis need to see more Bollywood and Hollywood fare as Pakistanis already hold their faith in too high regard.

Watch Bollywood like Mamoon with dancing women and overgrown steroid induced Indians who destroy the pak army about twenty times a move. Thats what him and his ilk enjoys..

 

[the Great Khan]

Coming onto the show itself. They are starting the casting and if it is good it will be picked up by Netflix which will give Pakistan some exposure. Joint productions with fellow Muslim nations is great. I beleive Kazakhistan are also collaborating with Turkey on a drama about Jalaludding Khwarzemi which should be good too.

I hope we see more collaborations and hope we transfer some of those production skills to out domestic market. Would love to see a new take on the Nishan-e-Haider series.

 

[MenInG]

Indeed it is.

The Khilafat movement elicited strong emotions among many Indian Muslims. Many factors were at play, but I think central was the sense of civilisational decline and rupture from the past. Turkey represented the last great fragment of Muslim civilisation, a living symbol of a former Islamic glory.

A poem by Shibli Nomani, on the tumult (hungama) of the Balkans, brings to life this feeling. Though written before the War of Independence, against the background of the Tripolitan and Balkan wars, it is a lament for the fate of Turkey and what it meant for the Muslim community more widely. Each couplet of Shibli’s poem ends with “how long” (kab tak). How long will the Ottoman Empire, which he refers to as a guttering candle (Chiragh-e kashta), last? Morocco has gone, Persia has gone; how long will Turkey - the ‘sick man of Europe’ (mariz-e sakht jan) - last? How long will the sighs of the oppressed be able to withstand the flood of misery coming from the Balkans? In the final couplet he asks if he wants to migrate, there is still Syria, Najd and Kairouan, but for how long?

Margrit Pernau has argued that in the aftermath of the 1857 Rebellion, there was an intensification of emotion in Muslim discourse. There was a shift from an emphasis on adl, that is balance, harmony, to josh, that is fervour, ebullience. The Khilafat movement was certainly suffused by josh. Central figures in the Khilafat drama were, of course, the Ali brothers. Here is a poem that became especially famous from that period and was recited for many years afterwards:

boli amma Muhammad Ali ki
jaan beta khilafat pe de do
saath tere hai Shaukat Ali bhi
jaan beta khilafat pe de do
buddhi amma ka kuchh gham na karna
kalma padh kar khilafat par marna
puure iss imtehaan mein utarna
jaan beta khilafat pe de do
hote mere agar saat bete
karti sab ko khilafat pe sadqe
hain yahin deen-e-Ahmed ke raste
jaan beta khilafat pe de do

[So spoke Muhammad Ali’s mother / give your life, son, for Khilafat / with you is Shaukat Ali, too/ give your life, son, for Khilafat / do not give this old mother any cause for sorrow / confess your faith; die for Khilafat / for this test, give absolutely your all / give your life, son, for Khilafat / even if I had seven sons / I would sacrifice them all for Khilafat / for this is the way of the Prophet / give your life, son, for Khilafat]

Many thanks for this wonderful post KB

 

[the Great Khan]

Another important historical aspect is that many members of the Khilafat movement eventually became the core of the Pakistan movement. Hence the history is so linked

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I've seen every episode bar the last three. It's a slow burner but I can say it was an inspiring tv show and was a breath of fresh air. I could watch it with the family and didn't have to forward the nude scenes. it gave a great message and the actions scenes were fun too. the characters were great and the story telling was intricate.

with regards to your hatred of its propaganda. Well it is no different to watching medieval western shows that portray the vikings as great god like warriors or that portray the templars as brave defenders of the holy land. Or perhaps those movies that show medieval western warriors as defenders of the universe.

this show flipped the subject and gave a different point of view which was refreshing and intriguing.

Now clearly you just have a problem with anybody showing a Muslim hero in a good light. Sure there is propaganda but its there when you watch every western show on tv right now. Every single one is full of propaganda so if I want to watch something different whats wrong with it? Whats wrong with my kids seeing Ertugrul as a hero rather than Jon snow?

I have to say I was the same as Mamoon, I gave up watching Ertugrul after watching the first couple of episodes as well, seemed interminably slow, and somewhat corny. I actually didn't get back to it for nearly a year. But you are right, it is a slow burner, but once you get past the first few episodes which are setting the show up, it ratchets up pretty fast and never looks back. Now it's one of my favourite foreign shows of all time, the world needed it badly no matter how much it might burn chooriyan jangling Indophiles.

 

[srh]

Turkish language is so much linked to Urdu language, I did not know. I am watching Ertugrul series on Netflix and in almost each episode I would hear couple of words of Turkish which are same in Urdu. Unbelievable. Pakistan and India are closely linked with Turkey whether we admit it or not.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Your point of view has no basis in reality. The US is not leaving Middle East anytime soon. And when
they do it will be absolute chaos. There will be a violent power struggle between Saudi, Iran, Israel and UAE for influence. There will only be more conflict, not less.

Pakistan does not have enough of an economy to have any sort of meaningful role in global affairs.

And your point about Pakistan and Turkey taking over holy sites is just to ridiculous to even address. Its the kind of thing you would expect to hear from a 14 year old.

I also don't think you understand the meaning of America being a superpower in decline. It means they will still be the most powerful nation on the planet 50 years from now.

US is in decline, even the WEF have predicted it will no longer be a superpower in a decade. Soon to you might mean next week, to me it could be in the new 2 decades. Without the US, Saudi and other Arab dictators will run like camels to the desserts. Only feasible new custodian of the holy mosques are Turkey and Pak , both becoming stronger. You really need to study geo-politics and understand history.

 

[Nadeemp]

US is in decline, even the WEF have predicted it will no longer be a superpower in a decade. Soon to you might mean next week, to me it could be in the new 2 decades. Without the US, Saudi and other Arab dictators will run like camels to the desserts. Only feasible new custodian of the holy mosques are Turkey and Pak , both becoming stronger. You really need to study geo-politics and understand history.

You need to understand facts and not live in LA LA land. As pointed out earlier by someone pakistan is in no position to do anything. Lives off other countries money.

 

[KingKhanWC]

You need to understand facts and not live in LA LA land. As pointed out earlier by someone pakistan is in no position to do anything. Lives off other countries money.

You were in the UN? )

Cleaning toilets I assume because you add nothing to debate. Jog on old fella.

 

[Nadeemp]

Sure King. Take your meds

 

[KingKhanWC]

Sure King. Take your meds

You took money from the UN for doing the dishes at best. If you were in any type of important role the UN would have run like a bazaar from your home village. Its time to retire, try fishing or bridge, you dont have the ability to debate or undestand. From UN to trolling, shabashh.

 

[Nadeemp]

I think you would not qualify to do the dishes or clean the toilets at the UN. So keep digging.

PS
Please take the meds.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

US is in decline, even the WEF have predicted it will no longer be a superpower in a decade. Soon to you might mean next week, to me it could be in the new 2 decades. Without the US, Saudi and other Arab dictators will run like camels to the desserts. Only feasible new custodian of the holy mosques are Turkey and Pak , both becoming stronger. You really need to study geo-politics and understand history.

I don't know which fantasy world you are living in but you have taken the world superpower in decline (wherever you heard it from) way too literally. Yes, US is a superpower in decline but that still means that it will be on top of the world in every way for atleast the next 50 years. US military power cannot be matched by any country on the face of the earth, and that isn't changing even when they are no longer the number one economy in the world. If you bothered to read news beyond headlines you would have known that US has military bases all over the world from Korea/Japan to Qatar, Africa, UK, and the Western hemisphere. Altogether there are 800 US military bases in 70 countries. Why do you think they are there? And why do you think they are spread all over the word? On top of that US ships and aircraft carriers roam the oceans at will whether its the South China Sea or the Western Hemispher itself. Why? Because they can. Because they like to project power and because they are the pre-eminent superpower in the world.

You claim I should read geo-politics yet you don't know the first thing about them. Because if you did you would know that geo-politics are based on only one thing and that is self-interest. No one and I mean NO ONE sees the world in these kind of ultra-ideological dimensions. I doubt something this absurd has even crossed the minds of Pakistan and Turkey. This is the kind of thing you expect from 15 year old YouTube conspiracy theorists. I really hope that's not where you are learning your geo-politics and history.

 

[Giannis]

Turkish language is so much linked to Urdu language, I did not know. I am watching Ertugrul series on Netflix and in almost each episode I would hear couple of words of Turkish which are same in Urdu. Unbelievable. Pakistan and India are closely linked with Turkey whether we admit it or not.

They're speaking modern Turkish in the show which still has retained some common words with Urdu however Ottoman Turkish had even more words in common as the vocabulary had a lot more Arabic and Persian words, even Ottoman poetry was more Persian-styled like Urdu poetry as the Ottomans were drawn to Persio-Arabic culture, after Ataturk came to power he purged all Arabic and Farsi words and created new words.

 

[Madplayer]

This is going to be more propaganda rubbish like the nonsense Ertugrul.

Not going to watch.

You should watch upcoming movie didda raani. You will like it.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I don't know which fantasy world you are living in but you have taken the world superpower in decline (wherever you heard it from) way too literally. Yes, US is a superpower in decline but that still means that it will be on top of the world in every way for atleast the next 50 years. US military power cannot be matched by any country on the face of the earth, and that isn't changing even when they are no longer the number one economy in the world. If you bothered to read news beyond headlines you would have known that US has military bases all over the world from Korea/Japan to Qatar, Africa, UK, and the Western hemisphere. Altogether there are 800 US military bases in 70 countries. Why do you think they are there? And why do you think they are spread all over the word? On top of that US ships and aircraft carriers roam the oceans at will whether its the South China Sea or the Western Hemispher itself. Why? Because they can. Because they like to project power and because they are the pre-eminent superpower in the world.

You claim I should read geo-politics yet you don't know the first thing about them. Because if you did you would know that geo-politics are based on only one thing and that is self-interest. No one and I mean NO ONE sees the world in these kind of ultra-ideological dimensions. I doubt something this absurd has even crossed the minds of Pakistan and Turkey. This is the kind of thing you expect from 15 year old YouTube conspiracy theorists. I really hope that's not where you are learning your geo-politics and history.

Ive told you already it's been predicted by the WEF, you clearly havent got a clue which organistaion this is. 50 years is a long time, US dollar will collapse by then and so will the petrodollar. The rest of your post is nonsense.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Ive told you already it's been predicted by the WEF, you clearly havent got a clue which organistaion this is. 50 years is a long time, US dollar will collapse by then and so will the petrodollar. The rest of your post is nonsense.

Go back to your YouTube videos that tell you how everything is Jewish conspiracy and how we will create a Greater Pakistan by conquering India and Bangladesh. You have proven that, that is your level of discourse.

 

[Nadeemp]

He's not Indian, but another so called Pakistani athiest who supports any negative impacts on Pakistan and Kashmir. Theres a few of these so called enlighted liberals on here.

I dont support any negative impacts on pakistan/kashmir or anyone else. I just live in a real world and not some fantasy i conjured while sitting in my basement watching youtube. Also dont look at everything through the prism of religion. Athiest yes. You got me.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Yeah. I need help from the guy who thinks Pakistan and Turkey will conquer Saudi Arabia and Israel. LOL.

Where did I mention Israel? lol

You need a lot of help because conquering Arabia without US soldiers protecting the dictators would be a walk in the park for Turkey and Pakistan.

Have you googled WEF yet? Please get some basic knowledge before quoting me.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Where did I mention Israel? lol

You need a lot of help because conquering Arabia without US soldiers protecting the dictators would be a walk in the park for Turkey and Pakistan.

Have you googled WEF yet? Please get some basic knowledge before quoting me.

You said holy lands. Do you know where Jersusalem is located? Or is your geography as good as your as your "gEoPoliTicS"?

 

[KingKhanWC]

You said holy lands. Do you know where Jersusalem is located? Or is your geography as good as your as your "gEoPoliTicS"?

Trying reading properly.

I wrote

" in charge of Arabia, esp the holy mosques. "

WEF is the World Economic Forum. Now thank me for educating you.

 

[MenInG]

A few of you may not be able to post if you continue being personal towards each other

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Forced myself to watch two episodes and I couldn’t bear it. Looked really poor to me with mediocre acting.

It is inevitable that it must be full of propaganda. That is why Pakistanis are obsessed with it and are treating their lead actors as national heroes.

If most of Pakistanis like what you do, you are doing propaganda basically.

Our people have an obsession with seeing the world through the lens of the greater Muslim World, when it has been obvious for quite some time that such a thing does not exists. This is why they are obsessed by Turkish history but barely know anything about their own history.

They also seem oblivious to the fact that there is never going to be a Muslim bloc because muslim countries hate each other more than they hate countries oppressing muslims.

 

[Nadeemp]

Its a good thing that there never will be a muslim bloc, like there should never be a christian bloc and so on

 

[Mamoon]

Our people have an obsession with seeing the world through the lens of the greater Muslim World, when it has been obvious for quite some time that such a thing does not exists. This is why they are obsessed by Turkish history but barely know anything about their own history.

They also seem oblivious to the fact that there is never going to be a Muslim bloc because muslim countries hate each other more than they hate countries oppressing muslims.

As I said above, the Pakistani dream of seeing the formation of a Muslim bloc and the fall of Israel will never be realized.

The Middle Eastern countries learned their lesson after the Six Day War and the epic failure that the United Arab Republic proved to be.

It is only countries like Pakistan and Turkey that are still delusional enough to believe in Muslim unity and the formation of another Islamic empire.

Erdogan is cosplaying an Ottoman Caliph and Imran thinks of himself as the first Caliph of the Madinah state of Pakistan.

Absolutely nothing will happen to Israel. It will continue to thrive while we will continue to dream of a day that will never come.

 

[OldWarHorse]

Turkish language is so much linked to Urdu language, I did not know. I am watching Ertugrul series on Netflix and in almost each episode I would hear couple of words of Turkish which are same in Urdu. Unbelievable. Pakistan and India are closely linked with Turkey whether we admit it or not.

Obviously with the Mughals with their Turkic origins its not really surprising. Also both Urdu and Turkic languages have heavy Persian influence.

 

[guna]

You should watch upcoming movie didda raani. You will like it.

Do you really believe that Imran and Erdogan will revive Caliphite?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

As I said above, the Pakistani dream of seeing the formation of a Muslim bloc and the fall of Israel will never be realized.

The Middle Eastern countries learned their lesson after the Six Day War and the epic failure that the United Arab Republic proved to be.

It is only countries like Pakistan and Turkey that are still delusional enough to believe in Muslim unity and the formation of another Islamic empire.

Erdogan is cosplaying an Ottoman Caliph and Imran thinks of himself as the first Caliph of the Madinah state of Pakistan.

Absolutely nothing will happen to Israel. It will continue to thrive while we will continue to dream of a day that will never come.

Erdogan is little more than an aberration, like all the other demagogues. Most Turks are westernized secularists who connect with Kemalism much more than they do with this neo-Ottoman fantasy.

It's great that Erdogan is supporting Pakistan on Kashmir but beyond nice words there is nothing meaningful that both countries can collaborate on. Pakistan also seem to have the propaganda TV show equation all wrong. The aim of it is to create a Turkish cultural hegemony. Not a Turko-Pak cultural hegemony.

 

[Nadeemp]

Erdogan is little more than an aberration, like all the other demagogues. Most Turks are westernized secularists who connect with Kemalism much more than they do with this neo-Ottoman fantasy.

It's great that Erdogan is supporting Pakistan on Kashmir but beyond nice words there is nothing meaningful that both countries can collaborate on. Pakistan also seem to have the propaganda TV show equation all wrong. The aim of it is to create a Turkish cultural hegemony. Not a Turko-Pak cultural hegemony.

Erdogans ideology has penetrated Turkish society. He gets high 40 percentage votes. But yes still more people holds a secularist view. It that can change.

 

[Nadeemp]

Why does pakistan have to connect ourselves with another. First the Persians , then arabs and not the flavor is Turks.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Why does pakistan have to connect ourselves with another. First the Persians , then arabs and not the flavor is Turks.

Because we have an identity crisis. There is a constant state of flux between Islamic Pakistan and Jinnah's Pakistan. Islamic Pakistan wins out is most cases because that is what the masses and most segments of middle class identify with. The upper middle to upper class Pakistanis are in a complete identity crisis. They live lives of excess but also consider themselves good Muslims. They are confused about where they should derive their identity from, and have a profound ignorance about history, which is sad. Because Pakistan does not need to derive its identity from external sources. We have been a nation for 74 years. The land we live on was home to some of the richest civilizations in the history of mankind. Yet here we are trying to derive our identity from Saudi Arabia and Turkey. I don't blame the masses for identifying with Islamic Pakistan. Instead I blame everyone from Liaquat Ali Khan who passed the Objectives Resolution to the ones responsible for writing our textbooks who never gave Jinnah's Pakistan a chance.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Erdogans ideology has penetrated Turkish society. He gets high 40 percentage votes. But yes still more people holds a secularist view. It that can change.

I personally don't think it will change anymore than it already has. But I may be wrong, who knows.

 

[srh]

They're speaking modern Turkish in the show which still has retained some common words with Urdu however Ottoman Turkish had even more words in common as the vocabulary had a lot more Arabic and Persian words, even Ottoman poetry was more Persian-styled like Urdu poetry as the Ottomans were drawn to Persio-Arabic culture, after Ataturk came to power he purged all Arabic and Farsi words and created new words.

Obviously with the Mughals with their Turkic origins its not really surprising. Also both Urdu and Turkic languages have heavy Persian influence.

I knew Urdu is influenced by multiple languages but did not know it is so much influenced by Turkish.

 

[Giannis]

I knew Urdu is influenced by multiple languages but did not know it is so much influenced by Turkish.

Urdu itself is a Turkish word meaning army or camp. Most of the words Urdu and Ottoman Turkish share in common are of Arabic and Persian origin.

 

[Varun]

You are actually correct. Turkey and Pakistan together will one day rule the Muslim world. I just wish it happens soon, kick out the Arab dictators and free the world. It will happen once the Yanks become bankrupt and have to leave the region along with their bases.

Instead of these cock and bull stories, why don't you walk the talk and do something substantial regionally like becoming friends with the Afghanistanis? At the moment the two of you seem to foam at the mouth at the mere mention of each other, and India and other powers are treating the situation as a football to play around with.

Also the Bangladeshis. Why are they lower Muslims in your eyes? Don't look down on them.

 

[saeedhk]

If the ‘Ummah’ was a genuine concept, why are Muslims, especially, from the subcontinent treated like dirt in Arab countries.

In Arab countries, a Pakistani cannot buy property, land, marry a local woman, obtain citizenship, build his own mosque, work and open a bank account on his own.

However, a Pakistan can do all the above in the West! European governments open their doors for us! They treat us like equals. We can build our mosques and marry local European women. Yet, we badmouth them.

Tell me, who cares more about us: Arabs or the West?

Also, if the Arabs were such awesome people and the Europeans were evil, why does every Pakistan want to go to Europe instead of Saudi Arabia?

 

[Nadeemp]

If the ‘Ummah’ was a genuine concept, why are Muslims, especially, from the subcontinent treated like dirt in Arab countries.

In Arab countries, a Pakistani cannot buy property, land, marry a local woman, obtain citizenship, build his own mosque, work and open a bank account on his own.

However, a Pakistan can do all the above in the West! European governments open their doors for us! They treat us like equals. We can build our mosques and marry local European women. Yet, we badmouth them.

Tell me, who cares more about us: Arabs or the West?

Also, if the Arabs were such awesome people and the Europeans were evil, why does every Pakistan want to go to Europe instead of Saudi Arabia?

whaaaaaaat!!!!!! but but but...

 

[Nadeemp]

If the ‘Ummah’ was a genuine concept, why are Muslims, especially, from the subcontinent treated like dirt in Arab countries.

In Arab countries, a Pakistani cannot buy property, land, marry a local woman, obtain citizenship, build his own mosque, work and open a bank account on his own.

However, a Pakistan can do all the above in the West! European governments open their doors for us! They treat us like equals. We can build our mosques and marry local European women. Yet, we badmouth them.

Tell me, who cares more about us: Arabs or the West?

Also, if the Arabs were such awesome people and the Europeans were evil, why does every Pakistan want to go to Europe instead of Saudi Arabia?

The Zionist will die a cruel death. It is written. USA is game over. You wait till turkey and pakistan come together and rule the world. Have you even heard of WEF? Have you. Please google that and come back to me. Google WEF please before we can have a conversation. Okj!!!!

 

[Nadeemp]

Instead of these cock and bull stories, why don't you walk the talk and do something substantial regionally like becoming friends with the Afghanistanis? At the moment the two of you seem to foam at the mouth at the mere mention of each other, and India and other powers are treating the situation as a football to play around with.

Also the Bangladeshis. Why are they lower Muslims in your eyes? Don't look down on them.

Do you know what WEF is even man!!!

 

[Varun]

Do you know what WEF is even man!!!

"World Error Fables"?

 

[Madplayer]

Do you really believe that Imran and Erdogan will revive Caliphite?

Where did you get that from?

 

[maverick85]

We need a bajrangi daal khorasani TV series to satisfy the namoonay namak harams. They should be able to relate to that

 

[KB]

Another important historical aspect is that many members of the Khilafat movement eventually became the core of the Pakistan movement. Hence the history is so linked

This is an interesting point and one that deserves some context. Before the onset of colonial rule, mosques, madrasas, the law and the ulama were generally supported by Muslim state power. With the waning of Mughal rule and the deepening of British rule, patronage of the ulama declined. No longer did the British fund madrasa education; no longer after 1865 was the advice of Muftis to be sought when administering Anglo-Muhammadan law. Revenue free grants that supported families of the ulama were reclaimed in many instances; religious knowledge was deemed inferior and government servants were increasingly expected to have obtained their qualifications from government schools.

Then there was the trauma in the aftermath of the rebellion of 1857 in upper India. When I think of the impact of the rebellion on the Muslims of northern India, I think of the life of Muhammad Husain Azad (1830 -1910), the famous Urdu writer. In one month, Azad’s father was executed, his baby daughter killed by a stray-bullet, he had lost his work, was separated from his friends and said goodbye to his city. As Frances Pritchett writes, “even years later, when he used to reminisce with an old friend about 1857, ‘all these talks ended in tears’.”

It is in light of this trauma, that along with Hali, Azad led an attack on the Persian heritage for producing poetry that was too ornate and effete, that ultimately failed to inspire action in the ‘real’ world. This reflected a general shift away from courtly culture, from an emphasis on common descent to one that stressed instead achievement, action and vitally for the argument here, individual responsibility. Think of the novelist, Nazir Ahmad. In his work Taubat un Nasuh, Nasuh’s oldest son spends his time with courtesans and poets engages in activities such as cockfights, kite-flying and chess. Classical Persian and Urdu literature were to blame: in one of the “most horrifying scenes in Urdu novels” [in the words of C.M. Naim] Nasuh burns his son’s collection of Urdu and Persian literature in the courtyard.

It is in this background, that many worked to build a Muslim society from the bottom up. In the new public sphere of the twentieth century - marked by the expansion of the printed word - it became a religious duty, in the eyes of many to demonstrate publicly a commitment and devotion to Islam. In the absence of state power, there was an enhanced responsibility on individual Muslims.

As David Gilmartin, writes, “with the state no longer defining the moral parameters of the community or its political form, individuals remade the community in the public realm by attaching their hearts to Muslim symbols and making these inner hearts public in open contestation.”

Therefore, symbols that were associated with being Muslim became emotionally charged. We see this in the Kanpur mosque dispute of 1913, in the Rangila Rasul agitation in the late 1920s, in the Shahid Ganj mosque dispute in Lahore in 1935, in the movement for the restoration of Masjid Manzilgah in Sukkur in 1939-40; but most powerfully of all we see it in the Khilafat movement from 1919 and in the Pakistan movement of the 1940s. It was in these movements that we can clearly see, to quote Gilmartin again, “the discourse of personal and emotional identification with Islamic symbols” being “translated from the press into public action.”




 

[saeedhk]

Superpower bannay ki parri hai, aur har month kai bachay guttar may gir kar foth hojatay hai! Yaha toh guttar kay dukkan chori hojatay hai!

 

[KingKhanWC]

Instead of these cock and bull stories, why don't you walk the talk and do something substantial regionally like becoming friends with the Afghanistanis? At the moment the two of you seem to foam at the mouth at the mere mention of each other, and India and other powers are treating the situation as a football to play around with.

Also the Bangladeshis. Why are they lower Muslims in your eyes? Don't look down on them.

Pak is mending realations with Afg, have you not heard? But first we have to ensure all the Indians supporting terrorism in Pak are sent packing back to Bombay, which will happen. India have played enough , it's time for the whistle to blow for them, game over.

Bangladesh are not a strong military. You might think it's Cock and Bull which is normal for an Indian but in any scenario where the Al Saud lose rule or are no longer to protect the holy sites, Pak and Turkey will intervene, not Modi and his Saffron mates .

 

[Greenstorm]

Interestingly, one of Abdul Rehman Peshawari's brother later became an Indian diplomat and served in multiple countries as ambassador.