Peace with Pakistan will give India direct access to Central Asia: Imran Khan

[Firebat]

Pakistan wants peaceful, cooperative ties with India: PM Imran

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan has called on Asian countries to avoid a “great power rivalry” in the region and focus on economic cooperation, trade and investment.

Addressing the 26th International Conference on the Future of Asia in Japan via video link on Friday, Prime Minister Imran Khan warned that Asia “must not become a theatre of tensions induced from without or within".

“The differences and disputes in Asia require Asian solutions on the basis of Asian values and interests,” he added.

“The Asia-Pacific [region], including the Indian Ocean, should become a zone of peace, an area of expanding cooperation and prosperity, through strict adherence to the principles of the UN Charter and the Bandung Principles of Peaceful Coexistence.”

While he did not explicitly mention it, the premier was referring to the US-led Quadrilateral Security Dialogue group that includes Japan, Australia and India.

China views the alliance, known as the Quad, as a threat to itself and the region.

Stressing the need for greater global cooperation, PM Imran said China’s Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) provides “an important pathway” for “integration across the Asia-Pacific region and beyond.”

“The China-Pakistan Economic Corridor [CPEC] is a flagship project of the Belt and Road Initiative. It has generated economic activity, employment and will enhance bilateral and regional trade,” he said.

He added that Islamabad has invited all friendly countries to invest and benefit from the $64 billion megaproject, a network of roads, railways, and pipelines that aims to connect China’s strategically important northwestern Xinjiang region to the port of Gwadar in Balochistan province.

'Pakistan wants peaceful, cooperative relations with India'

He also reiterated Pakistan’s desire for peace and good relations with all regional countries, including its neighbouring country and rival, India.

“Pakistan wants peaceful and cooperative relations with all its neighbours, including India. But India must stop the human rights violations in Occupied Jammu and Kashmir and revisit the unilateral measures it took on August 5, 2019,” he said.

“It is essential that an enabling environment is created for dialogue to peacefully resolve the Jammu and Kashmir dispute in accordance with the UNSC resolutions and the wishes of the people of Kashmir.”

Read more: https://tribune.com.pk/story/2300970/pakistan-wants-peaceful-cooperative-ties-with-india-pm-imran

 

[MenInG]

Prime Minister Imran Khan said on Friday that Pakistan is ready to restart talks with India if Delhi provides a roadmap towards restoring the previous status of occupied Kashmir.

“If there is a roadmap, then, yes, we will talk,” the premier told Reuters at his official residence in Islamabad.

In 2019, India withdrew Indian-occupied Kashmir's autonomy in order to tighten its grip over the territory, sparking outrage in Pakistan, the downgrading of diplomatic ties and suspension of bilateral trade.

Previously, Prime Minister Imran and his government have held that India would have to first reverse its 2019 steps for any normalisation process to begin.

“Even if they give us a roadmap, that these are the steps that we will take to basically undo what they did, which is illegal, against international law and United Nations resolutions ... then that is acceptable,” Imran said.

India's external affairs ministry did not immediately respond to Reuters' request for comment.

Prime Minister Imran said he has always wanted a “civilised” and “open” relationship with India.

“It is common sense that if you want to reduce poverty in the subcontinent, the best way is to trade with each other,” he said, referring to the example of the European Union.

He said India had crossed a “red line” by revoking the autonomy of occupied Kashmir. “They have to come back for us to resume dialogue,” Imran said, adding, “at the moment there is no response from India.”

Prime Minister Imran had made similar remarks last week, saying Pakistan could not restart trade with India at the cost of the blood of Kashmiris spilt by India, and that any normalisation under the current circumstances would be a major "betrayal" to the people of the occupied region.

Earlier this year, Indian officials said the two governments had opened a backchannel of diplomacy aimed at a modest roadmap to normalising ties over the next several months.

DAWN

 

[cricketjoshila]

No Indian government will reverse the steps taken to water down article 370. They may write their political obituary as well.

 

[MenInG]

Prime Minister Imran Khan has said that peace in Afghanistan will give Pakistan access to the Central Asian countries.

Talking to a delegation of the Pak-Afghan Youth Forum in Islamabad on Thursday, Imran said that the future economic policies of Pakistan depended on peace in Afghanistan.

To a question, Imran said that Pakistan cannot be held "responsible" for the actions of the Taliban in the aftermath of US and its allies' ongoing withdrawal from Afghanistan, adding that his government is not a spokesperson for the militant group.

"What the Taliban are doing or aren't doing has nothing to do with us. We are not responsible, neither are we spokespersons for the Taliban."

PM Imran said that Pakistan had nothing to do with why 150,000 NATO troops did not succeed in Afghanistan. "It's exactly like what the Americans did in Vietnam. When they failed in Vietnam, they blamed insurgents from Cambodia or Laos."

He said that Pakistan was told at one point that the Taliban's main sanctuaries were in North Waziristan. "The kept pushing us to take action. Finally after four or five years, we took action [but] one million people were internally displaced [...] what difference did it make?"

He said that the Americans should have spoken to the Taliban from a position of strength. "When there were 150,000 NATO troops, that was the time to talk to [the Taliban]. How can they expect the Taliban to compromise when an exit date has been given and a few thousand troops are left?"

To another question, the prime minister said unfortunately, there is a misconception in Afghanistan, which is based on Indian propaganda, that Pakistan is controlled by military institutions.

He said that Pakistan has always desired peace with India, but it is India that does not want peace because it is at present under the influence of RSS ideology.

The premier said that not only are the Kashmiris being mistreated but Muslims and people of other faiths and minorities, too, are mistreated. Such actions are the main hurdles in the way of peace with India, he added.

Imran said that Pakistan’s efforts in Afghan peace process have been appreciated on the international forum and endorsed by US Special Representative Zalmay Khalilzad.

Imran Khan said that his foreign policy is based on his party’s 25-year-old manifesto, adding that he has a consistent view that there is no military solution to the Afghan conflict, which could only be resolved through political means.

Blaming Pakistan extremely unfair, PM tells Ghani

The prime minister maintained that being the party head for the last 15 years as well as being the head of government for the last three years, he had the same stance on Afghanistan, and military institutions are fully supportive of the government’s view.

He said Pakistan will neither hold any talks with India nor will accept Indian participation in the Afghan peace process till the August 5, 2019 action is reversed and the status of the Illegally Indian Occupied Kashmir is restored under which Kashmiris have the right of self-determination as per UN Resolutions.

He said that recent statements from Afghan leaders blaming Pakistan for the crisis are unfortunate because it is Pakistan that made efforts to convince the Taliban first for talks with the United States and then with the Afghan government.

To a question about the promotion of sports in Afghanistan, especially cricket, the premier said that no country in history, except Afghanistan, had achieved so much progress in a short period of time.

The position at which Afghanistan stood at the moment in cricket has been realized by other countries in 70 years, he remarked, adding that the main reason behind this success was Afghan refugees in Pakistan learning the game.

https://www.brecorder.com/news/4010...kistan-access-to-central-asian-states-says-pm

 

[PakLFC]

No peace means no access for India. It is India who keeps suffering in IoK, their soldiers are being killed here everyday. I say even if there is an agreement on Kashmir still there should be no access given to India to central Asia. They are being thrown out of Afghanistan as I speak. Expect India to cry again later on today.
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/rai...-terror-case-2499203?pfrom=home-ndtv_bigstory

 

[MenInG]

Senior officials from Pakistan, the United States, Russia and China will meet in Doha on August 11 as part of efforts to prevent Afghanistan from slipping into another civil war.

The meeting of the so-called “extended Troika” comes against the backdrop of the Afghan Taliban making rapid inroads in the war-ravaged country since the start of the US and Nato forces’ withdrawal and the lack of any headway in the intra-Afghan talks.

The special representatives of these four key players last met in April in Doha, Qatar, and previously also held unannounced sessions in what appeared to be an effort to develop regional consensus on the Afghan endgame.

Although the US has serious differences with China and Russia on many issues, Washington is now keen to take Beijing and Moscow onboard on the current Afghan situation.

Both Russia and China have criticized the US for “hasty withdrawal” and declared that Washington has failed to bring about peace in the war-torn country.

Pakistan also expressed similar views as Prime Minister Imran Khan recently blamed the US for leaving behind a mess in Afghanistan. Pakistan, Russia and China are increasingly worried that the renewed unrest in Afghanistan will be destabilizing for these three countries.

An Afghan Taliban delegation, which earlier this week visited China, was told by Beijing to make a clear break from the East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM), a UN designated terrorist outfit seeking an independent state for Chinese Muslims in Xinxiang.

Read Refugees struggle as Afghan crisis deepens

Pakistan, also concerned at the growing unrest in the neighbouring country, is pushing the Afghan Taliban to take action against the outlawed Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP).

The Foreign Office confirmed that Pakistan would attend the extended troika meeting in Doha.
“Pakistan considers Troika Plus an important forum to facilitate the Afghan Peace Process.

Pakistan has been participating in the format regularly,” Zahid Hafiz Chaudhri, foreign office spokesperson said in a statement.

“Pakistan looks forward to the Troika Plus meeting in Doha. The meeting will review the current situation in Afghanistan,” the spokesperson added. He said Pakistan would continue to support efforts to achieve a peaceful, stable and prosperous Afghanistan.

The extended Troika on the Afghan peaceful settlement will hold its next meeting in Doha in early August, Special Russian Presidential Representative for Afghanistan, Director of the Second Asian Department at Russia’s Foreign Ministry Zamir Kabulov told an online briefing on Thursday.

Russian Special envoy for Afghanistan Zamir Kabulov also confirmed the Doha meeting and said he was in contact with his US, Pakistani and Chinese counterparts on the issue.

US President Joe Biden announced on April 14 that he had made a decision to complete the operation in Afghanistan that has been the longest overseas military campaign in US history.

The situation in Afghanistan has started to deteriorate in the wake of the US decision as the Taliban are intensifying their offensive in many areas of the country.

The Taliban movement has claimed that it has gained control of about 85% of the country's territory, including the border regions with five countries — Iran, China, Pakistan, Tajikistan, and Turkmenistan.

Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said on Wednesday that the situation in Afghanistan was quickly degrading and had gone out of the authorities’ control.

 

[the Great Khan]

No peace means no access for India. It is India who keeps suffering in IoK, their soldiers are being killed here everyday. I say even if there is an agreement on Kashmir still there should be no access given to India to central Asia. They are being thrown out of Afghanistan as I speak. Expect India to cry again later on today.
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/rai...-terror-case-2499203?pfrom=home-ndtv_bigstory

We should ensure they become a sea locked country. Reliant heavily on sea lanes. We should ensure they never get access to any of the new trade routes via central Asia. Their regime doesn't deserve it.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

We should ensure they become a sea locked country. Reliant heavily on sea lanes. We should ensure they never get access to any of the new trade routes via central Asia. Their regime doesn't deserve it.

Their regime doesn't want it. I think they would rather pin their hopes on being conduits for western powers than share wealth with China or Pakistan.

 

[cricketjoshila]

We should ensure they become a sea locked country. Reliant heavily on sea lanes. We should ensure they never get access to any of the new trade routes via central Asia. Their regime doesn't deserve it.

Lol. As if things are in the hands of pakistan. The way pakistanis overestimate their capabilities is laughable.

The Chabahar port is going to be operating soon. With US negotiating with Iran, the sanctions will be gone. India doesn't need pakistan in any way. And thats how it should be.

 

[PakLFC]

Lol. As if things are in the hands of pakistan. The way pakistanis overestimate their capabilities is laughable.

The Chabahar port is going to be operating soon. With US negotiating with Iran, the sanctions will be gone. India doesn't need pakistan in any way. And thats how it should be.

Pak needs India even less. The Chabahar port will not be operating anytime soon big daddy so don't speak to early. Yes Afghanistan is soon gonna have the pro Pak Taliban in charge which is why India can't stop crying. IPak is not only gonna throw India out off Afghanistan but Iran as well, just wait and see.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Pak needs India even less. The Chabahar port will not be operating anytime soon big daddy so don't speak to early. Yes Afghanistan is soon gonna have the pro Pak Taliban in charge which is why India can't stop crying. IPak is not only gonna throw India out off Afghanistan but Iran as well, just wait and see.

A part of Chabahar port has been functional since 2017. India is already operating it.

Pakistan cannot do anything to stop India from using Iranian territory to Central Asia.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

A part of Chabahar port has been functional since 2017. India is already operating it.

Pakistan cannot do anything to stop India from using Iranian territory to Central Asia.

Taliban also has built ties with Iran, whereas India is getting in bed with Uncle Sam. I think Iranian trust in India is probably going to deteriorate in proportion to India's eager embrace of USA and Israel. I wouldn't count on either Russia or Iran too far into the future the way things are going.

 

[Napa]

No peace means no access for India. It is India who keeps suffering in IoK, their soldiers are being killed here everyday. I say even if there is an agreement on Kashmir still there should be no access given to India to central Asia. They are being thrown out of Afghanistan as I speak. Expect India to cry again later on today.
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/rai...-terror-case-2499203?pfrom=home-ndtv_bigstory

Only the delusional will believe India is dying to get access to the medieval dictatorships Tajikistan, Kyrgzystan, Kazakstan etc. Hard to believe, but Takijistan with a per cap GDP of $800 a year is even poorer than Pakistan!

 

[Napa]

We should ensure they become a sea locked country. Reliant heavily on sea lanes. We should ensure they never get access to any of the new trade routes via central Asia. Their regime doesn't deserve it.

"sea locked country"? You mean we will only have access to the US, Europe, Japan, Australia and Latin America? With no access to Tajikistan, Kyrgzystan and Kazakstan? India is doomed

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Only the delusional will believe India is dying to get access to the medieval dictatorships Tajikistan, Kyrgzystan, Kazakstan etc. Hard to believe, but Takijistan with a per cap GDP of $800 a year is even poorer than Pakistan!

Yes it is strange that there is such a fight over central Asia involving all the major powers in the world, yet none of them are showing their hand in Bengal, Mumbai or Sri Lanka.

 

[PakLFC]

A part of Chabahar port has been functional since 2017. India is already operating it.

Pakistan cannot do anything to stop India from using Iranian territory to Central Asia.

Of course we can just like we stopped you in Afghanistan we will ruin you in Iran as well. You were in Afghanistan for while then the ISI made India lick it's own spit. $3 billion flushed down the toilet with more to follow. Pak can always do a lot and will as well. Remember just some years back you were dreaming on conquering central Asia through Afghanistan now you are being kicked out of there. We will encircle and destroy you everywhere.

 

[PakLFC]

Only the delusional will believe India is dying to get access to the medieval dictatorships Tajikistan, Kyrgzystan, Kazakstan etc. Hard to believe, but Takijistan with a per cap GDP of $800 a year is even poorer than Pakistan!

It is the natural resources everyone in these countries wants to control. To the naked eye there is nothing in Afghanistan either yet the Americans have been sitting there for 20 years. Don't tell me they invaded Afghanistan to get Bin Laden! No, they invaded for it's resources and to keep an eye on China.

 

[ahsan17]

Only the delusional will believe India is dying to get access to the medieval dictatorships Tajikistan, Kyrgzystan, Kazakstan etc. Hard to believe, but Takijistan with a per cap GDP of $800 a year is even poorer than Pakistan!

You do realize GDP per capita is not a measure of wealth?

 

[Napa]

It is the natural resources everyone in these countries wants to control. To the naked eye there is nothing in Afghanistan either yet the Americans have been sitting there for 20 years. Don't tell me they invaded Afghanistan to get Bin Laden! No, they invaded for it's resources and to keep an eye on China.

Natural resources are 20th Century thinking. In the 21st Century it is about modern industries, not natural resources.

 

[Balthazar]

BJP needs Pakistan and Islam boogie to win votes here. Expect the same rhetorics in the next elections as well. They have nothing to gain with peace treaty with Pak.

 

[Muddaser]

A part of Chabahar port has been functional since 2017. India is already operating it.

Pakistan cannot do anything to stop India from using Iranian territory to Central Asia.

Chabahar is NOT functional as a deep sea port.

It isn't capable of carrying heavy cargo and neither does it have the deep sea operations yet for large ships.

You made one shipment of wheat in 2017 and that's it.

China has signed a 400 billion deal with Iran which includes access to Chabahar.

Keep living in your fantasy world.

 

[PakLFC]

Natural resources are 20th Century thinking. In the 21st Century it is about modern industries, not natural resources.

Your modern industries have limitations too. Things like gold, oil and gas will always be in great demand in every century.

 

[Napa]

Your modern industries have limitations too. Things like gold, oil and gas will always be in great demand in every century.

Some of the wealthiest countries like Japan, Switzerland and Singapore have no natural resources, whereas natural resources blessed South Africa is in a shambles.

Anyway, natural resources mostly benefit the country they belong to. India doesn’t need access to Central Asia through Pakistan to buy natural resources.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Natural resources are 20th Century thinking. In the 21st Century it is about modern industries, not natural resources.

Wow! Maybe we'll be able to drink digital water in the future then.

 

[PakLFC]

Some of the wealthiest countries like Japan, Switzerland and Singapore have no natural resources, whereas natural resources blessed South Africa is in a shambles.

Anyway, natural resources mostly benefit the country they belong to. India doesn’t need access to Central Asia through Pakistan to buy natural resources.

Who are you trying to kid? India is desperate to reach central Asia one way or another. This is why it has been sitting in Afghanistan for twenty years spending so heavily since then. When a country has such resources then others want too do business with them. Countries you mentioned have other industries, they have done well no doubt but that is not to undermine the importance of has, oil and such things. It is the political turmoil that holds countries back.

 

[Napa]

Who are you trying to kid? India is desperate to reach central Asia one way or another. This is why it has been sitting in Afghanistan for twenty years spending so heavily since then.

Don't be delusional. India has spent maybe $2 to $3 billion in Afghanistan which is a trifling amount compared to the trillion dollar spent by the US and India's forex reserves of $615 billion.

India's major challenge is reforming its laws so that the Western firms set up manufacturing in India like they have in China. Central Asia is way down in India's list of priorities, it is not of zero importance but there are many other more important things.

When a country has such resources then others want too do business with them. Countries you mentioned have other industries, they have done well no doubt but that is not to undermine the importance of has, oil and such things. It is the political turmoil that holds countries back.

If the Central Asians countries solve their political turmoil, then they will also advance enough economically to do trade with India without being stuck to particular land routes. This is the 21st Century, absence of land routes is not going to hold any advanced country back.

 

[Napa]

Wow! Maybe we'll be able to drink digital water in the future then.

Get back to me when the Central Asian countries are ready to import 100+ billion dollars of Indian water similar to the $100+ billion of Indian ITES/BPO imports by the West.

 

[PakLFC]

Don't be delusional. India has spent maybe $2 to $3 billion in Afghanistan which is a trifling amount compared to the trillion dollar spent by the US and India's forex reserves of $615 billion.

India's major challenge is reforming its laws so that the Western firms set up manufacturing in India like they have in China. Central Asia is way down in India's list of priorities, it is not of zero importance but there are many other more important things.



If the Central Asians countries solve their political turmoil, then they will also advance enough economically to do trade with India without being stuck to particular land routes. This is the 21st Century, absence of land routes is not going to hold any advanced country back.

Look bud India went to Afghanistan so to seek access to CA. I have heard their analysts admit themselves so don't know what world you live in. How much America has spent does not negate that whatsoever when they invaded the place. It is not news either that India is terrified of China, so what??

Starting a debate on if's and what's will never end. If Pakistan did this and that we'd be the most powerful country on earth then I woke up from my slumber. You do the same.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Chabahar is NOT functional as a deep sea port.

It isn't capable of carrying heavy cargo and neither does it have the deep sea operations yet for large ships.

You made one shipment of wheat in 2017 and that's it.

China has signed a 400 billion deal with Iran which includes access to Chabahar.

Keep living in your fantasy world.

It is functional and it will be Fully functional soon


India's deal with Iran is independent of China and Iran has said it many a times.

Pakistan can do nothing. It can only make noise, like it did when article 370 was thrown away.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Latest update:

The real victims are growing number of refugees suffering from this senseless violence.

 

[loves_cricket]

We are currently sea locked anyways and still managing over 300 billion usd worth of goods and as per latest figures published, we exported goods worth 38 billion usd in May
But with almost 12 km of new roads built per day, we rather like to increase our internal markets, thaan depending upon exports.

 

[Napa]

Look bud India went to Afghanistan so to seek access to CA. I have heard their analysts admit themselves so don't know what world you live in. How much America has spent does not negate that whatsoever when they invaded the place.

Land access to Central Asia with its poverty stricken medieval dictatorships doesn’t make the list of the top fifty international priorities for India. One can understand how delusional the idea that access to CA is important is, simply by looking at the world trade data.

The combined GDP of the 5 countries Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Turkmenistan is less than that of Bangladesh ($352 billion). Please keep your “land access” to these countries to yourself, it is very low on the list of India priorities.

It s not news either that India is terrified of China, so what?.

We have already kicked Huawei out of India. China has been taught a lesson and is therefore behaving itself.

No more replies.

 

[Babbar]

Long post as it was one topic i have researched:

The whole of Central Asia has GDP less than Gujarat and Maharashtra. It’s a relatively poor region run by megalomaniacs and autocrats with frequent coups..

India does not have happy memories of Central Asia. For thousands of years, invaders (called heroes in Pakistan) incl Mughals came from that region and have killed, raped and converted millions and looted immense wealth. In fact, one plausible reason why Hindus readily agreed to partition was the geostrategic buffer that Pakistan provides to India against Central Asia and Afghanistan. It has worked till date. So Pak location is indeed geostrategic but in a different way than it thinks.

Indian interest in Afghanistan is just a tactical ploy to keep Pakistan busy on its western border and region destabilised. Afghanistan can’t provide access to CA unless India regains Pakistan side of Kashmir. India spent a few billion dollars that will be a waste probably. But that’s Ok. It’s same as China investing 60+ billions in CPEC, most of it will never be recovered.

India has no love for Afghans who participating in all those raping and killing in the Indian subcontinent for hundreds of years.

Imran is trying to broker a bad deal to India and earn billions of dollars in transit rent. There’s nothing in it (or CPEC for that matter) for India.

India has huge border with China. If (big if) India wants, China and India can have trillions of dollars of trade. May be in future once China gets stabilised after a frothy growth in the last 20 years and India regains self-confidence, this will be a reality. Not today.

Till then, we can play occasional cricket and have minor skirmishes on borders. Life is good.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Get back to me when the Central Asian countries are ready to import 100+ billion dollars of Indian water similar to the $100+ billion of Indian ITES/BPO imports by the West.

Get back to me when India looks like Japan and not Bangladesh.

 

[Babbar]

Ah! Bangladesh is doing good. I hope it per capita GDP grows more than India, even when India grows at 7+% post covid for a decade. Then all BDs in India and even a few Indians can go there and work.

Probably then India can provide a strategic corridor to Pakistan to do business with Bangladesh.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Third world countries need to see GDP translated into lifestyle and living standards. This is why I compared to Japan. Balance sheets are all very nice, but we need sewers, plumbing, town planning, hygiene, underground cables etc. Otherwise to all intents and purposes might as well be living in Pakistan.

 

[street cricketer]

Not sure why some Indians have developed a sudden aversion towards Central asia. Admittedly they might be poor countries, but they're hardly the radical countries that you need a buffer state to protect from. Most of the central asian states are some of the least religious muslim states as a result of the communist influence and their time under the Soviet union, so I doubt the central asians have any specific animosity towards India or Indians. In fact, Bollywood is probably more popular in central asia than south india.

If anything, you'd probably find more fundamental hindus hating central asians on account of them being muslim than central asians hating Indians on account of them being hindus. Even if there might not necessarily be huge trade potential with those central asian states, there's no need to speak condescendingly or belittle them as they're largely peaceful states. Our people seriously need to stop history affecting the perception of the present day people, be it the current day muslims in India or central asian people. Who's next on the hate list, Mongolia because Mongolians raided us once?

 

[Babbar]

There’s no aversion towards Central Asia. They are just not that important right now for India. They were never important in the past either except when invaded this region.

Every salesman try to market their wares, however useless and bad they are, as a life-changing item to the prospective buyer. These salesmen get mad when buys shows indifference towards those items. Selling Central Asia is like trying to sell snake oil to India. Won’t work.

Pakistanis do have affinity towards Central Asia, as they share a few genes and ideology from the time when central Asians pillaged & raped this unfortunate region for centuries. But, building better relationship with closer, much bigger and faster growing BD is more important for India.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Natural resources are 20th Century thinking. In the 21st Century it is about modern industries, not natural resources.

This thinking explains why petrol prices in India are increasing lol.

 

[Napa]

Not sure why some Indians have developed a sudden aversion towards Central asia. Admittedly they might be poor countries, but they're hardly the radical countries that you need a buffer state to protect from.

This thread is not about the Central Asian countries, rather it is about IK’s delusional belief that Pakistan has something significant to offer to India by offering access to these countries.

In assessing the value of access to these countries obviously their economies will be discussed.

Also quite delusional is the idea that these countries will significantly expand India’s export markets. The export markets in the form of the US, Europe, Latin America etc. which are accessible by sea lanes is already there. What India needs is to reform its labor laws and improve its investing environment to make itself a more attractive destination for FDI. The current government is making progress on this front.

 

[Ashmal]

Long post as it was one topic i have researched:

The whole of Central Asia has GDP less than Gujarat and Maharashtra. It’s a relatively poor region run by megalomaniacs and autocrats with frequent coups..

India does not have happy memories of Central Asia. For thousands of years, invaders (called heroes in Pakistan) incl Mughals came from that region and have killed, raped and converted millions and looted immense wealth. In fact, one plausible reason why Hindus readily agreed to partition was the geostrategic buffer that Pakistan provides to India against Central Asia and Afghanistan. It has worked till date. So Pak location is indeed geostrategic but in a different way than it thinks.

Indian interest in Afghanistan is just a tactical ploy to keep Pakistan busy on its western border and region destabilised. Afghanistan can’t provide access to CA unless India regains Pakistan side of Kashmir. India spent a few billion dollars that will be a waste probably. But that’s Ok. It’s same as China investing 60+ billions in CPEC, most of it will never be recovered.

India has no love for Afghans who participating in all those raping and killing in the Indian subcontinent for hundreds of years.

Imran is trying to broker a bad deal to India and earn billions of dollars in transit rent. There’s nothing in it (or CPEC for that matter) for India.

India has huge border with China. If (big if) India wants, China and India can have trillions of dollars of trade. May be in future once China gets stabilised after a frothy growth in the last 20 years and India regains self-confidence, this will be a reality. Not today.

Till then, we can play occasional cricket and have minor skirmishes on borders. Life is good.

Even the British raided, killed and raped Indians....so why do Indians suck up to them and this selective outrage against Mughals and Muslim rulers.

Just accept that your animosity with Central Asia has more to do with their religion rather than history.

 

[the Great Khan]

Lol. As if things are in the hands of pakistan. The way pakistanis overestimate their capabilities is laughable.

The Chabahar port is going to be operating soon. With US negotiating with Iran, the sanctions will be gone. India doesn't need pakistan in any way. And thats how it should be.

Chabahar is a dead project and even if it becomes operational it will eventually become a cog in the OBOR. The Israelis will ensure Iran remains a pariah to the west.

With regards to us overestimating our capabilities, that has never ever happened because if it did we would be dead meat. This is a realistic objective that can be achieved if certain factors continue in our favour. Either way we are going to look to shut India out of all regional trade routes. You will have to rely on your sea lanes and the british can tell how precarious that can be in times of conflict.

 

[the Great Khan]

"sea locked country"? You mean we will only have access to the US, Europe, Japan, Australia and Latin America? With no access to Tajikistan, Kyrgzystan and Kazakstan? India is doomed

Do you know what that even means? of course not. You think bharat mata is going to last forever and youll always prance around with your puffy chests but anybody with half a brain knows geopolitics changes by the minute these days. Just look at China. Why are they spending billions on the OBOR are they stupid? or should they perhaps come to modi jee and ask him for lessons on international relations?

The malacca straight is a sea lane and a choke point. In times of conflict it will cause untild problems for China hence the need to look at connectivity via train and land. They have numerous train routes that can get goods to europe within days now. India has no access to said routes. It will soon have to rely on shipping alone. nd looking at the current situation everywhere they are becoming increasingly vulnerable to accidents, global warming, piracy and conflict.

Now some will say, yes but shipping is still cheaper. yes for now. but countries that aspire for a sustainable future consider all their options. The modi regime keeps closing all of its options..

 

[cricketjoshila]

as usual your infinite stupidity always lights up my day. Do you know what that even means? of course not. You think bharat mata is going to last forever and youll always prance around with your puffy chests but anybody with half a brain knows geopolitics changes by the minute these days. Just look at China. Why are they spending billions on the OBOR are they stupid? or should they perhaps come to modi jee and ask him for lessons on international relations?

The malacca straight is a sea lane and a choke point. In times of conflict it will cause untild problems for China hence the need to look at connectivity via train and land. They have numerous train routes that can get goods to europe within days now. India has no access to said routes. It will soon have to rely on shipping alone. nd looking at the current situation everywhere they are becoming increasingly vulnerable to accidents, global warming, piracy and conflict.

Now some will say, yes but shipping is still cheaper. yes for now. but countries that aspire for a sustainable future consider all their options. The modi regime keeps closing all of its options..

So conflict with which countries will cause china untold difficulties in malacca straits?

The world trades via sea routes.

How many G20 countries have joined bri?

Its mostly a debt trap for poor Asian and African countries. A means to earn interest for chinese banks, contract for chinese companies and employment for chinese labour.

Any option that includes pakistan is no option.

 

[PakLFC]

India wanted direct access to Central Asia no doubt about it. Now that they have been expelled it's natural to save face they have to deny it. India did not waste $$$billions for no reason or to befriend Karzai or Ghani.

 

[Babbar]

Oh Ok. India desperately needs access to Central Asia that Pakistan so generously wants to provide.

But India is idiot and fascist. It does not realise the value of a few natural resources that a starving, begging, dictator-led Jehadi central Asia has. India does not know what is good for India.

Only Imran Khan has the best interest of India in mind as he daily begs India to talk to Pakistan (and also begs Biden to talk to him) for access to the doomed CPEC and Central Asia else Pakistan has nothing else left to blackmail India/world with.

Totally understood.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Indians talking about starving beggars in central Asia is quite funny. Go watch the Avengers again pal, you will get a reality check for sure.

 

[PakLFC]

Jihadists in central Asia?? That's rich coming from people who have a Hindu nutcase in charge, he doesn't even have proper education! Same applies when Indians laugh at how poor other countries are When you point a finger at others three turn towards you.

It is actually India begging Pak to come to the table. IK has never mentioned having any talks with India for ages. Some days back in Tashkent it was an Indian reporter running after our PM to ask questions with his tongue out, our PM just walked away frim him in no time. Pak don't need to blackmail India when the Kashmiris are killing Indian soldiers in IoK. This is why India keeps crying and begging Pak to stop terrorism when in reality it is the Kashmiri insurgents giving them the runaround

 

[Napa]

Do you know what that even means? of course not. You think bharat mata is going to last forever and youll always prance around with your puffy chests but anybody with half a brain knows geopolitics changes by the minute these days. Just look at China. Why are they spending billions on the OBOR are they stupid? or should they perhaps come to modi jee and ask him for lessons on international relations?

The issues is whether India needs land routes to its external markets, not your blathering about "Bharat Mata".

The malacca straight is a sea lane and a choke point. In times of conflict it will cause untild problems for China hence the need to look at connectivity via train and land. They have numerous train routes that can get goods to europe within days now. India has no access to said routes. It will soon have to rely on shipping alone. nd looking at the current situation everywhere they are becoming increasingly vulnerable to accidents, global warming, piracy and conflict.

Now some will say, yes but shipping is still cheaper. yes for now. but countries that aspire for a sustainable future consider all their options. The modi regime keeps closing all of its options..

If the Malacca Strait (not straight!) is blocked due to a conflict, it will be a conflict with the US, in which case Chinese exports to Europe via rail will become redundant.

Modi isn't closing any options, India is in no need for land routes for its important external markets. If you have delusions that China is going to block Mumbai or Chennai ports then India will be in a state of war and will have more important issues to deal with rather than whether it is able to export auto ancillaries to Europe.

No replies to you unless I see something sensible.

 

[maverick85]

Don't be naive. Trade and energy corridor. The central Asian countries have a surplus of energy. India can use a steady piped supply of energy, since having it piped is the most cost effective mode of transport. Pakistan is energy starved, which is strange because it's surrounded by an energy rich neighborhood. So it would be good to have access to cheap energy from central Asia. India is one of those countries which cuts is own nose to spite the face especially with the BJP idiots in charge

 

[cricketjoshila]

Don't be naive. Trade and energy corridor. The central Asian countries have a surplus of energy. India can use a steady piped supply of energy, since having it piped is the most cost effective mode of transport. Pakistan is energy starved, which is strange because it's surrounded by an energy rich neighborhood. So it would be good to have access to cheap energy from central Asia. India is one of those countries which cuts is own nose to spite the face especially with the BJP idiots in charge

Any pipeline via Pakistan is not feasible for India. Any trade corridor via pakistan is not feasible for India.

There is no chance in hell that India would give pakistan this kind of strategic leverage where pakistan can affect India's energy security or trade routes.

 

[Napa]

Don't be naive. Trade and energy corridor. The central Asian countries have a surplus of energy. India can use a steady piped supply of energy, since having it piped is the most cost effective mode of transport. Pakistan is energy starved, which is strange because it's surrounded by an energy rich neighborhood. So it would be good to have access to cheap energy from central Asia. India is one of those countries which cuts is own nose to spite the face especially with the BJP idiots in charge

India is moving away from fossil fuels. Solar is the future, and it is already cost competitive with fossil.

2 of the world's 3 largest and 4 of the 10 largest solar farms are in India.

https://www.ysgsolar.com/blog/15-largest-solar-farms-world-2021-ysg-solar

 

[PakLFC]

Some years back Indian's were so happy to be sitting comfortably in Afghanistan waiting to reach Central Asia. Now that they are being kicked out we hear they never wanted to reach Central Asia and were just wasting $billions for fun in a country that does not even neighbour them. Interesting to see how opinions change like the weather as do circumstances

 

[Babbar]

Pakistan, of all the people, and its super smart and extra India-friendly PM is daily trying to convince India that energy corridor through Pakistan is the best thing India could do this century. LOL.

However, for every other project, it’s spewing venom against India.


If this corridor was actually beneficial to India, Pak Military would have hanged a PM for the second time in 50 years by now for suggesting this.

Thank you but no thank you!

 

[maverick85]

Pakistan, of all the people, and its super smart and extra India-friendly PM is daily trying to convince India that energy corridor through Pakistan is the best thing India could do this century. LOL.

However, for every other project, it’s spewing venom against India.


If this corridor was actually beneficial to India, Pak Military would have hanged a PM for the second time in 50 years by now for suggesting this.

Thank you but no thank you!

Connectivity is what IK is promoting. The idea of this route was floated at the beginning of the 2000's. 20 yrs of occupation and spoilers stunted it. The subcontinent would be in another situation if this infrastructure was built and used. China is helping to build the infrastructure whilst india is busy pouting and cutting its nose.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Connectivity is what IK is promoting. The idea of this route was floated at the beginning of the 2000's. 20 yrs of occupation and spoilers stunted it. The subcontinent would be in another situation if this infrastructure was built and used. China is helping to build the infrastructure whilst india is busy pouting and cutting its nose.

India doesn't need Chinese money, labour, companies, debt to build infrastructure.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

India doesn't need Chinese money, labour, companies, debt to build infrastructure.

Yes, you can tell by the pictures of Indian towns and cities, they don't need any help at all.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Yes, you can tell by the pictures of Indian towns and cities, they don't need any help at all.

No we dont. Keep it for pakistan's development.

 

[Lego20]

Yes, you can tell by the pictures of Indian towns and cities, they don't need any help at all.

Bookmark this thread. Will bump it up when Pakistan ends up parting some of its land/resources to China just like Sri Lanka had to with Hambantota. Cristian Fair describes CPEC as "Colonizing Pakistan to enrich China" and not without a precedence:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/world/asia/china-sri-lanka-port.html

 

[maverick85]

Bookmark this thread. Will bump it up when Pakistan ends up parting some of its land/resources to China just like Sri Lanka had to with Hambantota. Cristian Fair describes CPEC as "Colonizing Pakistan to enrich China" and not without a precedence:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/world/asia/china-sri-lanka-port.html

Lol Cristian Fair. She is not biased against Pakistan at all. Try again

 

[cricketjoshila]

Bookmark this thread. Will bump it up when Pakistan ends up parting some of its land/resources to China just like Sri Lanka had to with Hambantota. Cristian Fair describes CPEC as "Colonizing Pakistan to enrich China" and not without a precedence:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/world/asia/china-sri-lanka-port.html

Chinese banks will loan money and take interest.

Chinese company will take that loan money to execute the projects.

Chinese Labour will get hired and paid from that money.

The country will end up paying for costly loans, interest and a white elephant projects.

Its a relief we are not part of the BRI.

 

[PakLFC]

Indian does not need any money or relationships with anyone as long as they are in America's good books. Pak has been there and suffered from so called American friendship. If being dirt poor means pleasing the American's then India is happy as Larry. India is happy to be Pak and China's enemy to please the American's, good going.

After Pulwama attacks the Indian media was on about conquering Baluchistan then pacifying the Afghan government in Kabul. From there rule Afghanistan then go to Central Asia taking over that region as well. The Pakistanis, Chinese and Afghan Taliban would sit quietly letting them do this.

 

[Lego20]

Chinese banks will loan money and take interest.

Chinese company will take that loan money to execute the projects.

Chinese Labour will get hired and paid from that money.

The country will end up paying for costly loans, interest and a white elephant projects.

Its a relief we are not part of the BRI.

Add: China is the one that benefits the most from these roads! Not sure how they were able to sell this to Pakistan. Some folks in govt & military must have got some serious kick backs!

 

[maverick85]

Pakistan welcomes China's capability in infrastructure development.

 

[PakLFC]

India should be mending bridges with Pak and China instead of picking fights with both. In any war with China the American's will not be helping Bharat as they seem to think. They will be left high and dry at the mercy of the Chinese, Pak's even Afghan Taliban who together will own them like their daddy.

Any Indian analyst who makes such comments is attacked for being a traitor and what not. What most illogical Indian people want to hear is how India can defeat both China and Pak in a few days then become a superpower within a year. You can't reason with such irrational ways of thinking.

 

[the Great Khan]

The issues is whether India needs land routes to its external markets, not your blathering about "Bharat Mata".



If the Malacca Strait (not straight!) is blocked due to a conflict, it will be a conflict with the US, in which case Chinese exports to Europe via rail will become redundant.

Modi isn't closing any options, India is in no need for land routes for its important external markets. If you have delusions that China is going to block Mumbai or Chennai ports then India will be in a state of war and will have more important issues to deal with rather than whether it is able to export auto ancillaries to Europe.

No replies to you unless I see something sensible.

The arrogance just seeps through in your rants.

Firstly I'm not saying the strait will get blocked but there is a danger it can be blocked by "terrorists" "pirates" or "accidents". 60% of China's trade flows through it. With the heavy presence of the quad in the region it is a strategic problem for them hence the new silk road.

Secondly China is not going to block any Indian port. It doesn't need to. It will start to increase its presence in the Indian ocean and in the event of a limited conflict could easily disrupt sea lanes to India. The threat is there and India would need to ensure this could never happen.

Thirdly the majority of trade in volume is done between close neighbours. E.g Belgium and France Canada US etc. The EU was born out of connectivity and a realisation that closer trade ties would benefit their populace. Pakistan knows that this is a way to open up ground connectivity into new markets. If India is happy to ignore this area that's fine with us. It's a young populace mean age of 27 and plenty of consumers looking to buy and sell

Trade routes will always be important. You can build whatever yu want but if you can't sell it's not worth it. New markets are the key to the future. e.g Africa central Asia and even south America. ..

But don't worry you go your way we will go our way..

 

[PetroDollars]

Add: China is the one that benefits the most from these roads! Not sure how they were able to sell this to Pakistan. Some folks in govt & military must have got some serious kick backs!

kickbacks is how it works, china is just learning from the way IMF and the WB work.

 

[Lego20]

India should be mending bridges with Pak and China instead of picking fights with both. In any war with China the American's will not be helping Bharat as they seem to think. They will be left high and dry at the mercy of the Chinese, Pak's even Afghan Taliban who together will own them like their daddy.

Any Indian analyst who makes such comments is attacked for being a traitor and what not. What most illogical Indian people want to hear is how India can defeat both China and Pak in a few days then become a superpower within a year. You can't reason with such irrational ways of thinking.

Enough teeth to deter both unless both decide on a suicidal adventure which is actually probable atleast with Pakistan.

 

[OMB]

I wish the decision makers in India read this post and respond positively.
We obviously need to reduce our dependence upon sea- routes which are so costly and depend upon the dirt cheap railroads and highway transport and enter into multi billion dollar trade route with Central Asia and tap the Kazakhstan or Kyrgyzstan markets which may be a game changer for the Indian economy.
Wonder why India didn’t do any research into the cost of sea vs land transport over long distances. We can rest assure that now they will definitely consider the given advise and mend their ways.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The arrogance just seeps through in your rants.

Firstly I'm not saying the strait will get blocked but there is a danger it can be blocked by "terrorists" "pirates" or "accidents". 60% of China's trade flows through it. With the heavy presence of the quad in the region it is a strategic problem for them hence the new silk road.

Secondly China is not going to block any Indian port. It doesn't need to. It will start to increase its presence in the Indian ocean and in the event of a limited conflict could easily disrupt sea lanes to India. The threat is there and India would need to ensure this could never happen.

Thirdly the majority of trade in volume is done between close neighbours. E.g Belgium and France Canada US etc. The EU was born out of connectivity and a realisation that closer trade ties would benefit their populace. Pakistan knows that this is a way to open up ground connectivity into new markets. If India is happy to ignore this area that's fine with us. It's a young populace mean age of 27 and plenty of consumers looking to buy and sell

Trade routes will always be important. You can build whatever yu want but if you can't sell it's not worth it. New markets are the key to the future. e.g Africa central Asia and even south America. ..

But don't worry you go your way we will go our way..

If China can disrupt India's sea lanes, India can block the Straits of Malacca easily.

And while Chinese ships in the IOR will be 100s of km from their home, Indian ships will be only few kms from the Andaman base when blocking the malacca straits.

So the Chinese are not going to disrupt India's sea lanes because pakistanis want it.

Any alternative trade routes or energy source for India will be without pakistan. As de linking from pakistan in every way is the future.

Finally dont try to tell Indians what they need to do and how to do so. We have managed our trade and economy far better than pakistan's. Give advise to imran so that pakistan doesnt have to go to imf or others for bailouts.

 

[Napa]

I wish the decision makers in India read this post and respond positively.
We obviously need to reduce our dependence upon sea- routes which are so costly and depend upon the dirt cheap railroads and highway transport and enter into multi billion dollar trade route with Central Asia and tap the Kazakhstan or Kyrgyzstan markets which may be a game changer for the Indian economy.
Wonder why India didn’t do any research into the cost of sea vs land transport over long distances. We can rest assure that now they will definitely consider the given advise and mend their ways.

Goods transport by train is much more expensive than by ships.

though emissions would be more than halved again if it were moved by sea.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-38654176.amp

That is, you have to burn twice as much fuel to move cargo by rail compared to by ships.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I wish the decision makers in India read this post and respond positively.
We obviously need to reduce our dependence upon sea- routes which are so costly and depend upon the dirt cheap railroads and highway transport and enter into multi billion dollar trade route with Central Asia and tap the Kazakhstan or Kyrgyzstan markets which may be a game changer for the Indian economy.
Wonder why India didn’t do any research into the cost of sea vs land transport over long distances. We can rest assure that now they will definitely consider the given advise and mend their ways.

Ship routes are far cheaper than any land routes.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

If China can disrupt India's sea lanes, India can block the Straits of Malacca easily.

And while Chinese ships in the IOR will be 100s of km from their home, Indian ships will be only few kms from the Andaman base when blocking the malacca straits.

So the Chinese are not going to disrupt India's sea lanes because pakistanis want it.

Any alternative trade routes or energy source for India will be without pakistan. As de linking from pakistan in every way is the future.

Finally dont try to tell Indians what they need to do and how to do so. We have managed our trade and economy far better than pakistan's. Give advise to imran so that pakistan doesnt have to go to imf or others for bailouts.

If you don't want debate, then why are you on a discussion forum? Do you seriously believe that a Pakistan forum should only be used for spouting Indian propaganda? The whole point of these boards should be to present different viewpoints and you are coming here telling people to shut up and stop talking about India.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Bookmark this thread. Will bump it up when Pakistan ends up parting some of its land/resources to China just like Sri Lanka had to with Hambantota. Cristian Fair describes CPEC as "Colonizing Pakistan to enrich China" and not without a precedence:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/world/asia/china-sri-lanka-port.html

I bookmarked the youtube videos about how fantastic superpower India would be by 2020, but it still looks like Bangladesh.

 

[Lego20]

I bookmarked the youtube videos about how fantastic superpower India would be by 2020, but it still looks like Bangladesh.

I take that as compliment - it is still better than looking like Pakistan which is surviving on alms, bailouts and mortgaging its resources.

 

[PakLFC]

Enough teeth to deter both unless both decide on a suicidal adventure which is actually probable atleast with Pakistan.

No. I think Modi is killing India more then Khan is Pak.

 

[Hornbill]

Khaki chaddi's sponsors proposed this plan in 2014 but pakistani hybrid regime hadn't shown any interest now immu desperately need someone's help to repay Chinese loans

 

[ahsan17]

I take that as compliment - it is still better than looking like Pakistan which is surviving on alms, bailouts and mortgaging its resources.

While having a much larger percent of the population in poverty. Makes perfect sense.

 

[Lego20]

While having a much larger percent of the population in poverty. Makes perfect sense.

Yes - anything over begging or renting out country parts.

 

[ahsan17]

Yes - anything over begging or renting out country parts.

The "begging" largely affects the government, not the regular people.