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Pakistani batsmen - The most mentally weak?

saeedhk

Test Debutant
Joined
May 8, 2010
Runs
15,056
When it comes to keeping calm and holding your nerve, Pakistani batsmen are the worst.

We have players who cannot absorb even a little pressure of going at 5 rpo.

At key and defining junctures, we have batmen who simply refuse to use their brains.

I believe that chasing in cricket requires great mental grit and strength which our batmen lack and which is evident by our terrible chasing record.

Discuss.
 
I don;t like this 'mentally weak' term.

What some Pakistani batsmen have is a skill set not suited to the long game. They can learn more skills, then succeed in tests.
 
What some Pakistani batsmen have is a skill set not suited to the long game. They can learn more skills, then succeed in tests.

On the contrary, they're way better in tests than they are in LoIs.
 
That title belongs to the mighty Saffers. In terms of unparalleled talent and using it when it really matters. No team is worse than my beloved country.
 
That title belongs to the mighty Saffers. In terms of unparalleled talent and using it when it really matters. No team is worse than my beloved country.

2011 world cup NZ vs South Africa I went to bed only to find we somehow won.
 
2011 world cup NZ vs South Africa I went to bed only to find we somehow won.

Ditto. I turned off the TV to head out to dinner when Kallis and de Villiers were absolutely cruising after scaling half the target and then returned and went to bed.

The next morning, groggy eyed, my cellphone screen said: New Zealand won by 49 runs.

Incredible! Which is why the following bit is way off:

That title belongs to the mighty Saffers. In terms of unparalleled talent and using it when it really matters. No team is worse than my beloved country.
 
Apologies for misquoting [MENTION=134445]Saffer_XIII[/MENTION] above, didn't realize he was being sarcastic.
 
I don;t like this 'mentally weak' term.

What some Pakistani batsmen have is a skill set not suited to the long game. They can learn more skills, then succeed in tests.
I mean in ODIs and T20s.
 
Firstly, away from discussing 2014 players, I think most/many famous chokes in the last two decades were matchfixing. The fact that the countries of Hansie Cronje and Salim Malik feature so prominently just makes me all the more sure.

Secondly, I think that Misbah and Younis have groomed Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq to be much more mentally strong than most international cricketers, and I hope that Ahmed Shehzad is picking that up too.

I'd be pretty happy to see that mashed up with Umar Akmal and Babar Azam.
 
I would say lack of character is the more apt term. A lot of players just don't have the character to guts it out in the middle, when tuk tum boom boom is your ideology, you can only succeed in an atmosphere where opponents are not penetrative enough and the conditions are too batting friendly. Otherwise batting in cricket is like playing chess. You used to have players like MoYo, Inzamam, Malik who were cerebral assassins and now you have the likes of Umar Akmal, Mo hafeez who are dumb as anything
 
We have too many players who cash in on easy conditions and not many gun players
 
Bangladesh says hi :)

Although we do score big once in a whilee LOIs but our batsman are no less weak when it comes to mentality. We have bundled out for 80- thrice in 3 years. Even by Pakistan standards thats not acceptable.
 
Not able to rotate strike is not really a mental weakness. It's a skill issue and pretty much all Pakistani batsmen lack that skill.
 
Yes. When we have confidence, we can chase anything but as soon as the pressure mounts, most of the bats crumble. Which is why Misbah is held in high regard and why I think Maqsood is going to be our next great batsman.
 
Lacking confidence in ones abilities would be a better description. You get the feeling that Pak batsmen cannot express themselves properly because:

1 - Pak selectors are idiots who can drop a good player after only a few bad performances.
2 - The media in Pakistan (and the ex players who go with them) can't wait to see a player fail so they can say 'I told you so'.

Just look what a player (Sarfraz) can do when his mentality changes.
 
Not able to rotate strike is not really a mental weakness. It's a skill issue and pretty much all Pakistani batsmen lack that skill.
Talking about their inability to handle any pressure whatsoever.
 
Yes. When we have confidence, we can chase anything but as soon as the pressure mounts, most of the bats crumble. Which is why Misbah is held in high regard and why I think Maqsood is going to be our next great batsman.

Your strength is your bowling. Infact, even today, as a combined unit, I think it is the best in SC. But your batting lacks all that matters...... confidence, calm head and planning. It is either tuk tuk (Shezad) or all out attack (Afridi).

BTW, I can't even remember one succesfull 250+ chase in ODI's in recent times by Pakistan (except for that one fluke win against SL ).
 
Lacking confidence in ones abilities would be a better description. You get the feeling that Pak batsmen cannot express themselves properly because:

1 - Pak selectors are idiots who can drop a good player after only a few bad performances.
2 - The media in Pakistan (and the ex players who go with them) can't wait to see a player fail so they can say 'I told you so'.

Just look what a player (Sarfraz) can do when his mentality changes.

Sarfraz has impressed me. But we should not go overboard with the praise. We all have seen Pakistani batsmen like Akmal, Jamshed etc. fizzle away after great starts to their careers....
 
Absolutely. It is the main reason why a bowler like herath can dominate them. Poor spin playing ability of a lot of Pakistani batsmen are because they are not confident whether to go back or come forward while playing the turning ball. Shan Masood for example.
 
You used to have players like MoYo, Inzamam, Malik who were cerebral assassins and now you have the likes of Umar Akmal, Mo hafeez who are dumb as anything

Sigh, I miss the days when if we were 40-2 (as we usually were thanks to our lallu openers), two of YK/Yousuf/Inzy would come in and save the day with sensible batting, ensured the required run-rate did not get out of hand, never look flustered and play the big shots when required.

We've struggled since the last World Cup to find the right balance between attack and defence and have failed to use a horses for courses selection approach, much like England who continually think a good Test player = a good ODI player. We need to get out of this mindset.
 
It's ingrained into our mentality, we are extremists

We will ever blow the target away in 40 overs
or get all out chasing it in 40 overs

or chase it so slowly, we need 15 an over for the last 7 overs


It's why our test team play so slow, if they play at any other pace, they are likely to have a flash at the ball and waft at one, they play the jonathan trott way of playing, totally focused mentally so much so that even a run up from a bowler can put you off
The batsmen who play, play at the other extreme, like sarfraz, they are set into machoism, sweeping fast bowlers and taking the attack to the bowlers, similar if they have to defend , or play an over of dot balls, they are likely to lash out and get caught or castled


How do you find the middle ground
Younis Khan was meant to be it but it is not in his capability

Ahmed Shehzad plays at both extreme but not in between


The only hope is someone like asad shafiq but he has not cut the custard in big tournaments

So it is left with the rotators of strike, the likes of haris sohail and saad nasim to go where shoaib malik and umer amin have failed and be the moderates the Pakistan team need to be able to chase big totals like the australians or the english
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You better rename this thread to

''The most over confident pakistani batsman''
 
The lack of rotation of strike is the main reason. If you keep rotating the strike the pressure is less.
 
I think the mentality reflects the selectors pandering to senior culture as much as anything else. When you fill the side with defensive batsmen based on past reputation then that defensive mentality is going to show on the pitch. I was watching the NZ innings and they were struggling at 168-6, but when Irfan came on to bowl MIsbah was too scared to give him even one slip. Two potential catches went flying through that vacant area as a result.
 
It's ingrained into our mentality, we are extremists

We will ever blow the target away in 40 overs
or get all out chasing it in 40 overs

or chase it so slowly, we need 15 an over for the last 7 overs

When did Pak blow away targets in 40 overs?
 
I agree.. Pakistan batsmen seem to bottle it more often than not. Thank god for their bowling..
 
When did Pak blow away targets in 40 overs?

Forgetting the semantics of the point, the point was when they chase, they get there comfortably, and hardly rely on last ball heroics

Shahid Afridi forgot trying to screw Misbah today and play the kind of innings he used to play under younis khan and Inzi, great to see, rotated strike well as did the golden boy Haris
 
Am pretty sure, Pakistan wouldn't have been able to have recovered from 114/8 to reach 208 and win the game like England did with Jos Buttler leading the way. The likes of Hafeez would give up and we'd be all out quickly from that stage. To be fair, the Razzaq 109 Not out innings against South Africa was special in 2010 but it wasn't quite as dire a situation as this and these are few and far between.

Although, this was pretty special, it's still frustrating to see that Pakistan is still the worst chasing team around and become mental midgets under a little bit of pressure. We all know Pakistan isn't the best batting team but surely they can improve from their mediocre performances of the recent past.
 
It’s a simple question with a very simple answer.

The team has followed a tried and tested mindset of reaching a mediocre total that their bowlers can hopefully defend.

One thing I can admire about Ganguly is he challenged his team to make it reach new heights.

Can’t say the same for any Pakistani captain since...well... you know.
 
It’s a simple question with a very simple answer.

The team has followed a tried and tested mindset of reaching a mediocre total that their bowlers can hopefully defend.

One thing I can admire about Ganguly is he challenged his team to make it reach new heights.

Can’t say the same for any Pakistani captain since...well... you know.
It is also because he fought for players like Yuvraj to be included in the side.The change in India's chasing fortunes from 90's are mostly due to our middle order which had Yuvi,Dhoni, Raina and Kaif ( for a brief time).All these guys could play the waiting game while running hard to make singles into doubles and then had the power to unleash their shots when the time is right.
 
It is also because he fought for players like Yuvraj to be included in the side.The change in India's chasing fortunes from 90's are mostly due to our middle order which had Yuvi,Dhoni, Raina and Kaif ( for a brief time).All these guys could play the waiting game while running hard to make singles into doubles and then had the power to unleash their shots when the time is right.

Of course, luck is a part of the revival of India’s fortunes in ODI’s and Test. Ganguly was extremely fortunate to have the Fab 5 as part of his team. But even than, supreme talent requires supreme egos. And the entitlement mentality of subcontinent players in particular is poison to a team’s success. Ganguly is underrated in world cricket because of his lack of charisma. But note this down, HE is the best leader to come out of the subcontinent since IK (first). Nasser “Insane” Hussain played a similar role but England improved under Tests only and not both formats of the game. Ganguly understood the bigger picture, he was a visionary, who helped transcend the mentality of Indian cricket.
 
Before Ganguly, India would much rather draw than win.

That was the difference between Pakistan and India.

But it changed with that Border-Gavaskar series in 2001.
 
Yes no doubt. They are mentally lacking coz of our domestic structure.
 
I think, mental toughness is a misleading word - rather I say PAK batsmen can't react to the situational demands. And, this is purely self made, rather than genetics or mental weakness. If I exclude corruption from my discussion, I can explain that in 3 perspectives - how a batsman or a batting line-up reacts to a given situation?

1. Whenever a team (batting line-up) is put under pressure, or a difficult situation, or simply chasing a target (be batting first or 2nd, doesn't matter - even batting first one has to chase a target) first thing you need is bating skills - that's pure shot making ability, punishing bad balls, selectively avoiding risky shots or fatal mistakes and most importantly all-round game to maneuver balls around, so that score board can be kept active even with 2 new batsmen in or against very tight bowling/fielding. This is first failure of PAK batting - extremely limited batsmen whose scoring areas can be blocked and scorecard stagnates to create a panic : result, desperate release shot.

2. Getting out of tough situations, or reacting to a situation can't be done on theory - that's one can explain a chase with lap tops, charts, plots ... but players has to execute that on field. Now, that execution tactics is mostly dependent on how players are groomed - in the domestic games that they play, how much it's stressing the players, given different propositions - sometimes scoreboard pressure, sometimes time/rate pressure or sometimes simply game skill - say, an opener has to see out Styen's 7 overs opening spell ....... . This is one area PAK players are extremely limited - hardly any domestic game (both FC & List A) ends in nail biters, neither the game is expanded enough to bring different situations in a game. Keeping cool head under a given situation isn't natural quality or someone is born with - there can be individuals (from every nation), who by nature can keep calm under pressure, but they are rare; most players are groomed into a process that reacts appropriately under pressure.

3. Versatility - cricket is an unique game that's vastly dependent on wicket. We consider wicket (or playing surface) only as a factor of bowling, but it's not. There is a BIG factor of being in "comfort zone" for a batsman as well. The more players (batsmen) play on different/diversified surface, they get accustomed to the diversity, can react better, can apply better and most importantly can adopt better. Strategy & planning has a big part in batting, more so on how to approach a difficult situation (or target). Unfortunately, PAK batsmen play most of their games on 2 very much identical type of wicket - either at home wickets in domestics or in UAE, which doesn't prepare them, and PAK doesn't tour much either, plays Test/FC games even less - now it's 2 Tests, in future it might come to 1/0.

Coming to the validation for three points, I can give examples of batsmen between 70s to 90s - some of the best players/batsmen under intense pressure came from PAK, and that's certainly not because of genetics. Even in very early days, Hanif was an outstanding pressure player. Reason I have mentioned many times - most PAK top batsmen of that era was County players, where they played regularly against versatile attack on diverse County wickets/weather and often those games were hard fought, close games - played full distance to the end, which prepared them mentally, but more importantly tactically & technically. Javed hit a last ball SIX, not because he had talent only, but his entire plan was to face the last ball (got Wasim run-out on penultimate ball to be on strike), and he correctly predicted the ball Sharma was going to attempt, finally he had the skills to execute the perfect shot............ on contrary, Mohammah Hafeez tried a scoop against Munaf Patel, when the game was in PAK's favor, or at worst even keel!!!!!!

For the 3rd point, I actually can justify from recent examples. In recent times two of the best chases in Test I have seen in against SRL, once in UAE & once in SRL - both times, PAK batsmen were in comfort zone, against known/preferred type of wicket & friendly attack - no way pressure was less there, but they responded, same can be said in 3rd Test against Poms in UAE (2 times) - batsmen crawled back into the game from behind. Similarly, I correctly predicted that ENG (IND as well, a year later) will struggle against PAK at Oval - that's after losing 2 Tests at Manchester & Birmingham by some big margin or after losing to IND by 140+ margin 2 weeks before; because I could see PAK team flourishing on that Oval wicket - both with bat & ball once team is settled, which unfortunately is 180 degree opposite from what is there in UAE.

Therefore, I don't think it's an issue of mental weakness, panic or lack of skill, or genetics - Imran was the toughest character I have ever seen on cricket field (Otherwise he won't have made such comeback from that sort of injury at that age); rather players are not developed properly to react under pressure and it won't improve unless QeA style asks batsmen to bat out 3rd/4th innings for a meaningful cause - these 250 overs FC jokes on those soggy wickets actually hinder the mental development, rather than developing it.
 
I think, mental toughness is a misleading word - rather I say PAK batsmen can't react to the situational demands. And, this is purely self made, rather than genetics or mental weakness. If I exclude corruption from my discussion, I can explain that in 3 perspectives - how a batsman or a batting line-up reacts to a given situation?

1. Whenever a team (batting line-up) is put under pressure, or a difficult situation, or simply chasing a target (be batting first or 2nd, doesn't matter - even batting first one has to chase a target) first thing you need is bating skills - that's pure shot making ability, punishing bad balls, selectively avoiding risky shots or fatal mistakes and most importantly all-round game to maneuver balls around, so that score board can be kept active even with 2 new batsmen in or against very tight bowling/fielding. This is first failure of PAK batting - extremely limited batsmen whose scoring areas can be blocked and scorecard stagnates to create a panic : result, desperate release shot.

2. Getting out of tough situations, or reacting to a situation can't be done on theory - that's one can explain a chase with lap tops, charts, plots ... but players has to execute that on field. Now, that execution tactics is mostly dependent on how players are groomed - in the domestic games that they play, how much it's stressing the players, given different propositions - sometimes scoreboard pressure, sometimes time/rate pressure or sometimes simply game skill - say, an opener has to see out Styen's 7 overs opening spell ....... . This is one area PAK players are extremely limited - hardly any domestic game (both FC & List A) ends in nail biters, neither the game is expanded enough to bring different situations in a game. Keeping cool head under a given situation isn't natural quality or someone is born with - there can be individuals (from every nation), who by nature can keep calm under pressure, but they are rare; most players are groomed into a process that reacts appropriately under pressure.

3. Versatility - cricket is an unique game that's vastly dependent on wicket. We consider wicket (or playing surface) only as a factor of bowling, but it's not. There is a BIG factor of being in "comfort zone" for a batsman as well. The more players (batsmen) play on different/diversified surface, they get accustomed to the diversity, can react better, can apply better and most importantly can adopt better. Strategy & planning has a big part in batting, more so on how to approach a difficult situation (or target). Unfortunately, PAK batsmen play most of their games on 2 very much identical type of wicket - either at home wickets in domestics or in UAE, which doesn't prepare them, and PAK doesn't tour much either, plays Test/FC games even less - now it's 2 Tests, in future it might come to 1/0.

Coming to the validation for three points, I can give examples of batsmen between 70s to 90s - some of the best players/batsmen under intense pressure came from PAK, and that's certainly not because of genetics. Even in very early days, Hanif was an outstanding pressure player. Reason I have mentioned many times - most PAK top batsmen of that era was County players, where they played regularly against versatile attack on diverse County wickets/weather and often those games were hard fought, close games - played full distance to the end, which prepared them mentally, but more importantly tactically & technically. Javed hit a last ball SIX, not because he had talent only, but his entire plan was to face the last ball (got Wasim run-out on penultimate ball to be on strike), and he correctly predicted the ball Sharma was going to attempt, finally he had the skills to execute the perfect shot............ on contrary, Mohammah Hafeez tried a scoop against Munaf Patel, when the game was in PAK's favor, or at worst even keel!!!!!!

For the 3rd point, I actually can justify from recent examples. In recent times two of the best chases in Test I have seen in against SRL, once in UAE & once in SRL - both times, PAK batsmen were in comfort zone, against known/preferred type of wicket & friendly attack - no way pressure was less there, but they responded, same can be said in 3rd Test against Poms in UAE (2 times) - batsmen crawled back into the game from behind. Similarly, I correctly predicted that ENG (IND as well, a year later) will struggle against PAK at Oval - that's after losing 2 Tests at Manchester & Birmingham by some big margin or after losing to IND by 140+ margin 2 weeks before; because I could see PAK team flourishing on that Oval wicket - both with bat & ball once team is settled, which unfortunately is 180 degree opposite from what is there in UAE.

Therefore, I don't think it's an issue of mental weakness, panic or lack of skill, or genetics - Imran was the toughest character I have ever seen on cricket field (Otherwise he won't have made such comeback from that sort of injury at that age); rather players are not developed properly to react under pressure and it won't improve unless QeA style asks batsmen to bat out 3rd/4th innings for a meaningful cause - these 250 overs FC jokes on those soggy wickets actually hinder the mental development, rather than developing it.

Absolute Master Class, POTW for me.
 
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