[PICTURES] Will BazBall thrive in India?

[FearlessRoar]

Bazzball just converted into Jassball

 

[greatest]

Bazball is doing more harm than good for England. It's time they play proper Test match cricket. They should change their approach or sack McCullum.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Billion dollar industry wali team took inspiration from our very own Rambo regarding pitch preparation.

This pitch is way better than 5 out of 8 pitches in Pakistan for the NZ/OZ/ENG tours.

 

[Varun]

39.5 Root out against the run of play! And this is a big wicket for India's morale, inside five overs of day three. Root falls prey to his own improvisation, trying to play a reverse scoop/reverse ramp over the slip cordon, but Jaiswal at second slip keeps his eyes on the ball and takes a very tricky catch. This was a full ball just outside off, and Root wanted to make full use of the acres of space at deep third. Wasn't to be and that's England three down! 224/3

---

LOL.

 

[Energy]

England have been humiliated today and had it not been for a freak Pope innings in the first test, would've been looking at a 3-0 drubbing.

 

[SamNJ]

I knew at some point it will come under heavy criticism from English fans. Because while playing aggressively you are just one shot away from looking absolutely stupid.
That said, if it wasn't for bazball, England would lose first test too. Aggressive batting by Pope and others pushed England for victory there.
Got to take bad with the good.

 

[Forum363]

39.5 Root out against the run of play! And this is a big wicket for India's morale, inside five overs of day three. Root falls prey to his own improvisation, trying to play a reverse scoop/reverse ramp over the slip cordon, but Jaiswal at second slip keeps his eyes on the ball and takes a very tricky catch. This was a full ball just outside off, and Root wanted to make full use of the acres of space at deep third. Wasn't to be and that's England three down! 224/3

---

LOL.

Yes @Mamoon this is Stokes’ fault that Root is playing like an idiot.

A veteran of the game has been ‘pressured’ into playing reverse scoops and running down the pitch. I wonder if they threatened him with violence or whether it was just that they’d drop their most successful player if he didn’t play a stupid shot every over?

Poor Root. I hope Stokes is fired so he can stop being afraid and not play shots like these.

 

[gibsyhesperis]

I hate the ridiculous hype around Bazball.

This team are incapable of reading the match situation well enough to adapt. With India a bowler down there was an opportunity to capitalise, but through some injudicious play AND some very good bowling, they are close to being out of the game from a point when they were right in it.


Poor, unintelligent and foolhardy — they will lose and deserve to do so

 

[FearlessRoar]

After a tough third day in Rajkot, it's hard to see England pulling off a win. The Bazball project, led by Brendon McCullum and Stokes since 2022, has improved England's Test performance, winning 14 of the last 20 matches.

But, on days like today, with missed opportunities and reckless batting, they need to own up to their mistakes. Bazball turned around a team that struggled before 2022, but in this match, England's lack of smart decisions and a streetwise approach is glaring. They've been here before and seem to have missed the lessons.

 

[gibsyhesperis]

After a tough third day in Rajkot, it's hard to see England pulling off a win. The Bazball project, led by Brendon McCullum and Stokes since 2022, has improved England's Test performance, winning 14 of the last 20 matches.

But, on days like today, with missed opportunities and reckless batting, they need to own up to their mistakes. Bazball turned around a team that struggled before 2022, but in this match, England's lack of smart decisions and a streetwise approach is glaring. They've been here before and seem to have missed the lessons.

Whilst England have won 14/20, it is also fair to say that only three countries now play a significant amount of Test cricket and give the format any priority — England, Australia and India. Bazball hasn't won a series against either Aus or India. A home series victory against South Africa, two years ago, does not warrant the hype.
Neither this Indian side, or indeed the current Aus side are anywhere near as strong as their sides of the past.

Victories against the second tier Test sides simply does not cut it.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I hate the ridiculous hype around Bazball.

This team are incapable of reading the match situation well enough to adapt. With India a bowler down there was an opportunity to capitalise, but through some injudicious play AND some very good bowling, they are close to being out of the game from a point when they were right in it.


Poor, unintelligent and foolhardy — they will lose and deserve to do so

Today they should have tried to bat India the game and make Bumrah and Jadeja bowl until their arms couldnt move to try and tire them out for the remainder of the series.

Poorly executed plans.

Im still a fan of bazball overall but they need to be a bit more intelligent sometimes.

Perhaps the think tank believe that picking and choosing when to bazball will introduce doubt into the players and it's better to keep the pedal to the metal all the time.

 

[gibsyhesperis]

Today they should have tried to bat India the game and make Bumrah and Jadeja bowl until their arms couldnt move to try and tire them out for the remainder of the series.

Poorly executed plans.

Im still a fan of bazball overall but they need to be a bit more intelligent sometimes.

Perhaps the think tank believe that picking and choosing when to bazball will introduce doubt into the players and it's better to keep the pedal to the metal all the time.

I think you’re absolutely right — the mantra has been attack at all times.
But the great Test sides have always known both when to attack, but also when to grind out ugly runs, dry up the runs when bowling etc.
England are too unidimensional—great when it comes of, but against the best sides I think it will fail more often than it succeeds.

 

[greatest]

I think you’re absolutely right — the mantra has been attack at all times.
But the great Test sides have always known both when to attack, but also when to grind out ugly runs, dry up the runs when bowling etc.
England are too unidimensional—great when it comes of, but against the best sides I think it will fail more often than it succeeds.

Bazball would work more often because besides Australia and India the rest of the teams are very average. But yes, England have to play proper cricket when they encounter good teams and testing conditions like in India.

 

[Mamoon]

Yes @Mamoon this is Stokes’ fault that Root is playing like an idiot.

A veteran of the game has been ‘pressured’ into playing reverse scoops and running down the pitch. I wonder if they threatened him with violence or whether it was just that they’d drop their most successful player if he didn’t play a stupid shot every over?

Poor Root. I hope Stokes is fired so he can stop being afraid and not play shots like these.

So you want to give Stokes credit for those who are performing well in the Bazball era but don’t want him to take responsibility for their failures? How does that work?

The fact is that Root is struggling because he has been asked to play outside his comfort-zone.

He is a classical Test batsman who operates beautifully in the 50-55 SR region but for some reason, his idiot captain and coach, who both weren’t and aren’t good enough to average 40 in Test cricket to save their lives, want their batting lynchpin to bat like a crackhead.

Root is a better Test batsman than Stokes and McCullum put together and they have no business teaching him how to approach his batting.

India have owned Stokes and McCullum with a heavily depleted side and it is beautiful to witness. I am getting a real kick out of it and it is a triumph not just for Indian cricket but also for Test cricket.

Test cricket has been played a certain way for 150+ years and two morons have collaborated thinking that they are too good for this format and want to reinvent how it is played? My backside.

They deserve this humiliation for their arrogance.

 

[Buffet]

Bazball would work more often because besides Australia and India the rest of the teams are very average. But yes, England have to play proper cricket when they encounter good teams and testing conditions like in India.

Good bowling yes, but it's not even testing conditions so far in India for Eng.

Eng has gotten pretty good surfaces to bat. No rank turners or hugely uneven bounce.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I think you’re absolutely right — the mantra has been attack at all times.
But the great Test sides have always known both when to attack, but also when to grind out ugly runs, dry up the runs when bowling etc.
England are too unidimensional—great when it comes of, but against the best sides I think it will fail more often than it succeeds.

England players were going through some psychological stuff at the end kf roots tenure. They lost a record number of games and just couldn't score runs.

To remove the mental clutter they now just attack, it probably works for Crawley, Bairstow and Pope who often suffered from analysis paralysis. They come have a hit and dont need to think about what to leave or what to play. They have been told the coach and captain wont criticise them and will shield them from the media.

It works the vast majority of the time....but the more versatile and mentally tough players like Stokes, Root and perhaps even Foakes need to be told to play with more sense sometimes.

 

[greatest]

Good bowling yes, but it's not even testing conditions so far in India for Eng.

Eng has gotten pretty good surfaces to bat. No rank turners or hugely uneven bounce.

Yes, pitches have been better as compared to to the last series in India. As I mentioned Bazball will work consistently against average teams but not against good ones. England is paying the price for being too dependent on it.

 

[kumjsr]

England players were going through some psychological stuff at the end kf roots tenure. They lost a record number of games and just couldn't score runs.

To remove the mental clutter they now just attack, it probably works for Crawley, Bairstow and Pope who often suffered from analysis paralysis. They come have a hit and dont need to think about what to leave or what to play. They have been told the coach and captain wont criticise them and will shield them from the media.

It works the vast majority of the time....but the more versatile and mentally tough players like Stokes, Root and perhaps even Foakes need to be told to play with more sense sometimes.

Batsmen who have performed for England in this series - Crawley, Pope and Duckett, all of them haven't played many aerial shots. They have played drives and sweeps a lot, but not many big shots.

Pope - 1 six, Crawley - 4 sixes, Duckett - 2 sixes.

Rest others are getting out playing big shots.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Bazball sort of works against new ball. But once the ball gets older even on flat decks becomes an increasingly risky proposition. Had shami played he would have wreaked havoc against this approach.

Having said that if you compare both teams about who played more irresponsible shots India will trump England. India played more stupid shots. Apart from Anderson's wickets and Wood's few wickets most of them were not wicket taking deliveries. India just gifted wickets on a platter. Especially first innings of first test. India could have posted 600 plus easily.

 

[Forum363]

So you want to give Stokes credit for those who are performing well in the Bazball era but don’t want him to take responsibility for their failures? How does that work?

The fact is that Root is struggling because he has been asked to play outside his comfort-zone.

He is a classical Test batsman who operates beautifully in the 50-55 SR region but for some reason, his idiot captain and coach, who both weren’t and aren’t good enough to average 40 in Test cricket to save their lives, want their batting lynchpin to bat like a crackhead.

Root is a better Test batsman than Stokes and McCullum put together and they have no business teaching him how to approach his batting.

India have owned Stokes and McCullum with a heavily depleted side and it is beautiful to witness. I am getting a real kick out of it and it is a triumph not just for Indian cricket but also for Test cricket.

Test cricket has been played a certain way for 150+ years and two morons have collaborated thinking that they are too good for this format and want to reinvent how it is played? My backside.

They deserve this humiliation for their arrogance.

You are blaming Root's rubbish batting completely on Stokes and Bazball? What do you mean he has been asked to play outside his comfort zone exactly? Are you saying he's specifically been instructed by Stokes / Baz to increase his strike rate? Or play stupid shots? Or are you saying the team playing aggressively is making him take risks. At least be clear in your criticism.

Stokes gets credit for Pope because he specifically selected him, put him to 3 and backed him as a player and VC. Even years ago, he publicly backed Pope only for Root to drop him.

Similarly he has helped young players like Crawley and Duckett play to their strengths.

Now Root on the other hand is a successful Test match batsman with 130+ tests who is a former captain. Stokes personally asked his blessing multiple times before taking on the captaincy. You are suggesting, Stokes then sat down with one of the top 3 batsmen in the world and said "I want you to play more aggressively". And as a result of this Root has gone downhill. How excactly did he manage to achieve this. Was it through an ultimatum or was it manipulation?

I am very curious how a junior captain managed to convince someone of Root's calibre to completely change his game so quickly?

 

[James]

Victories against the second tier Test sides simply does not cut it.

England weren’t even beating the supposed second tier sides before McCullum came in though.

Lost home and away series to New Zealand, lost two consecutive away series to West Indies with Root’s final Test as captain in Grenada being an absolute horrorshow — possibly the lowest point in English Test cricket since Nasser Hussain’s tears in 1999, when England lost at home (also to New Zealand) & dropped below Zimbabwe to the bottom of the world rankings.

Something needed to change.

Despite the flaws with this newer approach and some of the mid-lower side bashing that’s gone on, (and will probably continue this English summer), it’s still an improvement in terms of results. The win rate across 20(?) Tests is very high.

 

[James]

You are blaming Root's rubbish batting completely on Stokes and Bazball? What do you mean he has been asked to play outside his comfort zone exactly? Are you saying he's specifically been instructed by Stokes / Baz to increase his strike rate? Or play stupid shots? Or are you saying the team playing aggressively is making him take risks. At least be clear in your criticism.

Stokes gets credit for Pope because he specifically selected him, put him to 3 and backed him as a player and VC. Even years ago, he publicly backed Pope only for Root to drop him.

Similarly he has helped young players like Crawley and Duckett play to their strengths.

Now Root on the other hand is a successful Test match batsman with 130+ tests who is a former captain. Stokes personally asked his blessing multiple times before taking on the captaincy. You are suggesting, Stokes then sat down with one of the top 3 batsmen in the world and said "I want you to play more aggressively". And as a result of this Root has gone downhill. How excactly did he manage to achieve this. Was it through an ultimatum or was it manipulation?

I am very curious how a junior captain managed to convince someone of Root's calibre to completely change his game so quickly?

Excellent post, well said.

Joe is a former captain and quite possibly our greatest ever batsman, he doesn’t need a “manager” and he needs to take personal ownership of his form.

 

[jnaveen1980]

SO far in this series

India

Strike rate 55.45
CEnturies 5
Fifties 5
Fours 199
Sixes 37

England

Strike rate 66.16
Centuries 2
Fifties 3
Fours 188
Sixes 16

Seemingly apart from two massive innings England relied largely on fast cameos.

 

[Buffet]

SO far in this series


INdia

Strike rate 55.45
CEnturies 5
Fifties 5
Fours 199
Sixes 37

England

Strike rate 66.16
Centuries 2
Fifties 3
Fours 188
Sixes 16

Seemingly apart from two massive innings England relied largely on fast cameos.

Yah, given India has more tons, half tons, fours, and sixes. Eng is missing big knocks and producing cameos. That's the main reason they are not able to capitalize.

Eng needs big scores and not just cameos.

 

[Mamoon]

You are blaming Root's rubbish batting completely on Stokes and Bazball? What do you mean he has been asked to play outside his comfort zone exactly? Are you saying he's specifically been instructed by Stokes / Baz to increase his strike rate? Or play stupid shots? Or are you saying the team playing aggressively is making him take risks. At least be clear in your criticism.

Stokes gets credit for Pope because he specifically selected him, put him to 3 and backed him as a player and VC. Even years ago, he publicly backed Pope only for Root to drop him.

Similarly he has helped young players like Crawley and Duckett play to their strengths.

Now Root on the other hand is a successful Test match batsman with 130+ tests who is a former captain. Stokes personally asked his blessing multiple times before taking on the captaincy. You are suggesting, Stokes then sat down with one of the top 3 batsmen in the world and said "I want you to play more aggressively". And as a result of this Root has gone downhill. How excactly did he manage to achieve this. Was it through an ultimatum or was it manipulation?

I am very curious how a junior captain managed to convince someone of Root's calibre to completely change his game so quickly?

Not sure what you are waffling about tbh. Root is clearly suffering because two vastly inferior Test batsmen have asked him to bat aggressively when he doesn’t need to and hence he is struggling.

 

[Ab Fan]

Root needs to bat just the way he was doing before 2022. It could be loss of form for him because form doesn't remain with you forever. But these are good batting surface and Root is capable of scoring double hundreds on these pitches when he was at his prime.

Bazball is an upgrade over what England had before but it's simply not worth the hype. Stokes is a live by and die by sword type captain and not a better all rounder than Flintoff. England are still way behind the top league as a test team is concerned.

 

[jnaveen1980]

The way i see it it has elevated average players into good players. Good player into average player. Given that England had a lot of average player pre-bazball it has worked for them. Having said that it completely hinges on the form of these players. It so happens they have 2 or 3 inform players at the top. Moment their form takes a dip there will be even more awkward moments with this approach. One of the key reason it seemingly works because of their bowlers being able to take 20 wickets with innovative field sets. Guys like Pujara at peak would bat against this attack all 5 days. Current youngsters don't have patience and lose wickets to this bowling. The day disciplinary batsmen apply themselves against this bowling attack Bazball will have a full meltdown. Kane williamson already showed once. Their bowlers make this approach look better than it is.

 

[James]

The day disciplinary batsmen apply themselves against this bowling attack Bazball will have a full meltdown.

It’s also Stokes creative captaincy and wacky field placings which keeps spawning wickets from nothing situations. Tom Hartley has got Patidar out in both innings of this game for 5 and 0 with basically two long hops. India is winning this Test but I wouldn’t be surprised to see a few more cheap dismissals for their batsmen tomorrow.

 

[ahmadharis1]

Never thought I'd see people get so personally offended by how a team plays test cricket. Like can you show me on the doll where bazball touched you lmao

 

[gibsyhesperis]

Never thought I'd see people get so personally offended by how a team plays test cricket. Like can you show me on the doll where bazball touched you lmao

It annoys me because England are a better side than Australia and should have won the series during the summer.
It annoys me because England should have been a position to win this game.
It annoys me because it is poor, average cricket.
I enjoy watching cricket but hate watching dross.


Simple really

 

[Advaith]

Hybrid system of Bazball and traditional batting may yield better result for England .. jaiswal in today's innings has shown a better version of Bazball with traditional start and once confident enough he started to play odi/T20 style ..If batsman accommodate this approach of playing traditionally in first 40 to 50 balls and then goes for Bazball they may get better results in a long run ..

 

[greatest]

It annoys me because England are a better side than Australia and should have won the series during the summer.
It annoys me because England should have been a position to win this game.
It annoys me because it is poor, average cricket.
I enjoy watching cricket but hate watching dross.


Simple really

England were more disciplined in the Ashes but now in India they have played some crazy cricket. They are just trying to show off a bit more and are paying the price.

 

[Forum363]

Not sure what you are waffling about tbh. Root is clearly suffering because two vastly inferior Test batsmen have asked him to bat aggressively when he doesn’t need to and hence he is struggling.

Okay so - your logic is Joe Root, the best batsman England has ever had, former captain, a veteran of 130 tests, in the prime of his career, has been asked to ‘bat aggressively’ by ‘two vastly inferior batsmen’ and as a result his whole game is struggling?

That is genuinely your whole problem with Bazball and Root? Just want to be very clear here.

 

[jnaveen1980]

England were more disciplined in the Ashes but now in India they have played some crazy cricket. They are just trying to show off a bit more and are paying the price.

Do you think England was the only one who played crazy cricket? People are completely ignoring how INdia played crazy cricket. THey played more crazy shots than England did.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

England have just lost the Test because of their poor display today.

 

[greatest]

Do you think England was the only one who played crazy cricket? People are completely ignoring how INdia played crazy cricket. THey played more crazy shots than England did.

England crazy shots were more crazy than India's.

 

[jnaveen1980]

England crazy shots were more crazy than India's.

If you strictly talk about getting out to loose shots against ordinary balls India definitely wins the battle. England had less such dismissals. Shreyas iyer every single time gifted his wicket.

 

[greatest]

If you strictly talk about getting out to loose shots against ordinary balls India definitely wins the battle. England had less such dismissals. Shreyas iyer every single time gifted his wicket.

England is definitely doing something wrong and India is doing something right. The difference is the batting approach of the two teams.

 

[BouncerGuy]

It was so unfortunate for Jaiswal to go out like this. I guess he can still come back tomorrow and start his inning where he left yesterday. What an inning he is playing so far. England has been taken out of this game and I don't see them winning from here.

 

[AMSS]

Some of you are ideologically ranting against ENG's approach under McCullum.

Ask yourself, esp India fans, has this ''bazball'' not forced India to recalculate what would be a safe target to set? Visiting teams often had that fear when we had Sehwag open for us.

And would you be feeling safe about an India victory if somehow India set a target of 400 and thereabouts?

An honest reflection on the above to question should tell you about the success of bazball.

Sure, we can talk about individual players arguably not prospering but if ''bazball'' is a whole-of-the-team approach then relative individual failure is a small price to pay.

 

[WengerOut]

The false bravado after the chiding they get is nauseating as well. For eg : Duckett saying that Stoksey and England wanted a crack at Indian batting yesterday ( Rajkot Day 3 ), implying that their approach was all pre-planned .. I mean, it sometimes help to accept that you had a terrible day..

 

[kumjsr]

Some of you are ideologically ranting against ENG's approach under McCullum.

Ask yourself, esp India fans, has this ''bazball'' not forced India to recalculate what would be a safe target to set? Visiting teams often had that fear when we had Sehwag open for us.

And would you be feeling safe about an India victory if somehow India set a target of 400 and thereabouts?

An honest reflection on the above to question should tell you about the success of bazball.

Sure, we can talk about individual players arguably not prospering but if ''bazball'' is a whole-of-the-team approach then relative individual failure is a small price to pay.

Recalculate safe target on basis of what? You are giving too much importance run rate and ignoring total runs altogether.

Even Sri Lanka team would have scored what England has been scoring in this series.

 

[AMSS]

The false bravado after the chiding they get is nauseating as well. For eg : Duckett saying that Stoksey and England wanted a crack at Indian batting yesterday ( Rajkot Day 3 ), implying that their approach was all pre-planned .. I mean, it sometimes help to accept that you had a terrible day..

Exactly how does it help to accept that you had a terrible day? It's nice that he can take a terrible day in his stride and still manage to get under the skin of opponents.

 

[Mamoon]

Some of you are ideologically ranting against ENG's approach under McCullum.

Ask yourself, esp India fans, has this ''bazball'' not forced India to recalculate what would be a safe target to set? Visiting teams often had that fear when we had Sehwag open for us.

And would you be feeling safe about an India victory if somehow India set a target of 400 and thereabouts?

An honest reflection on the above to question should tell you about the success of bazball.

Sure, we can talk about individual players arguably not prospering but if ''bazball'' is a whole-of-the-team approach then relative individual failure is a small price to pay.

England have absolutely no chance of chasing 400 in India no matter what “ball” they implement. Conventional cricket will always beat Bazball provided that you play it well.

 

[Mamoon]

Never thought I'd see people get so personally offended by how a team plays test cricket. Like can you show me on the doll where bazball touched you lmao

England playing circus cricket is not offensive. They have the right to play how they want to play.

What is offensive is the evangelism that has come along with it.

“We are doing this for the betterment of Test cricket”

“We are making Test cricket entertaining”

“This is how you are supposed to play Test cricket”

Absolute nonsense. No one would have a problem with Bazball or whatever ball they want to implement if they were to keep their mouths shut.

 

[Mamoon]

@Forum363

I repeat.

If you want to give Stokes’ captaincy credit for England winning plenty of Test matches in the last 1.5 years which you do, you also need to blame him for Root’s failures.

How do you win Test matches? You win Test matches with individuals playing well. So you are comfortable giving Stokes credit for individuals playing well.

Therefore, he also needs to take the blame for individuals not playing well. It works both ways but you only want to work it one way.

Stokes is equally responsible for the success of Duckett as he is for the lack of success of Root.

 

[WengerOut]

Exactly how does it help to accept that you had a terrible day? It's nice that he can take a terrible day in his stride and still manage to get under the skin of opponents.

They got under the skin of the Indians alright.. Need to chase only 500 odd to win..

 

[James]

England need to be Bazball-pragmatic here and go for the draw, but they won’t will they

 

[WengerOut]

Bit like Keegan's Newcastle of mid 90s... Can surprise opponents for a short time... After opponents start figuring them out, will hide under the mask of "entertainers focusing not just on results ". Then oblivion... After some years it will be a funny story of the past.

 

[Mockingbird]

Some of you are ideologically ranting against ENG's approach under McCullum.

Ask yourself, esp India fans, has this ''bazball'' not forced India to recalculate what would be a safe target to set? Visiting teams often had that fear when we had Sehwag open for us.

And would you be feeling safe about an India victory if somehow India set a target of 400 and thereabouts?

An honest reflection on the above to question should tell you about the success of bazball.

Sure, we can talk about individual players arguably not prospering but if ''bazball'' is a whole-of-the-team approach then relative individual failure is a small price to pay.

I would definitely think a lead of 400 to be a safe target, especially on a 4th-5th day pitch in India. The issue with overhyping Bazball is that England is forced to walk the talk all the time- there is no adaptability left in their game anymore. We all know they will go for the kill and die in the process and not aim for a respectable draw. Even circumspect players like Root are now seemingly under pressure to play idiotic shots because they have all bought in or made to buy in the plan to go boom or bust every single time.

@Forum363

I repeat.

If you want to give Stokes’ captaincy credit for England winning plenty of Test matches in the last 1.5 years which you do, you also need to blame him for Root’s failures.

How do you win Test matches? You win Test matches with individuals playing well. So you are comfortable giving Stokes credit for individuals playing well.

Therefore, he also needs to take the blame for individuals not playing well. It works both ways but you only want to work it one way.

Stokes is equally responsible for the success of Duckett as he is for the lack of success of Root.

Completely agree with this one.

 

[uppercut]

Not sure what you are waffling about tbh. Root is clearly suffering because two vastly inferior Test batsmen have asked him to bat aggressively when he doesn’t need to and hence he is struggling.

This was discussed today and Nick Knight was categorical that this is an individual decision and not something that has been forced on any player.

Also Stokes does not go full tilt bazball until he is well set. Bats like Dravid for a while before he switches gears.

But it could be a case of peer pressure for Root.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Bazball did work in this match.

Unfortunately for England its was Jaiswal and Sarfraz doing the hitting.

 

[greatest]

Bazball did work in this match.

Unfortunately for England its was Jaiswal and Sarfraz doing the hitting.

It was reverse-bazball.

 

[Mamoon]

This was discussed today and Nick Knight was categorical that this is an individual decision and not something that has been forced on any player.

Also Stokes does not go full tilt bazball until he is well set. Bats like Dravid for a while before he switches gears.

But it could be a case of peer pressure for Root.

The categorical statements from England mean nothing tbf. There is going to be a collective, facing effort to defend and justify Bazball and players are going to be criticized individually to deflect criticism from Bazball which is clearly an unsustainable way of playing Test cricket.

England will revert back to traditional Test cricket soon because it has the stood the test of time and when that happens, the narrative that Bazball is how Test cricket should be played will look dumb.

 

[Mamoon]

England walking away from Bazball wouldn’t have been a problem had they not sold lies like they are doing this to revive interest in Test cricket and this is how the format is meant to be played.

Instead, they should have stuck to the truth only. The truth of why England decided to go the Bazball route.

The answer is very simple - apart from Root and Pope, England don’t have proper Test batsmen who know where their off-stump is and can bat long.

What they have is a bunch of dynamic white ball players who can only succeed in Test cricket if you ask them to play their natural game.

Bazball was born out of necessity but somehow England were uncomfortable with accepting the truth and decided to insult people’s intelligence by driving a contrived narrative that is very easy to see through.

 

[jnaveen1980]

England walking away from Bazball wouldn’t have been a problem had they not sold lies like they are doing this to revive interest in Test cricket and this is how the format is meant to be played.

Instead, they should have stuck to the truth only. The truth of why England decided to go the Bazball route.

The answer is very simple - apart from Root and Pope, England don’t have proper Test batsmen who know where their off-stump is and can bat long.

What they have is a bunch of dynamic white ball players who can only succeed in Test cricket if you ask them to play their natural game.

Bazball was born out of necessity but somehow England were uncomfortable with accepting the truth and decided to insult people’s intelligence by driving a contrived narrative that is very easy to see through.

yes. THat is correct. Crawley was repeatedly getting out edging the ball to slips. He looked mediocre. Bairstow was inconsistent. So they loaded their side with batsmen and bowlers who could bat and one or two good bowlers. Best way to beat this is by dominating their bowling. Their bowling relies a lot on strategy, field change every ball. If you bat them out they will resort to old style and implode.

 

[Vikram1989]

Especially increased batting avg of all eng batsmen does not make sense .it's due to extreme flat pitches in eng .As Steve Waugh said ,they don't have plan b and looks hapless old eng team in opposition onslaught(just like now)

 

[uppercut]

England need to be Bazball-pragmatic here and go for the draw, but they won’t will they

Ar 18/2 with 2 of the best bazball practioners out .... and Ashwin set to be back it would be incredibly stupid if they still try to go for a win.

Secretly I wanted to see this scenario... Stokes and Baz will get trolled either way ... especially if they shut shop and still lose. They have put themselves in a very tricky position.

 

[uppercut]

28/4 Pope and Bairstow gone.... bazball now in the ICU in critical condition with the runrate at 2.4 ... ohh well

 

[gibsyhesperis]

England walking away from Bazball wouldn’t have been a problem had they not sold lies like they are doing this to revive interest in Test cricket and this is how the format is meant to be played.

Instead, they should have stuck to the truth only. The truth of why England decided to go the Bazball route.

The answer is very simple - apart from Root and Pope, England don’t have proper Test batsmen who know where their off-stump is and can bat long.

What they have is a bunch of dynamic white ball players who can only succeed in Test cricket if you ask them to play their natural game.

Bazball was born out of necessity but somehow England were uncomfortable with accepting the truth and decided to insult people’s intelligence by driving a contrived narrative that is very easy to see through.

This is exactly it — England are capable of playing two T20 innings per test match.
As you say, only Pope and Root have the techniques to play long innings (I do think Brook could also in the future)

So, it was indeed a pragmatic response to their available resources — but the “British exceptionalism“ made them make grandiose statements about saving Test cricket rather than telling the truth — “we’re a bunch of white ball specialists and it may come of one game out of three, but we’ll thump the lesser nations”
India and Australia viewed it with disdain and rightly so.

Weaker sides (and particularly their fans, many who posted on here) said “this is the way Test cricket should be played”..

Sigh

 

[MANU ROY]

This exactly why they bring bazball

 

[MANU ROY]

England walking away from Bazball wouldn’t have been a problem had they not sold lies like they are doing this to revive interest in Test cricket and this is how the format is meant to be played.

Instead, they should have stuck to the truth only. The truth of why England decided to go the Bazball route.

The answer is very simple - apart from Root and Pope, England don’t have proper Test batsmen who know where their off-stump is and can bat long.

What they have is a bunch of dynamic white ball players who can only succeed in Test cricket if you ask them to play their natural game.

Bazball was born out of necessity but somehow England were uncomfortable with accepting the truth and decided to insult people’s intelligence by driving a contrived narrative that is very easy to see through.

Finally somebody talking the right things

 

[Suleiman]

People acting as if India hasn’t been a fortress for years now and England playing without bazball would’ve made a difference lol.

They may not have even won the first test.

Bazball is not a magic pill.

 

[RexRex]

The categorical statements from England mean nothing tbf. There is going to be a collective, facing effort to defend and justify Bazball and players are going to be criticized individually to deflect criticism from Bazball which is clearly an unsustainable way of playing Test cricket.

England will revert back to traditional Test cricket soon because it has the stood the test of time and when that happens, the narrative that Bazball is how Test cricket should be played will look dumb.

I disagree. Bazball has made England competitive this series otherwise they usually get clobbered in India. The reason England find themselves in a pickle right now is that India have adopted Bazball as well. Fighting fire with fire ~ !

 

[Varun]

My take on Bazball:

England are a team who find it the hardest to produce a batsman who averages 50+ or a bowler who averages 25-.

Even after playing hundreds of tests, these stats are beyond the reach of the likes of Anderson and Root. The rest of the world has been producing the likes of Kohli/Williamson/Smith and Starc/Rabada/Bumrah in the meantime.

But for every Root or Anderson in any England team, there are some no-name Ollies and Crawleys in there - who forget 50, battle to keep their head afloat over 35.

Bazball is intended for the latter category. Because they are such flawed players, Bazball can give them a minor boost and allow them to talk a big game even when they are being smashed.

 

[Forum363]

Okay so - your logic is Joe Root, the best batsman England has ever had, former captain, a veteran of 130 tests, in the prime of his career, has been asked to ‘bat aggressively’ by ‘two vastly inferior batsmen’ and as a result his whole game is struggling?

That is genuinely your whole problem with Bazball and Root? Just want to be very clear here.

@Mamoon but you still haven’t replied to this.

You’re avoiding it by saying the captain is responsible for performance of all the batters.

I’m saying that’s absolute rubbish. He often has an impact on certain players - usually younger ones who he gives confidence to / changes their roles etc.

But he has no impact on a 130 test veteran who is the best player for his country, batting at the same position, with no necessary change of anything. Your argument specifically is that he ‘asked root to bat aggressively’. And that alone is the reason for roots form.

 

[FearlessRoar]

BazBall is just hype. India has buried this concept.

 

[Thanos]

England fan would've liked to see a draw or at least an attempt to it. Problem is they don't have patience to play long due to this overhyped approach.

 

[greatest]

BazBall is just hype. India has buried this concept.

Yes, it's finally laid to dust. We will now read about it in cricket history books.

 

[160KPH]

I’ve given up on this argument because the critics of Bazball, particularly on this forum, are arguing from a place of emotion where they won’t acknowledge the facts. Before Stokes and McCullum took over, England had won only 1 out of 17 Test matches. This was the worst streak of Tests they had in about 40 years. They were literally one of the worst teams in the entire world. After Stokes and McCullum took over they became one of the most successful Test teams.

Nothing anyone says can change this simple fact that Stokes and McCullum took England from one of the teams that lost the most to one of the teams that wins the most.

@Mamoon has called it a failure mainly because Joe Root is not stacking up 100’s. This is an incredibly weak argument for many reasons.

1) First of all, Joe Root’s average after McCullum’s take over is higher than his career average. He quite literally as good as he ever has been. Mamoon counters this by saying Joe Root should be scoring more 100s considering his class. This kind of obsession with personal milestones honestly just misses the whole point of playing the game.

2) Even if Joe Root was better before BazBall who cares, which is objectively not true, then who cares if he was even averaging the same as Donald Bradman if it resulted in them only winning 1 out of 17 matches.

Critics say that England have only won “soft” matches. First off all this is untrue. They almost won the Ashes if it were not for rain. They beat India in a legendary 4th innings chase to draw the series and they already managed to win 1 Test in India while they have one of the most inexperienced spin attacks in the entire world. They beat South Africa and New Zealand in England and then drew a series in New Zealand. But the real issue is before “BazBall” England were not even winning the “soft” matches. They only won 1 out of 17 Test matches before McCullum + Stokes changed their approach.

Also the biggest issue of the critics of Bazball is that they have made up their own definition of what the style of play is. It’s a term completely created by the media and even McCullum has said he has no clue what “Bazball” is. England just shifted towards playing the game in a manner where they prioritized a result oriented approach to the game and playing in a more free way without fearing the consequences. And it worked.

Stop comparing England to the greatest teams of all time and start comparing them to the results they got before McCullum took over.

 

[Ahmed216]

Third test in Rajkot is I think 1st real bad game Stokes has had as captain.
Any other captain wouldn't have changed much in terms of results in India.

 

[160KPH]

@Mamoon but you still haven’t replied to this.

You’re avoiding it by saying the captain is responsible for performance of all the batters.

I’m saying that’s absolute rubbish. He often has an impact on certain players - usually younger ones who he gives confidence to / changes their roles etc.

But he has no impact on a 130 test veteran who is the best player for his country, batting at the same position, with no necessary change of anything. Your argument specifically is that he ‘asked root to bat aggressively’. And that alone is the reason for roots form.

He won’t give a proper response. He does this in every discussion. He forms an incredibly strong opinion early on and then no matter what happens he will defend that opinion and ignore anything which completely destroys his argument.

For example, he early on declared Shubman Gill to be the next Kohli and one of the all time great batsmen. So far Gill has literally been a Shan Masood level batsmen in Test and even Indian posters on this forum have called for him to be dropped from the Test side but Mamoon will still never admit that he was wrong. In fact, any time Gill scores even a decent innings he will argue that this was a greater knock than any Pakistani batsmen in history even though Gill struggles to stay averaging 30.

 

[James]

I’ve given up on this argument because the critics of Bazball, particularly on this forum, are arguing from a place of emotion where they won’t acknowledge the facts. Before Stokes and McCullum took over, England had won only 1 out of 17 Test matches. This was the worst streak of Tests they had in about 40 years. They were literally one of the worst teams in the entire world. After Stokes and McCullum took over they became one of the most successful Test teams.

Nothing anyone says can change this simple fact that Stokes and McCullum took England from one of the teams that lost the most to one of the teams that wins the most.

@Mamoon has called it a failure mainly because Joe Root is not stacking up 100’s. This is an incredibly weak argument for many reasons.

1) First of all, Joe Root’s average after McCullum’s take over is higher than his career average. He quite literally as good as he ever has been. Mamoon counters this by saying Joe Root should be scoring more 100s considering his class. This kind of obsession with personal milestones honestly just misses the whole point of playing the game.

2) Even if Joe Root was better before BazBall who cares, which is objectively not true, then who cares if he was even averaging the same as Donald Bradman if it resulted in them only winning 1 out of 17 matches.

Critics say that England have only won “soft” matches. First off all this is untrue. They almost won the Ashes if it were not for rain. They beat India in a legendary 4th innings chase to draw the series and they already managed to win 1 Test in India while they have one of the most inexperienced spin attacks in the entire world. They beat South Africa and New Zealand in England and then drew a series in New Zealand. But the real issue is before “BazBall” England were not even winning the “soft” matches. They only won 1 out of 17 Test matches before McCullum + Stokes changed their approach.

Also the biggest issue of the critics of Bazball is that they have made up their own definition of what the style of play is. It’s a term completely created by the media and even McCullum has said he has no clue what “Bazball” is. England just shifted towards playing the game in a manner where they prioritized a result oriented approach to the game and playing in a more free way without fearing the consequences. And it worked.

Stop comparing England to the greatest teams of all time and start comparing them to the results they got before McCullum took over.

Nothing much to add to this, other than it being an excellent, balanced, and rational post.

 

[Ahmed216]

Yes, it's finally laid to dust. We will now read about it in cricket history books.

I expect Bazball to emerge stronger after this series

 

[MANU ROY]

I expect Bazball to emerge stronger after this series

Which series England play after this series

 

[160KPH]

Third test in Rajkot is I think 1st real bad game Stokes has had as captain.
Any other captain wouldn't have changed much in terms of results in India.

Yeah the biggest issue England have is that they have a very weak spin attack and on top of that they are the most inexperienced spin attack in the world.

They’ve already punched above their weight and managed to win a Test match in India. England’s batting, aside from this current innings, has been better than it’s been in India in a long long time.

And also the series is about to be 2-1 with 2 Test matches remaining. I wouldn’t dance on England’s grave just yet, there’s a real possibility some of the batsmen find form at the same time instead of innings being carried by one single batsmen - that would change the dynamic entirely.

 

[gibsyhesperis]

I’ve given up on this argument because the critics of Bazball, particularly on this forum, are arguing from a place of emotion where they won’t acknowledge the facts. Before Stokes and McCullum took over, England had won only 1 out of 17 Test matches. This was the worst streak of Tests they had in about 40 years. They were literally one of the worst teams in the entire world. After Stokes and McCullum took over they became one of the most successful Test teams.

Nothing anyone says can change this simple fact that Stokes and McCullum took England from one of the teams that lost the most to one of the teams that wins the most.

@Mamoon has called it a failure mainly because Joe Root is not stacking up 100’s. This is an incredibly weak argument for many reasons.

1) First of all, Joe Root’s average after McCullum’s take over is higher than his career average. He quite literally as good as he ever has been. Mamoon counters this by saying Joe Root should be scoring more 100s considering his class. This kind of obsession with personal milestones honestly just misses the whole point of playing the game.

2) Even if Joe Root was better before BazBall who cares, which is objectively not true, then who cares if he was even averaging the same as Donald Bradman if it resulted in them only winning 1 out of 17 matches.

Critics say that England have only won “soft” matches. First off all this is untrue. They almost won the Ashes if it were not for rain. They beat India in a legendary 4th innings chase to draw the series and they already managed to win 1 Test in India while they have one of the most inexperienced spin attacks in the entire world. They beat South Africa and New Zealand in England and then drew a series in New Zealand. But the real issue is before “BazBall” England were not even winning the “soft” matches. They only won 1 out of 17 Test matches before McCullum + Stokes changed their approach.

Also the biggest issue of the critics of Bazball is that they have made up their own definition of what the style of play is. It’s a term completely created by the media and even McCullum has said he has no clue what “Bazball” is. England just shifted towards playing the game in a manner where they prioritized a result oriented approach to the game and playing in a more free way without fearing the consequences. And it worked.

Stop comparing England to the greatest teams of all time and start comparing them to the results they got before McCullum took over.

They have stacked up victories against lesser nations.
The true test for English fans is performing against Australia and India.
Winning series against these two is the objective — English cricket has a lot of money, a decent schoolboy infrastructure and a futures pathway that leads to first class representative cricket.

Hammering Pakistan, SL etc is not good enough.
The period under Root was woeful — that does not justify the shambles currently going on.

 

[Statpadder Inc]

My take on Bazball:

England are a team who find it the hardest to produce a batsman who averages 50+ or a bowler who averages 25-.

Even after playing hundreds of tests, these stats are beyond the reach of the likes of Anderson and Root. The rest of the world has been producing the likes of Kohli/Williamson/Smith and Starc/Rabada/Bumrah in the meantime.

But for every Root or Anderson in any England team, there are some no-name Ollies and Crawleys in there - who forget 50, battle to keep their head afloat over 35.

Bazball is intended for the latter category. Because they are such flawed players, Bazball can give them a minor boost and allow them to talk a big game even when they are being smashed.

True, its impressive how statistically unimpressive english players are.

Even their legends don't stack up

 

[160KPH]

They have stacked up victories against lesser nations.
The true test for English fans is performing against Australia and India.
Winning series against these two is the objective — English cricket has a lot of money, a decent schoolboy infrastructure and a futures pathway that leads to first class representative cricket.

Hammering Pakistan, SL etc is not good enough.
The period under Root was woeful — that does not justify the shambles currently going on.

The simple fact is that they massively improved from the results they were getting before.

Also their performances against Australia and India have been way better than they were before.

They so far under McCullum have played 1 Test match against India in England. They pulled off one of the most legendary chases of all time in the 4th innings to win the match. Then they played an Ashes series against Australia in England which they drew and would have won if it were not for rain.

So under McCullum they are
1-0 against India in England
2-2 against Australia in England (Australia got saved by the rain)
1-2 against India in India

How in any way are these performances shambles? Especially when put into the context that this was a team that won 1 out of 17 matches before McCullum took over?

 

[Ahmed216]

They have stacked up victories against lesser nations.
The true test for English fans is performing against Australia and India.
Winning series against these two is the objective — English cricket has a lot of money, a decent schoolboy infrastructure and a futures pathway that leads to first class representative cricket.

Hammering Pakistan, SL etc is not good enough.
The period under Root was woeful — that does not justify the shambles currently going on.

England Under stokes have won 2 out of 4 tests against India with 3 being played in India. They would have won the Ashes too had it not rained for last 2 days in 4th test.
I don't know how many times this needs to be repeated