sensible-indian-fan
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Hi Rajdeep bhai…Hey SIF bro, long time...how you been?
You 'Indian Politics' thread is superhit here. You can find brother @pillionrider and me there 24*7
On topic, which data it is that is suggesting the fight is tight? Not doubting your statement at all but just asking since I don't live in India.
All the survey and opinion polls saying NDA is winning by big margin.
As far as Modi's polarizing statements are concerned, it is only to excite their core voters to come out and vote as in 1st phase as BJP supporters took it lightly. However, that does not mean BJP is losing, isn't it?
Please confirm what I am missing here?
Below is the opinion poll figures:
View attachment 143560
View attachment 143561
How can BJP lose suddenly from this kind of projection done by various agencies?
All good bro.
Aap kaise ho?
Been super busy these days so don’t have the time (or energy or mental bandwidth lol) to regularly post on forums….
So coming back to the election:
First things first, let’s talk about the opinion polls.
As valuable as they are, they can (and do) go wrong.
- Bengal 2020
- Madhya Pradesh 2023 (almost everyone except Axis India and Chanakya got it wrong even in exit polls - let alone opinion polls)
- Even Rajasthan 2023 (most polls predicted Congress will have slight edge)
Take a look at this article about the history of exit polls in Lok Sabha elections from 2004
https://www.financialexpress.com/in...redictions-results-in-2004-2009-2014/1582662/
2004 and 2009 - most pollsters got it wrong even in exit polls (let alone opinion polls).
I am sure methodology must have improved over the years but as we saw in Bengal and Madhya Pradesh, you still never know.
Now before I give you a breakdown of numbers, let’s get certain things clear:
- This election is NOT a Modi vs Rahul fight. It’s a Modi vs India Alliance fight. Just see the ads & messaging of BJP (NDA) vs India alliance.
- While the India Alliance might look like a khichdi in states like Punjab, West Bengal where they are all fighting each other (lol)....there is solid synchronisation in Bihar, Uttar Pradesh, Maharashtra (be it strategy, messaging or ground level workers - some here & there mishaps can happen but I haven’t heard any till now).
- Unlike 2014 and 2019, there is no massive emotional wave this time which is why the voting numbers are down in most places. A lot of local issues are at play in this election (which wasn’t the case in 2014 and 2019).
Now let’s discuss the numbers.
Very simple way to look at it.
1. 2024 Election Overview
Bjp won 303 seats in 2019
But to do so it had to sweep so many states.
Gujarat sweep
Madhya pradesh sweep
Karnataka sweep except 1 seat
Rajasthan sweep
UP 65 out of 80
Haryana sweep
Himachal sweep
And many other hindi belt states where they swept or got close to 80-90% seats
They won 238 out of 257 Lok Sabha seats (from 13 states) with a 93% strike rate.
What this also means is their run rate outside of these belts were so bad.
Now in 2024...BJP has to sweep all these places to maintain 303
Alliance partners got 50 last time when there was a wave.
This time…I am not sure if they will muster that.
Pradeep Gupta from Axis India (the exit poll guy) predicted bjp will find it impossible to gain more seats from these 13 states and will likely lose seats this time around.
So the goal for the opposition is very simple.
Just reduce bjp tally...
If BJP gets down to 250...it will need alliance partners to form the government.
If it gets down to 220-230 ...it won’t form the government even with alliance partners cos if BJP’s tally has reduced so much, same will happen to the alliance partner’s tally.
So the name of the game is snatching seats from BJP and denying them new inroads in other states.
2. Let’s talk about BJP inroads first
Tamil Nadu - Bjp is getting 0-2 seats in TN (actually 0 but a guy i respect says they atleast have a contest in 2 seats - not sure which 2 cos Annamalai is struggling in his own constituency)
Telangana - They might add 1-2 more to their 2019 tally (but I am yet to get clear data on this).
Andhra Pradesh - BJP is in alliance. Contesting in 6. I don’t have the data yet on how well or badly it’s doing.
West Bengal - Highly doubtful they are repeating the 2019 tally of 18 seats let alone increase it. Even in the opinion polls till now, all predict 16-20 range. From what I am hearing, in Phase 1 and 2, they had favourable seats in Bengal and even those didn’t go well.
Odisha - Don’t have data yet but according to opinion polls itself, BJP expected to be at the same tally as previous election.
These are the main states where BJP can add to their tally (excluding a few small states in North East) and from the looks of it, they aren’t making any major level inroads so far.
3. Now let’s talk about states where BJP clean swept or did very very well in 2019
Karnataka - Congress has performed very very well. Their guarantees have worked among women. The voting pattern of men & women has been very different in Karnataka.
An example (click on the date to open the tweet)
Even in BJP fortresses like Bangalore South and Central, there is a tough competition.
So out of 28 seats....congress is likely to get 14 seats… Some say even say 18+ but i wanna be conservative. So 10-14 seats will be snatched from here. We will know it clearly after phase 3 where the final 14 seats go for the vote.
Rajasthan - If Gehlot had listened to strategist Sunil Kanugolu...he might have still been the CM of Rajasthan. Ground reports are there is a lot of anger in Rajasthan. Heard Gehlot schemes were stopped or merged. Congress is projected to get 8-12 seats out of 25.
6 is pretty much there. Others close contest which is too hard to tell now.
Today saw a pro BJP handle that gives NDA 300+ saying it will lose around 6 seats in Rajasthan.
So 8-10 seats are taken out here.
Heard Satta Bazar predictions have changed for Rajasthan (click on the date to open the tweet)
Don’t take any one of them as the ultimate truth. These are just how things are directionally.
Gujarat - BJP will sweep. I wanna see how Chaitar Vasava does but from a practical standpoint, I will assume not a single seat can be won by the opposition.
Madhya Pradesh - BJP will sweep.
Haryana - So badly run they are set to lose the assembly elections that’s coming up. Lok Sabha, 3-4 seats are a goner from what I hear. Will get more data with time.
Delhi - Media expects a BJP sweep but I highly doubt it. Kejriwal's arrest hasn’t gone down well at all. Plus Congress & AAP are fighting together (even though there might be internal bickerings here and there). Time will tell.
Himachal, Chattisgarh, Jharkhand - BJP swept here and they have to hope they don’t drop any seats here.
Now coming to the BIG 3 STATES where the elections will be won or lost.
Uttar Pradesh - Bjp won 65 out of 80 here. Before phase 1....bjp aimed for 80. Now aim is for 70-75. Opinion polls are giving them 70-75.
But ground level...things are really really not that great. Bjp has a small chance to get 70 seats (plus 5 from 2019 tally)...Small chance to keep its tally at 65. But a very very high chance for it to drop down in a localized election with 10 year anti incumbency.
For simplicity's sake, let’s safely assume BJP maintains its tally in UP 65 seats.
I am giving them ZERO loss even though ground reports aren’t great. Pradeep Gupta has clearly mentioned BJP will find it almost impossible to increase it’s tally in one of the 13 states (which UP is a part of).
Let the data emerge. We will get more clarity.
Bihar - Even opinion polls predict atleast 8 seats for the India alliance. Tejasvi Yadav is one talented nepo kid (campaigning wise). In 2020, he ran a phenomenal campaign and his party got the highest seats. The only mistake he did was that he started the campaign too late. In 2024, he is going all out with doing 97 rallies in 3 weeks with 120 more to go. Also he is playing Modi’s speeches in his rallies about berozgari, inflation, etc lol.
BJP is set to drop 8-10 seats here. I am hearing way better numbers (15-20) but I want to check and wait for more clearer data.
Maharashtra - The one state where India Alliance has a CLEAR lead. BMC elections have been postponed for 2 years (just like Delhi Mayor elections just did) and it’s no rocket science to know why.
After Uttar Pradesh, Maharashtra sends the most MPs to Lok Sabha - 48. Last time, NDA won 41 seats with UPA winning just 5. This time, India alliance is projected to do atleast 20-25….more like 25-30. Even the opinion polls are giving these numbers (and they predicted NDA to sweep Karnataka and Rajasthan which obviously isn’t happening).
If that happens, BJP is dropping 15-20 seats.
A small sample of what’s happening in Maharashtra (click on the date to open the tweet)
This is happening NOT because there is a Rahul Gandhi wave…but because the India Alliance is stronger.
4. Let’s tally up the numbers
The game is ALL about where BJP stands at the end.
BJP in 2019 - 303
Karnataka - 10-14 loss.
Rajasthan - 8-10 loss.
Haryana - 3-4 loss (this I need more data to be honest - but Haryana has sooo much anti-incumbency)
Bihar - 8-10 loss
Maharashtra - 15-25 loss
That brings it to 44 - 63 seats.
I have excluded Delhi where BJP might drop 2-3 (hearing reports that Manoj Tiwari is struggling against Kanhaiya Kumar).
I have assumed BJP will match it’s UP tally (a herculean task)
I have assumed BJP ain’t dropping seats in Bengal (which does look likely cos those 18 seats came in a wave election)
I have assumed the BJP won’t drop seats in Chattisgarh, Himachal, Jharkhand and many other small states.
With the reduced tally, where does BJP stand:
240-259
Assuming they don’t mess up any tough state (like WB) badly and don’t drop any more seats in the hindi hinterland & Delhi….they would still need alliance partners to form the government.
Assuming none of the partners betray them (cos God knows how many of them were threatened)...they will form the government.
If BJP slips to 220-230, it won’t form the government.
And that’s why Modi is making statements about
Mangalsutra
Mutton
Machli
Buffaloes
Now openly calling Muslims as Jihadis
Wealth tax (which isn’t even in Congress manifesto)
Ask yourself a simple question,
If BJP was on track to win 330 seats, why would someone as image conscious as Modi go and talk like this and demean his credibility at the local & international level?
He could keep talking about what he has done for people, the BJP manifesto, the future, etc, etc.
But that’s not what’s happening.
Why? Cos the game is TOO DAMN TIGHT.
Still BJP can form the government like @pillionrider mentioned
But they must be feeling a real chill down their spine.
If BJP does end up sweeping Bengal or Maharashtra or UP, they would come close to 272 on its own but that’s unlikely.
They might spring a surprise by getting a lion’s share of the seats in Telangana, Odisha but even that’s unlikely.
But if they drop seats in Bengal, UP, Delhi and a few states (along with the drops in the states I mentioned)…
It’s game over.
And the BJP knows this ALL TOO WELL.
So that’s pretty much it bro.
Closing thoughts:
1. Obvious disclaimer:
I could be 100% wrong but looking at circumstantial evidence of how everyone is behaving, chances the fight is tight. Will be a good learning experience regardless.
2. It doesn’t matter what tally NDA is projected to have. What matters is what tally BJP ends up having.
Parties like TDP, YS Jagan Mohan Reddy, Naveen Patnaik can swing any direction if BJP falls short.
Everyone thinks DMK will sweep TN 39 seats. But I have heard from one guy whom I respect that there are 8 seats in TN that DMK might be losing (which isn’t linked to India Alliance or NDA). It could be AIADMK. Remember, Edappadi Palanisamy Kongu belt had massive turnouts so it COULD be a possibility. These things may or may not materialise but let’s say it does. If the game goes down to the wire and it’s Edapaddi who has to choose between India or NDA ...chances are he will NOT pick NDA cos 2026 elections are coming and he knows BJP will do all it can to sideline AIADMK.
But on the flip side, if BJP can muster support from independent candidates to make up the numbers, Edapaddi will be the first to run to NDA alliance to be in their good books and make it easier for them to form the government.
There are tons and tons of variables here and anything can happen.
It’s like a T20 game. You are just 1-2 cameos away from winning or losing a game lol.
3. If you wanna know who is behind Congress strategy, it’s Sunil Kanugolu.
You can read about him here -
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/...dias-modi-down-10-years-after-helping-him-win
- He was with Prashant Kishore for the 2014 Lok Sabha election.
- Played a role in helping BJP win UP in 2017.
- He is the reason Congress won Karnataka and Telangana.
- Ashok Gehlot & Kamal Nath dakkans didn’t listen to him and the campaign got messed up (BJP might have won MP regardless but Rajasthan was a totally salvageable)
- Congress asked Sunil to take over full responsibility of Lok Sabha which he denied saying you need to start fighting for the next Lok Sabha from the day you lose the previous election especially when you are up against someone like Modi. He has taken partial responsibility in select seats and is trying his best.
4. For the first time ever, I am seeing Congress behaving like BJP and BJP behaving like Congress (messaging wise).
In 2014, BJP’s main message was development (and how they will tackle corruption).
In 2019, BJP’s main message was nationalism (other things matter too but they are there to add or strengthen the main message).
In 2024, their messaging is all over the place imho. Yes, there are some Modi guarantees but the focus is all over the place. When your messaging is locked in, you focus on that with precision…and not go on tangential rants about your opponents.
BJp has not been able to set a clear narrative or wave this time imho.
Yes, Ram Mandir will fetch them votes but the wave they thought it would create didn’t materialise.
On the other hand, Congress has a clear messaging about Inflation & Unemployment (which honestly is a huge huge huge problem in India) and has 5 schemes related to that. And they keep talking about it over and over and over again.
And the campaign is people centric as opposed to personality centric (which works for them cos India Alliance doesn’t have a tall leader who can command votes across the nation on his name).
5. BJP Strategy For Winning
While BJP hasn’t been good at all messaging wise (in my opinion), they can still win cos messaging is NOT the be all and end all of elections. Lots of factors play a role. Religious equation, caste equation, positioning, image, etc. Plus BJP has far better ground presence than India Alliance and that does matter.
Modi is going all out polarising because MAYBE their data shows if BJP can swing a particular % of votes, they could make up for the losses they would face in certain states.
It could work.
But if I remember correctly, whenever BJP went ultra hard on communalism, they faced defeat.
Delhi 2020 (AAP swept).
Bengal 2020 (Didi swept)
Delhi Muncipality 2022 (Aap won but didn’t sweep but that’s mostly due to them focusing too much on Gujarat plus delimitation).
But those were elections where opposition was too strong.
Here BJP is in lead and the margins are tight.
So who knows.
Time will tell.
---
Phew.
Honestly, this took me over 2 hours to compile and write yesterday night and one hour to check today....which is yet another reason I don’t post in forums these days lol.
It’s too much work lol.
By the way, I wanna say hi to all Indian and Pak resident posters….long time fellas.
Hope you are all doing well.