[PICTURES/VIDEOS] Babar Azam’s failures against India

[mominsaigol]

Again not answering me about dominating the last WC instead of naming me random batters in the world.
Let me get this straight, you are again trying to belittle a batter, now have courage to listen.

Gill and Rahul are not even close to Babar as far as all 3 formats are concerned. Gill's test career has been abysmal so far. It is funny how you can take names of random cricketers just to belittle Babar.

Babar is head and shoulders above of Smith, Babar on one leg is a better white ball batter than smith and is also better than Warner and Head who just started playing regularly at the of 30.

Babar is a better all format batter than any batter of England. Root is done in T20is, the last T20i he played was 7 years ago and similarly Buttler is done in Tests. I don't even want to mention Malan here

Conway and Mitchel have been good across formats but they are no Babar either, let them play a little more and you'd come to see the reality. Williamson is way behind than Babar in White ball formats at least. Let's not forget the SF both played 11 months ago.

No SA Batsman is even close to Babar and Kusal Mendis is not even half the player Babar is.

You become great by consistency and not by one exceptional innings.

I am sure you must have been saying Shahid Afridi is a better batter than Tendu 2 decades ago because his "impact" on the match with a couple of innings was more than Tendulkar ever had.

I believe you're one of the senior posters here. It is about time @Mamoon stop embarassing yourself.

Are you talking about their stats in odi, t20 and tests? All combined? Or 1 by 1?

 

[jnaveen1980]

Workload managment is not for a batter in 20s. For seamers, sure. That was our only away tour in last 2 years of cycle. He needed to play it of course, at least 2/3 games. Netherlands would have beaten us otherwise. That is how much reliant we are on one batter. The series he was rested for. We lost it to afghanistan.
And i am going to correct you with this myth of not trying new player too. We tried Mohammad Haris in the middle order in the same series and he failed to deliver. We have tried all the seamers that we have be it Dahani, Hasnain, Azam khan, Musa or whoever.

The problem is that our talent and pool of players is limited. We honestly don't have Gaikwad or Jaiswal in our domestic. The ones that we have, you are seeing them in the WC (Saud, Abdullah)

I am watching cricket since 1999. Have been following domestic since 2012. No batter is/was even close to Babar Azam in white ball cricket. He has taken cricket forward. Let's give him the due respect instead of riding on a bandwagon of wrongly critisizing him.

Recently world T20 champions England lost 0-3 to one of the poorest T20 side Bangladesh. They didn't actually care. Australia lost T20 series to BD in BD right before their world T20 win in 2021. Did that matter. india also did not play main players against BD lost 3 out of 4 matches against them. Nobody cares losing an odd match to lower ranked side. You don't have to win.

 

[heddie19]

So if Babar is injured what will happen? You need to expose yourself to such reality proactively. If you think Netherlands > Pakistan minus Babar then that is even more a serious problem to address.

Babar missed a test series vs NZ due to an injury. That was a ball hit on his thumb. I have never seen any better getting injured because he is playing too much that in his 20s. Also note that despite of playing too much, the number of matches he played are less than the number of matches other premier batter played

 

[heddie19]

Are you talking about their stats in odi, t20 and tests? All combined? Or 1 by 1?

Read my post again and you will understand. The point is that in order to be a world class batter across formats, you need to playing all 3 formats and half of the player that he mentioned don't even play all formats. Buttler, Malan, Miller ain't playing test, Root ain't playing T20is. They are not sitting out due to their choice that is because they are not good enough for a specific format. In order to be the best batter for any time, you need to be playing all formats well enough for a number of years and those players are very, very less.

 

[mominsaigol]

You need to demolish your ego first. and sure take your time, find some replies. Try a little harder to belittle him further
I am not going anywhere neither is world no. 1 batter for almost 1000 days

The icc rankings at this point are as relevant as chacha's statements on Pakistan being the no 1 cricket team in the world.

 

[mominsaigol]

Cricinfo will talk better about stats. Read my post again and you will understand. The point is that in order to be a world class batter across formats, you need to playing all 3 formats and half of the player that he mentioned don't even play all formats. Buttler, Malan, Miller ain't playing test, Root ain't playing T20is. They are not sitting out due to their choice that is because they are not good enough for a specific format. In order to be the best batter for any time, you need to be playing all formats well enough for a number of years and those players are very, very less.

That's not true though.

Sachin never played t20 even when it was introduced in 2007, the guy has like 1 t20 only.

 

[heddie19]

That's not true though.

Sachin never played t20 even when it was introduced in 2007, the guy has like 1 t20 only.

No one says " Sachin, you are not the god of cricket because you never played international t20"

And Bradman never played an ODI. You fail to understand what I am trying to say everytime.

 

[hass]

Take Babar and Rizwan out of this team and bring in any replacement you want from Pakistan. This team will rarely cross 220.

They’re not perfect but they know they are in a mid table team (in relation to the international competition). It’s a similar problem for the best players in the lesser sides that know once they’re gone it’s game over but at a much less extreme scale.

In a mid table team you have to find the delicate balance between taking your opportunities when available but also not overreaching on any delivery.

The biggest failure is the lack of consistency and quality in the team around them. We have built up many batsmen around them for them not to stick around or be consistent.

Fakhar, Imam, Haris Sohail, Iftikhar, Asad, Shan and our bum allrounders like Shadab and Nawaz. So many players have come in, looked class for a short while then fallen by the wayside. Right now our hopes are in Abdullah Shafique. Fact is none of the above have stayed consistent like Babar and Rizwan. Until the load is lightened it’s not too different to the Inzi, Yousuf, Younis days where everything was on them every game.

 

[RyanRyan10]

Some very disrespectful comments on Babar on this thread.

 

[Mamoon]

Again not answering me about dominating the last WC instead of naming me random batters in the world.
Let me get this straight, you are again trying to belittle a batter, now have courage to listen.

What answer are you looking for?

Babar’s deluded fans rave about the World Cup as if he set it on fire. He did not, he wasn’t even among the top 5 run scorers.

Rohit, Warner, Shakib, Williamson and Root all scored more runs than him. That is off the top of my head. Maybe I forgot a player or two who out scored him.

Babar had a good tournament like Kohli and quite a few other batsmen. That is it.

He is also to be blamed for Pakistan not making the semifinals because he had the chance to chase down the targets against India and Australia but he threw his wickets away.

Gill and Rahul are not even close to Babar as far as all 3 formats are concerned. Gill's test career has been abysmal so far. It is funny how you can take names of random cricketers just to belittle Babar.

Gill is well on his way of surpassing Babar in all three formats and he is clearly more gifted. You just need to watch them both play to realize that he is significantly more talented and he is already better than him even though he is much younger.

Few years down the line, Gill vs Babar will be as lopsided as Kohli vs Babar. Gill is the next great Indian batsman.

As far as Test cricket is concerned, you need to understand that Gill doesn’t have the luxury of batting on Rawalpindi motorway because his captain doesn’t demand roads to boost his numbers.

India prepares turning pitches at home because they want to win matches not boost averages. On the other hand, Pakistan prepares roads for Australia and England because they are scared of losing.

Gill averages in 30s in Tests which is the same as Babar’s Test average in the UAE in 2017-2020 and the same as Babar’s average against South Africa in Pakistan in 2021.

Pakistan produced spicy pitches for South Africa in 2021. They won the series but it came at a cost: their captain got owned by Maharaj and since then, Pakistan has only been serving roads in home Tests to boost Babar’s average but that too has come at a cost.

Australia and England beat Pakistan because they have better batsmen and the Pakistani bowlers had nothing for them in the pitch.

It seems that for Babar, scoring runs at home is more important than winning Tests.

During Kohli’s captaincy, India produced rank turners at home series after series. Kohli became the most successful Asian Test captain of all time, Ashwin and Jadeja averaged 21-22 and Kohli himself averaged 70+ on pitches that were extremely conductive to spin bowling.

This is what truly great players do. Why doesn’t Babar back himself to dominate and plunder runs on tank turners? Not good enough?

Babar has less Test hundreds outside of Asia than a bowling all-rounder like Ashwin let alone Rahul and you think it is blasphemy to compare Rahul and Gill with him.

This is what delusion looks like. Give Gill and Rahul highways in Tests and B and C attacks in white ball and they will make Babar look like a nobody.

Babar is head and shoulders above of Smith, Babar on one leg is a better white ball batter than smith and is also better than Warner and Head who just started playing regularly at the of 30.

No he is not. You have to understand that they had different circumstances not because they are inferior players.

Australia don’t play many white ball matches with their full strength team because they use matches against small teams like Pakistan, Sri Lanka, West Indies etc. to test bench players.

Smith doesn’t have the luxury of playing every match against B and C sides on flat wickets.

Take Babar out of all the ODIs and T20s that Babar has played against B and C attacks over the last few years and replace him with Smith. Do you really think he will not score heavily?

Babar is a better all format batter than any batter of England. Root is done in T20is, the last T20i he played was 7 years ago and similarly Buttler is done in Tests. I don't even want to mention Malan here

I was talking about ODIs only. What is the point of bringing Root and T20Is?

Anyway, Babar will also be “done” in T20Is if Pakistan had Bairstow, Buttler, Roy, Livingstone, Malan, Hales etc. type players.

Babar is a better Test player than Buttler, I agree, but Buttler is in a different league in white ball cricket.

Conway and Mitchel have been good across formats but they are no Babar either, let them play a little more and you'd come to see the reality. Williamson is way behind than Babar in White ball formats at least. Let's not forget the SF both played 11 months ago.

Re Williamson, what I said about Smith applies to him too. Williamson is overrated for sure, but he is as good as Babar if not better.

Re Conway and Mitchell, the more they play, the more obvious it will become that they are better than Babar across all formats. That is the only reality.

No SA Batsman is even close to Babar and Kusal Mendis is not even half the player Babar is.

Again - not because Babar has more skill than any South African batsman and Mendis but because the circumstances are different.

Do you really think Mendis will struggle on the roads served to Australia and England? Same goes for South African batsmen who were served difficult wickets in 2021 compared to what was prepared for Australia and England in 2022.

No batsman has had it easier than Babar - pray every single game on highways against underpowered attacks. Babar is a very good batsman but he is nothing than that and any very good batsman would be as prolific as him if not more in such circumstances.

You become great by consistency and not by one exceptional innings.

Agreed, but that has nothing to do with the point of discussion.

I am sure you must have been saying Shahid Afridi is a better batter than Tendu 2 decades ago because his "impact" on the match with a couple of innings was more than Tendulkar ever had.

Who says Tendulkar was not impactful? Tendulkar is one of the most impactful players the game has ever seen. That is a white lie served by Pakistani fans who couldn’t digest his greatness.

I believe you're one of the senior posters here. It is about time @Mamoon stop embarassing yourself.

Only people who embarrassing themselves are those who pretend that Babar is the best batsman in the world and call him king.

 

[Mamoon]

Take Babar and Rizwan out of this team and bring in any replacement you want from Pakistan. This team will rarely cross 220.

They’re not perfect but they know they are in a mid table team (in relation to the international competition). It’s a similar problem for the best players in the lesser sides that know once they’re gone it’s game over but at a much less extreme scale.

In a mid table team you have to find the delicate balance between taking your opportunities when available but also not overreaching on any delivery.

The biggest failure is the lack of consistency and quality in the team around them. We have built up many batsmen around them for them not to stick around or be consistent.

Fakhar, Imam, Haris Sohail, Iftikhar, Asad, Shan and our bum allrounders like Shadab and Nawaz. So many players have come in, looked class for a short while then fallen by the wayside. Right now our hopes are in Abdullah Shafique. Fact is none of the above have stayed consistent like Babar and Rizwan. Until the load is lightened it’s not too different to the Inzi, Yousuf, Younis days where everything was on them every game.

I agree with most of what you said, but I don’t think anyone can be dumb enough to ask that Babar should be dropped.

Babar is a very good batsman and by far the best batsman in Pakistan. No one is remotely close.

However, that doesn’t change the fact that he is not as good as some of his hardcore, irrational fans think. He is not the best batsman in the world and he doesn’t have the same career trajectory as Kohli.

 

[shobiii]

@Mamoon - gotta admit you were right about India being a better team than us. Two out of two convincing wins seals it. I was wrong and over confident in our abilities. Still think we have a decent team and can play well but India are playing on a different level these days! Congrats on the convincing win.

 

[Mamoon]

@Mamoon - gotta admit you were right about India being a better team than us. Two out of two convincing wins seals it. I was wrong and over confident in our abilities. Still think we have a decent team and can play well but India are playing on a different level these days! Congrats on the convincing win.

Would have been 3 in 3 if it didn’t rain in the Asia Cup.

There is no way Pakistan was chasing 260+ against Bumrah, Kuldeep and Jadeja on that dodgy pitch.

Pakistani fans celebrated that fantasy win for a week but the reality is that they got away with it.

India is so much better than Pakistan on all fronts. If they bring their A game we don’t stand a chance.

 

[ataullah]

@Mamoon @Saj should pak draft in muhammad haris and just play positively? Usama mir for Shadab? After the world cup give Saim and haris all the freedom to play fearlessly? Can Pak turn it around like England after 2015 world cup? Abdullah Shafiq also looks decent. Had enough of imam and Fakhar.

 

[heddie19]

What answer are you looking for?

Babar’s deluded fans rave about the World Cup as if he set it on fire. He did not, he wasn’t even among the top 5 run scorers.

Rohit, Warner, Shakib, Williamson and Root all scored more runs than him. That is off the top of my head. Maybe I forgot a player or two who out scored him.

Babar had a good tournament like Kohli and quite a few other batsmen. That is it.

He is also to be blamed for Pakistan not making the semifinals because he had the chance to chase down the targets against India and Australia but he threw his wickets away.

Gill is well on his way of surpassing Babar in all three formats and he is clearly more gifted. You just need to watch them both play to realize that he is significantly more talented and he is already better than him even though he is much younger.

Few years down the line, Gill vs Babar will be as lopsided as Kohli vs Babar. Gill is the next great Indian batsman.

As far as Test cricket is concerned, you need to understand that Gill doesn’t have the luxury of batting on Rawalpindi motorway because his captain doesn’t demand roads to boost his numbers.

India prepares turning pitches at home because they want to win matches not boost averages. On the other hand, Pakistan prepares roads for Australia and England because they are scared of losing.

Gill averages in 30s in Tests which is the same as Babar’s Test average in the UAE in 2017-2020 and the same as Babar’s average against South Africa in Pakistan in 2021.

Pakistan produced spicy pitches for South Africa in 2021. They won the series but it came at a cost: their captain got owned by Maharaj and since then, Pakistan has only been serving roads in home Tests to boost Babar’s average but that too has come at a cost.

Australia and England beat Pakistan because they have better batsmen and the Pakistani bowlers had nothing for them in the pitch.

It seems that for Babar, scoring runs at home is more important than winning Tests.

During Kohli’s captaincy, India produced rank turners at home series after series. Kohli became the most successful Asian Test captain of all time, Ashwin and Jadeja averaged 21-22 and Kohli himself averaged 70+ on pitches that were extremely conductive to spin bowling.

This is what truly great players do. Why doesn’t Babar back himself to dominate and plunder runs on tank turners? Not good enough?

Babar has less Test hundreds outside of Asia than a bowling all-rounder like Ashwin let alone Rahul and you think it is blasphemy to compare Rahul and Gill with him.

This is what delusion looks like. Give Gill and Rahul highways in Tests and B and C attacks in white ball and they will make Babar look like a nobody.


No he is not. You have to understand that they had different circumstances not because they are inferior players.

Australia don’t play many white ball matches with their full strength team because they use matches against small teams like Pakistan, Sri Lanka, West Indies etc. to test bench players.

Smith doesn’t have the luxury of playing every match against B and C sides on flat wickets.

Take Babar out of all the ODIs and T20s that Babar has played against B and C attacks over the last few years and replace him with Smith. Do you really think he will not score heavily?

I was talking about ODIs only. What is the point of bringing Root and T20Is?

Anyway, Babar will also be “done” in T20Is if Pakistan had Bairstow, Buttler, Roy, Livingstone, Malan, Hales etc. type players.

Babar is a better Test player than Buttler, I agree, but Buttler is in a different league in white ball cricket.

Re Williamson, what I said about Smith applies to him too. Williamson is overrated for sure, but he is as good as Babar if not better.

Re Conway and Mitchell, the more they play, the more obvious it will become that they are better than Babar across all formats. That is the only reality.

Again - not because Babar has more skill than any South African batsman and Mendis but because the circumstances are different.

Do you really think Mendis will struggle on the roads served to Australia and England? Same goes for South African batsmen who were served difficult wickets in 2021 compared to what was prepared for Australia and England in 2022.

No batsman has had it easier than Babar - pray every single game on highways against underpowered attacks. Babar is a very good batsman but he is nothing than that and any very good batsman would be as prolific as him if not more in such circumstances.

Agreed, but that has nothing to do with the point of discussion.

Who says Tendulkar was not impactful? Tendulkar is one of the most impactful players the game has ever seen. That is a white lie served by Pakistani fans who couldn’t digest his greatness.

Only people who embarrassing themselves are those who pretend that Babar is the best batsman in the world and call him king.

I agree with a few points you made such as Gill playing on pacer's track, him being young for test cricket etc etc. But a few of the things you mentioned are farce as usual. It is not Babar's fault he Played with X attacks or Z attacks. He didn't ask them to send their primary bowlers to IPL. You play what you are given against and even if I try to agree with you, a 22 your old bobby scored century in adelaide oval against starc, zampa, cummins and hazlewood but you'd never mention it.

His every fan discusses his only WC century and I don't need to speak about it again. He smashed a century in his first odi in SA as a captain against Nortje, Rabada and Ngidi but you'll only remember the other century he scored against Lizaad Wiliams and Magala because you're always trying to downplay him.

Furthermore, all of the players you mentioned had the luxury to face d,e,f attacks. The centuries Rohit and Virat scored 10 years ago in 350 chases on the highways and in small grounds (lets not get into a debate on highways now as no one makes more highways than India plus their small boundaries) Their tons were against mckay, doherty etc and the same Sean Abbott I believe which will be used as a C grade bowler while bowling to Babar and becomes an A lister if he bowls to Rohit or Virat. But that will be never mentioned knowing your bias.

Please don't embarrass yourself and do not belittle arguably the best batter ever produced by Paksitan. I don't feel good when disrespecting any other great player but you bring me down to your level. I have played hard-ball cricket myself at school/college/university level as well as netted in Diamond cricket club, Islamabad. I know how hard it is to bat.

Lastly, I don't agree that Shubman is better than Babar on eye-test. He is tremendous but the only batter that looked better than Babar on eye test in my whole life of watching are Tendu, AB, Lara and Maybe Hayden and this is it.

 

[heddie19]

I don't remember saying Sachin wasn't impactful, I mentioned Afridi and you took defensive and mention something which you have been listened before
PS. I rate Sachin the best all-format batter ever. Kallis if it is Tests and Viv if it is ODIs, allthough I haven't seen him play live.

 

[heddie19]

Of course, Babar has hardcore fanbase like every other sportsman around the world. People that claim that he is the best Batter in the world are talking about his consistency across all formats of the game.

I agree with you @Mamoon that Babar isn't having same trajectory as Virat. Virat played with legends/mentors like Sachin, Mahi, Sehwag etc and Babar had no one to nurture him to international level. I have witnessed Kohli's peak and I will admit that his peak/ceiling was slightly higher than Babar's across all formats but right now, or between 2019-2023 no batter was close to Babar as far as performances and consistency is concerned. That could be of course due to other great batters not playing all 3 formats. That's what his fans talk about and of course, overhype him based on that.

Anyone who says he is the greatest ever that any country has produced is surely exageratting him.

But just like Williamson is the best batter NZ ever produced (you can argue on crowe but we're not talking only eye-tests and ability here but career and stats too) Root for England, similarly, I firmy believe that Babar will end up as the greatest Batter Pakistan has ever produced. He won't be as good as Miandad, Younis or MoYo in tests but his white ball mastery will make him the GOAT for Pakistan.

You can't say the same for Virat due to what Tendu has done to India and the international cricket. He inspired multiple generations. Again, not trying to downplay Virat as you do with Babar just stating the fact that how rich India is in terms of Batting talent.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

@Mamoon @Saj should pak draft in muhammad haris and just play positively? Usama mir for Shadab? After the world cup give Saim and haris all the freedom to play fearlessly? Can Pak turn it around like England after 2015 world cup? Abdullah Shafiq also looks decent. Had enough of imam and Fakhar.

Totally agreed! Haris is the one who can provide u a flying start if he stays on crease for few overs.

Replacing Fakhar with Imam will not certainly help because fakhar's confidence has totally shattered so its better to bench both of them and opt harris an an opener along side Abdullah.

 

[Farabi]

It is the other way around.

His fans don’t have faith in him and have low expectations which is why they are satisfied with a 50 (57) from their “King” and so-called number one batsman in the world.

If Pakistan lose this match, Babar will be responsible. He got out to a nothing delivery right when Pakistan were taking complete control.

Big players don’t do that. They run away with the game when they are on top. Kohli has done it so many times against Pakistan and Babar almost never does it against India.

Of all the big name players Pakistan has produced, he has had the least impact against India.

True. I’ll just add, so far. He’s still 10 more years in him. We’ll see.

 

[mominsaigol]

One of the biggest things a player needs to do in life is to become the next big thing.

The problem with babar is that all these comparisons of Bradman and kohli just proves why he is no where close to the best.

No one says Kohli is the next Sachin, Kohli is an atg. Kohli is kohli, Sachin is Sachin, Viv was viv Bradman was Bradman.

Babar azam should try to become a player so great that people in the future will say I wanna be the next babar azam lol.

That's the dilemma. Babar does have the ability to improve but this culture management has created has caused this downfall. Hype > Hardwork is the epitome of someone's downfall

 

[zaidihusain]

One of the biggest things a player needs to do in life is to become the next big thing.

The problem with babar is that all these comparisons of Bradman and kohli just proves why he is no where close to the best.

No one says Kohli is the next Sachin, Kohli is an atg. Kohli is kohli, Sachin is Sachin, Viv was viv Bradman was Bradman.

Babar azam should try to become a player so great that people in the future will say I wanna be the next babar azam lol.

That's the dilemma. Babar does have the ability to improve but this culture management has created has caused this downfall. Hype > Hardwork is the epitome of someone's downfall

Unfortunately, the blind fans of Babar are his biggest enemies. He is the best batsman in Pakistan currently, but it is up to him how he performs in next 3-4 years. He has to build his legacy by performing against big teams in big tournaments and win matches for the team.

 

[Suleiman]

Come on dude. Write your name in the history books. Don’t let yet another ICC tournament go by without an impact.

His fan girls may cry, but we’re talking a tournament of dominance. Not just 1 good score and the rest of the innings being binary code.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Unfortunately, the blind fans of Babar are his biggest enemies. He is the best batsman in Pakistan currently, but it is up to him how he performs in next 3-4 years. He has to build his legacy by performing against big teams in big tournaments and win matches for the team.

Sign of legacy is when opponent fans are worried about you. To be honest i don't think any Indian fan is worried about him as much as they were worried about Inzi batting or Anwar batting or even Afridi batting. FOr a brief period i hated Younis khan 's guts for the way he swept the spinners all over the park with ease. That fear factor you create takes you to next level. Deep down i was happy the way Babar batted in the Ahmedabad one dayer as they were not dictating terms on a flat wicket. Legacy is not determined filtered stats by his fan boys. That is earned through sheer domination of opponents so much so they are scared of your stay.

 

[Saanji]

Maliks and Butts faced the likes of Zaheer Khan who is better than any current Pakistani pacer and would walk into the Indian team.

In addition, they faced spinners like Harbhajan and Kumble who would make Babar look like a dunce.

People who didn’t watch cricket in the 2000s think India had a crap bowling attack but that couldn’t be further from the truth.

India had a very good attack in the 2000s as well and Babar wouldn’t have done any better against them.

Babar is not even close to being the best batsman in the world. Almost every top team has a couple of batsmen better than him.

Last 4/5 tournaments have showed that Babar’s hype and perception has been built by bashing underpowered teams.

He is a brilliant batsman against weak teams but just a good batsman against the powerful sides.

He is struggling to outclass the likes of Kohli and Rohit even though he is in prime years while their prime was 5-6 years back.

Is Babar a good batsman? 100%

Do his fans overhype him and think he is better than he actually is? Also 100%

Come on man, our bowling was just average. You can't hype those trundlers. Why do u think ganguly opted to bowl in 2003 world cup. We could chase but we sucked at defending big time.

 

[gazza619]

Babar was hugely responsible for the collapse against India.

I mean what in the world was he thinking playing that stupid dab shot of his.

 

[heddie19]

Come on man, our bowling was just average. You can't hype those trundlers. Why do u think ganguly opted to bowl in 2003 world cup. We could chase but we sucked at defending big time.

Posters here think that Zaheer Khan was better than Bumrah Kumble had a better break and Googly than Kuldeep (no disrespect to his record)

 

[mominsaigol]

Posters here think that Zaheer Khan was better than Bumrah Kumble had a better break and Googly than Kuldeep (no disrespect to his record)

Bumrah > Zaheer Khan
Kumble > Kuldeep (Although kuldeep is the best spinner in the world atm)

 

[heddie19]

Babar was hugely responsible for the collapse against India.

I mean what in the world was he thinking playing that stupid dab shot of his.

That was a stupid **** he tried to play, I agree but he was not responsible for 36/8.

 

[heddie19]

Bumrah > Zaheer Khan
Kumble > Kuldeep (Although kuldeep is the best spinner in the world atm)

Kumble had a very little break. He relied on his flippers and got batsman done leg before. A very smart bowler but skill wise, way behind Kuldeep.

 

[PakPremi]

Babar needs to be relieved of captaincy to focus on his batting and flourish the way he started.

 

[mominsaigol]

Kumble had a very little break. He relied on his flippers and got batsman done leg before. A very smart bowler but skill wise, way behind Kuldeep.

Kumble was superior to kuldeep in the same way waqar younis is superior to bumrah.

In the old era ball tampering was a very very common thing, that's why no one can bowl those banana nonsense swing and spin nowadays.

Only spinners who were superior to kuldeep are
Bhagwath Chandrasekhar and erapali prasanna. Erapali because his arm ball is damn near unplayable and bhagwath because his disability ironically allowed his to spin and bowl at a very awkward length.


Kumbil ball tampered alot lol

 

[heddie19]

Kumble was superior to kuldeep in the same way waqar younis is superior to bumrah.

In the old era ball tampering was a very very common thing, that's why no one can bowl those banana nonsense swing and spin nowadays.

Only spinners who were superior to kuldeep are

Bhagwath Chandrasekhar and erapali prasanna. Erapali because his arm ball is damn near unplayable and bhagwath because his disability ironically allowed his to spin and bowl at a very awkward length.​

Kumbil ball tampered alot lol

Would indian fans agree on Kumble doing ball tempering? Furthermore, I was emphsazing white ball format. Kuldeep > Kumble in ODIs. The tests legend you mentioned, I am not even comparing them with a modern day chinaman.

 

[Saanji]

Posters here think that Zaheer Khan was better than Bumrah Kumble had a better break and Googly than Kuldeep (no disrespect to his record)

Kumble was a medium pacer whose ball turned once in a while.
Mind you, I love and have huge respect for the gentle tall giant who won us so many things.. but he was no match to players of today . Ashwin jadeja kuldeep are better bowlers.
Zaheer laid the foundation for white ball pacers in india and we respect him for that.

 

[heddie19]

Kumble was a medium pacer whose ball turned once in a while.
Mind you, I love and have huge respect for the gentle tall giant who won us so many things.. but he was no match to players of today . Ashwin jadeja kuldeep are better bowlers.
Zaheer laid the foundation for white ball pacers in india and we respect him for that.

Thank you for agreeing.

 

[Saanji]

Would indian fans agree on Kumble doing ball tempering? Furthermore, I was emphsazing white ball format. Kuldeep > Kumble in ODIs. The tests legend you mentioned, I am not even comparing them with a modern day chinaman.

Ball tempering and kumble??

Dude, seriously .. who has ever heard of thing like that. Literally kumble has to be one of the most ethical and fair players to ever played the game.

 

[mominsaigol]

Would indian fans agree on Kumble doing ball tempering? Furthermore, I was emphsazing white ball format. Kuldeep > Kumble in ODIs. The tests legend you mentioned, I am not even comparing them with a modern day chinaman.

No Indian fan would agree on it in the same way pakistani fans are folk loring our legends lol.

Ball tampering was common. Most people did it, I clouding waseem akram. I've seen waseem akram with ball tampering and without.

Without he's class and still almost unplayable on his day, but with ball tampering his swing was so stupid that you might as well just stop playing . One of his deliveries literally landed near the edge of the pitch and fully inswinged onto the wickets which makes zero sense lol.

But even without ball tampering he was class since that unplayable inswing and outswing was done consistently in every match

 

[Saanji]

Kumble was superior to kuldeep in the same way waqar younis is superior to bumrah.

In the old era ball tampering was a very very common thing, that's why no one can bowl those banana nonsense swing and spin nowadays.

Only spinners who were superior to kuldeep are
Bhagwath Chandrasekhar and erapali prasanna. Erapali because his arm ball is damn near unplayable and bhagwath because his disability ironically allowed his to spin and bowl at a very awkward length.


Kumbil ball tampered alot lol

Lol .. if kumble ever tempered.. I will walk naked in the streets.

 

[Saanji]

No Indian fan would agree on it in the same way pakistani fans are folk loring our legends lol.

Ball tampering was common. Most people did it, I clouding waseem akram. I've seen waseem akram with ball tampering and without.

Without he's class and still almost unplayable on his day, but with ball tampering his swing was so stupid that you might as well just stop playing . One of his deliveries literally landed near the edge of the pitch and fully inswinged onto the wickets which makes zero sense lol.

But even without ball tampering he was class since that unplayable inswing and outswing was done consistently in every match

Because there is literally video proofs and confessions from pakistani legends.

Just because they were unethical you will class everyone in that category

 

[Saanji]

Do it

Do you have any proof to back this claim?

 

[ex-q-zit]

Kumble was superior to kuldeep in the same way waqar younis is superior to bumrah.

In the old era ball tampering was a very very common thing, that's why no one can bowl those banana nonsense swing and spin nowadays.

Only spinners who were superior to kuldeep are
Bhagwath Chandrasekhar and erapali prasanna. Erapali because his arm ball is damn near unplayable and bhagwath because his disability ironically allowed his to spin and bowl at a very awkward length.


Kumbil ball tampered alot lol

The ball is usually tampered so that one side is shinier and heavier and helps in reverse swing. How does tampering a ball help a spinner? Unless you mean to say kumble was a swing bowler?

 

[mominsaigol]

Do you have any proof to back this claim?

I'll give you proof once you do it. Send video and I'll upload it on YouTube . Jk jk

It's just a personal opinion, anil kumble is defo one of the best spinners on the planet not taking anything away from him

 

[Bewal Express]

Was the same story against Wanindu Hasaranga last year in the Asia Cup, Adil Rashid in the bilateral T20 series and World Cup Final, and Michael Bracewell in the ODIs earlier this year.

Babar is just not proactive enough against spinners, doesn't play the sweep shot nor has the courage to hit over the top.

All of our great batsmen could murder spin.

He needs to let himself go and look to dominate. We don't need an upmarket Misbah, we want Babar to set himself free especially against spinners.

 

[hass]

@Mamoon @Saj should pak draft in muhammad haris and just play positively? Usama mir for Shadab? After the world cup give Saim and haris all the freedom to play fearlessly? Can Pak turn it around like England after 2015 world cup? Abdullah Shafiq also looks decent. Had enough of imam and Fakhar.

Can't see what Haris would bring to the 50 over side. Maybe as an opener? But players like him tend to get out very quickly tbh. Imam for his faults is still going to get you 30-35 runs. A slow steady start but at least a start. Haris will slap a boundary and likely get caught shortly after because of the intelligence of the opposition bowlers in ODI.

I'd like to be proven wrong but only in T20 can you get away with an attack on sight player without much ability to build an innings if things don't go their way.

 

[Ali T]

Can't see what Haris would bring to the 50 over side. Maybe as an opener? But players like him tend to get out very quickly tbh. Imam for his faults is still going to get you 30-35 runs. A slow steady start but at least a start. Haris will slap a boundary and likely get caught shortly after because of the intelligence of the opposition bowlers in ODI.

I'd like to be proven wrong but only in T20 can you get away with an attack on sight player without much ability to build an innings if things don't go their way.

I agree. Don't think he warrants a place on his team as he hasn't shown to score big runs in the domestic circuit. Needs to prove himself there first

 

[jnaveen1980]

Come on man, our bowling was just average. You can't hype those trundlers. Why do u think ganguly opted to bowl in 2003 world cup. We could chase but we sucked at defending big time.

Actually we did well in that world cup with bowling in every match except in the final where they rolled out a flat deck. Actually with modern thinking 360 was chasable against that attack that day. Nobody got any purchase including Mcgrath. Sheer scoreboard pressure caused India to collapse. The reason they chose to field first was the result of league phase match where the wicket was tougher. India got rolled over cheaply by Australia. So they didn't want that scenario. But final wicket was a belter. So without even reading the condition they blindly opted to field first.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Consistently struggling against a particular team shows that Babar Azam is not mentaly strong.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Again not answering me about dominating the last WC instead of naming me random batters in the world.
Let me get this straight, you are again trying to belittle a batter, now have courage to listen.

Gill and Rahul are not even close to Babar as far as all 3 formats are concerned. Gill's test career has been abysmal so far. It is funny how you can take names of random cricketers just to belittle Babar.

Babar is head and shoulders above of Smith, Babar on one leg is a better white ball batter than smith and is also better than Warner and Head who just started playing regularly at the of 30.

Babar is a better all format batter than any batter of England. Root is done in T20is, the last T20i he played was 7 years ago and similarly Buttler is done in Tests. I don't even want to mention Malan here

Conway and Mitchel have been good across formats but they are no Babar either, let them play a little more and you'd come to see the reality. Williamson is way behind than Babar in White ball formats at least. Let's not forget the SF both played 11 months ago.

No SA Batsman is even close to Babar and Kusal Mendis is not even half the player Babar is.

You become great by consistency and not by one exceptional innings.

I am sure you must have been saying Shahid Afridi is a better batter than Tendu 2 decades ago because his "impact" on the match with a couple of innings was more than Tendulkar ever had.

I believe you're one of the senior posters here. It is about time @Mamoon stop embarassing yourself.

All 3 formats is an excuse. Babar stat pads on the flattest decks in Pakistan in Tests. And bats too slow to be an elite T20 batter.

In ODI's, he is the best #3 in the world but that doesn't make him the best overall batter either.

 

[JaDed]

I don’t think captaincy has suited him that well. What about Rizwan, keepers make good captains.

 

[NishanKonar]

Kumble was superior to kuldeep in the same way waqar younis is superior to bumrah.

In the old era ball tampering was a very very common thing, that's why no one can bowl those banana nonsense swing and spin nowadays.

Only spinners who were superior to kuldeep are
Bhagwath Chandrasekhar and erapali prasanna. Erapali because his arm ball is damn near unplayable and bhagwath because his disability ironically allowed his to spin and bowl at a very awkward length.


Kumbil ball tampered alot lol

Dont think Kumble tampered with the ball. Its just that curators prepared designer pitches for him where the pitch wud crumble on Day 4 / 5 and let him run thru any batting line up !

 

[kron]

Nothing innings.

Flat pitch, excellent platform provided by the openers and all he could muster was a 50 in 57 balls.

He should have put his foot down on India’s throat and taken control of the game.

What a tame dismissal. Looked like a completely ordinary batsman.

He hasn’t had 0.1% of the impact Kohli has had on Pakistan-India matches.

#HeCannotPlayThem

To be fair to him he is playing against the best ever indian bowling attack unlike our past greats who would have also equally struggled vs bumrah siraj kuldeep etc. They don't even have shami or the other guy prasidh playing who has natural bounce.
Not to mention this indian side I just realised is missing pant due to injury and axar who has been impactful for them.

Considering the attack he is facing he did fairly well.

Are they as good as our 99 attack? I don't think there is much difference at all to be honest.

If indian batsmen had to face their own bowlers they would struggle badly too. Current kohli can't play spin or a bowler with bounce and variation like bumrah. He would struggle badly.

I never thought this day would ever come but indian pace attack over the last few years has been way better than ours and is easily top 2 in the world in terms of being an all conditioned attack.

 

[kron]

Threw his wicket away and induced a collapse at a time Pakistan was going steady and frustrating India.

Just a brainless player and captain.

What shocked me is rohit' improved captaincy. As soon as he smelt blood he brought bumrah back. I always thought he was a pathetic captain but recently he really seems to be very tactical and cerebral.

 

[kron]

All big name Pakistani batsmen were prolific against India. Even lesser ones like Shoaib Malik and Butt brought their A game against India.

Babar is the odd one out.

That is true but they never faced an indian attack this good either. So that's there. 2011 india had an ageing but very good attack. 2003 was very good but not great
This current one is something else. Haven't seen an Asian attack this ruthless in ages.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

He's overrated. End of. Hype went to his head

 

[VForVendetta]

All 3 formats is an excuse. Babar stat pads on the flattest decks in Pakistan in Tests. And bats too slow to be an elite T20 batter.

In ODI's, he is the best #3 in the world but that doesn't make him the best overall batter either.

Are you certain about that? Based on last 1 year's performance can he still claim to be the premier #3 odi batsman in the world? Kohli in this same period has been more prolific, consistent & most significantly impactful.

 

[CerebralPatriot]

Lets be frank his innings on Saturday was poor.

Played way to slow considering it was a belter of a pitch.

This is why I am insitent on Saud batting at 3.

He is much more versatile, can take the attack to the bowling and actually build a decent platform. Putting Babar at four will allow for him to better accumulate and put less pressure on the lower order.

 

[VForVendetta]

Actually we did well in that world cup with bowling in every match except in the final where they rolled out a flat deck. Actually with modern thinking 360 was chasable against that attack that day. Nobody got any purchase including Mcgrath. Sheer scoreboard pressure caused India to collapse. The reason they chose to field first was the result of league phase match where the wicket was tougher. India got rolled over cheaply by Australia. So they didn't want that scenario. But final wicket was a belter. So without even reading the condition they blindly opted to field first.

When you say modern thinking I am sure you are implying 2023 or at the least 2013, right? Because nobody was chasing 350+ in 2003, that too against Mcgrath, Lee, Bichel & Hogg. While 300+ chasings had become somewhat regularity in previous years thanks to atleast 3 incredible finishes in previous year; Aus vs Sa at Port Elizabeth, Eng vs Ind the natwest final & Wi vs Ind in that infamous series of run festival. But when it came to world cup or icc tournaments in general 300+ scores were still seen as somewhat impossible task, specially at knock out stages. There's a section of fans who over the years have tried to run a narrative that if Sachin hadn't choked, he could have won the match. I call that bullcrap, even if Sachin scored a hundred the match was still out of India's reach. The deal was sealed the moment they allowed Ponting & Martin to post that gigantic partnership. It was an alien concept at that time to hunt down a total of such magnitude, also a ruthless man like Ponting who had a win-at-any-cost attitude was never gonna allow India or any other team to simply walk away with that total.

 

[Mamoon]

All 3 formats is an excuse. Babar stat pads on the flattest decks in Pakistan in Tests. And bats too slow to be an elite T20 batter.

In ODI's, he is the best #3 in the world but that doesn't make him the best overall batter either.

He is not and never will be as long as Kohli is playing.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Are you certain about that? Based on last 1 year's performance can he still claim to be the premier #3 odi batsman in the world? Kohli in this same period has been more prolific, consistent & most significantly impactful.

1 year is too specific. I'm talking about the previous World Cup cycle. Of course, the quality of bowling attacks he has faced is questionable . But gotta give him his due. Kohli has declined significantly. So has Smith. RVD hasnt been as prolific. So, Babar by default

 

[Nikhil_cric]

He is not and never will be as long as Kohli is playing.

Babar is not as clutch as Kohli and never will be. But Kohli has declined quite a lot and Bobby did smash 'B', 'C' teams of South Africa/Australia/NZ better than any other #3 in ODI bilaterals. Gotta give him some credit, lol

 

[VForVendetta]

Lets be frank his innings on Saturday was poor.

Played way to slow considering it was a belter of a pitch.

This is why I am insitent on Saud batting at 3.

He is much more versatile, can take the attack to the bowling and actually build a decent platform. Putting Babar at four will allow for him to better accumulate and put less pressure on the lower order.

He was more worried about getting his first fifty against Ind, which is why after reaching there, he embarrassingly was about to take his helmet off. Either Rizwan stopped him or he realized it would make him a laughting stock.
You want to put him at number 4 despite his school level footwork against spin? The deeper he bats the more he needs to deal with spin, not to mention the possibility of batting in last 10 overs also increase further. With his nonexistent attacking shots & lack of gear/range you wouldn't want him to get exposed against Wood, Boult, Starc, Rabada on those scenarios where 9/10 rpo would be normal requirement. He couldn't hit a sixer against those guys if his life depended on it. He would try to sneak a single & go to non strike end even if Afridi /Rauf were batting with him. For Saud best solution would be to allow him the no 4 slot, but you know that's not even remotely possible in the current scenario.

 

[Mamoon]

Babar is not as clutch as Kohli and never will be. But Kohli has declined quite a lot and Bobby did smash 'B', 'C' teams of South Africa/Australia/NZ better than any other #3 in ODI bilaterals. Gotta give him some credit, lol

Kohli has played very few meaningless ODIs since 2019. If he was playing every single game against B and C teams like Babar he would still be smashing them harder than Babar.

 

[VForVendetta]

1 year is too specific. I'm talking about the previous World Cup cycle. Of course, the quality of bowling attacks he has faced is questionable . But gotta give him his due. Kohli has declined significantly. So has Smith. RVD hasnt been as prolific. So, Babar by default

Smith has declined & RVD's little honeymoon period is over. They aren't even in the discussion anymore. But even post his prime, Kohli is still multiple times more dangerous & impactful. I am talking about a period where both the guys have played around 20 matches which I wouldn't call a small sample size. The older guy has scored half a dozen hundreds & played atleast 2 genuine match winning knocks against top teams. The younger guy has scored just 2 hundreds, one against a bottom tier minnow & other against a c-string attack, he is yet to play a substantial knock.

 

[kron]

Smith has declined & RVD's little honeymoon period is over. They aren't even in the discussion anymore. But even post his prime, Kohli is still multiple times more dangerous & impactful. I am talking about a period where both the guys have played around 20 matches which I wouldn't call a small sample size. The older guy has scored half a dozen hundreds & played atleast 2 genuine match winning knocks against top teams. The younger guy has scored just 2 hundreds, one against a bottom tier minnow & other against a c-string attack, he is yet to play a substantial knock.

Kohli just needs to show his skills in a ko game. Hasn't done well in odi since 2013 in a ko game. Maybe this year is that year.

 

[heddie19]

All 3 formats is an excuse. Babar stat pads on the flattest decks in Pakistan in Tests. And bats too slow to be an elite T20 batter.

In ODI's, he is the best #3 in the world but that doesn't make him the best overall batter either.

He has 3 T20i tons, 2 tons in chasing 200+ targets. Please cut him some slack. He is tad bit slow in T20is but compensates it with his higher averages and consistency. Regarding tests, everyone has scored more runs on highways of Pakistan, Australia or India so no biasdness will be appreciated. Thanks.

Babar was, is and will remain as the best all format batter in the world. You can't justify it with your biasness towards him.

 

[heddie19]

He has 3 T20i tons, 2 tons in chasing 200+ targets. Please cut him some slack. He is tad bit slow in T20is but compensates it with his higher averages and consistency. Regarding tests, everyone has scored more runs on highways of Pakistan, Australia or India so no biasdness will be appreciated. Thanks.

Kohli has played very few meaningless ODIs since 2019. If he was playing every single game against B and C teams like Babar he would still be smashing them harder than Babar.

Ifs Buts Whens. When these are being used in an argument, you know you have lost without any justification.

If Nadal was as fit as Djokovic, he would have won more. but it didn't happen and Nadal isn't as fit. End of story.

 

[Mamoon]

Ifs Buts Whens. When these are being used in an argument, you know you have lost without any justification.

If Nadal was as fit as Djokovic, he would have won more. but it didn't happen and Nadal isn't as fit. End of story.

Nadal and Djokovic?

Babar is Aisam-ul-Haq or whatever his name was if Kohli is Nadal.

Babar is simply not in the same league as Kohli. Never was and never will be. The quicker you accept it the less painful it will be.

Kohli belongs in the upper pantheons of batting greats like Sir Viv, Tendulkar, Lara and Ponting. The greats among greats.

Babar is several notches below that league. He is in the category of batsmen like Yousuf, Clarke, Mahela etc. A world class batsman but nothing more than that.

 

[heddie19]

Nadal and Djokovic?

Babar is Aisam-ul-Haq or whatever his name was if Kohli is Nadal.

Babar is simply not in the same league as Kohli. Never was and never will be. The quicker you accept it the less painful it will be.

Kohli belongs in the upper pantheons of batting greats like Sir Viv, Tendulkar, Lara and Ponting. The greats among greats.

Babar is several notches below that league. He is in the category of batsmen like Yousuf, Clarke, Mahela etc. A world class batsman but nothing more than that.

No Babar is is from the same category as Imran Farhat, happy?


Kohli's last 3 odi knockout knocks have been in single digit. Kohli's last 3 T20i knockout knocks came out in a losing cause. He got smacked for his SR in the last one in particular. Choker of the highest order.

The Pakistani bowling of Aizaz cheema, Sohail Khan and Faheem Ashraf that Kohli has scored agaisnt is worse than Sean Abott, Adam Zampa, Adil Rashid, Sam Curran on whom Babar smacked a century recently. Babar's runs in his last ODI knockout are 4x more than Kohli's runs in his last 3.

Despite of having a poor start to the WC in comparison to Kohli's marvelous start, Babar's WC avg is still better than Bangrat's avg.

I told you so many times don't try to belittle any player. Now try and digest the facts about the biggest choker and biggest statspadder in the world. Surely he needs to do something more than just smacking Bangladesh and SriLanka in order to be compare against a consistent perfomer like Babar.

 

[Mamoon]

No Babar is is from the same category as Imran Farhat, happy?


Kohli's last 3 odi knockout knocks have been in single digit. Kohli's last 3 T20i knockout knocks came out in a losing cause. He got smacked for his SR in the last one in particular. Choker of the highest order.

The Pakistani bowling of Aizaz cheema, Sohail Khan and Faheem Ashraf that Kohli has scored agaisnt is worse than Sean Abott, Adam Zampa, Adil Rashid, Sam Curran on whom Babar smacked a century recently. Babar's runs in his last ODI knockout are 4x more than Kohli's runs in his last 3.

Despite of having a poor start to the WC in comparison to Kohli's marvelous start, Babar's WC avg is still better than Bangrat's avg.

I told you so many times don't try to belittle any player. Now try and digest the facts about the biggest choker and biggest statspadder in the world. Surely he needs to do something more than just smacking Bangladesh and SriLanka in order to be compare against a consistent perfomer like Babar.

The delusion is comical.

Babar is not worthy of lacing Kohli’s boots. They are not even in the same league and hence they cannot be compared.

Babar vs Kohli doesn’t hinge on Kohli’s performances in ODI tournament knockouts.

Kohli is already in a different galaxy and if he is successful in knockouts in this tournament, he will only increase the already massive gulf between him and Babar.

Kohli can do everything that Babar can but Babar cannot replicate Kohli’s great performances even if he plays for a 100 years.

For example, the innings Kohli played vs Pakistan at the MCG last year. Even Babar’s most delusional fans know deep down in their hearts that Babar can NEVER win a match in such circumstances the way Kohli did for India.

Put Babar in the same situation and he will fail to get Pakistan over the line 100/100 times simply because he doesn’t have the same mettle, the same mentality. The ability to grab the game by the balls and run away with it.

There is no way Babar will hit those two sixes to Rauf knowing that anything less than 12 runs of those 2 balls were not going to be enough.

These moments separate very good players from those that transcend eras and generations. Kohli is capable of producing these moments and he has produced them over and over again but Babar is not.

Babar is 29 years old. Put 29 year old Babar and 29 year old Kohli in the same team and there is absolutely no way Babar stands out as the alpha batsman.

When India were reduced to 30/4 last year, the win predictor was 85% in Pakistan’s favor but no Pakistani fan felt confident because they knew that as long as Kohli is there, Pakistan cannot win.

That is the aura, the fear factor and the presence Kohli has which is missing in Babar’s game.

Put Babar in the same situation and the opposition fans will not feel uneasy and Pakistani fans will not believe that Babar will take the team over the line.



Babar fans compare him to Kohli but he is not even as good as Rohit. Today, Kohli and Rohit are 35-36 and they past their prime or at best the very end of their prime.

Babar is 29 and at his absolute peak and yet he is still struggling to outshine those two. If Babar was as good as his delusional fans claim, he would be batting at a completely different level to 35/36 year old Kohli and Rohit but that is not happening.

Learn to respect great players. Please stop disrespecting the legacy of a champion player like Kohli by comparing him to vastly inferior and lesser players like Babar just because the reality is too painful to accept.

 

[heddie19]

No Babar is is from the same category as Imran Farhat, happy?


Kohli's last 3 odi knockout knocks have been in single digit. Kohli's last 3 T20i knockout knocks came out in a losing cause. He got smacked for his SR in the last one in particular. Choker of the highest order.

The Pakistani bowling of Aizaz cheema, Sohail Khan and Faheem Ashraf that Kohli has scored agaisnt is worse than Sean Abott, Adam Zampa, Adil Rashid, Sam Curran on whom Babar smacked a century recently. Babar's runs in his last ODI knockout are 4x more than Kohli's runs in his last 3.

Despite of having a poor start to the WC in comparison to Kohli's marvelous start, Babar's WC avg is still better than Bangrat's avg.

I told you so many times don't try to belittle any player. Now try and digest the facts about the biggest choker and biggest statspadder in the world. Surely he needs to do something more than just smacking Bangladesh and SriLanka in order to be compare against a consistent perfomer like Babar.

The delusion is comical.

Babar is not worthy of lacing Kohli’s boots. They are not even in the same league and hence they cannot be compared.

Babar vs Kohli doesn’t hinge on Kohli’s performances in ODI tournament knockouts.

Kohli is already in a different galaxy and if he is successful in knockouts in this tournament, he will only increase the already massive gulf between him and Babar.

Kohli can do everything that Babar can but Babar cannot replicate Kohli’s great performances even if he plays for a 100 years.

For example, the innings Kohli played vs Pakistan at the MCG last year. Even Babar’s most delusional fans know deep down in their hearts that Babar can NEVER win a match in such circumstances the way Kohli did for India.

Put Babar in the same situation and he will fail to get Pakistan over the line 100/100 times simply because he doesn’t have the same mettle, the same mentality. The ability to grab the game by the balls and run away with it.

There is no way Babar will hit those two sixes to Rauf knowing that anything less than 12 runs of those 2 balls were not going to be enough.

These moments separate very good players from those that transcend eras and generations. Kohli is capable of producing these moments and he has produced them over and over again but Babar is not.

Babar is 29 years old. Put 29 year old Babar and 29 year old Kohli in the same team and there is absolutely no way Babar stands out as the alpha batsman.

When India were reduced to 30/4 last year, the win predictor was 85% in Pakistan’s favor but no Pakistani fan felt confident because they knew that as long as Kohli is there, Pakistan cannot win.

That is the aura, the fear factor and the presence Kohli has which is missing in Babar’s game.

Put Babar in the same situation and the opposition fans will not feel uneasy and Pakistani fans will not believe that Babar will take the team over the line.

View attachment 137782

Babar fans compare him to Kohli but he is not even as good as Rohit. Today, Kohli and Rohit are 35-36 and they past their prime or at best the very end of their prime.

Babar is 29 and at his absolute peak and yet he is still struggling to outshine those two. If Babar was as good as his delusional fans claim, he would be batting at a completely different level to 35/36 year old Kohli and Rohit but that is not happening.

Learn to respect great players. Please stop disrespecting the legacy of a champion player like Kohli by comparing him to vastly inferior and lesser players like Babar just because the reality is too painful to accept.

The two times they have had a shoot-out at the WC face to face, Babar has outscored him by scoring more runs in the 2 matches. You will now talk about the result of the match, that was won by India due to other players and not Chokli.

Babar = 99 runs in 2 Matches
Kohli = 93 runs in 2 Matches.

 

[heddie19]

Y

The delusion is comical.

Babar is not worthy of lacing Kohli’s boots. They are not even in the same league and hence they cannot be compared.

Babar vs Kohli doesn’t hinge on Kohli’s performances in ODI tournament knockouts.

Kohli is already in a different galaxy and if he is successful in knockouts in this tournament, he will only increase the already massive gulf between him and Babar.

Kohli can do everything that Babar can but Babar cannot replicate Kohli’s great performances even if he plays for a 100 years.

For example, the innings Kohli played vs Pakistan at the MCG last year. Even Babar’s most delusional fans know deep down in their hearts that Babar can NEVER win a match in such circumstances the way Kohli did for India.

Put Babar in the same situation and he will fail to get Pakistan over the line 100/100 times simply because he doesn’t have the same mettle, the same mentality. The ability to grab the game by the balls and run away with it.

There is no way Babar will hit those two sixes to Rauf knowing that anything less than 12 runs of those 2 balls were not going to be enough.

These moments separate very good players from those that transcend eras and generations. Kohli is capable of producing these moments and he has produced them over and over again but Babar is not.

Babar is 29 years old. Put 29 year old Babar and 29 year old Kohli in the same team and there is absolutely no way Babar stands out as the alpha batsman.

When India were reduced to 30/4 last year, the win predictor was 85% in Pakistan’s favor but no Pakistani fan felt confident because they knew that as long as Kohli is there, Pakistan cannot win.

That is the aura, the fear factor and the presence Kohli has which is missing in Babar’s game.

Put Babar in the same situation and the opposition fans will not feel uneasy and Pakistani fans will not believe that Babar will take the team over the line.

View attachment 137782

Babar fans compare him to Kohli but he is not even as good as Rohit. Today, Kohli and Rohit are 35-36 and they past their prime or at best the very end of their prime.

Babar is 29 and at his absolute peak and yet he is still struggling to outshine those two. If Babar was as good as his delusional fans claim, he would be batting at a completely different level to 35/36 year old Kohli and Rohit but that is not happening.

Learn to respect great players. Please stop disrespecting the legacy of a champion player like Kohli by comparing him to vastly inferior and lesser players like Babar just because the reality is too painful to accept.

You do realize that Babar's team went further in this tournament than Kohli's team? His performance was actually match-winning in the SFs while Kohli's 50 couldn't get his team win? I am sure you know that.

A groupstage win means nothing if the losing team is going further in the tournament. Try to analyze the context of the tournament properly then we can have a debate.

Regardin 35-36 year old outshining Babar, well the number of runs scored in each format in the last 4 years say elsewise.

 

[Mamoon]

The two times they have had a shoot-out at the WC face to face, Babar has outscored him by scoring more runs in the 2 matches. You will now talk about the result of the match, that was won by India due to other players and not Chokli.

Babar = 99 runs in 2 Matches
Kohli = 93 runs in 2 Matches.

I remember Asad Shafiq scoring more than Jack Kallis in a Test series in South Africa.

I can also give you a million examples of a lesser player scoring more runs than a greater player over 1-2 matches.

It is funny how you talk shout the “shoot-out” at the ODI World Cup but conveniently ignored their “shoot-out” at T20 World Cup last year where Babar scored 0 (1) and Kohli produced an innings bigger than Babar’s entire career so far.

Besides, let’s talk about their World Cup shootout:

2019: Kohli scored a dominant 77 in 65 balls and wasn’t even out. He walked but there was no edge. Babar scored a tentative 48 in 57 and got bamboozled by Kuldeep.

2023: Babar scored 50 in 58 and got out in an extremely tame fashion to trigger a collapse. Kohli scored 16 in 18 but he was looking to slog quick runs because India were looking to maximize the NRR.

Kohli was not looking to score an average boosting half-century which is what Babar would have done in a similar situation. There is no way Babar would ever sacrifice chasing personal milestones for the team’s NRR.

This was the first time since 2011 World Cup that Pakistan dismissed Kohli for less than 50 in a World Cup game. If Kohli played his normal way, he would have 100% percent scored a half-century because “we cannot play him”.

No more replies until I see something intelligent.

 

[Mamoon]

Y

You do realize that Babar's team went further in this tournament than Chokli's team? His performance was actually match-winning in the SFs while Kohli's 50 couldn't get his team win? I am sure you know that.

A groupstage win means nothing if the losing team is going further in the tournament. Try to analyze the context of the tournament properly then we can have a debate.

Regardin 35-36 year old outshining Babar, well the number of runs scored in each format in the last 4 years say elsewise.

Yeah we saw how Babar’s team went further. The only reason Babar’s team made the semis was because South Africa got screwed over by DRS against the West Indies and because Netherlands pulled a fluke win over South Africa.

Pakistan’s fate was out of their hands. They had no business playing the semifinal and justice was served when England took care of them with Babar failing against spin as usual.

Besides, Kohli vs Babar doesn’t depend on which team progresses further in a particular tournament. It is a team game after all. Sometimes, you play much better than your counterpart but your team does worse.

You are bottling out of the debate now. You know very well that Babar can never pull off what Kohli did at the MCG last year.

You are fully aware of what separates Kohli and Babar but you cannot admit it because it hurts, and hence you’re hiding behind number of runs in X number of years because that is all Babar fans have to show for.

Babar is the only very good batsman out there who plays every single match against B and C attacks so no wonder he has been a very prolific accumulator, but he is brought to his level as soon as he is up against frontline bowlers and has to directly compete with the best batsman.

He has failed to be a standout batsman in this World Cup so far and it is not surprising for anyone that is not a delusional Babar fan because he isn’t as good as his fans think.

Again - no more replies unless I see an intelligent, thought-provoking retort.

 

[Mesozoic]

Babar fans on this thread and on Social media these days in general remind me of the Bangladesh fans of yesteryear, who used to troll just for the sake of it and spread textual diarrhoea all over the internet despite knowing deep inside that they're nowhere close to the top dogs in international cricket.

Sadly, all it ended up doing was damage the goodwill & neutral support for the BD team for years to come. Same is getting repeated for Babar, which is unfortunate because he seems like a humble, polite lad....

 

[heddie19]

I remember Asad Shafiq scoring more than Jack Kallis in a Test series in South Africa.

I can also give you a million examples of a lesser player scoring more runs than a greater player over 1-2 matches.

It is funny how you talk shout the “shoot-out” at the ODI World Cup but conveniently ignored their “shoot-out” at T20 World Cup last year where Babar scored 0 (1) and Kohli produced an innings bigger than Babar’s entire career so far.

Besides, let’s talk about their World Cup shootout:

2019: Kohli scored a dominant 77 in 65 balls and wasn’t even out. He walked but there was no edge. Babar scored a tentative 48 in 57 and got bamboozled by Kuldeep.

2023: Babar scored 50 in 58 and got out in an extremely tame fashion to trigger a collapse. Kohli scored 16 in 18 but he was looking to slog quick runs because India were looking to maximize the NRR.

Kohli was not looking to score an average boosting half-century which is what Babar would have done in a similar situation. There is no way Babar would ever sacrifice chasing personal milestones for the team’s NRR.

This was the first time since 2011 World Cup that Pakistan dismissed Kohli for less than 50 in a World Cup game. If Kohli played his normal way, he would have 100% percent scored a half-century because “we cannot play him”.

No more replies until I see something intelligent.

It is not just a test series here, it is an ODI WC + plus last 4 years across all formats.

That innings in 160 odd chase is nothing in the context of tournament. I rate Babar's and Rizwan's 50s higher than that innings.

First, Virat will perform in a useless match. He will make 160 look like 260 in t20 overs due to his tuk-tuk and then he needs a no-ball and a free hit in order to chase that already chasable target so that delusional fans like you start believing that that was something out of this world because it wasn't.

Babar has chased 200+ totals 4,5 times in his career in T20is and twice with centuries. How many times this dud has ever done that?

He kept avg boosting his entire t20i career that is why couldn't win a single t20 trophy, not even for his star-studded franchise. That too in his 15 years of IPL. Wow yaar. Amazing


You don't deserve anything intelligent because what you're trying to do is to bring me down to your IQ level which is in double digits at max and then beat me with your experience, you will get the type of replies you deserve.

A lone warrior like Babar must never be compared to a player who won his only 2 tournaments by sitting in the lap of Tendu, Gambhir and Dhawan. Rest are single digit runs in crucial knockouts, I am not even talking about WTC final scores yet.

You're right Babar isn't in the same league as statspadder Kohli because Babar's runs always make his team win but since he doesn't have a PR team or following as the Mr. Anushka Sharma has, fools like you believe otherwise.

 

[heddie19]

Babar fans on this thread and on Social media these days in general remind me of the Bangladesh fans of yesteryear, who used to troll just for the sake of it and spread textual diarrhoea all over the internet despite knowing deep inside that they're nowhere close to the top dogs in international cricket.

Sadly, all it ended up doing was damage the goodwill & neutral support for the BD team for years to come. Same is getting repeated for Babar, which is unfortunate because he seems like a humble, polite lad....

They are doing it because people like @Mamoon try to belittle a player who has been the pillar for PCT since his debut. Have some courage now. Try to digest as I know share facts not stupid imaginery stuff.

 

[Mesozoic]

They are doing it because people like @Mamoon try to belittle a player who has been the pillar for PCT since his debut. Have some courage now. Try to digest as I know share facts not stupid imaginery stuff.

As I said.... "Textual Diarrhoea".


Straight from the incoherent YouTube comments and Twitter replies train of thought. Not suitable for discussion on a much more sophisticated discussion forum with knowledgeable members.

Cheers!

 

[Ali T]

Yeah we saw how Babar’s team went further. The only reason Babar’s team made the semis was because South Africa got screwed over by DRS against the West Indies and because Netherlands pulled a fluke win over South Africa.

Pakistan’s fate was out of their hands. They had no business playing the semifinal and justice was served when England took care of them with Babar failing against spin as usual.

Besides, Kohli vs Babar doesn’t depend on which team progresses further in a particular tournament. It is a team game after all. Sometimes, you play much better than your counterpart but your team does worse.

You are bottling out of the debate now. You know very well that Babar can never pull off what Kohli did at the MCG last year.

You are fully aware of what separates Kohli and Babar but you cannot admit it because it hurts, and hence you’re hiding behind number of runs in X number of years because that is all Babar fans have to show for.

Babar is the only very good batsman out there who plays every single match against B and C attacks so no wonder he has been a very prolific accumulator, but he is brought to his level as soon as he is up against frontline bowlers and has to directly compete with the best batsman.

He has failed to be a standout batsman in this World Cup so far and it is not surprising for anyone that is not a delusional Babar fan because he isn’t as good as his fans think.

Again - no more replies unless I see an intelligent, thought-provoking retort.

It's funny I remember Babar played a really useful knock against New Zealand in the 2019 world cup when we had lost 1 or 2 early wickets. It was basically him and Haris Sohail who helped up steady the ship.

Mind you, it was a low scoring total (sub 250's) and we chased it in the final over. But there was something in the pitch for the bowlers which made the knock impressive. If I recall, he played spin pretty well that day.

I remember thinking that he was mentally much stronger than his cousin Umar Akmal (doesn't take much) and thought it was was an indication of his ability to absorb pressure. I guess I was wrong.

As for Kohli, there is no comparison. Superior hands down. One of the best chasers in his peak.

 

[Hitman]

Comparing Babar with Kohli .... come on, it's good to be patriotic.

 

[Savak]

Babar Azam cannot play the sweep shot against spinners to save his life. Good spinners are able to tie him down with utmost ease.

 

[Kianig89]

Babar is the anchorman he has no shoulder to share the burden he needs an in form to opener to take up the responsibilities of a brisk start that's a harsh reality, extra burden dilutes the performance same is with bowling SSA is missing Naseem