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[PICTURES] A message for Babar Azam and his fans: Focus on ODIs and retire from Test and T20I

Some new narratives are being played on some media channels and social media:

1. Babar's position shouldn't have been changed; he is a no. 1 batter while playing at no. 3. The fact is there is not much difference in opening and playing one down in ODIs. Babar being a most experienced player must adjust to the team's requirement. I also believe that there has to be a proper opener in place of Saim but that doesn't mean Babar cannot perform as an opener

2. Saim's injury before CT is really unfortunate but that doesn't mean Pakistan cannot win without him. The team's performance should not be dependent on 1 or 2 players, others must step up and perform
 
What stands out about Babar is he is selfless and puts team about self which is not typical for a Pak/SC cricketer. He's in bad form but just for the team he moved up to open. I would love to know in which other team arguably the best ODI number 3 going around (full career not current form) would sacrifice his position to open for the team despite bad form.
 
PCB trying to fix something that is not broken..

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heddie19 said:
Which Babar fan endorsed his opening in ODI anyway?
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I did but I'm not a fan, u endorsed his opening cause it's an easier position then no 3 and he was flunking at 3.

Babar is out of form plain and simple. You may shuffle him across the board 7 ways to Sunday but he's put of form and isn't kicking off at any no atm. So fingers crossed for CT
 
Babar Azam's avg has fallen to 55 in odi but rizwan's increased to 42
 
Opening position is a big worry. Babar hasn’t performed as an opener yet and we will be going into the tournament with an opener who has not performed as an opener yet whether Babar plays or Saud plays.

I think we have no choice but to put Babar down to three and let Saud open. We’re already taking a risk with the opener regardless, and I don’t think we can also play a no.3 who hasn’t had international performances there too.
 
Babar should return to number 3 for the next game but TBH him and fakhar is a dangerous pair if they click together. But babar is out of form so this is big risk
 
Mohammad Rizwan shared following thoughts in his post-match presser:

Expectations from Babar Azam and the current poor form

"Allah has endowed Babar with immense talent. He has significantly contributed as a player for Pakistan,I hold similar expectations for him because of his God-given talent. It seems he needs to alleviate some pressure from these expectations. However, he might not be experiencing the best of luck lately. There's nothing wrong with Babar Azam; he's scored many runs for Pakistan in the past, leading us to expect centuries from him regularly. This pressure is likely affecting him too. I hope he finds more luck moving forward; he is our champion batsman. Today, you could see Babar's remarkable confidence."
 
Getting Inzamam's extremely religious cult vibes from Rizwans tenure with the way he keeps bringing religion into performance of the team
 
volcyz said:
He's been insuniating Allah's the one making them get centuries etc, all these runs they are scoring, wickets they are taking, wins etc... all from divine intervention.
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You should not be making comments about anyone's faith. That is his personal thing..

Anyways, babar needs to score runs and this is what everybody is looking for.
 
BouncerGuy said:
You should not be making comments about anyone's faith. That is his personal thing..

Anyways, babar needs to score runs and this is what everybody is looking for.
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I am just saying it's feeling similar to what Inzamam was doing during his tenure when everyone started growing beards and Yousuf Youhana was converted, while Danesh Kaneria was discarded.
 
mominsaigol said:
I did but I'm not a fan, u endorsed his opening cause it's an easier position then no 3 and he was flunking at 3.

Babar is out of form plain and simple. You may shuffle him across the board 7 ways to Sunday but he's put of form and isn't kicking off at any no atm. So fingers crossed for CT
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play him at no. 3 and he will score a ton within 3 innings
 
BouncerGuy said:
The day babar retires, you would be the happiest person alive I guess..
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Mate I'm willing to give rizwan a pass in odi because since he's become captain he avg 63 in odi's, has captained Pakistan to series win in aus ans sa etc etc and tbf, he's been > his replacements like usman, Saud at 4, KG etc etc.

I hate rizzu for t20 but it's whatever and it's irrelevant as it's odi season atm.

But Babar is inexcusable. It's coming to the point that even his die hard fans can't support him anymore. His avg in odi dropped from 61 to 55, in tests from 49 to 42 and in t20 from 49 to 39.

This is just a drop, if you actually look at his year by year avg, he's been avg 20+ in tests for a while now, 32+ in t20 with a hilariously bad strike rate and in odi somewhere from 38 to 46 depending on conditons.

This is absolutely pathetic and it has been going for 3 years now.

How much more time do you need?

Have saim and Fakhar be openers full time but sadly fakhar's time is running out due to age. And as for no 3, maybe give saud a few more games but since he and KG aren't performing i wouldn't mind if they got the axe as well.
 
mominsaigol said:
Mate I'm willing to give rizwan a pass in odi because since he's become captain he avg 63 in odi's, has captained Pakistan to series win in aus ans sa etc etc and tbf, he's been > his replacements like usman, Saud at 4, KG etc etc.

I hate rizzu for t20 but it's whatever and it's irrelevant as it's odi season atm.

But Babar is inexcusable. It's coming to the point that even his die hard fans can't support him anymore. His avg in odi dropped from 61 to 55, in tests from 49 to 42 and in t20 from 49 to 39.

This is just a drop, if you actually look at his year by year avg, he's been avg 20+ in tests for a while now, 32+ in t20 with a hilariously bad strike rate and in odi somewhere from 38 to 46 depending on conditons.

This is absolutely pathetic and it has been going for 3 years now.

How much more time do you need?

Have saim and Fakhar be openers full time but sadly fakhar's time is running out due to age. And as for no 3, maybe give saud a few more games but since he and KG aren't performing i wouldn't mind if they got the axe as well.
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With this kind of form, he should be dropped... time's up.
 
I think this opening experiment has failed badly. If saud is playing every game, he should open else Play usman and put babar back to his original place and let's see what he brings... SO far, opening is not working
 
mominsaigol said:
Virat kohli is a soft run machine?
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Yes. In ODIs he is.

Failed miserably in almost all ICC ODI knockouts except the 2023 SF against New Zealand.

Heck even in that game, he got saved by Shreyas' fearless knock or else we would have settled for 340 and NZ would have chased it down easily.
 
And having said that Babar Azam is an even bigger conman in ODI cricket history.

All this guy has ever done is score utterly forgettable soft hundreds against mediocre bowling attacks on flat roads and his fans somehow believe that he is an ATG lmao. He is basically a degraded version of Hashim Amla minus Hash's Test batting credentials.
 
Mesozoic said:
Yes. In ODIs he is.

Failed miserably in almost all ICC ODI knockouts except the 2023 SF against New Zealand.

Heck even in that game, he got saved by Shreyas' fearless knock or else we would have settled for 340 and NZ would have chased it down easily.
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Ultimate Game
 
On the bright side, he’s getting starts but he’s not converting. He doesn’t look in terrible form. Hopefully he gets the big score in the tournament. But I’d have liked even one good knock leading up to the tournament with his chances and he hasn’t got it.

Saud on the other hand has gone the other way. He genuinely looked in good touch in Odis batting down the order and just throwing it away. Up the order he hasn’t looked great but it’s been a very small sample size.
 
ads101 said:
On the bright side, he’s getting starts but he’s not converting. He doesn’t look in terrible form
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That's an even more ominous sign. That usually means that the player has lost his ability to concentrate for longer durations and play big knocks.

Form may come and go...but the ability to occupy the crease for long durations is a habit and once you lose it, it's very hard to attain it back. Ponting from 2008-12 was the biggest example of this.
 
Devadwal said:
PCB was using term Fab 5 in Odis just to keep relevant babar azam :kp

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It is not just PCB who uses this term. Look at the record, he deserved that term anyways..
He is out of form and to scoring runs that is true but he has got number to back this fab 5 status.

I hope he comes good in CT otherwise this should be his last event before he gets dropped and sent back to domestics to regain his form and work on this issues.
 
BouncerGuy said:
It is not just PCB who uses this term. Look at the record, he deserved that term anyways..
He is out of form and to scoring runs that is true but he has got number to back this fab 5 status.

I hope he comes good in CT otherwise this should be his last event before he gets dropped and sent back to domestics to regain his form and work on this issues.
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He will not be dropped for a prolonged period. PCB has invested way too much on him and has been hellbent on making him a brand.
 
Hitman said:
He will not be dropped for a prolonged period. PCB has invested way too much on him and has been hellbent on making him a brand.
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Babar is already a brand. He is too popular atm. His fanbase is huge... But the thing is, he needs to back his place in the team with performances which is missing so far.
 
mominsaigol said:
Dear Babar Azam and Babar fans,

I sincerely urge you to retire from the T20 and Test formats effective immediately.

Babar Azam, in his relatively short ODI career, has already scored 19 ODI centuries at an average of 56 and a strike rate of 88, which is a terrific record—even if one were to argue that some of these performances came against second-string attacks.

All Babar needs are a couple of iconic ICC tournament knocks and possibly standout performances in the Asia Cup to solidify his legacy as an all-time great (ATG) in ODI cricket. At present, he is only missing match-winning tournament performances in ODIs. Statistically, he has already achieved impressive numbers.

However, with his focus divided between T20 and Test cricket, I doubt he will be able to reach his full potential in ODIs. It’s safe to say that Babar Azam has struggled in Test cricket, with his average now falling to 42.77.

His T20I average has also dipped to 39, which is decent, but his strike rate of 129 in the format is underwhelming.

ODI cricket is the only format where Babar has excellent statistical numbers, and if he dedicates himself to excelling in this format, particularly in tournaments, he can easily establish himself as an ATG ODI player.

However, his legacy might be tarnished in ODIs if he continues to underperform in Tests and T20s.

My advice is to permanently replace Babar Azam in the T20 and Test formats with Saim Ayub and focus on grooming Saim Ayub as Pakistan's main white-ball batter. However, it’s important to avoid creating a culture of stardom around Saim and refrain from giving him captaincy too early in his career.

All eyes should now be on Saim Ayub, who is young and undeniably classy as a batter.
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We should support our stars in their difficult times. Baber is still young & have lot a cricket ahead of him
 

Babar Azam addresses being dropped from Pakistan's T20I squad​


Former Pakistan captain and current Peshawar Zalmi skipper Babar Azam has addressed questions about his T20 international future, performance expectations, and public scrutiny over his strike rate.

In a recent interview, Babar responded to growing speculation about his place in Pakistan's T20 squad.

He said the decision ultimately rests with the selectors. “Only the selectors and coaches can answer what they’re thinking about my T20 career. My job is to perform—whether it’s in T20s, ODIs, or Tests,” he said. “As long as Allah wills, I will continue to play.”

Babar confirmed that he was informed about being rested from recent T20 fixtures, adding, “Let’s see what they decide.”

Reflecting on Peshawar Zalmi’s campaign in HBL PSL 10, the 30-year-old admitted that inconsistency has hampered the team.

“We tried to build a winning combination and managed two victories, but we need to maintain consistency,” he said. “Our fielding hasn’t been up to the mark. We have to avoid losing wickets at crucial moments or dropping catches.”

On his personal form, Babar acknowledged fan expectations. “People want to see me bat longer. I haven’t lived up to that recently, but I try to learn from every mistake.”

Addressing frequent criticism over his strike rate, Babar defended his style. “I know there’s a lot of talk about strike rate and aggression. I play according to the team’s needs and match situations,” he said. “I don’t need to prove who I am—everyone already knows.”

He also emphasized his flexibility in the batting order, stating, “No one has changed positions as much as I have. I’ve batted from six to opening, both in Tests and T20s. I do whatever the team requires.”

Rejecting suggestions that T20 cricket affects ODI performance, Babar highlighted his love for the 50-over format. “ODIs test your patience. Despite high scores, the format still has value. Some of my best innings have come in ODIs.”

On the Pakistan Super League, Babar praised the competition’s standards. “PSL remains a top-tier league. The fast bowling quality is world-class, and foreign players make an effort to be here.”

Ending on a humble note, Babar said he prefers to let his cricket speak for itself. “Even when I was ranked number one, I wasn’t satisfied. I always want to do more for Pakistan.”

SOURCE: Tribune.com.pk
 
Ball Blazer said:
He also emphasized his flexibility in the batting order, stating, “No one has changed positions as much as I have. I’ve batted from six to opening, both in Tests and T20s. I do whatever the team requires.”
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What a fraud!
 
Speaking to a local TV channel, Azam opened up on his batting position. He said:

"No one has changed batting positions as much as I have, whenever someone new comes in, it's Babar who adjusts. Franchise wanted me to open, and for the national team, I play wherever needed. I've never had personal goals country comes first."
 
Ball Blazer said:
Speaking to a local TV channel, Azam opened up on his batting position. He said:

"No one has changed batting positions as much as I have, whenever someone new comes in, it's Babar who adjusts. Franchise wanted me to open, and for the national team, I play wherever needed. I've never had personal goals country comes first."
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Babar Azam, April fools was 30 days ago
 
Ball Blazer said:
Speaking to a local TV channel, Azam opened up on his batting position. He said:

"No one has changed batting positions as much as I have, whenever someone new comes in, it's Babar who adjusts. Franchise wanted me to open, and for the national team, I play wherever needed. I've never had personal goals country comes first."
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Zimbru just being zimbru. He should drop himself from opening position and bat at 3 or 4 for peshawar.

Peshawar is wasting talent like Mitchell owen who can bring opposition to their knees.

I really hope i never see him in t20is ever again. I couldn't care less about franchise cricket. They can do whatever they want with him as long as he doesn't play T20is for Pakistan again.
 
followed said:
Zimbru just being zimbru. He should drop himself from opening position and bat at 3 or 4 for peshawar.

Peshawar is wasting talent like Mitchell owen who can bring opposition to their knees.

I really hope i never see him in t20is ever again. I couldn't care less about franchise cricket. They can do whatever they want with him as long as he doesn't play T20is for Pakistan again.
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Should stick to test and odi and should learn to appreciate test + FC
 
Mesozoic said:
Yes. In ODIs he is.

Failed miserably in almost all ICC ODI knockouts except the 2023 SF against New Zealand.

Heck even in that game, he got saved by Shreyas' fearless knock or else we would have settled for 340 and NZ would have chased it down easily.
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Lol, what about the one against Australia this year in semis?

He is the greatest ODI batter bar none.

Sachin failed in all icc knockouts and doesn’t even have a single quality match winning knock in icc kos. Virat has many.
 
Mesozoic said:
Lmao look at that top 3.

Brothers are all grade A soft run machine stat-padders who have done nothing major to win their teams big titles.
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The top 3 ends with Williamson.
Just so that you can justify your silly mistake you called Kohli a soft run scorer.

Secondly unlike the other 3, Kohli broke the all time record for runs in a world cup.

If thats soft, then your definition is wrong.

Top 2
Richards
Kohli

Country mile

Sachin
Devilliers.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
The top 3 ends with Williamson.
Just so that you can justify your silly mistake you called Kohli a soft run scorer.

Secondly unlike the other 3, Kohli broke the all time record for runs in a world cup.

If thats soft, then your definition is wrong.

Top 2
Richards
Kohli

Country mile

Sachin
Devilliers.
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Lol no, Sachin is far far superior to Kohli in any format. Even kohli would disagree with you and placing hinself > Sachin in Odi.

Kohli is on the level of Ponting in odi but due to playing in an easier 2 new ball era kohli had better records.

Kohli is better at chasing and playing pace while ponting is better at batting first and playing pace but both are relative to one another.

Putting de villers > Lara and Ponting in Odi 🤦🏻🤦🏻.

Viv > Sachin > Kohli >= Ponting
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
The top 3 ends with Williamson.
Just so that you can justify your silly mistake you called Kohli a soft run scorer.

Secondly unlike the other 3, Kohli broke the all time record for runs in a world cup.

If thats soft, then your definition is wrong.

Top 2
Richards
Kohli

Country mile

Sachin
Devilliers.
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In no universe is Kohli a country mile better than sachin in ODIs. Sachin started in an era where ODIs were played with red ball and 210 was an great score. He has played across 3 decades and adjusted to every single rule change, different pitches and attacks while kohli played in the 2 ball era solely on flat pitches.
 
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Sachin fan said:
In no universe is Kohli a country mile better than sachin in ODIs. Sachin started in an era where ODIs were played with red ball and 210 was an great score. He has played across 3 decades and adjusted to every single rule change, different pitches and attacks while kohli played in the 2 ball era solely on flat pitches.
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Sachin's desert storm innings is > Kohli's entire career. That chase involved

A) Chasing against a bowling attack that kohli can't dream of facing in a one ball era.

B) Scoring 143 when everyone else scored 35 max

C) Being the lone warrior vs Classic aus playing in a god damn desert and sandy conditon

D) Doing this all in a one ball era.

Sachin is far > Kohli and Kohli hinself admits it. With that being said Kohli is defo on par with Ponting as an Odi batsmen.
 
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Sachin fan said:
In no universe is Kohli a country mile better than sachin in ODIs. Sachin started in an era where ODIs were played with red ball and 210 was an great score. He has played across 3 decades and adjusted to every single rule change, different pitches and attacks while kohli played in the 2 ball era solely on flat pitches.
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You can use this old rules excuse for any/all 90s players .

Kohli has more than compensated for friendlier batting conditions, he averages 14 points higher in avg and 8 points in str rate.
He has done everything that Sachin did in his era, including top scoring in a world cup, match winning century in icc ko, match winning fifty in icc ko.

To stamp his authority as the greatest odi bat he surpassed Sachins century tally in Odisha too. Also unlike Sachin he has top quality match winning performance in icc KOs.

Go visit other forums and you will get to know who is rated higher in Odis, Kohli being rated higher than Sachin in Odis is a popular opinion,only nostalgic Indian fans who have just one arrow in their quiver (old era, old bowlers etc etc) think Sachin is clear of Kohli.
 
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mominsaigol said:
Sachin's desert storm innings is > Kohli's entire career. That chase involved

A) Chasing against a bowling attack that kohli can't dream of facing in a one ball era.

B) Scoring 143 when everyone else scored 35 max

C) Being the lone warrior vs Classic aus playing in a god damn desert and sandy conditon

D) Doing this all in a one ball era.

Sachin is far > Kohli and Kohli hinself admits it. With that being said Kohli is defo on par with Ponting as an Odi batsmen.
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Stopped reading after first sentence.
An innings against a Mcgrath less Australia whose third pacer was Moody won't even come near top 5 Kohli Odis innings.

Devilliers is ahead of Ponting in Odis by a fair margin and you including Lara ahead of Devilliers in Odis tells me all I need to know.

Lara won't even come near top 15 odi batsmen let alone top 10.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Stopped reading after first sentence.
An innings against a Mcgrath less Australia whose third pacer was Moody won't even come near top 5 Kohli Odis innings.

Devilliers is ahead of Ponting in Odis by a fair margin and you including Lara ahead of Devilliers in Odis tells me all I need to know.

Lara won't even come near top 15 odi batsmen let alone top 10.
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You stopped reading after the first sentence yet you're insightful enough to somehow figure out that I rated Lara > De villers and Ponting > De villers?

Mashallah what a premonition you have 🤣. Anyway theirs no point in arguing with someone who clearly thinks Lara is below top 15 odi batters, I'd like to know the top 15 odi batters > him lol.

It's a good thing Kohli hinself disagrees with your notion and thankfully kohli isn't as ignorant as his own fans lol
 
mominsaigol said:
You stopped reading after the first sentence yet you're insightful enough to somehow figure out that I rated Lara > De villers and Ponting > De villers?

Mashallah what a premonition you have 🤣. Anyway theirs no point in arguing with someone who clearly thinks Lara is below top 15 odi batters, I'd like to know the top 15 odi batters > him lol.

It's a good thing Kohli hinself disagrees with your notion and thankfully kohli isn't as ignorant as his own fans lol
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Look carefully, your post regarding Ponting and Lara was different. I read that post fully but when you started with Desert storm you lost my attention. I won't say that you are being dishonest,
 
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jeeteshssaxena said:
Look carefully, your post regarding Ponting and Lara was different. I read that post fully but when you started with Desert storm you lost my attention. I won't say that you are being dishonest,
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Give me 15 odi batters > Lara. Do it now. I'm expecting the list to be some sort of nonsense such as naming Dhoni or Sanga > Lara 🤦🏻
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
You can use this old rules excuse for any/all 90s players .

Kohli has more than compensated for friendlier batting conditions, he averages 14 points higher in avg and 8 points in str rate.
He has done everything that Sachin did in his era, including top scoring in a world cup, match winning century in icc ko, match winning fifty in icc ko.

To stamp his authority as the greatest odi bat he surpassed Sachins century tally in Odisha too. Also unlike Sachin he has top quality match winning performance in icc KOs.

Go visit other forums and you will get to know who is rated higher in Odis, Kohli being rated higher than Sachin in Odis is a popular opinion,only nostalgic Indian fans who have just one arrow in their quiver (old era, old bowlers etc etc) think Sachin is clear of Kohli.
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Probably the worst I repeat the worst para I've ever read on PP.

Seriously this is your argument towards @Sachin fan ? Go to other forumns and argue with idiots? 🤣🤣🤣.

Let me explain why this logic makes zero sense,

Odi cricket use to be the hardest format especially when red ball was still utilised. You would play on test match pitches with a red ball except unlike Test where batters can force a bowler to bowl to their strengths, they can't do giggly squat in odi since they have to attack from the get go and have to disrupt bowler line and lengths.

Scoring in that era was generally hard. In kohli's era odi is a joke format, 2 new balls, friendlier conditons have essentially made it an easier version of t20 cricket where batters can freely attack but take significant amount of time to attack and pace themsleves.

Test cricket may be a different format, but it's a perfect illustration of what wpuld have happened to Kohli had he played in the one ball era aka a player who would have gone through a purple patch, would have been jerked off with Sachin comparisons and then would eventually falter and fail into the abyss due to lack of longevity.

Kohli in test cricket has showcased that he's essentially a clown. He's gotten out so many times on that 3rd offstump line that every game feels like you're watching the same length.

Now guess what McGrath use to do? He use to bowl that same line and length on end. Kohli would be a dead man had he played in early Sachin era where the red ball was still a factor in odi cricket.

Comparing him to Viv Richards is hilarious, Kohli's track record literally shows that he would be a toothpick had he played in odi's red ball era.

So no, he doesn't compensate by scoring 14 more points in avg in a batting friendly era.

Not to mention the no of times kohli has failed when test match pitches or batting under lights has come into play case in point

A) NZ vs India 2019 semi final

B) Aus vs India 2015 semi final.

Kohli is a Ponting level batter but he'd likely scale below him in that era.

He's a solid batsmen and top 5 of all time, but he'd be a clown in viv and early Sachin era. That's an objective fact given how his red ball trajectory is going.

The fact that you've compared him to viv and have put him > Sachin and you're only argument is, go talk to some other forumn idiot is a cringe worthy argument.

Thankfully Kohli isn't as stupid as his fans. He himself wouldn't claim to be a better batsmen then Sachin and viv, ge literally worships them.
 
Kohli in Viv's era would be a nobody in odi.

In sachin's era he'd be Ponting's level. A much better batter then Lara, but easily below Sachin. So top 2 in his era.

Kohli can't play red ball especially odi red ball. Nor would be able to handle warne or McGrath given his obvious weakness on the 3rd offstump line.

The main question is Bumrah, how good would bumrah be in the one ball era? Personally I believe Bumrah would have been the top 2 bowler in that era just beneath Mcgrath.

Bumrah is the real deal 100%.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
You can use this old rules excuse for any/all 90s players .

Kohli has more than compensated for friendlier batting conditions, he averages 14 points higher in avg and 8 points in str rate.
He has done everything that Sachin did in his era, including top scoring in a world cup, match winning century in icc ko, match winning fifty in icc ko.

To stamp his authority as the greatest odi bat he surpassed Sachins century tally in Odisha too. Also unlike Sachin he has top quality match winning performance in icc KOs.

Go visit other forums and you will get to know who is rated higher in Odis, Kohli being rated higher than Sachin in Odis is a popular opinion,only nostalgic Indian fans who have just one arrow in their quiver (old era, old bowlers etc etc) think Sachin is clear of Kohli.
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so somehow match winning performances in semis is not "top quality"? Sachin top scored in multiple world cups.

And of course I will use the old rules for all players, players you are putting down because of your ignorance.


And as for online circlejerks, you will find lots of anti vaxxers and science deniers online too, what does that prove?

Most peers, experts of the games, etc put Sachin above Kohli, some PR and circlejerkers on forms dont decide things.


I have no issues with your opinion of "rated higher", its your stupid assertion of "country mile" I was laughing at. When you put down other legends to big your own, you will be hit back too. Fans like you are the reason why Kohli gets so much hate,
 
Sachin fan said:
so somehow match winning performances in semis is not "top quality"? Sachin top scored in multiple world cups.

And of course I will use the old rules for all players, players you are putting down because of your ignorance.


And as for online circlejerks, you will find lots of anti vaxxers and science deniers online too, what does that prove?

Most peers, experts of the games, etc put Sachin above Kohli, some PR and circlejerkers on forms dont decide things.


I have no issues with your opinion of "rated higher", its your stupid assertion of "country mile" I was laughing at. When you put down other legends to big your own, you will be hit back too. Fans like you are the reason why Kohli gets so much hate,
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Kohli in Viv's era and early Sachin's era would have been the VVS Laxman of odi cricket, aka a nobody.

He would have had a purple patch phase where he'd dominate but he would eventually fade away into obscurity.

However that's not me insulting Virat, Almost every 90's era batter, Ponting included would have struggled to handle Red ball Odi cricket. Sachin was an exception and it's why Viv is highly rated.

People don't understand how absurdly difficult it is to avg 47 and strike at 90 in odi red ball, not to mention the fact that during viv era, the wide margins + Boundary circles were wider and longer.

Viv also had to deal with nonsense of 6 bouncers an over.

With that being said one area where Kohli is superior to Sachin is chasing as he has better game awarness and rr awarness, but he isn't as complete as Sachin and just wouldn't have been able to handle 3 different eras nor would he have been able to deal with McGrath, Murli and Warne.

Tbf, he would have been able to handle everyone else like Lee, Wasim, and many others.

Kohli is still Ponting level as a batsmen.
 
Sachin fan said:
so somehow match winning performances in semis is not "top quality"? Sachin top scored in multiple world cups.

And of course I will use the old rules for all players, players you are putting down because of your ignorance.


And as for online circlejerks, you will find lots of anti vaxxers and science deniers online too, what does that prove?

Most peers, experts of the games, etc put Sachin above Kohli, some PR and circlejerkers on forms dont decide things.


I have no issues with your opinion of "rated higher", its your stupid assertion of "country mile" I was laughing at. When you put down other legends to big your own, you will be hit back too. Fans like you are the reason why Kohli gets so much hate,
Click to expand...
Which match winning semifinal knock? If you are referring to the one vs Pak in 2011, then you really need to be more honest. That was an awful knock.

I will repeat, Kohli has surpassed Sachin in Odis in each and every metric, which includes performance home and away, performance in Icc tournaments, matvh winning knocks in icc kos.

I don’t give a rats behind if he gets hate or not, we are too small to make any difference for him.

Sachin is miles ahead in test but no actually all his peers put him above Sachin in Odis, ex - Kl Rahul, Pandya the whole Australian team of the 2010 decade, even Justin Langer and Mathew Hayden rate him higher than Sachin in odis.


@mominsaigol Ponting literally rated Kohli as the best Odi player he has ever seen. Google it.


Michael Vaughan rates Kohli above Sachin in Odis.

Atleast google something before posting, literally all his contemporaries and most of the past legends rate Kohli ahead in Odis.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Which match winning semifinal knock? If you are referring to the one vs Pak in 2011, then you really need to be more honest. That was an awful knock.

I will repeat, Kohli has surpassed Sachin in Odis in each and every metric, which includes performance home and away, performance in Icc tournaments, matvh winning knocks in icc kos.

I don’t give a rats behind if he gets hate or not, we are too small to make any difference for him.

Sachin is miles ahead in test but no actually all his peers put him above Sachin in Odis, ex - Kl Rahul, Pandya the whole Australian team of the 2010 decade, even Justin Langer and Mathew Hayden rate him higher than Sachin in odis.


@mominsaigol Ponting literally rated Kohli as the best Odi player he has ever seen. Google it.


Michael Vaughan rates Kohli above Sachin in Odis.

Atleast google something before posting, literally all his contemporaries and most of the past legends rate Kohli ahead in Odis.
Click to expand...
I'm not the one who claimed these guys rated kohli > or not.

I claimed Kohli himself does not rate himself > Sachin. Secondly don't ignore my points. I listed an entire era's criteria which establishes why Sachin is superior.

And why your assertion on putting Kohli next to viv is beyond laughable
 
mominsaigol said:
Probably the worst I repeat the worst para I've ever read on PP.

Seriously this is your argument towards @Sachin fan ? Go to other forumns and argue with idiots? 🤣🤣🤣.

Let me explain why this logic makes zero sense,

Odi cricket use to be the hardest format especially when red ball was still utilised. You would play on test match pitches with a red ball except unlike Test where batters can force a bowler to bowl to their strengths, they can't do giggly squat in odi since they have to attack from the get go and have to disrupt bowler line and lengths.

Scoring in that era was generally hard. In kohli's era odi is a joke format, 2 new balls, friendlier conditons have essentially made it an easier version of t20 cricket where batters can freely attack but take significant amount of time to attack and pace themsleves.

Test cricket may be a different format, but it's a perfect illustration of what wpuld have happened to Kohli had he played in the one ball era aka a player who would have gone through a purple patch, would have been jerked off with Sachin comparisons and then would eventually falter and fail into the abyss due to lack of longevity.

Kohli in test cricket has showcased that he's essentially a clown. He's gotten out so many times on that 3rd offstump line that every game feels like you're watching the same length.

Now guess what McGrath use to do? He use to bowl that same line and length on end. Kohli would be a dead man had he played in early Sachin era where the red ball was still a factor in odi cricket.

Comparing him to Viv Richards is hilarious, Kohli's track record literally shows that he would be a toothpick had he played in odi's red ball era.

So no, he doesn't compensate by scoring 14 more points in avg in a batting friendly era.

Not to mention the no of times kohli has failed when test match pitches or batting under lights has come into play case in point

A) NZ vs India 2019 semi final

B) Aus vs India 2015 semi final.

Kohli is a Ponting level batter but he'd likely scale below him in that era.

He's a solid batsmen and top 5 of all time, but he'd be a clown in viv and early Sachin era. That's an objective fact given how his red ball trajectory is going.

The fact that you've compared him to viv and have put him > Sachin and you're only argument is, go talk to some other forumn idiot is a cringe worthy argument.

Thankfully Kohli isn't as stupid as his fans. He himself wouldn't claim to be a better batsmen then Sachin and viv, ge literally worships them.
Click to expand...
I do not agree with any of that.

Amongst knowledgeable cricket fans it is agreed that a legend in one era would be a legend in another era.

This is because there is absolutely no way of knowing how a particular player would have developed if he played in that era, why do you think Kohli would have the same technique if he played in 90s.

Do you think Kohli would have the same technique if he played in the 1950s too?

A players technique depends a lot on the era in which he developed.

My argument is Kohli has more than compensated for the friendlier batting conditions.


If you ho to youtube and Analyze the techniques of Jack Hobbs, Len Hutton, Arthur Morris, George Headley, Everton Weekes, Herb Sutcliffe you would deem them unfit to play in this era. But their technique was a product of the era they played in.

Because of the above reasons, I totally reject your hypothesis regarding Kohli in 90s.

@Sachin fan you can also read this, I don’t give two hoots when anyone mentions era difference, players are products of their era.
 
mominsaigol said:
I'm not the one who claimed these guys rated kohli > or not.

I claimed Kohli himself does not rate himself > Sachin. Secondly don't ignore my points. I listed an entire era's criteria which establishes why Sachin is superior.

And why your assertion on putting Kohli next to viv is beyond laughable
Click to expand...
Kohli knows he is nowhere near Sachin in terms of ability, and he admitted that.
Ability and performances are two different tjings though, Kohli has surpassed Sachin in every metric in Odis.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
I do not agree with any of that.

Amongst knowledgeable cricket fans it is agreed that a legend in one era would be a legend in another era.

This is because there is absolutely no way of knowing how a particular player would have developed if he played in that era, why do you think Kohli would have the same technique if he played in 90s.

Do you think Kohli would have the same technique if he played in the 1950s too?

A players technique depends a lot on the era in which he developed.

My argument is Kohli has more than compensated for the friendlier batting conditions.


If you ho to youtube and Analyze the techniques of Jack Hobbs, Len Hutton, Arthur Morris, George Headley, Everton Weekes, Herb Sutcliffe you would deem them unfit to play in this era. But their technique was a product of the era they played in.

Because of the above reasons, I totally reject your hypothesis regarding Kohli in 90s.

@Sachin fan you can also read this, I don’t give two hoots when anyone mentions era difference, players are products of their era.
Click to expand...
Difference between 1990's and current is not that different in regards to test cricket. Only odi cricket is different but it has no impact on a players technique itself so don't give me this whole his technique would magically change had he played in the 90's.

I'm not concerned with what you reject or not, it's your rubbish opinion.

My argument is that Kohli would be an avg batter during Sachin's era(early to mid) and an horrible batter during viv era solely based of his trajectory in red ball which is 100% applicable to Odi cricket back when red ball and old classic PP rules were made into play.

This is further supported by his performance against NZ in 2019 which was achieved on a test match pitch due to rain putting India at a significant disadvantage for the semi final.

More so the notion of Mcgrath owning Kohli and warne owning him due to his constant issues vs the 3rd offstump line and occasional issues he's had with adil rashid leads to this conclusion.

The only metric Kohli had surpassed Sachin on is No of centuries, Avg and Sr which most batters in this era barring no of centuries have surpassed Sachin.

The likes of shai hope and babar have greater avg and sr. Similar the logic of record breaking runs In world cups doesn't make any sense either since the crux of your argument is that Sachin wasn't able to do it, yet you acknowledge it an easier era overall.

It wasn't possible to generate such numbers in the past hence it's not a viable metric to scale Virat as > Sachin.

You haven't presented a single viable or comparable metric as why Virat scales higher beyond claiming this person said this, and this person said that.

Any idiot can say anything, anil kumble claimed rizwan was top 3 batters in the world based of current form after rizzu scored 131 vs Sri Lanka. How quickly did that notion fall off its trajectory?

Similarly QDK scored 4 centuries in a single wc event, more then any player of the 90's has scored yet no one puts qdk > Gilly for obvious reasons.
 
mominsaigol said:
Difference between 1990's and current is not that different in regards to test cricket. Only odi cricket is different but it has no impact on a players technique itself so don't give me this whole his technique would magically change had he played in the 90's.

I'm not concerned with what you reject or not, it's your rubbish opinion.

My argument is that Kohli would be an avg batter during Sachin's era(early to mid) and an horrible batter during viv era solely based of his trajectory in red ball which is 100% applicable to Odi cricket back when red ball and old classic PP rules were made into play.

This is further supported by his performance against NZ in 2019 which was achieved on a test match pitch due to rain putting India at a significant disadvantage for the semi final.

More so the notion of Mcgrath owning Kohli and warne owning him due to his constant issues vs the 3rd offstump line and occasional issues he's had with adil rashid leads to this conclusion.

The only metric Kohli had surpassed Sachin on is No of centuries, Avg and Sr which most batters in this era barring no of centuries have surpassed Sachin.

The likes of shai hope and babar have greater avg and sr. Similar the logic of record breaking runs In world cups doesn't make any sense either since the crux of your argument is that Sachin wasn't able to do it, yet you acknowledge it an easier era overall.

It wasn't possible to generate such numbers in the past hence it's not a viable metric to scale Virat as > Sachin.

You haven't presented a single viable or comparable metric as why Virat scales higher beyond claiming this person said this, and this person said that.

Any idiot can say anything, anil kumble claimed rizwan was top 3 batters in the world based of current form after rizzu scored 131 vs Sri Lanka. How quickly did that notion fall off its trajectory?

Similarly QDK scored 4 centuries in a single wc event, more then any player of the 90's has scored yet no one puts qdk > Gilly for obvious reasons.
Click to expand...
The first para itself is wrong.

Counter on your idiotic test match theory, Michael Bevan who averaged in 20s in test cricket managed to average 50+ in Odis, if such a horrible test player could manage that then why not Kohli who averages 47. Lol.



So basically you are saying Kohli would have been a horrible batsman if he played in the 80s, which means he is behind the likes of Dilip Vengsarkar, Zaheer Abbas, Miandad and all others?

So my question is why do you rate him a legend in odis when you consider him deadbeat?

Players grown in different era have different techniques used developed in accordance with the changing conditions and gameplay.

Your opinion is so idiotic that even you yourself don’t agree with it. How can a player who is less skilled than an average batters of the 80s be rated higher than them, lol.

You are basically saying that if cricketers from the 80s played in this era they would surpass Kohli, then Mr genius tell me how are you even rating him.?


Also you are the same guy who doesnt know how to calvulate averages, all your illogical conclusions can be easily countered.

Your argument rests on how Kohli would do against Mcgrath and Warne, two of the greatest bowlers ever. Even if he failed against them, that doesnt mean he would end up as an average player. He has a great record against DaleSteyn, one of the greatest ever.

Kohli high scored in a series in Africa where the bowling lineup was Rabada, Philander, Steyn, Morkel. That bowling lineup was legendary, I can also infer from it that he would do well against Donald and Pollocks Africa.

Also, I am not presenting mere statistics, unlike Shai and Babar, Kohli has played many impact knocks in icc tournaments and Asia cup and also stood tall against arch rivals. Shai and Babar do not come anywhere close to him.

Breaking the record of runs in a world cup is just the cherry on top.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
The first para itself is wrong.

Counter on your idiotic test match theory, Michael Bevan who averaged in 20s in test cricket managed to average 50+ in Odis, if such a horrible test player could manage that then why not Kohli who averages 47. Lol.



So basically you are saying Kohli would have been a horrible batsman if he played in the 80s, which means he is behind the likes of Dilip Vengsarkar, Zaheer Abbas, Miandad and all others?

So my question is why do you rate him a legend in odis when you consider him deadbeat?

Players grown in different era have different techniques used developed in accordance with the changing conditions and gameplay.

Your opinion is so idiotic that even you yourself don’t agree with it. How can a player who is less skilled than an average batters of the 80s be rated higher than them, lol.

You are basically saying that if cricketers from the 80s played in this era they would surpass Kohli, then Mr genius tell me how are you even rating him.?


Also you are the same guy who doesnt know how to calvulate averages, all your illogical conclusions can be easily countered.

Your argument rests on how Kohli would do against Mcgrath and Warne, two of the greatest bowlers ever. Even if he failed against them, that doesnt mean he would end up as an average player. He has a great record against DaleSteyn, one of the greatest ever.

Kohli high scored in a series in Africa where the bowling lineup was Rabada, Philander, Steyn, Morkel. That bowling lineup was legendary, I can also infer from it that he would do well against Donald and Pollocks Africa.

Also, I am not presenting mere statistics, unlike Shai and Babar, Kohli has played many impact knocks in icc tournaments and Asia cup and also stood tall against arch rivals. Shai and Babar do not come anywhere close to him.

Breaking the record of runs in a world cup is just the cherry on top.
Click to expand...
Bevan played like 18 tests? He ended up avg 55 and 60 against pk and West indies? He failed against pther teams however his sample size is absurdly small and the reason he wasn't entrusted to play tests is because he wasn't a front runner.

Horrible horrible example..what's Bevan's statistics after playing 18 odi?

That's exactly what I'm saying however the difference is, Zaheer, Miandad likely wouldn't have been able to adjust to the 90's or the modern era of today, they were standard batters for that era and weren't equivalent to later era players like Ponting, Jaysuria, Gilly.

They would have been very similar to Rahul Dravid aka extremely slow odi batters for their era. Sachin adjusted to 3 different eras while viv played super humanely for that era which is why they'd be able to dominate in the 2 new ball era.

Steyn's record was better in the one ball era. I'd like to see him play against them in a one ball red ball odi era and not the current mickey mouse era.

Your entire argument is hingent on 14 extra points in am easier era.

All you've done is strawman me and repeat arguments. Get new ones. Also answer my question.

Who are the 15 odi batters > Lara. let's see you answer your claim
 
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mominsaigol said:
Bevan played like 18 tests? He ended up avg 55 and 60 against pk and West indies? He failed against pther teams however his sample size is absurdly small and the reason he wasn't entrusted to play tests is because he wasn't a front runner.

Horrible horrible example..what's Bevan's statistics after playing 18 odi?

That's exactly what I'm saying however the difference is, Zaheer, Miandad likely wouldn't have been able to adjust to the 90's or the modern era of today, they were standard batters for that era and weren't equivalent to later era players like Ponting, Jaysuria, Gilly.

They would have been very similar to Rahul Dravid aka extremely slow odi batters for their era. Sachin adjusted to 3 different eras while viv played super humanely for that era which is why they'd be able to dominate in the 2 new ball era.

Steyn's record was better in the one ball era. I'd like to see him play against them in a one ball red ball odi era and not the current mickey mouse era.

Your entire argument is hingent on 14 extra points in am easier era.

All you've done is strawman me and repeat arguments. Get new ones. Also answer my question.

Who are the 15 odi batters > Lara. let's see you answer your claim
Click to expand...
You need to read more.

You had no answer to Bevans example, he failed in test cricket but excelled in odis.

The reason that sample size is small
Is that he was an utter failure in test cricket. Give me a proper argument here.
I know you won’t be able to coz your cricket knowledge is extremely limited.



Zaheer abbas striked at 80 with an avg of 40 and that too in late 70s and early 80s era. Rehne do bhai, nahi ho paega tumse.
 
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jeeteshssaxena said:
You need to read more.

You had no answer to Bevans example, he failed in test cricket but excelled in odis.

The reason that sample size is small
Is that he was an utter failure in test cricket. Give me a proper argument here.
I know you won’t be able to coz your cricket knowledge is extremely limited.



Zaheer abbas striked at 80 with an avg of 40 and that too in late 70s and early 80s era. Rehne do bhai, nahi ho paega tumse.
Click to expand...

You're a die hard Indian fan and a die hard kohli and it's evident by your Hatred for WTC + your backing for Kohli in test cricket.

Now about Zaheer, Zaheer is actually ranked as no 2 best batsmen of all time on ICC all time list only behind Viv. However I don't take that list seriously, I already proved last time that Zaheer was an utter clown in non English and non Pakistani conditons.

He's one of if not the best batsmen to ever play on English and Pakistani soil and no one, not even viv or Sachin have managed to play better in such conditons but he was useless in every other conditon.

He avg 30 in every other country he's ever played odi in irrespective of the opponent.

This is the issue with fans like you, you generalise everything and don't understand that everything in cricket is individual + context based.

I already showed you Bevan avg 55 and 60 against 2 oppositions. It's not my fault that Australia mismanaged him in test cricket in the same way Pakistan consistently mismanaged Fakhar in t20 and test cricket despite him being miles > Rizzu, Babar, Shan, Imam and Abdullah irrespective of formats.

Bevan would have kicked off and had a stellar test career if Australia trusted him and gave him more games.

Sachin played in 3 different eras, dominated in 3 different eras, Adjusted to 3 different eras and was the best batter across 3 different eras while Kohli played in cricket's easiest era and has consistently proven himself to be damn near useless if certain pitch conditons don't go his way.

Pakistan vs India 2012 series is another example of Kohli not living up to the mark in swinging conditons as that series had a test match pitch where 200-240 was the norm. Infact Dhoni actually played better and avoided a humiliating whitewash for India
 
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mominsaigol said:
You're a die hard Indian fan and a die hard kohli and it's evident by your Hatred for WTC + your backing for Kohli in test cricket.

Now about Zaheer, Zaheer is actually ranked as no 2 best batsmen of all time on ICC all time list only behind Viv. However I don't take that list seriously, I already proved last time that Zaheer was an utter clown in non English and non Pakistani conditons.

He's one of if not the best batsmen to ever play on English and Pakistani soil and no one, not even viv or Sachin have managed to play better in such conditons but he was useless in every other conditon.

He avg 30 in every other country he's ever played odi in irrespective of the opponent.

This is the issue with fans like you, you generalise everything and don't understand that everything in cricket is individual + context based.

I already showed you Bevan avg 55 and 60 against 2 oppositions. It's not my fault that Australia mismanaged him in test cricket in the same way Pakistan consistently mismanaged Fakhar in t20 and test cricket despite him being miles > Rizzu, Babar, Shan, Imam and Abdullah irrespective of formats.

Bevan would have kicked off and had a stellar test career if Australia trusted him and gave him more games.

Sachin played in 3 different eras, dominated in 3 different eras, Adjusted to 3 different eras and was the best batter across 3 different eras while Kohli played in cricket's easiest era and has consistently proven himself to be damn near useless if certain pitch conditons don't go his way.

Pakistan vs India 2012 series is another example of Kohli not living up to the mark in swinging conditons as that series had a test match pitch where 200-240 was the norm. Infact Dhoni actually played better and avoided a humiliating whitewash for India
Click to expand...
Here we go, another round of hyperbole, if you keep on dealing with coulda woulda shoulda then you will keep living in delusion.

Bevan is an example of a test failure who succeeded in odis.
If he averages 55 against two opposition that doesn’t change the fact he is a failed test cricketer.

I don’t need lessons on context or cricket, first go and learn how to calculate averages.


Picking up some examples from Kohlis career doesn’t prove your theory, did you not start watching cricket when he score 590 runs in England, what about the Odi series in SouthAfrica where he was batting on a different pitch to others. Was he damn near useless

Bevan would have, Australia could have, Miandad should have, what kind of arguments are these :yk:yk

Argue on facts not conjecture.

My point about players technique being a product of their era is a universal truth. There is a reason why the strike rate in test cricket is increasing, new players are more attacking as they play a lot of t20.

Also if I try your argument, I can say Kohli could have done better had he not focused on t20s like the players of the 90s and 80s, but then its a conjecture.
 
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