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Pakistani Constitution: Should it be respected or not?

Pti fans will keep going on about re election re election.

They dont understand the violation the speaker did. Once a vonc was submitted you cant have the speaker declare all mnas opposing as traitors.

Everything stays invalid after that.

Same argument could be put forward. Pri fans were singing the tunes od optimism that oh its nothing we will get popular.

Than they should had faced the vonc...

What about the open violation of constitution by the opposition when they were openly holding 'disgruntled' PTI MNAs? This was used as an excuse for the allies to jump ship as well.

I am sorry to be blunt but it seems you dont really care about the constitution at all. When you are shown videos of Gillani's son bribing mnas just within last couple of years, you disregard them as old. You are just bitter that PTI played a masterstroke and beat the opposition in their own game.
 
What about the open violation of constitution by the opposition when they were openly holding 'disgruntled' PTI MNAs? This was used as an excuse for the allies to jump ship as well.

I am sorry to be blunt but it seems you dont really care about the constitution at all. When you are shown videos of Gillani's son bribing mnas just within last couple of years, you disregard them as old. You are just bitter that PTI played a masterstroke and beat the opposition in their own game.


Prove it in court than... Speaker isnt some judge or court..

Bhai if you claim someone slapped you, you cnat make that claim on the basis of having video of the person slapping someone else

Prove the case what you are talking about.

Masterstroke? If comittinf treason and violating the constitution is master stroke, than their is no point in arguing....

Plz instead of cominf with lame excuses and theories take proof to the court.....

Horse trading, foreign backing.... Cant even prove a single thing in COURT.
Yet when reham khan claims imran has weird relationships with muraad saeed or does cocain every now and than, those are branded as allegations and pti fans cry for proof.....
 
Prove it in court than... Speaker isnt some judge or court..

Bhai if you claim someone slapped you, you cnat make that claim on the basis of having video of the person slapping someone else

Prove the case what you are talking about.

Masterstroke? If comittinf treason and violating the constitution is master stroke, than their is no point in arguing....

Plz instead of cominf with lame excuses and theories take proof to the court.....

Horse trading, foreign backing.... Cant even prove a single thing in COURT.
Yet when reham khan claims imran has weird relationships with muraad saeed or does cocain every now and than, those are branded as allegations and pti fans cry for proof.....

So If your party violates constitution it needs to proven in court but for PTI you become a judge yourself. Also, i dont need to prove what I am talking about as there is a video for both the bribe and the holding of PTI members in Sindh House. Why dont you prove that PTI violated constitution in court instead of coming with lame excuses here?
 
Sharing for the haters....


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Great compilation with <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranRiazKhan?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ImranRiazKhan</a>'s words on PM Imran Khan by <a href="https://twitter.com/saddamkorai?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@saddamkorai</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WeStandWithPMIK?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WeStandWithPMIK</a> <a href="https://t.co/457CK9AIER">pic.twitter.com/457CK9AIER</a></p>— PTI (@PTIofficial) <a href="https://twitter.com/PTIofficial/status/1510927936395878407?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 4, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
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In a morally bankrupt country and society like Pakistan where people will sell their mothers for money, you cannot operate by the book, the ends must always justify the means.
 
I personally know the person who provided the "drinks" at Marriot hotel Islamabad to the "guests" who were fighting for the democracy, Pakistani style while energizing themselves with "drinks and girls". He is a shareef admi and does not do the dhanda of supplying the girls .

To supply the girls, PMD is now using a new "contactor" after their old and trust worthy contactor for the job leaked PML leader Mohammad Zubair's video while he was having a good time with a girls before helping her to get a job. Whether this a rumor or reality, I don't know, but thats what some people in Lahore are saying .

Bruh!!

Joke is on me :( all these years I have been laughing at Bollywood as they displayed Pakistani politicians / " Mullahs in Sherwanis " drinking and women with naked bellybuttons dancing in front of them... and it all always seemed so cheesy to me.

I guess, as they say, reality is stranger than fiction.

This ******** is like a cheap Bollywood gangster movie:

I) Street rats are bought by Biryani

II) Local Elected Vultures (Members of national / provincial assemblies MNA/MPA) are bought by $, Booze and Women

III) The main thieves (Bhuttos, Zardaris, Shareefs, similar desease etc.) are bought by foreign officials (to keep the Vintage British Raj tradition alive).

:))

I'm putting a laughing emoji but I'm friggin screaming from inside.

Allah SWT in logon ko Gharak kare. May Allah SWT bring an angry Atilla or Gengis Khan on them...
 
Just out of curiosity, since a lot of PPers blame current opposition parties for economic failures of Pakistan, Pakistan GDP growth rate remained 5%+ every year in the most recent term of Nawaz Sharif from 2013-18. Infact, much of Chinese investment also came during his regime. GDP growth rate in last year of Nawaz was 5.8% and ever since IK came, it fell down to under 1%. So why does Nawaz get so much blame for economy when he was doing pretty well in his last term?
 
I have a question, could the speaker disqualify the PTI MNAs and hold the VONC? That way the defectors wouldn't have any affect. What is the pakistani law on this?
 
In a morally bankrupt country and society like Pakistan where people will sell their mothers for money, you cannot operate by the book, the ends must always justify the means.

Then army would be justified in taking over power, giving the same excuse. No?
 
I can understand why so many PPers support IK and his actions tho they may be illegal. Many in Pakistan do seem to hate opposition parties, and there would be some reasons for it. Also, this forum would largely reflect middle and upper middle class of Pakistan population so not sure what the others in Pakistan think about it. Eventually it will come down to has IK done/ would IK be able to do something material for Pakistan baring the usual rhetorics. Call me a capitalist but the only way for a country to progress is through its economy, when poor folks are able to uplift themselves out of poverty is when a nation and nationality truly shape up. Again here PPers would know better if that has happened in the last 3-4 yrs in Pakistan, going by pure stats it seems like IK record is no better or probably worse than many of his predecessors.
 
Then army would be justified in taking over power, giving the same excuse. No?

I think the difference here is that he has dissolved his power and called fresh elections. Makes it very hard to argue that someone is a dictator right after they give up power voluntarily.

Personally speaking, and you may disagree with me, he has just beaten the opposition at their own game. The opposition defected several PTI members (which everyone knows was done through bribery but that’s another story ) and flaunted them openly. This was where the technicalities with the constitution started cause members of political parties in Pakistan are not able to vote outside party lines when it comes to VONC as per the constitution. However, by flaunting them openly in the media the opposition caused a stir and also were able to influence the allies to defect as a result (atleast one major party, MQM, has admitted this).

So the way that I see it, opposition started this game by playing with technicalities in the constitution and PTI after trying to do everything ended up doing the same, and I don’t blame them.
 
I have a question, could the speaker disqualify the PTI MNAs and hold the VONC? That way the defectors wouldn't have any affect. What is the pakistani law on this?

But if the defector PTI MNAs are disqualified than they would no longer have majority numbers in the house.
 
Incorrect. They had 179 votes without the defector PTI MNA's and still had majority.

Does the 179 figure not include the defector MNAs? Just doing simple math here as the opposition had 198 members on their side on vonc date 176 opposition plus about 22 defectors.
 
Incorrect. They had 179 votes without the defector PTI MNA's and still had majority.

Majority of common people in Pakistan believe best option was the Fresh Elections. We can describe events of last 1 month in whatever way we like. In last days, PDM number was above par even without defectors and they can claim it.

One month ago PTI Govt had majority and in first phase, defectors joined PDM. In second phase, PDM had numbers courtesy defector MNAs and their win was looking certain. This made Govt allies to join the "incoming Govt".

Without defector MNAs, allies like MQM, BAP couldn't have joined PDM. And PDM numbers couldn't have been 170+. Govt can claim it.

Still everyone is free to twist it the way he/she likes but only us people aren't allowed to express ourselve by voting.
 
Just out of curiosity, since a lot of PPers blame current opposition parties for economic failures of Pakistan, Pakistan GDP growth rate remained 5%+ every year in the most recent term of Nawaz Sharif from 2013-18. Infact, much of Chinese investment also came during his regime. GDP growth rate in last year of Nawaz was 5.8% and ever since IK came, it fell down to under 1%. So why does Nawaz get so much blame for economy when he was doing pretty well in his last term?

Fair to compare pre-covid under imran with Nawaz. Although Nawaz will still fare better in economic paramters. Its just a fact.
 
Fair to compare pre-covid under imran with Nawaz. Although Nawaz will still fare better in economic paramters. Its just a fact.

and would you agree that the growth rates under PMLN have turned out to be a disgrace?
 
Just out of curiosity, since a lot of PPers blame current opposition parties for economic failures of Pakistan, Pakistan GDP growth rate remained 5%+ every year in the most recent term of Nawaz Sharif from 2013-18. Infact, much of Chinese investment also came during his regime. GDP growth rate in last year of Nawaz was 5.8% and ever since IK came, it fell down to under 1%. So why does Nawaz get so much blame for economy when he was doing pretty well in his last term?

Its all fine and dandy having good economic growth but what happens when all the money generated is looted by the government?
 
But if the defector PTI MNAs are disqualified than they would no longer have majority numbers in the house.

Incorrect. They had 179 votes without the defector PTI MNA's and still had majority.

See as far as i checked on Google, PTI didn't have majority on its own and needed the coalition partners to have majority.

In a democracy, its perfectly legal and ethical for a coalition partner to leave.
 
But if the defector PTI MNAs are disqualified than they would no longer have majority numbers in the house.

Majority of common people in Pakistan believe best option was the Fresh Elections. We can describe events of last 1 month in whatever way we like. In last days, PDM number was above par even without defectors and they can claim it.

One month ago PTI Govt had majority and in first phase, defectors joined PDM. In second phase, PDM had numbers courtesy defector MNAs and their win was looking certain. This made Govt allies to join the "incoming Govt".

Without defector MNAs, allies like MQM, BAP couldn't have joined PDM. And PDM numbers couldn't have been 170+. Govt can claim it.

Still everyone is free to twist it the way he/she likes but only us people aren't allowed to express ourselve by voting.

By 2012-13 Indians were largely fed up with the congress government. But because congress had the majority in parliament, they completed their term. Thats how law works.

If opposition has majority, imran should have resigned and allowed the opposition to prove their numbers.
 
See as far as i checked on Google, PTI didn't have majority on its own and needed the coalition partners to have majority.

In a democracy, its perfectly legal and ethical for a coalition partner to leave.

Yes but the allies only left because of the defectors, which has been confirmed by one of the allies, MQM.
 
By 2012-13 Indians were largely fed up with the congress government. But because congress had the majority in parliament, they completed their term. Thats how law works.

If opposition has majority, imran should have resigned and allowed the opposition to prove their numbers.

In a functioning democracy, this would have been the way. This is not one. Here you make up a vague story with no direct evidence and dismiss the assembly. Imran will not take the second place in any fight. Will be interesting how the army reads the whole thing going forward.
 
to all those who are asking about respect of the constitution, heres the news for you,

Who is Shehbaz Sharif, Pakistan’s opposition leader?


The brother of a disgraced prime minister, Nawaz Sharif, Shehbaz has been plagued by corruption allegations of his own.

https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2022/04/01/who-is-shehbaz-sharif-pakistans-opposition-leader

now tell me how the eff these haram khors can run for PM and CM nominations having a bail on them ?
the both father and son are outside becoz they got the bail.
and opposition wants to make them PM and CM, so where is respect of the constitution ......
 
In a functioning democracy, this would have been the way. This is not one. Here you make up a vague story with no direct evidence and dismiss the assembly. Imran will not take the second place in any fight. Will be interesting how the army reads the whole thing going forward.

Vague story? says who? America has been involved in 84 coups or attempts. Biden went out of his way to isolate IK. The message was very clear- get rid of IK or else. Why were American meeting the likes of Raja Riaz? How would they even know who he is?

BTW
IK has called an election- didnt you want an election
 
But if the defector PTI MNAs are disqualified than they would no longer have majority numbers in the house.

Vague story? says who? America has been involved in 84 coups or attempts. Biden went out of his way to isolate IK. The message was very clear- get rid of IK or else. Why were American meeting the likes of Raja Riaz? How would they even know who he is?

BTW
IK has called an election- didnt you want an election

Usually big powers meet politicians of both sides. Happens in India too. Doesn't mean its a coup.

Biden got hammered for the Taliban takeover of Afghanistan, you think he would be very happy to meet Imran?
 
Vague story? says who? America has been involved in 84 coups or attempts. Biden went out of his way to isolate IK. The message was very clear- get rid of IK or else. Why were American meeting the likes of Raja Riaz? How would they even know who he is?

BTW
IK has called an election- didnt you want an election

Its a very good story in a banana republic. In a real democracy, the minutes will first have to be attested by all parties involved. Then the cable trails will have to be checked to confirm if anything has been edited. Then one has to establish specific actions to specific instructions including establishing transfer of money / resources. The whole process could take anywhere from 1-3 months. Here we don't have to bother with these formalities

1) Make up a quick story with rough details that can be conveniently changes. Letter or Cable. Threat or Minutes or Conversation. Attach some low ranking US official to this.
2) Bring up random stuff like 84 coups if you are short of evidence to prove direct links for the current one.
3) Prepare a speech for your speaker who will read it out verbatim, so that he doesn't have to do his job.
4) Prepare a recorded speech for President and its done.

Celebrate the victory which is nothing but defeat of whatever little democracy could have been.

I have no stake in this battle. There are only bad options. Imran has proven "Either you die a hero or live long enough to see your become the villain".
 
Just out of curiosity, since a lot of PPers blame current opposition parties for economic failures of Pakistan, Pakistan GDP growth rate remained 5%+ every year in the most recent term of Nawaz Sharif from 2013-18. Infact, much of Chinese investment also came during his regime. GDP growth rate in last year of Nawaz was 5.8% and ever since IK came, it fell down to under 1%. So why does Nawaz get so much blame for economy when he was doing pretty well in his last term?

Nawaz Sharif's government achieved growth rate of 5+ % only in their last year and only once during their term growth rate was above 5%.

During PTI's tenure 2018-2022, growth rate was 5% in FY21 and the current fiscal year ending in June also will have growth rate of 5%. This is the first time since Musharraf left that Pakistan has achieved two consecutive years of 5+% growth rate.


On top of that during PML-N's era exports registered negative growth and fell during their first four years and only rose a bit and returned to 2013 level in 2018. PTI achieved highest ever exports in FY21 and in FY22 the export record is going to be smashed by a long shot. Exports of goods and services are expected to touch $40b this fiscal year. Secondly when PML-N left in 2018, tax collection was measly Rs 3,500b. In three short years, this fiscal year tax collection will surpass Rs 6,100b so PTI managed to nearly double tax collection in three-four years.


Is this much enough or you want more data to dispel your propaganda?
 
Fair to compare pre-covid under imran with Nawaz. Although Nawaz will still fare better in economic paramters. Its just a fact.

Name one economic metric that was better in Nawaz's era?

I can name exports, revenue collection, trade deficit to GDP, foreign exchange, sustained growth rate etc etc that PTI and Imran Khan absolutely smashed Nawaz Sharif.


Obviously for patwaris any thing that their supreme leader Nawaz Sharif touches turns to gold, but the reality is far different than that.
 
Vague story? says who? America has been involved in 84 coups or attempts. Biden went out of his way to isolate IK. The message was very clear- get rid of IK or else. Why were American meeting the likes of Raja Riaz? How would they even know who he is?

BTW
IK has called an election- didnt you want an election

So America wanted Imran gone and Imran obliged himself?
 
So America wanted Imran gone and Imran obliged himself?

America wanted IK gone and so that they could install their puppets. IK failed America's move and put the case in "awaam ki adalat" now if people want Shahbaz Sharif - US puppet as their PM then sau bismillah. Why are PML-N and PPP now suddenly afraid of elections when they have been barking for it since IK took oath?


Only the people of Pakistan will decide who should be their PM. Learn to accept that.
 
Its a very good story in a banana republic. In a real democracy, the minutes will first have to be attested by all parties involved. Then the cable trails will have to be checked to confirm if anything has been edited. Then one has to establish specific actions to specific instructions including establishing transfer of money / resources. The whole process could take anywhere from 1-3 months. Here we don't have to bother with these formalities

1) Make up a quick story with rough details that can be conveniently changes. Letter or Cable. Threat or Minutes or Conversation. Attach some low ranking US official to this.
2) Bring up random stuff like 84 coups if you are short of evidence to prove direct links for the current one.
3) Prepare a speech for your speaker who will read it out verbatim, so that he doesn't have to do his job.
4) Prepare a recorded speech for President and its done.

Celebrate the victory which is nothing but defeat of whatever little democracy could have been.

I have no stake in this battle. There are only bad options. Imran has proven "Either you die a hero or live long enough to see your become the villain".

You watch too much Geo and Hamid Mir. The irony that Noora loosers talk about Democracy when you have done everything to subvert it. In a democracy you don't have the opposition taking orders from a Foreign power, you don't have Foreign diplomats meeting non entities like Riaz and in a democracy you don't have crooks forging alliances to save their loot. In a democracy you do have the right to decide your govt. What scaring you guys is a real democracy where people can see your treacherous losers. Why are you scared of the elections
 
So America wanted Imran gone and Imran obliged himself?

To call an election. Let the people decide. If they want crooks controlled from America to be their leaders then they have to live with their consequences. Why are you guys so scared of an election?
 
No. A constitution is nothing when considering the abuse of politicians and the abandonment of the public by the opposition for the last 30 years. Before real ‘democracy’ there is civil war.
 
Usually big powers meet politicians of both sides. Happens in India too. Doesn't mean its a coup.

Biden got hammered for the Taliban takeover of Afghanistan, you think he would be very happy to meet Imran?

Thing with Afghanistan is that Pakistan were asked to mediate.
The states were very happy to do that and then they themselves pulled out in haste
As for Biden getting burned, he's very capable of doing that all by himself... even another war in the Black Sea hasn't helped him much whereas with past leaders Afghanistan would now be a distant memory.

Regarding the coup, they have minutes of the meetings that took place. As the state security body has also verified it then it most likely was a real security threat

Remember this, or just scroll up in other threads. Just last week the supporters of the opposition were saying that the army had deserted IK... yet just several days later they're now accusing the army of covering it up.

They throw so much garbage in the hole that something sticks because they know another 5 years of IK will not only destroy them politically but will also see them in Jail.
 
Does the 179 figure not include the defector MNAs? Just doing simple math here as the opposition had 198 members on their side on vonc date 176 opposition plus about 22 defectors.

That's correct. Defector MNA's are the ones who were leaving PTI. They weren't part of the majority of 176 votes that the opposition already had. The defectors were indeed 22 and this would take the majority vote from 176 to 198.
 
That's correct. Defector MNA's are the ones who were leaving PTI. They weren't part of the majority of 176 votes that the opposition already had. The defectors were indeed 22 and this would take the majority vote from 176 to 198.

When you done doing pooja of Nawaz Sharif you will realize that as per the constitution you cannot defect and hope to keep your seat. The speaker can immediately disqualify you and elections are held on your seat.



Why are you lot suddenly so afraid of general elections? Afraid that IK's popularity will ensure another government for him? Bhaag kyun rahay ho munnay
 
But if the defector PTI MNAs are disqualified than they would no longer have majority numbers in the house.

Thing with Afghanistan is that Pakistan were asked to mediate.
The states were very happy to do that and then they themselves pulled out in haste
As for Biden getting burned, he's very capable of doing that all by himself... even another war in the Black Sea hasn't helped him much whereas with past leaders Afghanistan would now be a distant memory.

Regarding the coup, they have minutes of the meetings that took place. As the state security body has also verified it then it most likely was a real security threat

Remember this, or just scroll up in other threads. Just last week the supporters of the opposition were saying that the army had deserted IK... yet just several days later they're now accusing the army of covering it up.

They throw so much garbage in the hole that something sticks because they know another 5 years of IK will not only destroy them politically but will also see them in Jail.

So US informed the ambassador that they want imran removed?
 
So US informed the ambassador that they want imran removed?

It's all conjecture until the SC sees the evidence and a decision is made.
However I'm appalled by the double standards of the opposition supporters.
Is the army with the "selected" PM or not? They can't seem to make up their minds

The narrative changes with the wind and the blatant hypocrisy is ridiculous.
One moment they want an election, the next they don't.
I think their desperation tells you how much support IK has from the public.

The one thing that is indisputable is the large scale corruption and theft by all of the opposition.
This is not conjecture
 
So US informed the ambassador that they want imran removed?

Accorsing to many of our officials from foreign offices, the particles in the letter were fabricated by imran and co....

Now foreign office has first hand information.. watch overseas pakistan go crazy :))
 
It's all conjecture until the SC sees the evidence and a decision is made.
However I'm appalled by the double standards of the opposition supporters.
Is the army with the "selected" PM or not? They can't seem to make up their minds

The narrative changes with the wind and the blatant hypocrisy is ridiculous.
One moment they want an election, the next they don't.
I think their desperation tells you how much support IK has from the public.

The one thing that is indisputable is the large scale corruption and theft by all of the opposition.
This is not conjecture

Army can change sides, or they may just want to be neutral, let the politicians fight and create a mess, then walk in as the hero.
 
Accorsing to many of our officials from foreign offices, the particles in the letter were fabricated by imran and co....

Now foreign office has first hand information.. watch overseas pakistan go crazy :))

If it were the minutes of an official meeting, both sides will have authenticated copy.
 
The Speaker 100% followed the constitution.

Or should a nation allow a foreign power dictate its democracy? Lol
 
Nawaz Sharif's government achieved growth rate of 5+ % only in their last year and only once during their term growth rate was above 5%.

During PTI's tenure 2018-2022, growth rate was 5% in FY21 and the current fiscal year ending in June also will have growth rate of 5%. This is the first time since Musharraf left that Pakistan has achieved two consecutive years of 5+% growth rate.


On top of that during PML-N's era exports registered negative growth and fell during their first four years and only rose a bit and returned to 2013 level in 2018. PTI achieved highest ever exports in FY21 and in FY22 the export record is going to be smashed by a long shot. Exports of goods and services are expected to touch $40b this fiscal year. Secondly when PML-N left in 2018, tax collection was measly Rs 3,500b. In three short years, this fiscal year tax collection will surpass Rs 6,100b so PTI managed to nearly double tax collection in three-four years.


Is this much enough or you want more data to dispel your propaganda?

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?locations=PK&start=2008

https://www.statista.com/statistics/383809/export-of-goods-to-pakistan/

https://tradingeconomics.com/pakistan/imports

Can't help if you find the world bank or statista data as propaganda. Exports as a statistic doesn't mean much (any country with even minor growth will overshoot it's last year numbers and you may call it highest ever exports) unless it's looked in the right context - % of GDP or net export/import (trade surplus/trade deficit). On those accounts, there has been a steep decline since IK came to power. And perhaps you may even find the fact that in the first year of IK as PM, which was before covid, inflation doubled from 5% to 10% and had struggled to come back since then.

https://www.macrotrends.net/countri...tion rate for 2020,a 0.32% increase from 2016.
 
When you done doing pooja of Nawaz Sharif you will realize that as per the constitution you cannot defect and hope to keep your seat. The speaker can immediately disqualify you and elections are held on your seat.



Why are you lot suddenly so afraid of general elections? Afraid that IK's popularity will ensure another government for him? Bhaag kyun rahay ho munnay

Yes. And the opposition had 176 without anyone from PTI. The speaker disqualifying those rouge PTI MNA's wouldn't have changed a thing.

That is why this whole election thing, the accusations that more than half of the MNA's are traitors and colluding with the USA only came about after MQM had left the government. Otherwise the speaker could have dismissed it based on those very grounds as soon as it came in.
 
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?locations=PK&start=2008

https://www.statista.com/statistics/383809/export-of-goods-to-pakistan/

https://tradingeconomics.com/pakistan/imports

Can't help if you find the world bank or statista data as propaganda. Exports as a statistic doesn't mean much (any country with even minor growth will overshoot it's last year numbers and you may call it highest ever exports) unless it's looked in the right context - % of GDP or net export/import (trade surplus/trade deficit). On those accounts, there has been a steep decline since IK came to power. And perhaps you may even find the fact that in the first year of IK as PM, which was before covid, inflation doubled from 5% to 10% and had struggled to come back since then.

https://www.macrotrends.net/countri...tion rate for 2020,a 0.32% increase from 2016.

I rely on official data from State Bank of Pakistan. As per SBP, Pakistan's GDP grew by 5.6% in FY21 and all signs point towards another 5+ year growth in the current fiscal year.


Your point has been nullified when you said that under IK economy never grew more than 1%. First educate yourself of all the facts then try to appear smart - lest someone like me who reads these numbers on a daily basis comes and shows you your place.
 
Army can change sides, or they may just want to be neutral, let the politicians fight and create a mess, then walk in as the hero.

I'm not talking about the army changing sides.
It's their thieving opposition that changes their tune
 
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?locations=PK&start=2008

https://www.statista.com/statistics/383809/export-of-goods-to-pakistan/

https://tradingeconomics.com/pakistan/imports

Can't help if you find the world bank or statista data as propaganda. Exports as a statistic doesn't mean much (any country with even minor growth will overshoot it's last year numbers and you may call it highest ever exports) unless it's looked in the right context - % of GDP or net export/import (trade surplus/trade deficit). On those accounts, there has been a steep decline since IK came to power. And perhaps you may even find the fact that in the first year of IK as PM, which was before covid, inflation doubled from 5% to 10% and had struggled to come back since then.

https://www.macrotrends.net/countri...tion rate for 2020,a 0.32% increase from 2016.

Will you confirm that the PMlN took the economic growth snd the accumulated wealth that comes with it and swindled it???
Please hurry up or all your arguments and posts are meaningless
 
Accorsing to many of our officials from foreign offices, the particles in the letter were fabricated by imran and co....

Now foreign office has first hand information.. watch overseas pakistan go crazy :))

Why don't you say according the mafia and Geo.
 
When you done doing pooja of Nawaz Sharif you will realize that as per the constitution you cannot defect and hope to keep your seat. The speaker can immediately disqualify you and elections are held on your seat.



Why are you lot suddenly so afraid of general elections? Afraid that IK's popularity will ensure another government for him? Bhaag kyun rahay ho munnay

Is using the word “pooja” a subtle dig at something else? Is Puja used in Urdu as well?
 
I can appreciate that some of the Indian posters here would love to see a corrupt leader in power.
They can buy their loyalty just like the Americans have done before and are trying to do again.
Politicians can come and go to attend their relatives wedding and the people can be fooled and made to follow whatever the agenda of the day is.

Thankfully there are enough people in Pakistan who can see straight through this narrative
 
Is using the word “pooja” a subtle dig at something else? Is Puja used in Urdu as well?

I'm sorry not meant as a dig on anything. In urdu pooja just means worship.
 
I can appreciate that some of the Indian posters here would love to see a corrupt leader in power.
They can buy their loyalty just like the Americans have done before and are trying to do again.
Politicians can come and go to attend their relatives wedding and the people can be fooled and made to follow whatever the agenda of the day is.

Thankfully there are enough people in Pakistan who can see straight through this narrative

Why would you be concerned with what Indian posters want ? The no-confidence motion or all the political drama has nothing to do with India. In fact don’t think has anything to do with USA either but that’s a different debate. It starts and ends with the Pakistan people, military and the political system.

This is exactly where the stereotype of the average British Pakistani with a myopic view of the world and being heavily anti-india centric comes from.
 
Why would you be concerned with what Indian posters want ? The no-confidence motion or all the political drama has nothing to do with India. In fact don’t think has anything to do with USA either but that’s a different debate. It starts and ends with the Pakistan people, military and the political system.

This is exactly where the stereotype of the average British Pakistani with a myopic view of the world and being heavily anti-india centric comes from.

Well thanks you for that little sermon.
I said I can appreciate why Indians here would be interested.
We already have one poster asking very specific questions and the fact is the BJP would be more then happy to have Shareef / PLMN has the government.

It doesn't concern me one little bit but that doesn't mean I can't comment on it or bring it up.

But I also know that there is another thread about banning the sale of halal meat which should take some attention away from the Pakistan Constitution thread. Or at least it should and I look forward to reading how that decision is actually secular
 
We already have one poster asking very specific questions and the fact is the BJP would be more then happy to have Shareef / PLMN has the government.

BJP government came into power in 2014.

Correct my timeline but Imran came into power in 2018. Before that was Nawaz right.

How was the relationship between the 2 countries in those 4 years?l 2014-2018

26/11 happened in 2008 when there was a congress government and I think Zaradari in power, how was the relation till 2014?

Apart from the Kashmir issue where it is of mutual interest and I am not saying this in a condescending manner but Pakistan needs India more relatively speaking than India needs Pakistan so I don’t think anything will change drastically for India.

I think you are basing this on Imran Khans twtitier rants against Modi and RSS and the response that comes back from social media from India when that happens. Probably that is why lot of people are treating this as an Ind-Pak match lol. That is exactly why I said it is a very myopic way of thinking. That kind of things are not even a drop in the ocean in the larger context. You are focusing your energies in the wrong place.
 
Will you confirm that the PMlN took the economic growth snd the accumulated wealth that comes with it and swindled it???
Please hurry up or all your arguments and posts are meaningless

Bhai i am not from Pakistani, as i mentioned in one of my previous posts, i am just intrigued about the whole situation and trying to understand what's the actual scenario in Pakistan. Economic data suggest that IK has performed poorly, which some poster had pointed out that perhaps even Pakistanis economists agree - https://mobile.twitter.com/ShahramAzhar/status/1510711843333017609

As far as would people like sharif and Zardari would have been corrupt during their regimes, i hav no doubt they would have been. Politicians across the world are corrupt, the level of corruption could differ though. Would they have stolen so much money that had they not done it, Pakistan would have been a different country, i would have no clue about it and you would know better.

Corruption is a way of life for politicians, and they can't stay saint even if they want to. To run political parties, to win elections you need money. Some take money for personal gains, some do it for their parties, some do it to reciprocate favors to people from whom they took favors to get to the PM post. Not justifying corruption but just saying no politician can avoid that as you don't get to the top by being a straight tree.
 
When you done doing pooja of Nawaz Sharif you will realize that as per the constitution you cannot defect and hope to keep your seat. The speaker can immediately disqualify you and elections are held on your seat.



Why are you lot suddenly so afraid of general elections? Afraid that IK's popularity will ensure another government for him? Bhaag kyun rahay ho munnay

Not sure why you're getting so worked up. Please read what you're replying to before getting so emotional.

all I said was that the opposition had majority in the parliament without the need of PTI's defectors.

You just went on another brigade lol. When did I say I was afraid of elections? lol
 
I find it funny so many PTI fans are blatantly supporting the mockery of the constitution by their party. I just wonder what their reaction would be if the tables were turned. Would they still support this unconstitutional move if it was done by Zardari or Nawaz?

It seems as though it's okay for some to break the law but not for others.
 
I find it funny so many PTI fans are blatantly supporting the mockery of the constitution by their party. I just wonder what their reaction would be if the tables were turned. Would they still support this unconstitutional move if it was done by Zardari or Nawaz?

It seems as though it's okay for some to break the law but not for others.

Like I mentioned earlier, opposition started this game by defecting PTI members and flaunting them in the media. Atlas, MQM has confirmed that they changed sides because of the defectors. Without MQM, opposition would not have had majority.
 
Chief Justice Umar Ata Bandial on Wednesday said the apex court wanted to know more about the alleged conspiracy against Prime Minister Imran Khan before issuing its decision in the sou motu case against the ruling issued by the deputy speaker that dismissed the no-confidence motion against Imran on the pretext of a foreign conspiracy.

During the hearing of the case today, Justice Bandial said, “We want to see what the conspiracy was that was used to dismiss the motion.”

He added that the court would also examine whether the speaker had the authority to deviate from the agenda of the house and rely on some other “facts”.

“Whether there was such material present…when did the meeting of the National Security Committee take place,” Justice Bandial went on to ask and said the PTI lawyer, Babar Awan, also needed to tell the court if a constitutional process could be sidelined. An allegation was made in the case, he said, adding that the court wanted to focus on “facts” in the case as the ruling was an action by the speaker.

Awan said a message regarding a meeting which was attended by the deputy head of the mission, defence attache and three other diplomats arrived in Pakistan on March 7. “Was this information coded as you used the term ‘decipher’,” the SC asked. Awan explained that the Foreign Office examined the memo and then a meeting was called that was not attended by the foreign secretary due to unavailability.

“The Ministry of Foreign Affairs makes notes from the cipher and briefs the cabinet,” he said, adding that he had brought a brief with him that he could show the court in an in-camera hearing. However, the court rejected the request, saying it was not asking for the letter at present. “There is nothing in the case that requires an in-camera hearing,” the CJP added.

Awan further said the prime minister was told in a briefing that a country was unhappy with the premier but if the no-confidence motion against him succeeded then everything would be fine. “Then a no-trust motion, already mentioned elsewhere, against Imran is filed on March 8,” he said, claiming that the issue was brought to parliament and a notice was issued in this regard.

He argued that it was incumbent upon citizens to remain loyal to the state. CJP Bandial replied that the ruling only contained allegations, not findings and asked if the speaker could issue a ruling without revealing the facts.

“The court needs to decide on the constitutionality of this particular action,” the judge added.

“Can a speaker go beyond Article 95 to give a ruling that’s not part of the agenda,” the court asked. “You are welcome to defend the ruling but on solid ground,” the chief justice told Awan. “Where are the minutes of the NSC meeting,” the judge asked.

The court wanted facts, Justice Bandial said.

Justice Ijazul Ahsan asked about the briefing to the cabinet by the foreign ministry. “What did the cabinet decide after the briefing,” he asked Awan.

PTI's counsel spoke about the cable but the SC judge told him to leave it to the lawyer of the speaker. “Tell us what did the cabinet decide,” he asked again.

Justice Jamal Mandokhel asked, “What action did the government take against those found involved in the conspiracy.” The government did not take action against them.

Justice Mandokhel added that if the prime minister wanted to form a commission over the alleged conspiracy then he doesn’t know who was involved in it. “I cannot tell what the prime minister knows for the sake of the national interest,” Awan responded.

Justice Bandial added that the court wanted to focus on the legitimacy of the ruling and Article 69. “You are talking about circumstantial evidence,” Justice Ahsan said, adding that how did the government link these circumstances to an individual?

It’s already 1 pm, the CJP said, adding that they wanted to conclude the case.

Express Tribune
 
Like I mentioned earlier, opposition started this game by defecting PTI members and flaunting them in the media. Atlas, MQM has confirmed that they changed sides because of the defectors. Without MQM, opposition would not have had majority.

MQM is not PTI member lol. What are you even on about?
 
Is there a law in pakistan for treason? If yes, were all the opposition MNAs booked under it?
 
MQM is not PTI member lol. What are you even on about?

I don’t know what was so difficult to understand in my post. The opposition created a defection within PTI, which ultimately led to parties like MQM and BAP breaking off from coalition and switching sides. It is not rocket science.
 
Is there a law in pakistan for treason? If yes, were all the opposition MNAs booked under it?

Hearing that if SC dispels the speakers ruling , then he and the people in government who have taken this action will get disqualified for life. If that's true, does that might mean President Arif Alvi also getting the memo?
 
Hearing that if SC dispels the speakers ruling , then he and the people in government who have taken this action will get disqualified for life. If that's true, does that might mean President Arif Alvi also getting the memo?

Using the argument from some of my fellow posters here. Can you prove that the speaker did not take the decision independently and was under the influence of IK and the PTI government?
 
Using the argument from some of my fellow posters here. Can you prove that the speaker did not take the decision independently and was under the influence of IK and the PTI government?

Well how will you prove that speaker did it independently. There is enough circumstantial evidence that he was carrying out instructions of somebody else.
 
Is there a law in pakistan for treason? If yes, were all the opposition MNAs booked under it?

There is law but to be booked under it you have to take issue to court.

A speaker cannot declare people as traitor, he has no authroity..

That is the whole issue. Pti fans doing bhangra on this stupidity. How can 200 mnas be traitors, and if they are than get a court verdict...
 
There is law but to be booked under it you have to take issue to court.

A speaker cannot declare people as traitor, he has no authroity..

That is the whole issue. Pti fans doing bhangra on this stupidity. How can 200 mnas be traitors, and if they are than get a court verdict...

That I agree with you. You don't call fresh elections and give the so called traitors a chance to form the government, when there is a ploy against you and the country. You take the mater to courts especially with the supposed irrefutable proof they have.

The PTI lawyer just said something on the lines of due to national security the PM cannot disclose the evidence in front of the supreme court. Basically we and the supreme court are to take his highness on his word.

But you can't expect much from PTI supportors these days. They have become the thing they hated in the first place, that is delusional fan boys of Imran and the party not willing to hear or tolerate anything against the beloved leader.
 
There is law but to be booked under it you have to take issue to court.

A speaker cannot declare people as traitor, he has no authroity..

That is the whole issue. Pti fans doing bhangra on this stupidity. How can 200 mnas be traitors, and if they are than get a court verdict...

Yes. If there is a treason law then the govt should have first booked them under that law and then they should have been convicted under it.

Its amusing how a house speaker can declare a house member as a traitor.

Even after the NA proceedings, have they booked anyone under that law?
 
There is law but to be booked under it you have to take issue to court.

A speaker cannot declare people as traitor, he has no authroity..

That is the whole issue. Pti fans doing bhangra on this stupidity. How can 200 mnas be traitors, and if they are than get a court verdict...

And if they are traitors who are not loyal to the state, how can they stand for re-election ? Bizarre is not the word.
 
Yes. If there is a treason law then the govt should have first booked them under that law and then they should have been convicted under it.

Its amusing how a house speaker can declare a house member as a traitor.

Even after the NA proceedings, have they booked anyone under that law?

No one is booked... And no one will be because if matters go to court than imran wont be able to do his next election campaign on foreing interbention as court would prove underwise.

Pti fans wont talk about this, and think the deputy speaker is truthful.

Not eben speaker, but deputy speaker of all people.
 
And if they are traitors who are not loyal to the state, how can they stand for re-election ? Bizarre is not the word.

Exactlt, but than logic is not something pti fans will understand ...
 
LOL, since when does TLP care about the constitution.

Anyway TLP is the worse Mullah party in the country. At least the other ones are not dynastic, and have some semblance of internal democracy. TLP could not find anyone other than Saad Rizvi to take over from his father Khadim Rizvi?

Like IK said all the thieves will join forces against him.
 
Well how will you prove that speaker did it independently. There is enough circumstantial evidence that he was carrying out instructions of somebody else.

It doesn’t work like that, the speaker made a decision and unless proven otherwise it should technically be considered an independent decision.
 
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