People free to choose religion : Indian Supreme Court refuses to entertain petition on conversions

[Hornbill]

The Supreme Court on Friday said people are free to choose their own religion, even as it lashed out at a “very, very harmful kind” of “public interest” petition claiming there is mass religious conversion happening “by hook or by crook” across the country.

Instead, a Bench led by Justice Rohinton F. Nariman said people have a right under the Constitution to profess, practise and propagate religion.

“Why should a person above 18 years not choose his religion? What kind of a writ petition is this? We will impose heavy costs on you... Withdraw it or argue and risk the consequences,” Justice Nariman asked petitioner-advocate Ashwini Kumar Upadhyay.

Justice Nariman reminded Mr. Upadhyay of the fundamental right under Article 25 of the Constitution to freely profess, practise and propagate religion, subject to public order, morality and health. “Why do you think there is the word ‘propagate’?’” Justice Nariman asked the petitioner.

Religious conversion is being done through a “carrot-and-stick” approach, Mr. Uapdhyay had claimed in his petition.

Justice Nariman said every person is the final judge of their own choice of religion or who their life partner should be. Courts cannot sit in judgment of a person’s choice of religion or life partner.

Religious faith is a part of the fundamental right to privacy.

Justice Nariman reminded Mr. Upadhyay of the Constitution Bench judgment which upheld inviolability of the right to privacy, equating it with the rights to life, of dignity and liberty.

Mr. Upadhyay’s petition was dismissed as withdrawn. His pleas to approach the Law Commission or the High Court with the plea was not expressly allowed by the Bench.

The petition alleged that the court should direct the Centre and the States to control black magic, superstition and religious conversion being done through threats, intimidation or bribes.

“There is not even one district which is free of black magic, superstition and religious conversion... Incidents are reported every week throughout the country where conversion is done by intimidating, threatening, luring through gifts and monetary benefits,” the petition had alleged.

Further, the petition said the Centre and States were obligated under Article 46 to protect the SC/ST community from social injustice and other forms of exploitation.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/natio...se-religion-supreme-court/article34278898.ece

 

[PakLFC]

Are they?? As the non Brahmins how free they are to choose their religion in India. Actions speak louder then words.

 

[Itachi]

Are they?? As the non Brahmins how free they are to choose their religion in India. Actions speak louder then words.

I am a non brahmin who has chose not to follow any religion and I'm doing fine.

The family from my mother's side falls under backward class and they are also doing fine with jobs ranging from police, army, panchayat etc.

 

[guna]

It’s ridiculous to stop people from converting. It’s their personal choice.

I would want debates between various religions, groups and atheists to happen publicly and get to the truth. Like it used to happen in Ancient India.

 

[PakLFC]

I am a non brahmin who has chose not to follow any religion and I'm doing fine.

The family from my mother's side falls under backward class and they are also doing fine with jobs ranging from police, army, panchayat etc.

Not all non Brahmins will be treated poorly. It is mostly those from downtrodden communities. Everyone is fully aware of the caste system in Hinduism.

 

[Itachi]

Not all non Brahmins will be treated poorly. It is mostly those from downtrodden communities. Everyone is fully aware of the caste system in Hinduism.

You've lot to learn about India. What I do in these cases, I gather as much knowledge as possible and then visit the places in order to make any assumption of my own without relying on third party sources and verify with the contents that I've read.

Not every state in India is same. The social construct, demography, reception towards different castes are different across the states. That's why you can't say "India" is facing it since it's limited to across a few states only.

Similar to what happened to farmers protest. Only 3 states protested and the whole media is portraying it as "Indian" farmers protesting.

 

[syed abbas]

Excellent decision by Indian Supreme Court.Had the Supreme Court in Pakistan passed such a decision,people in our country would have blamed judges for blasphemy.Since the constitution of India is secular, minorities in India have always enjoyed a better status and will continue to do so than in Pakistan.Once again, Kudos to Indian Supreme Court!!!!

 

[RajBan]

Excellent decision by Indian Supreme Court.Had the Supreme Court in Pakistan passed such a decision,people in our country would have blamed judges for blasphemy.Since the constitution of India is secular, minorities in India have always enjoyed a better status and will continue to do so than in Pakistan.Once again, Kudos to Indian Supreme Court!!!!

Forget people on the streets. Some "educated" folks in this forum would have reacted very differently.

 

[syed abbas]

Forget people on the streets. Some "educated" folks in this forum would have reacted very differently.

True.These "educated" members are avoiding this thread.If the Supreme Court had given some objectionable decision,these posters would have rushed to prove that how Pakistan is a heaven for minorities and India is a hell for minorities.

 

[Kroll]

Perhaps the clause should extend to allow people to transport cattle freely without being killed and allow them to eat whatever they want.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Perhaps the clause should extend to allow people to transport cattle freely without being killed and allow them to eat whatever they want.

Perhaps pakistan should give non muslims equal rights before some Pakistanis go poking their nose everywhere. Not that it matters, because they are treated with the disdain when they do it.

 

[RajBan]

Perhaps the clause should extend to allow people to transport cattle freely without being killed and allow them to eat whatever they want.

I agree. That is definitely a concern in the Hindi heartland.

 

[Zaz]

Perhaps pakistan should give non muslims equal rights before some Pakistanis go poking their nose everywhere. Not that it matters, because they are treated with the disdain when they do it.

Non muslims do have equal rights in pakistan

Where in the constituition does it say otherwise?

 

[Itachi]

Non muslims do have equal rights in pakistan

Where in the constituition does it say otherwise?

PART III, chapter 1, Article 41 of Pakistan constitution.

 

[Kroll]

PART III, chapter 1, Article 41 of Pakistan constitution.

Pakistan Constitution:
Part II: Fundamental Rights and Principles of Policy
Chapter 1: Fundamental Rights

Article 20 Freedom to profess religion and to manage religious institutions.
Subject to law, public order and morality:-
(a) every citizen shall have the right to profess, practice and propagate his religion; and
(b) every religious denomination and every sect thereof shall have the right to establish, maintain and manage its religious institutions.

Article 25 Equality of citizens.
(1) All citizens are equal before law and are entitled to equal protection of law.

(2) There shall be no discrimination on the basis of sex.

(3) Nothing in this Article shall prevent the State from making any special provision for the protection of women and children

Article 27. Safeguard against discrimination in services.
(1) No citizen otherwise qualified for appointment in the service of Pakistan shall be discriminated against in respect of any such appointment on the ground only of race, religion, caste, sex, residence or place of birth:
Provided that, for a period not exceeding [forty] years from the commencing day, posts may be reserved for persons belonging to any class or area to secure their adequate representation in the service of Pakistan:
Provided further that, in the interest of the said service, specified posts or services may be reserved for members of either sex if such posts or services entail the performance of duties and functions which cannot be adequately performed by members of the other sex.
[Provided also that under-representation of any class or area in the service of Pakistan may be redressed in such manner as may be determined by an Act of Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament).

 

[Itachi]

[MENTION=143714]Kroll[/MENTION]

File a petition to change article 41 then....

Oh wait, its been already tried and was rejected by the parliament.

Non muslims don't have equal right, right from the constitution itself.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I am a non brahmin who has chose not to follow any religion and I'm doing fine.

The family from my mother's side falls under backward class and they are also doing fine with jobs ranging from police, army, panchayat etc.

I think the majority of modern Hindu athiests are from backwards classes. Not sure why. Perhaps upper class are too privileged to want to leave the faith.

 

[Kroll]

[MENTION=143714]Kroll[/MENTION]

File a petition to change article 41 then....

Oh wait, its been already tried and was rejected by the parliament.

Non muslims don't have equal right, right from the constitution itself.

41's about the right to become the President of Pakistan. Even the monarch of the UK needs to be a Protestant. Does that mean non-Protestants don't have equal rights in the UK?

 

[Mamoon]

Non muslims do have equal rights in pakistan

Where in the constituition does it say otherwise?

A non-Muslim cannot become the Prime Minister or President of Pakistan.

Looks you do not understand what equality means.

 

[IndoorCricket]

41's about the right to become the President of Pakistan. Even the monarch of the UK needs to be a Protestant. Does that mean non-Protestants don't have equal rights in the UK?

Equal rights should include right to become a president too like India does.

 

[Tubs]

Constitutionally, India is pretty good for religious freedom. But the majority of the people are un/under-educated and backwards (yes, same for Pakistan) which is the issue.

And those suggesting that non-Muslims have equal rights in Pakistan, [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] has already pointed out the obvious, but Ahmadis aren't even allowed to call themselves Muslim, by law. That enough should show how everyone being the claim that everyone is equal under the law is bogus.

 

[Kroll]

As the deflectors have resorted to whataboutery. I'd just just like to point out violence isn't an issue when it comes to PM/President of Pakistan.

On the other hand, stories of forced conversions, eating beef deliberately to antagonise other communities are concocted as an excuse to unleash violence on minorities in India.

India has become a hate filled cesspit since the BJP came to power.

 

[Itachi]

I think the majority of modern Hindu athiests are from backwards classes. Not sure why. Perhaps upper class are too privileged to want to leave the faith.

I am non - brahmin but from upper class from my fathers side.

 

[Itachi]

As the deflectors have resorted to whataboutery. I'd just just like to point out violence isn't an issue when it comes to PM/President of Pakistan.

On the other hand, stories of forced conversions, eating beef deliberately to antagonise other communities are concocted as an excuse to unleash violence on minorities in India.

India has become a hate filled cesspit since the BJP came to power.

No one except you have been deflecting from the issue.

One asked, which clause in Pakistan constitution points no non equality and I pointed to article 41.

If you want to discuss more about article 41, then I can proceed.

Else, you are just wasting time of your and mine.

 

[Itachi]

Constitutionally, India is pretty good for religious freedom. But the majority of the people are un/under-educated and backwards (yes, same for Pakistan) which is the issue.

And those suggesting that non-Muslims have equal rights in Pakistan, [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] has already pointed out the obvious, but Ahmadis aren't even allowed to call themselves Muslim, by law. That enough should show how everyone being the claim that everyone is equal under the law is bogus.

With India, the caste issue is localized (state to state it varies) but not instituionalized.

In case of Pakistan, it is written right in the constitution which will be used from time to time as we have seen rejection in the bill for amendment of article 41 by the parliament.

 

[IndoorCricket]

I think caste system will dwindle away as more and more people move to upper middle class.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I think the majority of modern Hindu athiests are from backwards classes. Not sure why. Perhaps upper class are too privileged to want to leave the faith.

You think wrong. Modi is from a backward class.

 

[CricketCartoons]

A non-Muslim cannot become the Prime Minister or President of Pakistan.

Looks you do not understand what equality means.

He is right. He said all non muslims have equal rights.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Perhaps pakistan should give non muslims equal rights before some Pakistanis go poking their nose everywhere. Not that it matters, because they are treated with the disdain when they do it.

Why are you so insecure lol? He didn't say anything wrong. Also Pakistan has nothing to do with this thread.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Minorities should have all the freedom to practice their religion, but should not be allowed to propagate it. It harms the social fabric of the country.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

You think wrong. Modi is from a backward class.

Modi isnt an athiest. I meant the majority of people ditching hindusim seem to be from backwards castes.

 

[Local.Dada]

Non muslims do have equal rights in pakistan

Where in the constituition does it say otherwise?

Can they be prime minister or president?

 

[Local.Dada]

Modi isnt an athiest. I meant the majority of people ditching hindusim seem to be from backwards castes.

That’s because missionaries are an active branch of most Abrahamic or modern religions be it Islam,Christianity or modern religions like Scientology etc.

Hindus don’t have such active missionaries.

So backward classes or poor classes are easy target.

Sure there are cases of people genuinely adopting a religion for belief but that is may be 1 out of a 1000 cases.

Now don’t confuse this with Ghar Wapsi. If someone’s ancestors are Hindus then there is a way for them to come back into the fold. That’s what ghar wapsi is. There is no coercion with present life of after life goodies.

Modi is actually an atheist. Most RSS guys are. They are not too hung up on religion. It is not a religious organization, it is a nationalistic organization.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Modi isnt an athiest. I meant the majority of people ditching hindusim seem to be from backwards castes.

Any source for this?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Any source for this?

Just my humble observation based on online interactions. Most people who claim to be atheists are from backwards castes.

Honourable upper castes I think tend to apostesize less. Again this is just a humble observation based on online interactions and may be far off the mark.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Modi isnt an athiest. I meant the majority of people ditching hindusim seem to be from backwards castes.

No. Most are poor people who get paid to convert.

 

[PakLFC]

You've lot to learn about India. What I do in these cases, I gather as much knowledge as possible and then visit the places in order to make any assumption of my own without relying on third party sources and verify with the contents that I've read.

Not every state in India is same. The social construct, demography, reception towards different castes are different across the states. That's why you can't say "India" is facing it since it's limited to across a few states only.

Similar to what happened to farmers protest. Only 3 states protested and the whole media is portraying it as "Indian" farmers protesting.

I know enough about your India where the people are judged on the caste system. Where minorities are oppressed and people have strange dietary habits. I was unfortunate enough to visit your cesspit of a country so know what I am talking about. Not even your Gandhi would have visited every state let alone everyone else, the caste system in India is open o all so don't you deny it.

Sikh's are a big minority yet enough are taking to the streets. If anything the Godi media is trying to downplay the whole thing as if its is nothing. Reality is they are still on the streets demanding there rights which they will surely get. Yeah sure keep fooling yourself! The Kashmir situation, Sikh's protesting, Naxal's murdering your soldiers and China having captured your land is all my imagination. Behave yourself!

 

[PakLFC]

You've lot to learn about India. What I do in these cases, I gather as much knowledge as possible and then visit the places in order to make any assumption of my own without relying on third party sources and verify with the contents that I've read.

Not every state in India is same. The social construct, demography, reception towards different castes are different across the states. That's why you can't say "India" is facing it since it's limited to across a few states only.

Similar to what happened to farmers protest. Only 3 states protested and the whole media is portraying it as "Indian" farmers protesting.

I know enough about your India where the people are judged on the caste system. Where minorities are oppressed and people have strange dietary habits. I was unfortunate enough to visit your cesspit of a country so know what I am talking about. Not even your Gandhi would have visited every state let alone everyone else, the caste system in India is open o all so don't you deny it.

Sikh's are a big minority yet enough are taking to the streets. If anything the Godi media is trying to downplay the whole thing as if its is nothing. Reality is they are still on the streets demanding there rights which they will surely get. Yeah sure keep fooling yourself! The Kashmir situation, Sikh's protesting, Naxal's murdering your soldiers and China having captured your land is all my imagination. Behave yourself!

 

[Napa]

I think the majority of modern Hindu athiests are from backwards classes. Not sure why. Perhaps upper class are too privileged to want to leave the faith.

Where do you get these nuggets from???

Even having grown up in India, I have no idea whether the majority of atheists are from the backward classes. Most atheists I know are ones with higher education, and they are mostly from the upper classes.

 

[Napa]

I know enough about your India where the people are judged on the caste system. Where minorities are oppressed and people have strange dietary habits. I was unfortunate enough to visit your cesspit of a country so know what I am talking about. Not even your Gandhi would have visited every state let alone everyone else, the caste system in India is open o all so don't you deny it.

Sikh's are a big minority yet enough are taking to the streets. If anything the Godi media is trying to downplay the whole thing as if its is nothing. Reality is they are still on the streets demanding there rights which they will surely get. Yeah sure keep fooling yourself! The Kashmir situation, Sikh's protesting, Naxal's murdering your soldiers and China having captured your land is all my imagination. Behave yourself!

You call yourself a "defender of Pakistan" and you think India is a "cesspit" that has more discrimination against the underprivileged than Pakistan?

Explanations for the power of "feudal" landowning families that has waned in other post-colonial societies such as India and Japan include lack of land reform in Pakistan.
...
Almost half of Pakistan's Gross Domestic Product and the bulk of its export earnings are derived from the agricultural sector, which is controlled by a few thousand feudal families. With this concentration of economic power, they also have considerable political power.
...
Thus, large landowners have dominated Pakistan's politics since the country's inception.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudalism_in_Pakistan

FYI, Modi doesn't belong to an upper caste.

 

[PakLFC]

You call yourself a "defender of Pakistan" and you think India is a "cesspit" that has more discrimination against the underprivileged than Pakistan?



FYI, Modi doesn't belong to an upper caste.

The subject here is India, not Pakistan. Of course India is a cesspit and one of the dirtiest and poorest countries in the world no doubt about it. Modi is a member of the Brahmin mafia raj with a dodgy background,it is well known he is a former chaiwala! I am not counting if Pak or Bharat has more discrimination. Every day we here of religious tension and fighting in India, what a mess.

 

[Technics 1210]

The subject here is India, not Pakistan. Of course India is a cesspit and one of the dirtiest and poorest countries in the world no doubt about it. Modi is a member of the Brahmin mafia raj with a dodgy background,it is well known he is a former chaiwala! I am not counting if Pak or Bharat has more discrimination. Every day we here of religious tension and fighting in India, what a mess.

Dodgy background? Modi remains the only person to be banned from entering the USA/UK on religious terrorism. The only reason why the ban was lifted was because the West wanted to rinse India (again) through its economy. Otherwise India has a leader who is a known religious terrorist.

 

[PakLFC]

Dodgy background? Modi remains the only person to be banned from entering the USA/UK on religious terrorism. The only reason why the ban was lifted was because the West wanted to rinse India (again) through its economy. Otherwise India has a leader who is a known religious terrorist.

That's all that matters. Being banned from the UK or USA does not mean he doesn't have a dodgy background. Some say he is married where as others deny it. Have never seen his wife.

 

[Napa]

The subject here is India, not Pakistan. Of course India is a cesspit and one of the dirtiest and poorest countries in the world no doubt about it. Modi is a member of the Brahmin mafia raj with a dodgy background,it is well known he is a former chaiwala! I am not counting if Pak or Bharat has more discrimination. Every day we here of religious tension and fighting in India, what a mess.

It is just paradoxical to see a post from someone whose signature says "defender of Pakistan" calling India a "cesspit" and "one of the dirtiest and poorest countries".

You can make a difference to your own country, insulting another country (which has a higher per cap GDP) by calling it "poor" is not going to help your country. Spend your energy accordingly.

 

[PakLFC]

It is just paradoxical to see a post from someone whose signature says "defender of Pakistan" calling India a "cesspit" and "one of the dirtiest and poorest countries".

You can make a difference to your own country, insulting another country (which has a higher per cap GDP) by calling it "poor" is not going to help your country. Spend your energy accordingly.

If facts are insulting to you then so be it! India is easily the filthiest country i have ever visited, it is beyond disgusting and i ain't the only person saying it! 300 million on the streets or something and usually the top of every negative list you should try to accept the facts instead of fighting them. India is poor, your billionaires like the Ambani's will not change that.

 

[Technics 1210]

If facts are insulting to you then so be it! India is easily the filthiest country i have ever visited, it is beyond disgusting and i ain't the only person saying it! 300 million on the streets or something and usually the top of every negative list you should try to accept the facts instead of fighting them. India is poor, your billionaires like the Ambani's will not change that.

He doesn't live in India. Like millions of Indians, he fled 'incredible' India seeking a better life not offered in India. He's a Western defender of India.

 

[PakLFC]

He doesn't live in India. Like millions of Indians, he fled 'incredible' India seeking a better life not offered in India. He's a Western defender of India.

Yes most Indians can't stomach criticism of their "Bharat Mata" so brainwashed are they by Godi media. They believe India should be compared with the UK, America or Canada. Delusions of grandeur.

 

[rhony]

Good move. Freedom of religion means being able to follow any religion. India is the largest democratic nation on earth and should uphold this basic right.

 

[Napa]

He doesn't live in India. Like millions of Indians, he fled 'incredible' India seeking a better life not offered in India. He's a Western defender of India.

Not sure what you point is? I am very familiar with India even though I live in the US. There are many posters on this forum from the subcontinent who live in the West, I am hardly an exception.

I chose not to provide further data to [MENTION=142169]PakLFC[/MENTION] about which country is "poorer" or "dirtier" by giving more data. One can only improve one's own country, insulting another country when one's own country is on the verge of bankruptcy is rather juvenile.

No more replies unless I see something remotely intelligent.

 

[PakLFC]

Not sure what you point is? I am very familiar with India even though I live in the US. There are many posters on this forum from the subcontinent who live in the West, I am hardly an exception.

I chose not to provide further data to [MENTION=142169]PakLFC[/MENTION] about which country is "poorer" or "dirtier" by giving more data. One can only improve one's own country, insulting another country when one's own country is on the verge of bankruptcy is rather juvenile.

No more replies unless I see something remotely intelligent.

Intelligent?? You mean unless we tell you how great India is you will choose to ignore this thread, go ahead!! India is not and never will be a great country. It is no way near developed countries, stop it!. It is a third world country with more problems then hair on my head. That you are comparing India with a country nine times smaller is size says it all then Indian people say "We are not obsessed with Pakistan " Being bigger has both advantages and disadvantages as well. Calling India "dirty" is insulting to you shows your level of thinking. Do you not know that people from all over the world call India such things?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Not sure what you point is? I am very familiar with India even though I live in the US. There are many posters on this forum from the subcontinent who live in the West, I am hardly an exception.

I chose not to provide further data to [MENTION=142169]PakLFC[/MENTION] about which country is "poorer" or "dirtier" by giving more data. One can only improve one's own country, insulting another country when one's own country is on the verge of bankruptcy is rather juvenile.

No more replies unless I see something remotely intelligent.

See, some Pakistanis are reduced to ranting on their online forums, like their PM. Hardly anyone takes the Pakistani narrative on India seriously.

The other day they were crying that UK banned pakistanis not Indians.

 

[PakLFC]

See, some Pakistanis are reduced to ranting on their online forums, like their PM. Hardly anyone takes the Pakistani narrative on India seriously.

The other day they were crying that UK banned pakistanis not Indians.

Neither does anyone take India's view on Pak seriously either. Modi can keep crying "terrorism" and all the west does not even blink on it, no one cares. Your boring Arnab Goswami anti Pak programs only end up him getting fined then he has to apologize a zillion times so someone does care. Pak being put on the red list was not due to India so don't flatter yourselves. I do not hold India responsible for Pak's poor diplomacy.

 

[El Generico]

See, some Pakistanis are reduced to ranting on their online forums, like their PM. Hardly anyone takes the Pakistani narrative on India seriously.

The other day they were crying that UK banned pakistanis not Indians.

You clearly take Pakistan’s narrative seriously otherwise why would you have over 30K post on a Pakistani forum lol.

 

[Itachi]

Neither does anyone take India's view on Pak seriously either. Modi can keep crying "terrorism" and all the west does not even blink on it, no one cares. Your boring Arnab Goswami anti Pak programs only end up him getting fined then he has to apologize a zillion times so someone does care. Pak being put on the red list was not due to India so don't flatter yourselves. I do not hold India responsible for Pak's poor diplomacy.

Thank you. Atleast you aren't like others who attributes everything to conspiracy by India and has victimized mentality.

 

[PakLFC]

It was funny to see Goswami being made to apologize a record number of times, heavily fined and made to lick his own spit by the UK! No Pak program anchor has ever made to do that on reporting anything on India. Goswami was begging saying the existence of his news channel was in danger yet he still had to pay up All this coz no one cares!!

 

[PakLFC]

Thank you. Atleast you aren't like others who attributes everything to conspiracy by India and has victimized mentality.

I always hold the weak responsible for there state. Pak is weak at diplomacy not because of India but our own politicians and policies.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Neither does anyone take India's view on Pak seriously either. Modi can keep crying "terrorism" and all the west does not even blink on it, no one cares. Your boring Arnab Goswami anti Pak programs only end up him getting fined then he has to apologize a zillion times so someone does care. Pak being put on the red list was not due to India so don't flatter yourselves. I do not hold India responsible for Pak's poor diplomacy.

All your rants and yet pakistanis end up on UN list of terrorists.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

See, some Pakistanis are reduced to ranting on their online forums, like their PM. Hardly anyone takes the Pakistani narrative on India seriously.

The other day they were crying that UK banned pakistanis not Indians.

Well some Indians end up ranting, crying and whining on foreign forums when their great leader is questioned, not many people take them seriously either. India is important to countries like Britain because there is a huge market to tap, Indian narrative on Pakistan is not really our concern.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Well some Indians end up ranting, crying and whining on foreign forums when their great leader is questioned, not many people take them seriously either. India is important to countries like Britain because there is a huge market to tap, Indian narrative on Pakistan is not really our concern.

Why should any Indian leader be answerable to any foreigner?

Well, UK has banned most of terror outfits active in Kashmir, the same Pakistanis call freedom fighters. Seems Indian narrative on Pakistan is very much UK's concern.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Why should any Indian leader be answerable to any foreigner?

Well, UK has banned most of terror outfits active in Kashmir, the same Pakistanis call freedom fighters. Seems Indian narrative on Pakistan is very much UK's concern.

UK bans are lip service whose main prerogative is to grease palms in India. When they want to negotiate better terms they will start publicly praising Pakistan again.

 

[Itachi]

UK bans are lip service whose main prerogative is to grease palms in India. When they want to negotiate better terms they will start publicly praising Pakistan again.

In other terms, UK needs to please third world countries like India or Pakistan to get the job done. Not bad for third world countries I might say.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

In other terms, UK needs to please third world countries like India or Pakistan to get the job done. Not bad for third world countries I might say.

UK does for it's own benefit, if it works out good for the third world then fine. If it doesn't, too bad.

 

[OMB]

Stay on Topic. Discuss GDP on other threads

 

[PakLFC]

All your rants and yet pakistanis end up on UN list of terrorists.

Pravin Sawhney often tells India to stop crying. Better you face reality then live in a dream world. In India people are not free to choose there religion unless they want to get bashed. These right wing Hindu fanatics are allover the place forcing their brand of intolerance on everyone.

 

[Itachi]

Pravin Sawhney often tells India to stop crying. Better you face reality then live in a dream world. In India people are not free to choose there religion unless they want to get bashed. These right wing Hindu fanatics are allover the place forcing their brand of intolerance on everyone.

Can a muslim denounce islam?

 

[PakLFC]

Can a muslim denounce islam?

You maybe surprised to hear that Islam allows apostasy. It is today's illiterate Muslims who do not understand Islam in depth. There are many former Muslim's like Bollywood lyricist Javed Akhtar.

 

[Itachi]

You maybe surprised to hear that Islam allows apostasy. It is today's illiterate Muslims who do not understand Islam in depth. There are many former Muslim's like Bollywood lyricist Javed Akhtar.

Where does javed Akhtar live?

 

[PakLFC]

Where does javed Akhtar live?

India of course. Are you sure you are living in Delhi??

 

[Itachi]

India of course. Are you sure you are living in Delhi??

Why I asked was, it just goes to show that, religious tolerance is prevalent in India where various religion, atheists can co exist. Even if someone uses the legal framework in order to bring changes, the judiciary doesn't allow it as we've seen above. The check points that were placed by Indian constituition, still promotes the tolerance in a multi religious, multi cultural India.

You gave an example and even that example originates in India.

What you claimed and then your followed up statements are contradictory.

 

[PakLFC]

Why I asked was, it just goes to show that, religious tolerance is prevalent in India where various religion, atheists can co exist. Even if someone uses the legal framework in order to bring changes, the judiciary doesn't allow it as we've seen above. The check points that were placed by Indian constituition, still promotes the tolerance in a multi religious, multi cultural India.

You gave an example and even that example originates in India.

What you claimed and then your followed up statements are contradictory.

There are many former Muslims living in other countries as well including Muslim countries including Pakistan. I mentioned Javed Akhtar as he is Indian like yourself so you can relate to him better. There are always at least two sides to every coin, as JA is a celebrity he will be less targeted by religious fanatics then a common person for becoming an atheist. Do you not remember Indian's like Shabana Azmi and Emraan Hashmi recently saying how they were denied buying homes in Mumbai due to their Muslim faith?? Your lack tolerance is for everyone to see through all the rioting every day on your TV channels or accusations of things like "love jihad". Javed Akhtar leaving Islam does not mean India is a religiously tolerant country. The American's recently downgraded your India to "partly free", stop fooling yourself.

 

[PakLFC]

...and Amir Khan saying he was afraid to live in India. Naseerudin Shah said something similar then Hindu fanatics all ganged up on them. Tolerant India, huh!! Dil behelane ke liye yeh khayal acha hai Ghalib!

 

[Itachi]

There are many former Muslims living in other countries as well including Muslim countries including Pakistan. I mentioned Javed Akhtar as he is Indian like yourself so you can relate to him better. There are always at least two sides to every coin, as JA is a celebrity he will be less targeted by religious fanatics then a common person for becoming an atheist. Do you not remember Indian's like Shabana Azmi and Emraan Hashmi recently saying how they were denied buying homes in Mumbai due to their Muslim faith?? Your lack tolerance is for everyone to see through all the rioting every day on your TV channels or accusations of things like "love jihad". Javed Akhtar leaving Islam does not mean India is a religiously tolerant country. The American's recently downgraded your India to "partly free", stop fooling yourself.

There are two sides of every coin. You were right.

Same applies to media showing rioting.

 

[Robbie]

There are many former Muslims living in other countries as well including Muslim countries including Pakistan. I mentioned Javed Akhtar as he is Indian like yourself so you can relate to him better. There are always at least two sides to every coin, as JA is a celebrity he will be less targeted by religious fanatics then a common person for becoming an atheist. Do you not remember Indian's like Shabana Azmi and Emraan Hashmi recently saying how they were denied buying homes in Mumbai due to their Muslim faith?? Your lack tolerance is for everyone to see through all the rioting every day on your TV channels or accusations of things like "love jihad". Javed Akhtar leaving Islam does not mean India is a religiously tolerant country. The American's recently downgraded your India to "partly free", stop fooling yourself.

Name me one Muslim in Pakistan who renounced faith of Islam and living peacefully.. Lie have no legs to stand on

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Name me one Muslim in Pakistan who renounced faith of Islam and living peacefully.. Lie have no legs to stand on

Bilal Assadi who lives in Mian Channu district Khanewal.

 

[PakLFC]

Name me one Muslim in Pakistan who renounced faith of Islam and living peacefully.. Lie have no legs to stand on

There are many i assure you. Problem is you are looking at celebrities here instead of common people. Alhumdolillah, I have two legs to stand on!

 

[PakLFC]

There are two sides of every coin. You were right.

Same applies to media showing rioting.

Then stop telling us how great your Bharat Mata is!

 

[PakLFC]

Name me one Muslim in Pakistan who renounced faith of Islam and living peacefully.. Lie have no legs to stand on

The difference is Pak people don't tell the world how wonderfully tolerant we are. It is Indian's going on about "mera Bharat mahaan" and nonsense like that. This makes you all look so foolish when every day someone from a minority is being killed or oppressed in India.

 

[PakLFC]

Indian people know nothing about Pakistani Christians or non Muslims. There are a good number of ex Muslim's who converted to Christianity in Pak who are still alive. I am not gonna say all is rosy yet not as terrible as many believe. Visit Pakistani Christian websites to see many ex Muslims there. You see unlike Bharat the Pakistan is not "Mahaan" https://www.pakistanchristianpost.com/

 

[Itachi]

The difference is Pak people don't tell the world how wonderfully tolerant we are. It is Indian's going on about "mera Bharat mahaan" and nonsense like that. This makes you all look so foolish when every day someone from a minority is being killed or oppressed in India.

Its not India's issue that Pakistani people have low self esteem and doesn't even have the proudness to feel the greatness that a country has achieved even after getting exploited by invaders for hundreds of years.

No country is great because in this world, absolute greatness doesn't exist. That doesn't mean you will put down the entity that is feeding you.

 

[PakLFC]

Its not India's issue that Pakistani people have low self esteem and doesn't even have the proudness to feel the greatness that a country has achieved even after getting exploited by invaders for hundreds of years.

No country is great because in this world, absolute greatness doesn't exist. That doesn't mean you will put down the entity that is feeding you.

I see so 300 million people on the streets is mahanta! All these rapes and what not is a sign of greatness! We don't need Indian's to make us feel proud to be Pakistanis.

We have achieved plenty like being a nuke power and having a beautiful country. At the time of independence we had one university or something. We unlike you Indian's don't depend on white people to praise us! We don't die to be like them half as much as lIndian's do! One Bollywood movie is enough to show the massive western complex you people suffer from.

You will never be white no matter how hard you try. No matter how hard you try to import western culture through your films and all you will never be American's or Europeans! Now it is so common to have single mother's and scantily dressed ladies in India, this is what i call a lack of confidence dying to be someone else!! Oh by the way these invaders contributed greatly to the Indian culture of today as well. You would have no Urdu, Biryani, Salwar Kamiz, Ghazal, Qawwali's and Kebab's to name a few things without these invaders. Throughout human history the powerful always oppress the weak. Get on with it!