Post Mortem: I want answers for the New Zealand tour!

[Junaids]

1. Who failed to schedule enough warm-up time in New Zealand? What are the consequences for him?

2. Who scheduled the Tests v West Indies after the ODIs, and in the time when the team should have been in New Zealand? What are the consequences for him?

3. Who accepted an itinerary for Australia where the only warm-up match is in a Monsoon region in the rainy season?

4. Was it Azhar Ali or Mickey Arthur who sanctioned the crazy run chase after Tea at Hamilton?

5. Why has Inzamam sent the exact same squad to Australia which has just lost 2-0 to New Zealand?

 

[Aman]

Epic choke which started with Younis coming to the crease.

 

[Taaya]

Younis Khan is looking real ugly on these pitches. Shafiq has really disappointed though. He is supposed to be a senior player now. Disheartening series for Pakistan.

All the gloss of the 2-2 draw in England is now gone.

 

[Statsman]

Valid questions.

When does the Aussie series start?

 

[Aman]

Valid questions.

When does the Aussie series start?

That series could get real ugly.

 

[MRSN]

Valid questions.

When does the Aussie series start?

dec 15th.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

What post mortem

Who the hell chases 370 and especially 200 odd in 30 overs on a 5th day pitch in NZ.

Who even decides to go for it?

I can understand emotional posters thinking about it... .but why in the hell would the team management not tell players to bat safely to a draw.

Terrible approach.

This is why I give up on Pakistan team often.

It's just painful to see totally inept planning.

 

[Silverlion]

Change the home base from uae to uk and better things will happen.

 

[Statsman]

dec 15th.

Oh. Not enough time I guess. Poor scheduling. Still the batsmen got a good opportunity to get acclimatized against good bowlers in somewhat similar conditions. Only difference is - Starc and Hazlewood are different beast alltogether.

 

[Belawal2014]

Those that were grilling Sami and Azhar please post a comment or two please..

 

[Statsman]

Change the home base from uae to uk and better things will happen.

You'll lose more. SA, Australia, England, NZ will beat you in your "home tests" easily. That leaves only WI, SL and Bangladesh. Even first 2 can be more competent in UK if the ball is doing things. We any way don't have many test teams.

 

[leatherface58]

But posters wanted a brave approach....

 

[MMHS]

Change the home base from uae to uk and better things will happen.

Partially, but unless Domestic FC cricket improves, nothing will change. The top 10 batsmen & bowlers list in this year QA season actually gives the clue & that's the case almost every season.

 

[Xoib]

That series could get real ugly.

most away series are ugly remember Nzl in India.

 

[kingusama92]

3. Who accepted an itinerary for Australia where the only warm-up match is in a Monsoon region in the rainy season?

Won't be an issue. All three days are supposed to be sunny.

 

[Junaids]

Won't be an issue. All three days are supposed to be sunny.

I hope not. It's a Day/Night match!

 

[Varun]

I recall us chasing a similar target (384 vs England featuring Swann, Flintoff, Anderson, etc.) back in Chennai in 2008.

But that was thanks to Sehwag giving it a full-on assault at the top of the innings. Though Pakistan didn't lose any wickets, they didn't have a similar burst.

 

[Junaids]

You'll lose more. SA, Australia, England, NZ will beat you in your "home tests" easily. That leaves only WI, SL and Bangladesh. Even first 2 can be more competent in UK if the ball is doing things. We any way don't have many test teams.

I have argued for the following "home" venues:

V Australia and New Zealand: UAE
V England: West Indies (TV revenue reasons - English prime time TV)
V Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe, Bangladesh: secondary venues in South Africa (E London, P Elizabeth, Benoni)
V West Indies, India: England

 

[Junaids]

I recall us chasing a similar target (384 vs England featuring Swann, Flintoff, Anderson, etc.) back in Chennai in 2008.

But that was thanks to Sehwag giving it a full-on assault at the top of the innings. Though Pakistan didn't lose any wickets, they didn't have a similar burst.

The key difference is that you only needed 256 of them on the final day.

256 in a day is do-able and has been done quite a few times.

369 on the final day has never been done, ever.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

I have argued for the following "home" venues:

V Australia and New Zealand: UAE
V England: West Indies (TV revenue reasons - English prime time TV)
V Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe, Bangladesh: secondary venues in South Africa (E London, P Elizabeth, Benoni)
V West Indies, India: England

They really aren't home if they are on every continent.

 

[Junaids]

They really aren't home if they are on every continent.

The idea is that playing teams like Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe in South Africa prepares your batsmen and bowlers for bouncy conditions against weaker opposition.

So, for example, before playing 3 Tests v South Africa in South Africa play 3 against Sri Lanka there.

And before 3 Tests in Australia v Australia, play 3 Tests in South Africa v Bangladesh or Zimbabwe.

 

[Statsman]

I have argued for the following "home" venues:

V Australia and New Zealand: UAE
V England: West Indies (TV revenue reasons - English prime time TV)
V Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe, Bangladesh: secondary venues in South Africa (E London, P Elizabeth, Benoni)
V West Indies, India: England

And play SA nowhere? Makes sense.

On a serious note, how do you justify this logistically? Where does Pakistan practice the whole year? How do they convince these countries to schedule Pakistan's home series as per PCB's choice? (UAE grounds are free almost all year) How do you go on negotiating contracts with each board? Is this a financially sound model? Will SA and WI bring crowds?

 

[Junaids]

And play SA nowhere? Makes sense.

On a serious note, how do you justify this logistically? Where does Pakistan practice the whole year? How do they convince these countries to schedule Pakistan's home series as per PCB's choice? (UAE grounds are free almost all year) How do you go on negotiating contracts with each board? Is this a financially sound model? Will SA and WI bring crowds?

Play SA in UAE.

None of your points apply. There is no base. They only spend a few weeks in the UAE each year.

 

[GenericBrand]

People got over-confident around here, just because of NZ's poor record against Pak many posters thought this series was going to be a write-off in favour of Pak and now said posters are rattled because they didn't expect NZ to win 1-0 let alone 2-0

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Play SA in UAE.

None of your points apply. There is no base. They only spend a few weeks in the UAE each year.

And you think every Cricket Board would love to schedule Pakistan's matches in their country?

 

[Junaids]

And you think every Cricket Board would love to schedule Pakistan's matches in their country?

Consider the South Africa option.

East London and Benoni are tiny, cheap grounds. SuperSport have the TV infrastructure.

It would be much cheaper for the PCB than hosting in the UAE and the local board would earn some money and so would the grounds and local economies.

England only failed in 2010 because the ECB made the grounds bid a fortune for hosting rights as if England was playing.

 

[Statsman]

Play SA in UAE.

None of your points apply. There is no base. They only spend a few weeks in the UAE each year.

How do they convince these countries to schedule Pakistan's home series as per PCB's choice? (UAE grounds are free almost all year)

How do you go on negotiating contracts with each board?

Is this a financially sound model?

Will SA and WI bring crowds?

Wonder how any of these points don't apply. Any way...off to a call..

 

[nailbiter]

They should look beyond Shafiq. He has had so many ducks recently and always falls so cheaply when needed. He only scores when the there is a partner with him who carries him through


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[msb314]

1. Who failed to schedule enough warm-up time in New Zealand? What are the consequences for him?

2. Who scheduled the Tests v West Indies after the ODIs, and in the time when the team should have been in New Zealand? What are the consequences for him?

3. Who accepted an itinerary for Australia where the only warm-up match is in a Monsoon region in the rainy season?

4. Was it Azhar Ali or Mickey Arthur who sanctioned the crazy run chase after Tea at Hamilton?

5. Why has Inzamam sent the exact same squad to Australia which has just lost 2-0 to New Zealand?

There are great questions but unfortunately we will never know the answer to them.

I would also add:

6) Why did Azhar and Sami bat at a RR of 1.8 during the first 50 overs?

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

There are great questions but unfortunately we will never know the answer to them.

I would also add:

6) Why did Azhar and Sami bat at a RR of 1.8 during the first 50 overs?

I seriously want someone to explain me THIS REASONING!!

anyone ??

 

[Dr_Bassim]

There are great questions but unfortunately we will never know the answer to them.

I would also add:

6) Why did Azhar and Sami bat at a RR of 1.8 during the first 50 overs?

The two answers are:

1. They can only bat at 30-35 SR without taking risk and that's their natural game.

2. If they had tried batting faster, they would have gone to the hut faster, leaving Pakistan staring at defeat after lunch instead of after tea.

They did their job, it was the suicidal intent shown from 181-2 going for a non-existent target in last session that completely decimated Pakistan.

 

[msb314]

I seriously want someone to explain me THIS REASONING!!

anyone ??

This is the million dollar question bro!

I seriously hope that Mickey and Azhar were not planning for a T20 style chase of 170 in the last 20 overs with YK, Rizwan and Shafiq to bat.

Extremely poor planning...

 

[samplepiece]

We have heard about pitch being prepared to suit the home team but never heard about home venues being changed across continents to help the "home" team.

 

[msb314]

The two answers are:

1. They can only bat at 30-35 SR without taking risk and that's their natural game.

2. If they had tried batting faster, they would have gone to the hut faster, leaving Pakistan staring at defeat after lunch instead of after tea.

They did their job, it was the suicidal intent shown from 181-2 going for a non-existent target in last session that completely decimated Pakistan.

If Azhar and Sami are incapable of batting at a SR of 50-60 in Tests - then I am sorry but they are not international caliber openers.

It was a steep chase but not impossible by any means. Should have scored 30-40 more runs after the first session.

 

[Junaids]

There are great questions but unfortunately we will never know the answer to them.

I would also add:

6) Why did Azhar and Sami bat at a RR of 1.8 during the first 50 overs?

Because that is their job, and all that they can do.

And as soon as they tried to play an alien game, they got out.

Who cares about scoring rate? You could have scored 1.8 per over all day, finished at 180-3 and still be Number 2 in the rankings instead of Number 4.

 

[Junaids]

If Azhar and Sami are incapable of batting at a SR of 50-60 in Tests - then I am sorry but they are not international caliber openers.

It was a steep chase but not impossible by any means. Should have scored 30-40 more runs after the first session.

What about Geoff Boycott, Alastair Cook, Desmond Haynes and Sunil Gavaskar?

Were they not international calibre openers either?

 

[JaDed]

Hopefully someday the opposition will get credit for winning against PCT.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Because that is their job, and all that they can do.

And as soon as they tried to play an alien game, they got out.

Who cares about scoring rate? You could have scored 1.8 per over all day, finished at 180-3 and still be Number 2 in the rankings instead of Number 4.

I think some posters are upset, because they genuinely believed that chasing vs New Zealand attack on Hamilton pitch is equivalent to chasing in Asia or UAE.

So they feel, that we could have done this in style, because we have done this in UAE or Sri Lanka before.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

The two answers are:

1. They can only bat at 30-35 SR without taking risk and that's their natural game.

2. If they had tried batting faster, they would have gone to the hut faster, leaving Pakistan staring at defeat after lunch instead of after tea.

They did their job, it was the suicidal intent shown from 181-2 going for a non-existent target in last session that completely decimated Pakistan.

So the defense to one of the core reasons for a bad chase will simply be glossed over by excusing out as mere incapabilty.

If such was the case then Azhar's expansive drive and Sami's ugly slog (if you can call it that) was even more questionable.

Either they should've gone from the get go or shouldn't have gone at all!! This neither here nor there strategy cost us the game.

It's as simple as that

 

[Snatch]

1. Who failed to schedule enough warm-up time in New Zealand? What are the consequences for him?

2. Who scheduled the Tests v West Indies after the ODIs, and in the time when the team should have been in New Zealand? What are the consequences for him?

3. Who accepted an itinerary for Australia where the only warm-up match is in a Monsoon region in the rainy season?

4. Was it Azhar Ali or Mickey Arthur who sanctioned the crazy run chase after Tea at Hamilton?

5. Why has Inzamam sent the exact same squad to Australia which has just lost 2-0 to New Zealand?

The answer to the first 3 questions is that it's pretty much a reality of international cricket for all sides these days.

Some sides don't even have the luxury of a warm-up games scheduled, or they do, but have half the players coming late from the IPL, like tours to England around that time.

Pakistan were unlucky the warm-up was rained-off, but at least they had one scheduled. It's not the 1990s when teams had 2-3 proper warm-ups games on tours.

Nobody could have foreseen they'd have ALL 3 days washed out.

 

[Abdullah719]

If Azhar and Sami are incapable of batting at a SR of 50-60 in Tests - then I am sorry but they are not international caliber openers.

It was a steep chase but not impossible by any means. Should have scored 30-40 more runs after the first session.

Did you watch the innings?

 

[Abdullah719]

Hopefully someday the opposition will get credit for winning against PCT.

181/2 to 230 all out.

NZ did well but 8-49 is just...

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

I have to say I've never seen a more confused approach to a chase than the one I just saw, even the Edgbaston collapse was much saner than the one we just saw - at least in that game we know from the very beginning that we were to draw !!

Over here it was as if nobody knew what we wanted and it wasn't until tea that actually we thought '....wait a second, I guess the chase is still on....'

The fact that we tried to gun down 200 in the last 30 odd overs is epitome of why we are so mentally fragile whenever it comes to planning of chases.

Going for the chase or not should be decided before you step into the field and once you reach a logical point based on how you batted previous; the team makes a decision.

Azhar and Sami batted at 1.5-1.8 for nearly two session. At this point THE CHASE SHOULD HAVE BEEN CALLED OFF !!

I can't believe Arthur let this horrid blunder happen. Somebody needs to he held accountable for this mess

 

[Junaids]

The answer to the first 3 questions is that it's pretty much a reality of international cricket for all sides these days.

Some sides don't even have the luxury of a warm-up games scheduled, or they do, but have half the players coming late from the IPL, like tours to England around that time.

Pakistan were unlucky the warm-up was rained-off, but at least they had one scheduled. It's not the 1990s when teams had 2-3 proper warm-ups games on tours.

Nobody could have foreseen they'd have ALL 3 days washed out.

It was a choice.

The Tests v West Indies could have preceded the ODI and T20 matches and there could have been two extra weeks for the Test players in NZ.

And there was always a high likelihood of a washout at Nelson before the start of summer on a ground with primitive drainage.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

What post mortem

Who the hell chases 370 and especially 200 odd in 30 overs on a 5th day pitch in NZ.

Who even decides to go for it?

I can understand emotional posters thinking about it... .but why in the hell would the team management not tell players to bat safely to a draw.

Terrible approach.

This is why I give up on Pakistan team often.

It's just painful to see totally inept planning.

They should have chased.

The ridiculous thing is the way they did it by tuk-tuking for 66% of the chase and therefore putting so much pressure in the end. If they had batted normally early on, they would have had a shot.

 

[JaDed]

181/2 to 230 all out.

NZ did well but 8-49 is just...

What about first test?Even when Kiwis drew in UAE they weren't given credit by most posters.Not sure but this seems to be their first series win against Pak in 31 years surely that needs to be acknowledged.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

They should have chased.

The ridiculous thing is the way they did it by tuk-tuking for 66% of the chase and therefore putting so much pressure in the end. If they had batted normally early on, they would have had a shot.

Maybe on dead Sharjah or Galle pitch against Sri Lanka attack.

Not on a pitch that can take 6 wickets with new ball in space of 20 runs.

More experienced posters have already commented on it.

I know you believe that if 11 Afridis were in the team, Pakistan would have chased it. I know for sure, with 11 Afridis Pakistan would have been 150 all out in one session.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

So the defense to one of the core reasons for a bad chase will simply be glossed over by excusing out as mere incapabilty.

If such was the case then Azhar's expansive drive and Sami's ugly slog (if you can call it that) was even more questionable.

Either they should've gone from the get go or shouldn't have gone at all!! This neither here nor there strategy cost us the game.

It's as simple as that

Exact summary. I would rather they chased it, but if not, they needed to just quit after tea, not this mad approach they took.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

Maybe on dead Sharjah or Galle pitch against Sri Lanka attack.

Not on a pitch that can take 6 wickets with new ball in space of 20 runs.

More experienced posters have already commented on it.

I know you believe that if 11 Afridis were in the team, Pakistan would have chased it. I know for sure, with 11 Afridis Pakistan would have been 150 all out in one session.

You misunderstand the nature of reality. It's not a 100% probability of win or 100% probability of loss. 11 Afridi's would win many times and get wiped out many times also.

The point was if they had tried to score when the going was easy, they wouldn't need to slog against the new ball at all.

Additionally, if you can survive for 50 overs, by the same token, one can score at a minimum of 2.5/3 RPO that wouldn't have required any crazy risks or difficulty at all. This ultra-defensive followed by ultra-aggressive mindset was just silly.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

[MENTION=135134]CricketAnalyst[/MENTION]

An extremely simple concept to comprehend actually, but I guess simple and Pakistan cricket doesn't really rhyme together !!

What I am more frustrated about is the fact that ok...You've batted for almost 50 odd overs at almost 1.6-1.8 runs per over !! Why go for the chase now ???

I swear to God I guess the team management was logged into Pakpassion while this was happening and was basing their strategy on the number of comments going on around here and probably on Twitter !!

It was as if no one knew what they were trying to do

 

[Dr_Bassim]

You misunderstand the nature of reality. It's not a 100% probability of win or 100% probability of loss. 11 Afridi's would win many times and get wiped out many times also.

The point was if they had tried to score when the going was easy, they wouldn't need to slog against the new ball at all.

Additionally, if you can survive for 50 overs, by the same token, one can score at a minimum of 2.5/3 RPO that wouldn't have required any crazy risks or difficulty at all. This ultra-defensive followed by ultra-aggressive mindset was just silly.

Now I understand what you are saying.

In response to that, I maintain, Azhar and Sami were not capable of playing at more than 1.8 per over for 60 overs without risk.

If they were, they would have played that way.

The moment they tried to up the ante, they succumbed.

So your point remains inconsequential.

If Pakistan were to chase this, they needed stroke makers, not grafters like Sami and Azhar. And once you send them in, and they bat like grafters for 60 overs, asking them to suddenly bat like hurricane is just plain wrong.

You can't bash anyone for it, except the batsmen who came later, and took the idea that the chase was actually on.

The worst in line being Sarfraz, who went for a non-existent run, in hope of non-existent win.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

[MENTION=135134]CricketAnalyst[/MENTION]

An extremely simple concept to comprehend actually, but I guess simple and Pakistan cricket doesn't really rhyme together !!

What I am more frustrated about is the fact that ok...You've batted for almost 50 odd overs at almost 1.6-1.8 runs per over !! Why go for the chase now ???

I swear to God I guess the team management was logged into Pakpassion while this was happening and was basing their strategy on the number of comments going on around here and probably on Twitter !!

It was as if no one knew what they were trying to do

Don't even go there.

Some people thought that chasing 200 in last 30 overs was like cracking dried nuts.

They even offered innovative ideas, like Sharjah chase and how Pakistan will be first team in history to pull out 200 runs in a session.

It was always a pipe dream.

You wouldn't be wrong, if Pakistan management actually logged into Pakpassion and took advice of such posters.

 

[Junaids]

Exact summary. I would rather they chased it, but if not, they needed to just quit after tea, not this mad approach they took.

Now this I do agree with.

But remember, the tail is the worst in the world.

So I'd have told Sami and Babar at Tea to take their time and use the session for batting practice. Not to defend, just not to take excessive risks.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

Now I understand what you are saying.

In response to that, I maintain, Azhar and Sami were not capable of playing at more than 1.8 per over for 60 overs without risk.

If they were, they would have played that way.

The moment they tried to up the ante, they succumbed.

So your point remains inconsequential.

If Pakistan were to chase this, they needed stroke makers, not grafters like Sami and Azhar. And once you send them in, and they bat like grafters for 60 overs, asking them to suddenly bat like hurricane is just plain wrong.

You can't bash anyone for it, except the batsmen who came later, and took the idea that the chase was actually on.

The worst in line being Sarfraz, who went for a non-existent run, in hope of non-existent win.

Yes, of course. I never thought they could score 200 in 30 overs. That would be very difficult for the limited overs side without field restrictions, new ball etc.

They should have a sensible plan to chase. Something that involved being say 210 or 220 at tea and then re-evaluating at that stage. Having reached this score at tea they should have forgot about the win and kept batting like that.

I also think people are under-selling Azhar and Sami a bit. They can score at reasonable rates as Azhar has shown in LOIs and they have both shown against England earlier. If the idea was them scoring at 4.5+ then obviously, no, but that wasn't needed.

My point was if at all they wanted to go for it, they should have gone at 3/3.5 throughout rather than trying for 1.5 for 60% and then 7 at the end.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Don't even go there.

Some people thought that chasing 200 in last 30 overs was like cracking dried nuts.

They even offered innovative ideas, like Sharjah chase and how Pakistan will be first team in history to pull out 200 runs in a session.

It was always a pipe dream.

You wouldn't be wrong, if Pakistan management actually logged into Pakpassion and took advice of such posters.

Around Tea Session I sarcastically wrote something along the lines of

I did the math.......

Thank You Azhar and Sami for batting so ferociously

The run rate at that point was around 6.57 or something !! And in my mind I was like 'Surely these blokes are not thinking of chasing 200 odd in the last 30 ??'

And you know what Azhar chopped on Santner, Babar Hoiked to Mid Off and Sarfaraz started running like a mad man

No wonder there was once a heading in a NZ paper calling us Panickistan during the late 80s. Cricketers, Management, Administrators all are devoid of any working brain cells. The fact that Micky let this debacle happen right in front of his eyes is just mind boggling !!

Expected much more sanity from a professional individual such as him !!

P.S. DEAR PAKISTAN MANAGEMENT, IF YOU DID LOG INTO PAKPASSION AND BASED YOUR STRATEGY ON COMMENTS FLYING AROUND HERE THEN PLEASE; FOR THE LOVE OF GOD !! RESIGN NOW !!

 

[Junaids]

You wouldn't be wrong, if Pakistan management actually logged into Pakpassion and took advice of such posters.

They actually do read PakPassion. I'm not sure that they follow its orders, but they use it as a means of having an overview of a wide range of players.

 

[Junaids]

Yes, of course. I never thought they could score 200 in 30 overs. That would be very difficult for the limited overs side without field restrictions, new ball etc.

They should have a sensible plan to chase. Something that involved being say 210 or 220 at tea and then re-evaluating at that stage. Having reached this score at tea they should have forgot about the win and kept batting like that.

I also think people are under-selling Azhar and Sami a bit. They can score at reasonable rates as Azhar has shown in LOIs and they have both shown against England earlier. If the idea was them scoring at 4.5+ then obviously, no, but that wasn't needed.

My point was if at all they wanted to go for it, they should have gone at 3/3.5 throughout rather than trying for 1.5 for 60% and then 7 at the end.

I would actually agree in the case of New Zealand or India or England, who have strong lower orders.

But Pakistan have failed to groom all-rounders at all, and so that doesn't apply.

Sami Aslam and Azhar Ali lasted half the day by taking zero risks. Your approach had a small degree of potential, but would have left 2 wickets down at Lunch and 4 at Tea, which is more than this team can cope with.

It didn't need to be a blockathon, just a Day of batting practice.

 

[uberkoen]

The strategy was deeply flawed.

What were they even thinking? The beginning of the innings looked solid enough and seemed as though we were going to go for a draw. The openers played very slowly and after batting close to 60 overs and scoring only a 130 odd you would think the team was approaching the game with the aim of drawing and then all of a sudden we push Sarfraz and Babar up the order and our outlook towards the entire game seemed to have changed.

Sarfraz got run out trying to get a second suicidal run. What was even the point of trying to go for that second run? Aslam played a completely unnecessary hack of a shot. Younis and Shafiq looked like a sitting ducks as if they've never played bowlers of this caliber before. Absolutely horrendous from the both of them this entire series.

The blame has to fall on the captain and the coach. They should define the strategy and approach towards the game. We looked confused and lost.

It's time Younis said goodbye to the game and Shafiq probably needs to go back to domestic and get his act together.

 

[adit_sh]

Did you guys lose your first series with NZ in 30 years. Thats an amazing feat in itself if it is true. good job.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Did you guys lose your first series with NZ in 30 years. Thats an amazing feat in itself if it is true. good job.

It's a sad day that this record no longer stands....The last time NZ won against us was way back in 1985 and since then we'd always had the better of them, whether it be NZ, or the Sub Continent - Heck we won against them right after the Spot Fixing Saga in 2010 in NZ with a bowling lineup consisting of Tanvir Ahmed, Umer Gul and Abdur Rehman (That was Misbah's first Series as captain).

The fact that we couldn't even replicate 50% of that with a team that drew in England recently is a debacle in itself !!!

Some heads must roll now !! It's been three straight test losses starting from the Sharjah game versus the West Indies

 

[samplepiece]

Either Pakistan should have gone for the chase from the second session onward or played for a draw. By not being decisive in the second session they ensured that New Zealand couldnt lose and to make matters worse they went for it in the last session.

 

[Junaids]

It's a sad day that this record no longer stands....The last time NZ won against us was way back in 1985 and since then we'd always had the better of them, whether it be NZ, or the Sub Continent - Heck we won against them right after the Spot Fixing Saga in 2010 in NZ with a bowling lineup consisting of Tanvir Ahmed, Umer Gul and Abdur Rehman (That was Misbah's first Series as captain).

The fact that we couldn't even replicate 50% of that with a team that drew in England recently is a debacle in itself !!!

Some heads must roll now !! It's been three straight test losses starting from the Sharjah game versus the West Indies

Australia has just ended the career of every player aged over 30.

Perhaps Pakistan could end the career of every player aged over 40?

 

[rollingstoned]

Partially, but unless Domestic FC cricket improves, nothing will change. The top 10 batsmen & bowlers list in this year QA season actually gives the clue & that's the case almost every season.

That and at home Pakistan have tended to not dominate, losses against australia, india, England and south africa unlike India and to an extent even Sri Lanka.

 

[Phantom Menace]

It's a sad day that this record no longer stands....The last time NZ won against us was way back in 1985 and since then we'd always had the better of them, whether it be NZ, or the Sub Continent - Heck we won against them right after the Spot Fixing Saga in 2010 in NZ with a bowling lineup consisting of Tanvir Ahmed, Umer Gul and Abdur Rehman (That was Misbah's first Series as captain).

The fact that we couldn't even replicate 50% of that with a team that drew in England recently is a debacle in itself !!!

Some heads must roll now !! It's been three straight test losses starting from the Sharjah game versus the West Indies

Worth noting that NZ also drew 1-1 in England in 2015, and that includes throwing away a draw in the test they lost.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Australia has just ended the career of every player aged over 30.

Perhaps Pakistan could end the career of every player aged over 40?

I am actually now all for it..... I really like Misbah (as a leader) and YK (as a solid test batsman) but this coming tour down under is absolutely beyond their capabilities and remaining reflexes.

Basically, even if the chase was hypothetical; YK minced any sort of momentum post tea as he started backing away to Henry and took evasive action against bouncers bowled at 134 kph and because he was searching for form he (as a result for the pressure at the other end) blocked quite the number of deliveries from Santner who was literally bowling floated harmless pies.

This pressure at one end made Sarfaraz take that suicidal run as the rate was climbing and he was looking to maintain and keep as much strike as possible.

If YK is clear (which he is not apparently) he would gracefully announce (effective immediately) that due to his lack of form he would like to participate in 2 full seasons of domestic competitions before turning up for Pakistani again; he is technically 39 years old - isn't he ??. This means that we can, for once, fill a batsmen who has the necessary reflexes to counter barrages of short pitch stuff that may come starting from December 15th.

Once 2 FC seasons are over, the overseas cycle would be complete and YK can return to PAK colors during any given UAE tour, complete the 10k and then retire as a champion who served Pak cricket for almost 2 decade !! A perfect phasing out of a great servant of the game who has, truth be told, done massively for Pakistan after the spot fixing saga !!

As for Misbah he should take a hint from this and make sure that he declines any offer PCB are planning on post Australia tour. I don't know whether it would be a good chance for him to actually sit out from this tour or not (I Don't Want Him Too + He's a genuinely good fellow who has again served us massively) but then again what can we do !! We don't have any replacement for Misbah (The Captain) and I guess 1 last tour where he can just be the tactician of the team would not be a bad proposition. For that there should be a batting demotion for him and Misbah shouldn't bat any higher than #7

The Lineup Should be something like this:

Sami
Azhar
Babar
Osman Salauddin
Asad
Sarfaraz
Misbah
Sohail
Yasir
Amir
Any Suitable Pace (Preferably Imran Khan for for me !!)

Rizwan (Back Up Keeper)
Sharjeel (Back Up Opener)
Asif (Back Up Pacer)

 

[nitrous]

Everyone on here is talking about how crap the batsman played, but no one is talking about the bowlers and dropped catches!

Amir is no way near his best of before (the hype on this guy should be over, and everyone should open their eyes and see that, dont give me that crap about dropped catches of his bowling), Wahab is utterly useless (less said about his batting the better) and then you have SK and IK...

 

[MenInG]

The title explains the OTT reactions we have

No one has died!

Its a game.

We played badly and we paid the price and we were not prepared for this series. One hopes that lessons have been learnt.

 

[Shafi]

1. Who failed to schedule enough warm-up time in New Zealand? What are the consequences for him?

2. Who scheduled the Tests v West Indies after the ODIs, and in the time when the team should have been in New Zealand? What are the consequences for him?

3. Who accepted an itinerary for Australia where the only warm-up match is in a Monsoon region in the rainy season?

4. Was it Azhar Ali or Mickey Arthur who sanctioned the crazy run chase after Tea at Hamilton?

5. Why has Inzamam sent the exact same squad to Australia which has just lost 2-0 to New Zealand?

You just wrecking your brain by too much frustration and thinking. PCB runs in its own way. No matter how much people thing for positive changes nothing will happen even if we loose 8-0 in Australia. Inzamam, Micky, Azhar, Misbah and Sarfraz are yes men. They always talk what people want to hear but do opposite. I am seeing this for last 10-15 years. PCB does not have any liability so nothing will be changed

 

[Shafi]

Partially, but unless Domestic FC cricket improves, nothing will change. The top 10 batsmen & bowlers list in this year QA season actually gives the clue & that's the case almost every season.

If we persist with classic oldies like SK, Misbah, YK nothing will be changed

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Pakistan did not lose because of a lack of courage. More like a lack of brains.

 

[sa]

Agreed!

First, people criticize openers don’t stick in green condition and now we are complaining about why Pakistan couldn't draw the game on the 5th day. The answer is simple… New Zealand was way better team in all departments (batting, bowling and fielding). Given that it's their home condition and everyone is a king in their home now, Pakistan gave a good fight in this test match.

Both teams were trying to win (Pakistan after tea), in the end New Zealand held their nerves better than Pakistan. I disagree with the commentators (especially Waqar) talking about Yasir not playing. This is a team sports not an individual sport. Looking at Satner bowling performances in this test and Yasir previous performances; I doubt he would've done any better in this pitches

If Pakistan keep chopping players after each test, the result will still be the same. Arthur and Misbah is trying to build a team not individuals to perform. Pakistan has performed brilliantly over the last few years, however, "getting you answers will not solve anything".

Bringing new talents and players from the bench will not solve anything; Sami, Imran, Nawaaz, Rizwan, Sharjeel are all fairly new talent and it didn't solve much dramatically. Majority of them are prolly not fully fit and we expect talent spotter to be in fit? (We all know about the Mohd.Irfan fiasco)

We are asking Imad Wasim to play because he bowled superbly in T20 against Westindies. I believe he is a fantastic player, but, do you really think that Arthur and Misbah don't think about bringing him in? They want to win and I'm sure that there is something that stopped the management that Imad is out of the test side.

In conclusion, whoever plays better cricket will win and in the last two tests it was New Zealand who played all round cricket. They came from a heavy defeat in India and I didn't see them chopping half of their team because they were white washed in India.

If Pakistan change the team again in Australia, I don’t think any new debutant will be able to cope with Aussie media and crowd.

My personal opinion is to go for the win instead of a draw in the last day. Many teams tried to draw the game and majority of the time it does not work.

Let management and selectors be the best judge and support our team.

 

[Deewana Mastana]

People should know especially Pakistanis that there is never NO answers or justfications for any actions or anything at all.

 

[sshakir411]

Azhar lost the game. Openers had to score more than they did for the chase to be successful. Going for it was the right idea. A top team should not fold the series but unfortunately 6rpo was too much to ask for our batsmen. I think Sami is suffering because he has to bat with Azhar who can barley get a move on. Azhar's captaincy was terrible too. I get a lot has been invested in him...but he clearly isn't the right man to be leading the team.

 

[Junaids]

The title explains the OTT reactions we have

No one has died!

Its a game.

We played badly and we paid the price and we were not prepared for this series. One hopes that lessons have been learnt.

I accept those points, but the whole premise of this thread is accountability.

Or rather the lack of it.

I deliberately avoided contentious and subjective issues like Asif.

But I want to know who negotiated these stupid schedules, and I want an assurance that they will be sacked.

Because this cricketing disaster was predictable.

 

[coy0607]

all your scheduling questions, there's a simple answer: $$

series are tightly schedule together most likely because of increased revenue.

for the practice matches, I imagine the visiting team has some influence on the venue and opposition and the PCB probably pick the cheapest option available

 

[coy0607]

Azhar lost the game. Openers had to score more than they did for the chase to be successful. Going for it was the right idea. A top team should not fold the series but unfortunately 6rpo was too much to ask for our batsmen. I think Sami is suffering because he has to bat with Azhar who can barley get a move on. Azhar's captaincy was terrible too. I get a lot has been invested in him...but he clearly isn't the right man to be leading the team.

yeah, you don't go from scoring 90 runs in 45 overs to 270 runs in the next 50...
this isn't book cricket

I'd say the blame lays as much with Azhar as with anyone else

 

[Junaids]

all your scheduling questions, there's a simple answer: $$

series are tightly schedule together most likely because of increased revenue.

for the practice matches, I imagine the visiting team has some influence on the venue and opposition and the PCB probably pick the cheapest option available

I get that, but the 20 and 50 over series v West Indies could and should have followed the Tests.

 

[The_Odd_One]

All very valid questions raised by OP

The major reason behind this 2-0 series loss is bad planning.

Also, this was the worst planned chase I have ever watched. Sami and Azhar were doing fine and Pakistan should have just used the day to practice for the Australian tour.

 

[Tusker]

I accept those points, but the whole premise of this thread is accountability.

Or rather the lack of it.

I deliberately avoided contentious and subjective issues like Asif.

But I want to know who negotiated these stupid schedules, and I want an assurance that they will be sacked.

Because this cricketing disaster was predictable.

Even a badass board like BCCI does not get favorable schedule ... the days of 6 month long tours with 2 dozen FC games and friendlies played by all top Test players from the home side are long-long gone.

 

[Napa]

What post mortem

Who the hell chases 370 and especially 200 odd in 30 overs on a 5th day pitch in NZ.

<b>Who even decides to go for it?</b>

I can understand emotional posters thinking about it... .but why in the hell would the team management not tell players to bat safely to a draw.

Terrible approach.

This is why I give up on Pakistan team often.

It's just painful to see totally inept planning.

Maybe as some posters think, the Pakistani management does indeed read PP with its threads like "Mickey Arthur needs to make it clear to the Pakistani batsmen that a draw is not an option"!