What's new

[PICTURES] How do you rate Ben Stokes as an all-rounder across formats?

T

Ted123

Tape Ball Star
Joined
Sep 26, 2017
Runs
653
Ben Stokes is arguably the best all-rounder in the world and his ability to win his team matches with both ball goes beyond statistics. First look into stats: -

Tests: -

Matches: - 47

Runs: - 2800
100s: - 6
Bat avg: - 33.72

Wkt: - 112
Bowl avg: - 33.45
5-fers: - 4

Do you think he will end up as an test ATG?
 
Statistics average but on his day he can dwarf any other all rounder today.
 
Quality test player but mediocre in LOs. He literally lost England that WT20 on own.
 
One of the best ARs in the world but not the best in either format.

In tests Ashwin is better and in ODIs Shakib Al Hasan is better.
 
the_outsider said:
One of the best ARs in the world but not the best in either format.

In tests Ashwin is better and in ODIs Shakib Al Hasan is better.
Click to expand...

Ashwin is not comparable to him as an all-rounder. Their batting stats may not be very different, but there is a big difference in terms of how they are perceived and the aura that they carry.

Unlike Stokes, Ashwin is not viewed as a genuine threat with the bat or a game changer, and that is because Stokes’ best with the bat is far and beyond Ashwin’s best.

Their statistics do not reflect the big gap between their batting ability. If Stokes bats for two sessions, he can take the game away from the opposition. Ashwin does not have that sort of influence. He is just a bowler who is competent with the bat.

As all-rounders, their is no comparison between the two. Stokes does not have much competition in Tests.
 
Mamoon said:
Ashwin is not comparable to him as an all-rounder. Their batting stats may not be very different, but there is a big difference in terms of how they are perceived and the aura that they carry.

Unlike Stokes, Ashwin is not viewed as a genuine threat with the bat or a game changer, and that is because Stokes’ best with the bat is far and beyond Ashwin’s best.

Their statistics do not reflect the big gap between their batting ability. If Stokes bats for two sessions, he can take the game away from the opposition. Ashwin does not have that sort of influence. He is just a bowler who is competent with the bat.

As all-rounders, their is no comparison between the two. Stokes does not have much competition in Tests.
Click to expand...

Agreed Mamoon. But the same thing can be said in reverse when it comes to bowling.

If we look at primary skills of Ashwin (bowling) and Stokes (batting), then in my opinion Ashwin is a far better bowler than Stokes is as a batsman.

When it comes to their secondary skills, Stokes (bowling) is mostly a threat at home (and equivalent bowling conditions) and Ashwin (batting) is a threat at home and similar conditions. Stokes isn't considered a genuine threat or game changer with the ball on SC pitches just like Ashwin isn't considered a threat with the bat on SENA pitches.

That's why I said Ashwin is better overall. Because in terms of their primary skill, Ashwin is ahead.
 
Last edited:
Highly Overrated!!!!

Bowling average of 37 and Batting average of 32 across T20/ODI/Tests. A poster boy of an allrounder that is neither here nor there. You can't rely on him to win you the match with the ball consistently nor with his batting.
 
the_outsider said:
Agreed Mamoon. But the same thing can be said in reverse when it comes to bowling.

If we look at primary skills of Ashwin (bowling) and Stokes (batting), then in my opinion Ashwin is a far better bowler than Stokes is as a batsman.

When it comes to their secondary skills, Stokes (bowling) is mostly a threat at home (and equivalent bowling conditions) and Ashwin (batting) is a threat at home and similar conditions. Stokes isn't considered a genuine threat or game changer with the ball on SC pitches just like Ashwin isn't considered a threat with the bat on SENA pitches.

That's why I said Ashwin is better overall. Because in terms of their primary skill, Ashwin is ahead.
Click to expand...

It is indeed highly debatable if Stokes is a more valuable cricketer than Ashwin, but the latter is not categorised as an all-rounder. He is a specialist spinner who can bat adequately - he is hardly seen or classified by most observers as an all-rounder.
 
Not bad, but Holder is better.

I could also see Faheem passing Stokes as an all-round player soon.
 
He should be locked up, beyond that he is mediocre. His honey moon period is over, purely selected on his blue moon performances
 
His stats reflects his performances too. In the current era he is arguably the best fast bowling AR in Tests.

Faheem has put some decent batting performces in his short test career and is imo better bowler too. So he could overtake stokes soon. Just needs to focus a bit more on his batting
 
He is inconsistent but he is capable of producing match winning knocks with the bat. With the ball he is a threat but it's his batting which is his stronger suit.

He's a good all rounder but thought he would have taken his game to the next level by now but hasn't. Let's see if he can turn it around in the next couple of years.
 
the_outsider said:
Agreed Mamoon. But the same thing can be said in reverse when it comes to bowling.

If we look at primary skills of Ashwin (bowling) and Stokes (batting), then in my opinion Ashwin is a far better bowler than Stokes is as a batsman.

When it comes to their secondary skills, Stokes (bowling) is mostly a threat at home (and equivalent bowling conditions) and Ashwin (batting) is a threat at home and similar conditions. Stokes isn't considered a genuine threat or game changer with the ball on SC pitches just like Ashwin isn't considered a threat with the bat on SENA pitches.

That's why I said Ashwin is better overall. Because in terms of their primary skill, Ashwin is ahead.
Click to expand...

Stokes averages better in Asia than any other continent with the ball. He's an effective old ball bowler who gets some good reverse swing at a decent pace, don't know where you get the impression he's mostly a threat in home (or similar) conditions.
 
He's a match winner all rounder, and heads and heels above players like Ashwin etc, who can make no impact outside Asia either as a bowler or batsman. Has test centuries in Australia, India, SA and England as well as 5fers in Australia, India, England and a 4fer in SA. On those stats alone he's a better performer than many established batsmen and bowlers.

For me, he's the most important wicket in next year world cup alongside Butler. They are the Yuvraj-Dhoni 2011 kindish partnership in 2019.
 
HitWicket said:
Stokes averages better in Asia than any other continent with the ball. He's an effective old ball bowler who gets some good reverse swing at a decent pace, don't know where you get the impression he's mostly a threat in home (or similar) conditions.
Click to expand...

His bowling stats in Asia is completely misleading. In BD he has a bowling avg of 10. Rest of Asia it's 44.

Of the 8 wickets he got in India in 2016, 5 were of the lower order. I saw him throughout that tour in 2016 and he hardly ever looked threatening.
 
I don't find him someone who can be any sort of inspiration to youngsters or kids. He is a quality test player but an uninspiring cricketer. Prefer Root over him.
 
I would have Ben in my team any time of day regardless of what format. He gives it all.
 
Hands down best all-rounder in the world. Whether with bat or ball, when he gets going he can easily change the tide of the game to his team's favour. In that regard, he's like Freddie.
 
World Cup 2019: Ben Stokes can 'steal the show' for England, feels Andrew Flintoff

Andrew Flintoff believes Ben Stokes can “steal the show” for England in a home season featuring both the World Cup and the Ashes.

For the first time since the inaugural men’s World Cup in 1975, England are staging arguably the two biggest events in their calendar — the one-day showpiece and a Test series against arch-rivals Australia — in the same season.

For a multi-format cricketer such as Stokes, a dynamic pace-bowling allrounder of a similar kind to the now-retired Flintoff, it could be a career-defining summer.

Stokes, however, has yet to hit the heights he showed before being acquitted of affray by an English court last year following an incident outside a Bristol nightclub in the early hours of the morning.

Flintoff believes Stokes’ bowling confidence may have been set back by being hit for four successive sixes by West Indies’ Carlos Brathwaite in the last over of the 2016 World Twenty20 final in Kolkata that England had been poised to win.

But Flintoff said that was partly a consequence of Stokes’ willingness to take responsibility at key stages.

“With Ben he’s just different,” Flintoff told reporters in London on Tuesday. “As a batter he can bat three, he can bat four –- his bowling’s getting better all the time.”

“The World T20 probably knocked his confidence a little bit. That can happen, bowling at the death,” added Flintoff at an event to publicise the official song of the World Cup, ‘Stand By‘ by Loryn and Rudimental. “He’s always in the big moments of a game. He seems to be that lad who lifts the team.”

Former England captain Flintoff’s career also featured its fair share of off-field controversy, with the 41-year-old saying this could take a toll on a player’s form.

“I think since what happened the year before last, it’s always hard sometimes,” he said. “You’ve just got to find your feet again. You’re playing for the team but you’re also playing a little bit for acceptance as well — for the crowd, for the people coming to watch you.

“I think he has come through the other side and I think we’re about to see the best of Ben Stokes. Or I hope so, because I genuinely love watching him.”

Flintoff, a central figure with both bat and ball when England regained the Ashes on home soil in 2005, said the season ahead would be the ideal stage for Stokes to shine.

“World Cup, Ashes –- it’s all to play for,” he insisted. “As a character and player like Ben, you wouldn’t be surprised if he just steals the show. We can (then) all forget about 2005 and move on with ourselves!”

https://www.cricketcountry.com/news...show-for-england-feels-andrew-flintoff-841079
 
One of those blokes, like Flintoff before, whose value to the side transcends numbers. He should be more consistent with the bat and has trouble against good spinners, but can take the game away fast if he gets his eye in. He is being handicapped by the terrible top order, having to do repair jobs instead of build on a platform.

His bowling is aggressive and really helps the other bowlers.

Far and away the best catcher since Collingwood too.
 
Overall, as a player, he has to be one of the best of the last 15 years.
Like most english players, he hasn't played much white ball but still managed to win an ODI world cup and a T20 world cup for his country.

As a match winner in test cricket, he is second to none over the past 15 years. Stokes, Smith and Steyn are the three bigest matchwinners in the format in the past 15 years.
 
Champion player.
He has been the best bowler of the series so far. And that is quite an achievement because he was not bowling regularly for some time and also there are some very fine bowlers in the series.
 
When he bowls and bats, he is among the best in the world but his body gives up on him more often. Is comfortably the best bowler in English side atm.
 
He is a great player but in recent times wasn't really playing as an all rounder so it's nice to see him bowling again. I think seeing him charging in over after over really lifts his side and the spectators too.

He is a wonderful player, at times seems driven by sheer willpower, we are lucky that England values test cricket so highly and he is willing to put himself under such strain for his country time and time again.

We can evaluate how much of all rounder he is and where he stands amongst the great all rounders when he retires, for now let's enjoy watching him play.
 
@Mamoon. Tell us again how he’s finished as a cricketer? Yet outperforming all your favourites with bat and ball.

It must be a record to be so consistently wrong about something.

But we all know you.

You will keep hammering at this. Eventually stokes will retire (a GOAT) and you will say ‘Aha, I was right when I said he was finished 5 years ago’.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Highest wicket taker in this series on either side, finding form with the bat, inspirational captaincy leading from the front.

Also got a completely overstated and reactionary earful from the usual suspects in the English “fanbase” for his decision at the toss after one session, again, and still he has been proven 100% correct to bowl first in Manchester.

Stokes is a very good England captain.
 
It’s crazy to think stokes took over the team for Root (fantastic player, terrible captain) and everyone said it wouldn’t make a difference.

He took a side that lost literally everything to winning almost everything. They’ve had some tough series, but anything you hear and read about not just his infield captaincy but the man management, team selection, dressing room environment makes you realise what a gem of a cricketer he is and England is lucky to have him.

Single handedly won them World Cups in both limited overs format and now incredible captain and performer.

I’m struggling to think if anyone comes close to him in terms of overall impact to English cricket ever.
 
As the thread is about all three formats, I was thinking, is there any other cricketer who has Such iconic innings in all three formats :
- T20 : wolrd cup winning vs Pakistan
- ODI : wolrd cup winning vs NZ
- Test : that 135 at Leeds vs Australia.

I can't think of any other cricketer doing the same.
 
James said:
Highest wicket taker in this series on either side, finding form with the bat, inspirational captaincy leading from the front.

Also got a completely overstated and reactionary earful from the usual suspects in the English “fanbase” for his decision at the toss after one session, again, and still he has been proven 100% correct to bowl first in Manchester.

Stokes is a very good England captain.
Click to expand...
His bowling is sensational in the series. He could have taken more five fors, but isn't being selfish.
 
Forum363 said:
@Mamoon. Tell us again how he’s finished as a cricketer? Yet outperforming all your favourites with bat and ball.

It must be a record to be so consistently wrong about something.

But we all know you.

You will keep hammering at this. Eventually stokes will retire (a GOAT) and you will say ‘Aha, I was right when I said he was finished 5 years ago’.
Click to expand...
First good series in 4 years and you are acting as if he has cured cancer. This drives home the point that he is washed and has been given a free ride as an individual contributor for years.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mamoon said:
First good series in 4 years and you are acting as if he has cured cancer. This drives home the point that he is washed and has been given a free ride as an individual contributor for years.
Click to expand...
I remember you were a big fan of Stokes in his early years, second only to me.
I know your views have changed a lot on cricket (won't comment on that), but what about Ben Stokes ? Why so much have for the bigest match winner of the last 15 years? (along Steyn and Smith).
 
Mobashir said:
I remember you were a big fan of Stokes in his early years, second only to me.
I know your views have changed a lot on cricket (won't comment on that), but what about Ben Stokes ? Why so much have for the bigest match winner of the last 15 years? (along Steyn and Smith).
Click to expand...
There are several reasons why I lost respect for Stokes and thank you for asking this question.

The way he sat out of the 2021 series vs India and the T20 World Cup was extremely selfish. He did not have any injury at all but he sat out because he was dealing with his father’s death.

While I understand that different people deal with grief differently, not many people have the luxury of taking 6 months off from their job to deal with it. He should have toughened up and played.

Then in 2022, he retired from ODIs for no good reason. He made an excuse that he wants to manage workload, but when it came to IPL, he was always available. Retiring from ODIs a year before the World Cup was again a selfish act.

To add to this, he had a change of heart few months before the World Cup, and took up the spot of players who had been playing ODIs since 2022 and had dreamt of playing the World Cup for England.

He should not have played the 2023 World Cup after retiring, or he should not have retired in the first place. Both selfish decisions. That decision proved to be a waste anyway, and he flopped big time.

This, along with over-glorification of his captaincy in spite of failure in Ashes, in India and Pakistan and over-protection of his poor individual performances in the last 3-4 has made him very unlikable for me.

Until 2021, he was probably my favorite cricketer.
 
Mamoon said:
There are several reasons why I lost respect for Stokes and thank you for asking this question.

The way he sat out of the 2021 series vs India and the T20 World Cup was extremely selfish. He did not have any injury at all but he sat out because he was dealing with his father’s death.

While I understand that different people deal with grief differently, not many people have the luxury of taking 6 months off from their job to deal with it. He should have toughened up and played.

Then in 2022, he retired from ODIs for no good reason. He made an excuse that he wants to manage workload, but when it came to IPL, he was always available. Retiring from ODIs a year before the World Cup was again a selfish act.

To add to this, he had a change of heart few months before the World Cup, and took up the spot of players who had been playing ODIs since 2022 and had dreamt of playing the World Cup for England.

He should not have played the 2023 World Cup after retiring, or he should not have retired in the first place. Both selfish decisions. That decision proved to be a waste anyway, and he flopped big time.

This, along with over-glorification of his captaincy in spite of failure in Ashes, in India and Pakistan and over-protection of his poor individual performances in the last 3-4 has made him very unlikable for me.

Until 2021, he was probably my favorite cricketer.
Click to expand...

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but the irony of this attitude but the double standards when it comes to Archer is where it falls apart.

Archer has been moody, missing series, getting injured, breaking covid rules, playing IPL and getting overhyped since the beginning and yet you constantly call him the best bowler in the world. You were gloating how well he did in the previous game even though it was his first match in years and he was out performed by Stokes. He has literally like 50 wickets are an average which is close to Stokes and yet you hail him as some hero.

So no, dont try and rationalise your hate.

It's simple - you thought you were smart by predicting the end of Stokes. He has continued to embarrass you so you have to come up with a non cricketing reason to defend this.
 
Forum363 said:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but the irony of this attitude but the double standards when it comes to Archer is where it falls apart.

Archer has been moody, missing series, getting injured, breaking covid rules, playing IPL and getting overhyped since the beginning and yet you constantly call him the best bowler in the world. You were gloating how well he did in the previous game even though it was his first match in years and he was out performed by Stokes. He has literally like 50 wickets are an average which is close to Stokes and yet you hail him as some hero.

So no, dont try and rationalise your hate.

It's simple - you thought you were smart by predicting the end of Stokes. He has continued to embarrass you so you have to come up with a non cricketing reason to defend this.
Click to expand...
Hating stokes for grieving over his father's death is hypocritical.

Starc literally chose to back down from CT 25, just because he felt like it. Does that mean Starc is a crap player? Or is washed up because he had a few bad series in India?
 
MVP of test cricket this ben stokes guy.
He can do it all. Everything and anything this guy can do it.
He can bat he can bowl he can field he can lead.
I don't think anyone is even close to him in terms of impact in test cricket right now.

He is a brilliant captain he is amazing.
His form with bat hasn't been that good but he makes it up for it in the bowling department.
 
Forum363 said:
It’s crazy to think stokes took over the team for Root (fantastic player, terrible captain) and everyone said it wouldn’t make a difference.

He took a side that lost literally everything to winning almost everything. They’ve had some tough series, but anything you hear and read about not just his infield captaincy but the man management, team selection, dressing room environment makes you realise what a gem of a cricketer he is and England is lucky to have him.

Single handedly won them World Cups in both limited overs format and now incredible captain and performer.

I’m struggling to think if anyone comes close to him in terms of overall impact to English cricket ever.
Click to expand...
I agree. I personally didn't think he should be captain at the time, it came after he had knocked someone out in the street.

But the impact he has on world cricket is undeniable. He will go down as one of the finest captains of all times, there are very captains who have transformed test cricket and conventional cricketing philosophies
 
James said:
Highest wicket taker in this series on either side, finding form with the bat, inspirational captaincy leading from the front.

Also got a completely overstated and reactionary earful from the usual suspects in the English “fanbase” for his decision at the toss after one session, again, and still he has been proven 100% correct to bowl first in Manchester.

Stokes is a very good England captain.
Click to expand...
I confess I was part of that reactionary fanbase on his bowl first decision in the first Test. I have now learned to accept that Ben probably knows more about these things than me!
 
14th Test ton for Stokes... What a game he is having.

---------------

Sky Sports Cricket's Michael Atherton:

"Huge cheer for Ben Stokes.

"All-round excellence from one of England's greatest all-rounders.

"Five wickets in this match and now a Test hundred too, his first for a couple of years, since the 2023 Ashes against Australia at Lord's - so it's been quite a wait, and you can see what it means to him.

"He's the leading wicket-taker in the series, won Player of the Match in the last Test at Lord's. You just feel that his all-round game is coming together now."
 
DeadlyVenom said:
I agree. I personally didn't think he should be captain at the time, it came after he had knocked someone out in the street.

But the impact he has on world cricket is undeniable. He will go down as one of the finest captains of all times, there are very captains who have transformed test cricket and conventional cricketing philosophies
Click to expand...
I hated him as a player and as a person early on. I felt he was overrated by the English media at the beginning and his attitude was terrible.

But from the depths of that fight scandal, being in court, losing family members, the subsequent information that came out about the challenges he dealt with in his personal life.

And then no player in the history of World Cup finals has played such a one man role to get their team the trophy. He did it again in the Ashes test. He did it in the t20 World Cup. And then he was given the captaincy of a team that had lost 8 out of 9 matches.

Hilarious that @Mamoon at the time stated Root should remain as captain and stokes was a terrible choice and would make no difference.

The side immediately went from losing everything to winning 9/10 games. Crazy turnaround. And then you read the articles of how he planned the team, how he supported the likes of Pope. The standard he set and the environment he created.

And you put it all together and you realise this guy is a GOAT that we are lucky to witness. No player in the 2000's onwards has come to his level of impact.
 
Forum363 said:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but the irony of this attitude but the double standards when it comes to Archer is where it falls apart.

Archer has been moody, missing series, getting injured, breaking covid rules, playing IPL and getting overhyped since the beginning and yet you constantly call him the best bowler in the world. You were gloating how well he did in the previous game even though it was his first match in years and he was out performed by Stokes. He has literally like 50 wickets are an average which is close to Stokes and yet you hail him as some hero.

So no, dont try and rationalise your hate.

It's simple - you thought you were smart by predicting the end of Stokes. He has continued to embarrass you so you have to come up with a non cricketing reason to defend this.
Click to expand...
I have been critical of Stokes sitting out and for taking U-turns on retirement when it happened. It is not revisionism.

Stokes has done much better in this series than I expected him to, but that does not change the fact he has been rubbish as an individual player for 2-3 years now. Do you deny it?

Also, your obsession with Archer is unhealthy, but it has been pointed out to you before as well. He has bowled much better than you thought he would, but you don't have the guts to give him his due credit.
 
Mamoon said:
I have been critical of Stokes sitting out and for taking U-turns on retirement when it happened. It is not revisionism.

Stokes has done much better in this series than I expected him to, but that does not change the fact he has been rubbish as an individual player for 2-3 years now. Do you deny it?

Also, your obsession with Archer is unhealthy, but it has been pointed out to you before as well. He has bowled much better than you thought he would, but you don't have the guts to give him his due credit.
Click to expand...

Clearly he has had a lot of injuries and is past his prime. But yes I do deny that he's been rubbish because he is a captain and allrounder so his role is judged by more than his pure stats. He has impact on the game often, despite the injuries he's faced.

I accepted archer bowled well and is decent, as I have many times. He is a good bowler and has a brilliant short ball. However this is specifically to you and many pundits calling him the best bowler in the world and hyping him up repeatedly despite him having 50 wickets in 6 years, constantly getting injured and having a far worse attitude than Stokes.

You criticised stokes for sitting out/ playing IPL, but not archer who is more injury prone? What about when during the uncertain and tense covid times England arranged a hugely important series, Archer broke the rules deliberately, lied about it and hid it, risked millions of pounds and the health of his colleagues, then when he accidentally admitted it and was quarantined in a cushy hotel, had the nerve to play the victim card and act like he was the one wronged. Or the fact that he tweeted against criticism in the middle of a test instead of focussing on his game. I've answered your points now address those.

If archer turns his game round tomorrow, achieves half of what stokes has achieved for English cricket, I will hold my hands up and say I was wrong and will personally apologise to you.

But if he continues to get a few wickets every game, gets injured repeatedly, has a terrible attitude, and averages the same as an all rounder, while subsequently getting hyped for bowling 'fast', I will continue with my assessment - that he is the most overrated cricketer I have seen for the past few decades. Imagine if Wahab Riaz or Neil Wagner were mentioned in the same breath as Cummins, Rabada, Bumrah etc consistently. Thats how it is with Archer.
 
harshjoshi87 said:
Stokes's only issue is he plays only tests.
Click to expand...
He's achieved everything he could achieved in limited overs and has rightly moved over to let the next generation take over, especially with the amount of Tests England play and the fact that he's at the end of his career.
 
FYI: Ben Stokes, who brought up 7,000 Test runs during his 141 against India, is also only the third player to combine that milestone with 200 Test wickets
 
Stokes joins exclusive Test all-rounders list

Ben Stokes reached a special milestone on Day 3 of the fourth Test against India in Manchester.
England captain Ben Stokes brought up 7000 Test runs in style with a splendid six early on Day 3 in Manchester.

In doing so, Stokes became just the third all-rounder in Test history to achieve the double of 7000 runs and 200 wickets, joining the exclusive company of Sir Garfield Sobers and Jacques Kallis.

He had brought up his 200th Test wicket last year at Lord’s against the West Indies.

The century against India was a significant one for Stokes as it ended a two-year wait for a Test hundred, his last coming during the Ashes in July 2023.

It was a gritty knock from the 34-year-old, who fought through cramps on Day 3 and had to briefly leave the field before returning to the crease following Jamie Smith’s dismissal.

Like Day 4, Day 3 was also a milestone-filled day for England. Joe Root climbed to second on the all-time Test run-scorers list, going past Rahul Dravid (13,288), Jacques Kallis (13,289) and Ricky Ponting (13,378) during his knock of 150.

Root, with 13,409 runs after his first innings in the ongoing Test, now trails only Sachin Tendulkar (15,921) on the all-time list of Test run-scorers

The centuries from Stokes and Root, combined with fifties from openers Ben Duckett and Zak Crawley, have propelled England into a dominant position with a sizeable lead.

Stokes had earlier made a major impact with the ball as well, claiming a five-wicket haul to restrict India to 358 in their first innings.

With a 2-1 lead in the series – thanks to dramatic wins in Leeds and Lord’s – England have momentum on their side. India’s only win came in emphatic fashion at Edgbaston, where they emerged victorious by 336 runs.

Soure: ICC
 
He performs when the team needs someone to take wickets or score runs.He would have taken many more wickets if he didn’t suffer from injuries.
 
Forum363 said:
Clearly he has had a lot of injuries and is past his prime. But yes I do deny that he's been rubbish because he is a captain and allrounder so his role is judged by more than his pure stats. He has impact on the game often, despite the injuries he's faced.

I accepted archer bowled well and is decent, as I have many times. He is a good bowler and has a brilliant short ball. However this is specifically to you and many pundits calling him the best bowler in the world and hyping him up repeatedly despite him having 50 wickets in 6 years, constantly getting injured and having a far worse attitude than Stokes.

You criticised stokes for sitting out/ playing IPL, but not archer who is more injury prone? What about when during the uncertain and tense covid times England arranged a hugely important series, Archer broke the rules deliberately, lied about it and hid it, risked millions of pounds and the health of his colleagues, then when he accidentally admitted it and was quarantined in a cushy hotel, had the nerve to play the victim card and act like he was the one wronged. Or the fact that he tweeted against criticism in the middle of a test instead of focussing on his game. I've answered your points now address those.

If archer turns his game round tomorrow, achieves half of what stokes has achieved for English cricket, I will hold my hands up and say I was wrong and will personally apologise to you.

But if he continues to get a few wickets every game, gets injured repeatedly, has a terrible attitude, and averages the same as an all rounder, while subsequently getting hyped for bowling 'fast', I will continue with my assessment - that he is the most overrated cricketer I have seen for the past few decades. Imagine if Wahab Riaz or Neil Wagner were mentioned in the same breath as Cummins, Rabada, Bumrah etc consistently. Thats how it is with Archer.
Click to expand...
Why would you personally apologize to me? I’m not Archer’s dad. That’s the funniest thing I have read in a long time.
 
Mamoon said:
Why would you personally apologize to me? I’m not Archer’s dad. That’s the funniest thing I have read in a long time.
Click to expand...

Because you repeatedly overhype him. So are you not addressing any of the points as I addressed your questions clearly?
 
The Bald Eagle said:
@Devadwal how Goat and new prince trailing a guy like Stokes #kp emoji
Click to expand...
People's who hide under Wimbledon forget that jaiswal scored 712@90 with two double Hundred when England last tour india for a test series while none of England players scored half of jaiswal runs in that series.

Jaiswal already scored a century and 80+ score on this series.

Debut match century for Jaiswal as an opener in australia, England and westindies while some fraud can't even score 3 runs Mark's in debut test match in Those country .

:kp
 
No, he is not. He hasn’t won his team a test match in Australia or India yet.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Ab Fan
Who is the greatest Test all-rounder of this generation?
2
Replies
128
Views
6K
Ab Fan
Ab Fan
S
Is Joe Root a better all rounder than Ben Stokes ?
Replies
17
Views
2K
BouncerGuy
BouncerGuy
Unbiased-Fan
Who do you think are the top 10 greatest ODI batters of all time?
2
Replies
98
Views
7K
Fanboy375
Fanboy375
BouncerGuy
Nominations for the World Test Championship (2023-25) Team of the Tournament
Replies
18
Views
794
mominsaigol
mominsaigol
Cricket Warrior
ICC World Cup 2023: Afghanistan (284 all out) beat England (215 all out) by 69 runs in shock ICC Cricket World Cup win
9 10 11
Replies
802
Views
19K
FearlessRoar
FearlessRoar
Back
Top