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Pakistan's next coach - Who are the contenders?

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Corridor of Uncertainty

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Mickey Arthur has done some good things for Pakistan. But I feel, based on recent results (Aus, NZ, SA Away and Asia Cup, NZ Home) that he has run his course.

The biggest weakness I see in Pakistani coaches is that after a couple of years, they become one of the boys. They accept failures too easily. They look for excuses all the time.

As a result, their teams become fearful - and lose key moments - game after game.

World Cup will most likely be Mickey's last event.

Who are the genuine contenders? Someone from PSL Pakistan can pick? A meticulous task master such as Dean Jones? A motivator such as Sammy? Or someone from the outside?
 
Dean Jones seems like a natural option. He has expressed interest in the past and has already worked with many of the contemporary players in PSL.

Apart from the Champions Trophy, the Arthur and Sarfaraz combo has been a flop. They have been particularly disastrous in the Test arena, and in the last 12 months, they have been humiliated in Limited Overs apart from picking up some cheap wins in T20Is.

Both need to go along with other freeloaders of the coaching staff like Flower etc.
 
Mamoon said:
Dean Jones seems like a natural option. He has expressed interest in the past and has already worked with many of the contemporary players in PSL.

Apart from the Champions Trophy, the Arthur and Sarfaraz combo has been a flop. They have been particularly disastrous in the Test arena, and in the last 12 months, they have been humiliated in Limited Overs apart from picking up some cheap wins in T20Is.

Both need to go along with other freeloaders of the coaching staff like Flower etc.
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Who should become ODI captain then? Babar?
 
Arthur can stay for a few more years he has a lot to offer, not fair to him he has a hack of a player and captain leading the country.

Sarfraz needs to go post World Cup, for good.
 
Mickey Arthur's performances have Detroit from past year or 2.Early exit from worldcup will be last roll of dice .

Dean jones is obvious contender who offers alot.His man management with pak youngsters in psl is impressive. He should be next coach with new batting coach grant flower is doing nothing
 
Mamoon said:
He seems like the only option. Best performer in the team and is in the right age bracket.
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Come to think of it - Imam would also be an option albeit a long shot.
 
msb314 said:
Come to think of it - Imam would also be an option albeit a long shot.
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Watching captaincy of imad and fakhar in psl make me realize that both are far from good captain. The only real option is babar and shadab both are yet to have any captaincy experience
 
saeed5646 said:
Watching captaincy of imad and fakhar in psl make me realize that both are far from good captain. The only real option is babar and shadab both are yet to have any captaincy experience
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Imad can be a decent captain but the fact that he is in and out of the team does not help matters at all.

Fakhar is a tullaybaaz and I fear that his days are numbered as well - especially once Mickey leaves.
 
msb314 said:
Imad can be a decent captain but the fact that he is in and out of the team does not help matters at all.

Fakhar is a tullaybaaz and I fear that his days are numbered as well - especially once Mickey leaves.
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Imad captaincy is good for t20s but not for odis.Shadab or hasan ali are mentally strong to lead pakistan in future
 
Mamoon said:
Dean Jones seems like a natural option. He has expressed interest in the past and has already worked with many of the contemporary players in PSL.

Apart from the Champions Trophy, the Arthur and Sarfaraz combo has been a flop. They have been particularly disastrous in the Test arena, and in the last 12 months, they have been humiliated in Limited Overs apart from picking up some cheap wins in T20Is.

Both need to go along with other freeloaders of the coaching staff like Flower etc.
Click to expand...

I agree. Unlike football, cricket doesn't have many top class coaches to choose from.

What about poaching Stuart Law?
 
LegendAli said:
Arthur can stay for a few more years he has a lot to offer, not fair to him he has a hack of a player and captain leading the country.

Sarfraz needs to go post World Cup, for good.
Click to expand...

I would have given you some points on this post but Arthur has been hopeless in PSL as well - not to mention his failed stint in Australia. He did well for Pakistan but peaked long ago.

Fact is: it's a results business and Pakistan has been on a downward spiral for very long.
 
Our next coach should be a proven batting coach and ideally we will recruit a good bowling coach as our bowling hasn't always been upto the mark.

Not sure of names other than Dean Jones who would jump at the chance.
 
I suspect Dean Jones will get it, he is desperate for it after all but I dont think it will work.

DJ i suspect will fall apart himself when things do wrong.
 
Pak head coach - Dean Jones
Pak batting coach - Mohammad Yousaf
Pak fast bowling coach - Waqar Younis
Pak fielding coach - Steve Rixon (if possible to get him again)
Pak wicket keeping coach - Atiq uz Zaman
 
I have serious doubts about Dean Jones and his long term performance as a coach. Its all good when you have 3-4 weeks with international players to help you out but Pakistan head coach is a highly politically influenced position. Mickey has been very good so far.
 
Mamoon said:
Dean Jones seems like a natural option. He has expressed interest in the past and has already worked with many of the contemporary players in PSL.

Apart from the Champions Trophy, the Arthur and Sarfaraz combo has been a flop. They have been particularly disastrous in the Test arena, and in the last 12 months, they have been humiliated in Limited Overs apart from picking up some cheap wins in T20Is.

Both need to go along with other freeloaders of the coaching staff like Flower etc.
Click to expand...

ABSOLUTELY AGREED! I had high hopes for Mickey, but they have been dashed and I believe a lot is down to the poison that resides in the management/ captain and his mates culture within the team.

I have such respect for SL team for the epic and monumental achievement and it is an indictment on not just this Pak team but every other Pak team that has toured SA - shame on them for not showing even 10% of the heart, guts and passion this SL TEAM has done!
 
More than Head Coach, PCT needs 4 qualified specialist coaches. In his short career as fielding Coach, Rixon actually has proved what subject matter experts can do. I feel Arthur's failure to take the team to next level isn't for his own limitation, rather his rigidity to stick with his support staffs. May be the structure IND is following now is way forward and BCB actually has changed their management structure as well. However, for both IND & BD one advantage is that both teams have a settled & capable Captain, but PAK team might go for a Captaincy change after WC - no way Sarfraz is going to remain Captain in 3 formats. Therefore, next PCB's HC has an added job of grooming next Captain as well - probably Babar in ODI & Shan in Test, while Sarfraz can stay as T20 Captain till next or next 2 WCs.

Going by the options, I do think Dean Jones can be a fantastic head coach, because he has been around PAK cricket for few years now, does know the culture there. I still am not sure after like 33 months if Arthur does know his team or adopted country (in terms of cricket) much. Besides, as I wrote for BD cricket that Arthur will be my last pick as HC for a team dominated by spin play either with bat or ball - something applicable for PCT as well as long as UAE is the adopted venue. Dean Jones as HC and PCB is allowing Arthur to be part of PSL, so DJ can do that as well and it's probably better for PCT considering respective squads/performance of IU & KK.

BUT, what PCB needs to sort is the specialist coaches - a qualified Level 3 batting coach from ENG or AUS is MUST. Best I have seen is probably Siddons, Andy Flower and Duncan Fletcher, but DF might be too old now and other 2 might not be interested. Add to that a fast bowling coach who actually knows few things of bowling mechanics and skills - ever since Azhar has taken over, I have read lots of hypes, and the day Faheem Ashraf takes 9 wickets @7/2.5 against ZIM reserves, PP goes through hype - but the last SAF tour by PAK & SRL should open some deluded eyes. May be again a foreigner is the way for fast bowling as well - Ian Pont comes to mind, and there are few really good bowling coaches available, like Heath Streak or Bond. if it has to be a local, I'll go for Kabir Khan.

Next is a spin bowling coach - instead of doosra, tishra, choutha .... what PCT needs is conventional spinners who actually turns the ball, can flight & loop it and has the bowling intelligence of getting a batsman out when he is trying to survive - these T20 spinners are not going to do much in middle overs of an ODI, least said about Test is better - SRL debutante took 8 wickets at Durban!!!!! So, no Saqline - they must pay whatever required to bring back Mushi ..... otherwise try to bring Herath, he'll do wonders with PAK spinners - Sunil Joshi has done great job with Miraz, Naeem & Taijul. Finally a fielding coach - Rixon left, Darren Maddy declined, therefore PCB's reputation isn't that great, but still they can find a top class fielding coach - there are few available. Not sure still available but Fontain, Penny, Mike Young, Woodward ....... can do the job, but one is required. In fact, I tend to believe Grant will do a better job as fielding coach than batting coach.

May be this is my dream set-up

Test Captain: Shan, Deputy - Babar
ODI Captain: Babar, Deputy - Shadab
T20 Captain: Sarfraz, Deputy - Babar

Head Coach (Team Director): Dean Jones
Assistant: Must be a local guy - I like the Peshawar guy (Some Mohammad)
Batting Coach: Jaime Siddons
Fast Bowling Coach: Heath Streak
Spin Bowling Coach: Mushi/Herath
Fielding Coach: J Fontain

CS: YK/Md. Wasim/Bazid Khan
 
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Dean Jones is someone who reads the game well and knows Pakistani players and has showed interest as well.
 
Corridor of Uncertainty said:
I agree. Unlike football, cricket doesn't have many top class coaches to choose from.

What about poaching Stuart Law?
Click to expand...

Stuart Law is a pretty decent option as well. The downside of Dean Jones is that some of his Islamabad United favourites might get a free ride.
 
Mohammad Wasim.

I am not sure on Dean Jones, its one thing to coach a franchise for 5 weeks (where most of the talent hunting thing is done by their MANAGER Hassan and co) and other team to coach a National team on full time basis.
 
Corridor of Uncertainty said:
I agree. Unlike football, cricket doesn't have many top class coaches to choose from.

What about poaching Stuart Law?
Click to expand...

Law is decent but Jones looks more involved and methodical with his methods. He has shown some good strategies and tactics which are the utmost need of PCT.
 
We need a Pakistani coach who will focus on test cricket. I think Javed Miandad should be the coach

Dean Jones is also a good shout, he understands Pakistan cricket.
 
MMHS said:
More than Head Coach, PCT needs 4 qualified specialist coaches. In his short career as fielding Coach, Rixon actually has proved what subject matter experts can do. I feel Arthur's failure to take the team to next level isn't for his own limitation, rather his rigidity to stick with his support staffs. May be the structure IND is following now is way forward and BCB actually has changed their management structure as well. However, for both IND & BD one advantage is that both teams have a settled & capable Captain, but PAK team might go for a Captaincy change after WC - no way Sarfraz is going to remain Captain in 3 formats. Therefore, next PCB's HC has an added job of grooming next Captain as well - probably Babar in ODI & Shan in Test, while Sarfraz can stay as T20 Captain till next or next 2 WCs.

Going by the options, I do think Dean Jones can be a fantastic head coach, because he has been around PAK cricket for few years now, does know the culture there. I still am not sure after like 33 months if Arthur does know his team or adopted country (in terms of cricket) much. Besides, as I wrote for BD cricket that Arthur will be my last pick as HC for a team dominated by spin play either with bat or ball - something applicable for PCT as well as long as UAE is the adopted venue. Dean Jones as HC and PCB is allowing Arthur to be part of PSL, so DJ can do that as well and it's probably better for PCT considering respective squads/performance of IU & KK.

BUT, what PCB needs to sort is the specialist coaches - a qualified Level 3 batting coach from ENG or AUS is MUST. Best I have seen is probably Siddons, Andy Flower and Duncan Fletcher, but DF might be too old now and other 2 might not be interested. Add to that a fast bowling coach who actually knows few things of bowling mechanics and skills - ever since Azhar has taken over, I have read lots of hypes, and the day Faheem Ashraf takes 9 wickets @7/2.5 against ZIM reserves, PP goes through hype - but the last SAF tour by PAK & SRL should open some deluded eyes. May be again a foreigner is the way for fast bowling as well - Ian Pont comes to mind, and there are few really good bowling coaches available, like Heath Streak or Bond. if it has to be a local, I'll go for Kabir Khan.

Next is a spin bowling coach - instead of doosra, tishra, choutha .... what PCT needs is conventional spinners who actually turns the ball, can flight & loop it and has the bowling intelligence of getting a batsman out when he is trying to survive - these T20 spinners are not going to do much in middle overs of an ODI, least said about Test is better - SRL debutante took 8 wickets at Durban!!!!! So, no Saqline - they must pay whatever required to bring back Mushi ..... otherwise try to bring Herath, he'll do wonders with PAK spinners - Sunil Joshi has done great job with Miraz, Naeem & Taijul. Finally a fielding coach - Rixon left, Darren Maddy declined, therefore PCB's reputation isn't that great, but still they can find a top class fielding coach - there are few available. Not sure still available but Fontain, Penny, Mike Young, Woodward ....... can do the job, but one is required. In fact, I tend to believe Grant will do a better job as fielding coach than batting coach.

May be this is my dream set-up

Test Captain: Shan, Deputy - Babar
ODI Captain: Babar, Deputy - Shadab
T20 Captain: Sarfraz, Deputy - Babar

Head Coach (Team Director): Dean Jones
Assistant: Must be a local guy - I like the Peshawar guy (Some Mohammad)
Batting Coach: Jaime Siddons
Fast Bowling Coach: Heath Streak
Spin Bowling Coach: Mushi/Herath
Fielding Coach: J Fontain

CS: YK/Md. Wasim/Bazid Khan
Click to expand...

This would be best option. But unfortunately PCB is blind, def and dumb to understand.
 
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MMHS said:
More than Head Coach, PCT needs 4 qualified specialist coaches. In his short career as fielding Coach, Rixon actually has proved what subject matter experts can do. I feel Arthur's failure to take the team to next level isn't for his own limitation, rather his rigidity to stick with his support staffs. May be the structure IND is following now is way forward and BCB actually has changed their management structure as well. However, for both IND & BD one advantage is that both teams have a settled & capable Captain, but PAK team might go for a Captaincy change after WC - no way Sarfraz is going to remain Captain in 3 formats. Therefore, next PCB's HC has an added job of grooming next Captain as well - probably Babar in ODI & Shan in Test, while Sarfraz can stay as T20 Captain till next or next 2 WCs.

Going by the options, I do think Dean Jones can be a fantastic head coach, because he has been around PAK cricket for few years now, does know the culture there. I still am not sure after like 33 months if Arthur does know his team or adopted country (in terms of cricket) much. Besides, as I wrote for BD cricket that Arthur will be my last pick as HC for a team dominated by spin play either with bat or ball - something applicable for PCT as well as long as UAE is the adopted venue. Dean Jones as HC and PCB is allowing Arthur to be part of PSL, so DJ can do that as well and it's probably better for PCT considering respective squads/performance of IU & KK.

BUT, what PCB needs to sort is the specialist coaches - a qualified Level 3 batting coach from ENG or AUS is MUST. Best I have seen is probably Siddons, Andy Flower and Duncan Fletcher, but DF might be too old now and other 2 might not be interested. Add to that a fast bowling coach who actually knows few things of bowling mechanics and skills - ever since Azhar has taken over, I have read lots of hypes, and the day Faheem Ashraf takes 9 wickets @7/2.5 against ZIM reserves, PP goes through hype - but the last SAF tour by PAK & SRL should open some deluded eyes. May be again a foreigner is the way for fast bowling as well - Ian Pont comes to mind, and there are few really good bowling coaches available, like Heath Streak or Bond. if it has to be a local, I'll go for Kabir Khan.

Next is a spin bowling coach - instead of doosra, tishra, choutha .... what PCT needs is conventional spinners who actually turns the ball, can flight & loop it and has the bowling intelligence of getting a batsman out when he is trying to survive - these T20 spinners are not going to do much in middle overs of an ODI, least said about Test is better - SRL debutante took 8 wickets at Durban!!!!! So, no Saqline - they must pay whatever required to bring back Mushi ..... otherwise try to bring Herath, he'll do wonders with PAK spinners - Sunil Joshi has done great job with Miraz, Naeem & Taijul. Finally a fielding coach - Rixon left, Darren Maddy declined, therefore PCB's reputation isn't that great, but still they can find a top class fielding coach - there are few available. Not sure still available but Fontain, Penny, Mike Young, Woodward ....... can do the job, but one is required. In fact, I tend to believe Grant will do a better job as fielding coach than batting coach.

May be this is my dream set-up

Test Captain: Shan, Deputy - Babar
ODI Captain: Babar, Deputy - Shadab
T20 Captain: Sarfraz, Deputy - Babar

Head Coach (Team Director): Dean Jones
Assistant: Must be a local guy - I like the Peshawar guy (Some Mohammad)
Batting Coach: Jaime Siddons
Fast Bowling Coach: Heath Streak
Spin Bowling Coach: Mushi/Herath
Fielding Coach: J Fontain

CS: YK/Md. Wasim/Bazid Khan
Click to expand...

Over the top reactions by people in this thread. Dean jones has never coached a team in his life and should be made head coach to fix all our problems.

What is everyone smoking these days?
 
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How many domestic and international teams has Dean Jones coached ? I like him but you shouldn't get an international coaching role on the basis of a franchise T20 tournament like PSL.

[MENTION=148759]HappyWarsFan[/MENTION] - Javed Miandad had at least three coaching stints before and they all ended in flames due to his nonexistent man management ability.
 
sshakir411 said:
Over the top reactions by people in this thread. Dean jones has never coached a team in his life and should be made head coach to fix all our problems.

What is everyone smoking these days?
Click to expand...

Shastri has never coached a team as well if I am right
 
Shadab needs to solidify his spot in the team before making him captain. He needs to decide whether he's a bowler or all rounder
 
MMHS said:
More than Head Coach, PCT needs 4 qualified specialist coaches. In his short career as fielding Coach, Rixon actually has proved what subject matter experts can do. I feel Arthur's failure to take the team to next level isn't for his own limitation, rather his rigidity to stick with his support staffs. May be the structure IND is following now is way forward and BCB actually has changed their management structure as well. However, for both IND & BD one advantage is that both teams have a settled & capable Captain, but PAK team might go for a Captaincy change after WC - no way Sarfraz is going to remain Captain in 3 formats. Therefore, next PCB's HC has an added job of grooming next Captain as well - probably Babar in ODI & Shan in Test, while Sarfraz can stay as T20 Captain till next or next 2 WCs.

Going by the options, I do think Dean Jones can be a fantastic head coach, because he has been around PAK cricket for few years now, does know the culture there. I still am not sure after like 33 months if Arthur does know his team or adopted country (in terms of cricket) much. Besides, as I wrote for BD cricket that Arthur will be my last pick as HC for a team dominated by spin play either with bat or ball - something applicable for PCT as well as long as UAE is the adopted venue. Dean Jones as HC and PCB is allowing Arthur to be part of PSL, so DJ can do that as well and it's probably better for PCT considering respective squads/performance of IU & KK.

BUT, what PCB needs to sort is the specialist coaches - a qualified Level 3 batting coach from ENG or AUS is MUST. Best I have seen is probably Siddons, Andy Flower and Duncan Fletcher, but DF might be too old now and other 2 might not be interested. Add to that a fast bowling coach who actually knows few things of bowling mechanics and skills - ever since Azhar has taken over, I have read lots of hypes, and the day Faheem Ashraf takes 9 wickets @7/2.5 against ZIM reserves, PP goes through hype - but the last SAF tour by PAK & SRL should open some deluded eyes. May be again a foreigner is the way for fast bowling as well - Ian Pont comes to mind, and there are few really good bowling coaches available, like Heath Streak or Bond. if it has to be a local, I'll go for Kabir Khan.

Next is a spin bowling coach - instead of doosra, tishra, choutha .... what PCT needs is conventional spinners who actually turns the ball, can flight & loop it and has the bowling intelligence of getting a batsman out when he is trying to survive - these T20 spinners are not going to do much in middle overs of an ODI, least said about Test is better - SRL debutante took 8 wickets at Durban!!!!! So, no Saqline - they must pay whatever required to bring back Mushi ..... otherwise try to bring Herath, he'll do wonders with PAK spinners - Sunil Joshi has done great job with Miraz, Naeem & Taijul. Finally a fielding coach - Rixon left, Darren Maddy declined, therefore PCB's reputation isn't that great, but still they can find a top class fielding coach - there are few available. Not sure still available but Fontain, Penny, Mike Young, Woodward ....... can do the job, but one is required. In fact, I tend to believe Grant will do a better job as fielding coach than batting coach.

May be this is my dream set-up

Test Captain: Shan, Deputy - Babar
ODI Captain: Babar, Deputy - Shadab
T20 Captain: Sarfraz, Deputy - Babar

Head Coach (Team Director): Dean Jones
Assistant: Must be a local guy - I like the Peshawar guy (Some Mohammad)
Batting Coach: Jaime Siddons
Fast Bowling Coach: Heath Streak
Spin Bowling Coach: Mushi/Herath
Fielding Coach: J Fontain

CS: YK/Md. Wasim/Bazid Khan
Click to expand...

This is some serious good insight.

Although I worry about 3 different captains in 3 formats with one captain being a player in another team. It works for many outfits but in Pakistan culture, it may just be too much for them to process.

Really, Pakistan needs to make some tough calls on the senior players. Cleansing will make way for clearer thinking.

And Arthur must go, that much is clear.
 
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Time to bring the ultimate street fighter, the man on a mission to make Pakistan great for the umpteenth time, the greatest of them all, the man who has daddy in his name, Javed Miandad.
 
Dean Jones is best choice. We also need to get rid of Sarfraz as well, he is either cheerleader or non planning manager. We need to get rid of this mentality of making seniors Captain for the sake of it.

I like choices presented by [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] ...

Shan for test, Babar in ODI and Shadab in T20 for Captain...

Shaun is tough one, since he just got into the team.

I am also sick of these cheerleader Captain’s Sarfraz, Imaad, why the hell these guys are Captain?? 👺👺👺
 
Coach should be Gary Kirsten or Andy Flower.
Batting coach should be Inzi.
Captain should be Babar Azam.
Chief Selector should be Bazid Khan.
 
The Head Coach role isn't about your experience only, rather it should be someone who understands the teams, country and it's players, so that he can build his tactics to fit around the players rather than other way round (that's fitting players into own tactics, which'll never work). Arthur has the best possible resume one can get - been HC of 2 No. 1 teams for 7+ years ... but I find him aloof in PAK team. Some of his calls are mind blowing and picks are confusing - it's not that he is a poor coach, rather he is carrying baggage of his past experience. To simplify it, he has managed SAF domestic teams, then SAF & AUS national teams and each of his teams are very similar in their philosophy, resources and tactics; quite successful as well. Mickey has carried that successful formula in PAK cricket and it's not working here. He did clean lots of trash from WY era which gave him some quick wins, but in the long run he is trying to play a SAfrican game with PCT, which is not going to work (reference - my first post on Arthur regrading few areas that he needs to focus to work with PCT).

I can give examples from other games as well - take Soccer. Top International teams hardly appoints foreign coaches because that doesn't go well with their philosophy and players' core strength. Top 10 soccer nations are Brazil, Germany, Italy, Argentina, France, Uruguay, Spain, England, Holland & Portugal - to my memory only once FA appointed SG Ericksson to a limited success (that Pom team was best in many generation - yet best they reach was WC/Euro QF; Southgate already has taken his team to SF of WC & Nation's Cup), others never appointed a foreigner. But, in Club soccer foreign coaches are doing fine, because they'll buy few key players from global market to fit into his system. In Basketball as well, NBA coaches play the power game with powerful forwards in the paint, while Euro coaches prefer periphery shots with all 5 sharp shooters in starting XI and Basketball players in two different continents are totally different - even 7'2" Pau or Mark Gasol are top 3 point shooters in NBA.

PAK doesn't gave the domestic resources yet to appoint a local HC - WY & Javed Miandad's experience should be enough for this, therefore next best option is to find someone who is close to the team, country, players and who has a close eye on domestic talents - find me anyone better than DJ in that respect, and I have suggested one Local as his assistant so that in few years time a local guy can be ready. Also, DJ has earned his Pro coaching badge from Centre of Excellence, Brisbane; therefore he is qualified enough.

The specialist coaches are sort of subject matter experts - you need lots of technical knowledge to deliver as a bowling, batting or fielding coach; probably Aquib Javed's expertise can give you some clue about experience & delivery :); therefore the specialist Coaches must be professionally qualified and they'll be working under the HC under a particular tactics, strategy with selected bunch of players. They need to know their job and work out with the set of players given to them - not to bother for finding talent or combination or on field tactics. In an office environment, the HC is the Project Manager who'll get things done my several subject matter experts - here specialist coaches. Large MNCs hire technically skilled pros from all over the world, but most cases their Managers are often qualified local people - Cricket management isn't any different.

Experience is the ultimate curse in PAK cricket - let's start to alter that. Lawson was a fantastic coach in making with his first main job (PCT), so was Hathura (BD) - let DJ get his experience from PCT, he'll learn his way out if the passion is there.
 
Mickey has become too insecure off late along with Inzi and Sarfaraz.

Hence they have been reluctant to make changes. I would have a word with Mickey and tell him dont worry about results. Build me a team.

Mickey has got to stay but he needs to be given confidence.

Inzi has got to go I am sorrry.
 
Steve Rixon is good enough to be a head coach himself.

Pakistan need to change the thinking process first , because on that depends the kind of changes they are making. Players and selectors both have to be accountable. Selection should be based on Merit and current form.
 
pakistanigoneaussie said:
I suspect Dean Jones will get it, he is desperate for it after all but I dont think it will work.

DJ i suspect will fall apart himself when things do wrong.
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High strung personality who will only exaggerate the peaks and troughs of the team. If I am not wrong he's not a part of too many set ups besides PSL and i thnk Afghanistan for a period. I know Islamabad has a fairly robust backroom and rather a moneyball way of managing talent, so I am not sure if Dean Jones is the right answer.
I dont think its time for Arthur to go, but he has been let down in the test team by the guys whom he trusted/carried: shafiq, azhar (more recently), aamir, sarfaraz. Similarly in the odi line up he has to contend with hafeez, malik, sarfaraz.
I hope Pakistan do well at the the world cup because it will give him one final shot at fixing the test team. for that to happen, nothing short of reaching the final will be enough to buy him time.
 
gazza619 said:
Mickey has become too insecure off late along with Inzi and Sarfaraz.

Hence they have been reluctant to make changes. I would have a word with Mickey and tell him dont worry about results. Build me a team.

Mickey has got to stay but he needs to be given confidence.

Inzi has got to go I am sorrry.
Click to expand...

Thats part and parcel of being involved with pakistan cricket - whatever the era the biggest problem selectors/coaches face is how to transition fading has-beens from the team while still deliver respectable enough results to hold on to their job.
after 92 it was about moving on from miandad
-- long era of matchfixing or infighting
after 2003 it was wasim/waqar/anwar etc
after 2007 it was inzi
2007 onwards, post inzi was total pandemonium: yousuf, shoaib akhtar
2011 afridi razzaq
2014 misbah, younis
and now we have to contend with hafeez, malik, and maybe sarfaraz
 
Pakistan has got a love affair with Aussies. Interesting that Australia has been doing a huge amount of soul searching recently about it's own cricket.
 
How do you rate Muhammad Akram as a bowling/assistant coach?
He looks very composed to me. I think he is part of some PSL franchise as well
 
Head coach followed by

3 specific coaches, batting, bowling, Fielding.
3 specific to format captains , lodi, t20, test
 
No one said VIV RICHARDS is unbelieveable. Quetta has done extremely well under his coaching and he is fit as well.
 
Pete Rose said:
High strung personality who will only exaggerate the peaks and troughs of the team. If I am not wrong he's not a part of too many set ups besides PSL and i thnk Afghanistan for a period. I know Islamabad has a fairly robust backroom and rather a moneyball way of managing talent, so I am not sure if Dean Jones is the right answer.
I dont think its time for Arthur to go, but he has been let down in the test team by the guys whom he trusted/carried: shafiq, azhar (more recently), aamir, sarfaraz. Similarly in the odi line up he has to contend with hafeez, malik, sarfaraz.
I hope Pakistan do well at the the world cup because it will give him one final shot at fixing the test team. for that to happen, nothing short of reaching the final will be enough to buy him time.
Click to expand...

I agree, I want Micky to stay. At least with you can see some long plan thinking rather than knee jerk selections. He is half way through a process, and that should continue. I dont think another coach for example would have held their nerve in selection Babar in tests.
 
Re Dean Jones, he's almost 58 years old and prior to 2016 he hadn't even coached a franchise side let alone an international one.

A good analyst/commentator doesn't always equal a good coach.
 
Gabbar Singh said:
Re Dean Jones, he's almost 58 years old and prior to 2016 he hadn't even coached a franchise side let alone an international one.

A good analyst/commentator doesn't always equal a good coach.
Click to expand...

Shastri had the same experience as Jones b4 he got the india job...
 
Personally feel that Mickey should stay on after the WC, and maybe step down next year after the T20 WC along with Safaraz as their T20 accomplishments merits a World cup.

After that it could be a few:

- Peter Moores. Did a good job with England with them winning a Test series in India.
- Michael Di Venuto. Current coach of Surrey, which have dominated the First class competition last season and was one of the reasons for the rise of Steve Smith and David Warner as he was batting coach for Australia (during the time when Mickey was head coach for Aus) before his current assignment.
- Steve Nixon. Current Leicestershire coach that led them to the T20 Blast champions 2018. He worked under Wasim Khan so will be no stranger to how Wasim works.
 
Having second thoughts about the whole coach thing.

Who has been Pakistan's most successful coach? I can't point to any who had a sustained great spell. Even Woolmer's last world cup was a disaster.

Pakistan has had the most success when it had a strong captain, who gave no quarters. Imran, Mushtaq, Kardar, Inzamam/Misbah for some time. coaches don't matter for the team.

All the more reason to focus all energies on finding that kind of leadership within the 11.

For the coach, Dean Jones will do just fine, with his motivational talks and smart tactics - as long as he has a good team leader in place.
 
Mamoon said:
Stuart Law is a pretty decent option as well. The downside of Dean Jones is that some of his Islamabad United favourites might get a free ride.
Click to expand...

I don’t think so. The amount of players that IU has given to pak is more compared to other teams. Without DJ they are still having 5 of their players part of pak t20 not to forget sharjeel makes it from IU and also Farhan makes it from IU.
 
Corridor of Uncertainty said:
Having second thoughts about the whole coach thing.

Who has been Pakistan's most successful coach? I can't point to any who had a sustained great spell. Even Woolmer's last world cup was a disaster.

Pakistan has had the most success when it had a strong captain, who gave no quarters. Imran, Mushtaq, Kardar, Inzamam/Misbah for some time. coaches don't matter for the team.

All the more reason to focus all energies on finding that kind of leadership within the 11.

For the coach, Dean Jones will do just fine, with his motivational talks and smart tactics - as long as he has a good team leader in place.
Click to expand...

He will put shadab as captain which is I’m fine with but his batting needs to improve a lot.
 
Corridor of Uncertainty said:
Having second thoughts about the whole coach thing.

Who has been Pakistan's most successful coach? I can't point to any who had a sustained great spell. Even Woolmer's last world cup was a disaster.

Pakistan has had the most success when it had a strong captain, who gave no quarters. Imran, Mushtaq, Kardar, Inzamam/Misbah for some time. coaches don't matter for the team.

All the more reason to focus all energies on finding that kind of leadership within the 11.

For the coach, Dean Jones will do just fine, with his motivational talks and smart tactics - as long as he has a good team leader in place.
Click to expand...

Most success and u put MISBAH in there lol. His test side yes partially why because they became 1st in the rankings but still struggled a lot outside ASIA especially in SA but I would still give it as no.1. Now almost every team play well at home and lose at away.
 
pakistanigoneaussie said:
I agree, I want Micky to stay. At least with you can see some long plan thinking rather than knee jerk selections. He is half way through a process, and that should continue. I dont think another coach for example would have held their nerve in selection Babar in tests.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Mickey should stay but the problem is can he stay till the next WC. If he fails in 2023 to be winners or runners then it’s time to say goodbye
 
ask_analyse_act said:
I don’t think so. The amount of players that IU has given to pak is more compared to other teams. Without DJ they are still having 5 of their players part of pak t20 not to forget sharjeel makes it from IU and also Farhan makes it from IU.
Click to expand...

The likes of Shadab and Faheem have been hyped to the moon but their performances have been very average. With Dean Joes at the helm, the golden boy treatment will probably continue.

I am personally skeptical because I don’t believe that he has the right temperament, but I do believe that he is the most likely candidate.
 
MMHS said:
More than Head Coach, PCT needs 4 qualified specialist coaches. In his short career as fielding Coach, Rixon actually has proved what subject matter experts can do. I feel Arthur's failure to take the team to next level isn't for his own limitation, rather his rigidity to stick with his support staffs. May be the structure IND is following now is way forward and BCB actually has changed their management structure as well. However, for both IND & BD one advantage is that both teams have a settled & capable Captain, but PAK team might go for a Captaincy change after WC - no way Sarfraz is going to remain Captain in 3 formats. Therefore, next PCB's HC has an added job of grooming next Captain as well - probably Babar in ODI & Shan in Test, while Sarfraz can stay as T20 Captain till next or next 2 WCs.

Going by the options, I do think Dean Jones can be a fantastic head coach, because he has been around PAK cricket for few years now, does know the culture there. I still am not sure after like 33 months if Arthur does know his team or adopted country (in terms of cricket) much. Besides, as I wrote for BD cricket that Arthur will be my last pick as HC for a team dominated by spin play either with bat or ball - something applicable for PCT as well as long as UAE is the adopted venue. Dean Jones as HC and PCB is allowing Arthur to be part of PSL, so DJ can do that as well and it's probably better for PCT considering respective squads/performance of IU & KK.

BUT, what PCB needs to sort is the specialist coaches - a qualified Level 3 batting coach from ENG or AUS is MUST. Best I have seen is probably Siddons, Andy Flower and Duncan Fletcher, but DF might be too old now and other 2 might not be interested. Add to that a fast bowling coach who actually knows few things of bowling mechanics and skills - ever since Azhar has taken over, I have read lots of hypes, and the day Faheem Ashraf takes 9 wickets @7/2.5 against ZIM reserves, PP goes through hype - but the last SAF tour by PAK & SRL should open some deluded eyes. May be again a foreigner is the way for fast bowling as well - Ian Pont comes to mind, and there are few really good bowling coaches available, like Heath Streak or Bond. if it has to be a local, I'll go for Kabir Khan.

Next is a spin bowling coach - instead of doosra, tishra, choutha .... what PCT needs is conventional spinners who actually turns the ball, can flight & loop it and has the bowling intelligence of getting a batsman out when he is trying to survive - these T20 spinners are not going to do much in middle overs of an ODI, least said about Test is better - SRL debutante took 8 wickets at Durban!!!!! So, no Saqline - they must pay whatever required to bring back Mushi ..... otherwise try to bring Herath, he'll do wonders with PAK spinners - Sunil Joshi has done great job with Miraz, Naeem & Taijul. Finally a fielding coach - Rixon left, Darren Maddy declined, therefore PCB's reputation isn't that great, but still they can find a top class fielding coach - there are few available. Not sure still available but Fontain, Penny, Mike Young, Woodward ....... can do the job, but one is required. In fact, I tend to believe Grant will do a better job as fielding coach than batting coach.

May be this is my dream set-up

Test Captain: Shan, Deputy - Babar
ODI Captain: Babar, Deputy - Shadab
T20 Captain: Sarfraz, Deputy - Babar

Head Coach (Team Director): Dean Jones
Assistant: Must be a local guy - I like the Peshawar guy (Some Mohammad)
Batting Coach: Jaime Siddons
Fast Bowling Coach: Heath Streak
Spin Bowling Coach: Mushi/Herath
Fielding Coach: J Fontain

CS: YK/Md. Wasim/Bazid Khan
Click to expand...


3 different captains didnt work for pak before, and it wasnt successful formula elsewhere..

Always been one captain across both formats has worked for many and all countries... All captains who has won the CWC so far has been the captains across both red and white ball even in this modern era which is also not an exception..

At max 2 different captains can be made with the advent of stress and pressure of playing and captaining three formats of the game, which is also what India trying recently to relax the workload of their captain Kohli..


Since the beginning when Sarfraz was made the test captain, i have said Azhar was the most deserving at that point of time with double and triple centuries to his name as an opener... MA has made biggest blunders in tests for pak, which is removing Azhar as opener, not giving him the test captaincy, playing one spinner in UAE...


Even now, I think Azhar is still the best choice to lead Pak in tests why because he has retired from ODIs so which will make him to concenterate on the only format he is responsible for.. He should go back to opening the innings along with Imam and let shan be number three and Haris be no.4

When it comes to coaches, since not many coaches are available to take the pak job. And also i feel MA can continue even after the CWC and be their till 2023 CWC.. If and when in between, there are poor performances from the team and MA looks clueless, then it is time to find new coach...

But for now there should be a change in bowling coach. Where i feel Akram from PZ should replace Azhar Mahmood... And for Grant flower the position needs to review after the CWC and needs to be changed highly likely.. For now since I cannot see a better option than Babar becomes an automatic selection in other formats, he will be my deputy on all formats..


Test Captain: Azhar ali, Deputy - Babar
ODI Captain: Sarfraz, Deputy - Babar
T20 Captain: Sarfraz, Deputy - Babar

Head Coach (Team Director): Mickey Arthur
Assistant: Does Mickey have one, I'm not sure, if there is then i would take Johan Botha as an assistant and fielding coach
Batting Coach: Julian Wood or Graham Thorpe or Graeme Hick (who is also an excellent slip fielder)
Fast Bowling Coach: Md. Akram
Spin Bowling Coach: Mushi/Herath
Fielding Coach: Johan Botha

If Mickey has to be sacked then my choices for the HC are Tom Moody, Jason Gillespie, Kirsten, Rixon
 
Sadozai said:
How do you rate Muhammad Akram as a bowling/assistant coach?
He looks very composed to me. I think he is part of some PSL franchise as well
Click to expand...

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]
 
ask_analyse_act said:
Most success and u put MISBAH in there lol. His test side yes partially why because they became 1st in the rankings but still struggled a lot outside ASIA especially in SA but I would still give it as no.1. Now almost every team play well at home and lose at away.
Click to expand...

Misbah had success at home while Sarfaraz is struggling. Could be many reasons - but it's a results game and he did what he had to do.
 
Corridor of Uncertainty said:
Misbah had success at home while Sarfaraz is struggling. Could be many reasons - but it's a results game and he did what he had to do.
Click to expand...

Well MISBAH played two spinners at home and sarfraz for reasons known to him not playing two spinners.. asghar was in the test side for many series but didn’t get a game. Same with USMAN and SAAD not tried more than 2 games
 
Sadozai said:
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]
Click to expand...

Don't think it's a good idea. He was appointed as Bowling coach in 2012, got sacked by half way, only for PCB to appoint him as Director NCA so that they don't need to pay out his contract. Since then, to my knowledge he hasn't been in any other coaching role outside PZ. He did play for Counties but I am not sure about his coaching credentials - I don't believe in this "knowledge & experience" based coaching mantra. Specialist coaches are subject matter experts, next PCB bowling (all 4 actually) coach should be someone technically qualified.
 
ask_analyse_act said:
3 different captains didnt work for pak before, and it wasnt successful formula elsewhere..

Always been one captain across both formats has worked for many and all countries... All captains who has won the CWC so far has been the captains across both red and white ball even in this modern era which is also not an exception..

At max 2 different captains can be made with the advent of stress and pressure of playing and captaining three formats of the game, which is also what India trying recently to relax the workload of their captain Kohli..


Since the beginning when Sarfraz was made the test captain, i have said Azhar was the most deserving at that point of time with double and triple centuries to his name as an opener... MA has made biggest blunders in tests for pak, which is removing Azhar as opener, not giving him the test captaincy, playing one spinner in UAE...


Even now, I think Azhar is still the best choice to lead Pak in tests why because he has retired from ODIs so which will make him to concenterate on the only format he is responsible for.. He should go back to opening the innings along with Imam and let shan be number three and Haris be no.4

When it comes to coaches, since not many coaches are available to take the pak job. And also i feel MA can continue even after the CWC and be their till 2023 CWC.. If and when in between, there are poor performances from the team and MA looks clueless, then it is time to find new coach...

But for now there should be a change in bowling coach. Where i feel Akram from PZ should replace Azhar Mahmood... And for Grant flower the position needs to review after the CWC and needs to be changed highly likely.. For now since I cannot see a better option than Babar becomes an automatic selection in other formats, he will be my deputy on all formats..


Test Captain: Azhar ali, Deputy - Babar
ODI Captain: Sarfraz, Deputy - Babar
T20 Captain: Sarfraz, Deputy - Babar

Head Coach (Team Director): Mickey Arthur
Assistant: Does Mickey have one, I'm not sure, if there is then i would take Johan Botha as an assistant and fielding coach
Batting Coach: Julian Wood or Graham Thorpe or Graeme Hick (who is also an excellent slip fielder)
Fast Bowling Coach: Md. Akram
Spin Bowling Coach: Mushi/Herath
Fielding Coach: Johan Botha

If Mickey has to be sacked then my choices for the HC are Tom Moody, Jason Gillespie, Kirsten, Rixon
Click to expand...

Azhar Ali - really? He might struggle to keep his Test spot come September, so making him Captain assures him 2-3 years pension - he'll definitely be a great boy Captain for PCB for sure. I had 3 captains for 3 teams, don't think reducing it to 2 changes much - either you find someone like Kohli, Will & Smith (or Shakib - he'll lead ODI team as well after WC) for 3 formats, otherwise better to go for best fit. In my list, may be they can make Babar test captain as well, doesn't matter much.

For the coaching staff, I don't think Arthur will retain his job unless PAK does really well in WC (say make the Finals at least) - in that case Mickey deserves to stay may be. But, I was more into PAK's Test team which is probably at it's lowest point since 1960s (don't bother about ranking - PAK isn't better Test team than SRL and will lose comfortably both series against BD, because PAK's home series will be played in UAE). Since MA has taken charge, only silver lining is 3-3 in ENG, otherwise else where result is shambolic: 4-2 against WIN is probably something remotely acceptable, though current WIN will blow PAK in their home. 0-2 & 1-2 against Kiwis, 0-3 & 1-0 against AUS, 0-2 against SRL and latest is this SAF tour. PAK should expect better return than this. The other options you mentioned - I doubt.

Moody was offered half a million $ by BCB, yet he didn't block himself for a year long job, Gary is working as BCB's consultant, which is another name of distant Director because he won't shift his family to Dhaka - don't see him doing that at Lahore either, Rixon is SRL's fielding coach after salty relation with PCB and he is 62+, not suggested. Jason might be ... but guy didn't manage Aussie job during their crisis

My previous post has the feedback on Mo Akram..... Personally, I believe in local coaches for bowling because bowling needs lots of mentoring while batting is more methodical, process oriented - still you need some basic technical knowledge to be an fast bowling coach of an International side. If it's Pakistani than probably best shot is Kabir Khan, but I would stick to a foreigner - Streak, Pont or Bond. Botha as fielding coach is fine.

Finally for batting coach - I like English batting coaches. They come with MCC Manuel & Text Book methods. May be English coaches are best for academy boys rather than National team. Hick is Aussie batting coach (not sure if still now), but frankly speaking I am not impressed with Aussie batting, very similar to Hick's career. On batting belters, GH was a monster, but bolted it under pressure. Thorpe can be excellent choice because he is probably the 2nd best Pom spin player since Compton & before KP, at least among top 3 with Gooch & Gatting, and PAK needs it's batsmen to be taught how to play spin by an Englishman ..... which should be a National shame, but that's PCT's deserved destiny I guess.
 
Mamoon said:
He was a total failure as bowling coach few years back.
Click to expand...


MMHS said:
Don't think it's a good idea. He was appointed as Bowling coach in 2012, got sacked by half way, only for PCB to appoint him as Director NCA so that they don't need to pay out his contract. Since then, to my knowledge he hasn't been in any other coaching role outside PZ. He did play for Counties but I am not sure about his coaching credentials - I don't believe in this "knowledge & experience" based coaching mantra. Specialist coaches are subject matter experts, next PCB bowling (all 4 actually) coach should be someone technically qualified.
Click to expand...

It wasn't in my knowledge.
 
Mamoon said:
He was a total failure as bowling coach few years back.
Click to expand...

no .. i think under him the bowling had some good performances and wins, if i remember but later in the twilight his coaching came under question for repeated failures of batsmen which put bowlers under pressure to defend totals under 200 every time...
 
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