[PICTURES/VIDEOS] Saud Shakeel: Essential or Liability?

[Firebat]

Interesting that he was included in the squad last minute after his couple of boundaries against Afghanistan, but it seems almost impossible that he will even face a ball in the next couple months. Shame for him, he would be a brilliant #4.

 

[moghul]

Saud is a good player and could have replaced Chacah but after his century against Nepal, Saud has to wait for his chance. Agha has been doing well, so won't be replaced .

 

[Mainul]

His test Average is good and he was by far the best player in the Sri Lankan series and has been our best test batsmen for a while now.

However his slow strike rate, lack of power hitting might be a backwards approach.

With countries such as England focusing on aggression and 300 scores now being on par, Is saud shakeel a worth investment into the odi squad?

He is a better option than Agha in middle order. Agha will make Pakistan suffer in remaining matches for Pakistan in Asia cup. Please mark my words.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

He is a better option than Agha in middle order. Agha will make Pakistan suffer in remaining matches for Pakistan in Asia cup. Please mark my words.

Indeed, it's accurate to say that Salman Agha doesn't appear to be a suitable middle order batsman he comes across as rather ordinary and fragile.

Additionally, his bowling abilities are not particularly strong. Therefore, it raises the question of why he's being retained in the middle order. Saud Shakeel seems to be a better alternative.

 

[da_don]

i would get in saud for agha and imad for chacha for the world cup

 

[Cricket Warrior]

i would get in saud for agha and imad for chacha for the world cup

No iftikhar is doing well.. Immad can only be replaced with a bowling all rounder like faheem or nawaz

 

[shamaan]

Agha has been highly disappointing so far.

 

[gazza619]

Tr

We should have given these players a go, I completely agree with that. Infact saud too should have been given a fair chance at 4.

too late now. The truth is that both salman Agha & Ifti bring more to the table than Saud in white ball.

Abdullah Shafique needs to be kept as the back up batter, not Saud Shakeel

 

[FreakCricket]

Agha looks mentally weak, he got that Umar akmal energy of playing dumb shots. Saud should be the middle order you need when chasing any target since you cant rely on bits and pieces cricketers i.e shabab and ifti.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Agha looks mentally weak, he got that Umar akmal energy of playing dumb shots. Saud should be the middle order you need when chasing any target since you cant rely on bits and pieces cricketers i.e shabab and ifti.

True! We require a specialist batsman who can bolster our performance during the middle overs and Shaud Shakeel is certainly well equipped for this role.

 

[Asad T]

Agha looks mentally weak, he got that Umar akmal energy of playing dumb shots. Saud should be the middle order you need when chasing any target since you cant rely on bits and pieces cricketers i.e shabab and ifti.

Ifti has a batting average of 50 and a strike rate of 106 after 14 ODI innings. Surly, he's more than bits & pieces

 

[ads101]

Thing is agha actually earnt his place. He has a really good average and sr playing in a position we struggled to field. He also has performance in more than one format.

Saud had chances in the past and didn’t clinch his place. He had another chance against Afghanistan. He looked good for the two boundaries but didn’t get a big score. Agha on the other hand performed that match with a useful knock under pressure.

I know saud hasn’t had much chances and open to try in the future. But it seems very unfair against agha. And in reality usually the guys who perform early on end up keeping their place. Rarely do guys who start bad end up improving and cementing their place. Imam clinched it on his debut. Fakhar scored pretty much as soon as he made the team. That’s why it’s kind of dangerous to drop a guy who’s performing for a guy you hope to succeed.

 

[mominsaigol]

Thing is agha actually earnt his place. He has a really good average and sr playing in a position we struggled to field. He also has performance in more than one format.

Saud had chances in the past and didn’t clinch his place. He had another chance against Afghanistan. He looked good for the two boundaries but didn’t get a big score. Agha on the other hand performed that match with a useful knock under pressure.

I know saud hasn’t had much chances and open to try in the future. But it seems very unfair against agha. And in reality usually the guys who perform early on end up keeping their place. Rarely do guys who start bad end up improving and cementing their place. Imam clinched it on his debut. Fakhar scored pretty much as soon as he made the team. That’s why it’s kind of dangerous to drop a guy who’s performing for a guy you hope to succeed.

Saud clinched his place in test. And agha stopped clinching his place after a few good early knocks.

Fakhar and Imam have kept performing since the get go but Fakhar is starting to fizzle out now.

 

[mominsaigol]

I'm tired of people using the whole saud is only good for test excuse and agha is better. Let me explain,

When babar debut he lacked the ability to take singles and hit sixes, while babar can be somewhat limited at times he's a solid all format batter now, one who can take singles as well and hit sixes and accelerate once he gets his 100 aka dominating in the last 10 overs.

Saud is a player who just like babar is looking to improve, enjoys batting and genuinely wants to score big. His six hitting ability + strike rate can be improved and unlike babar he has no technical problems against spin nor does he have a problem of playing lofted shots like imam does, nor is he limited to jabs like rizwan.

Keep playing him at no 4 and I guarantee you he'll become an ATG for Pakistan at that position.

I can tell who will succeed and who won't. Agha at his best will either be a slightly improved version of mediocre hafeez or just worse.

Saud at no 4 will genuinely fix alot of problems and fakhar is out of form, so why not just play rizwan at opening, a position he loves and has excelled at?

 

[FreakCricket]

Ifti has a batting average of 50 and a strike rate of 106 after 14 ODI innings. Surly, he's more than bits & pieces

Average of 4, 10 against England and Australia. Only innings he has ever played is 94 against New Zealand. Extremely untested player, time will only tell.

 

[hassan918]

For me, he should be playing in place of Agha Salman in ODI cricket. He is very good against the spin bowling and give us the option to have a left-hander in the middle order.

 

[hitthestump]

For me, he should be playing in place of Agha Salman in ODI cricket. He is very good against the spin bowling and give us the option to have a left-hander in the middle order.

I'm wondering if we're better off opening Rizwan and Imam and bringing Saud at number 4.

 

[Farabi]

And this is why my friends, Saud is needed in this fragile batting line up

 

[hassan918]

I'm wondering if we're better off opening Rizwan and Imam and bringing Saud at number 4.

I think we should stick with Fakhar and Imam as the openers. Rizwan is doing a decent job at 4.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Saud would’ve done nothing in this situation, just like everyone else.

We need Harris Sohail.

 

[mominsaigol]

Saud would’ve done nothing in this situation, just like everyone else.

We need Harris Sohail.

In this situation no one would have done anything lol.

But saud is needed. Abdullah and saud are the reason we beat Sri lanka in the test series otherwise it would have been an embracing defeat.

Abdullah was just lacking confidence but he's found his form in that series. He'd extremely good in terms of timing, technique and playing front foot and back foot shots. He'll come good at opening. Fakhar is a technical hack, only legside lol.

Saud is an extremely extremely solid player. Thing with technical players is that they always improve and have an extremely high ceiling to become ATG but pakistan management is clueless when it comes to grooming youngsters.

Saud and Abdullah don't have any technical weaknesses, Imam can't play lofted shots and lacks stroke play, Babar lacks any backfoot play or sweep shots against spin, it's why he gets that lbw on the front foot, Rizwan is literally a dancer at the crease, Fakhar's stance means he can't play anything that angels away from him or towards him. Just those pull shots and leg side shots, and the occasions drive if the ball is overpitched wide.

Saud's lack of 6 hitting isn't the same issue that imam faces. He played plenty of lofted Strines against Sri lanka, he just lacks the timing needed to clear but his gane awareness allows him to pick the gaps easily and play lofted strokes safetly. His technique is good that management cam easily work in his timing and he can become a compact player.

Pakistan isn't gonna do that though because our bits and pieces players are just too precious to us.

 

[Falcon'sParwaz]

Rizwan can't stay long, it's why he got removed from test and I forgot who said it, but after that test series, a former cricketer made comments about rizwan verbatim saying that this is what happenez when you play t20 cricketers in test. They can't stay long.

Rizwan can stay long. The reason he is getting out early in tests is that he has to keep for 100+ overs && then bat at 5. Batting at 5 after keeping for 100+ overs is really difficult. Gilchrist, QDK etc used to bat mostly at 7 or sometimes at 6. Bairstow failed in recent Bazball Ashes series because he had to bat at 5 after keeping for 120+ overs.

Rizwan would be better opener than Imam (he can stay long ^). He has better SR & usually improves it as innings progress. Imam is straight out of 1990s.

 

[Falcon'sParwaz]

Do you possess any data about this? Over the past 1-2 years, Pakistan's batting strike rates have shown improvement and are now at least on par with Australia, New Zealand, and India.

Regarding your Q about data on SR of Top batters in last 2years, (min runs=500)

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

The highest Pakistani on this list is on 40th position.

It means we don't need more slow batters after Imam, Babar & Rizwan etc.
What we need is spin hitter at 4/5 to transfer pressure on opposition. We don't have Iyer or Rahul but someone like Haris or Tayyab Tahir or Kamran Ghulam should be tried at 4, instead of Saud. Saud is potential ATG in tests but he should not be in ODIs in presence of Imam Babar Rizwan - we already have plethora of consolidators in this fast scoring age. All other Top teams only have max 1 consolidator - Smith, Aus; Root, Eng; Kane, NZ; Kohli, Ind & Bavuma, SA. These consolidators can play fast too in death. Smith has 2 hundreds in 58 balls.

Regarding spin, Pakistan will face a significant spin challenge in the upcoming Asia Cup and World Cup. Stay tuned, as Pakistan's batting against spin might be exposed soon.

All teams except Afg & BD have 1 specialist spinner + 1 or 2 part timers.
If Imam Fakhar Babar Rizwan Agha Chacha Shadab (7 batters) can't handle 15/16 overs of spin, we don't need to be in india in first place.
If you want to include Saud in this consolidater XI, replace Imam with Rizwan & have Saud in at 4.
Imam Babar Rizwan Saud - these 4 - shouldn't be in same XI in 2023.

 

[Rana]

Regarding your Q about data on SR of Top batters in last 2years, (min runs=500)

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

The highest Pakistani on this list is on 40th position.

It means we don't need more slow batters after Imam, Babar & Rizwan etc.
What we need is spin hitter at 4/5 to transfer pressure on opposition. We don't have Iyer or Rahul but someone like Haris or Tayyab Tahir or Kamran Ghulam should be tried at 4, instead of Saud. Saud is potential ATG in tests but he should not be in ODIs in presence of Imam Babar Rizwan - we already have plethora of consolidators in this fast scoring age. All other Top teams only have max 1 consolidator - Smith, Aus; Root, Eng; Kane, NZ; Kohli, Ind & Bavuma, SA. These consolidators can play fast too in death. Smith has 2 hundreds in 58 balls.

All teams except Afg & BD have 1 specialist spinner + 1 or 2 part timers.
If Imam Fakhar Babar Rizwan Agha Chacha Shadab (7 batters) can't handle 15/16 overs of spin, we don't need to be in india in first place.
If you want to include Saud in this consolidater XI, replace Imam with Rizwan & have Saud in at 4.
Imam Babar Rizwan Saud - these 4 - shouldn't be in same XI in 2023.

Omg this is so embarrassing

Babar 88
Rizwan 87
Imam 86

I would think 2021-23 was the year 2003-2005 for these 3

 

[Rana]

Omg this is so embarrassing

Babar 88
Rizwan 87
Imam 86

I would think 2021-23 was the year 2003-2005 for these 3

And it’s the same kind of nonsense you see from these types of players in T20 as well, and they get the lion share of the powerplay in this format.

When will we finally wake up as a nation!

 

[Falcon'sParwaz]

Omg this is so embarrassing

Babar 88
Rizwan 87
Imam 86

I would think 2021-23 was the year 2003-2005 for these 3

& most people want Saud (SR~85) in XI too. Either it shows desperation or unfortunately it's a sign of decreasing critical thinking ability as a nation.

 

[Rana]

& most people want Saud (SR~85) in XI too. Either it shows desperation or unfortunately it's a sign of decreasing critical thinking ability as a nation.

Well Saud didn’t get an 85 strike rate playing mostly B teams and on Pindi roads

They want Saud to steer the ship on Bunsen burners

 

[Falcon'sParwaz]

Well Saud didn’t get an 85 strike rate playing mostly B teams and on Pindi roads

They want Saud to steer the ship on Bunsen burners

Most teams in this WC have 1 specialist spinner & 1 or 2 part timers, except Afg & BD.

If Babar Imam Fakhar Rizwan Agha Chacha Shadab Faheem/Nawaz/Jnr (8 batters) can't handle 15/16 overs of spin, we don't have any right to be playing WC.

 

[Markhor]

Regarding your Q about data on SR of Top batters in last 2years, (min runs=500)

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

The highest Pakistani on this list is on 40th position.

It means we don't need more slow batters after Imam, Babar & Rizwan etc.
What we need is spin hitter at 4/5 to transfer pressure on opposition. We don't have Iyer or Rahul but someone like Haris or Tayyab Tahir or Kamran Ghulam should be tried at 4, instead of Saud. Saud is potential ATG in tests but he should not be in ODIs in presence of Imam Babar Rizwan - we already have plethora of consolidators in this fast scoring age. All other Top teams only have max 1 consolidator - Smith, Aus; Root, Eng; Kane, NZ; Kohli, Ind & Bavuma, SA. These consolidators can play fast too in death. Smith has 2 hundreds in 58 balls.

All teams except Afg & BD have 1 specialist spinner + 1 or 2 part timers.
If Imam Fakhar Babar Rizwan Agha Chacha Shadab (7 batters) can't handle 15/16 overs of spin, we don't need to be in india in first place.
If you want to include Saud in this consolidater XI, replace Imam with Rizwan & have Saud in at 4.
Imam Babar Rizwan Saud - these 4 - shouldn't be in same XI in 2023.

Love it when people back up their arguments with actual data. Wow that's atrocious from a Pakistani POV.

I changed the start date to after the 2019 World Cup, and still there's only 2 PAK batsmen in the top 50.

Tayyab Tahir would've been my pick for one of the middle-order slots but think he's still in the doghouse for that poor AFG T20 series.

 

[MenInG]

Finally gets a chance to play in the Asia Cup

Included in the Playing Xi for the game against Sri Lanka

 

[vprasanna83]

Finally gets a chance to play in the Asia Cup

Included in the Playing Xi for the game against Sri Lanka

Good move . May supply the much needed solidity to the batting

 

[Farabi]

Regarding your Q about data on SR of Top batters in last 2years, (min runs=500)

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

The highest Pakistani on this list is on 40th position.

It means we don't need more slow batters after Imam, Babar & Rizwan etc.
What we need is spin hitter at 4/5 to transfer pressure on opposition. We don't have Iyer or Rahul but someone like Haris or Tayyab Tahir or Kamran Ghulam should be tried at 4, instead of Saud. Saud is potential ATG in tests but he should not be in ODIs in presence of Imam Babar Rizwan - we already have plethora of consolidators in this fast scoring age. All other Top teams only have max 1 consolidator - Smith, Aus; Root, Eng; Kane, NZ; Kohli, Ind & Bavuma, SA. These consolidators can play fast too in death. Smith has 2 hundreds in 58 balls.

All teams except Afg & BD have 1 specialist spinner + 1 or 2 part timers.
If Imam Fakhar Babar Rizwan Agha Chacha Shadab (7 batters) can't handle 15/16 overs of spin, we don't need to be in india in first place.
If you want to include Saud in this consolidater XI, replace Imam with Rizwan & have Saud in at 4.
Imam Babar Rizwan Saud - these 4 - shouldn't be in same XI in 2023.

The strike rate debate is totally bloated and irrelevant when the team is struggling to play 50 overs and compete with top teams, specially on supportive pitches. Without Babar and Imam, this is a minnow level batting quality.

The way to score 100 SR is through better strike rotation. Don’t need six hitters, need folks who can rotate the strike well.

Don’t see Pakistan being competitive without a solid bat like Saud in there

 

[Rana]

Finally gets a chance to play in the Asia Cup

Included in the Playing Xi for the game against Sri Lanka

It’s a forced change. They have been forced to make this change because of Wallalage

 

[mominsaigol]

& most people want Saud (SR~85) in XI too. Either it shows desperation or unfortunately it's a sign of decreasing critical thinking ability as a nation.

Saud atm isn't a full flourished player. I have said this over and over and yet everyone think I am pure saud fanboy on this forumn.

Atm saud in terms of strike rate is limited and is not fully developed for odi. The thing about saud is he is technically compact, unlike Imam, Fakhar and rizwan who are technically limited and can't play certain strokes and are clueless to good bowling.

Saud doesn't have any of these issues, give him the same long run at the top prder and not only will his strike rate improve, he's genuinely surpassing babar, Imam, Fakhar and rizwan no question. That's why technically compact players always succeed. Sachin, devillers, Pointing all we're technically compact and hence they sucked early on in their careers but their ceiling were Infinite in terms of improvement.

Imam, rizwan, fakhar and even babar, they are destined to struggle against certain deliveries and will always be accumulators.

Saud and Abdullah and saim can turn into ATG's if and only if they are groomed, but that will not happen because of our annoying neptostic culture that has existed ever since I started watching cricket from 2011.

Theirs a reason India keeps getting players like shubman Gill, Ishan kishan, pandya, Kudleep and always manages to replace their previous players like dhawan, Raina, Harbajan Singh etc, its because these players are groomed and their always technically compact.

Pakistan however loves playing technically inept stat padders at the top. Fakhar, babar, rizwan and Imam are all gonna be at 50/ 4 everytine pakistan plays this world cup. Their about to be exposed, just like how they were exposed in Australia.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Agha hasn't been dropped it's cos of the cut he got in the India match.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

tomorrow's game against SL is a big match for Saud Shakeel, he needs to perform if he want to get his permanent slot into the worldcup.

 

[Naveedahmed1]

Saud is not a ready product yet - we need Harris Sohail

 

[mominsaigol]

tomorrow's game against SL is a big match for Saud Shakeel, he needs to perform if he want to get his permanent slot into the worldcup.

My fear is that they'll send him to bat at no 5 meaning he'll either come in early because of a collapse, or he'll come in late at over 32 or 33 which is not when he shpuld be batting.

I hope haris is slotted at no 7 and rizwan opens. I don't like rizwan but hope he opens so saud can be slotted at no 4 where he rightfully belongs.

 

[mominsaigol]

Saud is not a ready product yet - we need Harris Sohail

He isn't a ready product but he will become one very very quickly trust me.

As for haris. I love haris sohail, this lad should have been pur middle order no 4 great. But his knee injury and problems with fitness recovery meant he had to receive an early exit which is sad.

Otherwise haris would have ensured rizwan never saw the light of day.

 

[shamaan]

I'm tired of people using the whole saud is only good for test excuse and agha is better. Let me explain,

When babar debut he lacked the ability to take singles and hit sixes, while babar can be somewhat limited at times he's a solid all format batter now, one who can take singles as well and hit sixes and accelerate once he gets his 100 aka dominating in the last 10 overs.

Saud is a player who just like babar is looking to improve, enjoys batting and genuinely wants to score big. His six hitting ability + strike rate can be improved and unlike babar he has no technical problems against spin nor does he have a problem of playing lofted shots like imam does, nor is he limited to jabs like rizwan.

Keep playing him at no 4 and I guarantee you he'll become an ATG for Pakistan at that position.

I can tell who will succeed and who won't. Agha at his best will either be a slightly improved version of mediocre hafeez or just worse.

Saud at no 4 will genuinely fix alot of problems and fakhar is out of form, so why not just play rizwan at opening, a position he loves and has excelled at?

But if they ain't willing to play Rizwan at 5 then Saud should not play.

 

[mominsaigol]

But if they ain't willing to play Rizwan at 5 then Saud should not play.

Why? On what basis does rizwan merit a place ahead of haris, Abdullah and saud?

Haris isn't the most technically sound, but he's fearless and defo the best no 7 we can ask for so he's a good utility asset.

Abdullah is literally our 3rd opener so I don't get why he wasn't chosen in place of fakhar being dropped.

Saud is a solid no 4. Rizwan ain't ever achieving 200 in test in his life no matter where he bats. Theirs a reason an out of form sarfraz replaced him and performed better.

Ik test and odi aren't the same but looking at both players saud is technically far far far superior to rizwan who's a dancer at the crease.

Rizwan is a mediocre bat. He's not as bad as rana makes him out to be but he is not THE BEST WICKETKEEPER BATSMEN PAKISTAN HAS EVER PRODUCED. Rizwan is a mediocre bat, plain and simple. Saud is raw in odi but play him as many tines a rizwan and make him you're golden boy, by giving him shadab and Babar Level privileges and he'll play knocks rizwan can only dream off, oh wait? He already did against Sri lanka.

 

[Asad T]

I think with the array of left arm spinners that Lanka have, having a lefty in the middle order will be important.

@mominsaigol, I don't want to get too off topic here, but since you brought it up -- who do you reckon is the best wicketkeeper batsman we have produced

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Why? On what basis does rizwan merit a place ahead of haris, Abdullah and saud?

Haris isn't the most technically sound, but he's fearless and defo the best no 7 we can ask for so he's a good utility asset.

Abdullah is literally our 3rd opener so I don't get why he wasn't chosen in place of fakhar being dropped.

Saud is a solid no 4. Rizwan ain't ever achieving 200 in test in his life no matter where he bats. Theirs a reason an out of form sarfraz replaced him and performed better.

Ik test and odi aren't the same but looking at both players saud is technically far far far superior to rizwan who's a dancer at the crease.

Rizwan is a mediocre bat. He's not as bad as rana makes him out to be but he is not THE BEST WICKETKEEPER BATSMEN PAKISTAN HAS EVER PRODUCED. Rizwan is a mediocre bat, plain and simple. Saud is raw in odi but play him as many tines a rizwan and make him you're golden boy, by giving him shadab and Babar Level privileges and he'll play knocks rizwan can only dream off, oh wait? He already did against Sri lanka.

oh come on! rizwan is way better than harris in any mean, how you can put someone ahead of that guy who has achieved alot and proved his worth already.

 

[mominsaigol]

I think with the array of left arm spinners that Lanka have, having a lefty in the middle order will be important.

@mominsaigol, I don't want to get too off topic here, but since you brought it up -- who do you reckon is the best wicketkeeper batsman we have produced

The thing is, I was only 11 years old when I started watching cricket in 2011 and even then I didn't understand the game until I started watching full time in 2014, so beyond highlights I can't really say.

Only wicketkeepers I have personally seen are sarfraz, Haris, Umar akmal and Rizwan.

Umar akmal wasn't a keeper so won't mention him. But

2015 sarfraz was alot better then rizwan. Sarfraz scored against 1st string sides and his dominating performance against South Africa where he and wahab single handedly won the game is something rizwan can never achieve, Nor can rizwan score a 100 from a collapsed position like sarfraz did against a bowling line up consisting of plunket, woakes, wood, rashid, moeen Ali.

Sarfraz regressed later on but due to age, poor fitness. Sarfraz is old now and clearly on his last legs but the fact that an out of form sarfraz replaced rizwan and literally showed rizwan how test is played and how test centuries are made proves my point.

2015 sarfraz is superior to rizwan, its why his has been bootleg 2023 version removed rizwan from test. Rizwan is a mediocre bat, he isn't as bad a bat as rana or other posters here make him out to be, but he ain't a legendary no 2 ranked t20 batsmen that people make him out to be either.

Sarfraz would never have played such an atrocious match losing knock in the last Asia cup that rizwan played lol. Prime rizwan is a medicore bat whereas prime sarfraz was literally considered oxygen for the team, and our entire 2015 team literally relied on him to perform and save us so much so that misbah was eating his words he made about nasir jamshedpur and called sarfraz as the sole X factor. He's the reason we even made quarterfinals.

I'm not trying to make sarfraz into Butler or anything, but sarfraz during his prime was a decent bat and a utility player, not an ATG or legendary bat, but a decent player who could perform against 1st string attacks. Rizwan is a medicore bat who's stat padded against 2nd string attacks, and was so useless down the middle order, that misbah placed him at opening, because he simply can't function anywhere else.

 

[mominsaigol]

oh come on! rizwan is way better that harris in any mean, how you can put someone ahead of that guy who has achieved alot and proved his worth already.

Not saying Haris is better then Rizwan. But if you give haris the same Golden boy treatment at opening you've given rizwan, then haris will surpass rizwan extremely quickly.

Furthermore even current haris who lacks experience and is extremely raw not only showed rizwan how t20 batting is done during the Australia t20 world cup, he's also a utility player.

Haris can be utilised at no 7 and can be a proper finisher. Rizwan is a medicore bat. Not as bad as rana makes him out to be, but he ain't the no 2 t20 legend that people think he is either.

Rizwan was so bad down the order that misbah promoted him to open because the guy can't function anywhere else, and rizwan has stat padded him way to the top against 2nd string sides or beaten 1st string sides on batting paradise pitches, Theirs a reason babar and rizwam were exposed in Australia.

Rizwan is an accumulator and a worse accumulator then Babar and imam since those 2 are atleast world class at accumulating.

In a nutshell, Haris is raw and inexperienced but has a higher ceiling then rizwan and is a utility player at no 7, a position we sorely sorely need to cover and he can cover it as shadab is a horrible implementation at that number. Whereas rizwan is a proven failure at 6 and 7, and hogs the important no 1 to no 4 slot in odi and t20 being extremely medicore at it.

Rizwan is overrated, he ain't as bad as rana makes him out to be, but you're sorely mistaken if you think rizwan is a match winner.

 

[shamaan]

Why? On what basis does rizwan merit a place ahead of haris, Abdullah and saud?

Haris isn't the most technically sound, but he's fearless and defo the best no 7 we can ask for so he's a good utility asset.

Abdullah is literally our 3rd opener so I don't get why he wasn't chosen in place of fakhar being dropped.

Saud is a solid no 4. Rizwan ain't ever achieving 200 in test in his life no matter where he bats. Theirs a reason an out of form sarfraz replaced him and performed better.

Ik test and odi aren't the same but looking at both players saud is technically far far far superior to rizwan who's a dancer at the crease.

Rizwan is a mediocre bat. He's not as bad as rana makes him out to be but he is not THE BEST WICKETKEEPER BATSMEN PAKISTAN HAS EVER PRODUCED. Rizwan is a mediocre bat, plain and simple. Saud is raw in odi but play him as many tines a rizwan and make him you're golden boy, by giving him shadab and Babar Level privileges and he'll play knocks rizwan can only dream off, oh wait? He already did against Sri lanka.

Rizwan is playing as a keeper batsman he either opens or bats at 5/6 you should not compare him to a pure batter.

 

[mominsaigol]

Rizwan is playing as a keeper batsman he either opens or bats at 5/6 you should not compare him to a pure batter.

Rizwan will fail at 6 like he use to. Also why? That logic would not apply if I said kumar sangakara or MS Dhoni is superior to someone like suresh raina or angelo mattews lol.

Rizwan is a medicore batsmen, if he is opening then compare him to openers or if he is batting at 5 and 6 then compare him to 5 and 6.

He is not a better opener then imam or Abdullah, at 5 and 6 their are genuinely better option in tayyab and imad waseem. Rizwan ain't a no 6. No 5 is he was good against a 2nd string side on a flat pitch where everyone was scoring 300+ scores like dolly's.

 

[Naveedahmed1]

He isn't a ready product but he will become one very very quickly trust me.

As for haris. I love haris sohail, this lad should have been pur middle order no 4 great. But his knee injury and problems with fitness recovery meant he had to receive an early exit which is sad.

Otherwise haris would have ensured rizwan never saw the light of day.

Getting him ready during a World Cup is setting him up for failure. After World Cup saud should be groomed

Harris Sohail was on his come back and played a few matches when Afridi was made selector

He then had a freak collision during fielding practice with shadab khan who tried to be a hero and dive to intercept a catch meant for Harris

His latest injury had nothing to do with fitness

Afridi had made him do a fitness / yo-yo test

 

[mominsaigol]

Getting him ready during a World Cup is setting him up for failure. After World Cup saud should be groomed

Harris Sohail was on his come back and played a few matches when Afridi was made selector

He then had a freak collision during fielding practice with shadab khan who tried to be a hero and dive to intercept a catch meant for Harris

His latest injury had nothing to do with fitness

Afridi had made him do a fitness / yo-yo test

I agree with you, as I said I'm thinking long term. This world cup is already lost lol.

But ik this grooming won't happen, Pur management has been brain dead since I started watching cricket.

 

[Firebat]

He's essential because without him the top 3 are the only actual batters in the team. Rizwan, Iftikhar, Agha etc don't belong anywhere before #6.

 

[Asad T]

Uff, just when we were excited to see Saud play today, he has come down with a fever. Quite unfortunate for him and for us too. I think we will have a hard time against the lankan left arm spinners with a middle and lower order full of right handers

 

[Falcon'sParwaz]

Theirs a reason India keeps getting players like Shubman Gill, Ishan kishan, pandya, Kudleep and always manages to replace their previous players like dhawan, Raina, Harbajan Singh etc, its because these players are groomed and their always technically compact.

You are missing the main point in your love of Saud & A.Shafique.

Indian new batters Gill & Ishan Kishan etc are technically correct but they strike at over 100 in ODIs. Gill avg 60+ with SR of 102.
Saud & A.Shafique (& Imam) are straight out of 1980s. There's no place for them in modern ODIs.

 

[mominsaigol]

You are missing the main point in your love of Saud & A.Shafique.

Indian new batters Gill & Ishan Kishan etc are technically correct but they strike at over 100 in ODIs. Gill avg 60+ with SR of 102.
Saud & A.Shafique (& Imam) are straight out of 1980s. There's no place for them in modern ODIs.

Bhai their SR will improve. Trust.

 

[Firebat]

Wasim Akram on comms seemingly not buying PCB's line about Saud's fever - giving theories on how Saud was "dropped" after Imam's injury for team balance reasons.

 

[Falcon'sParwaz]

The strike rate debate is totally bloated and irrelevant when the team is struggling to play 50 overs and compete with top teams, specially on supportive pitches. Without Babar and Imam, this is a minnow level batting quality.

The way to score 100 SR is through better strike rotation. Don’t need six hitters, need folks who can rotate the strike well.

Don’t see Pakistan being competitive without a solid bat like Saud in there

Eng struggled to bat 50 overs in 2015 ODI WC.

What did they do after?

1. Did they packed their team with players who can bat 50 overs. OR
2. they packed their team with better SR players and batted all the way up to no.11.

They rightly picked 2nd option & are now LOI champions. That was in 2015.
Now it's 2023 & some people still think that 1st option is better. !!!

We don't learn from history. We are not learning from our competitors. This is not the way to survive in this cruel world.

 

[aukhan]

Let him play first then judge him. If he fails in 5 matches discard him from ODIs.

The biggest liability currently is VC Shadab.

 

[Falcon'sParwaz]

Bhai their SR will improve. Trust.

So you are saying if we play those players who have near perfect techniques in ODIs, they will improve their SR with time too.

Do you have any examples from recent history to prove your point?

Babar's SR is below 90. Imam's SR is below 85. When these 2 can't improve their SR to near 100, how can Saud improve his SR?

For comparison, Kohli SR in last 2 years is 106. Shubman Gill's SR is 100+ & avg is 60+. It means you can only improve your SR if you have good SR before & have power game.

 

[mominsaigol]

So you are saying if we play those players who have near perfect techniques in ODIs, they will improve their SR with time too.

Do you have any examples from recent history to prove your point?

Babar's SR is below 90. Imam's SR is below 85. When these 2 can't improve their SR to near 100, how can Saud improve his SR?

For comparison, Kohli SR in last 2 years is 106. Shubman Gill's SR is 100+ & avg is 60+. It means you can only improve your SR if you have good SR before & have power game.

Babar improved his sr against fast over the years from 80 to 90, he sucks and is limited against spin.

Imam never had the technique to play lofted shots. He peaked when he debuted.

Just relax, and watch Abdullah play today, and them watch him play the upcoming games and watch how he improves and becomes a more valuable assesst then imam ever will, Abdullah already surpassed imam in test. Same is about to happen today and the upcoming odi's.

 

[Farabi]

You are missing the main point in your love of Saud & A.Shafique.

Indian new batters Gill & Ishan Kishan etc are technically correct but they strike at over 100 in ODIs. Gill avg 60+ with SR of 102.
Saud & A.Shafique (& Imam) are straight out of 1980s. There's no place for them in modern ODIs.

But saud and Abhdullah haven’t even played ODIs lol

 

[Falcon'sParwaz]

But saud and Abhdullah haven’t even played ODIs lol

childish reply. We have their List A stats to assess their SR in odis.

I think, in long run, A.Shafique will fare better than Imam. But if both are in same team as openers (& it feels likely after today's match), then we would be constantly posting sub-par totals.

 

[Farabi]

childish reply. We have their List A stats to assess their SR in odis.

I think, in long run, A.Shafique will fare better than Imam. But if both are in same team as openers (& it feels likely after today's match), then we would be constantly posting sub-par totals.

Yes, list A stats are an indication but it’s not exactly apples to apples.
If anyone of Abhdullah and Rizwan get out, I can tell you the rest of this team will collapse and Pak will be out of the Asia cup.
The SR bridge needs to understand Pak doesn’t have eng type of talent. Saud is a must!

 

[Falcon'sParwaz]

Babar improved his sr against fast over the years from 80 to 90, he sucks and is limited against spin.

Imam never had the technique to play lofted shots. He peaked when he debuted.

Just relax, and watch Abdullah play today, and them watch him play the upcoming games and watch how he improves and becomes a more valuable assesst then imam ever will, Abdullah already surpassed imam in test. Same is about to happen today and the upcoming odi's.

Babar's SR in last 2 years is 88.
He can improve it to 90 for sure. Imam can also improve his SR up-to around 90. Rizwan, Saud & Abdullah can also up their max.SR to 90 in ODIs.

i-e 5 top order batters with max.90 SR in same team, potentially playing up till 2031 WC. This (90 SR) was acceptable in 2010s. (Root will find difficult keeping his place in Eng ODI squad after upcoming WC. & he has better shot-making ability than our top 5)
We are 10years behind Eng, Aus & IND in LOIs.

Just relax, and watch Abdullah play today, and them watch him play the upcoming games

I'm aware you are also posting these kind of posts in match thread & demanding recognition from everyone that you supported him & saud here on pp. It only shows your insecurity.

We will all recognize your eye for talent, rightfully, only if A.Shafique hits 1000 ODI runs with Avg of 50+ & SR of 100+. Otherwise, we will say you hyped a mediocre player, he is just a moderate upgrade over Imam the consolidator.

 

[mominsaigol]

Babar's SR in last 2 years is 88.
He can improve it to 90 for sure. Imam can also improve his SR up-to around 90. Rizwan, Saud & Abdullah can also up their max.SR to 90 in ODIs.

i-e 5 top order batters with max.90 SR in same team, potentially playing up till 2031 WC. This (90 SR) was acceptable in 2010s. (Root will find difficult keeping his place in Eng ODI squad after upcoming WC. & he has better shot-making ability than our top 5)
We are 10years behind Eng, Aus & IND in LOIs.


I'm aware you are also posting these kind of posts in match thread & demanding recognition from everyone that you supported him & saud here on pp. It only shows your insecurity.

We will all recognize your eye for talent, rightfully, only if A.Shafique hits 1000 ODI runs with Avg of 50+ & SR of 100+. Otherwise, we will say you hyped a mediocre player, he is just a moderate upgrade over Imam the consolidator.

Brother not even imam or babar hit 100 runs at a strike rate of 100, and imam and Babar hit that 50 fraud average with 2nd string sides.

I am demanding recognition because I'm showing people the light.

Abdullah today in a pressure disposable situation came in and played spin better then Babar ever could, despite the fact that he was asked to play in a Semi final, with zero match practise in the previous games, under the pressure situation that he's disposable and has to perform or he's booted out of the team whereas imam has a golden boy treatment.

I'm not saying Abdullah will be Gill or kishan, don't put words into my mouth, he is a damn better opener even in his current raw state then imam or fakhar are. That's a fact and he has a ceiling to improve, imam doesn't.

 

[Falcon'sParwaz]

Yes, list A stats are an indication but it’s not exactly apples to apples.
If anyone of Abhdullah and Rizwan get out, I can tell you the rest of this team will collapse and Pak will be out of the Asia cup.
The SR bridge needs to understand Pak doesn’t have eng type of talent. Saud is a must!

First accept there is a problem. Then rectify it. Then we shall also have Eng type of talent.

Now even Aus & India have top 6 batsman that strike at 100+ (except Smith for Aus, & he hit 58 ball 100s twice in 2020/21)

We are mid-table level team.

 

[FreakCricket]

Hack Haris was preferred over Solid Saud is mind boggling, Team Mgmt needs to be fired.

 

[Farabi]

Hack Haris was preferred over Solid Saud is mind boggling, Team Mgmt needs to be fired.

Yes, and posters here arguing we need SR. It’s unbelievable how Saud wasn’t in the 11. Haris looked like fish out of water. As usual, we are not going to be able to play out 50 overs

 

[Falcon'sParwaz]

Brother not even imam or babar hit 100 runs at a strike rate of 100,

That's why I said we don't need all of Babar Imam A.Shafique Saud Rizwan in same XI. Top 5 playing with 90 SR was acceptable in 2010s.

I am demanding recognition because I'm showing people the light.

lol. You are showing us light from previous eras.

Iqbal said
Aain-e-Nau se darna, tarz-e-kuhan pe arna
Manzil yehi kathan ha qomon ki zindagi me

Abdullah today in a pressure disposable situation came in and played spin better then Babar ever could

He had many chances & one umpires call going his way.

under the pressure situation that he's disposable and has to perform or he's booted out of the team

He booked his place in WC with that 50. He & Imam would be our openers in upcoming WC. Avg score of Pak after 1st PP would be around 40/50, while Eng & Aus would score 70/80 on avg in PP.

 

[Farabi]

That's why I said we don't need all of Babar Imam A.Shafique Saud Rizwan in same XI. Top 5 playing with 90 SR was acceptable in 2010s.


lol. You are showing us light from previous eras.

Iqbal said
Aain-e-Nau se darna, tarz-e-kuhan pe arna
Manzil yehi kathan ha qomon ki zindagi me

He had many chances & one umpires call going his way.

He booked his place in WC with that 50. He & Imam would be our openers in upcoming WC. Avg score of Pak after 1st PP would be around 40/50, while Eng & Aus would score 70/80 on avg in PP.

Are you sure pak will bat 45 overs today?

 

[Falcon'sParwaz]

Yes, and posters here arguing we need SR. It’s unbelievable how Saud wasn’t in the 11. Haris looked like fish out of water. As usual, we are not going to be able to play out 50 overs

Yes, He is not middle order spin basher. He played T20WC as an opener while this years' Emerging Asia Cup as no.6 finisher --> it shows he is better against pace i-e: opener or finisher.

He is another player we are destroying by making him bat out of his position. @mominsaigol

 

[mominsaigol]

That's why I said we don't need all of Babar Imam A.Shafique Saud Rizwan in same XI. Top 5 playing with 90 SR was acceptable in 2010s.


lol. You are showing us light from previous eras.

Iqbal said
Aain-e-Nau se darna, tarz-e-kuhan pe arna
Manzil yehi kathan ha qomon ki zindagi me

He had many chances & one umpires call going his way.

He booked his place in WC with that 50. He & Imam would be our openers in upcoming WC. Avg score of Pak after 1st PP would be around 40/50, while Eng & Aus would score 70/80 on avg in PP.

Bro, I respect all your opinions and I am not completly disagreeing with you, nor do I have any love affairs.

I am advocating for Abdullah and saim ayub opening, with saud at no 4 and tayyab, imad and haris as our middle order.

Yes Abdullah did, but he patient, Abdullah is playing at opening in odi for the first time under a pressure situation. With zero match practise he was slotted in to open with the mindset of being dropped rather then being given the golden boy treatment we've been giving imam and fakhar for years. On top of that he's facing a bowler who just dismmised babar and destroyed India In the previous game.

Based of all these circumstances he did well and already looked better then any of our current batsmen who atm are all struggling to stay at the crease.

Yes Abdullah is raw but unlike imam who can't even hit, Abdullah has lofted shots as seen when he came down the crease for a 6 and played these shots in the PSL. Just like Rome wasn't built in a day, Abdullah won't be the player i enviosned him to become either. That'll only happen if he gets a golden boy treatment that imam has. But he has the ability to strike and will inprove, imam however hasn't done that since 2018, same old, same old. So please relax and just trust.

As I said, Saim and Abdullah opening with saud at 4 and tayyab at 5, imad at 6 and haris at 7 isn't the optimal solution as of yet, but it is way way way better then what pakistan is doing and how our current crop is being exposed even now against Sri lanka.

 

[Farabi]

Yes, He is not middle order spin basher. He played T20WC as an opener while this years' Emerging Asia Cup as no.6 finisher --> it shows he is better against pace i-e: opener or finisher.

He is another player we are destroying by making him bat out of his position. @mominsaigol

He doesn’t have the technique to polish the boot of an opener. At best, he’s Shadab level no7 batter.

 

[mominsaigol]

Yes, He is not middle order spin basher. He played T20WC as an opener while this years' Emerging Asia Cup as no.6 finisher --> it shows he is better against pace i-e: opener or finisher.

He is another player we are destroying by making him bat out of his position. @mominsaigol

Haris is a no 7 finisher. Sending him at no 5 in collapsed positions is suicide by our brain dead management.

 

[Falcon'sParwaz]

Are you sure pak will bat 45 overs today?

I'm sure Eng can last 50 overs on this pitch 8 out of 10 times.

2 reasons

1. They have hitters & excellent Strike rotators. Hitting & constant strike rotation puts pressure on bowling team & mess up their line&lenghts & strategy/plans
2. They bat up-to no.11. This gives insurance to their top order to play risk free.

 

[Farabi]

I'm sure Eng can last 50 overs on this pitch 8 out of 10 times.

2 reasons

1. They have hitters & excellent Strike rotators. Hitting & constant strike rotation puts pressure on bowling team & mess up their line&lenghts & strategy/plans
2. They bat up-to no.11. This gives insurance to their top order to play risk free.

Lol answer the question. Will Pak bat 45 overs today

 

[Falcon'sParwaz]

Lol answer the question. Will Pak bat 45 overs today

Plz try to comprehend my answer. I was vouching for Eng/Aus/Ind like approach.

Pak selected team with old school thinking. May be you can answer this question.

Had Pak selected this team along modern lines, I would have taken the responsibility.

 

[Farabi]

Plz try to comprehend my answer. I was vouching for Eng/Aus/Ind like approach.

Pak selected team with old school thinking. May be you can answer this question.

Had Pak selected this team along modern lines, I would have taken the responsibility.

All top 5 of India are proper bats who play test cricket.

 

[Falcon'sParwaz]

Talking about England as if painting a horse black and white makes it a zebra

To get a new zebra, you need male & female zebra.

To get players like Eng, we need to revamp all our domestic structures.
e.g:
Award batters if they play at higher SR, award bowlers if they have lower SR, award batting team for higher RR, award bowling team if they bundle out opposition early. etc.

 

[Farabi]

To get a new zebra, you need male & female zebra.

To get players like Eng, we need to revamp all our domestic structures.
e.g:
Award batters if they play at higher SR, award bowlers if they have lower SR, award batting team for higher RR, award bowling team if they bundle out opposition early. etc.

Exactly. First do that, produce zebras and then come back and propose this.
At this minute, work with the resources available. Fake “SR batters” like Haris are liabilities.
Pak will be competitive as long as it can bat out 50 overs

 

[Falcon'sParwaz]

All top 5 of India are proper bats who play test cricket.

in ODIs --- Gill SR is 102, Rohit 109 in last 2y, Kohli 106 in last 2y, Kishan 102 & Rahul is 360 degree player

 

[Falcon'sParwaz]

At this minute, work with the resources available

We are listening this line since ages.

Eng revamped its National Team approach & domestic structure pretty much at the same time after 2015WC defeat. Domestic players knew they would only be selected if they played with higher SR in cc.