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Peter Moores commits to Nottinghamshire as Head Coach for the next three years

b.lesner

b.lesner

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Peter Moores, ex Worcestershire, Sussex, Lancashire & Orange Free State FC player & former coach of Lancashire, England ‘A’ & England team is the one likely to take over as Pakistan’s head coach.
 
This is the guy who fell out with KP.
 
Varun said:
This is the guy who fell out with KP.
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Yes after which he was removed by ECB in 2007 or 2009 i don't remember

He also was coach during 2015 WC for England around that time so not a good move this could backfire badly
 
b.lesner said:
Yes after which he was removed by ECB in 2007 or 2009 i don't remember

He also was coach during 2015 WC for England around that time so not a good move this could backfire badly
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What matters is the professional experience. Pakistan need someone who has the professional experience as head coach. Not sure if he is the best available but he is a major, major upgrade to MisWaq
 
A qualified and experienced coach. Beggars can't be choosers and no one can disagree that he is a massive upgrade over Misbah who coached Pakistan without any relevant experience and with insufficient/no qualifications.

A certain individual with pro-Pakistani bias will be disappointed if Pakistan opt for an overseas coach. He has previously vouched for Mohsin Khan but such is toxicity among certain Pakistan fans.
 
Rana said:
What matters is the professional experience. Pakistan need someone who has the professional experience as head coach. Not sure if he is the best available but he is a major, major upgrade to MisWaq
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need to have Mike Hesson , Simon katich , Mahela , Gillespie etc or if no one comes just have any level 4 Australian or English coach with 2 year experiance in County or Shield cricket
 
Didn't he have a disastrous 2015 world cup with England?

Just because he is gora
 
None of these guys mentioned have any interest in coming to Pakistan. Why would Mahela sacrifice his IPL links for Pakistan. Makes no sense at all.
 
b.lesner said:
need to have Mike Hesson , Simon katich , Mahela , Gillespie etc or if no one comes just have any level 4 Australian or English coach with 2 year experiance in County or Shield cricket
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No IPL coach will ever come to Pakistan cricket. The money that they pay for 1.5 months of cricket is a lot more than 12 months pays
 
A big time micromanager, more suited to developing individual players.

However beggars can't be choosers.
 
Currently under contract at Notts.

Let's see......
 
Not perfect, but has the skills, experience and qualifications that both Misbah and Waqar lack.
 
Sharing my views regarding Peter Moores from another thread:

Titan24 said:
Interesting. Peter Moores is really highly rated in English cricket with a good record in terms performances and player development at different levels. He was the man who supposedly laid or tried to lay the foundations of the Eng whiteball setup, unfortunately the results didnÂ’t come in during his time.

He was the one under whom Morgan became captain, Alex Hales debuted and gave much more opportunities to Moen Ali, Chris Woakes, Buttler and Stokes who at that point of time were still developing. Further in his last match as Head Coach Adil Rashid who was forgotten for 6 years after debut in 2009 came back, debuted Jason Roy, Mark Wood and David Willey in that same last match vs Ireland after which he was sacked.

Many players were unhappy with his sacking and he is still rated highly by many including James Anderson. He was the one under whom Stuart Broad debuted as well and Anderson started getting regular opportunities.

Moores first tenure with Eng team from 2007 to 09 ended with a conflict with Pietorson (I am a fan but, he wasnt an easy player to handle for many) and in his second tenure he was brought in almost just an year before the 2015 WC and then removed soon afterwards.

He is rated in cricket circles for his understanding of the game. So if he is considered it will have the potential to be a good decision.
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http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...=11281358&highlight=Peter+moores#post11281358

Worth adding that even recently Haseeb Hameed gave a big credit to Peter Moores for his resurgence.
 
No IPL related coach will take the job, so you can rule out any up and coming coaches or any of the modern bunch.

Peter moores would be a safe appointment, we need someone to add a bit more professionalism to this setup for now lets forget about tittles and this and that lets not forget he is higly rated amongst some of the current england odi squad s if he can get the ball rolling thats all we can ask for.

Aprt from that its the usual suspects, flower brothers , saqi , razzaq . Out of all the domestic bunch i wouldnt mind seeing Mohammed Akram in the setup , i cant remember who it was now but a international pro actually said mohammed akram was one of the best coaches he worked with might have been darren sammy.
 
I truly hope it’s not Peter Moore’s, I’d rather have Jason Gilliespie or wait after the WT20 and get Mickey Arthur back.
 
Moores isn't gonna be a great choice either considering his past record. Fallout wd KP plus england disastrous campaign in 2015 cwc. At best i'd rather have arthur back in the mix.
 
Varun said:
This is the guy who fell out with KP.
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Anyone can fell out with KP , not an easy player to handle for many coaches.

I’m only concerned about the age , I think he is very old tbh to come and coach Pakistan

Apart from that he is such a professional coach who has a lot of coaching experience and highly rated by many of them in the current English players.
 
Yikes. Mr. data had a pretty unceremonious departure as England head-coach. And alot of people put the blame for England's outdated ODI mindset (that saw them crash out of the 2015 World Cup) on him.

Contrary to what certain posters are saying here though, there is alot to be gained for a foreign coach by coaching Pakistan. Keeping the security aspect and life away from family aside, Pakistan is still a major cricketing team and certainly a more challenging task than coaching a county side. And like the best players, I believe the best coaches also want to be challenged so they can get a chance to prove their mettle.

Whether or not these rumors end up being true or not, Moores or really any foreign coach is better than a local one.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Yikes. Mr. data had a pretty unceremonious departure as England head-coach. And alot of people put the blame for England's outdated ODI mindset (that saw them crash out of the 2015 World Cup) on him.
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To be honest he was brought in just an year before WC and he took the beginning steps towards modern ODI cricket for Eng (leadership was changed under his tenure with Morgan taking charge, brought in and tried a lot of players who became vital cogs post him) as I mentioned in my post and that is why ECB brought him in however, one year was too less of a time to deliver much.
 
Moores has signally failed as an international coach twice, he'll be a laughable choice for a team such as Pakistan. The players would start briefing the media against him within a month or so of his appointment.

Having said that, no coach is going to materially change the fortunes of the Pakistan team. Pakistan is probably the only country in the world where the fans have this mystifying belief in the messiah-type characteristics of a coach. It betrays a lack of understanding of the role of a coach.
 
Titan24 said:
To be honest he was brought in just an year before WC and he took the beginning steps towards modern ODI cricket for Eng (leadership was changed under his tenure with Morgan taking charge, brought in and tried a lot of players who became vital cogs post him) as I mentioned in my post and that is why ECB brought him in however, one year was too less of a time to deliver much.
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Agreed. It was another case of making the coach the scapegoat, which is far too common here in Pakistan. That said, I do believe he had a role to play in England's outdated ODI mindset. And he was backing/selecting certain players who should not have been in the team. His obsession with "data" didn't endear him to the media either. Who used those statements to make a mockery of him and discredit him. All in all, not a bad coach, but not a great coach either.

To blame him completely for England's limited-overs problems though was quite unfair.
 
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Last Monetarist said:
Moores has signally failed as an international coach twice, he'll be a laughable choice for a team such as Pakistan. The players would start briefing the media against him within a month or so of his appointment.

Having said that, no coach is going to materially change the fortunes of the Pakistan team. Pakistan is probably the only country in the world where the fans have this mystifying belief in the messiah-type characteristics of a coach. It betrays a lack of understanding of the role of a coach.
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This stems from the Woolmer era, he was a mystical figure that helped transform the team. Granted, there were much better players available at his disposal but he had a big part to play.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
And he was backing/selecting certain players who should not have been in the team. His obsession with "data" didn't endear him to the media either. Who used those statements to make a mockery of him and discredit him. All in all, not a bad coach, but not a great coach either.
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Valid points. I think it was difficult to change the LOI mindset of Eng cricket which was there since the advent of white ball cricket and even if Moores had complete authority still taking a huge gulp of not involving guys like Anderson, Bell in WC 2015 when they were regular whiteball players uptil 2014 when Moores joined would have required a lot of guts. So I guess he tried to make a combination of some of young modern day whiteball cricketers along with some regulars from that time and the results weren't great.

His handling of media after the shocker the whole Eng setup got after group stage exit on WC 2015 further increased the noise of his exit.

He naturally did make some mistakes as well. Though the position he was put in to do all the modern day restructuring in one year and then try to win the world cup would have had better of most coaches around. Bayliss on the other hand got full 4 years leading upto WC and he did a wonderful job.

While his results with Eng in couple of very short stints weren't breathtaking but, his reputation amongst players who have played under him, the way he is rated in Eng cricket gives some hope along with the fact that he would have naturally evolved as well further as a coach as his stints with different county teams including Nottinghamshire suggest.

Worth mentioning that along with many other players even Root credited Peter Moores in 2015 when he got player of the year award mentioning he got the best out of him. He worked with even Joe Root last year when he was preparing for WI home series and Root opted for Nottingham as his base. He have had similar contributions in the careers of quite a few currently active Eng players and must be many more at domestic level.

So I personally think if few things align he can potentially be a decent option. In the end its difficult to predict what the future will hold but, his overall CV, reputation amongst players, as well as in the cricket circle gives an indication that his small stints with Eng at international level might not be telling the complete picture.
 
How were his tactics and selection for Test cricket? That's all I'm interested in.
 
What is the package the PCB will offer him? $250,000?

Only a gora coach with no IPL prospects will agree to coach Pakistan for a measly price
 
HappyWarsFan said:
How were his tactics and selection for Test cricket? That's all I'm interested in.
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Results under Moores:

2007 - beat a weak West Indies at home; lost a test series to India in England for the first time in 21 years

2007-08 - lost away to Sri Lanka; beat New Zealand 2-1

2008 - beat New Zealand at home; lost to South Africa

2008-09 - lost to India and sacked

2014 - lost to Sri Lanka at home; beat India

2015 - drew 1-1 with the West Indies away and sacked

He was horrible, the test team was disjointed in both tenures.
 
Moores is not the right coach for Pakistan. Moores needs right set up to work , he is good at working with individual players and developing them.

Pakistan need to get there set up right to get any kind of benefit out of Moores.
 
Moores is a good player developer but is he a good strategist? We might be ending up with Mickey Arthur 2.0 who may work well with youngsters but lose the big picture plot.
 
Justcrazy said:
Moores is not the right coach for Pakistan. Moores needs right set up to work , he is good at working with individual players and developing them.

Pakistan need to get there set up right to get any kind of benefit out of Moores.
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Moores will be brilliant for a position leading the Academy and working with young players on their technique, but he is too rigid when it comes to man-management and tactics to be able to succeed as an international coach.

He understood this himself when he was sacked from England a second time, which is why I doubt he'll be prepared to jump into the fish tank that is Pakistan cricket.
 
Many times fans on here said "anyone but misbah"..well you got your wish. Whoever comes we just have to be happy with it.
 
Last Monetarist said:
Moores will be brilliant for a position leading the Academy and working with young players on their technique, but he is too rigid when it comes to man-management and tactics to be able to succeed as an international coach.

He understood this himself when he was sacked from England a second time, which is why I doubt he'll be prepared to jump into the fish tank that is Pakistan cricket.
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I think it will be better to know which top coaches are actually interested in taking this job. We can say big random names, but those are not practical.
 
Pakistan should make Darren Sammy the coach on a short term contract until after the world cup.

He knows Pakistani cricket, knows the players, is willing to work in the country and has won two T20 WC's.

He is the man for a short term assignment
 
I don't think he would be as bad as Misbah & Waqar. I don't exactly hate this appointment but also think the Pakistan media won't be happy with this appointment, if it were to happen.
 
offstump said:
This stems from the Woolmer era, he was a mystical figure that helped transform the team. Granted, there were much better players available at his disposal but he had a big part to play.
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I don’t think it does (re. Woolmer era).

Post 2000 / 2005 when the role of coaches started coming into limelight the blame started shifting. In the bygone eras it used to be about selection and captaincy.

When the team does poorly people need someone to point fingers at. In modern day cricket it is often the coach is first to take the sack.
 
Titan24 said:
Valid points. I think it was difficult to change the LOI mindset of Eng cricket which was there since the advent of white ball cricket and even if Moores had complete authority still taking a huge gulp of not involving guys like Anderson, Bell in WC 2015 when they were regular whiteball players uptil 2014 when Moores joined would have required a lot of guts. So I guess he tried to make a combination of some of young modern day whiteball cricketers along with some regulars from that time and the results weren't great.

His handling of media after the shocker the whole Eng setup got after group stage exit on WC 2015 further increased the noise of his exit.

He naturally did make some mistakes as well. Though the position he was put in to do all the modern day restructuring in one year and then try to win the world cup would have had better of most coaches around. Bayliss on the other hand got full 4 years leading upto WC and he did a wonderful job.

While his results with Eng in couple of very short stints weren't breathtaking but, his reputation amongst players who have played under him, the way he is rated in Eng cricket gives some hope along with the fact that he would have naturally evolved as well further as a coach as his stints with different county teams including Nottinghamshire suggest.

Worth mentioning that along with many other players even Root credited Peter Moores in 2015 when he got player of the year award mentioning he got the best out of him. He worked with even Joe Root last year when he was preparing for WI home series and Root opted for Nottingham as his base. He have had similar contributions in the careers of quite a few currently active Eng players and must be many more at domestic level.

So I personally think if few things align he can potentially be a decent option. In the end its difficult to predict what the future will hold but, his overall CV, reputation amongst players, as well as in the cricket circle gives an indication that his small stints with Eng at international level might not be telling the complete picture.
Click to expand...

Good points. All of which I agree with. And most of all, I agree with the point that he was given very less time to prove himself and make an already underperforming side suddenly turn around, which was an unrealistic expectation to begin with. Especially when he was not even the selector...something that has completely changed now with the coach being the selector too.

He's worth a try in my book. Pakistan could certainly do much, much worse with local coaches.
 
This will be a massive upgrade from Misbah for sure , the only Pakistani I would like to work alongside him would be Mo Akram
 
We will win because Babar and Riz play well as batters and we will lose when they don't score. Moral of the story-coaches make little or no difference.
 
I think there is a direct correlation between in-fighting / factionalism in sub continental teams and foreign coaches. Something for PCB to think about
 
Rana said:
What matters is the professional experience. Pakistan need someone who has the professional experience as head coach. Not sure if he is the best available but he is a major, major upgrade to MisWaq
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Absolutely , glad to see someone with impressive CV, experience and professionalism expected to join Pak team as a coach. There is sometime a communication issue with primary school drop outs Pakistani players but foreign coaches come without any baggage and they mean professionalism . Hope jokers like Razzaq will have no involvement with the team
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Pakistan should make Darren Sammy the coach on a short term contract until after the world cup.

He knows Pakistani cricket, knows the players, is willing to work in the country and has won two T20 WC's.

He is the man for a short term assignment
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Good idea, would be perfect on short term basis .
 
Peter Moores will bring what most of the pseudo analysts here crave for, Data Driven Decision Making.
The ex-Pakistan cricketers and journalists will have a go at him everyday since results will not come immediately.
 
Always struck me as a guy who would do better in background roles without too much pressure, the Pakistani coach role is more or less the opposite.
 
hoshiarpurexpress said:
The ex-Pakistan cricketers and journalists will have a go at him everyday since results will not come immediately.
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Chief selector Md. Wasim gets taunted so much for just appearing with a laptop in his media interactions. Peter Moores better have a thick skin if takes up the job.
 
These kind of guys won't work with Pakistan. You need someone who has a little emotion and isn't robotic.

That said, I'd love Razzaq to be coach just for the pre Ind-Pak contests. Those press conferences will turn out legendary :asif
 
Where you get this news? Not sure its another PCB's stunt to keep fans excited.
 
Titan24 said:
Sharing my views regarding Peter Moores from another thread:



http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...=11281358&highlight=Peter+moores#post11281358

Worth adding that even recently Haseeb Hameed gave a big credit to Peter Moores for his resurgence.
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Fantastic post. Legend.

I personally want the GOAT Caretaker Intikhab Alam to come in for the T20 WC campaign, and Moores can take this position up afterwards. It would mean less pressure on Moores to deliver immediately and with :inti at the help, it could also mean one more silverware for Pakistan. :ronaldo
 
Apparently, Peter Moores will be the next coach for Karachi Kings.

PCB can’t even attract mediocre coaches now, lol.
 
YousafTheBeast said:
Apparently, Peter Moores will be the next coach for Karachi Kings.

PCB can’t even attract mediocre coaches now, lol.
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Source?

Moores failed twice at international level. Ramiz's is an IK fan boy and will most likely fall for the first available coach with chitty chamri.

That he got woolmer is interesting because woolmer was working on a high peformance role, sinecure?, with no international suitors. Appointment did work out in the end but it wasn't a bold decision like india appointing kirsten or NZ going with multiple home grown coaches, aberhart, trist, hesson, stead....
 
muqarrab said:
Source?

Moores failed twice at international level. Ramiz's is an IK fan boy and will most likely fall for the first available coach with chitty chamri.

That he got woolmer is interesting because woolmer was working on a high peformance role, sinecure?, with no international suitors. Appointment did work out in the end but it wasn't a bold decision like india appointing kirsten or NZ going with multiple home grown coaches, aberhart, trist, hesson, stead....
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It’s all over SM.

I don’t think any foreigner would even want to coach Pakistan cricket team after seeing how PCB treated Mickey Arthur and Steve Rixon.

The only person PCB could go for is Herschelle Gibbs. If Peter Moores is signed by KK then I’d expect Gibbs to be the next Pakistan coach.
 
Coaching Pakistan is a tough ask which gets even more difficult considering the team is really weak without many match winners.

However, Misbah should have never been given the national team with such ease considering he lacked any experience.
 
Hiring anyone requires a deep and thoughtful process. Pakistan won the 1992 World Cup, Reached the Final of the 1999 World Cup, Reached the Final of the 2007 T20 World Cup, Won the 2009 T20 World Cup, and Won the 2017 Champions Trophy. We have never been able to replicate this success. Unfortunately no one has asked the most important question. Why? How can you win the 2017 Champions Trophy yet be a below average One Day Team before and after that competition? There are two reasons.

One, winning a World Cup or a Tournament is not a barometer of success. The best team doesn't always win a tournament.

Two, Moreover that success was not the result of any process or system. It was random. More luck than skill. How do I know it was more luck than skill? Because it was skill and part of a well thought out long-term strategy, that strategy could be replicated. If you ask Imran Khan in 1992, Younis Khan in 2009, or Sarfraz Ahmed in 2017 how they won those competitions, they couldn't tell you. For example, going into the 2017 Champions Trophy Ahmed Shehzad and Wahab Riaz were key components of Pakistan's Starting XI. By the end of that competition Fakhar Zaman and Rumman Raees/Junaid had replaced them and were playing leading roles. In the first game of the 2009 T20 World Cup, Pakistan opened the batting with Salman Butt and Ahmed Shehzad. Abdul Razzaq wasn't even in the squad. In the Final against Sri Lanka, Kamran Akmal and Shahzaib Hasan opened the batting for Pakistan.

It is impossible to achieve sustainable success when that success is not built on a system, process, or any sound methodology. Nothing crystallizes this more than the appointment of PCB Chairman. The criteria to become the Chairman of Pakistan's most important sports body is proximity to the Prime Minister of Pakistan which changes randomly. Moreover for the vast majority of Pakistan's history that person has been corrupt. Yet that person is given the responsibility to appoint a Chairman.

I like Peter Moores. But before hiring Peter Moores on any other coach, a process for hiring a coach needs to exist. For example:

1. Is He a Leader?
2. Is He a Teacher?
3. Does he have ambition?
4. Does he believe in youth?
5. Does he have a record of developing young players?
6. Does he have a record of improving players?
7. Is he able to evaluate talent?
8. What is his cricket playing philosophy across three formats? Does that philosophy jive with what wins in those formats?
9. How does he construct his roster?
10. How does he construct a lineup?
11. Is he a victim of recency bias? How does he react to poor performance?
12. Is he a good communicator? (Players, Media, Executive Management).
13. Does he have any track record for success?
14. What formations does he play?

These are not in order but they must exist to begin the process of hiring a coach.
 
unemployedgm said:
Hiring anyone requires a deep and thoughtful process. Pakistan won the 1992 World Cup, Reached the Final of the 1999 World Cup, Reached the Final of the 2007 T20 World Cup, Won the 2009 T20 World Cup, and Won the 2017 Champions Trophy. We have never been able to replicate this success. Unfortunately no one has asked the most important question. Why? How can you win the 2017 Champions Trophy yet be a below average One Day Team before and after that competition? There are two reasons.

One, winning a World Cup or a Tournament is not a barometer of success. The best team doesn't always win a tournament.

Two, Moreover that success was not the result of any process or system. It was random. More luck than skill. How do I know it was more luck than skill? Because it was skill and part of a well thought out long-term strategy, that strategy could be replicated. If you ask Imran Khan in 1992, Younis Khan in 2009, or Sarfraz Ahmed in 2017 how they won those competitions, they couldn't tell you. For example, going into the 2017 Champions Trophy Ahmed Shehzad and Wahab Riaz were key components of Pakistan's Starting XI. By the end of that competition Fakhar Zaman and Rumman Raees/Junaid had replaced them and were playing leading roles. In the first game of the 2009 T20 World Cup, Pakistan opened the batting with Salman Butt and Ahmed Shehzad. Abdul Razzaq wasn't even in the squad. In the Final against Sri Lanka, Kamran Akmal and Shahzaib Hasan opened the batting for Pakistan.

It is impossible to achieve sustainable success when that success is not built on a system, process, or any sound methodology. Nothing crystallizes this more than the appointment of PCB Chairman. The criteria to become the Chairman of Pakistan's most important sports body is proximity to the Prime Minister of Pakistan which changes randomly. Moreover for the vast majority of Pakistan's history that person has been corrupt. Yet that person is given the responsibility to appoint a Chairman.

I like Peter Moores. But before hiring Peter Moores on any other coach, a process for hiring a coach needs to exist. For example:

1. Is He a Leader?
2. Is He a Teacher?
3. Does he have ambition?
4. Does he believe in youth?
5. Does he have a record of developing young players?
6. Does he have a record of improving players?
7. Is he able to evaluate talent?
8. What is his cricket playing philosophy across three formats? Does that philosophy jive with what wins in those formats?
9. How does he construct his roster?
10. How does he construct a lineup?
11. Is he a victim of recency bias? How does he react to poor performance?
12. Is he a good communicator? (Players, Media, Executive Management).
13. Does he have any track record for success?
14. What formations does he play?

These are not in order but they must exist to begin the process of hiring a coach.
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Very well written.
Institutionalism, Process, structure, and professionalism breeds sustained excellence . . Pakistan has always relied on individual brilliance!

There must be a reason why the team of the 90s/2000s was comprised of superstars from top to bottom yet we never shed our "inconsistent" tag . . we never became a truly top team . . we were always the "mercurial Pak" . . A team consistenting Saeed Anwer, Inzi, Yousuf, Rashid/Moin, Afridi, Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib, Saqlain, Razzaq . . Incredible when you think about it but paradoxically makes sense too!

The only part I'd add to your very well written deconstruction of what ails Pak is the absence of a "think tank" . .
Talent is not directly under the control of the team management . . talent is a product of many factors through the supply chain ultimately leading up to international cricket . .
However, what is in your control is ability to think, plan, strategize, build a team, have a game plan . . have a modern mindset, use data . . etc. etc. We are one of the worst when it comes to these things . . Small things like . . where your best fielder is stationed at what point of the game can make a huge difference . . which bowler to bowl against which batsman (match ups) . . Which shot not to play under which conditions (against which bowler) . . When to attack (who to attack) . . when to sit back . . you can come up with multiple such questions and then assess Pak on them . . you'll be stunned how many times we are lacking in these "controllables"
 
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Hopefully Peter Moores (if he gets the job) can bring Pakistan's thinking out of the stone age. Because its patently obvious that Misbah could not. Mohammad Wasim is a YouTube pundit, so expecting anything from him is simply expecting too much. What I don't understand though is why Pakistan can't just hire some top-quality data professionals from CricViz or some other international data firm?

The importance of data in T20 cricket cannot be underestimated. Top-quality teams (franchise or international) these days are not playing this format on the basis of who a YouTube pundit thinks can do well in the fantasy world he has imagined in his mind. Teams these days are heavily focused on match-ups. i.e. if a a leg-spinner from the opposition is bowling, than what is your batsman's record against leg-spin? If he has a poor record against leg-spin than you send someone who has a good record against leg-spin. Because of the unpredictability of the T20 format, it makes sense to focus on these match-ups and beyond the openers, it does not make sense to even have a fixed batting order in T20s. Match-ups in a sense personify the idea of playing according to the situation.

I know Moores is a smart individual. He only recently coached the Notts. Outlaws to the T20 Blast title. My only hope is that he is also as aware of these things as the rest of the world is. Because that YouTube pundit is not going to be thinking out of the box. If Moores gets the job, its upto him to convince Wasim Khan to focus on these things.
 
Slim said:
Fantastic post. Legend.

I personally want the GOAT Caretaker Intikhab Alam to come in for the T20 WC campaign, and Moores can take this position up afterwards. It would mean less pressure on Moores to deliver immediately and with :inti at the help, it could also mean one more silverware for Pakistan. :ronaldo
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Intikhab Alam is like the Forrest Gump of Pakistan cricket. He seems to be there on every important event.

Next thing you know, people will discover him in a picture standing next to AH Kardar as he stakes hands with the Queen of England. :afridi1
 
unemployedgm said:
Hiring anyone requires a deep and thoughtful process. Pakistan won the 1992 World Cup, Reached the Final of the 1999 World Cup, Reached the Final of the 2007 T20 World Cup, Won the 2009 T20 World Cup, and Won the 2017 Champions Trophy. We have never been able to replicate this success. Unfortunately no one has asked the most important question. Why? How can you win the 2017 Champions Trophy yet be a below average One Day Team before and after that competition? There are two reasons.

One, winning a World Cup or a Tournament is not a barometer of success. The best team doesn't always win a tournament.

Two, Moreover that success was not the result of any process or system. It was random. More luck than skill. How do I know it was more luck than skill? Because it was skill and part of a well thought out long-term strategy, that strategy could be replicated. If you ask Imran Khan in 1992, Younis Khan in 2009, or Sarfraz Ahmed in 2017 how they won those competitions, they couldn't tell you. For example, going into the 2017 Champions Trophy Ahmed Shehzad and Wahab Riaz were key components of Pakistan's Starting XI. By the end of that competition Fakhar Zaman and Rumman Raees/Junaid had replaced them and were playing leading roles. In the first game of the 2009 T20 World Cup, Pakistan opened the batting with Salman Butt and Ahmed Shehzad. Abdul Razzaq wasn't even in the squad. In the Final against Sri Lanka, Kamran Akmal and Shahzaib Hasan opened the batting for Pakistan.

It is impossible to achieve sustainable success when that success is not built on a system, process, or any sound methodology. Nothing crystallizes this more than the appointment of PCB Chairman. The criteria to become the Chairman of Pakistan's most important sports body is proximity to the Prime Minister of Pakistan which changes randomly. Moreover for the vast majority of Pakistan's history that person has been corrupt. Yet that person is given the responsibility to appoint a Chairman.

I like Peter Moores. But before hiring Peter Moores on any other coach, a process for hiring a coach needs to exist. For example:

1. Is He a Leader?
2. Is He a Teacher?
3. Does he have ambition?
4. Does he believe in youth?
5. Does he have a record of developing young players?
6. Does he have a record of improving players?
7. Is he able to evaluate talent?
8. What is his cricket playing philosophy across three formats? Does that philosophy jive with what wins in those formats?
9. How does he construct his roster?
10. How does he construct a lineup?
11. Is he a victim of recency bias? How does he react to poor performance?
12. Is he a good communicator? (Players, Media, Executive Management).
13. Does he have any track record for success?
14. What formations does he play?

These are not in order but they must exist to begin the process of hiring a coach.
Click to expand...

Superb post. Especially the part about luck and skill. Spot on and easy to see why our wins have been so rare.
 
unemployedgm said:
Hiring anyone requires a deep and thoughtful process. Pakistan won the 1992 World Cup, Reached the Final of the 1999 World Cup, Reached the Final of the 2007 T20 World Cup, Won the 2009 T20 World Cup, and Won the 2017 Champions Trophy. We have never been able to replicate this success. Unfortunately no one has asked the most important question. Why? How can you win the 2017 Champions Trophy yet be a below average One Day Team before and after that competition? There are two reasons.

One, winning a World Cup or a Tournament is not a barometer of success. The best team doesn't always win a tournament.

Two, Moreover that success was not the result of any process or system. It was random. More luck than skill. How do I know it was more luck than skill? Because it was skill and part of a well thought out long-term strategy, that strategy could be replicated. If you ask Imran Khan in 1992, Younis Khan in 2009, or Sarfraz Ahmed in 2017 how they won those competitions, they couldn't tell you. For example, going into the 2017 Champions Trophy Ahmed Shehzad and Wahab Riaz were key components of Pakistan's Starting XI. By the end of that competition Fakhar Zaman and Rumman Raees/Junaid had replaced them and were playing leading roles. In the first game of the 2009 T20 World Cup, Pakistan opened the batting with Salman Butt and Ahmed Shehzad. Abdul Razzaq wasn't even in the squad. In the Final against Sri Lanka, Kamran Akmal and Shahzaib Hasan opened the batting for Pakistan.

It is impossible to achieve sustainable success when that success is not built on a system, process, or any sound methodology. Nothing crystallizes this more than the appointment of PCB Chairman. The criteria to become the Chairman of Pakistan's most important sports body is proximity to the Prime Minister of Pakistan which changes randomly. Moreover for the vast majority of Pakistan's history that person has been corrupt. Yet that person is given the responsibility to appoint a Chairman.

I like Peter Moores. But before hiring Peter Moores on any other coach, a process for hiring a coach needs to exist. For example:

1. Is He a Leader?
2. Is He a Teacher?
3. Does he have ambition?
4. Does he believe in youth?
5. Does he have a record of developing young players?
6. Does he have a record of improving players?
7. Is he able to evaluate talent?
8. What is his cricket playing philosophy across three formats? Does that philosophy jive with what wins in those formats?
9. How does he construct his roster?
10. How does he construct a lineup?
11. Is he a victim of recency bias? How does he react to poor performance?
12. Is he a good communicator? (Players, Media, Executive Management).
13. Does he have any track record for success?
14. What formations does he play?

These are not in order but they must exist to begin the process of hiring a coach.
Click to expand...

Great post. I highlighted few similar points sometime ago mentioning how we have relied on individual brilliance and individuals to take us through rather than creating systems to achieve things or as you mentioned relying on luck.

If you are interested: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...lying-on-individuals-to-striving-for-a-system
 
A few things that the best coaches in the world look at are:

Salary
Length of contract
Can they bring in their own people
The level of support they will get from the Board
Who they will be working with
What say they will have in day to day matters
How much their opinions will be valued

I'm not sure how much of the above will be available to the new Pakistan head coach.
\
 
I agree with all the subsequent posts. We are an odd nation. When it comes to foreigners we immediately have an inferiority complex and when it comes to locals our EGO is enhanced beyond the norms of human decency. Like anything in life the route to success is somewhere in the middle. We yo-yo or vacillate from one perspective to the other because we as a Cricketing Nation don't have a well thought out perspective on the game of Cricket.

Saj is 100% correct in his assessment of what a coach is looking for. But what are we looking for? Is our process as simple as we need a foreign coach because we just fired a local coach. Wasim Akram said yesterday, there is no qualified head coach in Pakistan. He was also on the committee that ratified Misbah and Waqar Younis. Pakistan Cricket is full of EGOs but completely bereft of deep thinkers and thoughtful individuals. Again that is a product of that society where even the wealthy and powerful can't get enough of wealth and power. My point is the PCB should have a Process in Place to Hire a Head Coach beyond the color of skin or public perception.

I was given an opportunity to Hire a Coach on two occasions. The first time, I hired Paul Nixon. The second time, the owner of the Saint Lucia Stars went over my head and one day informed me that he had hired Brad Hodge. Brad Hodge is no longer working in cricket. On both occasions I had a deliberate process in place informed by my knowledge of cricket but also extensive research and years of observation.

I documented how Bill Walsh built the San Francisco 49ers, Phil Jackson the Chicago Bulls, Sir Alex Ferguson, Manchester United, Scotty Bowman the Detroit Red Wings and on and on and on. I also documented why coaches failed. Rich Kotite is arguably one of the worst coaches in NFL history. Did anyone ever ask why? The attributes within each group (success and failure) are consistent. These are not the same people nor do they work in the same sport. But the basic principles of how they coach their teams are generally the same.

There is one problem. There aren't a lot of great cricket coaches. Why? Because for the most part coaching in cricket has been a closed shop. Former players retire and suddenly they are handed jobs. They continue to exercise the bad intellectual habits they picked up while playing. Coaches who weren't players are few and far between. Some of those coaches are very good. Mike Hesson is an elite coach who left behind a wonderful succession plan in New Zealand. But for every Mike Hesson there is a hundred terrible coaches. His countrymen Daniel Vettori is a great example. Vettori fits phrase so eloquently said by Nassim Taleb. "Surgeons, should not look like surgeons." Vettori keeps getting jobs because he looks like a surgeon. Only in the aftermath of his work do people realize that he's horrible at surgery. But by then its too late. You've lost both time and money.

I interviewed Peter Moores when I was hiring for the Tallawahs job. He was my number one candidate because although I disagreed with his execution with England, he was a process driven coach. Because we were aligned in the way we thought about the game on the basis of my process for hiring a coach, I believed we could have success together. Unfortunately, Notts schedule collided with the CPL.

The PCB needs a few people who are willing to READ, to Write, and to Debate vigorously. When that day comes we will begin to move beyond terms such as "Cut for Size, Products, Brands." These terms reflect a lack of humanity to our approach and severe misunderstanding of how we should Build Pakistan Cricket. Until that changes history will continue to repeat itself. That means we will be consistently poor, but once a decade we will spring a surprise at an ICC event. We will lionize the participants but nothing will really change. The cycle will continue.
 
PCB makes fool of itself in last 15 years; when they gave our local players (WHO ARE NOT Professional coach at any level to coach the team; and when they demolish the team and its culture hire the foreign coach to clean up the mess, and when it becomes little better than before; desi so-called coaches are rehired again)

I will not blame players at all; PCB creates toxic workplace environment; whether they do it on their own or it is because PCB is highly politically affiliated is another debate
 
Waqar Younis
Misbah Ul Haq
Moin Khan


These were the few desi coaches we had in last 11 years;
1) They are not professional coaches
2) They lack man management skills to the core
3) And worst they were pretty bad tacticians during their playing days
 
Saj said:
A few things that the best coaches in the world look at are:

Salary
Length of contract
Can they bring in their own people
The level of support they will get from the Board
Who they will be working with
What say they will have in day to day matters
How much their opinions will be valued

I'm not sure how much of the above will be available to the new Pakistan head coach.
\
Click to expand...

+ Whether they will be respected by PCB or goons
How Steve Rixon salary issues happened and how MA was fired, is for everyone to see
 
unemployedgm said:
I agree with all the subsequent posts. We are an odd nation. When it comes to foreigners we immediately have an inferiority complex and when it comes to locals our EGO is enhanced beyond the norms of human decency. Like anything in life the route to success is somewhere in the middle. We yo-yo or vacillate from one perspective to the other because we as a Cricketing Nation don't have a well thought out perspective on the game of Cricket.

Saj is 100% correct in his assessment of what a coach is looking for. But what are we looking for? Is our process as simple as we need a foreign coach because we just fired a local coach. Wasim Akram said yesterday, there is no qualified head coach in Pakistan. He was also on the committee that ratified Misbah and Waqar Younis. Pakistan Cricket is full of EGOs but completely bereft of deep thinkers and thoughtful individuals. Again that is a product of that society where even the wealthy and powerful can't get enough of wealth and power. My point is the PCB should have a Process in Place to Hire a Head Coach beyond the color of skin or public perception.

I was given an opportunity to Hire a Coach on two occasions. The first time, I hired Paul Nixon. The second time, the owner of the Saint Lucia Stars went over my head and one day informed me that he had hired Brad Hodge. Brad Hodge is no longer working in cricket. On both occasions I had a deliberate process in place informed by my knowledge of cricket but also extensive research and years of observation.

I documented how Bill Walsh built the San Francisco 49ers, Phil Jackson the Chicago Bulls, Sir Alex Ferguson, Manchester United, Scotty Bowman the Detroit Red Wings and on and on and on. I also documented why coaches failed. Rich Kotite is arguably one of the worst coaches in NFL history. Did anyone ever ask why? The attributes within each group (success and failure) are consistent. These are not the same people nor do they work in the same sport. But the basic principles of how they coach their teams are generally the same.

There is one problem. There aren't a lot of great cricket coaches. Why? Because for the most part coaching in cricket has been a closed shop. Former players retire and suddenly they are handed jobs. They continue to exercise the bad intellectual habits they picked up while playing. Coaches who weren't players are few and far between. Some of those coaches are very good. Mike Hesson is an elite coach who left behind a wonderful succession plan in New Zealand. But for every Mike Hesson there is a hundred terrible coaches. His countrymen Daniel Vettori is a great example. Vettori fits phrase so eloquently said by Nassim Taleb. "Surgeons, should not look like surgeons." Vettori keeps getting jobs because he looks like a surgeon. Only in the aftermath of his work do people realize that he's horrible at surgery. But by then its too late. You've lost both time and money.

I interviewed Peter Moores when I was hiring for the Tallawahs job. He was my number one candidate because although I disagreed with his execution with England, he was a process driven coach. Because we were aligned in the way we thought about the game on the basis of my process for hiring a coach, I believed we could have success together. Unfortunately, Notts schedule collided with the CPL.

The PCB needs a few people who are willing to READ, to Write, and to Debate vigorously. When that day comes we will begin to move beyond terms such as "Cut for Size, Products, Brands." These terms reflect a lack of humanity to our approach and severe misunderstanding of how we should Build Pakistan Cricket. Until that changes history will continue to repeat itself. That means we will be consistently poor, but once a decade we will spring a surprise at an ICC event. We will lionize the participants but nothing will really change. The cycle will continue.
Click to expand...

What do you do professionally?
 
I think rather we need our own Peter Moores in Pakistan. Peter Moores was brought in to the England camp due to his repeated success in English domestic. It didn't work out for him in internationals, but I suspect there was potential for him to work out if he didn't clash with certain players.

We need someone who has repeatedly excelled at our domestic scene. Then he can correctly work with the players and correctly identify the best talent in domestic/from the squad.

After seeing what happed with Mickey Arthur, I'm really only prepared to have a foreign coach if he is really an elite one. If Andy Flower for example is interested, get him no question. But Peter Moores, might as well just have a Pakistani coach. Sure he might be useful for the one test series in England every two years, but for the rest of the matches in Asia an Asian coach will just have miles more experience and knowledge on how to win there. It's just we need to start giving domestic coaches chances, not based on their names but performance. It seems like in Pakistan it is more important to be a big name cricketer in order to be coach rather than actual qualifications or domestic success.
 
Thoroughly enjoyed reading [MENTION=147774]unemployedgm[/MENTION] posts. Not very often you read constructive quality educational views. A welcome break from Mamoons anti Pakistan, attention seeking contrarian rants
 
NauV said:
Very well written.
Institutionalism, Process, structure, and professionalism breeds sustained excellence . . Pakistan has always relied on individual brilliance!

There must be a reason why the team of the 90s/2000s was comprised of superstars from top to bottom yet we never shed our "inconsistent" tag . . we never became a truly top team . . we were always the "mercurial Pak" . . A team consistenting Saeed Anwer, Inzi, Yousuf, Rashid/Moin, Afridi, Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib, Saqlain, Razzaq . . Incredible when you think about it but paradoxically makes sense too!

The only part I'd add to your very well written deconstruction of what ails Pak is the absence of a "think tank" . .
Talent is not directly under the control of the team management . . talent is a product of many factors through the supply chain ultimately leading up to international cricket . .
However, what is in your control is ability to think, plan, strategize, build a team, have a game plan . . have a modern mindset, use data . . etc. etc. We are one of the worst when it comes to these things . . Small things like . . where your best fielder is stationed at what point of the game can make a huge difference . . which bowler to bowl against which batsman (match ups) . . Which shot not to play under which conditions (against which bowler) . . When to attack (who to attack) . . when to sit back . . you can come up with multiple such questions and then assess Pak on them . . you'll be stunned how many times we are lacking in these "controllables"
Click to expand...

India has embraced Science and Technology to excel in its cricket like no tomorrow. A key reason for their victory in Australia even with a severely weak team is how beautifully Bharat Arun advised and planned to eliminate the off side against the Australian batsmen by making the bowlers bowl at the off middle stump and packed the leg side field. End result the Australians run rate slowed down and instead of scoring 500-600 runs, they were now having to work with 200-300 runs which significantly reduced the pressure on the Indian batting line up and increased the pressure on the Australian bowling line up.

India as the tour went on did not have world class bowlers but the limited Indian bowlers stuck to the plan given to them by Bharat Arun and bowled to their field.

In comparison when the Pakistani think tank ie coaches cannot process or under stand and come up with anything remotely like this, how can you even blame the players who are just a product of their unprofessional environment?
 
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