Pakistan vs South Africa | 3rd ODI | November 8 | Faisalabad | Pre-Match Discussion

[Cricket Warrior]

After defeating South Africa in the first ODI Pakistan had a golden opportunity to seal the series with another strong performance in the second match. However, the Proteas produced a resilient and commanding batting display that completely turned the tide in their favor, leveling the series in emphatic fashion.

The manner of South Africa’s comeback was nothing short of dominant, leaving Pakistan with plenty to ponder ahead of the decider. It will now be fascinating to see how Pakistan respond to such a heavy defeat whether they can regroup, learn from their mistakes, and mount a serious challenge to reclaim control of the series.

 

[TeymurBlake]

I would make a change to the XI. I would take out Hussain Talat for Abrar Ahmed. I know this could expose Pakistan fragile lower middle order but the form of M.Nawaz & F.Ashraf warrants them getting more responsibility with the bat to come up the order.

1. Fakhar Zaman
2. Saim Ayub
3. Babar Azam
4. Mohammad Rizwan (WK)
5. Agha Ali Salman
6. Mohammad Nawaz
7. Faheem Ashraf
8. Mohammad Wasim Jr
9. Naseem Shah
10. Shaheen Shah Afridi (C)
11. Abrar Ahmed

Hussain Talat isn’t a number 6 in 50 over cricket nor is Hassan Nawaz. Talat is more of a number 3/4 & Nawaz is a number 5.

 

[gazza619]

i cant figure out how a proper batter like Saud Shakeel cant get into this ODI team.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

i cant figure out how a proper batter like Saud Shakeel cant get into this ODI team.

Saud Shakeel's record in ODIs is not exactly good either.

 

[gazza619]

Saud Shakeel's record in ODIs is not exactly good either.

Fair enough. But I would feel more confident with Saud in the XI than Hussain Talat or Hassan Nawaz.

Saud has really good numbers in tests and domestic cricket. May be we should give him one more try.

 

[Mohraheem]

Aggressive cricket! Don’t take any TikTok advice from Misbah

 

[sweep_shot]

It is 50-50.

Can go either way.

 

[ads101]

Fair enough. But I would feel more confident with Saud in the XI than Hussain Talat or Hassan Nawaz.

Saud has really good numbers in tests and domestic cricket. May be we should give him one more try.

Saud in internationals Odis got a start nearly every single innings. And his dismissals were usually him throwing his wicket away. Looked comfortable at the crease.

He wasn’t someone who was swinging and missing, struggling to stay in or consuming a lot of dot balls and struggling to score.

I think we absolutely missed out not continuing with him in Odis. There was promise there.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

i cant figure out how a proper batter like Saud Shakeel cant get into this ODI team.

Kamran Ghulam is a better ODI player than Saud. Has power game as well.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

We need to bring in Khurram Shehzad in the ODI side as well. Naseem doesn't inspire much confidence when it comes to taking wickets upfront.

 

[hassan918]

Kamran Ghulam is a better ODI player than Saud. Has power game as well.

At the moment I think Saud has a better chance to be in the ODI side than Kamran but who would you drop from the current team? Imam is also in line and can be a good choice.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

At the moment I think Saud has a better chance to be in the ODI side than Kamran but who would you drop from the current team? Imam is also in line and can be a good choice.

Kamran isn't the squad I think.
But my XI would be
Saim
Fakhar
Babar
Kamran
Rizwan
Agha
Nawaz
Shaheen
Naseem
Khurram/Wasim
Faraz/Sufian/Abrar

Hassan Nawaz can come in once he sorts his technical issues.
With Babar, Saud, Rizwan and Agha, we have four players in the middle order lacking the 4th gear. Even if they get set, they can't amp their SR upto 150 in the final 10 overs.

 

[Theo_14]

It’s crazy how we are playing against almost a 2nd string SA side. So how many key players for SA missing. It just shows how much Pakistan cricket has declined that we can’t even convincingly beat them.

 

[Kianig89]

Will Rauf be back as 12th Man for SA and give them a cushion of 85/0 in 10 overs. Pakistan got their task cut out.

 

[gazza619]

Kamran Ghulam is a better ODI player than Saud. Has power game as well.

I like KG and also TT(tayyab tahir). These guys are domestic cricket giants. To be fair they have been given chances and they should have done better.

 

[Devadwal]

Rauf is likely to back in the playing eleven after 2 match Ban. Pakistan is looking more strong to win the series.

 

[Rana]

I like KG and also TT(tayyab tahir). These guys are domestic cricket giants. To be fair they have been given chances and they should have done better.

Chances at what positions? And what positions did they bat well in domestics to earn their selection call ups??

 

[gazza619]

Chances at what positions? And what positions did they bat well in domestics to earn their selection call ups??

I believe that in the realm of international sport, it is crucial to make the most of any opportunities that come our way, regardless of the circumstances.

Both KG and TT need to understand that they have no one but themselves to hold accountable for their performance. Excuses will not help them improve or achieve their goals.

 

[Rana]

I believe that in the realm of international sport, it is crucial to make the most of any opportunities that come our way, regardless of the circumstances.

Answer the question.

Don’t beat around the bush. You wouldn’t do that if it wasn’t your favourites who are in question!

 

[RyanRyan10]

Answer the question.

Don’t beat around the bush. You wouldn’t do that if it wasn’t your favourites who are in question!

So, Kamran Ghulam isn't among the 33?

 

[Rana]

So, Kamran Ghulam isn't among the 33?

Nor is Farhan and Harris

It means there are 33 players besides Farhan, Harris and Kamran that will bang Pakistan.

Bhai mujhe tou darr lag raha hai

 

[Rana]

Both KG and TT need to understand that they have no one but themselves to hold accountable for their performance. Excuses will not help them improve or achieve their goals

Where is this attitude towards Babar and Rizwan when they are rightly booted out of the T20 side?

 

[Ball Blazer]

will be a shame if they lose the series. SA looked stronger in their last match. QDK finally proved his mettle too

 

[gazza619]

Answer the question.

Don’t beat around the bush. You wouldn’t do that if it wasn’t your favourites who are in question!

I have answered the question. Those players who come with excuses and blame others are not made for international sport.

 

[gazza619]

Where is this attitude towards Babar and Rizwan when they are rightly booted out of the T20 side?

You cant help yourself can you. RizBar is always on your little mind

 

[Nabeel23]

If Talat plays then he has to play at 4 or not play at all. He is not a number 6, he needs time to get set and can anchor the innings. If he fails this and the SL series then he should be dropped and replaced by Kamran Ghulam.

Rizwan should drop down to 5, he has technical deficiencies but is still our best wicketkeeper batsman in ODIs.

 

[Rana]

If Talat plays then he has to play at 4 or not play at all. He is not a number 6, he needs time to get set and can anchor the innings. If he fails this and the SL series then he should be dropped and replaced by Kamran Ghulam.

Rizwan should drop down to 5, he has technical deficiencies but is still our best wicketkeeper batsman in ODIs.

You are better of talking to a wall than making sense here.

 

[Rana]

I have answered the question. Those players who come with excuses and blame others are not made for international sport.

again, nonsense. Please try not to make this a characteristic.

what numbers to kamran, Tayyab, Saud, Talat, Agha bat for their domestic sides and what numbers have they been given when they play for Pakistan to avail their 'opportunity'?

Its a simple question. Simple answer. No nonsense please.

 

[adi_62941]

Why these so called experience players like babar, rizwan, shaheen, fakhar dont perform like what quinton de kock did last night?

 

[Rana]

Why these so called experience players like babar, rizwan, shaheen, fakhar dont perform like what quinton de kock did last night?

Fakhar has become too cautious

Babar and Rizwan are a joke. They cannot be compared with white ball royalty players like DeQock.

 

[adi_62941]

Fakhar has become too cautious

Babar and Rizwan are a joke. They cannot be compared with white ball royalty players like DeQock.

I wonder why rizwan is wasting number 4 spot and who put him at that spot. Once in a blue moon, he plays a good innings but he waste that important spot. Salman or some other specialist batsmen should bat at number 4 spot so that he can capitalize maximum.

 

[gazza619]

again, nonsense. Please try not to make this a characteristic.

what numbers to kamran, Tayyab, Saud, Talat, Agha bat for their domestic sides and what numbers have they been given when they play for Pakistan to avail their 'opportunity'?

Its a simple question. Simple answer. No nonsense please.

I don’t like weak characters. People should either toughen up or quit

 

[Rana]

I don’t like weak characters. People should either toughen up or quit

What are you now all of a sudden? A UFC coach?

Why do you have to reach desperately and become dishonest in the process? Just answer a simple question with a simple answer. Stop digging a hole for yourself. Its not that complicated.

What numbers did guys like Kamran, Saud, Tayyab, Agha and Talat bat in white ball domestics? What numbers are they forced to bat in Pakistan's ODI team?

 

[AZulfi]

The ease with which South African batsmen chased down 269 in the 2nd ODI even 350 might not have been enough. Although the pressure on the batsmen from the outset of a 270 run chase is not the same as that of a 325 plus chase (batsmen forced to take more chances)

It also shows that South Africa’s 263 in the first game was way below par….And yet we scraped home in the last over!

The second pitch however seemed to have more bounce and pace.

I think this is a 325+/- wicket. Not sure if our current batting is capable of scoring that many.

Pakistan will have to bat really well to deny South Africa a 2-1 series victory (RSA have recently won away series in both Australia and England by the same margins)

 

[gazza619]

What are you now all of a sudden? A UFC coach?

Why do you have to reach desperately and become dishonest in the process? Just answer a simple question with a simple answer. Stop digging a hole for yourself. Its not that complicated.

What numbers did guys like Kamran, Saud, Tayyab, Agha and Talat bat in white ball domestics? What numbers are they forced to bat in Pakistan's ODI team?

In professional settings, we don't always get everything served to us on a silver platter. Success often requires us to adapt, adjust, and be flexible as we work towards our goals.

I like KG and TT, but I must point out that they haven't always made the most of the opportunities presented to them. It's not rocket science – it's about seizing the moment and making it count. Let me give you an example of someone who embodies this spirit: Riz.

When Riz first joined the team, he was batting at number 6 in ODIs and made a significant impact in that position. Later, he was promoted to number 4 in ODIs, where he continued to perform exceptionally well. Then, Misbah asked him to open in T20s, and Riz had a few smashing years in that role. What stands out about Riz is his ability to adapt to different situations and excel in each one. He didn't wait for perfect conditions; he made the best of every opportunity.

I encourage everyone to learn from Riz's example. Adapting to new circumstances and embracing challenges can lead to remarkable achievements.

 

[zahid01]

Why these so called experience players like babar, rizwan, shaheen, fakhar dont perform like what quinton de kock did last night?

Because they are not same class as de kock

 

[Nabeel23]

In professional settings, we don't always get everything served to us on a silver platter. Success often requires us to adapt, adjust, and be flexible as we work towards our goals.

I like KG and TT, but I must point out that they haven't always made the most of the opportunities presented to them. It's not rocket science – it's about seizing the moment and making it count. Let me give you an example of someone who embodies this spirit: Riz.

When Riz first joined the team, he was batting at number 6 in ODIs and made a significant impact in that position. Later, he was promoted to number 4 in ODIs, where he continued to perform exceptionally well. Then, Misbah asked him to open in T20s, and Riz had a few smashing years in that role. What stands out about Riz is his ability to adapt to different situations and excel in each one. He didn't wait for perfect conditions; he made the best of every opportunity.

I encourage everyone to learn from Riz's example. Adapting to new circumstances and embracing challenges can lead to remarkable achievements.

I am a fan of Rizwan but he has glaring technical issues in his batting. When he first came on, he done very well but teams have been able to figure him out so he isn't doing as well as he was before.

He may still do well in bilateral games because he is facing against the second/third tier bowlers but in a tournament against the main bowlers against the top teams, he will struggle. Its not difficult for a bowler such as Hazelwood/Bumrah/Rabada to keep him quiet.

 

[gazza619]

These are all lies.

The timeline, everything you have said here is falsehood.

Stop spreading fake information. Do not become another @Caved12

Just answer the question I posed or ask me to leave you alone. I’ll leave you alone, but I won’t allow you to spread misinformation.

Lets agree to disagree then. You can continue on your merry anti RizBar journey.

 

[gazza619]

I am a fan of Rizwan but he has glaring technical issues in his batting. When he first came on, he done very well but teams have been able to figure him out so he isn't doing as well as he was before.

He may still do well in bilateral games because he is facing against the second/third tier bowlers but in a tournament against the main bowlers against the top teams, he will struggle. Its not difficult for a bowler such as Hazelwood/Bumrah/Rabada to keep him quiet.

Riz may have seen a dip in form but he is still miles ahead of what we have as alternatives.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

I am a fan of Rizwan but he has glaring technical issues in his batting. When he first came on, he done very well but teams have been able to figure him out so he isn't doing as well as he was before.

He may still do well in bilateral games because he is facing against the second/third tier bowlers but in a tournament against the main bowlers against the top teams, he will struggle. Its not difficult for a bowler such as Hazelwood/Bumrah/Rabada to keep him quiet.

The problem with most fans is they don't think about tournament and 1st string teams but only bilateral performances.

I don't think it's the issue if the fans are aware that this is the limit of the player.

What is more annoying is that the fans want/expect the same player to deliver performances in the World Cup or tournaments against first string attacks and lay into anyone who tells them it won't happen.

This is like me going to a club level tournament and beating a few players to win the trophy. And have thousands of my fans wanting me to play Wimbledon and beat Sinner and Alcaraz because I won the club tournament.

And then keep asking me to play Wimbledon despite being mauled for 2 straight years because there is no upcoming player as per my fans.

It's insanity, I tell you.

 

[Rana]

Lets agree to disagree then. You can continue on your merry anti RizBar journey.

Yes, let’s agree that you are spreading disinformation…and are being disingenuous to protect your favourites.

This is the final word on this matter.

 

[jnaveen1980]

SOmetimes back i read an article on how SA20 has bridged the gap between international and domestic. SA20 has definitely helped SA fast track some youngsters.No better example than Pretorious. I expect more talents being fast tracked. They are slowly becoming a force. It is already one of the best franchisee leagues after IPL.

 

[Nabeel23]

The problem with most fans is they don't think about tournament and 1st string teams but only bilateral performances.

I don't think it's the issue if the fans are aware that this is the limit of the player.

What is more annoying is that the fans want/expect the same player to deliver performances in the World Cup or tournaments against first string attacks and lay into anyone who tells them it won't happen.

This is like me going to a club level tournament and beating a few players to win the trophy. And have thousands of my fans wanting me to play Wimbledon and beat Sinner and Alcaraz because I won the club tournament.

And then keep asking me to play Wimbledon despite being mauled for 2 straight years because there is no upcoming player as per my fans.

It's insanity, I tell you.

Yh I agree with you on this. Cricket has changed now, 20 years ago all the top players would play bilateral games and there was only the World Cup every 4 years. Now, these games are used to try bench strength so you can be ready for the main tournament.

Pakistan planning is so poor is that they only look at the stats and not at the actual game. An example is Babar, everyone can see his is struggling especially against spin, how are fans expecting him to do well next year on those spinning pitches in Sri Lanka against Zampa, Kuldeep etc, it’s basically a disaster waiting to happen.

We have the same issues we had prior to the 2023 World Cup. All the line-up barring one or two is same same, can’t really hit out and impact the scoring. Our ceiling is limited, we need to be looking to maximise a 360-380 score, if that means trying new players until we get this right then so be it.

 

[Nabeel23]

Riz may have seen a dip in form but he is still miles ahead of what we have as alternatives.

I wouldn’t mind trying him at 7 similar to how Haddin was used at 8 in the 2015 World Cup. We have two years to look at all options.

 

[gazza619]

I wouldn’t mind trying him at 7 similar to how Haddin was used at 8 in the 2015 World Cup. We have two years to look at all options.

Riz will play at any number the team desires.

We have already tried kachra like Azam Khan, Usman Khan & M Haris.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Riz will play at any number he desires.

Fixed that for you.

And I know you don't mind that either because you love his clownery.

 

[gazza619]

Fixed that for you.

And I know you don't mind that either because you love his clownery.

Riz is not the captain, so any statements suggesting otherwise are purely imaginative. Shaheen will be playing Riz in a position that allows us to maximise Riz's strengths and get the best performance out of him.

 

[Asif321]

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Riz is not the captain, so any statements suggesting otherwise are purely imaginative. Shaheen will be playing Riz in a position that allows us to maximise Riz's strengths and get the best performance out of him.

It's laughable or naive of you to assume that just because Riz is not captain he does not choose his position.

 

[Suleiman]

View attachment 159254

Surrounded by elite company

 

[gazza619]

It's laughable or naive of you to assume that just because Riz is not captain he does not choose his position.

That doesn’t make any sense though. Did Riz choose to be sacked as ODI captain? Did he choose to be kicked out of T20s? Did he choose not to be test captain?

Riz is not the mafia. He is fighting the mafia.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

That doesn’t make any sense though. Did Riz choose to be sacked as ODI captain? Did he choose to be kicked out of T20s? Did he choose not to be test captain?

Riz is not the mafia. He is fighting the mafia.

If you get sacked because of repeated issues with batting and team management, it does not mean you have no clout anymore.

It means even less, if you are back in the team again despite not being captain.

Mostly it means, change of guard is a facade because Rizbar is what they think is going to win you the World Cup.

Let me throw you a question out there.

Do you honestly think Rizbar will perform at T20 and ODI World Cups next few years to bring Pakistan the trophy?

Or are you cheering for them because it gives you butterflies when that cover drive gets hit? Or maybe your Taqwa increases when Riz rolls up his pants to show his ankles?

Because no normal person in the normal world can claim that Rizbar is the key to success in the next World Cup for Pakistan.

 

[gazza619]

If you get sacked because of repeated issues with batting and team management, it does not mean you have no clout anymore.

It means even less, if you are back in the team again despite not being captain.

Mostly it means, change of guard is a facade because Rizbar is what they think is going to win you the World Cup.

Let me throw you a question out there.

Do you honestly think Rizbar will perform at T20 and ODI World Cups next few years to bring Pakistan the trophy?

Or are you cheering for them because it gives you butterflies when that cover drive gets hit? Or maybe your Taqwa increases when Riz rolls up his pants to show his ankles?

Because no normal person in the normal world can claim that Rizbar is the key to success in the next World Cup for Pakistan.

A true sports fan supports their team through thick and thin. Do I believe that RizBar have what it takes to win us a trophy? Absolutely, I do. It's essential to have faith and believe in our team's potential.

One issue that seems to be prevailing is the misconception that there are players in the circuit who are better than RizBar. This is simply untrue. Please, let's not be swayed by these false assertions. RizBar are fantastic players and deserve our unwavering support.

Moreover, I respectfully request that we refrain from dragging religion into this discussion. Assuming you are a real doctor, considering your username, your ethics should guide you not to make fun of people's ways of life. It is crucial to maintain respect for everyone's beliefs and practices.

 

[Justcrazy]

Babar has to fire , this is his strongest format , he needs to bat the majority of overs and be an anchor.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

A true sports fan supports their team through thick and thin. Do I believe that RizBar have what it takes to win us a trophy? Absolutely, I do. It's essential to have faith and believe in our team's potential.

One issue that seems to be prevailing is the misconception that there are players in the circuit who are better than RizBar. This is simply untrue. Please, let's not be swayed by these false assertions. RizBar are fantastic players and deserve our unwavering support.

Moreover, I respectfully request that we refrain from dragging religion into this discussion. Assuming you are a real doctor, considering your username, your ethics should guide you not to make fun of people's ways of life. It is crucial to maintain respect for everyone's beliefs and practices.

In sports, any metric for any team to perform is based on ability and past performances.

You say that you think Rizbar have what it takes to win the trophy. Okay. What is the metric you are using ? Performances vs B and C class attacks? Again, that is a fallacy because B and C class attacks are not going to be on offer during the actual tournament.

Which then brings us to second question of past performances. Have hey have repeatedly showed that they have the ability to perform in World Tournaments for last 3 years? I would think not.

So I am confused what metric you are using when you are evaluating these players? And firmly believing these 2 will win the tournament for Pakistan.

I am okay if you say this is the best Pakistan has. But the best Pakistan has, has repeatedly failed at Grand stage in multiple tournaments for 3 years.

Is it not time to fail with someone else? What is the point of failure if there is nothing to learn from it ?

Then you say they are terrific players. By what metric? Which tournament have they won for Pakistan in the last 3 years? What has Babar done in last 2.5 years that he suddenly is a terrific player? Even Ponting was thrown out of the side when he started failing. What legacy does Babar have? Do you think Australia should have continued to go with failing Ponting saying this is the best they have ?

The last paragraph that you spewed with venom doesn't make sense. A doctor does not judge something when he is in a private conversation in a clinical setting. There is no rule in the world that a doctor has to remain non judgmental during his entire existence. Those standards are for patient doctor relationships and neither is Rizwan my patient nor are you. Also Rizwan can freely practice his religion without being judged. But when Rizwan actively does things in public that show a love for religion, he will be judged, criticized, critiqued and dissected. If he starts praying on the pitch, he will be asked about it. You cant say don't judge at that time.

I know you have no answers to all of the nonsense I have typed above.

Your answer probably would be Rizbar the great and let's go Islam but at least I tried to make you see how blind you are to the truth that Rizbar are just hogging two spots till 2027 World Cup with no chance of them ever winning anything.

But you won't listen or reason so let it be.

Good luck.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I like KG and also TT(tayyab tahir). These guys are domestic cricket giants. To be fair they have been given chances and they should have done better.

Kamran Ghulam only failed in 2 matches before getting dropped. He did pretty well in SA.
Tayyab Tahir doesn't seem like an international player. Plays pace with a bottom hand like shoaib malik.

 

[Aami]

Yup .. around the bend again and again and again.

We just cant seem to produce the batters that are needed these days? I know that, you know that, we all know that.

We have Saim/Fakhar which is fine, may be Farhan when Fakhar goes.

We have Babar, Riz, Salman, Saud, Kamran, Talat and anyone else for nos 3/4 which is fine too.

What we do need is M Haris, H Nawaz, may be Irfan Niazi or Abdul Samad to make a mark at nos 5/6 .. which they dont or havent. And, there lies the problem.

Lower order with M Nawaz, Faheem, Shadab etc is fine too.

Its the middle order and the lack of reliable power hitters at nos 5/6 which keeps taking us back to middling scores of 260/280. as oppose to 350 or more.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Pakistan rarely runs into a line up where they have three left handers at the top. QDK, Pretorious, De zorzi. Shaheen against left handers is not a great threat. Pakistan could try oypening with proper off spinner if they have the guts. They will go after. But you can cretae an opportunity.

 

[gazza619]

Pakistan batting needs to fire. No brainer to play Abrar. Keep the ball away from fake bowler Agha.