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Predict the batting average of Pakistan's batsmen for the tour of South Africa

Hawkeye

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This one's gonna be fun. Steyn, Rabada, Philander, up against our batsmen. What do you think they'll average on the tour?

Here's my prediction how each one will fare. Not sure who will be played amongst Imam/Hafeez/Fakhar.

Imam: 18
Fakhar: 15
Hafeez: 15
Azhar: 25
Haris: 30 to 40
Babar: 30 to 40
Shafiq: ~30
Sarfraz: 15


What do y'all predict?
 
This one's gonna be fun. Steyn, Rabada, Philander, up against our batsmen. What do you think they'll average on the tour?

Here's my prediction how each one will fare. Not sure who will be played amongst Imam/Hafeez/Fakhar.

Imam: 18
Fakhar: 15
Hafeez: 15
Azhar: 25
Haris: 30 to 40
Babar: 30 to 40
Shafiq: ~30
Sarfraz: 15


What do y'all predict?

Shouldnt be that harsh on Sarfraz, he averaged 56 in Australia the last tour.
 
Shouldnt be that harsh on Sarfraz, he averaged 56 in Australia the last tour.

I certainly hope he does way better than my prediction.

But, South Africa is different. It's a combo of both swing and pace, bounce. Aus is mostly flat, with decent bounce on the Gabba/WACA.

Please note, these are not my optimistic predictions.

I tried to be realistic or some would say 'negative'.
 
i think fakhar babar and haris will do well and their avg would be above 40.
not sure about others.
 
Don't think Hafeez will be starting in these Tests.

In fact, I expect him to be out for the 3rd Test vs NZ as well.
 
Imam: :inzi2
Hafeez: :steyn
Azhar: 30s
Babar: 30s
Haris: 40s
Sarfraz: single digit
Shafiq: Believe it or not, I'm gonna say around 40.

Fakhar: depends if he opens or is in the middle order.
 
Totally depends on the pitches. If they are like the ones dished out to India, I predict max 1 batsman would average above 30 and most would average b/w 10-22.
 
Shafiq has maintained decent averages on all tours thanks to one soft hundred sandwiched between failures. 30 is realistic for him.
 
Shafiq has maintained decent averages on all tours thanks to one soft hundred sandwiched between failures. 30 is realistic for him.

i would be surprised if any one who plays all 3 Tests averages over 30 .
 
Babar 39-40
Haris 34-35
Shafiq 32-33
Azhar 25
Fakhar 27-28
Imam 15-16
Sarfraz 20

As is evident I am not to confident about our batting in SA.
 
Imam: 36
Fakhar: 29
Hafeez: 12
Azhar: 28
Haris: 37
Babar: 46
Shafiq: 33
Sarfraz: 17
 
Babar 39-40
Haris 34-35
Shafiq 32-33
Azhar 25
Fakhar 27-28
Imam 15-16
Sarfraz 20

As is evident I am not to confident about our batting in SA.

Three batsmen averaging 30+ would most likely help Pakistan avoid a whitewash, which I fear is the only realistic outcome.
 
The question should be how many Pakistani batsmen will have better batting average than Vernon Philander's bowling average in the series?

I said Philander because he is absolutely dangerous on SA wickets and also doesn't leak runs as well. Takes 5-fers for fun unless conditions are completely batting friendly.
 
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Three batsmen averaging 30+ would most likely help Pakistan avoid a whitewash, which I fear is the only realistic outcome.

Only a 1 in 5 chance of us winning the series 2-1 but I think we may be able to take one win. SA's batting is very fragile these days.
 
Imam: 15
Fakhar: 35
Hafeez: 13
Azhar: 29
Haris: 43
Babar: 47
Shafiq: 30
Sarfraz: 23

Tell me how great i am after the series.
 
Hafeez not gonna play in SA tests

Azhar bhai, Haris Sohail and Babar Azam, all gonna avg around 40. Hopefully last international series for Asud Tacneeq
 
If pitches are similar to the ones we got:

Imam: 9
Fakhar: 17 (because of 1 50)
Hafeez: 6
Azhar: 25 (but will play max deliveries per innings)
Haris: 30
Babar: 29
Shafiq: 35
Sarfraz: 27

Lower order runs will be crucial against an old ball and slightly tired bowlers. I have to agree with [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] here.

Only Kohli and ABDV managed to not embarrass themselves and I don't see an equivalent in this batting line up. The only reason batsmen 5-7 will do better is because of the older ball, you guys must hope Azhar can do a great job at blunting the new ball.
 
Imam: - 17
Fakhar: - 26
Azhar: - 31
Harris: - 21
Babar: - 37
Shafiq: - 23
Sarfaraz: - 19
 
Hafeez will average under 10.

Imam/Fakhar will be okay. I predict 40+ from both of them. Imam's been shutting people up from day 1. He's got the x factor. Fakhar thrives outside Asia!

Azhar will fail miserably. I hope to be wrong tho. 20ish.

Asad will survive, 30+.

Babar Azam 45+. Should score a ton at least.

Sarfaraz may do worse than Hafeez. That's beyond bad.

Faheem and tailenders will be okay by Pakistani tailender standards.

And yet another whitewash phainta awaits us :tahir2
 
You cant expect pakistan batsmen to do well in SA after playing two months on the horrible pitches of UAE.
 
The fact so many PPers are listing Imam and Hafeez to even tour is a worrying sign :facepalm:
 
If pitches are similar to the ones we got:

Imam: 9
Fakhar: 17 (because of 1 50)
Hafeez: 6
Azhar: 25 (but will play max deliveries per innings)
Haris: 30
Babar: 29
Shafiq: 35
Sarfraz: 27

Lower order runs will be crucial against an old ball and slightly tired bowlers. I have to agree with [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] here.

Only Kohli and ABDV managed to not embarrass themselves and I don't see an equivalent in this batting line up. The only reason batsmen 5-7 will do better is because of the older ball, you guys must hope Azhar can do a great job at blunting the new ball.

Yeah, older ball will be key.

Which is why I'm going to revise what I mentioned about Sarfraz.

He's lucky that he only gets to face the old ball.

And he may be able to score some runs at least due to that advantage.

20-30 average for Sarfraz.
 
The key is to recover from 70-4 after 30 overs when the Kookaburra ball loses its shine.

Imam 90 runs at 15.
Azhar 180 runs at 30.
Shafiq 150 runs at 25.
Haris 180 runs at 30.
Babar 300 runs at 50.

In other words, the top five batsmen will have an average output of 150-5.

So then you need:

Sarfraz 150 runs at 25.
Shadab 150 runs at 25.
Faheem 120 runs at 20.
Amir 120 runs at 20.

That lifts you to 240-9.

You can defend that!

The all-rounders are crucial!
 
The key is to recover from 70-4 after 30 overs when the Kookaburra ball loses its shine.

Imam 90 runs at 15.
Azhar 180 runs at 30.
Shafiq 150 runs at 25.
Haris 180 runs at 30.
Babar 300 runs at 50.

In other words, the top five batsmen will have an average output of 150-5.

So then you need:

Sarfraz 150 runs at 25.
Shadab 150 runs at 25.
Faheem 120 runs at 20.
Amir 120 runs at 20.

That lifts you to 240-9.

You can defend that!

The all-rounders are crucial!

Amir getting 20 runs is very optimistic.
 
Pakistan need to take fakhar zaman , a gamble that can pay off.

Fakhar
Azhar
Haris
Babar
Saad
Shafiq


Playing babar at 6 wont help pakistan in sa as our tail wont last long.
 
Amir getting 20 runs is very optimistic.
This is completely wrong.

In identical conditions on Australia 2 years ago Mohammad Amir scored 118 runs at an average of 19.66.

Whereas Misbah scored 76 runs at an average of 12.66.

Mohammad Amir can DEFINITELY average 20 with the bat from Number 9!
Pakistan need to take fakhar zaman , a gamble that can pay off.

Fakhar
Azhar
Haris
Babar
Saad
Shafiq


Playing babar at 6 wont help pakistan in sa as our tail wont last long.
I don’t mind Fakhar playing instead of Imam.

But there is ZERO justification for playing a long tail when Faheem can bat at 8 and Amir at 9.

Those two should reliably score a combined 45 runs in every innings in South African conditions!

I expect Faheem to come in at 160-6.

But I demand that he and Amir stay at the crease with the set batsman and lift them to 250 all out.
 
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This is completely wrong.

In identical conditions on Australia 2 years ago Mohammad Amir scored 118 runs at an average of 19.66.

Whereas Misbah scored 76 runs at an average of 12.66.

Mohammad Amir can DEFINITELY average 20 with the bat from Number 9!

I don’t mind Fakhar playing instead of Imam.

But there is ZERO justification for playing a long tail when Faheem can bat at 8 and Amir at 9.

Those two should reliably score a combined 45 runs in every innings in South African conditions!

Faheem should play as an all rounder. Amirs prime job is to take wickets and apparently he cant buy one for a million dollars these days.

Abbas , hasan and afridi will most lilely be our trio of fast bowling with yasir accompanying them.
 
Faheem should play as an all rounder. Amirs prime job is to take wickets and apparently he cant buy one for a million dollars these days.

Abbas , hasan and afridi will most lilely be our trio of fast bowling with yasir accompanying them.
A fast bowling trio in South Africa is suicide.

They need the respite of a fourth quick to shorten their spells and keep up their pace and stamina.

Faheem is only a fourth seamer - you can’t play with three quicks.
 
Expecting some of the batsmen to outperform the expectations.

Fakhar likes ball coming onto bat, has performed in NZ and Eng till now but this is the first time he needs to do it in tests.
 
A fast bowling trio in South Africa is suicide.

They need the respite of a fourth quick to shorten their spells and keep up their pace and stamina.

Faheem is only a fourth seamer - you can’t play with three quicks.

Haris and yasir are there , dont think pakistan will be compromising on top 7 though and that too for faheems 10 runs.
 
It's possible some of our bowlers will have better averages than our batsmen.
 
This one's gonna be fun. Steyn, Rabada, Philander, up against our batsmen. What do you think they'll average on the tour?

Here's my prediction how each one will fare. Not sure who will be played amongst Imam/Hafeez/Fakhar.

Imam: 18
Fakhar: 15
Hafeez: 15
Azhar: 25
Haris: 30 to 40
Babar: 30 to 40
Shafiq: ~30
Sarfraz: 15


What do y'all predict?

As a frame of reference these are averages from the last tour.

Shafiq - 33
Azhar - 22
Sarfraz - 14
Hafeez - 7

And just to understand how the best 2 batsmen fared:

YK - 30
Misbah - 22

It's going to be a tough tour. SA tours always are for any Asian side.
 
Hafeez - 10
Imam - 10
Fakhar - 25
Azhar - 20
Haris - 35
Asad - 40
Babar - 35
Sarfraz - 25
Shadab - 30
 
Hafeez (if opening) - 18
Hafeez (middle order) - 32
Imam - 11
Fakhar - 48
Azhar - 19
Harris - 25
Asad - 14
Babar - 42
Sarfraz - 28
 
My predictions
Hafeez (2)
Imam (10)
Azhar(15)
Haris(18)
Asad(25)
Babar(20)
Sarfraz(12)

picking an opening pair such as imam and hafeez is suicide. they will be out in first few overs leading to collapse of the middle order-leading to the collapse of the lower order

solution to success in south africa is to either have a strong front three or bat really deep like England
 
Hafeez, If he plays: 5 (1 score over 10)
Imam: 15
Fakhar: 30
Azhar: 30
Haris:35
Babar:30
Shafiq: 20
Sarfraz:20
 
I DO NOT care as long as our team plays a total of 125+ overs combined in a test match. that will give us some fighting chance.
 
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Azhar Ali's tuk Tuk will help us see off the new ball. Once that's done it will be easier to score. Lower order batsmen like Babar and Shafiq will do better. Hafeez will fail most times. Haris Sohail can be the surprise package, he has the right technique for fast swinging balls
 
As a frame of reference these are averages from the last tour.

Shafiq - 33
Azhar - 22
Sarfraz - 14
Hafeez - 7

And just to understand how the best 2 batsmen fared:

YK - 30
Misbah - 22

It's going to be a tough tour. SA tours always are for any Asian side.

Yeah definitely a tough tour but I think Haris and Babar have more potential to perform in overseas tours than Younis or Misbah. They both are technically more sound and have more shots against poor balls.

I wont be surprised if the young generation outperforms the previous one in overseas tours.

Though for Babar to do well in this tour he will be needing support of openers along with Azhar and Asad eapecially when we know he comes to bat 4 down.
 
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Yeah definitely a tough tour but I think Haris and Babar have more potential to perform in overseas tours than Younis or Misbah. They both are technically more sound and have more shots against poor balls.

I wont be surprised if the young generation outperforms the previous one in overseas tours.

Though for Babar to do well in this tour he will be needing support of openers along with Azhar and Asad eapecially when we know he comes to bat 4 down.

As coming at 50/4 isnt gonna let Babar do much unless he plays a gem from there. Yes but a score like 130-150 /4 can let him to create some impact.
 
As coming at 50/4 isnt gonna let Babar do much unless he plays a gem from there. Yes but a score like 130-150 /4 can let him to create some impact.

Babar and Fakhar (I haven't seen enough of Haris) certainly are skilled enough to score in those conditions.

But you also have to keep in mind that this will be their first tour to SA. The first tour to SA is probably the most difficult tour for any Asian player because it has everything that an Asian batsman isn't used to - pace, bounce, seam and swing.

So while I'm sure some of the batsmen will score runs I don't think anyone will score a lot of runs. Because the batsmen who have the skills to succeed in SA are touring there for the first time and the batsmen who have prior experience of SA aren't all that good.
 
Azhar needs to open. If he can somehow withstand the opening spell from Steyn/Rabada/Philander then we might just have a chance. I'm fully in favor of a 20 off 120 balls from him. Once the shine is off the kookaburra the middle order has a chance to score. If you have Fakhar with him he can keep some scoring up.
 
As a frame of reference these are averages from the last tour.

Shafiq - 33
Azhar - 22
Sarfraz - 14
Hafeez - 7

And just to understand how the best 2 batsmen fared:

YK - 30
Misbah - 22

It's going to be a tough tour. SA tours always are for any Asian side.

No offence, but in 8 Tests in Australia and South Africa you will find that Misbah was not one of the “best two batsmen”, he was strictly a tailender who scored less runs than Mohammad Amir and Sohail Khan.

The only four active Pakistani batsmen with a decent record in Australia or South Africa or both are Asad Shafiq (decent in both), Azhar Ali (great in Australia, rubbish in South Africa), Umar Akmal (decent in Australia, never played in South Africa) and Salman Butt (great in Australia, never played in South Africa).
 
No offence, but in 8 Tests in Australia and South Africa you will find that Misbah was not one of the “best two batsmen”, he was strictly a tailender who scored less runs than Mohammad Amir and Sohail Khan.

The only four active Pakistani batsmen with a decent record in Australia or South Africa or both are Asad Shafiq (decent in both), Azhar Ali (great in Australia, rubbish in South Africa), Umar Akmal (decent in Australia, never played in South Africa) and Salman Butt (great in Australia, never played in South Africa).

I wasn't talking about the best two batsmen in SA or AUS or ENG.

I was talking about the 2 best batsmen in the side based on pedigree.

Basically to show how even quality batsmen like YK & Misbah struggled. You can include Azhar in that too.
 
I wasn't talking about the best two batsmen in SA or AUS or ENG.

I was talking about the 2 best batsmen in the side based on pedigree.

Basically to show how even quality batsmen like YK & Misbah struggled. You can include Azhar in that too.

Sure, but you are making the same fundamental error about playing in Australia and South Africa that Misbah made.

Being a good batsman in Asia or even England or New Zealand doesn’t help.

You need to be able to leave the 65% of balls which will travel over or just outside off-stump.

You need to be able to play with soft hands to defend the 10% which are full, straight deliveries.

And you need to pull, hook or cut the 25% of short balls.

That’s why Ijaz Ahmed was better than Inzamam in Australia.

That’s why Azhar Mahmood was better than Mohammad Yousuf in South Africa.

That’s why Azhar Ali failed in South Africa but succeeded on grassless pitches in Australia in 16-17.

That’s why if you wanted to pick the batting order most likely to succeed in South Africa in four weeks - which won’t happen for political reasons - you would pick the following:

1. Salman Butt
2. Azhar Ali
3. Asad Shafiq
4. Babar Azam
5. Umar Akmal
6. Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
7. Shadab Khan
8. Faheem Ashraf
9. Mohammad Amir
10. Shaheen Shah Afridi
11. Mohammad Abbas (or Mohammad Asif if Abbas is unfit).
 
If Asif is available, is there a reason why he can't be picked?

Big NO NO to Butt sahab. He is a fisherman - he will fish for anything pitched outside off and will be an easy prey for SA.

I will keep the same side with exception of Hafeez.
 
A fast bowling trio in South Africa is suicide.

They need the respite of a fourth quick to shorten their spells and keep up their pace and stamina.

Faheem is only a fourth seamer - you can’t play with three quicks.

I Agree with you 100% Faheem is a must as 4th bowler just to give rest to the 3 main pace bowlers who will need to bowl their hearts out so long spells are unrealistic.
 
Top order will definitely fail
That's why need a strong lower order to have any chance (like we did in England)
As good as Yasir is in UAE you just know he isn't going to be effective in SA (except Capetown maybe)
That's why Shadab has to play over him purely for his batting

Would go with this side ( and their predicted averages)

1) Imam - 15
2) Fakhar - 20
3) Azhar - 15
4) Harris - 25
5) Babar - 30
6) Sarfaraz - 25
7) Fahim - 25
8) Shadab - 25
9) Amir - 15
10) Hasan - 5
11) Abbas - 1

That's about an average score of 20, which gives us a chance

This is a massive series of Babar. He failed miserably in NZ earlier this year he needs to score in SA in both test and ODIs (i expect him to do so in odis)
 
Top order will definitely fail
That's why need a strong lower order to have any chance (like we did in England)
As good as Yasir is in UAE you just know he isn't going to be effective in SA (except Capetown maybe)
That's why Shadab has to play over him purely for his batting

Would go with this side ( and their predicted averages)

1) Imam - 15
2) Fakhar - 20
3) Azhar - 15
4) Harris - 25
5) Babar - 30
6) Sarfaraz - 25
7) Fahim - 25
8) Shadab - 25
9) Amir - 15
10) Hasan - 5
11) Abbas - 1

That's about an average score of 20, which gives us a chance

This is a massive series of Babar. He failed miserably in NZ earlier this year he needs to score in SA in both test and ODIs (i expect him to do so in odis)

I agree a 100%. problem is that Yasir will be picked for being senior for the first test. Let's see.
 
He absulely does my head in but Shafiq has the technique required to do well aswell as haris however I fear the rest will struggle..

Hoping this is the series Babar announces himself and makes it his series..
 
Sure, but you are making the same fundamental error about playing in Australia and South Africa that Misbah made.

Being a good batsman in Asia or even England or New Zealand doesn’t help.

You need to be able to leave the 65% of balls which will travel over or just outside off-stump.

You need to be able to play with soft hands to defend the 10% which are full, straight deliveries.

And you need to pull, hook or cut the 25% of short balls.

That’s why Ijaz Ahmed was better than Inzamam in Australia.

That’s why Azhar Mahmood was better than Mohammad Yousuf in South Africa.

That’s why Azhar Ali failed in South Africa but succeeded on grassless pitches in Australia in 16-17.

That’s why if you wanted to pick the batting order most likely to succeed in South Africa in four weeks - which won’t happen for political reasons - you would pick the following:

1. Salman Butt
2. Azhar Ali
3. Asad Shafiq
4. Babar Azam
5. Umar Akmal
6. Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
7. Shadab Khan
8. Faheem Ashraf
9. Mohammad Amir
10. Shaheen Shah Afridi
11. Mohammad Abbas (or Mohammad Asif if Abbas is unfit).

Salman Butt averages 18 against SAF at home and 23 in ENG .... but obviously, he is the savior of PAK batting at Centurion & J'burg against Styen, Rabada & Phillander, because 13 years back he scored a hundred on SCG belter against an ATG Aussie attack and he averages 42 in AUS roads.
 
A lot will depend on how PAK's openers negotiate the new ball threat - regardless of RR, if they can consume most part of first 23-25 overs, I am sure PAK middle order will score some good runs.

I am not sure who are going to play and at which position, but Babar & Asad should match their career average, if not better it, may be Haris as well. While, it might be really tough for Hafeez, Imam, Azhar & Sarfraz to match their career average, particularly Sarfraz, who still maintains a good average of 38+. Imam's average of 33 might come down to 20s after 3rd Test, and I hope he doesn't go even lower in SAF, while PAK's biggest problem in SAF had been MoHa - averages 11'87 for 12 Tests innings and that career started quite decently - his first 4 innings were 19, 15,13 & 32 .... since then, he has survived 21, 20, 14, 10, 35, 2, 44 & 1 balls; which means 6 of the 8 innings, he was out in opening spell of the opening pacers (7 times actually - that 35 was also against Styen).

Don't have much expectation from lower half - my hunch is, if both plays some game, Yasir will out bat Shadab and Amir will out bat Fahim; I hope they prove me wrong and do an Azhar Mahmood job for PAK's benefit.
 
Salman Butt averages 18 against SAF at home and 23 in ENG .... but obviously, he is the savior of PAK batting at Centurion & J'burg against Styen, Rabada & Phillander, because 13 years back he scored a hundred on SCG belter against an ATG Aussie attack and he averages 42 in AUS roads.
Batting with the extra bounce in Australia and South Africa is a unique skill. Poor returns in England or Asia really mean nothing.

I personally wouldn’t let Salman Butt play domestic let alone international cricket, because he is too old, and old players retire in batches and destabilise teams.

But a man with 2 centuries in 6 Tests in Australia clearly has the exact technique you need in South Africa.

Whereas Misbah played 8 Tests in Australia and South Africa, and scored 287 runs at an average of 19.33.

Misbah was a decent batsman in some conditions, but on bouncy wickets he was absolutely terrible. In 15 innings in Australia and South Africa he managed 2 fifties and no hundreds.

You have to pick batsmen with techniques suited to the conditions in South Africa.
 
Batting with the extra bounce in Australia and South Africa is a unique skill. Poor returns in England or Asia really mean nothing.

I personally wouldn’t let Salman Butt play domestic let alone international cricket, because he is too old, and old players retire in batches and destabilise teams.

But a man with 2 centuries in 6 Tests in Australia clearly has the exact technique you need in South Africa.

Whereas Misbah played 8 Tests in Australia and South Africa, and scored 287 runs at an average of 19.33.

Misbah was a decent batsman in some conditions, but on bouncy wickets he was absolutely terrible. In 15 innings in Australia and South Africa he managed 2 fifties and no hundreds.

You have to pick batsmen with techniques suited to the conditions in South Africa.

I know about that a little bit as well - that's why I categorically mentioned the venue - SCG. Salman's scores at WACA & MCG are 17, 9, 70, 0, 33 & 45 - that doesn't reflect that he clearly has the exact technique to survive in SAF, when 2 Tests are are at Highlands. In that regard, Azhar Ali has a double at MCG, he definitely has more than to show in SAF & he is younger than Butt as well. Coming to Salman - you are saying that the guy in his mid 30s, is out of PAK team for non cricketing issues which is a bit bluffing - for a guy averaging 30 in whole career, he isn't worthy of such praises.

I have seen you puffing PAK's UK results in recent times to multi fold, as if cricket doesn't exists elsewhere, but didn't see any praise for Misbah for that 2016 UK tour, which to me is a double standard. No Misbah fan has ever come to say that he is one of the greats of the game despite his MoS performance in UK, while here you are trying to convince us Salman Butt for his hundreds at SCG & Hobert 13 & 10 years back, should be savior of PAK team at J'burg & Centurion, for his technique.

Not sure, if I am fool here or you are trying to make me one, but I can at least request - leave Misbah, he is retired and he has left the game with his head high, as one of the best players of his last Series - Salman Butt left the scene in hand-calf.
 
My boys Babar, Haris doing very well in the practice match!

A 100, and 75.

Hopefully will average 40~+ in the actual games as well.
 
Azhar, Babar and Haris look to be in form.

So, they should get 120(minimum) from these 3.

Imam, Fakhar ans Asad combined should give 80.

Sarfraz, 25 and Tail 25.

That takes the score to 250.

Then bowlers should do their job.
 
Azhar, Babar and Haris look to be in form.

So, they should get 120(minimum) from these 3.

Imam, Fakhar ans Asad combined should give 80.

Sarfraz, 25 and Tail 25.

That takes the score to 250.

Then bowlers should do their job.

Sarfraz needs to sort his game out. At the moment it looks like he won’t get past double digits.
 
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