People free to choose religion : Indian Supreme Court refuses to entertain petition on conversions

[Itachi]

I see so 300 million people on the streets is mahanta! All these rapes and what not is a sign of greatness! We don't need Indian's to make us feel proud to be Pakistanis.

We have achieved plenty like being a nuke power and having a beautiful country. At the time of independence we had one university or something. We unlike you Indian's don't depend on white people to praise us! We don't die to be like them half as much as lIndian's do! One Bollywood movie is enough to show the massive western complex you people suffer from.

You will never be white no matter how hard you try. No matter how hard you try to import western culture through your films and all you will never be American's or Europeans! Now it is so common to have single mother's and scantily dressed ladies in India, this is what i call a lack of confidence dying to be someone else!! Oh by the way these invaders contributed greatly to the Indian culture of today as well. You would have no Urdu, Biryani, Salwar Kamiz, Ghazal, Qawwali's and Kebab's to name a few things without these invaders. Throughout human history the powerful always oppress the weak. Get on with it!

You stated that Pakistani people don't tell the world how they are.

Since this stems from low self confidence, the representation is always horrible when it comes to international arena. There's a reason why Pakistani don't do that. Even in cricket match, the way Indians speak to the media so elegantly yet Pakistani players find it very difficult to string two sentences together.

We tell the people how we are because we are proud of ourselves despite obvious weakness of the system which will exist since the world isn't the perfect itself.

Pakistani should also start to feel proud about their country. It creates a bonding. Don't live under self insecurities which is evident from your last post.

 

[PakLFC]

You stated that Pakistani people don't tell the world how they are.

Since this stems from low self confidence, the representation is always horrible when it comes to international arena. There's a reason why Pakistani don't do that. Even in cricket match, the way Indians speak to the media so elegantly yet Pakistani players find it very difficult to string two sentences together.

We tell the people how we are because we are proud of ourselves despite obvious weakness of the system which will exist since the world isn't the perfect itself.

Pakistani should also start to feel proud about their country. It creates a bonding. Don't live under self insecurities which is evident from your last post.

"You stated that Pakistani people don't tell the world how they are." Where did I say that or did you misunderstand me?I said Pakistanis are poor at diplomacy and stand by that. This does not mean low self confidence but the constant political upheaval in the country. Low confidence is what Indian's do when trying to ape the west, Pakistanis are far more in to our culture then Indian's are in to there's.

So again by saying that Indian players speak better English you are admitting your white complex again, thanks for being honest! My Urdu is far better then Virat Kohli's as well that much I can tell you! Had you been proud would be true to your culture instead of wanting to be white, strange that you want to be like the Brit's who ruled you for 200 years! Even many Indian thinkers and intellectuals are embarrassed at what India has become. I have even heard the RSS and BJP moaning about it as well.
https://rahulyadavca.medium.com/why-do-indians-have-an-inferiority-complex-820d09c9c3fb

I would say Indian people revert back to what they originally are. Leave out the western single mother culture, micro mini's, fake accents, skin whitening creams and high fives every ten seconds. Pak problems more then anything else is politics otherwise we adore our culture.

 

[Itachi]

"You stated that Pakistani people don't tell the world how they are." Where did I say that or did you misunderstand me?I said Pakistanis are poor at diplomacy and stand by that. This does not mean low self confidence but the constant political upheaval in the country. Low confidence is what Indian's do when trying to ape the west, Pakistanis are far more in to our culture then Indian's are in to there's.

So again by saying that Indian players speak better English you are admitting your white complex again, thanks for being honest! My Urdu is far better then Virat Kohli's as well that much I can tell you! Had you been proud would be true to your culture instead of wanting to be white, strange that you want to be like the Brit's who ruled you for 200 years! Even many Indian thinkers and intellectuals are embarrassed at what India has become. I have even heard the RSS and BJP moaning about it as well.
https://rahulyadavca.medium.com/why-do-indians-have-an-inferiority-complex-820d09c9c3fb

I would say Indian people revert back to what they originally are. Leave out the western single mother culture, micro mini's, fake accents, skin whitening creams and high fives every ten seconds. Pak problems more then anything else is politics otherwise we adore our culture.

The founder of Pakistan, jinnah had embraced the western culture and here you are criticizing the ideology that had shaped him.

Its a bit controversial so let me ask directly.

Do you think jinnah had made a mistake since he adopted to western life style for most aspects of life?

 

[PakLFC]

The founder of Pakistan, jinnah had embraced the western culture and here you are criticizing the ideology that had shaped him.

Its a bit controversial so let me ask directly.

Do you think jinnah had made a mistake since he adopted to western life style for most aspects of life?

Jinnah had to converse with the British unlike most people living in Pak. He was an affluent man unlike most Pakistanis who could afford to learn English. It is normal for a leading lawyer of the time to have good English. The western or should i say Victorian culture he adopted of that period was very different to today's one. M A Jinnah should have worked much harder on his Urdu but understandably it was not a priority for him. The Chinese hardly speak English yet look at how well they are doing. How many native English speakers excel in other languages? Intelligence does not mean having good English like Indian people think.

 

[Itachi]

Jinnah had to converse with the British unlike most people living in Pak. He was an affluent man unlike most Pakistanis who could afford to learn English. It is normal for a leading lawyer of the time to have good English. The western or should i say Victorian culture he adopted of that period was very different to today's one. M A Jinnah should have worked much harder on his Urdu but understandably it was not a priority for him. The Chinese hardly speak English yet look at how well they are doing. How many native English speakers excel in other languages? Intelligence does not mean having good English like Indian people think.

You didn't answer my question. I asked,

Do you think jinnah had made a mistake since he adopted to western life style for most aspects of life?

Its a simple yes or no question.

 

[PakLFC]

You didn't answer my question. I asked,

Do you think jinnah had made a mistake since he adopted to western life style for most aspects of life?

Its a simple yes or no question.

No it was not a mistake. Most Indian's however speak good Hindi so there is no comparison if that is what you are getting at.

 

[Itachi]

No it was not a mistake. Most Indian's however speak good Hindi so there is no comparison if that is what you are getting at.

This is why Pakistani has lack of credentials in international arena.

If jinnah does it, it's not a mistake but if others does the same, then criticize them to death. The more you speak, the more hypocrisy and double standards that comes with it same in the line of when IK was embarrassed by questions leading to exposing his hypocrisy in treatment of muslims in the al Jazeera interview.

Even with all the insecurities, Indians are stil proud.

Though you claim Pakistanis don't have insecurities, essentially the wide spread victimized mentality points to psychological deep scar even greater than insecurities and that's why under delusion, double standards comes in to play as defensive shield as you've shown in the last 3-4 posts.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Name me one Muslim in Pakistan who renounced faith of Islam and living peacefully.. Lie have no legs to stand on

There are millions of non practicing Muslims in Pakistan who are living peacefully. The reason they still identify as Muslim is because Pakistan and Muslim are synonymous for us. Same way like their are atheist, and agnostic Hindus, there are atheist and agnostic Muslims. Same way in subcontinent you can be a cultural Hindu, you can be a cultural Muslim

 

[PakLFC]

This is why Pakistani has lack of credentials in international arena.

If jinnah does it, it's not a mistake but if others does the same, then criticize them to death. The more you speak, the more hypocrisy and double standards that comes with it same in the line of when IK was embarrassed by questions leading to exposing his hypocrisy in treatment of muslims in the al Jazeera interview.

Even with all the insecurities, Indians are stil proud.

Though you claim Pakistanis don't have insecurities, essentially the wide spread victimized mentality points to psychological deep scar even greater than insecurities and that's why under delusion, double standards comes in to play as defensive shield as you've shown in the last 3-4 posts.

I am not against western culture per say. I am against the negative aspects of western culture like infidelity, womanising and so forth. Indian's for most of there history have been conservative people like us Pakistanis. It is a recent occurrence to see them behaving like coconuts adopting everything western. People will rightfully just laugh and mock you for that. No one respects an imposter!

You comparing Jinnah to regular Pakistanis is like me saying why don't you dress like Gandhi!! There is no comparison here for goodness sake! You are proud of being slaves of the west and mocking them?? Yes, IK is often a hypocrite as I have said on other threads that is a different subject altogether to what this thread is about. Is there no hypocrisy in India when Hindu fundo's condemn terror yet support the killing of Kashmiris. Do you think Jinnah should have spoken Arabic with the Brit's to prove he is not a hypocrite?

Rather I think Indian's do not know what they want or who they are. One minute they love the Kashmiris and Sikhs then the next they are killing them!. Go and watch a Indian programme and see how everything is blamed on Pakistan from someone falling ill to a train derailing near the Bangladesh border one way or another Pakistan will be involved. This delusions of grandeur of how great Bharat is does no good to anyone at all, it is a fact that the RSS have still not accepted that Pakistan is a reality, you all need to deal with this chronic problem deeply ingrained in your minds. This is the real problem here and you know it! Seeing India and it's poverty heaven help you if that is what makes you proud!

Jinnah did not do high fives, speak in a fake accent neither did his sister dress the way your ladies do today! It is absurd for you to compare him to what Indian people have become today.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Excellent decision by Indian Supreme Court.Had the Supreme Court in Pakistan passed such a decision,people in our country would have blamed judges for blasphemy.

From the Pakistan constitution:

Freedom to profess religion and to manage religious institutions.
Subject to law, public order and morality:-
(a) every citizen shall have the right to profess, practice and propagate his religion; and
(b) every religious denomination and every sect thereof shall have the right to establish, maintain and manage its religious institutions.

http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/constitution/part2.ch1.html

Since the constitution of India is secular, minorities in India have always enjoyed a better status and will continue to do so than in Pakistan.Once again, Kudos to Indian Supreme Court!!!!

Do you realize minorities in Pakistan get a quota in parliament and in jobs. Muslims dont get that in India.

The only groups that are really hurt by Pakistan not being secular officially are Muslims. Muslims cant legally drink. A Muslim sect called Ahmadis are not allowed to call themselves Muslim. etc.

The only law effecting non Muslims is that they cant be President or PM, and in a democratic county which is 97% Muslim it is unlikely they would win that position in a election anyway.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

You stated that Pakistani people don't tell the world how they are.

Since this stems from low self confidence, the representation is always horrible when it comes to international arena. There's a reason why Pakistani don't do that. Even in cricket match, the way Indians speak to the media so elegantly yet Pakistani players find it very difficult to string two sentences together.

We tell the people how we are because we are proud of ourselves despite obvious weakness of the system which will exist since the world isn't the perfect itself.

Pakistani should also start to feel proud about their country. It creates a bonding. Don't live under self insecurities which is evident from your last post.

They are cricket players, not orators.

 

[Itachi]

I am not against western culture per say. I am against the negative aspects of western culture like infidelity, womanising and so forth. Indian's for most of there history have been conservative people like us Pakistanis. It is a recent occurrence to see them behaving like coconuts adopting everything western. People will rightfully just laugh and mock you for that. No one respects an imposter!

You comparing Jinnah to regular Pakistanis is like me saying why don't you dress like Gandhi!! There is no comparison here for goodness sake! You are proud of being slaves of the west and mocking them?? Yes, IK is often a hypocrite as I have said on other threads that is a different subject altogether to what this thread is about. Is there no hypocrisy in India when Hindu fundo's condemn terror yet support the killing of Kashmiris. Do you think Jinnah should have spoken Arabic with the Brit's to prove he is not a hypocrite?

Rather I think Indian's do not know what they want or who they are. One minute they love the Kashmiris and Sikhs then the next they are killing them!. Go and watch a Indian programme and see how everything is blamed on Pakistan from someone falling ill to a train derailing near the Bangladesh border one way or another Pakistan will be involved. This delusions of grandeur of how great Bharat is does no good to anyone at all, it is a fact that the RSS have still not accepted that Pakistan is a reality, you all need to deal with this chronic problem deeply ingrained in your minds. This is the real problem here and you know it! Seeing India and it's poverty heaven help you if that is what makes you proud!

Jinnah did not do high fives, speak in a fake accent neither did his sister dress the way your ladies do today! It is absurd for you to compare him to what Indian people have become today.

Media is media be it Indian or Pakistani. It is driven by its own agenda and hence any programs will be attributed to it.

My subject was common people and there is deep psychological scar in Pakistani which automatically drives them to victimize mentality in order to escape from reality. This wide spread phenomenon is particularly prevalent in Pakistan.

As a Muslim, drinking alcohol would be more geared towards adopting negative aspects of western ideology than doing high five (I have rarely seen any guys do that but let's assume it's true for argument sake).

Yet, doing high five is bigger offense than drinking alcohol which is forbidden in the Islamic principle.

This is the hypocrisy that i talked about.

You should introspect about your own arguments and realize how it comes off as double standards to the audience in front of you.

 

[Itachi]

They are cricket players, not orators.

Presentation and interactions are important in any aspect of life to excel which is fuelled by the confidence one has for himself.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Presentation and interactions are important in any aspect of life to excel which is fuelled by the confidence one has for himself.

Its not lacking confidence in themsleves its lacking confidence in speaking English, a language that the majority of Pakistani players are not fluent in. The same players can give better answers in Urdu where they will appear more confident.

 

[RajBan]

Do you realize minorities in Pakistan get a quota in parliament and in jobs. Muslims dont get that in India.

I don't think quota helps. Any form of reservation should only be a tactically targeted solution for backwards and unprivileged, not based on religion and not used as an entitlement as it hurts the actual development more.

On the ongoing discussion, I don't think Pakistan is a good place for minorities. Maybe urban areas are fine as people have jobs and business. But the stories that I hear about southern punjab and interior sindh does not paint a good picture. Understand some of it is media sensationalism but a lot of it is true as well.

It is equally true that in India you find similar bigotry against non Hindus especially in the heartland , maybe to a slightly lesser extent probably because minorities are much more integrated in the mainstream society.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

I don't think quota helps. Any form of reservation should only be a tactically targeted solution for backwards and unprivileged, not based on religion and not used as an entitlement as it hurts the actual development more.

On the ongoing discussion, I don't think Pakistan is a good place for minorities. Maybe urban areas are fine as people have jobs and business. But the stories that I hear about southern punjab and interior sindh does not paint a good picture. Understand some of it is media sensationalism but a lot of it is true as well.

It is equally true that in India you find similar bigotry against non Hindus especially in the heartland , maybe to a slightly lesser extent probably because minorities are much more integrated in the mainstream society.

Do you think Pakistan is a good country for Muslims? The only people Pakistan is good for is people who are in the upper middle class and above. A Hindu who lives in a posh area of Karachi will have a good life.

Majority of Pakistani Hindus live in interior Sindh and have it pretty bad. On a scale of a 1 to 10, i would say their living condition is a 2/10. However Sindhi Muslims who live in interior Sindh dont have it much better. I would say their condition is a 3/10.

It is equally true that in India you find similar bigotry against non Hindus especially in the heartland , maybe to a slightly lesser extent probably because minorities are much more integrated in the mainstream society.

In India BJP's elected politicians make anti Muslim comments all the time. They would not do that if it did not get them votes, and the people did not support those views.

In Pakistan you dont see the 3 main stream parties (PTI, PPP, and PML N) really making anti minority statements. And if someone does they are held accountable. Those 3 parties dont get votes on making anti minority statements. At least not since 2008.

 

[RajBan]

In India BJP's elected politicians make anti Muslim comments all the time. They would not do that if it did not get them votes, and the people did not support those views.

In Pakistan you dont see the 3 main stream parties (PTI, PPP, and PML N) really making anti minority statements. And if someone does they are held accountable. Those 3 parties dont get votes on making anti minority statements. At least not since 2008.

You are correct that right wing Hindu leaders make offensive comments against Muslim communities in particular specially during electoral seasons. It is also a fact however that Muslim political parties make equally offensive and violent remarks against Hindus, Christians. Do you see any Hindu or Christian dare to say such bigoted statements openly?

The political parties polarize people and communities for their benefits specially during votes and gullible mass including educated folks follow them like idiots. We are a flawed society in that sense. But I don't agree the electoral polarization has led to social polarization. It may lead to in future but not yet.

 

[CricketCartoons]

In Pakistan you dont see the 3 main stream parties (PTI, PPP, and PML N) really making anti minority statements. And if someone does they are held accountable. Those 3 parties dont get votes on making anti minority statements. At least not since 2008.

The closest equivalent of muslim in india is not a hindu in pakistan, but an ahmadi (even then it will be far off).

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This is why Pakistani has lack of credentials in international arena.

If jinnah does it, it's not a mistake but if others does the same, then criticize them to death. The more you speak, the more hypocrisy and double standards that comes with it same in the line of when IK was embarrassed by questions leading to exposing his hypocrisy in treatment of muslims in the al Jazeera interview.

Even with all the insecurities, Indians are stil proud.

Though you claim Pakistanis don't have insecurities, essentially the wide spread victimized mentality points to psychological deep scar even greater than insecurities and that's why under delusion, double standards comes in to play as defensive shield as you've shown in the last 3-4 posts.

Even the idea of being ultra-defensive is a western concept. Your long lectures on Pakistan lacking confidence while Indians are proud is defensive in itself. What are you proud of exactly?

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Even the idea of being ultra-defensive is a western concept. Your long lectures on Pakistan lacking confidence while Indians are proud is defensive in itself. What are you proud of exactly?

our culture, our ancient civilisation, a little contribution to science and mathematics, from paninis grammar rules to APJ Kalam, Indians Rocket Man.
great architecture of temples, non aligned movement,
Multiple languages and diversity, from Tamil to Punjabi, And from Aaaloo Paratha to Dosa.

asceticism of Buddhism and Jainism to Guru Nanak path to truth to Brahminism.

 

[Itachi]

Even the idea of being ultra-defensive is a western concept. Your long lectures on Pakistan lacking confidence while Indians are proud is defensive in itself. What are you proud of exactly?

.... The entity that is "India".

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

our culture, our ancient civilisation, a little contribution to science and mathematics, from paninis grammar rules to APJ Kalam, Indians Rocket Man.
great architecture of temples, non aligned movement,
Multiple languages and diversity, from Tamil to Punjabi, And from Aaaloo Paratha to Dosa.

asceticism of Buddhism and Jainism to Guru Nanak path to truth to Brahminism.

These are all great if you live in India, do they provide much present value to the world at large?

 

[IndoorCricket]

Not to forget many from India contributing to advancement of human civilization at large. They are scientists, astronauts, CEOs, Doctors, etc.

Contributions to spirituality and inner well being is unmatched by other country.

 

[Itachi]

These are all great if you live in India, do they provide much present value to the world at large?

Why should it matter?

A mother feeds, takes care of a baby.

It has no value to a stranger.

But does that mean, that kid should stop being proud about his mother and her commitment, dedication?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Not to forget many from India contributing to advancement of human civilization at large. They are scientists, astronauts, CEOs, Doctors, etc.

Contributions to spirituality and inner well being is unmatched by other country.

So why does India look like Bangladesh instead of Germany or Italy?

 

[IndoorCricket]

So why does India look like Bangladesh instead of Germany or Italy?

India got independence in 1947. Germany and Italy are colonizers. India got conquered and ruled for hundred of years. By the time India is independent it was left in a miserable condition. It takes few more decades or centuries to reach its potential. Its population is also huge with diverse backgrounds. Population is boon and a curse to India. People just flee this country for better opportunities and standard of living aboard. It is sad that the brain power of this country is being brained. Ppl get educated in top most universities and colleges and settle in already developed countries. Nothing against them. When there is so much competition all you think about is survival not to excel and innovate.

 

[Itachi]

India got independence in 1947. Germany and Italy are colonizers. India got conquered and ruled for hundred of years. By the time India is independent it was left in a miserable condition. It takes few more decades or centuries to reach its potential. Its population is also huge with diverse backgrounds. Population is boon and a curse to India. People just flee this country for better opportunities and standard of living aboard. It is sad that the brain power of this country is being brained. Ppl get educated in top most universities and colleges and settle in already developed countries. Nothing against them. When there is so much competition all you think about is survival not to excel and innovate.

This doesn't answer his question though. Why an Indian should feel proud about above?

 

[Local.Dada]

These are all great if you live in India, do they provide much present value to the world at large?

Yes. Even before all other parameters which may be beyond your comprehension, let me give you a simpler example- India has one of the largest middle classes in the world which makes it the most attractive destination for businesses.

Obviously diplomacy, economics etc may not be your strong suite so let’s go back to a subject that may be more at your level- feces,toilets, slums etc. ironically enough I did see some areas within Britain filled with folks dressed in “traditional attire” if you know what I mean that didn’t look like a much bigger upgrade then some of the ghettos of India.

 

[IndoorCricket]

This doesn't answer his question though. Why an Indian should feel proud about above?

I answered this

So why does India look like Bangladesh instead of Germany or Italy?

I am proud of my spiritual lineage. The great rishis and Yogis. I believe every citizen should be proud their country. Unless you identify with your country you cant work for its upliftment.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yes. Even before all other parameters which may be beyond your comprehension, let me give you a simpler example- India has one of the largest middle classes in the world which makes it the most attractive destination for businesses.

Obviously diplomacy, economics etc may not be your strong suite so let’s go back to a subject that may be more at your level- feces,toilets, slums etc. ironically enough I did see some areas within Britain filled with folks dressed in “traditional attire” if you know what I mean that didn’t look like a much bigger upgrade then some of the ghettos of India.

I know exactly what you mean, even with my limited intellect. It's not that ironic actually, just sort of reinforces my point. I am assuming you visited Indian dominated cities like Southall, Leicester, Wembley etc. You might have noticed that they don't look that much different to the more Pakistani dominated ones like Bradford, Birmingham etc. Lots of saris, temples, scruffy high streets and such.

But yes I managed to grasp the point that India with their large masses will have some middle classes which is a great opportunity for foreign business. Other than that there do seem to be some common factors with desi lifestyle abroad.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I answered this



I am proud of my spiritual lineage. The great rishis and Yogis. I believe every citizen should be proud their country. Unless you identify with your country you cant work for its upliftment.

India is definitely well regarded for it's spiritual heritage. I think that is a good call.

 

[PakLFC]

Media is media be it Indian or Pakistani. It is driven by its own agenda and hence any programs will be attributed to it.

My subject was common people and there is deep psychological scar in Pakistani which automatically drives them to victimize mentality in order to escape from reality. This wide spread phenomenon is particularly prevalent in Pakistan.

As a Muslim, drinking alcohol would be more geared towards adopting negative aspects of western ideology than doing high five (I have rarely seen any guys do that but let's assume it's true for argument sake).

Yet, doing high five is bigger offense than drinking alcohol which is forbidden in the Islamic principle.

This is the hypocrisy that i talked about.

You should introspect about your own arguments and realize how it comes off as double standards to the audience in front of you.

That coming from a hypocrite Indian who attacks IK over some interview he did on Al-Jazeerah when your own PM is an illiterate always caught up in embarrassing situations make you look even more stupid. Modi is not an illiterate or foolish for not being fluent in English but because he walks away when Karan Thapar humiliated him and has no knowledge of any subject other then making tea! This incredible thick man tells us how fighter jets can be hidden behind clouds!! IK despite his short comings is ten times the man Modi ever was or will be.

I have explained that Pak people even common ones are victims of political parties. I am not one of those who blames other countries for our problems and yes Indian people equally suffer from a western complex much more then Pakistanis do. What "psychological scar" are you talking about? It was the the Russian invasion of Afghanistan that is responsible for what Pak has become since then. If you analyse impartially will see that prior to the said event we were doing much better then you. Where did I say that Pakistanis did not consume liquor or attempt to justify them doing so only that this act can not be attributed to western culture.

Pakistanis unlike Indians are aware of their own problems. Indians on the other hand always blame Pak for what happens there as mentioned before. Even your elections are decided on hatred of Pakistan.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

These are all great if you live in India, do they provide much present value to the world at large?

Why do they need provide a value to world ? They provide value to Indians first and foremost.
Science and Technology helps the country first, and then the world.

Culture and aspects of tourism, related to it, help the economy. Why do people travel to European countries to see the old buildings, and experience the culture. Well, India has spiritual tourism.

Diversity and various types of experience in food, well they provide value to my taste buds at least, that is good enough from me.
From Mumbais Vada Pav to Bangalores Sambhar, from Punjabs Lassi to Coconut water of Kerala.

At the end, All I can say that India is an experience of Life, The ups and downs, the abjectness of despair to the plethora of richness. I am proud o all things that came along with this experience, good or bad.

 

[Itachi]

That coming from a hypocrite Indian who attacks IK over some interview he did on Al-Jazeerah when your own PM is an illiterate always caught up in embarrassing situations make you look even more stupid. Modi is not an illiterate or foolish for not being fluent in English but because he walks away when Karan Thapar humiliated him and has no knowledge of any subject other then making tea! This incredible thick man tells us how fighter jets can be hidden behind clouds!! IK despite his short comings is ten times the man Modi ever was or will be.

I have explained that Pak people even common ones are victims of political parties. I am not one of those who blames other countries for our problems and yes Indian people equally suffer from a western complex much more then Pakistanis do. What "psychological scar" are you talking about? It was the the Russian invasion of Afghanistan that is responsible for what Pak has become since then. If you analyse impartially will see that prior to the said event we were doing much better then you. Where did I say that Pakistanis did not consume liquor or attempt to justify them doing so only that this act can not be attributed to western culture.

Pakistanis unlike Indians are aware of their own problems. Indians on the other hand always blame Pak for what happens there as mentioned before. Even your elections are decided on hatred of Pakistan.

You quoted my word, then disagreed while writing a new post and exactly followed the same hypocritic pattern as I've wrote before.

In all your posts,

If Indian does "X" , it's western complex.

If Pakistani does it, though "x" act is western influence, Pakistani people are free from it.

(x = any action attributed to western culture)

--------

You talked about Pakistani people not blaming others foe their fortune but then later on went to attribute the victimized mentality of the people even now to russian invasion of Afghanistan.

--------

The problem is, you are also institutionalized so you won't realize where the double standards is. Jinnah was your hero yet, you will criticize others for same actions yet you will hail him high.

If you are young around 20s, then it's ok because this is the time when people starts to question about the system and tries to come out from stagnant thought process.

If you are older, then being institutionalized will always give you a biased perspective and will involve hypocrisy.

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

You stated that Pakistani people don't tell the world how they are.

Since this stems from low self confidence, the representation is always horrible when it comes to international arena. There's a reason why Pakistani don't do that. Even in cricket match, the way Indians speak to the media so elegantly yet Pakistani players find it very difficult to string two sentences together.

We tell the people how we are because we are proud of ourselves despite obvious weakness of the system which will exist since the world isn't the perfect itself.

Pakistani should also start to feel proud about their country. It creates a bonding. Don't live under self insecurities which is evident from your last post.

Yes, this must be the reason why most Indians taken on a Gora name like mick, Ron, Dave as soon as they get to western country and try their level best to mimic the westerners. I ve not seen more chumcageer ppl than indians.

Also at very first opportunity they are dying to escape from Mahan Bharat. All this must be stemming from the high self esteem that you are telling us about.

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

Not to forget many from India contributing to advancement of human civilization at large. They are scientists, astronauts, CEOs, Doctors, etc.

Contributions to spirituality and inner well being is unmatched by other country.

Lol again the CEOs.

Indian civilisation and culture is inferior thatswhy it couldnt even prevail in India itself. Let alone spreading to the wider world. Nobody in the world looks upto India for being a shining example of anything.

The current Indian language (hindi) and many traditions like food, world known pieces of architecture like Taj Mahal etc are heavily influenced by outside cultures.

 

[Bigboii]

I don't know why all of the right wing, Pakistan hating type indians think

Pakistanis have inferiority complex

I have seen plenty of bobby Jindals in my life and no bobby Muhammad

Should I start making highly biased assumptions that indians suffer from inferiority complex?
and treat it like a fact

I genuinely don't know where this talking point is coming from, and am not angry at this phenomenon just amazed

it's so weird!!

 

[IndoorCricket]

Lol again the CEOs.

Indian civilisation and culture is inferior thatswhy it couldnt even prevail in India itself. Let alone spreading to the wider world. Nobody in the world looks upto India for being a shining example of anything.

The current Indian language (hindi) and many traditions like food, world known pieces of architecture like Taj Mahal etc are heavily influenced by outside cultures.

India have many other marvelous architectures which are far better than Taj Mahal. India might not be an shinning example but Indians are as Joe Biden recently said it better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXpvajPupS8

Hindi is not the only language in India. There are 23 official languages and many local languages. India is know for its vegetarian dishes and not only biryani. I am not sure why you harbor such animosity against anything India. Hatred is a poison which will blind you and eat you from inside.

Coming to Indian civilization its still the oldest surviving civilization in the world when everything else is wiped out by invaders and I see a major resurgence of it.

People should be proud of their nation and work for the betterment of it in whatever capacity they can. India might be poor and a third world country now but I am pretty sure it will have its glory days in future.

 

[Itachi]

Yes, this must be the reason why most Indians taken on a Gora name like mick, Ron, Dave as soon as they get to western country and try their level best to mimic the westerners. I ve not seen more chumcageer ppl than indians.

When in Rome, be like Romans.

Its better to blend in the crowd adopting the social norms of that place (like US Pakistani) than trying to impose own social constructs to the local culture and disrupting it (like some British Pakistanis).

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Lol again the CEOs.

Indian civilisation and culture is inferior thatswhy it couldnt even prevail in India itself. Let alone spreading to the wider world. Nobody in the world looks upto India for being a shining example of anything.

The current Indian language (hindi) and many traditions like food, world known pieces of architecture like Taj Mahal etc are heavily influenced by outside cultures.

Which food and temple is only because of outside influence ?.. Taj is not the only building in India.
And CEOS of Zomato, PayTM, Infosys, TATA, Reliance, OYO Rooms, OLA etc. and there are millions more like them are born, living and thriving within India. I have named few companies here the list is very large.

Name a Pakistan homegrown Multi Billion Dollar Tech Company ? How many are there ?
Don't need ignorant replies, inform us about the value creation out of Pakistan Enterprises in Technology.

 

[Itachi]

I don't know why all of the right wing, Pakistan hating type indians think

Pakistanis have inferiority complex

I have seen plenty of bobby Jindals in my life and no bobby Muhammad

Should I start making highly biased assumptions that indians suffer from inferiority complex?
and treat it like a fact

I genuinely don't know where this talking point is coming from, and am not angry at this phenomenon just amazed

it's so weird!!

Its due to actions of common Pakistani people and their victimize mentality. If it's not a rampant psychological scar in different level of strata, tell me one good reason why it exists and I'll consider to think on that route.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Yes, this must be the reason why most Indians taken on a Gora name like mick, Ron, Dave as soon as they get to western country and try their level best to mimic the westerners. I ve not seen more chumcageer ppl than indians.

Also at very first opportunity they are dying to escape from Mahan Bharat. All this must be stemming from the high self esteem that you are telling us about.

Well I have met Immy Khan, Faz Shah and other chumcageers trying to act like Black rappers with fake accents and trying to impress western girls.

What should I make of them ? Think that all people who come their country are same as them ?
Do you realise the myopic view you have of the world ?

 

[OMB]

Guys Stay on Topic, Not an India vs Pakistan thread

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

Which food and temple is only because of outside influence ?.. Taj is not the only building in India.
And CEOS of Zomato, PayTM, Infosys, TATA, Reliance, OYO Rooms, OLA etc. and there are millions more like them are born, living and thriving within India. I have named few companies here the list is very large.

Name a Pakistan homegrown Multi Billion Dollar Tech Company ? How many are there ?
Don't need ignorant replies, inform us about the value creation out of Pakistan Enterprises in Technology.

All the non-veg dishes.

And which indian temple is world famous master piece of architecture?
There are numerous examples of Persian inspired muslim architecture dotted all over India for example Fathepur Sikri, numerous tombs and mosques. And lastly you seem to ve understood the point abt foreign influence on the Hindi/Hindustani language.

As for the names of these indian companies, all you have listed are the bodyshops providing cheap Labour. There is “no” indigenously developed product or technology out of India. Nothing what so ever!

Dont need arrogant replies telling us how great India is in your limited view of the world.

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

When in Rome, be like Romans.

Its better to blend in the crowd adopting the social norms of that place (like US Pakistani) than trying to impose own social constructs to the local culture and disrupting it (like some British Pakistanis).

So much so for the claims about self esteem and being proud of who you are.

I ve worked with many Indians in the US and UK and majority seemed to ashamed of their cultural identity. Most try to speak in a fake accent and imitate goray in a cringeworthy manner.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

All the non-veg dishes.

And which indian temple is world famous master piece of architecture?
There are numerous examples of Persian inspired muslim architecture dotted all over India for example Fathepur Sikri, numerous tombs and mosques. And lastly you seem to ve understood the point abt foreign influence on the Hindi/Hindustani language.

As for the names of these indian companies, all you have listed are the bodyshops providing cheap Labour. There is “no” indigenously developed product or technology out of India. Nothing what so ever!

Dont need arrogant replies telling us how great India is in your limited view of the world.

Paytm is an Indian multinational e-commerce payment system and financial technology company,
So a Fintech Product.

Oyo Rooms, also known as Oyo Hotels & Homes, is an Indian hospitality chain of leased and franchised hotels, homes and living spaces.
So, a hotel booking company, Travel Product based software organisation

Finacle is the industry-leading digital banking solution suite from EdgeVerve Systems, a wholly owned product subsidiary of Infosys. Used by 94% of all large banks in the world.

Zomato, food delivery and restaurant booking.
BYJU, education app with billion dollar evaluation
Then, there are plenty such product based companies as well.

So, not Body Shops.

Temples,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konark_Sun_Temple : UNESCO World Heritage Site

https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/?search=India&order=country
There more such Temples famous for their Architecture.

Don't be an ignorant. Please come back with some facts, if you have any.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

All the non-veg dishes.

And which indian temple is world famous master piece of architecture?
There are numerous examples of Persian inspired muslim architecture dotted all over India for example Fathepur Sikri, numerous tombs and mosques. And lastly you seem to ve understood the point abt foreign influence on the Hindi/Hindustani language.
As for the names of these indian companies, all you have listed are the bodyshops providing cheap Labour. There is “no” indigenously developed product or technology out of India. Nothing what so ever!

Dont need arrogant replies telling us how great India is in your limited view of the world.

So you do agree that the famous Vegetarian foods like Dosa, Idli, Poori, Chana, Chole Bhatoore etc. originated within India, without any outside influence.

 

[Itachi]

So much so for the claims about self esteem and being proud of who you are.

I ve worked with many Indians in the US and UK and majority seemed to ashamed of their cultural identity. Most try to speak in a fake accent and imitate goray in a cringeworthy manner.

That's their problem. Why we'll take responsibility of NRIs?

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

Paytm is an Indian multinational e-commerce payment system and financial technology company,
So a Fintech Product.

Oyo Rooms, also known as Oyo Hotels & Homes, is an Indian hospitality chain of leased and franchised hotels, homes and living spaces.
So, a hotel booking company, Travel Product based software organisation

Finacle is the industry-leading digital banking solution suite from EdgeVerve Systems, a wholly owned product subsidiary of Infosys. Used by 94% of all large banks in the world.

Zomato, food delivery and restaurant booking.
BYJU, education app with billion dollar evaluation
Then, there are plenty such product based companies as well.

So, not Body Shops.

Temples,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konark_Sun_Temple : UNESCO World Heritage Site

https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/?search=India&order=country
There more such Temples famous for their Architecture.

Don't be an ignorant. Please come back with some facts, if you have any.

Paytm and Oyo rooms @ Lol, that’s all you got for your tall claims?

Sun temple? Not sure many in India itself would know about this famous gemstone of Architecture. I ve never heard about it before. All these things may be a marvellous achievement “in your eyes” but they fall way short in any international comparison. Even the South american Mayan temples are more famous that this.

When your attempt of proving the glory of india is as meagre as this, you might as well ve given up earlier on.

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

So you do agree that the famous Vegetarian foods like Dosa, Idli, Poori, Chana, Chole Bhatoore etc. originated within India, without any outside influence.

They are not famous and not many ppl outside india eat this idli stuff (bar the H1b holders from Andhra pradesh). I am of a north Indian background myself and i really dont like these Dosa and idli stuff.

And something like poori and chanay etc are not confined to Indian cuisine. Similar food is also eaten in the middle east (esp. chickpeas).

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Paytm and Oyo rooms @ Lol, that’s all you got for your tall claims?

Sun temple? Not sure many in India itself would know about this famous gemstone of Architecture. I ve never heard about it before. All these things may be a marvellous achievement “in your eyes” but they fall way short in any international comparison. Even the South american Mayan temples are more famous that this.

When your attempt of proving the glory of india is as meagre as this, you might as well ve given up earlier on.

See you are still avoiding the question?
How many 20 billion dollar tech companies like Paytm came from Pakistan?
And I am from Punjab but Idli and Dosa are pretty famous.

The definition of UNESCO heritage is recognising world famous architecture.

Try reading a bit, it really helps to critically analyse things.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

[MENTION=144052]Bi_Jamalo[/MENTION] The code of the USB, written by an Engineer who did his B.Tech in India, like me.
Hotmail, written by a guy from Sabeer Bhatia, another Engineer from India. Sold it to Microsoft for 400 Million.
Yahoo's software development centre has been in Bangalore since 90s, working on chat and email systems.

Digital vaccines: Developed based on fundamental neurocognitive computing and immunological modulation discoveries in pediatric and young adult populations, this sub field of digital therapeutics was invented by Bhargav Sri Prakash, Indian

Microwave Communication: The first public demonstration of microwave transmission was made by Jagadish Chandra Bose, in Calcutta, in 1895

Shearing Interferometer: Invented by M.V.R.K. Murty, a type of Lateral Shearing Interferometer utilises a laser source for measuring refractive index, Indian

Shampoo: The word shampoo in English is derived from Hindustani chāmpo (चाँपो [tʃãːpoː]),[62] and dates to 1762.[63] A variety of herbs and their extracts were used as shampoos since ancient times in India, evidence of early herbal shampoo have been discovered from Indus Valley Civilization site of Banawali dated to 2750-2500 BCE. You would be using one everyday.
Pseudomonas putida: Indian (Bengali) inventor and microbiologist Ananda Mohan Chakrabarty created a species of man made micro organism to break down crude oil.[79] He genetically engineered[80][81][82][83][84][85] a new species of Pseudomonas bacteria ("the oil-eating bacteria") in 1971,
Another Indian.

There are appreciable contributions from Pakistanis as well in Science and Technology.

But, to say that the whole country is a Body Shop is completely illiterate and illogical kind of thinking.
Grow your mind a bit, read some stuff.

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

See you are still avoiding the question?
How many 20 billion dollar tech companies like Paytm came from Pakistan?
And I am from Punjab but Idli and Dosa are pretty famous.

The definition of UNESCO heritage is recognising world famous architecture.

Try reading a bit, it really helps to critically analyse things.

Yes exactly being able to read is a blessing, so take a look at the criteria for Unesco world heritage sites:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Heritage_Site

It neither mean that its a marvellous architectural site nor it necessarily makes it a popular and well known site. Not many people outside (and inside) india are even aware of the existence of this Sun temple.

2) You may be eating idli and Dosa sitting in indian punjab but my point is that its not a popular food “outside” india.

3) i ve never claimed abt great achievements of Pakistan in the IT industry. Infact i agree that we ve underachieved for various reasons.
This is not to say that the pompous Chest thumping and arrogance by Indian trolls is justified because they ve managed to establish more bodyshops and call Centers.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Yes exactly being able to read is a blessing, so take a look at the criteria for Unesco world heritage sites:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Heritage_Site

It neither mean that its a marvellous architectural site nor it necessarily makes it a popular and well known site. Not many people outside (and inside) india are even aware of the existence of this Sun temple.

2) You may be eating idli and Dosa sitting in indian punjab but my point is that its not a popular food “outside” india.

3) i ve never claimed abt great achievements of Pakistan in the IT industry. Infact i agree that we ve underachieved for various reasons.
This is not to say that the pompous Chest thumping and arrogance by Indian trolls is justified because they ve managed to establish more bodyshops and call Centers.

A World Heritage Site may signify a remarkable accomplishment of humanity, and serve as evidence of our intellectual history on the planet.
Thank you this link.. . Looks like you can read.

Idli and Dosa are popular and available all over UK/USA/Europe/Australia/NZ. I have travelled 58 countries and most of the people I have met have tried it once. I cannot prove this in terms of measurable facts, so sorry for that.

I have already explained the told you about the Software Product based companies and products being developed and sold within India, from financial to travel aggregation to medical advancements. So that is 150 Billion dollar Chest Thumping Worthy.

Again, Thanks for pointing out the intellectual achievements of Indians in Architecture, Science and Technology.

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

A World Heritage Site may signify a remarkable accomplishment of humanity, and serve as evidence of our intellectual history on the planet.
Thank you this link.. . Looks like you can read.

Idli and Dosa are popular and available all over UK/USA/Europe/Australia/NZ. I have travelled 58 countries and most of the people I have met have tried it once. I cannot prove this in terms of measurable facts, so sorry for that.

I have already explained the told you about the Software Product based companies and products being developed and sold within India, from financial to travel aggregation to medical advancements. So that is 150 Billion dollar Chest Thumping Worthy.

Again, Thanks for pointing out the intellectual achievements of Indians in Architecture, Science and Technology.

Obviously with a population of 1 billion+ and continued existence for this long, there will be some individuals who ve made some contributions to science but discovering shampoo isn’t a world shaking achievement. Hence your meagre list again proves the point abt underachievement by Indians. If you are really that proud of Call centers and IT bodyshops, that’s another matter.

As for the world heritage site: Lol @ your attempt on the word spiel. But despite your acrobatics India doesn’t really have anything major and world known other than Taj Mahal and a few buildings created during the muslim rule and with Foreign influence.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Obviously with a population of 1 billion+ and continued existence for this long, there will be some individuals who ve made some contributions to science but discovering shampoo isn’t a world shaking achievement. Hence your meagre list again proves the point abt underachievement by Indians. If you are really that proud of Call centers and IT bodyshops, that’s another matter.

As for the world heritage site: Lol @ your attempt on the word spiel. But despite your acrobatics India doesn’t really have anything major and world known other than Taj Mahal and a few buildings created during the muslim rule and with Foreign influence.

Good. You progressed from none to some contribution in Science and Technology, all Body Shops to some Body shops.

That is a progress made, and some growth for your mind.

I did not write that description, It was in the link you read and provided, and i used the exact statement.. There are temples dated back to 1300 BCE in that list. Do read that list, again.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Obviously with a population of 1 billion+ and continued existence for this long, there will be some individuals who ve made some contributions to science but discovering shampoo isn’t a world shaking achievement. Hence your meagre list again proves the point abt underachievement by Indians. If you are really that proud of Call centers and IT bodyshops, that’s another matter.

As for the world heritage site: Lol @ your attempt on the word spiel. But despite your acrobatics India doesn’t really have anything major and world known other than Taj Mahal and a few buildings created during the muslim rule and with Foreign influence.

It seems you cannot count or ignore or chose to count.
Let me make it super easy for you :

30 Heritage Sites from UNESCO in India :

16/30 are Hindu and Pre-Mughal Sites
7/30 are Mughal Period.
2/30 is British Era.

Rest are natural phenomenon like National Parks/Ghats.

16 > 7 right ?
and 16 > 7 + 2 = 9 as well..

So, that is Major Heritage Sites built before Mughals. I enjoyed visiting the Mughal sites and all other places, the Churches and Temples... all are beautiful and wonderful pieces of Architecture,
in my India.

 

[kaayal]

Paytm and Oyo rooms @ Lol, that’s all you got for your tall claims?

Sun temple? Not sure many in India itself would know about this famous gemstone of Architecture. I ve never heard about it before. All these things may be a marvellous achievement “in your eyes” but they fall way short in any international comparison. Even the South american Mayan temples are more famous that this.

When your attempt of proving the glory of india is as meagre as this, you might as well ve given up earlier on.

Well, the Temples here are very famous and almost all Indian knows it too. That’s accounts to nearly 1 billion. When we have enough people here itself to make revenue from tourism, why would we bother about validation from outside people?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Why do they need provide a value to world ? They provide value to Indians first and foremost.
Science and Technology helps the country first, and then the world.

Culture and aspects of tourism, related to it, help the economy. Why do people travel to European countries to see the old buildings, and experience the culture. Well, India has spiritual tourism.

Diversity and various types of experience in food, well they provide value to my taste buds at least, that is good enough from me.
From Mumbais Vada Pav to Bangalores Sambhar, from Punjabs Lassi to Coconut water of Kerala.

At the end, All I can say that India is an experience of Life, The ups and downs, the abjectness of despair to the plethora of richness. I am proud o all things that came along with this experience, good or bad.

Well it is a good metric to judge a country by what value they provide to the rest of the world as that is proof in itself as to the living standard of that country. It's fine that you are proud of your country, and I commend it, but I see you yourself are living in Australia. That in itself suggests that Australia has something that India still lacks.

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

It seems you cannot count or ignore or chose to count.
Let me make it super easy for you :

30 Heritage Sites from UNESCO in India :

16/30 are Hindu and Pre-Mughal Sites
7/30 are Mughal Period.
2/30 is British Era.

Rest are natural phenomenon like National Parks/Ghats.

16 > 7 right ?
and 16 > 7 + 2 = 9 as well..

So, that is Major Heritage Sites built before Mughals. I enjoyed visiting the Mughal sites and all other places, the Churches and Temples... all are beautiful and wonderful pieces of Architecture,
in my India.

As i said, UNESCO world heritage site designation doesn’t really mean much in terms of popularity and being an admirable architectural site. Italy and Spain each have more than thrice Unesco world heritage sites compared to India (despite being much much smaller in size and population).

Just google “world famous temples” and see how many Indian temples come up in that list. There are magnificent and huge temples in Japan, Cambodia and even Sri Lanka that you will find on many travel website & brochures. Whenever you look for India, you know which image is most commonly used.

 

[Itachi]

As i said, UNESCO world heritage site designation doesn’t really mean much in terms of popularity and being an admirable architectural site. Italy and Spain each have more than thrice Unesco world heritage sites compared to India (despite being much much smaller in size and population).

Just google “world famous temples” and see how many Indian temples come up in that list. There are magnificent and huge temples in Japan, Cambodia and even Sri Lanka that you will find on many travel website & brochures. Whenever you look for India, you know which image is most commonly used.

SEO keeps track of what you search and the result isn't same for every user. Delete all chrome data, change your ip and location, then check. You'll see different results.

Its very naive to ask Google considering you haven't taken account of SEO optimizations.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

As i said, UNESCO world heritage site designation doesn’t really mean much in terms of popularity and being an admirable architectural site. Italy and Spain each have more than thrice Unesco world heritage sites compared to India (despite being much much smaller in size and population).

Just google “world famous temples” and see how many Indian temples come up in that list. There are magnificent and huge temples in Japan, Cambodia and even Sri Lanka that you will find on many travel website & brochures. Whenever you look for India, you know which image is most commonly used.

SEO keeps track of what you search and the result isn't same for every user. Delete all chrome data, change your ip and location, then check. You'll see different results.

Its very naive to ask Google considering you haven't taken account of SEO optimizations.

When I search on my macbook, without clearing cookies and changing IP address, in Melbourne, Australia,
for the exact term "world famous temples".. i get the below list :

1. Angkor Wat : Originally constructed as a personal mausoleum for the Khmer King Suryavarman II, dedicated to Vishnu in the early 12th century. So built by and Indian king.

2. Kinkaku-ji : Japanese Budhist temple.

3. Borobudur: Built in the 7th century during the reign of the Sailendra Dynasty(Indian Dynasty), which ruled India as well Khmer.

4. Wat Rong Khun : Built by Thai people, it is the modern and not ancient.

5.Shwedagon Pagoda : According to tradition, the Shwedagon Pagoda was constructed more than 2,600 years ago by the Mon King and people, which would make it the oldest Buddhist stupa in the world.

6. Lotus Temple : New Delhi. Built my Modern Indians.

7.Mahabodhi Temple : Extension of Bodhi Tree, built in 589 BCE and extended in India

8. The Gawdawpalin Temple (Burmese: ကန်တော့ပလ္လင်ဘုရား, IPA: [ɡɔ́dɔ̰pəlɪ̀ɰ̃ pʰəjá]) is a Buddhist temple located in Bagan, Myanmar. Construction of the pagoda began in 1203 during the reign of Sithu I (1174–1211).

Even if i ignore the Buddhist connection, 3 out of 8 built and have an Indian connection, and ancient Indian civilisation, ancient Indian Kings before the Mughal and British era.
Rest most of the famous temples are Buddhist connection, and Combodia and Java and Sri Lanka were Indian kingdoms at various times of history from 3rd Century BCE uptil 13 Century. It is a proven historical fact, Read about it.

Now, you are trying to change goal post.

You had clearly and vociferously pointed out in your previous posts that majority of sites were built my Mughals and British.
This was in response to that dig/jibe, which is obviously completely bogus, and derived without any facts.

I have proven it to you that major architectural sites and culture of India is derived from that period, with significant temples and heritage sites we can point to, built by Indians.
Even, modern Indians have built and maintained Lotus temple, a UNESCO heritage site.

Please prove me wrong, with data and facts, if you can.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I don't know why all of the right wing, Pakistan hating type indians think

Pakistanis have inferiority complex

I have seen plenty of bobby Jindals in my life and no bobby Muhammad

Should I start making highly biased assumptions that indians suffer from inferiority complex?
and treat it like a fact

I genuinely don't know where this talking point is coming from, and am not angry at this phenomenon just amazed

it's so weird!!

Bobby is a very common indian name. There is a famous movie too.

You mistake India with Hindu only.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Well it is a good metric to judge a country by what value they provide to the rest of the world as that is proof in itself as to the living standard of that country. It's fine that you are proud of your country, and I commend it, but I see you yourself are living in Australia. That in itself suggests that Australia has something that India still lacks.

No that was not the original question. You asked what we are proud of. I simply replied to that.

Coming to that, you are also in Britain and identify as British Pakistan, yet come to a Pakistani Forum to defend anything Pakistani. I assume you were not born in Pakistan, apologies if that is wrong.

I was born in India, have lived there for first 20 years of my life, and then due to the kind of work i do in my professional life, it has taken me to 58 countries across the world and counting.

So, it seems that quiet ironic that being an immigrant/descendant of immigrant yourself, you are attacking me for choosing to explore the wide world and travel as much as possible outside India, before I go back to my roots as none of the whole wide world is my final destination.

But, to clarify, In my personal special scenario. There is nothing that India lacks and I am fully proud of being born there and having lived there.

I am outside India due to a great life changing work opportunity, which could have been anywhere(even within India), but is circumstantial that is it currently in Australia. Once I achieve what i want out of this, it will be next country, can be Britain, can be USA or might as well be India.

But, final destination, which I am working towards, is my Home Town, Hoshiarpur, Punjab.

 

[Bigboii]

Bobby is a very common indian name. There is a famous movie too.

You mistake India with Hindu only.

Research on Bobby Jindal and see what he represents to desi's in the US

He is universally hated by all the desi's for trying his best to hide his Indian heritage

That's what bobby jindal represents to Desi's in US

Should I start calling all Indians especially NRI's that they're suffering from identity crisis? Just because Bobby Jindal is like that, isn't that unfair?

And I love how you responded to the quote "don't know why all of the right wing, Pakistan hating type indians think"

 

[Bigboii]

Its due to actions of common Pakistani people and their victimize mentality. If it's not a rampant psychological scar in different level of strata, tell me one good reason why it exists and I'll consider to think on that route.

So self victimisation=identity crisis?

I can name you multiple countries even successful one with just as much victimisation if not more

Are they also suffering from identity crisis?

And posters have explained the pakistani situation so MANY times and how it is the identity not a crisis but y'all keep on repeating the same thing over and over again...

 

[PakLFC]

You quoted my word, then disagreed while writing a new post and exactly followed the same hypocritic pattern as I've wrote before.

In all your posts,

If Indian does "X" , it's western complex.

If Pakistani does it, though "x" act is western influence, Pakistani people are free from it.

(x = any action attributed to western culture)

--------

You talked about Pakistani people not blaming others foe their fortune but then later on went to attribute the victimized mentality of the people even now to russian invasion of Afghanistan.

--------

The problem is, you are also institutionalized so you won't realize where the double standards is. Jinnah was your hero yet, you will criticize others for same actions yet you will hail him high.

If you are young around 20s, then it's ok because this is the time when people starts to question about the system and tries to come out from stagnant thought process.

If you are older, then being institutionalized will always give you a biased perspective and will involve hypocrisy.

Your posts are becoming increasingly nonsensical and meaningless. You say Pak suffers from some victim mentality then I tell you of India's obsession with Pak and how it blames all it's problems on Pak. Even your Goswami was heavily fined for brining in Pakistan on a debate that had nothing to do with us..

Now you are associating Jinnah wearing western suits or Muslim's drinking liquor as having western values like I am Indian people of a western complex. Many Pakistanis have much more of an Arab complex then an American or western one. Don't fight what is so obvious instead accept it thereby keeping your dignity. Oh I see so i should say that the war in Afghanistan has had no effect on Pakistan! That when your neighbour's home is on fire then it doesn't effect you, nothing could be further then the truth. To say the war's in Afghanistan has effected Pak is an open secret not a victim mentality at all.

What system are you talking about now? Wearing pants, shirts or ties does not westernise a person. Pak programmes are mostly in Urdu where as Indian ones are in English even when most of your compatriots do not even have proper understanding of the language! No, you just have to tell the world how we excel at the world's most popular language! You have to tell the world that our Bollywood has become even more westernised then your Hollywood. That we have caught on with micro mini's and use skin whitening creams to look like westerners. Jinnah did not do all that.

You say Pak suffers from some victim mentality then i remind you how India blames Pak for all it's problems. It is Pak that hardly blames India for it's internal issues. I am afraid you are making no sense whatsoever!

 

[PakLFC]

A Jaikishan becomes Jackie Shroff and his son is Tiger! I never knew these were Hindu or Indian names! No western complex at all, right??

 

[Itachi]

Your posts are becoming increasingly nonsensical and meaningless. You say Pak suffers from some victim mentality then I tell you of India's obsession with Pak and how it blames all it's problems on Pak. Even your Goswami was heavily fined for brining in Pakistan on a debate that had nothing to do with us..

Now you are associating Jinnah wearing western suits or Muslim's drinking liquor as having western values like I am Indian people of a western complex. Many Pakistanis have much more of an Arab complex then an American or western one. Don't fight what is so obvious instead accept it thereby keeping your dignity. Oh I see so i should say that the war in Afghanistan has had no effect on Pakistan! That when your neighbour's home is on fire then it doesn't effect you, nothing could be further then the truth. To say the war's in Afghanistan has effected Pak is an open secret not a victim mentality at all.

What system are you talking about now? Wearing pants, shirts or ties does not westernise a person. Pak programmes are mostly in Urdu where as Indian ones are in English even when most of your compatriots do not even have proper understanding of the language! No, you just have to tell the world how we excel at the world's most popular language! You have to tell the world that our Bollywood has become even more westernised then your Hollywood. That we have caught on with micro mini's and use skin whitening creams to look like westerners. Jinnah did not do all that.

You say Pak suffers from some victim mentality then i remind you how India blames Pak for all it's problems. It is Pak that hardly blames India for it's internal issues. I am afraid you are making no sense whatsoever!

You mentioned jinnah but avoided any discussion regarding it.

Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan, adopted the values of western culture. Yes or no?

 

[PakLFC]

You mentioned jinnah but avoided any discussion regarding it.

Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan, adopted the values of western culture. Yes or no?

What in your opinion is western culture? Jinnah was no more westernised then Gandhi. Jinnah spoke both English and Urdu. He wore both English suits and Sherwani-Churidar. He did not use and nicknames becoming a James from Jinnah. He did not change his religion or anything like that. Are you saying dressing in western attire and consuming alcohol westernizes a person?

 

[Itachi]

What in your opinion is western culture? Jinnah was no more westernised then Gandhi. Jinnah spoke both English and Urdu. He wore both English suits and Sherwani-Churidar. He did not use and nicknames becoming a James from Jinnah. He did not change his religion or anything like that. Are you saying dressing in western attire and consuming alcohol westernizes a person?

You haven't answered my question and evading it.

Here I ask again.

Mr. Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan, adopted the western values or not?

 

[PakLFC]

You haven't answered my question and evading it.

Here I ask again.

Mr. Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan, adopted the western values or not?

There is nothing to answer. Your obsession with just one Mr Jinnah does not negate what India has become! What is "western values" in your opinion first tell me that? Even most Bollywood movies have English titles now, no complex right?? Nice try

 

[PakLFC]

Not to forget that American terms like mom, dude, buddy and many more have become regular words of Indian-English grammar. Watch any recent Bollywood movie and all the dancers are white! By comparison Jinnah saheb only wore a western suit and spoke English and Urdu, there is no comparison at all. Indian's wrote the book on inferiority complex so ashamed are they off their own culture, Shah se zyaada Shah ke wafadaar. At least some honest Indian's who accept this are trying to correct their image by making films like "Padmavati". I guess they are fed up seeing Pakistanis like me mock them.

Quaid Jinnah passed away over 70 years back!

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Does this negate the Love Jihad laws? Or if a non Muslim girl converts to Islam in order to marry a Muslim guy, the guy will still go to jail?

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

You haven't answered my question and evading it.

Here I ask again.

Mr. Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan, adopted the western values or not?

So what?

Jinnah was one individual in British India 70 years ago. How is he representing the ordinary overseas Pakistanis in 2021?

Similiarly, the aadha nunga, dhoti wearing Gandhi is not a representative of common NRIs in 2021.

Leave your flawed logic aside and move on with the actual discussion, if you ve anything to say.

 

[PakLFC]

It is okay if an Indian cricketer can't speak his own language Hindi as long as he is fluent in the white man's language, English! All pre and after match interviews in the IPL are conducted in English even if most Indian viewers don't understand it. At least Pak cricketers are true to our identity and the Pak population. Make white cricketers learn and respect Urdu. To Indian people having good English means intelligence.

 

[PakLFC]

Free people my foot Indian's are the greatest mental slaves of the west without even realising it. They are now having kid's outside wedlock and propagating homosexuality as freedom of expression so to be more acceptable to the west. Their actors imitate the dance moves of a Michael Jackson and most of their film's are Hollywood remakes. The flimsy justification they put up is Quaid Jinnah too dressed in western attire! Just go back to the 1960's or 1970's to see how Indian people back then were true to their culture and background.

 

[IndoorCricket]

Not to forget that American terms like mom, dude, buddy and many more have become regular words of Indian-English grammar. Watch any recent Bollywood movie and all the dancers are white! By comparison Jinnah saheb only wore a western suit and spoke English and Urdu, there is no comparison at all. Indian's wrote the book on inferiority complex so ashamed are they off their own culture, Shah se zyaada Shah ke wafadaar. At least some honest Indian's who accept this are trying to correct their image by making films like "Padmavati". I guess they are fed up seeing Pakistanis like me mock them.

Quaid Jinnah passed away over 70 years back!

Bollywood doesn't represent India. They are stuck in colonial hangover and imitating anything western. India is a nation of 1.3 billion people. We have many regional film industries in South who don't watch Hindi movies at all. They are some of the best that India produce. But unfortunately Bollywood crap is what gets popularized somehow.

 

[PakLFC]

Bollywood doesn't represent India. They are stuck in colonial hangover and imitating anything western. India is a nation of 1.3 billion people. We have many regional film industries in South who don't watch Hindi movies at all. They are some of the best that India produce. But unfortunately Bollywood crap is what gets popularized somehow.

But you see cinema influences people's behaviour more then anything else. Consequently, when people watch these films they want to be like their heroes mimicking the message shown on screen. Only solution is for India to return to it's original conservative and ancient roots. Your other film industries are no way near as popular as Bollywood which is why even actors from the South often work in them. Bollywood is one of your largest exports, unfortunately. Pak generally has held on much better to our culture then India has. I am glad to see some Indian period films now based on what they consider as historical facts.

 

[IndoorCricket]

But you see cinema influences people's behaviour more then anything else. Consequently, when people watch these films they want to be like their heroes mimicking the message shown on screen. Only solution is for India to return to it's original conservative and ancient roots. Your other film industries are no way near as popular as Bollywood which is why even actors from the South often work in them. Bollywood is one of your largest exports, unfortunately. Pak generally has held on much better to our culture then India has. I am glad to see some Indian period films now based on what they consider as historical facts.

70 years of Bollywood dominance cant be erased overnight. But trust me many people are rejecting the crap that is being produces in b'wood. Leave facts and historical evidences. It is a industry devoid of creativity. With the rise of OTT platforms and people avoiding theaters many regional industries are being noticed now a days.