Pakistani players no longer want to be superstars

[Pete Rose]

I was watching one of the post-game analysis shows on PTV a few weeks ago. Shoaib Akhtar was also part of the panel. I will be the first to admit that he does not offer particularly insightful commentary. But something he said on the post game analysis on day 4 struck with me. Shafiq had scored a century and all kinds of hopes were kindled for day 5. His words (I paraphrase for clarity):

"This boy has done really well, but tonight he should be thinking I can be a superstar, I can do something no one has done before. And thats what I want all these boys to think: that the world is watching and we can all become superstars here"

I will be the first to admit that our teams of the past have been massive underachievers: these were teams with guys like Wasim, Waqar, Anwar, Inzi, Razzaq, Afridi, Azhar Mahmood. They were individually talented, but prone to implosions and as time went on they became even worse due to various well documented issues.

But I would rather not focus on their full career, I would focus on how these guys began their careers. They all made their mark very early in their careers. They were not manufactured cricketers. Sure they has plenty of weaknesses. But despite call that, I can list a few things:
- Wasim was man of the match in his second test match
- Waqar's first tour to Australia had the wicketkeeper standing near the boundary
- Afridi's first batting innings in an odi was a 37 ball century, and his first test match was 5-fer vs. Australia
- Inzi had his world cup (despite failing through most of it)
- Aamer Nazir bamboozled richie richardson and a few others on his maiden tour of the windies
- Basit Ali averaged above 40 for his maiden test tour of the then world test champions, west Indies
- Saeed Anwar's first tour of Australia had the commentators astonished that an opener was charging at fast bowlers
- Shoaib Akhar had those two wickets in Calcutta
- Saleem malik had the nehru cup

I fully realize that a lot of the guys that I used as examples above did not have the grit or the discipline or the mental toughness to sustain their initial spark or perhaps failed when up against tougher competition, once the opposition figured out how to shut them down. But nonetheless, as corny as it is they had the brashness, the madness, the self confidence to take the world take notice.

Take Lebron James: he has gone in to pressers before finals saying stuff like "I feel confident because I am the best player in the world......its the finals everybody dreams of playing in the finals and doing well"
Of course with Lebron all of that sounds credible given what he has achieved, but at the beginning of his career he was driven be fear of failure. "I wanted to avoid failure at all costs"

I know that the team has had psychiatrists and specialists coaches and what not, but those guys don't go with you when you get in to the ring. Once you are in the ring: you have to want it, you have to dream of beating the other guy to a pulp. And perhaps this mindset has left Pakistan's limited over teams. Too many of our players go in there, shoulders drooped, grim expressions, forever thinking about re-building, resurrecting, surviving. I am not going to get into useless debate on whether its Misbah's fault or selection inconsistency or lack of backing.
All I will say is that some of the guys that I mentioned above came from lesser backgrounds and had even less staff room support. What they had was a burning desire to stand out to make a difference.

I watched Umar Akmal's innings today, sure it was the usual brainless stuff and sure his game is too loose. But at least in that short innings, he was trying to do stuff that others hadn't done. He wanted to get after the opposition's best bowler. And I think there is something that Pakistan can take away from that - you have to dream big , you have to want to be a superstar. There is a time and place for winning ugly. But there is also dividends if you think like a superstar. The results will come, but until then you have to fake it till you make it.

 

[Slog]

The problem is that the guys with some actual steel and capability to perform dont seem to rate themselves and have timid disposition

And the hacks are super cocky and think they have already achieved everything

 

[Pete Rose]

The problem is that the guys with some actual steel and capability to perform dont seem to rate themselves and have timid disposition

And the hacks are super cocky and think they have already achieved everything

The point is whether you are genuinely good or feel that you are, it's better to aim high.

 

[Saj]

Too many of them think they are superstars after one or two decent performances.

I prefer players who actually perform on a consistent basis and aren't bothered about being superstars.

Too many wannabees in Pakistan cricket.

 

[Haroon786]

Don't think there is anyone Pakistani player that has performed acceptably to a WC standard on the two main formats of the game in recent years.

How can you have the persona of a superstar when you're not good enough to perform an across several formats ?

 

[MRSN]

I watched Umar Akmal's innings today, sure it was the usual brainless stuff and sure his game is too loose. But at least in that short innings, he was trying to do stuff that others hadn't done. He wanted to get after the opposition's best bowler. And I think there is something that Pakistan can take away from that - you have to dream big , you have to want to be a superstar. There is a time and place for winning ugly. But there is also dividends if you think like a superstar. The results will come, but until then you have to fake it till you make it.

nothing wrong with that but problem is he is making a comeback. I don't want to go in the past and how he has been treated but first of all he has to make sure that he scores runs. no matter how and what pace. This is very important for his career that he scores some fifties..it does not matter if they are match winning or not. In Pakistan,off late sadly, batsmen are not judged by talent,skills or hunger to be world beaters as you said but they are judged by the no. of runs they score.. This idea was introduced during Misbah's days. That's why people used to give his examples to youngster to learn from. He has to have a bit of selfishness in him if he wants to succeed in Pakistan otherwise this system will crush him forever and this could be his last chance...

so while passion and hunger to be world beater and take on the best is good he should never forget his place is in danger. He has to make sure his place is safe and secure. He needs to get some easy runs without playing too many risky shots.

 

[Pete Rose]

I think it is a mistake to think that you have to earn the superstar status. Sometimes you have to visualize it to get it.

 

[Pete Rose]

Don't think there is anyone Pakistani player that has performed acceptably to a WC standard on the two main formats of the game in recent years.

How can you have the persona of a superstar when you're not good enough to perform an across several formats ?

The idea that you should think of yourself as a superstar only when you perform as one is flawed. To achieve big you have to dream big. This thread is not repudiation of misbah and his method. I value consistency, but it's not the same as beating the other guy.

 

[Pete Rose]

Too many of them think they are superstars after one or two decent performances.

I prefer players who actually perform on a consistent basis and aren't bothered about being superstars.

Too many wannabees in Pakistan cricket.

To me it's contrary we have too many guys who value hard work as an end objective.

 

[Pete Rose]

nothing wrong with that but problem is he is making a comeback. I don't want to go in the past and how he has been treated but first of all he has to make sure that he scores runs. no matter how and what pace. This is very important for his career that he scores some fifties..it does not matter if they are match winning or not. In Pakistan,off late sadly, batsmen are not judged by talent,skills or hunger to be world beaters as you said but they are judged by the no. of runs they score.. This idea was introduced during Misbah's days. That's why people used to give his examples to youngster to learn from. He has to have a bit of selfishness in him if he wants to succeed in Pakistan otherwise this system will crush him forever and this could be his last chance...

so while passion and hunger to be world beater and take on the best is good he should never forget his place is in danger. He has to make sure his place is safe and secure. He needs to get some easy runs without playing too many risky shots.

I don't want to link this to misbah. It's happened under too many different coaches to be a misbah problem. But perhaps now is the time to allow for inspiration

 

[kingusama92]

The good players are timid and the bad players are "superstars".

This is why things are upside down in Pakistan cricket. You need 1-2 superstars who are good and can hold their own in the dressing room.

Right now there's a void and either a player earns respect because he's a senior or rubbish players try to play the role.

 

[Saj]

To me it's contrary we have too many guys who value hard work as an end objective.

They aren't the ones who think they are superstars though.

 

[Pete Rose]

They aren't the ones who think they are superstars though.

They should

 

[blue_champion]

Based on this thread looks like Sreeshanth would have been a bigger superstar in Pakistan than a Che Pujara.

What is a superstar anyways?

Azhar Ali has nearly 5000 test runs,A 300 in tests,A 200 in Australia but he is lame where as Asif has a grand total of 106 test wickets is a superstar???

A superstar becomes a superstar because of his work ethic.

Complain about a player's work ethic...what is up with this Superstar,product,package nonsense I hear fro ma lot of ex Pakistani cricketers.

 

[Haroon786]

The idea that you should think of yourself as a superstar only when you perform as one is flawed. To achieve big you have to dream big. This thread is not repudiation of misbah and his method. I value consistency, but it's not the same as beating the other guy.

I disagree - this has nothing to do with Misbah or anyone at the top brass right now. There is not a single player in Pakistan that has performed well enough to be regarded as WC in both formats for several years simultaneously, why expect any player to see themselves as a superstar ?

Also the ones that do, are awful player who shouldn't be playing international cricket.

Superstar is a superfluous word that is only relevant to ATG players who are very popular in their country and around the world, the only exception being Afridi who wasn't an ATG. Currently, I'd only call someone like Kohli as a superstar.

 

[Pete Rose]

I disagree - this has nothing to do with Misbah or anyone at the top brass right now. There is not a single player in Pakistan that has performed well enough to be regarded as WC in both formats for several years simultaneously, why expect any player to see themselves as a superstar ?

Also the ones that do, are awful player who shouldn't be playing international cricket.

Superstar is a superfluous word that is only relevant to ATG players who are very popular in their country and around the world, the only exception being Afridi who wasn't an ATG. Currently, I'd only call someone like Kohli as a superstar.

Its not about whether we think a player is a superstar when he isn't. It's more about how the player sees himself. Here on pp we assume that if a player overrates himself then it's all negative: because e.g. the player won't learn when he makes a mistake etc etc, or that he won't be humble. There are positives to it as well.

 

[coy0607]

when someone with superstar potential does come up and performs (like Babar) - he gets demoted down the order

 

[Haroon786]

Its not about whether we think a player is a superstar when he isn't. It's more about how the player sees himself. Here on pp we assume that if a player overrates himself then it's all negative: because e.g. the player won't learn when he makes a mistake etc etc, or that he won't be humble. There are positives to it as well.

I think the concept of 'superstar' is just media perception - it essentially means someone who is very popular and has an arrogant and flashy persona. From yesteryear, the likes of Imran and SRT were personally not at all arrogant or behaved arrogantly and hyped themselves up; they were humble majority of the time (exceptions perhaps being the 92 WC winning speech for IK and the post 2003 WC QF interview for SRT - which iirc some posters on here said that there were some rather out of character remarks from the little master) and on field had their own natural personas, no manufactured and attention seeking stunts at all. Even recently, the likes of Kohli (his most recent iteration), Root and Smith - the best batsmen in the world are all reasonably down to earth too and don't have a superstar attitude at all.

 

[Asim2Good]

Wish Akhtar had and his team mates night before these games too
1999 WC Final
2003 WC game with India
Their 1999 tour to Aus

Short term achievements listed in OP, this team also had those moments

 

[Saj]

They should

No idea what you are on about.

The fact is our superstars are only superstars in their own mind.

 

[Pete Rose]

I think the concept of 'superstar' is just media perception - it essentially means someone who is very popular and has an arrogant and flashy persona. From yesteryear, the likes of Imran and SRT were personally not at all arrogant or behaved arrogantly and hyped themselves up; they were humble majority of the time (exceptions perhaps being the 92 WC winning speech for IK and the post 2003 WC QF interview for SRT - which iirc some posters on here said that there were some rather out of character remarks from the little master) and on field had their own natural personas, no manufactured and attention seeking stunts at all. Even recently, the likes of Kohli (his most recent iteration), Root and Smith - the best batsmen in the world are all reasonably down to earth too and don't have a superstar attitude at all.

Do you think that all these people are successful solely and only because they worked hard. Do you think not for a moment they had dreams of doing bigger things. Or do you think they were thinking let's take it one day at a time and if I work hard enough things will happen.

 

[Pete Rose]

No idea what you are on about.

The fact is our superstars are only superstars in their own mind.

a team needs a balance of players. Not everyone will fit in to the 'if I work hard, stay humble, have good sportsman spirit, I will be a winner' mould. Sometimes you need a spark of inspiration

 

[Pete Rose]

Wish Akhtar had and his team mates night before these games too
1999 WC Final
2003 WC game with India
Their 1999 tour to Aus

Short term achievements listed in OP, this team also had those moments

And I don't deny that, do I. Sports more than anything else requires you to enhance the positives and diminish the negatives. If you want to forever stay humble, you will never find the inspiration to achieve bigger things. Please note I have never said it's either or. Just saying that a team needs a mix of characters

 

[Haroon786]

Do you think that all these people are successful solely and only because they worked hard. Do you think not for a moment they had dreams of doing bigger things. Or do you think they were thinking let's take it one day at a time and if I work hard enough things will happen.

Yes, I agree with that but that is not being a 'superstar'. They didn't behave like primadonnas who deserved preferential treatment in the dressing room and that they would only do things as they believed them to be.

The nomenclature you are looking for is ATG not superstar, which in my opinion has a negative connotation to it.

 

[Pete Rose]

Yes, I agree with that but that is not being a 'superstar'. They didn't behave like primadonnas who deserved preferential treatment in the dressing room and that they would only do things as they believed them to be.

The nomenclature you are looking for is ATG not superstar, which in my opinion has a negative connotation to it.

Fine. I don't really quibble on the words. Swagger, attitude whatever

 

[Abdullah719]

Fine. I don't really quibble on the words. Swagger, attitude whatever

Like when Imad hit Cummins over his head for a six...?

I think I understand where you're coming from and I largely agree. It's one of the many problems plaguing us at the moment.

Superstar not in the sense of arrogance etc., but self-confidence and ambition.

 

[Haroon786]

Fine. I don't really quibble on the words. Swagger, attitude whatever

I think I understand what you mean now.

Hardly any Pakistani player has said that he wants to become great in bowling or batting, that he wants to become a world class player in all formats. Yes I don't recall any saying that, but my point is that if you don't show the potential to excel multilaterall then you shouldn't place undue pressure on yourself by saying things you may not be able to achieve, particularly in a country where every new youngster is hyped to be the next ATG.

Again back to examples, was Imran rather bratty in his behaviour before (at all though specifically talking about the start) he changed his bowling action ? Was Steve Smith publicly saying he's an ATG in the making before his comeback to the Australian team ?

 

[Pete Rose]

Like when Imad hit Cummins over his head for a six...?

I think I understand where you're coming from and I largely agree. It's one of the many problems plaguing us at the moment.

Superstar not in the sense of arrogance etc., but self-confidence and ambition.

Yeah. These guys work so hard in the nets. Yet when they get in the ring, they get tense. They need to enjoy the game, entertain, and compete with an opposing player

 

[Pete Rose]

I think I understand what you mean now.

Hardly any Pakistani player has said that he wants to become great in bowling or batting, that he wants to become a world class player in all formats. Yes I don't recall any saying that, but my point is that if you don't show the potential to excel multilaterall then you shouldn't place undue pressure on yourself by saying things you may not be able to achieve, particularly in a country where every new youngster is hyped to be the next ATG.

Again back to examples, was Imran rather bratty in his behaviour before (at all though specifically talking about the start) he changed his bowling action ? Was Steve Smith publicly saying he's an ATG in the making before his comeback to the Australian team ?

I agree that it might not need to be a public proclamation, but at least you should believe in yourself. Maybe I overread, but this Aussie tour has been more about lack of self belief rather than lack of skill. Should a batting line up like ours end up getting dismissed like we did on the last day at Melbourne or SCG. Remember this was a team with the confidence of five years behind them. I think despite all the good work pakistan has done over the last five years, we have to acknowledge that we have a problem when we are put under pressure. And no amount of hard work in the nets is going to solve that. When the heat is on, sometimes you have to puff up your chest and express yourself rather than endlessly absorb pressure as a way of tiring out the opposition

 

[Asim2Good]

And I don't deny that, do I. Sports more than anything else requires you to enhance the positives and diminish the negatives. If you want to forever stay humble, you will never find the inspiration to achieve bigger things. Please note I have never said it's either or. Just saying that a team needs a mix of characters

my response was mainly on Akhtar's thought about players not want to be superstars.
and then list of achievements , this team also had like
Wahab's WC2011 semi final
Amir's 2010 Eng Trip
Junaid in India
Nasir Jamshed's back to back hundred against India
Azhar Ali's 100 against SL in that run chase
Whole team effort in Run Chase against SL which "superstar" never even dreamed of.

 

[PakLFC]

Superstar syndrome will not make us win against top sides. Australia at their best didn't have this complex, we need eleven good to brilliant players not superstars. Superstardom will give them an attitude problem as well that comes with it's own problem's. A great players that he surely was but the likes of Wasim Akram of the 90's team of was considered to be very arrogant and full of themselves as well.

 

[kingusama92]

Superstar syndrome will not make us win against top sides. Australia at their best didn't have this complex, we need eleven good to brilliant players not superstars. Superstardom will give them an attitude problem as well that comes with it's own problem's. A great players that he surely was but the likes of Wasim Akram of the 90's team of was considered to be very arrogant and full of themselves as well.

Aussies are exceptional because they have that incredible self-belief. I'd never mistake an Aussie player as being timid.

Even their rookies come in with a hint of "I know I deserve to be here and I'll take what's mine" mindset.

Our players look and act with a "Where's my mommy?" mindset even if they're legitimately talented and it starts seeping into their approach to batting/bowling/fielding.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Good Post.

Some nostalgia.


People who had tapparh. A 15 years old (experience wise)
Wasim had the ability and belief that he would still get a well set 60 averaging Michael Bevan out with his speed and skill. And he did it.

A foul mouthed terrible attitude Akhtar was hated by senior Waugh yet on the field Shoaib had an attitude

Ya Ajj Mein Nai Ya Aey Nai


These players do not have that ability and skillset. Taparh, Jigra, belief comes later.

 

[abughio]

many people here wont agree with you.. but there should be fire in belly to be superstar..

one should see himself as superstar but with that he should also know his deficiencies and should work on them too..

and I fully agree with [MENTION=107807]Pete Rose[/MENTION] .. think of yourself as superstar and then work hard to prove it..

one friend of mine told me that ASIF had that.. he knew from very starting days that he will go big and he is superstar.. he did prove it//

 

[PakLFC]

Aussies are exceptional because they have that incredible self-belief. I'd never mistake an Aussie player as being timid.

Even their rookies come in with a hint of "I know I deserve to be here and I'll take what's mine" mindset.

Our players look and act with a "Where's my mommy?" mindset even if they're legitimately talented and it starts seeping into their approach to batting/bowling/fielding.

We fan's overrate our player's then feel so let down when they fail to perform. Australian's on the other hand perform more often then not. Yesterday they were almost down and out yet came back to score close to 300 when the overs were out. The amazing thing was even when they were five our six down for under a 100 I knew they would set a good score. Even I as a Pak fan believed in them! By comparison we just blow hot air all the time. I said so before that we will get tanked here and in New Zealand!! Now I will be accused of being an Indian!!

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Bring back the dark green gloves, lift green forearm band and green lipstick(aswell)

May be it could spurr him on


[UTUBE]5G9tDU7BsDU[/UTUBE]

 

[kingusama92]

We fan's overrate our player's then feel so let down when they fail to perform. Australian's on the other hand perform more often then not. Yesterday they were almost down and out yet came back to score close to 300 when the overs were out. The amazing thing was even when they were five our six down for under a 100 I knew they would set a good score. Even I as a Pak fan believed in them! By comparison we just blow hot air all the time. I said so before that we will get tanked here and in New Zealand!! Now I will be accused of being an Indian!!

Absolutely.

The fan base starts backing players who are rubbish and puts them at that "superstar" level before they've earned it.

Forget the fans, Pakistan's selectors and team management do the same.

By the time that fake superstar gets found out, he's a senior and starts dictating terms based on his age.

It's a vicious cycle and a selector with guts to dismantle seniority is required. Inzi should have been that man, but he seems quite fond of bringing back the same used parts.

 

[Ilan Bluestone]

When you lack the talent, you cannot make yourself become something.

Holistically speaking we don't have the talent, and to close the gap when you lack it, you need hard work, lo and behold Azhar Ali, but there are limitations to that. It works in tests, but when you don't have the array of shots, then in that game you look mediocre.

Ali came with a bang in his return scoring 75 at a 90+SR in his first five back in 2015, and since then is at 31 with a 75 SR. I will give him credit for his hard work, but it only goes so far.

Then when you lack the talent you will only put these mediocre teams together. It starts from the grassroots level. Unfortunately nepotism and cronyism are too prevalent in Pakistan and it deters those who may have talent to get a chance, and as such they don't grow as they should and we stay at mediocrity. Then as our players who are the role models who kids look up to are already mediocre, then you will get at best mediocre result and as such it will only deteriorate further and further.

Those who were skilled, talented and very good players, mostly retired players, have instead of being pioneers for next generations, become self invested and want to make a living off of their retired life as commentators or personalities. It is quite unfortunate.

I don't disagree about wanting to become a superstar and having the mentality to be great should play a part, however if you simply aren't good enough, then it's irrelevant. Maybe Umar when he came had that kind of talent, but unfortunately his head was in the clouds too quickly.

I always find hoping for the best, instead of saying I will be x or y and staying humble is a better case for success.

Of course many of the best (and again we are talking the best of the best) such as Jordan, Lebron, Curry, Ronaldo, have in fact said they are the best, and obviously thought they would be great, but most usually keep it to themselves and let the play do the talking.

The intricacies of the game are being missed. Wanting to be the best is great, wanting to put in the work, listen to criticism, make changes as necessary is where the pudding is, and most players lack that aspect of it. We have too many players with the pizzazz of being stars in their mind, and then they will after one six, close their eyes for another big shot and get out, but remind others they are better than most because they simply popular and have never put in the work or used the talent they may have had to actually be one of the best.

The name on the back has become more important than the name on the front.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

I am sorry but I disagree with the OP and many people have got it clearly wrong in this thread here.

The wanting to be a superstar is nothing but a pure mythology based on perception of how a team plays. And a team plays according to its respective capabilities. That's not to say that capabilities of the team cannot improve. Sure they can. But I'll comment on how a bit later.

The author cites the example of LeBron James as a principle example of how he "dreamed big". The author says initially at the start of the career he "wanted to avoid failure at all costs".

Lets dissect this statement. How did the "rookie of the year" AVOID FAILURE? Did he do it by shooting outrageous baskets and three pointers from behind the half line ? Or did he do it by going on to one on one duels with Shaq o Neill or Kobe Bryant? The answer might seem one of those but it is not there.

The only thing LeBron James knew is that "he wanted to avoid failure at all costs". So LeBron James did the unthinkable. He did what no Pakistani cricketer or even fan accepts as true.

HE PRACTICED.

HE WORKED HIS **** OFF.

He hit the courts at night and went out of his way to avoid failure. He worked on his skills and he worked on his technique. He spent hours on the court perfecting his basic skills.

And when he went into the court, he had less to fear because he knew his basics were right. He knew he was still in for a fight. But besides the random "I wanted to avoid failure at all costs" he had the attitude to work hard to avoid failure.

I am sorry just dreams and perceptions don't change the players stature or make him magically turn into a divine figure of extreme importance.

Expanding on that I hope someone reads "Lance Armstrong's Book" "It's not About the Bike, My Journey into Life".

Reading that books makes you think a lot as a human. But one excerpt I will never forget.

"I have been told that I flew down the mountainous passes of Tour De France while on my to victory. That is nothing but nonsense. You have to pedal just like the others. You have to expend every bit of energy practicing every day. And maybe just maybe, if you have done enough you will reach the end faster than others."


No sporting hero can attribute just dreaming big as his penchant for success. Dreaming big is one aspect and I am sure all the Umar Akmals and Shehzad's dream just as big as Michael Schumacher, Pele, Kobe or Roger Federer. But that will NEVER AND I REPEAT NEVER remove hard work and repeat practice.

Now the second part of the discussion.

The author somehow believes that the current generation of players are hard workers who are let down by failure to dream big.

I totally digress. The current version of players are lazy workers who actually like to dream too big without putting in the miles involved.

Azhar Ali despite all his test successes is still unable to find a way to break his natural defensive stance in ODI's even after two years. He has failed to develop any methodology for him that will enable him to score at a quicker pace in ODI's.

Is that because he is naturally not good enough? I don't believe in it. He might not be as good as others in that aspect, but if he works hard he can surely derive a method that works much better. But he is too lazy to do so and he perhaps worried if he does, his test technique might suffer and become more open. So he opts for the safe and lazy route.

The same could be said for Umar Akmal. Do you really think in 7 years Umar Akmal has done enough homework on himself or looked at his videos to even see what he is doing wrong? Why he keeps getting out the same way on a useless slog?

All he probably does is reinforce the fans behavior "I am a natural aggressive player who will take risks and sometimes I will get out cheaply but selectors must back me forever for this approach".

Real life doesn't work like that. If you fail to improve even after 2 years in any aspect you are not even working towards improving.

Hard work always pays off.

The only reason we haven't had a superstar over the last so many years is, cricket has become more and more professional. People now work on their deficiencies and try to overcome them and become better. They study video analysis and change their games according to situations.

The desire to improve, to be the best, to be constantly shifting in the paradigm of life is what differentiates a superstar from an average Joe. After you have done your homework, you can dream big and achieve what you are destined for.

But if you are going to appreciate knocks like Akmal's and knocks like Sharjeel's which are epitome of "If they come off, I might win the game, but oh well if the don't on to the next day" you are going to be staring at the height of mediocrity for a long time.

Pakistan cricket is down and stuck in a rut because players are lazy , opportune and always waiting for a failure of one of their mates to get a backdoor into the side.

And even if they dreamed of the moon, they will keep going further into the dust.

I am sorry for harsh truth.

 

[Pete Rose]

As with most things in life there is no one sole route to success.
I see a few comments here seeming to suggest that having a superstar attitude alone will get you to the top. I have never suggested that.
Whereas a few others do not like the use of the word - because they think it implies narcissism or delusion.

There is a credible body of psychology that exists around 'fake it till you make it'
By all counts these guys practice very very hard in the nets. Yet often when they get in to the game situation, they falter at crunch time. At crunch time, everything they practiced goes out the window. They fall back on all the bad habits that they have been practicing hard to avoid.
I think self belief goes a long long way in getting you through situations like that. You have to believe you are better than the guy in front of you, you have to believe you belong and of course you need to be hardworking etc etc.
But without belief, without a desire to light a spark, it's all drudgery.
This mindset that success comes through: hard work, humility, and honest self assessment is not wrong. But none of it works if you don't rate yourself

 

[Pete Rose]

When you lack the talent, you cannot make yourself become something.

Holistically speaking we don't have the talent, and to close the gap when you lack it, you need hard work, lo and behold Azhar Ali, but there are limitations to that. It works in tests, but when you don't have the array of shots, then in that game you look mediocre.

Ali came with a bang in his return scoring 75 at a 90+SR in his first five back in 2015, and since then is at 31 with a 75 SR. I will give him credit for his hard work, but it only goes so far.

Then when you lack the talent you will only put these mediocre teams together. It starts from the grassroots level. Unfortunately nepotism and cronyism are too prevalent in Pakistan and it deters those who may have talent to get a chance, and as such they don't grow as they should and we stay at mediocrity. Then as our players who are the role models who kids look up to are already mediocre, then you will get at best mediocre result and as such it will only deteriorate further and further.

Those who were skilled, talented and very good players, mostly retired players, have instead of being pioneers for next generations, become self invested and want to make a living off of their retired life as commentators or personalities. It is quite unfortunate.

I don't disagree about wanting to become a superstar and having the mentality to be great should play a part, however if you simply aren't good enough, then it's irrelevant. Maybe Umar when he came had that kind of talent, but unfortunately his head was in the clouds too quickly.

I always find hoping for the best, instead of saying I will be x or y and staying humble is a better case for success.

Of course many of the best (and again we are talking the best of the best) such as Jordan, Lebron, Curry, Ronaldo, have in fact said they are the best, and obviously thought they would be great, but most usually keep it to themselves and let the play do the talking.

The intricacies of the game are being missed. Wanting to be the best is great, wanting to put in the work, listen to criticism, make changes as necessary is where the pudding is, and most players lack that aspect of it. We have too many players with the pizzazz of being stars in their mind, and then they will after one six, close their eyes for another big shot and get out, but remind others they are better than most because they simply popular and have never put in the work or used the talent they may have had to actually be one of the best.

The name on the back has become more important than the name on the front.

But that's exactly the point. I believe the players don't back themselves, even privately. Jordan Lebron didn't talk about their greatness before they achieved, but they definitely talk a lot about how they never doubted themselves st the beginning of their career without claiming it to the world. See this thread not as a panacea to all that ails us. It is a part of solution for me

 

[Hawkeye]

[MENTION=107807]Pete Rose[/MENTION], I get what you're trying to say. People are missing your point.


You definitely need that 'superstar' thinking -- i.e., the belief, confidence, and self-backing that you can take the best opposition apart.

Not just timidly hang your head, 'work hard' in the nets, go out in the middle in a packed stadium and then lose your nuts. Letting anxiety take over you.

You'll underperform 80% of the time if you're just timid nervous wreck.

 

[waleed88]

Potential superstars in our side :

Sharjeel : doesn't have the attitude to make it happen, one innings in PSL and vs Ireland.. needs to make it big against the big guns

Umar Akmal : used to be able to take the game away from opposition, but now too unfit to make that happen

Babar Azam : the most likely next superstar in our side, has all the ingredients, but with a poor test match series his confidence is low, also what the hell is up with giving slip catching practice after looking good for 33 runs..

Mohammad Amir : savior of Pakistan cricket, however one good spell is followed by three below average ones.. his performance is a sine wave with bigger troughs than peaks..

Imad Wasim : The most consistent superstar in our side, has the swag to pull it off too.. whether he can carry on like this who knows

 

[Dr_Bassim]

As with most things in life there is no one sole route to success.
I see a few comments here seeming to suggest that having a superstar attitude alone will get you to the top. I have never suggested that.
Whereas a few others do not like the use of the word - because they think it implies narcissism or delusion.

There is a credible body of psychology that exists around 'fake it till you make it'
By all counts these guys practice very very hard in the nets. Yet often when they get in to the game situation, they falter at crunch time. At crunch time, everything they practiced goes out the window. They fall back on all the bad habits that they have been practicing hard to avoid.
I think self belief goes a long long way in getting you through situations like that. You have to believe you are better than the guy in front of you, you have to believe you belong and of course you need to be hardworking etc etc.
But without belief, without a desire to light a spark, it's all drudgery.
This mindset that success comes through: hard work, humility, and honest self assessment is not wrong. But none of it works if you don't rate yourself

Unfortunately there is no evidence that these guys practice harder than Kohli, Root or Steven Smith.

 

[Tera Gawaandi]

Based on this thread looks like Sreeshanth would have been a bigger superstar in Pakistan than a Che Pujara.

What is a superstar anyways?

Azhar Ali has nearly 5000 test runs,A 300 in tests,A 200 in Australia but he is lame where as Asif has a grand total of 106 test wickets is a superstar???

A superstar becomes a superstar because of his work ethic.

Complain about a player's work ethic...what is up with this Superstar,product,package nonsense I hear fro ma lot of ex Pakistani cricketers.

Sreeshanth won you a test in South Africa, made Kallis dance. What has Pujara achieved outside India? Ridicule all him you want, but people will watch Sreesanth's spells for long long time. Individual brilliance matters, not everyone is pseudo nationalist. Single individual brilliance of Tendulkar filled BCCI's coffers. Sports need superstars, Likes of W.G. Grace and Tendulkar have revolutionized cricket.

 

[Pete Rose]

Unfortunately there is no evidence that these guys practice harder than Kohli, Root or Steven Smith.

This is tautology based on your bias (I use the word neutrally). I.e. Because these players are successful it must mean they practice more than others.
Hypothesis being that hard is key differentiator.
And that's wrong.

 

[Statsman]

Umaṛ Akmal charging on to Starc was one of the most stupid things I've seen on the cricket field. You chose the bowlers to attack (Travis Head???) and respect the good ones.

Starc is not just "good" but happens to be the best ODI bowler in world cricket.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

This is tautology based on your bias (I use the word neutrally). I.e. Because these players are successful it must mean they practice more than others.
Hypothesis being that hard is key differentiator.
And that's wrong.

If they practice more than others, they shouldn't be making the same mistakes for last 2-7 years.

I play tennis professionally and I make mistakes too.

But if I still make the mistakes I made 2 years ago, then clearly I haven't progressed my game any further.

There could be multiple reasons for that.

But the biggest reason is, I don't practice enough to overcome the mistake I keep making.

There is nothing simpler than that.

 

[Pete Rose]

If they practice more than others, they shouldn't be making the same mistakes for last 2-7 years.

I play tennis professionally and I make mistakes too.

But if I still make the mistakes I made 2 years ago, then clearly I haven't progressed my game any further.

There could be multiple reasons for that.

But the biggest reason is, I don't practice enough to overcome the mistake I keep making.

There is nothing simpler than that.

Not the same thing. You are not a professional sportsman

 

[FlickedOffHips]

Fair shout.

 

[Hawkeye]

If they practice more than others, they shouldn't be making the same mistakes for last 2-7 years.

I play tennis professionally and I make mistakes too.

But if I still make the mistakes I made 2 years ago, then clearly I haven't progressed my game any further.

There could be multiple reasons for that.

But the biggest reason is, I don't practice enough to overcome the mistake I keep making.

There is nothing simpler than that.

Just working hard doesn't mean you'll become the top ranked.

If you think other tennis players work any less than Federer, you're deluded. In fact they could be working way harder yet can't reach this level.

There other factors involved. Belief, nerves, confidence, talent, application.

There's no logical argument to suggest Smith or Kohli work harder than other cricketer s and it's not true either.

 

[Haroon786]

I agree that it might not need to be a public proclamation, but at least you should believe in yourself. Maybe I overread, but this Aussie tour has been more about lack of self belief rather than lack of skill. Should a batting line up like ours end up getting dismissed like we did on the last day at Melbourne or SCG. Remember this was a team with the confidence of five years behind them. I think despite all the good work pakistan has done over the last five years, we have to acknowledge that we have a problem when we are put under pressure. And no amount of hard work in the nets is going to solve that. When the heat is on, sometimes you have to puff up your chest and express yourself rather than endlessly absorb pressure as a way of tiring out the opposition

I agree - Pakistan have issues playing out the last day of a Test match even with all wickets intact during the last day. We've lost 4 Test matches with a similar scenario in 2016 - Edgbaston, second Test vs NZ, MCG and SCG vs Australia.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Just working hard doesn't mean you'll become the top ranked.

If you think other tennis players work any less than Federer, you're deluded. In fact they could be working way harder yet can't reach this level.

There other factors involved. Belief, nerves, confidence, talent, application.

There's no logical argument to suggest Smith or Kohli work harder than other cricketer s and it's not true either.

First of all no one asks them to be top ranked.

You are missing the point.

No one wants every player to be like Federer. There is only one Kohli, there is only one Federer.

Do you really think all our players lack is just basic belief when for last 2-7 years the same sets of players have the same technical deficiencies?

Azhar can't up the scoring tempo and he hasn't found a solution for it for the last 2 years. So suddenly if he believes , he is really good, he will find a solution?

Akmal has been getting out to aerial shots for last 7 years? Do you think if he starts believing he is Viv Richards he will start playing like him because of his belief?

Now Kohli, Smith and Root may all be similar but they are not getting out to same mistakes or having same problems over the past 2-7 years. Which is why one can be better than the other based on how much talent they have.

Talent is essential for getting you somewhere. After that , it is all hard work to overcome your deficiencies.

I am sorry I don't buy the argument that people are limited in their ability to improve.

That is a defeatist attitude.

Blaming external factors for not getting there.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Not the same thing. You are not a professional sportsman

Rules are same for every profession.

The more you practice the less mistakes you made.

The first time you do a surgery, you are going to make some silly errors.

But when you have done it 50 times, they will be eradicated.

Once you have done it 500 times, you aren't going to be making errors. Now all surgeons who have done it 500 times might be different level (some might do it faster or with more finesse which is how players at top differ).

But if there is one surgeon who still can't tie knots after 500 surgeries, do you think it's a belief issue?

Or do you think perhaps he needs to work harder than others to get to where others are at?

 

[Pete Rose]

Rules are same for every profession.

The more you practice the less mistakes you made.

The first time you do a surgery, you are going to make some silly errors.

But when you have done it 50 times, they will be eradicated.

Once you have done it 500 times, you aren't going to be making errors. Now all surgeons who have done it 500 times might be different level (some might do it faster or with more finesse which is how players at top differ).

But if there is one surgeon who still can't tie knots after 500 surgeries, do you think it's a belief issue?

Or do you think perhaps he needs to work harder than others to get to where others are at?

as I said, 'if I work hard enough, I will win' is not a sole differentiator for successor. I don't fault you for thinking that. We are brought up to value hard work as the only true guarantee of success in life. But as I keep saying, it's a bit extremist to think of this as a binary choice. Either you work and succeed and your failure is down to your not working hard enough. Frankly there's plenty of literature out there that says this is wrong. a window cleaner works just as hard as a surgeon: doesn't mean both get the same payout

 

[Dr_Bassim]

as I said, 'if I work hard enough, I will win' is not a sole differentiator for successor. I don't fault you for thinking that. We are brought up to value hard work as the only true guarantee of success in life. But as I keep saying, it's a bit extremist to think of this as a binary choice. Either you work and succeed and your failure is down to your not working hard enough. Frankly there's plenty of literature out there that says this is wrong. a window cleaner works just as hard as a surgeon: doesn't mean both get the same payout

Comparing professions is always going to prove your point because at the end of the day they are different professions.

A window cleaner might have a low payout but may have low levels of stress and dissatisfied life compared to an ER doctor with a huge payout and suffering from burnout.

We are talking about cricketers at the same level, who keep making basic mistakes and can't learn what it takes to avoid those problems in 2-7 years of professional service.

But if you can't improve in 2 years even by an miniscule amount, either you are NOT working hard enough, or you are NOT WORKING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

Now clearly we are accepting they are working hard enough (according to most people who think they are).

Then we have to agree, they are not working in the right direction by which it means :they are not interested in improving their attitude towards the ODI game and are more interested in either status quo or just practicing in things they are already good at.

 

[Pete Rose]

Comparing professions is always going to prove your point because at the end of the day they are different professions.

A window cleaner might have a low payout but may have low levels of stress and dissatisfied life compared to an ER doctor with a huge payout and suffering from burnout.

We are talking about cricketers at the same level, who keep making basic mistakes and can't learn what it takes to avoid those problems in 2-7 years of professional service.

But if you can't improve in 2 years even by an miniscule amount, either you are NOT working hard enough, or you are NOT WORKING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

Now clearly we are accepting they are working hard enough (according to most people who think they are).

Then we have to agree, they are not working in the right direction by which it means :they are not interested in improving their attitude towards the ODI game and are more interested in either status quo or just practicing in things they are already good at.

I am Just using the profession analogy to point out that this theory that hard work alone is enough isn't really accurate. The latter part of your post makes a judgment call, which is I suppose logical. But I maintain the same, if everyone is working hard why is not translating in results. The easy answer to this is to say oh they are not that good, or not as good as they think, or just not working hard enough.

 

[Shafi]

No, lack of abilities. Look at Umar and Shehzad.Players like these will never get selected in top 7 teams but we keep giving these hack opportunities for ever.

 

[MMHS]

They are already superstar in their surroundings.

Harsh, but true - let me explain. I have several cricketers in my family/friends - who used to play club cricket in 80s/90s - most in regional clubs, some played in Dhaka league, 1/2 even in UK leagues. you couldn't even talk to them regarding cricket - one of them scored a blasting 70+ in a crucial Dhaka league match sometimes in late 80s and made sure that his teammates bring Viv Richards in it. And, that guy wasn't alone.

This continued untill 2000s, when BD started to play in big Rogers no. Now, those players could see how big the outer world was. I wasn't surprised to see the "mental transition" from BD players - those who thought that Aminul could average 55 in Test if given chance (no big at Bulbul, one of very few Bangladeshi down to earth cricketer, who knew his level because he played lots of league cricket in UK & AUS), started to realize that it's not so easy.

This would have been same in 70s/80s - had there not been 7/8 County players in that PAK dressing room who used to play 2 matches every week against the top of world cricket. Now, Sohail watched his team mate Fawad to average 58; and Ghar ka Kohli, not even that....

 

[Pete Rose]

No, lack of abilities. Look at Umar and Shehzad.Players like these will never get selected in top 7 teams but we keep giving these hack opportunities for ever.

It is difficult but you need to separate the individual from the approach. I don't claim that akmal or shehzad are superstars. Frankly my record is clear about what I think of them.
What I do think is that sometimes you need to build yourself up even when the results are not there. Because the results will come as long as you think big. If you think of success as a boring process of working hard in nets and then being humble and then whipping yourself everytime you fail that's your choice. If you step in to the ring out should be thinking how am I gonna bring down the biggest player in the opposition

 

[Ilan Bluestone]

But that's exactly the point. I believe the players don't back themselves, even privately. Jordan Lebron didn't talk about their greatness before they achieved, but they definitely talk a lot about how they never doubted themselves st the beginning of their career without claiming it to the world. See this thread not as a panacea to all that ails us. It is a part of solution for me

We cannot speak for players minds.

Any and every player who is successful in the end says I always believed in myself. If you go to any failure as well, they would probably say the same thing, problem obviously being that no one asks them as they did not achieve greatness.

The problem to me isn't wanting to be a superstar, because we have plenty who actually think they are superstars without really doing much, the problem is simply lack of talent, or again if they have the talent, the superstar mentality and nose in the air coming before they are even near that caliber. It is in a sense the Afridi effect. Do a few dazzling things and make it about the show, but then once people know your name, you are merely a figurehead and an actor, more so than a cricketer.

Currently obviously the only hope for a player to really reach that mantle is Azam, but again, I won't say anything here or there because I have seen too many look very good to start only to end up crumbling and their mouth spouting inconceivable nonsense.

Again, I understand your point is subjective, but I don't see it for every single player. If anything I think the lack of backing at the top from management and fear of the ax at any failure, or for a nepotistic choice to be above you is more of an issue. Backing yourself is great, but when you perform early on in your career, or have a hit and miss start as many players do, the pressure of being dropped comes quickly for Pakistan. Not saying those players would be something, but sometimes we over invest wrongly, or simply don't give players a fair shake either.

It's a multi-layered problem, of which your point could play true for some.

 

[Ilan Bluestone]

First of all no one asks them to be top ranked.

You are missing the point.

No one wants every player to be like Federer. There is only one Kohli, there is only one Federer.

Do you really think all our players lack is just basic belief when for last 2-7 years the same sets of players have the same technical deficiencies?

Azhar can't up the scoring tempo and he hasn't found a solution for it for the last 2 years. So suddenly if he believes , he is really good, he will find a solution?

Akmal has been getting out to aerial shots for last 7 years? Do you think if he starts believing he is Viv Richards he will start playing like him because of his belief?

Now Kohli, Smith and Root may all be similar but they are not getting out to same mistakes or having same problems over the past 2-7 years. Which is why one can be better than the other based on how much talent they have.

Talent is essential for getting you somewhere. After that , it is all hard work to overcome your deficiencies.

I am sorry I don't buy the argument that people are limited in their ability to improve.

That is a defeatist attitude.

Blaming external factors for not getting there.

Exactly, it's a two pronged issue.

1. Do you have the natural talent/ability/gifts, whether that be physical, ability for hand eye co-ordination, power, array of shots, mental toughness to read your opponents?

2. Are you willing to put in the work to overcome those deficiencies to become a class player?

Now some are so good at 1, that 2 can be defeated, but I cannot think of one great really who was also not one of the hardest working players in the game as well.

This goes for all sports.

Usually the best is also the hardest, or one of the hardest workers.

 

[Pete Rose]

People will think that this is a pro Umar Akmal thread whereas I have never really been a big supporter. But I do think it's time to have a couple of players in the team who overrate themselves. This is not a substitute for hardwork it's a complement to it.
Even in his brief innings today junior was not tied down by the idea that Malik should be given the strike to his half century. He wanted to hog all the glory himself.
And that's not a bad thing, sometimes

 

[Pete Rose]

Cometh the moment, come the stage fright.
which one of these guys will show spark