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[PICTURES/VIDEOS] How do we stop Mohammad Haris turning out like Haider Ali?

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Disclaimer first up: Haider Ali is 22 years old. He's obviously got a lot of time and development left. Not saying that it's over for him and he's a dud. Just trying to compare trajectories of similar players.

Haris has broken onto the scene with similar breath-taking ball-striking and intent at the top of the order that Haider had. Just as Haris brought Hayden out his seat with a monster 6, as did Haider to Younus Khan in England. There was similar hype around Haider as there is around Haris, that he could be the X-factor big hitter for Pakistan for years to come.

Yet, inexplicably, after a long rope of 30 T20I innings Haider has fallen off a cliff, now just a peripheral character at the back of the celebration photos while Haris, a year younger, is in the spotlight and seemingly taken his place. That same praise of his intent, but now without the ball-striking, has turned into criticisms of "brainless hack".

What has gone wrong with Haider? Are there lessons to be learnt for Haris or team management? Or was Haider never really that good in the first place?
 
Evidence suggests, on a small sample admittedly, Haris has a superior technical game. So he has a better chance of surviving brain fades.

For now he has to do what he has been doing so far with zero changes. Keep all other noise out.
 
This is a very good thread to start. Haris is a fan favourite now but i bet within 1 year tops someone here calls him a 'useless hack who should never be selected again'.

The 50 that Haider scored against England was the worst thing that could have happened to him. It gave us all a false dawn and stunted his development completely.

Lessons need to be learned for Haris so he doesn't suffer the same fate after this WC.
 
What I loved about Haris was that he took his captain's advice to heart -"finish the game"

So nothing flashy until win was in sight - just controlled aggression

This is something Haider does NOT have.
 
Make him play atleast 2 seasons of First Class if not more before you blood him in ODI and tests. He will come out more experienced and he has age on his side so the wait shouldn't be a problem. Bowlers may not need FC experience but batsmen definitely need.
 
What I loved about Haris was that he took his captain's advice to heart -"finish the game"

So nothing flashy until win was in sight - just controlled aggression

This is something Haider does NOT have.

Haider needs to open he isn’t a player to handle pressure Haris adds more firepower in the top order in the future it’s a good sign but he doesn’t look a good player of spin bowling.
 
Haider Ali was never anything

Harris became what he is because he has played 3 clutch knocks in a row

It’s more like how do we make Haider Ali into Harris?
 
More time and consistent opportunities to keep playing his game, should only build on from here!
 
I had concerns that if Haris comes to bat in middle order when the field will be out he will struggle to find boundaries and will not get on much. However today the method with which he played the field around and picking gaps combined with strong running simply shows his game awareness and adaptability.

He is still very young and a long way to go. I wish him best however its important that we do not overhype the kid and let him play the way he is comfortable. Too many cooks spoil the soup. I wish him best.
 
Pakistan had their Backs against the wall

Harris came out swinging like Mike Tyson would, 3 matches in a row and now look where we are!

Boy this guy is going to #beTheBest
 
Also, don’t shuffle Haris around. We turned Haider from an opener/#3 to our late order hitter. When you do that to a player, you tell him ‘go out, forget about technique and hit the ball hard’ and they become accustomed to that style of play.

Haider will come good, play him up top where he belongs
 
Let him play the way he wants to play. He is mentally more strong and sensible compare to the previous lot... His body language and stance at the crease tells the story. However the more he plays, other teams will figure out his weakness so he needs to work hard on his game... another 5-10 games to judge him better.
 
Can't really we just have to hope he doesn't. He doesn't strike me as someone who will consistently rain in runs the way he plays right now. But in some ways thats what we need from him right now some firepower. Though he's young and that could change. I am hopeful he'll be good for us though for a long time, and we should definitely back him.

Best thing for him would be consistently scoring in PSL and domestic. Get used to raining in the runs. Then hopefully he can replicate in internationals, and be given greater leeway if he starts failing internationally. A lot of these inconsistent international players cant score consistently in internationals as they aren't even used to scoring consistently in domestic.
 
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You can't teach it.

Haris is clutch. Definitely Inzi 1992 vibes.

Brutal v extreme pace and has power and skill in abundance.
 
You guys underrate mental toughness.
Haris doesnt look nervous like Haider does. That is a huge factor at the top level.
 
First of all, Dont play with his batting position. Push him up the order to opening but definitely not any lower than 1 down. He needs freedom, let him play the way he plays.

I remember when he played a game against Eng last month and he went for a ramp shot pretty much straight away, got out and was heavily criticised by Wasim Akram on commentary. The same Wasim who Appreciated Haris's aggression against South Africa when similar shots came off and talked up his intent. Ex-cricketers and coaches will try to change his natural game after couple of failures and then make him forget what he started off with. It's bound to happen. It already started with Babar when he told him to finish off a game. I'm sorry that's not his job to finish off games or see the team through. Leave one guy in there who gives you a boost, the rest of you can see it through with your calmness.
 
Haris only knows to play one way pluss he's a keeper so will get more leeway in the future.
 
You guys underrate mental toughness.
Haris doesnt look nervous like Haider does. That is a huge factor at the top level.

99% is mental at this level. All have an almost even level of skill but the mental edge is the key. He's a tough cookie. Extremely impressed.
 
Play plenty of domestic cricket, frequent batting, work hard on your fitness and batting behind the scenes and you will be good.

You just have to look at Haider Ali's physical state to get an idea about his attitude towards the game.
 
The body language and confidence you can see is far superior in Haris. Haider should take inspiration from this and come and show he can do.
 
You just have to look at each's u19 careers to be able to draw conclusions. Haris is a very clutch player, but Haider was on another level. The shots he played were pure class. Haider is just going through bad form. Eventually he'll be back. Hopefully it's in the top order too. Both amazing talents
 
I think the answer to this is pretty simple:

Harris to continue focusing on 3 things so that he progresses, rather than regress:
1) Fitness
2) Batting techniques
3) Power hitting

I could be wrong but it seemed like Haider let it go a little bit in these 3 areas after a great start to his LOI career. And thus struggles to 1) Field & Catch 2) Finding gaps and 3) Hitting 6s in t20
 
Don’t do what we did to Fakhar and Haider.

Don’t randomly move him around the batting order.

Don’t ask him to curb his natural game, at least for now.

Understand, and I mean REALLY understand as fans and also the management / captain that this type of player usually averages 25 at a SR of 150, which is absolutely fine for t20s. So don’t expect him to play long innings or “finish” innings at all times like Babar was suggesting to him.

Understand that He’s there to bring the RR down so guys like Shan, Babar and Rizwan feel less pressure and can play their natural game.

My big fear is they won’t do any of this and will try to shoehorn him into something he’s not which may curb his free spirited style of play. How many players have we had that started their career with this attacking mindset only to look completely shot of confidence and belief?

In Sha Allah he won’t be one of them and will go strength to strength.
 
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What I loved about Haris was that he took his captain's advice to heart -"finish the game"

So nothing flashy until win was in sight - just controlled aggression

This is something Haider does NOT have.

I would ignore whatever captain or whoever is saying. Just nod and say yes but ignore it for the most part. Go into the field and play the same attacking brand that I play best and am most comfortable with.

Captain Saab has plenty of finishers already, so imma just do my thing.
 
Harris is a good attacking batsman and looks confident in his abilities. One thing he lacks is that he tries to play unnecessary low-value silly shots such as scoops and reverse sweeps. In yesterday's match, he wasted 3-4 deliveries and almost got out whilst trying such shots. He needs to learn that if you can hit a four or a six at will, why go for a reverse sweep when it will, at most, yield you a double.
 
keep him away from our coaches. maybe let him play in BBL, CPL, Natwest t20, etc. and learn alongside other top t20 strikers / coaches, rather than be forced to change/curb his natural game.
 
Also, don’t shuffle Haris around. We turned Haider from an opener/#3 to our late order hitter. When you do that to a player, you tell him ‘go out, forget about technique and hit the ball hard’ and they become accustomed to that style of play.

Haider will come good, play him up top where he belongs

+1

Haider is an opener. Lad played all age group cricket as an opener.
He has 50+ FC average while opening. --> He doesn't have much technical issues against new ball. (for comparison, Babar averaged in 30s when he made debut)
Hence his issues in international cricket are mental, not technical.

Let's hope TM don't repeat these mistakes by shuffling Haris or by telling* him to get his eye in before attempting big shots. *(Misabh, then Head Coach, famously said to Haider)
 
Haris is smarter than Haider. Haider's hack to the leg side wont work againat good teams. Haris seems to read the situation wayyyy bettrr than Haider.
 
the huge difference is
Haris SMACKS absolutely SMACKS short balls on his body
Haider Ali is never in control playing short ball, infact very tailender look when plays short ball
 
I think a lot of you are discounting how good Haider was early on in his career relatively.

Haris is young and under no pressure hence he can play freely but once the fans and team starts expecting good things from you, you start feeling that pressure. Not to mention, people will figure out the weaknesses of the young batsmen. This is why many players start out very strong but then falls away. Has been the case with many Pakistani batsmen. The few exceptions such as Babar were hard working and disciplined and got better with time.
 
It all depends on him

We give too much credit to the management but at the end players have to evolve themselves.

The management can do is give him a proper chance despite failures
 
Haris has more array of strokes than Haider and is also technically better. Haider Ali is a midwicket slogger.

However the main thing would be to continue playing Haris for at least 3-4 series and giving him confidence. Haider Ali scored 2 50s in England and was soon dropped very quickly and was harsh on him. They need to persist with Haris.
 
There is nothing anyone can do. It is down to Haris himself.

Haider has the following issues:

1. Nervous body language. He looks demoralized and disinterested all the time.

2. Overweight. Embarrassing to see a young player like him not in great shape. It is obvious that he doesn’t watch his diet and doesn’t hit the gym hard enough.

3. Terrible against the short ball. You can have all the coaches and facilities in the world, you won’t improve unless you make an effort. I have seen nothing to suggest that he is working on the short ball.
 
There is nothing anyone can do. It is down to Haris himself.

Haider has the following issues:

1. Nervous body language. He looks demoralized and disinterested all the time.

2. Overweight. Embarrassing to see a young player like him not in great shape. It is obvious that he doesn’t watch his diet and doesn’t hit the gym hard enough.

3. Terrible against the short ball. You can have all the coaches and facilities in the world, you won’t improve unless you make an effort. I have seen nothing to suggest that he is working on the short ball.

Haider has now worked with the following people

Hashim Amla
Inzamam
Mohd Yousaf
Younis Khan
Mathew Hayden

Still zero improvement in his batting. I personally suspect he does not have a great work ethic and is very lazy and he is tempramentally weak as he showed with his scared, nervous dismissal against Sikander Razas straight ball.

Needs to spend a few seasons in domestic cricket and be made to earn a spot in the side again.
 
Haris won't last a year if he's playing at 4 or even 3. Reason for that is he is unable to play spin. coming in after the power play means your are facing spin bowlers for him to succeed he needs to open or come in the last power play so of he's staying he will more likely to be dropped to 6. I'm not going to suggest for the betterment of pakistan cricket that he should open and Babar should come at 3 to steady the ship after a wicket falls otherwise babar fans will be out with very sharp knives and accuse me for blasphemy. It's better he enjoy this world cup and go rather than he ruin his career and then look for another opportunity in the future.
 
Haider was a beast when he started, such a powerful hitter. He started off with so much potential, not sure what has gone wrong.

A batsmen needs to be dynamic and bat anywhere. Not being able to adapt in different positions demonstrates shortfalls.
 
The big thing Haris has is that he’s not 2 minded. His mind is very clear.

Since haider came back in the recent odi series, he seems very confused. Every innings is a reaction of the mistakes of the previous innings
 
Haider Ali was never anything

Harris became what he is because he has played 3 clutch knocks in a row

It’s more like how do we make Haider Ali into Harris?

Yes . Haider up until now didn't show anything with the bat by which one can say that he is talented.

Haris has got a very good start to his career .
 
Haris' ability with the short ball alone qualifies him for a spot. The question is how will he adjust against spin, or in low-bounce settings? I proposed the opening or number 6 slots for him so he faces as many deliveries from pacers, but that suggestion was immediately dismissed by my fellow posters.
 
Play him consistently. Haider Ali was unnecessarily benched for accomodating Kushdil, Asif, Ifthikar and Malik.
 
A reminder for some peeps, you can praise Haris without having to bring Haider down. And for those calling Haider a legside hack, I'd suggest watching a reel of Haider's strokes in age group cricket. His off and straight drives were a thing of beaut and rivalled Babar & Haris Sohail's aesthetic. Poor rhythm and an unclear role can cloud the mind. Would love to see Hayden work with Haider, and bring back his aggressiveness in focus.
 
Disclaimer first up: Haider Ali is 22 years old. He's obviously got a lot of time and development left. Not saying that it's over for him and he's a dud. Just trying to compare trajectories of similar players.

Haris has broken onto the scene with similar breath-taking ball-striking and intent at the top of the order that Haider had. Just as Haris brought Hayden out his seat with a monster 6, as did Haider to Younus Khan in England. There was similar hype around Haider as there is around Haris, that he could be the X-factor big hitter for Pakistan for years to come.

Yet, inexplicably, after a long rope of 30 T20I innings Haider has fallen off a cliff, now just a peripheral character at the back of the celebration photos while Haris, a year younger, is in the spotlight and seemingly taken his place. That same praise of his intent, but now without the ball-striking, has turned into criticisms of "brainless hack".

What has gone wrong with Haider? Are there lessons to be learnt for Haris or team management? Or was Haider never really that good in the first place?

Bro your acting like haider is finished, give they guy a chance to get in form, i believe he will make a comeback, bright future ahead of him.

Pathetic outlook on a professional sportsman.
 
Haris' ability with the short ball alone qualifies him for a spot. The question is how will he adjust against spin, or in low-bounce settings? I proposed the opening or number 6 slots for him so he faces as many deliveries from pacers, but that suggestion was immediately dismissed by my fellow posters.

Opening position will best suit him he will be beast in the power play vs fast bowling
 
Harris will turn out to be another Haider Ali

Haider Ali turning out to be Haider Ali is not even his own fault. Haider Ali had no domestic experience when he got thrown into international cricket. Just because we see our bowlers do well we expect same from our batters.

Harris will end up like Haider. The reason for that is simple, he has no domestic experience. He has potential gave us great performances in international cricket. But he is one spell away from being exposed with a weakness that all teams will take advantage of.

Harris needs to play domestic for full seasons if he is not first choice in the national team. Let him fail there so that he could learn and become better.

Rizwan is a battle harden keeper today. Why? Because even at the age of 24+ when he avged 40plus he was not getting selected and learned.

Harris is still very raw. Even if he's gonna be a t20 player only than he needs to play all games in opening position. PZ is a great team for him especially after Karman Ajmal has been undrafted by them.

By being the first choice keeper he can get more games in.
 
If you look closely and go down memory lane, Umar Ajmal had a similar start to his career. He was also a similar kind of dashing player who would just come in and start striking.

The thread title shouldn't be a comparison with Haider Ali, because once selectors leave Haider Ali alone for 2-3 years and let that guy perform and play all games in domestic he will be back in the national team and would be a much better batter.

We just destroying Haider by giving him games with no experience.

Harris needs first class experience to bad longer periods. He needs to bat on pitches where survival depends upon singles and doubles. Where fitness is key.

Umar Akmal's fitness became a joke and he had set very low standards for himself. For Umar akmal, just playing a shot was his answer to handling pressure and he would just falter. Umar akmal only had shots he had no brain in how to build an innings
 
I liked the fact he didn't get bamboozled by a slower one even when he is going for an attacking shot which means he changes his mind at the last moment when he detect that bowl is slow, that ability alone will make him a super star because he can change his shot at the very last moment and treat the ball accordingly, that was missing in his first innings of this world cup and I thought he premeditates alot , I was wrong and even if he premeditates he can change his shot at the very last moment, now he just need to carb down ramp shot , reverse sweep and instead start playing on merit more as he has all the shot on the book and he can change it very last moment too , love the way when he move outside the leg stump and hit Ferguson Yorker for a boundary on offside and the next ball he knows that it will be a bouncer and he was ready for that and hit it for 6 , he plays mind games with the bowlers which means he is street smart and with more experience he will become a very good player.
 
Haris should just keep playing like he does with some adjustments on he way of course. I was very impressed with how good he is at picking those slow deliveries.

Only one issue I see so far; those premeditated shots at times. Against pace he could either be bowled or given leg before.
 
By not muddying his thoughts with nonsense like we did with Haider with calls to play sensibly (code for tuktuk) and consequently taking away his biggest strength which was his aggression.

Give him license to play the impactful innings we saw vs SAF. Let him fail. Attacking players will fail in T20 - their batting is inherently higher risk.

So don't start labelling him a legside hack if he has a couple of bad knocks.
 
Mohammad Haris has grabbed a contract in the BPL for Sylhet Strikers.
 
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i know its not popular to support haider at the moment, but i still think he has a lot to give. he is the only pak batsman with the physical power to muscle sixes, i.e. hit spinners from the crease regularly.

he has 3 fc centuries at fc level in 11 games, u do not score three fc hundreds unless u have some basic shot selection skills.

mohamad haris has an excellent eye, we was hitting proper fast bowlers with minimal trouble, haider does not have as good an eye.

haider needs lot of games in fc, list a and t20 to rectify the weaknesses which have creeped into his game. however both are still early in their career, hopefully both fulfil their potential.
 
i know its not popular to support haider at the moment, but i still think he has a lot to give. he is the only pak batsman with the physical power to muscle sixes, i.e. hit spinners from the crease regularly.

he has 3 fc centuries at fc level in 11 games, u do not score three fc hundreds unless u have some basic shot selection skills.

mohamad haris has an excellent eye, we was hitting proper fast bowlers with minimal trouble, haider does not have as good an eye.

haider needs lot of games in fc, list a and t20 to rectify the weaknesses which have creeped into his game. however both are still early in their career, hopefully both fulfil their potential.

Haider doesn’t have enough shots. His best shot is the swivel rocking on the back foot slog over cow corner on the back of the length ball

He needs to art more shots to his Arsenal
 
i know its not popular to support haider at the moment, but i still think he has a lot to give. he is the only pak batsman with the physical power to muscle sixes, i.e. hit spinners from the crease regularly.

he has 3 fc centuries at fc level in 11 games, u do not score three fc hundreds unless u have some basic shot selection skills.

mohamad haris has an excellent eye, we was hitting proper fast bowlers with minimal trouble, haider does not have as good an eye.

haider needs lot of games in fc, list a and t20 to rectify the weaknesses which have creeped into his game. however both are still early in their career, hopefully both fulfil their potential.

I agree. Look Haider is far from blameless, he's let his fitness slide and he hasn't played the short ball well. Nor does he always assess the situation well - his ill-judged dismissal vs IND at the MCG being one example.

But he shouldn't have been dropped after the WI series last Dec when he was one of our top performers. I know he struggled in PSL, but international form should take priority over PSL form in selection.

Instead he was dropped and then we ask why he looks mentally shot. Babar of all people should remember the long run he got under Mickey in Tests. Yes he was a better talent than Haider but his FC returns were actually worse than Haider at the same stage, but he was persisted with. I wish PCB could send him to work with someone like Gary Palmer for a month instead of discarding him on the firewood like we've done so many youngsters who've shown initial promise then fizzle out.
 
Haider is both limited in talent and shots arsenal and even more limited in judgement, he let his fitness fade away at such young age it shows he really is reckless and non willing to learn from his mistakes , time for him to go domestic cricket and start from scratch and we will him in 2 or 3 years if he actually improves.
 
I agree. Look Haider is far from blameless, he's let his fitness slide and he hasn't played the short ball well. Nor does he always assess the situation well - his ill-judged dismissal vs IND at the MCG being one example.

But he shouldn't have been dropped after the WI series last Dec when he was one of our top performers. I know he struggled in PSL, but international form should take priority over PSL form in selection.

Instead he was dropped and then we ask why he looks mentally shot. Babar of all people should remember the long run he got under Mickey in Tests. Yes he was a better talent than Haider but his FC returns were actually worse than Haider at the same stage, but he was persisted with. I wish PCB could send him to work with someone like Gary Palmer for a month instead of discarding him on the firewood like we've done so many youngsters who've shown initial promise then fizzle out.

I'm not saying he's blameless, but just to play devils advocate everything that he is displaying has happened to other cricketers before too. his weight issues are most likely a result of some form of negative mental space he's pbly in.

theres little things that make u see the light at the end of the tunnel, against nz in the tri series final despite knowing his place was on the line he played for the team and helped pak win.

he's got a long and hard road back to being in favour, and i fear moving the KK, unless he opens, is unlikely to help, however time with northern away form the spotlight could certainly help.

Haider doesn’t have enough shots. His best shot is the swivel rocking on the back foot slog over cow corner on the back of the length ball

He needs to art more shots to his Arsenal

he had one of the best cover drives and pulls of any of the young batsman in the fc circuit a few years ago. for some reason he forgot that all and started resorted to the umar akmal swipe across the line.
 
It's down to the player.

You can have the best coaches around them, you can give them every opportunity, but ultimately it's down to how much the players want to make it, how much hard work they want to put into it and how much they are willing to improve.
 
It's down to the player.

You can have the best coaches around them, you can give them every opportunity, but ultimately it's down to how much the players want to make it, how much hard work they want to put into it and how much they are willing to improve.

100%

Haider lacks the right mindset at this point. Hoping he can make a u-turn and get back to who he was a few years ago (& better)
 
Harris has done more in just a few matches then Haider ever did. There is nothing to worry about when Haider has always flopped just like Khushdil Shah.
 
Lets see if Haris can improve himself in this tournament seal his place for a long time to come.
 
He lacks basic technique and situation awareness , he can rectify his technique through top class coaching but situation awareness he need to learn by himself and no one help him out on this aspect.
 
Good start from Haris but he just got dropped. Won’t be afforded the same chances in international cricket. Needs to make sure to capitalise on this chance and pick which balls to smash and which to rotate strike on…
 
Six hitting ability is amazing -not built like a tank but pure timing.

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I beg to differ. Haris needs to realise that there are 120 balls in a T20 game, not 10 balls.

Now I am not expecting him to be like Rizwan but he needs to put a tag on his wicket and show some sense.

I think it depends. If he is paired with Babar or Rizzy then he should go for the fences knowing the guy at the other end will rotate strike and enable him to play his shots.

He won't always have the luxury of a dependable batsman at the other end though and this is where Haris needs to show he has game awareness, which is the main thing Haider lacks.

I'm happy for him to keep swinging in t20's but the lad needs some FC cricket under his belt right away before he starts getting into the national side.
 
Haris's is the fastest bat speed I have seen from a Pakistani batter since Imran Nazir.
 
Haris's is the fastest bat speed I have seen from a Pakistani batter since Imran Nazir.

His bat size and weight is perfect for him. Feels like a tape ball bat in his hand and the springs are perfect when it pings out of the middle
 
His temperament and the hard work he puts in is apparent not only his batting but his keeping as well, with some quality skills being that prominent cherry on the top.

At such a young age the way he plays high pace both on back foot and front foot as well as spin is impressive.
 
Haider wasn't given a lengthy run. That probably dented his confidence.

Haris needs to be managed better.
 
Am afraid it's not working for Haider. There needs to be some intervention to fix him - or he will fade away.
 
Make sure he plays proper full seasons of FC!!

If he doesn't, then he will never develop and get better.
 
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