POTW : shaz619

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And there we have it! A work of passion for a sport that only one poster has!

Well done for such an insightful post to [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] - our POTW winner!


http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?229857-The-Professional-Wrestling-Discussion-Thread

In the early to mid 90s, Shawn Michaels was eulogised in the Wrestling Observer by one of his biggest fans in Dave Meltzer, coming out of the epic Ladder rematch at SummerSlam in 1995 with Razor Ramon he wrote "For the 3rd time in 1995, Shawn stole the show and removed any doubt that he is the best wrestler in the US; he is the Ric Flair of the 90s and the most talented American worker of all time"

What is interesting to note is that in early 1995 Shawn was never considered as a pure baby face by Vince however Pat Patterson was one of his biggest advocates and also Bruce; however they stopped raising this with Vince when he said Shawn will never be champion! this was during a time when the company was under the pump with Diesel as champion, the creative / producers all saw $$$ in Shawn but Vince just didn't accept him as a face and also wasn't sold because of his size, creative then decided we just need to try and get him out there in that top spot because the crowd are so behind him, this would lead to the WM 11 world title match with Diesel who wasn't exactly the best worker in the world; Shawn put on an epic performance, selling extremely well for Big Daddy and displaying his unique athleticism; the crowd was split down the middle and couldn't help but pop for Shawn at that point because his in-ring pedigree was hard to not like. It's also worth pointing out in the Observer once again Dave couldn't praise the match enough and especially Shawn's performance as that match wasn't expected to be any where near as good as it was.

Vince that same night would tag along with Pat and Bruce on the way home and he would be extremely livid suggesting that you know what guys! we gotta make Shawn a face and potentially even a champion! am I the only one who is seeing this :)) We tend to compare Styles and Shawn often in different ways but in terms of how Vince was sold on the two, the two stories actually merge; when Styles joined WWE he wasn't expected to be more then an upper mid carder, but when he fought for the world title in a losing effort first time much like Shawn, he put on a stellar performance; yes Roman was a much better worker then Diesel but it was still a great match and at that time Roman had so much heat and was still improving, Styles did extremely well to sell him as a world champion and in doing so that performance caught Vince's attention in a massive way, I remember posting in this thread that Styles would no doubt win the championship soon after and that would follow.

Going back to 1995, Vince also had Sid as Shawn's body guard, there were concerns about the perception of his size; to negate that and put him in a world title match / stack the odds against Diesel that was reasoning behind the move. But after Shawn's performance, the two would break up; his face turn would be in effect immediately after the WM 11 performance with Sid turning on HBK and thus would begun a main-event level push, Shawn would win the IC title from Jeff Jarett in another classic and technical masterpiece before clashing with Razor at SummerSlam; this match was very interesting, after the incredible effort at WM 10 there were complaints from regulatory bodies and sponsors that a ladder can't be used offensively and it's a bad influence on the children with it being a house hold item, Vince would then decide prior to the match that nor Shawn or Razor can use the Ladder to hit the other! I actually didn't know this until now! but having watched the match it was elevated even further because the two displayed incredible in-ring psychology and innovated further to come up with spots which the US audience had never seen before, I loved the pace and how Razor worked the leg and their were some great call back spots from the WM 10 match as well.

Towards the final 1/4 of the 1995 the year ended on a rather sour note for HBK, he was assaulted by 3 marines allegedly in a local bar; at this point Sean and Davey who were a part of the other roster half on tour for some house shows felt it would be fitting to dump his carcass in front of Chris Candido's door (the bf of sunny); Chris and sunny find him and call the ambulance, when he wakes up sunny is next to him in the hospital bed and Vince is obviously first and foremost concerned for Shawn's safety but felt he should not have put himself in that position, it was a brutal with blood coming from his eyes and ears. The extent of what happened is unknown but a marine was charged and it was believed there were others involved in the attack, WWE wouldn't press charges due to the publicity the story would get and Dave covered it stating also the heels/faces were out together it would have been a bad look that the guys were having a drink when they were meant to be feuding, that would have been covered as there were reports that Davey/Sean were attempting to save HBK from the attackers but were too intoxicated themselves. The IC title would be forfeited and HBK would make his return in November, also working the SS PPV that month.

With Shawn's recent attack he suffered, having to drop the IC title and then on his return doing an interview with JR in a first where they did a bit of a worked shoot weaving the reality of stuff which had happened outside the ring into current story-lines; the idea was to get more baby face sympathy for HBK and this led to one of the most memorable angles of the year; in a match with Owen Hart on RAW after the SS PPV, a few minutes after Hart had hit HBK with an enguzuri to the back of the head, Shawn collapses and doesn't get back up; Vince then gets off his headset (colour commentary run) then rushes to the ring in order to check on Shawn, he had never ever done this before and according to HBK he had argued that they should go to dead air at this point because if Vince and JR kept talking, it becomes clear that this is an angle and eventually Vince did go for the idea. Bruce Prichard had originally come up with the angle, they wanted to tie the attacks Shawn suffered and subsequent concussion to the kick he suffered to the head by Owen; the story would go that he had suffered another concussion despite looking spectacular in the match / healthy, it was easy to sell considering the impact of post concussion syndromes which he would already have been suffering in theory after the attacks / not 100% recovered., this was emphasised further because there was a delayed reaction to the kick HBK suffered, in the match itself after taking it he would clothesline Owen over the top rope and then fire up before collapsing suddenly; you can just imagine the shock and horror at the time :)) [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] Vince would come into the ring, they would then go to dead air; commentary silent, medics in the ring with the Oxygen, pin drop silence in the arena, camera shots on people in the crowd crying and all; real life emotion.

On the heels of the post match situation, HBK was actually submitted to a Hospital and they had to sign release papers to get him out of there; to keep the kayfabe in tact Shawn reportedly said to the doctors he was feeling groggy and described concussion like symptoms, there was so much concern at the time that fans were calling the Hospital for a status on his health and wanted to know how their hero was doing, it wasn't easy to convince Vince and all involved to take the plunge but I personally feel like this story was a big landmark for the company at the time and taking a little bit of a step into uncharted waters when it came to a more edgy / reality based narrative; this would then be seen a bit more frequently in the financially acclaimed era which would follow for the WWF.

Shawn wouldn't wrestle again in 1995, after teasing retirement he would return at the Royal Rumble to a mega pop and win it to begin his journey towards world championship status; the angle worked like a charm to get HBK over even further and after winning the RR earlier in 1995, you need to create a compelling narrative for him to win again because you've decided he is going to be the guy who will carry the company forward as the world champion / flag bearer through 96 and beyond. It was a pivotal year for HBK because while creative were behind him Vince was not sold, but in this year he showed how capable he is as a baby face and how consistent he can be as an in-ring performer day in day out against a variety of opposition.

As far as raslin "journalism" is concerned, there probably wasn't a bigger fan of HBK's then Meltzer especially in the 90s, the 5* awards and critically acclaimed matches against big dudes he shouldn't have been able to perform so well again which Metlzer enjoyed highly, from the effort with Diesel / Jarret to the epic confrontation with Razor he was acclaimed heavily in the Observer and as I had mentioned earlier; a direct quote from Dave "He is the Ric Flair of the 90s" that was massive praise [MENTION=47617]Red Devil[/MENTION]. In the end Meltzer is only one man and his subjective ratings are just an opinion; more over beyond writing he has no experience in the business, a good historian no doubt but beyond that he's just a fan, what turned the tide for him when it came to Shawn ? is the big question, because as far as his in-ring work is concerned he has gone out of his way to put him over in a big way. You read some of his tweets now and he is quick to put him down over high spot specialists and inferior performers with a vastly one dimensional resume; there is talk that he is playing some sort of heel character to entice more WON subscribers and while that is true there is a lot more to it then that.

What people tend to forget is, during the mid to late 90s; Dave's biggest insider was none other then Bret Hart himself, now I am a fan of the Montreal Screwjob coverage from Dave in the late 90s it was truly world class but it is no secret that his relationship with Bret was very personal, he has repeatedly said on record he considers Bret to be a personal friend. And don't get me wrong, Shawn was an absolutely big douche-bag in the 90s and deserves every criticism as far as his personality is concerned at the time but in the ring he was amazing, Dave in the coming years and much after that would begin to bury Shawn not just as a personality but as an in-ring performer and much of it was primarily due to his relationship with Bret. To test his theory that the modern performers today and those specifically in Japan are light years ahead of the greats of the past, I challenge anyone to contact him and ask him if Bret is an inferior performer compared to the likes of Ospreay and Kenny among others in Japan etc he will deflect no doubt but it would be much easier for him to bury Shawn when compared to those performers, the talked about match which broke his scale in Okada/Omega was raised with him myself, I said to him well Dave; Bret didn't need to hit those triple moonsaults / excessive high spots to get over and he never had to kill himself or his opponent either in doing so, Dave's response was "not everyone is Bret". As far as his ratings, thoughts on Shawn and objectivity are concerned; that's all you need to know, but like I said it's just one mans opinion. As far as pundits are concerned it's safe to say Jim Cornette who was also a part of creative in the 90s probably despises HBK as much as anybody else, he wishes he screwed HBK over Bret in 97! but I value his insight a lot more when it comes to in-ring prowess, after all he came up with the 5* scale and his resume speaks for itself.

Just some interesting wrestling history I thought I would share.
 
And there we have it! A work of passion for a sport that only one poster has!

Well done for such an insightful post to [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] - our POTW winner!


http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?229857-The-Professional-Wrestling-Discussion-Thread

Great post!

This guy is a regular WWE follower and this post shows that.

Much appreciated guys!

A little overview of Shawn Michael's (widely regarded as the greatest in-ring performer in history) 1995 which was a very pivotal year and an interesting time for the company at the time when it was struggling financially and moving away from the likes of Hogan/Warrior after the steroid scandal, had a look at this year in particular given how Dave Metlzer a journalist pro-raslin journalist highly rated his in-ring performances in that year and the early 90s, his correspondence on his career would turn sour specifically because of his relationship with Bret who was not Shawn's biggest fan to say the least
 
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Not a WWE fan but still a great read. [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

Nice one bro, btw make sure you watch Nonito Donaire v Naouya Inoue, sky posted the full fight on youtube, I just posted it in the boxing thread ;)
 
Nice one bro, btw make sure you watch Nonito Donaire v Naouya Inoue, sky posted the full fight on youtube, I just posted it in the boxing thread ;)

I haven't entered the thread in case of spoilers lol Will do later.

How long have you been a fan of WWE? Also why did WWF change to WWE?
 
I haven't entered the thread in case of spoilers lol Will do later.

How long have you been a fan of WWE? Also why did WWF change to WWE?

When you go into the thread ignore all the post go right to the last one to click on the link and see the full fight aha I do the same ignore social media then see the fight day after, find it harder to stay up like I use to but still do for really big fights

Since the 90s but I have watched so much archive footage from decades prior, it's weird because it has stuck with me from its low and high points. And it changed to WWE to avoid a legal battle with World Wildlife Fund LOL they were struggling financially in the early 90s so I understand it however they signed an agreement to use the initials in a limited capacity, with both having trademarked the acronym it made things complicated; during the boom period in the late 90s they caught the Wildlife's attention once more and in court they were successful in obtaining an injunction for Vince's company to give up their rights to the initials. Because of the history, I think that it's a shame they lost the F but the E from a business and product point of view it has worked out quiet well for them, they are worth more then they ever have in history and Vince is worth like 2 billion I think lol he is an extremely unique individual and very very inspiring, I think a movie on his life is planned
 
When you go into the thread ignore all the post go right to the last one to click on the link and see the full fight aha I do the same ignore social media then see the fight day after, find it harder to stay up like I use to but still do for really big fights

Since the 90s but I have watched so much archive footage from decades prior, it's weird because it has stuck with me from its low and high points. And it changed to WWE to avoid a legal battle with World Wildlife Fund LOL they were struggling financially in the early 90s so I understand it however they signed an agreement to use the initials in a limited capacity, with both having trademarked the acronym it made things complicated; during the boom period in the late 90s they caught the Wildlife's attention once more and in court they were successful in obtaining an injunction for Vince's company to give up their rights to the initials. Because of the history, I think that it's a shame they lost the F but the E from a business and product point of view it has worked out quiet well for them, they are worth more then they ever have in history and Vince is worth like 2 billion I think lol he is an extremely unique individual and very very inspiring, I think a movie on his life is planned

I used to be a massive fan of WWF as little kid. I loved anything to do with combat, Bruce Lee films, Jackie Chan, Tyson fights etc. The characters in the WWF were really good. Some of my favs were, Ultimate Warrior, Bushwakers, the million dollar man, Big Boss, Andre the Giant. I read the million dollar mans servant Virgil is making a comeback?

Yep, Vince is a genius turning a not well followed sport into a worldwide brand.
 
Shaz is definitely a big WWE fan and although I don't follow that industry as much, this is a great write up on the mid 90s, a time when wrestling was both in the duldrums but also had the spirit, talent and know-how to rise back up again. We often mention the NWO, Bischoff, Austin and Hogan's heel turn but people forget just how influential HBK was as a performer and as a personality.
 
Great post, Shawn was an amazing in-ring performer no doubt probably one of the best. However, wrestling comes down to individual taste and for me I would rate him outside my top 10 "Wrestlers/Entertainers".
 
I used to be a massive fan of WWF as little kid. I loved anything to do with combat, Bruce Lee films, Jackie Chan, Tyson fights etc. The characters in the WWF were really good. Some of my favs were, Ultimate Warrior, Bushwakers, the million dollar man, Big Boss, Andre the Giant. I read the million dollar mans servant Virgil is making a comeback?

Yep, Vince is a genius turning a not well followed sport into a worldwide brand.

I haven't been following Virgil aha but apparently he is not too well, and yes those characters were awesome; Besides Ric Flair who was in a league of his own, Savage was head and shoulders above the golden gen in my view in terms of his charisma and in-ring ability, plus for a guy his size very agile. Ricky Steamboat was also exceptionally gifted and a bit under rated imo
 
Shaz is definitely a big WWE fan and although I don't follow that industry as much, this is a great write up on the mid 90s, a time when wrestling was both in the duldrums but also had the spirit, talent and know-how to rise back up again. We often mention the NWO, Bischoff, Austin and Hogan's heel turn but people forget just how influential HBK was as a performer and as a personality.

You summed it up perfectly mate, it was a pivotal year and very important; as you say they had the spirit, talent and know how to rise; one thing about Vince is he always had a structure and the shear professionalism alone was enough to triumph ultimately while others self-destructed, an extremely driven and unique individual.

Very good post and very informative.
Well deserved potw, well done mate!

Nice one mate

Great post, Shawn was an amazing in-ring performer no doubt probably one of the best. However, wrestling comes down to individual taste and for me I would rate him outside my top 10 "Wrestlers/Entertainers".

Thanks, who are your top 3 out of interest besides Khali, Jinder and Tiger Singh :yk3
 
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION], I have seen different programmes based on wrestling like RAW n all. Are the protagonists or antagonists same in all of them?
 
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION], I have seen different programmes based on wrestling like RAW n all. Are the protagonists or antagonists same in all of them?

Recently Fox obtained the TV rights for Smackdown for 5 years, a deal worth a billion dollars; since then they have sort of taking things a bit more seriously in terms of keeping roster members exclusive to their respective brands
 
You summed it up perfectly mate, it was a pivotal year and very important; as you say they had the spirit, talent and know how to rise; one thing about Vince is he always had a structure and the shear professionalism alone was enough to triumph ultimately while others self-destructed, an extremely driven and unique individual.



Nice one mate



Thanks, who are your top 3 out of interest besides Khali, Jinder and Tiger Singh :yk3

Haha those three are the GOAT, no one comes close to them :)))

Apart from the three GOAT's my top 5 personal favourites will be as follows:

1. Rock
2. Brock Lesnar
3. Brett Hart
4. British bulldog
5. Macho man

Lesnar these days is ruining his legacy and has become boring.
 
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