Palestine decides to recall its Ambassador to Pakistan for sharing stage with Hafiz Saeed

[Pakistanian]

Please tell me what was the religion in Kashmir before muslim invaders came?

Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, and Shivaism but all of them converted to Islam in the 14th century.

 

[JackTR]

How does this guy gets support in Pakistan?

 

[Madplayer]

But they don't look Kashmiri. I've seen many here.

Hahah most of them do look Kashmiri. Yes variations are there like elsewhere.

 

[Madplayer]

Please tell me what was the religion in Kashmir before muslim invaders came?

Let me correct you. You probably mean Muslim saints and sufis.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, and Shivaism but all of them converted to Islam in the 14th century.

No all of them didnot convert. Despite the horrific acts of the of muslim rulers like Sikander Butshikan and co. Kashmir till this day has a sizeable non muslim community. Before the rise of terrorism it was over 40% its still close to 40% in J abd K.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Let me correct you. You probably mean Muslim saints and sufis.

Yea Sikander Butshikan was a muslim sufi saint.

 

[Pakistanian]

No all of them didnot convert. Despite the horrific acts of the of muslim rulers like Sikander Butshikan and co. Kashmir till this day has a sizeable non muslim community. Before the rise of terrorism it was over 40% its still close to 40% in J abd K.

A lot of muslims were driven out Kashmir by Hindus such as my ancestors. Hindu rulers in Kashmir have killed millions of kashmiris and forced thousands to migrate so all of this balances out. It's called Karma, a concept of Hinduism .

 

[KingKhanWC]

Why should India electing anyone get the Brits to change their mind about that person? If they truly believed that Modi was a killer, they could have still protested / created an embarrassing situation if they wanted. UK is a free society, right? After all, the civil society in UK isn't letting Trump visit (he's already canceled one trip). And, at least in theory, what Trump's done is a lot less heinous that what Modi is allegedly done (according to simpletons like you).

So, the question back to you is, why did UK as a society accord a grand welcome to Modi? (outside of 50 odd lunatics protesting). What prompted Cameron to show up at the Wembley arena when it wasn't even part of his original plan?

Or would you prefer to "lol" again?!

Who Indian people elect is no concern of yours. If he is hated by people like you more reason to elect him.

The so called ban was lifted in 2012 long before he became a PM candidate let alone PM. And anyways why will UK bother about who Indians elect?

Now go tell your govt to lift the sanctions on Hafiz Saeed.


The US The UN India EU UK everyone has declared Hafiz Saeed as a terrorist. Why dont you ask your country why it has declared him as a terrorist?

Modi was tipped as future PM when the ban was lifted. Many people in the UK still believe he has blood on his hands. Being Indian PM he was of course welcomed not as being a great person but only because he is the PM.

US and others also believed Iraq had WMDs.


Now CAN YOU show many any evidence HS was the mastermind of the Mumbai attacks? Surely India has some clear evidence it can show Pakistan or anyone else?

You both are struggling .

 

[cricketjoshila]

A lot of muslims were driven out Kashmir by Hindus such as my ancestors. Hindu rulers in Kashmir have killed millions of kashmiris and forced thousands to migrate so all of this balances out. It's called Karma, a concept of Hinduism .

Lot of things happened in 1947. If Hindus wanted to drive out muslims from Kashmir then Kashmir wouldnot be muslim majority still.

Regarding karma, its coming to haunt the supporters of terrorism.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Modi was tipped as future PM when the ban was lifted. Many people in the UK still believe he has blood on his hands. Being Indian PM he was of course welcomed not as being a great person but only because he is the PM.

US and others also believed Iraq had WMDs.


Now CAN YOU show many any evidence HS was the mastermind of the Mumbai attacks? Surely India has some clear evidence it can show Pakistan or anyone else?

You both are struggling .

Modi was not even PM candidate in 2012 let alone tipped to be PM in 2012. What you claim about people in UK may or may not be true, but what is true that UK laid the red carpet for Modi. Despite your whining Modi addressed 70k Indians in Wembley, who you said are afraid of Pakistanis.

India has shown the evidence to people who matter thats why HS is banned in every country. I you think there is no evidence question your govt why HS is banned in UK.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Modi was not even PM candidate in 2012 let alone tipped to be PM in 2012. What you claim about people in UK may or may not be true, but what is true that UK laid the red carpet for Modi. Despite your whining Modi addressed 70k Indians in Wembley, who you said are afraid of Pakistanis.

India has shown the evidence to people who matter thats why HS is banned in every country. I you think there is no evidence question your govt why HS is banned in UK.

Try reading the British news, they were aware even if you weren't. Let me show you an article from 2012.

Mr Modi, a Hindu nationalist who is tipped as a possible future prime minister, came to power in Gujarat shortly before the riots and is accused of doing little to prevent India's worst religious violence since independence.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...in-ends-10-year-boycott-of-Narendra-Modi.html


I dont think there is any evidence and you have shown none.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Try reading the British news, they were aware even if you weren't. Let me show you an article from 2012.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...in-ends-10-year-boycott-of-Narendra-Modi.html


I dont think there is any evidence and you have shown none.

Possible Future PM.Not PM in 2014. LOL. Try Again. It was only in 2013 that Modi was talked about as a PM candidate after he won a unprecedented 3rd term as Gujarat CM in Dec 2012. His so called ban was lifted before that.

Whether you think there is evidence or not hardly matters. The authorities of almost every country and the UN thinks there is enough evidence which is why he is a sanctioned terrorist.

 

[English August]

You both are struggling .

Your saying so doesn't mean a thing. You still haven't answered why UK went out of its way to welcome Modi with open arms. His being a PM candidate or even a PM shouldn't mean a thing if they truly believed that he had blood on his hands. Back in the day they didn't welcome Milosevic. They don't welcome Mugabe. They avoid him like a plague, so much so that they wouldn't let their cricket team play in Zimbabwe.

Heck, they aren't even welcoming Trump who is the president of the most powerful country on the planet. So it's clear that they avoid political contact with those who they find distasteful.

Instead they went out of their way to welcome Modi -- well beyond what they normally do to any other world leader.

Why? Don't bother answering if you're **struggling** to find a coherent answer. Hint: there isn't one!

Time to "LOL" perhaps?!

 

[KingKhanWC]

Possible Future PM.Not PM in 2014. LOL. Try Again. It was only in 2013 that Modi was talked about as a PM candidate after he won a unprecedented 3rd term as Gujarat CM in Dec 2012. His so called ban was lifted before that.

Whether you think there is evidence or not hardly matters. The authorities of almost every country and the UN thinks there is enough evidence which is why he is a sanctioned terrorist.

I wrote

"Modi was tipped as future PM when the ban was lifted."

You wrote

"Modi was not even PM candidate in 2012 let alone tipped to be PM in 2012"

The article I posted is from 2012 and confirms the view Modi was tipped for PM, which is what I stated. Accept you messed up joshilabhai

Thats fine, I didn't think you could provide even a shred of it.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Your saying so doesn't mean a thing. You still haven't answered why UK went out of its way to welcome Modi with open arms. His being a PM candidate or even a PM shouldn't mean a thing if they truly believed that he had blood on his hands. Back in the day they didn't welcome Milosevic. They don't welcome Mugabe. They avoid him like a plague, so much so that they wouldn't let their cricket team play in Zimbabwe.

Heck, they aren't even welcoming Trump who is the president of the most powerful country on the planet. So it's clear that they avoid political contact with those who they find distasteful.

Instead they went out of their way to welcome Modi -- well beyond what they normally do to any other world leader.

Why? Don't bother answering if you're **struggling** to find a coherent answer. Hint: there isn't one!

Time to "LOL" perhaps?!

Modi was PM of India, why else would they welcome him? Yes it's time for a lol.

Trump will also be welcomed , the British government has invited him on a state visit.

 

[English August]

Modi was PM of India, why else would they welcome him? Yes it's time for a lol.

Trump will also be welcomed , the British government has invited him on a state visit.

Your repeating the same thing doesn't answer the question. Mugabe is the head of state of Zimbabwe (has been for 35+ years). Why isn't he welcomed in the UK? You didn't answer my question.

Since you refuse to answer (or can't answer since there is really isn't a good answer that fits your narrative), here, let me do it for you.

Q. Why doesn't UK welcome Mugabe?
A. Because he's committed crimes against humanity.

Q. Why does UK roll out red carpet for Modi?
A. Modi is the leader of world's largest democracy with an impeccable record for governance. UK sees him as the right partner to have a dialog with.

Therefore there is no equivalence between Modi and Saeed.

See, quite simple.

You don't need to be a Zionist Einstein to figure out how wrong your narrative is. Hope this helps.

 

[Pakistanian]

Lot of things happened in 1947. If Hindus wanted to drive out muslims from Kashmir then Kashmir wouldnot be muslim majority still.

Regarding karma, its coming to haunt the supporters of terrorism.

This is long before 1947, you don't even know the history of Kashmir like most Indians. Hindus and Sikhs have been slaughtering Muslims since the 1700s. Muslims have been forced to leave their homes in Kashmir since then and continued until parition.

 

[MenInG]

https://www.dawn.com/news/1384890/jud-chief-asks-lhc-to-stop-govt-from-arresting-him

LAHORE: Jamaatud Dawa (JuD) chief Hafiz Mohammad Saeed has approached the Lahore High Court to avert his arrest allegedly at the behest of the United States and India.

In a petition filed through lawyer A.K. Dogar in the LHC on Tuesday, Mr Saeed said a delegation of the United Nations was due in the country on Friday (Jan 26) and the government intended to take an “adverse action” against him during the team’s stay.

The counsel for Hafiz Saeed said the petitioner was the founder/chairman of JuD and Falah-i-Insaniat Foundation (FIF) and he had set up 142 schools and three universities and was engaged in public welfare for a long time.

Mr Dogar stated that the Punjab government had recently detained the petitioner under the Maintenance of Public Order ordinance for 90 days, but a review board comprising judges of the high court had rejected the government’s application for extending Hafiz Saeed’s house arrest because it was unable to justify his detention.

The counsel alleged that the government had acted against the petitioner under pressure from the US and Indian lobbies, which “have made an unfounded assumption that Mr Saeed was somehow involved in the Mumbai attacks”.

Mr Dogar requested the court to restrain the federal government from acting in a manner not permitted by law and to direct it to respect fundamental rights of the petitioner under Article 9 of the Constitution.

The counsel sought the court’s directive for the government not to take any adverse action, including arrest of the petitioner, during the UN delegation’s presence.

 

[big_gamer007]

Your repeating the same thing doesn't answer the question. Mugabe is the head of state of Zimbabwe (has been for 35+ years). Why isn't he welcomed in the UK? You didn't answer my question.

Since you refuse to answer (or can't answer since there is really isn't a good answer that fits your narrative), here, let me do it for you.

Q. Why doesn't UK welcome Mugabe?
A. Because he's committed crimes against humanity.

Q. Why does UK roll out red carpet for Modi?
A. Modi is the leader of world's largest democracy with an impeccable record for governance. UK sees him as the right partner to have a dialog with.

Therefore there is no equivalence between Modi and Saeed.

See, quite simple.

You don't need to be a Zionist Einstein to figure out how wrong your narrative is. Hope this helps.

Modi was PM of India, why else would they welcome him? Yes it's time for a lol.

Trump will also be welcomed , the British government has invited him on a state visit.

Possible Future PM.Not PM in 2014. LOL. Try Again. It was only in 2013 that Modi was talked about as a PM candidate after he won a unprecedented 3rd term as Gujarat CM in Dec 2012. His so called ban was lifted before that.

Whether you think there is evidence or not hardly matters. The authorities of almost every country and the UN thinks there is enough evidence which is why he is a sanctioned terrorist.

So basically it seems UK government is scared of India and compromised on their morals and gave Modi a red carpet welcome when he became PM.. Pretty embarrassing to be living in a first world country when you bend over backwards to go alll guns blazing to please leader of a so called Third world country..

 

[cricketjoshila]

This is long before 1947, you don't even know the history of Kashmir like most Indians. Hindus and Sikhs have been slaughtering Muslims since the 1700s. Muslims have been forced to leave their homes in Kashmir since then and continued until parition.

Muslims massacred Hindus when they invaded Kashmir. Entire Kashmir was hindu for 1000s of years before muslim invaders came killed many, many left their homes while others converted. So it was muslim invaders who started the violence.

You called Kashmiri Pandits as non natives and you talk about others not knowing Kashmiri history.

 

[barah_admi]

For most Pakistanis, Palestine is a Islamic issue just like Kashmir for them is an Islamic issue. Otherwise they would have supported the Hindu Kashmiri Pandits too rather than just supporting the Muslims in the Valley.

Kahsmir is a very different issue but staying on topic, I agree, for Pakistanis and 99% of Muslims across the globe, Palestine is advertised as a Muslim cause but that is because people are ignorant of the facts and history. This is not to say one should not support the Palestinian cause, just that it is not based in religion.

 

[Varun]

Kahsmir is a very different issue but staying on topic, I agree, for Pakistanis and 99% of Muslims across the globe, Palestine is advertised as a Muslim cause but that is because people are ignorant of the facts and history. This is not to say one should not support the Palestinian cause, just that it is not based in religion.

My take on it is that the Palestinian issue gives Pakistanis a sense of belonging with Arab Muslims, for reasons best known to them.

 

[barah_admi]

My take on it is that the Palestinian issue gives Pakistanis a sense of belonging with Arab Muslims, for reasons best known to them.

This is a very typical response from a certain group of people who claim that Pakistanis just want to be Arab rather than Muslim. NOne of it is based on any truth or fact or historical evidence.

Plus, as I mentioned, Muslims in the UK, in Malaysia, in Indonesia, across AFrica, across Muslim sections of Europe etc etc all believe Palestine is a religious issue (which it is for the Jews). None of that has to do with wnating to be Arabs or close to Arabs and any of that malarkey. It is to do with the fact that elements of Palestine, Jerusalem in particular, are important to Muslims.

However, the modern 20th and now 21st century Palestinian movement is not founded in Islamic history and thought but in communism, in ethnic and financial freedom and social mobility, yet most people still equate it to Salahuddin (not Arab) and the Ottomons (not Arabs).

In fact, if one met Palestinians, they would see many of them are pretty far from Islam and quite westernised in their approach, clothing and relationships. It is not some bastion of conservative Islam.

However, like I said, we shouldn't stop supporting the Palestinian movement, or oppression anywhere else BUT we should not make it into a religious issue, which would stop Pakistan suffering these indignities from this unknown politicians and non-nations.

 

[Varun]

This is a very typical response from a certain group of people who claim that Pakistanis just want to be Arab rather than Muslim. NOne of it is based on any truth or fact or historical evidence.

Plus, as I mentioned, Muslims in the UK, in Malaysia, in Indonesia, across AFrica, across Muslim sections of Europe etc etc all believe Palestine is a religious issue (which it is for the Jews). None of that has to do with wnating to be Arabs or close to Arabs and any of that malarkey. It is to do with the fact that elements of Palestine, Jerusalem in particular, are important to Muslims.

However, the modern 20th and now 21st century Palestinian movement is not founded in Islamic history and thought but in communism, in ethnic and financial freedom and social mobility, yet most people still equate it to Salahuddin (not Arab) and the Ottomons (not Arabs).

In fact, if one met Palestinians, they would see many of them are pretty far from Islam and quite westernised in their approach, clothing and relationships. It is not some bastion of conservative Islam.

However, like I said, we shouldn't stop supporting the Palestinian movement, or oppression anywhere else BUT we should not make it into a religious issue, which would stop Pakistan suffering these indignities from this unknown politicians and non-nations.

Why don't we see the same wailing about Uyghur Muslims in China, or the Muslims butchered by the Boko Haram or al-Shadab? Why do these get the tier-II or III treatment?

 

[Slog]

My take on it is that the Palestinian issue gives Pakistanis a sense of belonging with Arab Muslims, for reasons best known to them.

Doesnt make sense. Despite what you read on indian forums most Pakistanis (of all strata) dont have any illusions of their being any relation

Pakistanis are aligned with Palestinians on these issues due to holy lands and Masjid-e-Aqsa

otherwise Yemen, Syria would have been as huge

if it was arabs they would have been

 

[barah_admi]

Why don't we see the same wailing about Uyghur Muslims in China, or the Muslims butchered by the Boko Haram or al-Shadab? Why do these get the tier-II or III treatment?

That's just not true. There are protests by Muslims about many different issues all around the Muslim and non Muslim world.

I was in Pakistan in 2014 when they protested against the BUrmese genocide and that was before it was a major, mainstream media story. I happened to be in Berlin in around 2011, when Muslim groups there mounted protests about Syria. I could go on. Just because you didn't see it, it doesn't mean it didnt happen.

I will add that Palestine is obviously a bigger media issue, and it goes back to my original point, it is backed by more than just Muslim groups and media.

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

A western degree is also 4 times the quality of a Desi degree.

Not necessarily.

You can't judge a person's skill set and hard work through the origin of their degree.

 

[Pakistanian]

Why don't we see the same wailing about Uyghur Muslims in China, or the Muslims butchered by the Boko Haram or al-Shadab? Why do these get the tier-II or III treatment?

I do kinda wish that Uighurs, Circassians, and Kashmiris got as much support from the Muslim world as the Palestinians.

 

[Pakistanian]

Doesnt make sense. Despite what you read on indian forums most Pakistanis (of all strata) dont have any illusions of their being any relation

Pakistanis are aligned with Palestinians on these issues due to holy lands and Masjid-e-Aqsa

otherwise Yemen, Syria would have been as huge

if it was arabs they would have been

[MENTION=132715]Varun[/MENTION] isn't aware that the palestine issue gets a lot of support from non Arabs and not just south asian muslims. In fact many Turks,Kurds, Blacks, Afghans, Indonesian and European Muslims are staunch supporters of the Palestinians. A lot of Indians race/caste obsessed and see everything through a racial lense.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Your repeating the same thing doesn't answer the question. Mugabe is the head of state of Zimbabwe (has been for 35+ years). Why isn't he welcomed in the UK? You didn't answer my question.

Since you refuse to answer (or can't answer since there is really isn't a good answer that fits your narrative), here, let me do it for you.

Q. Why doesn't UK welcome Mugabe?
A. Because he's committed crimes against humanity.

Q. Why does UK roll out red carpet for Modi?
A. Modi is the leader of world's largest democracy with an impeccable record for governance. UK sees him as the right partner to have a dialog with.

Therefore there is no equivalence between Modi and Saeed.

See, quite simple.

You don't need to be a Zionist Einstein to figure out how wrong your narrative is. Hope this helps.

There is no economic benefit of having close relations with Zimbabwe. UK only wants to make money from India, it has no other love for the nation or Modi. If Modi wasn't tipped to be the PM, he would be banned to this day.

I'm suprised you can't work this out all by yourself.

 

[Varun]

I do kinda wish that Uighurs, Circassians, and Kashmiris got as much support from the Muslim world as the Palestinians.

Why merely wish? Do something about it. You are the ones who kick up such a storm about Palestine, so you know just what to do: kick up the same storm about these other parts of the world.

Did you think I was going to take up the slack? I wouldn't even support the guy on the next street - couldn't care less.

 

[cricketjoshila]

There is no economic benefit of having close relations with Zimbabwe. UK only wants to make money from India, it has no other love for the nation or Modi. If Modi wasn't tipped to be the PM, he would be banned to this day.

I'm suprised you can't work this out all by yourself.

Modi was not tipped to be PM in 2012.

So UK's conscience is up for sale?

So i can say that Modi was banned as the then ruling dispensation in India wanted him banned.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Modi was not tipped to be PM in 2012.

So UK's conscience is up for sale?

So i can say that Modi was banned as the then ruling dispensation in India wanted him banned.

I've already posted the link(to an article in 2012) which stated he was tipped to be PM ?

 

[waqar goraya]

Modi was not tipped to be PM in 2012.

So UK's conscience is up for sale?

So i can say that Modi was banned as the then ruling dispensation in India wanted him banned.

https://www.ft.com/content/2a02939e-2eb7-11e2-9b98-00144feabdc0

https://tribune.com.pk/story/455084/britain-to-end-10-year-boycott-of-narendra-modi/

https://tribune.com.pk/story/452730/decade-on-from-riots-modi-eyes-indias-main-stage/

Two bottom stories are also covered by AFP.

 

[cricketjoshila]

https://www.ft.com/content/2a02939e-2eb7-11e2-9b98-00144feabdc0

https://tribune.com.pk/story/455084/britain-to-end-10-year-boycott-of-narendra-modi/

https://tribune.com.pk/story/452730/decade-on-from-riots-modi-eyes-indias-main-stage/

Two bottom stories are also covered by AFP.

Read the last article. Modi was only mentioned among possible PM candidates in BJP. Also read that the article states that he has been exonerated of all personal involvement allegations in riots.

Modi was far from being s confirmed PM candidate let alone be PM in 2012.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I've already posted the link(to an article in 2012) which stated he was tipped to be PM ?

"Possible future PM"

Thats hardly a confirmation. Even if it is.


So UK's conscience is up for sale?

So i can say that Modi was banned as the then ruling dispensation in India wanted him banned.

 

[English August]

There is no economic benefit of having close relations with Zimbabwe. UK only wants to make money from India, it has no other love for the nation or Modi. If Modi wasn't tipped to be the PM, he would be banned to this day.

I'm suprised you can't work this out all by yourself.

Chalo good, so now you've figured out for yourself that your narrative on this topic has come apart thoroughly. Better late than never.

You started off by drawing equivalence between Modi and Saeed. Look where you are now, acknowledging how great Modi was in 2012 -- anointing him the PM when even the Indians hadn't visualized him as the PM!

 

[waqar goraya]

Read the last article. Modi was only mentioned among possible PM candidates in BJP. Also read that the article states that he has been exonerated of all personal involvement allegations in riots.

Modi was far from being s confirmed PM candidate let alone be PM in 2012.

Modi was considered the favorite for the role of next PM in 2012 , as vindicated by these 3 separate reports by international media.
Of course elections were not held in 2012 that could confirm him as PM then and there for your satisfaction.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Chalo good, so now you've figured out for yourself that your narrative on this topic has come apart thoroughly. Better late than never.

You started off by drawing equivalence between Modi and Saeed. Look where you are now, acknowledging how great Modi was in 2012 -- anointing him the PM when even the Indians hadn't visualized him as the PM!

lol. I drew no equivalence , this is only in your mind. I made a simple point Modi too was banned, but I never suggested for a similar reason. I hope this settles you now.

 

[KingKhanWC]

"Possible future PM"

Thats hardly a confirmation. Even if it is.


So UK's conscience is up for sale?

So i can say that Modi was banned as the then ruling dispensation in India wanted him banned.

Do you not know the definition of 'tipped'?

Btw the link I provided the word tipped was actually used.