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Predict who Pakistan will beat in the World Cup group stage

GLORY OF '92 said:
Netherlands
Bangladesh
Afghanistan

Any other wins would be upsets.

Thoughts?
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Seeing how Bangladesh were able to defeat India and leave Pakistan at the bottom of the table in the Asia Cup and that Afghan spinners will give Pakistani batsmen a tough time on spinning wickets, I predict Pakistan will only beat Netherlands.
 
I know Pakistan wet the bed badly here in this Asia Cup, but saying any other wins would be upsets is just overreacting. I predict this:

Vs Netherlands - Win comfortably
Vs Sri Lanka - Win reasonably
Vs India - Lose comfortably (seriously want to be wrong here)
Vs Australia - Surprising, reasonable win
Vs Afghanistan - Win narrowly
Vs South Africa - Win reasonably (Pakistan have this team's number in WCs, sometimes I wonder why)
Vs Bangladesh - Win comfortably
Vs New Zealand - Lose narrowly
Vs England - Lose comfortably

So that's 6 wins and 3 losses. Assuming NRR doesn't come too much into play here, think this is enough for a 4th place finish for a semi-final spot.

It'd be the most Pakistan thing to, as usual, lose to India but then follow that up with beating Australia and have another close encounter with Afghanistan.

And if they make the semis, my guess is they'll face England (my favourites to win it all) and will lose in overwhelming fashion.
 
What type of pitches will be served in India , I hope they’re not all flat roads.

Isn’t there a time of year where it swings a bit ?
 
TeamPak95 said:
I know Pakistan wet the bed badly here in this Asia Cup, but saying any other wins would be upsets is just overreacting. I predict this:

Vs Netherlands - Win comfortably
Vs Sri Lanka - Win reasonably
Vs India - Lose comfortably (seriously want to be wrong here)
Vs Australia - Surprising, reasonable win
Vs Afghanistan - Win narrowly
Vs South Africa - Win reasonably (Pakistan have this team's number in WCs, sometimes I wonder why)
Vs Bangladesh - Win comfortably
Vs New Zealand - Lose narrowly
Vs England - Lose comfortably

So that's 6 wins and 3 losses. Assuming NRR doesn't come too much into play here, think this is enough for a 4th place finish for a semi-final spot.

It'd be the most Pakistan thing to, as usual, lose to India but then follow that up with beating Australia and have another close encounter with Afghanistan.

And if they make the semis, my guess is they'll face England (my favourites to win it all) and will lose in overwhelming fashion.
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I am not so sure we will beat SL nor Australia in the WC..
 
If its the same team as this Asia cup, then we'll probably lose to every team except Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Netherlands and Sri Lanka. Mainly because assuming our 3 trio is fit, these guys can't survive against our trio.

But the rest of the teams all can beat us rather easily especially SeNa and India.

But if we go with the team I suggested Saim, Abdullah opening led by babar at no 3, Saud at no 4, Tayyab at no 5, imad at 6, haris at 7 and a bowling unit being rotated with our trio, Arshad iqbal, amir Jamal or ihsanullah + Abrar as our front line spinner and usama incorporated as well.

Then I see us beating South Africa due to their chocking record, And India, England, Aus and NZ can go either way, they have the advantage obviously but the match still becomes a bit closer. Atm it's a stomp due to an out of form opener + a non existent middle order and non existent bowling department minus our world class trio.
 
The whole issue lies with the fact that everything in our team is non existent.

Our bowling trio is world class but babar is on a mission to end their careers once and for all.

The spin department is hilariously bad and besides our trio faheem is useless, don't know why Dhani was selected. Ihsanullah, Arshad iqbal, Abass afridi, Amir Jamal ( Where these boys at?)

The lower middle order is non existent. Shadab, Nawaz and faheem are laughable. Chacha and agha won't perform when it matters the most, the ain't winning any games.

Fakhar is extinct, if we go with Abdullah them things can improve but Abdullah is raw and hasn't developed the power hitting game yet so Abdullah and imam make for a pretty slow opening pair.

Babar is a bunny against quality spin. And lastly rizwan is just average.

We really only have babar, Imam and rizwan to rely on and our bowling trio. That's kinda about it. Neither babar, Imam or rizwan are winning you important matches especially with their 100% track record of Vanishing in important games.
 
Pakistan's batting will not worry any team at the World Cup.

If the 3 pacers are fit, then teams will be wary of their threat.

I think 4 wins, a mid table finish.
 
Saj said:
Pakistan's batting will not worry any team at the World Cup.

If the 3 pacers are fit, then teams will be wary of their threat.

I think 4 wins, a mid table finish.
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Pakistan will not make it through to the semifinals. At least 6 better sides there. Our luck is finally going to run out. To the delight of Modi.
 
It depends on the lineup.

The first issue is Naseem's health and when he will come back. If he's not available, the team is already weakened as they are heavily reliant on the fast bowlers.

The second issue is team composition.

They need to make adjustments and definitely include a specialist spinner. Playing spinners like Shadab, Nawaz, and Ifti in a subcontinent World Cup is something I would expect Australia/NZ/England to do. Not Pakistan.

In the 2011 WC, Shahid Afridi, Hafeez, and Saeed Ajmal were key. You can't walk in with this low-quality spin trio and expect anything other than an embarrassing exit before the semis.

If they play the Asia Cup team, they are only going to beat the Netherlands and Afghanistan with every other game becoming a toss-up. If they make adjustments then I would expect them to beat the Netherlands, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka, New Zealand, and South Africa. This will be enough to take them into the semis.
 
Realistically speaking, I think Pakistan should beat Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Netherlands, South Africa, and maybe Sri Lanka. Other games are probably going to be trickier.

I expect Pakistan to reach semi-final or finish at 5-6.
 
sweep_shot said:
Realistically speaking, I think Pakistan should beat Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Netherlands, South Africa, and maybe Sri Lanka. Other games are probably going to be trickier.

I expect Pakistan to reach semi-final or finish at 5-6.
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I think Sri Lanka game can go either way. So, Pakistan should win at least 4 and may win additional 1 or 2.
 
Vs Netherlands - Win
Vs Sri Lanka - Win
Vs India - Lose
Vs Australia - Win
Vs Afghanistan - Win
Vs South Africa - Win
Vs Bangladesh - Win
Vs New Zealand - Lose
Vs England - Lose
 
Vs Netherlands - Win
Vs Sri Lanka - Lose
Vs India - Lose
Vs Australia - Lose
Vs Afghanistan - Lose
Vs South Africa - Lose
Vs Bangladesh - Win
Vs New Zealand - Lose
Vs England - Lose
 
Klaasen and Miller are going to annihilate Shadab, Nawaz and Chacha

You boys may not know what’s about to hit you
 
Netherlands, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka, South Africa, NZ.
Our boogie team WI isn't in this world cup.
 
The pessimism on this post is just laughable , as long as pace trio are fit and we get the right batting combo in wel be fine IA.

90% chance we will lose to India and England though .
 
The realism of relying on 3 quicks in India is even more impressive. World class is a Pakistani description of the pack. They’ve got to prove it on dead tracks. Where’s the spinners?

And Rauf and SSA are phainty prone.
 
Nado_ said:
The pessimism on this post is just laughable , as long as pace trio are fit and we get the right batting combo in wel be fine IA.

90% chance we will lose to India and England though .
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They are 3 seamers, and the ball doesn’t bounce knee high in India

There will be batsmen who will line them up with their eyes closed
 
Professionalismandflair said:
The realism of relying on 3 quicks in India is even more impressive. World class is a Pakistani description of the pack. They’ve got to prove it on dead tracks. Where’s the spinners?

And Rauf and SSA are phainty prone.
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I didn’t say we would win the World Cup , my point was about people thinking we will only beat Holland etc I don’t think we would be totally outmatched by the likes of Sri Lanka , Oz and SAF in Asia , our spin is a huge problem of course but I can’t think of many teams with more than one class spinner.
 
To beat Ind we need player to throw caution to the wind like FZ did in 2017. Whoever it is will need luck but we have started to player with the fear that has permeated our cricket against them for the last 20 years. Babar needs to step up, bat and captain with aggression. Ind is vulnerable with an ageing batting and bowling lineup and they can be beaten
 
Vs Netherlands - Win
Vs Sri Lanka - Win
Vs India - Lose
Vs Australia - Lose
Vs Afghanistan - Win
Vs South Africa - Win
Vs Bangladesh - Win
Vs New Zealand - Win
Vs England - Lose
 
My pessimistic thought; Pakistan loses their opening match against Netherlands and lose all confidence, scratching away wins against Afghanistan and Bangladesh


My realistic prediction; Netherlands, Bangladesh, and one random out of nowhere win against one of England or New Zealand
 
We aren't winning the WC with this average batting lineup, so now that is out the way we can actually enjoy playing. On our day we can and will beat the best or get smashed. No one knows and that's why supporting PK is such an emotional ride. IA we havd succes but I want to see us play and not cower under pressure.
 
Rana said:
Pakistan must target these wins,

1. Netherlands
2. Afghanistan
3. Bangladesh
4. Sri Lanka
5. South Africa

These 5 wins are a must
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Yes these are the matches realistically possible for them & I think they will win them.Sure they will make them ugly & unnecessarily tight but they will get the jobs done somehow on those matches. As for the truly big games if they bring some changes & replace some soft bashers & baby spinners then they might somehow shock one of Eng/Nz. They have historically bullied Nz in wc, so they have a mental edge. But for that to happen current setup needs to be dismantled. I see absolutely zero chances against Ind & Aus. Bowling first they will be blown away with some ridiculous 350-400 level scores.Batting first they will huff & puff to something around 270 with contributions like 55(70) & 75(95) from Imam, Babar or Rizwan. Those scores will be chased within 45 overs.
 
Pretty insane to think Pakistan will beat The Netherlands.

During the 2015 Cricket World Cup, Pakistan lost to the West Indies by 150-runs.

In 2019, Pakistan again lost the West Indies by 7 wickets

In 2011, Pakistan narrowly beat Canada. Pakistan was dismissed for 184-runs against Canada’s 138.

In 2007, Pakistan was defeated by Ireland.

If history is anything to go by, Pakistan will maintain this record of capitulating to minnows.
 
Too much pessimism on the match against india. If india get to chase under lights, the trio can do it for pak.
 
The most Pakistani thing to do would be to beat England and Australia but then shell matches to SL and Afghanistan. SL and Afghanistan are proper banana skins. Afghanistan in Chennai - I have my doubts.
 
We are capable of beating anyone, we have a few players out of form who can click with one match. All is not lost, the players need to show mental strength and unity. We will make it to the semis and then it is anyone's day.
 
chinaman00 said:
Pretty insane to think Pakistan will beat The Netherlands.

During the 2015 Cricket World Cup, Pakistan lost to the West Indies by 150-runs.

In 2019, Pakistan again lost the West Indies by 7 wickets

In 2011, Pakistan narrowly beat Canada. Pakistan was dismissed for 184-runs against Canada’s 138.

In 2007, Pakistan was defeated by Ireland.

If history is anything to go by, Pakistan will maintain this record of capitulating to minnows.
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True, but, in 2015 Pak managed to beat an SA with De Villiers, Steyn, and Morkel.

In 2019, Pak beat NZ by a decent margin (who went on to the finals).

And while 2007 was a massive failure, in 2011 Pak still made it to the SFs.

That's the beauty and the curse of Pak cricket, there's no point predicting it, might as well flip a coin at the start of every game.

You are right in that there is a big chance the team will capitulate to minnows, but there is just as much of a chance of them turning it around against at least some of the SENA teams.
 
TeamPak95 said:
I know Pakistan wet the bed badly here in this Asia Cup, but saying any other wins would be upsets is just overreacting. I predict this:

Vs Netherlands - Win comfortably
Vs Sri Lanka - Win reasonably
Vs India - Lose comfortably (seriously want to be wrong here)
Vs Australia - Surprising, reasonable win
Vs Afghanistan - Win narrowly
Vs South Africa - Win reasonably (Pakistan have this team's number in WCs, sometimes I wonder why)
Vs Bangladesh - Win comfortably
Vs New Zealand - Lose narrowly
Vs England - Lose comfortably

So that's 6 wins and 3 losses. Assuming NRR doesn't come too much into play here, think this is enough for a 4th place finish for a semi-final spot.

It'd be the most Pakistan thing to, as usual, lose to India but then follow that up with beating Australia and have another close encounter with Afghanistan.

And if they make the semis, my guess is they'll face England (my favourites to win it all) and will lose in overwhelming fashion.
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If Pak makes the Semis then everything from there onwards will be potluck, there's no point trying to predict a result. All the team has to do is show up for 2 matches in a row and they've won the WC (of course the opposite also holds true).
 
Vs Netherlands - One sided win
Vs Sri Lanka - Win Easily
Vs India - Win a very very close game , nail bitter.
Vs Australia - lose a close game.
Vs Afghanistan - Win close game
Vs South Africa - Lose close game
Vs Bangladesh - Win by narrow margin
Vs New Zealand - Lose
Vs England - Lose .
 
Justcrazy said:
Vs Netherlands - One sided win
Vs Sri Lanka - Win Easily
Vs India - Win a very very close game , nail bitter.
Vs Australia - lose a close game.
Vs Afghanistan - Win close game
Vs South Africa - Lose close game
Vs Bangladesh - Win by narrow margin
Vs New Zealand - Lose
Vs England - Lose .
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i am pretty much sure that Pakistan wil win against NZ and SA.
 
Vs Netherlands - Win
Vs Sri Lanka - Win
Vs India - Lose
Vs Australia - Lose
Vs Afghanistan - Win
Vs South Africa - Win
Vs Bangladesh - Win
Vs New Zealand - Win
Vs England - Lose
 
pakistanbest said:
We are capable of beating anyone, we have a few players out of form who can click with one match. All is not lost, the players need to show mental strength and unity. We will make it to the semis and then it is anyone's day.
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Dreams sadly not based on real situations.
 
Rana said:
Klaasen and Miller are going to annihilate Shadab, Nawaz and Chacha

You boys may not know what’s about to hit you
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It's a day and night match in chennai.Chasing will be quite tough there. Pakistan should hope for toss and decimate south africa.
 
Expecting them to lose one of these easier games.

Sri Lanka - more likely - in fact will give Sri Lanka little edge when they have Hasranga back.
Bangladesh - In Kolkata - can be tricky
Afghanistan - In Chennai - Afghan spinners will be a pain to deal with on this pitch

Expecting them to upset one of these bigger teams

England - Most likely Pakistani batters find their bowling easier. England will have to outbat Pakistan to win this game which is not easy.
India - Less likely but if they make early inroads with Sharma and Kohli
Australia - Least likely.

Expecting them to brush aside NZ and South Africa. They just don't turn up against Pakistan.
 
Pakistan will beat
netherlands
Afganistan
Bangladesh
New Zealand

50/50
Sri Lanka
South Africa

They will loose to England and India convincingly
 
Rana said:
They can target it but the Kiwis won’t let them walk over them in the group stages

They will in the Semis
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NZ, England and Australia have poor spinners so if we get a slow wicket against these three - we have a chance..
 
Can we all just admit that 2019 Pakistan was far far superior to our 2023 team? I don't know why people have an issue with this.

Only thing 2023 Pakistan is superior in is the bowling trio of shaheen, Haris and naseem being superior to the trio of shaheen, Wahab and Amir (Even then not by alot, wahab on his day is a killer bowler and so is amir)

Let's analyse both teams.

2019 fakhar > 2023 Fakhar
2019 Imam = 2023 Imam (Imam is the sane since 2018 lol)
2023 Babar > 2019 Babar

Our middle order of hafeez, Malik, Imad waseem, Haris sohail and sarfraz is infintly superior to the middle order we typically play in rizwan, Agha, Chacha, Shadab, Nawaz/Faheem.

Our spin department of hafeez, Imad, Malik and haris sohail is infintly better then our current non existent spin department. And hasan Ali was still superior then faheem, better batsmen then faheem as well.

Besides our bowling trio, how is the 2019 pak team worse then the 2023 one? Doesn't make any sense.
 
The level of pessimism amongst fans is on an all time high. Pakistan has a sure spot in semi and possibly in final too. Pakistan is a team which surprises everyone when no one gives them a chance. It's blessing in disguise for Pakistan the way Pakistan had been knocked out of Asia cup
 
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pakpassfan said:
Well are there any doubts?
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Kinda of. Their team is smoking Australia right now. I kind of expected them to chock everyone they show up in a tournament. Only 2015 was a suprise.

I don't think it'll happen this time around though.
 
mominsaigol said:
Can we all just admit that 2019 Pakistan was far far superior to our 2023 team? I don't know why people have an issue with this.

Only thing 2023 Pakistan is superior in is the bowling trio of shaheen, Haris and naseem being superior to the trio of shaheen, Wahab and Amir (Even then not by alot, wahab on his day is a killer bowler and so is amir)

Let's analyse both teams.

2019 fakhar > 2023 Fakhar
2019 Imam = 2023 Imam (Imam is the sane since 2018 lol)
2023 Babar > 2019 Babar

Our middle order of hafeez, Malik, Imad waseem, Haris sohail and sarfraz is infintly superior to the middle order we typically play in rizwan, Agha, Chacha, Shadab, Nawaz/Faheem.

Our spin department of hafeez, Imad, Malik and haris sohail is infintly better then our current non existent spin department. And hasan Ali was still superior then faheem, better batsmen then faheem as well.

Besides our bowling trio, how is the 2019 pak team worse then the 2023 one? Doesn't make any sense.
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This isn’t true at all.

Fakhar was in wretched form in the 2019 World Cup. He couldn’t get his act together throughout the tournament.

He is terrible form right now too, but he had a stellar start to the year and at worst, he is equal to the player he was in 2019.

Imam has clearly taken his game up a notch since 2021. He will definitely outperform his 2019 version more often than not.

2019 version of Sarfraz cannot lace Rizwan’s boots and I say this as someone who doesn’t rate Rizwan highly. Sarfraz post 2017 was a disastrous player.

2019 Malik was a spent force and Iftikhar today is clearly better than him. Similarly, Asif Ali was a regular feature in the middle-order back then and someone like Agha is much better than him.

The pace trio of Shaheen, Rauf and Naseem is more reliable and functional than Amir, Hassan and Wahab.

The spin department is pretty much the same. Imad’s stock has risen because he has been out of the team for long and in Pakistan cricket, the longer you spend out of the team the better you become in the eyes of the fans.

That is the nature of Pakistani fans. When Imad was in the team they wanted Nawaz and now Imad with his embarrassing bowling averages against the top teams in ODIs has become the solution.

The reality is that Imad, Nawaz and Shadab are all interchangeable and no one really makes the team any better or worse than the other in the long-term.

Hafeez and Haris would walk into the Pakistan middle-order though, but Pakistan has Saud Shakeel now whom it can use to equally good effect.

Overall, Pakistan of today is definitely a better ODI team than the one in 2019 that ended the World Cup 5th out of 10 teams with the third worst NRR.
 
Sunny_majoka said:
The level of pessimism amongst fans is on an all time high. Pakistan has a sure spot in semi and possibly in final too. Pakistan is a team which surprises everyone when no one gives them a chance. It's blessing in disguise for Pakistan the way Pakistan had been knocked out of Asia cup
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Boss, there is no blessing in disguise in defeats in any sport. It's a phrase used by us fans to console ourselves after our team suffers a loss.
 
Mamoon said:
This isn’t true at all.

Fakhar was in wretched form in the 2019 World Cup. He couldn’t get his act together throughout the tournament.

He is terrible form right now too, but he had a stellar start to the year and at worst, he is equal to the player he was in 2019.

Imam has clearly taken his game up a notch since 2021. He will definitely outperform his 2019 version more often than not.

2019 version of Sarfraz cannot lace Rizwan’s boots and I say this as someone who doesn’t rate Rizwan highly. Sarfraz post 2017 was a disastrous player.

2019 Malik was a spent force and Iftikhar today is clearly better than him. Similarly, Asif Ali was a regular feature in the middle-order back then and someone like Agha is much better than him.

The pace trio of Shaheen, Rauf and Naseem is more reliable and functional than Amir, Hassan and Wahab.

The spin department is pretty much the same. Imad’s stock has risen because he has been out of the team for long and in Pakistan cricket, the longer you spend out of the team the better you become in the eyes of the fans.

That is the nature of Pakistani fans. When Imad was in the team they wanted Nawaz and now Imad with his embarrassing bowling averages against the top teams in ODIs has become the solution.

The reality is that Imad, Nawaz and Shadab are all interchangeable and no one really makes the team any better or worse than the other in the long-term.

Hafeez and Haris would walk into the Pakistan middle-order though, but Pakistan has Saud Shakeel now whom it can use to equally good effect.

Overall, Pakistan of today is definitely a better ODI team than the one in 2019 that ended the World Cup 5th out of 10 teams with the third worst NRR.
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Current Fakhar is far far worse then 2019 fakhar lol. Not even a comparison.

How has imam taken his game up a notch? If anything the rate he use to get his 100's has decreased since then. I remember imam's rate of getting 100's including that 150 knock he played. Imam has slightly tlregressed since then, not improved.

Rizwan hogs the no 4 spot, Sarfraz shifted himself at various point of the order. Rizwan is not going to do anything this world cup. Sarfraz socred an important 55 against 1st string England. Rizwan would have had a terrible Asia cup besides his forgetful innings against Nepal. Kusal mendis allowed rizwan to score big at no 4. Also sarfraz wasn't our permanent no 4, he shifted himself multiple times. Haris often was batting at no 4 or no 5.

Why are you comparing and contrasting different players and equating them to each other. Agha and imad is the comparison, not Agha and asif Ali, imad is the allrounder lol.

Nawaz isn't even licking the boots of imad. Imad's bowling stats are inflated due to getting dominated by 1st string sides. Nawaz can't even defend 16 of 6 and helped In giving a no ball and a wide, his batting doesn't even come close.

The spin department is not the same, that is the biggest lie you can ever tell someone, Hafeez is a million times superior to Any of our current spinners, Same goes for haris sohail who was actually pretty good and same goes for imad waseem who did really well against afghanistan, Compared that with shadab as our front line who is single handedly worse them Any spinner in international cricket at the moment.

You're basically being dishonest with yourself. Your only argument for saud shakeel is the same argument as mine. I want saud to walk in but our clueless captain will not let him.

We'll see how this team fairs against England or New Zealand this time around and then we'll talk as to which team was superior.

Malik, Hafeez, Imad, Haris, Sarfraz, these lads were much stronger then our Nigh useless middle order considering we actually have MO batsmen in the squad but their all water boys. We actually had a spin department whereas our current spin department is non existent.

The only strong case you've made is for malik and sarfraz at the time, and that's pretty much about it.
 
Sunny_majoka said:
The level of pessimism amongst fans is on an all time high. Pakistan has a sure spot in semi and possibly in final too. Pakistan is a team which surprises everyone when no one gives them a chance. It's blessing in disguise for Pakistan the way Pakistan had been knocked out of Asia cup
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Being knocked out of a tournament at the eve of another tournament is a blessing in disguise? Do tell how please
 
mominsaigol said:
Current Fakhar is far far worse then 2019 fakhar lol. Not even a comparison.

How has imam taken his game up a notch? If anything the rate he use to get his 100's has decreased since then. I remember imam's rate of getting 100's including that 150 knock he played. Imam has slightly tlregressed since then, not improved.

Rizwan hogs the no 4 spot, Sarfraz shifted himself at various point of the order. Rizwan is not going to do anything this world cup. Sarfraz socred an important 55 against 1st string England. Rizwan would have had a terrible Asia cup besides his forgetful innings against Nepal. Kusal mendis allowed rizwan to score big at no 4. Also sarfraz wasn't our permanent no 4, he shifted himself multiple times. Haris often was batting at no 4 or no 5.

Why are you comparing and contrasting different players and equating them to each other. Agha and imad is the comparison, not Agha and asif Ali, imad is the allrounder lol.

Nawaz isn't even licking the boots of imad. Imad's bowling stats are inflated due to getting dominated by 1st string sides. Nawaz can't even defend 16 of 6 and helped In giving a no ball and a wide, his batting doesn't even come close.

The spin department is not the same, that is the biggest lie you can ever tell someone, Hafeez is a million times superior to Any of our current spinners, Same goes for haris sohail who was actually pretty good and same goes for imad waseem who did really well against afghanistan, Compared that with shadab as our front line who is single handedly worse them Any spinner in international cricket at the moment.

You're basically being dishonest with yourself. Your only argument for saud shakeel is the same argument as mine. I want saud to walk in but our clueless captain will not let him.

We'll see how this team fairs against England or New Zealand this time around and then we'll talk as to which team was superior.

Malik, Hafeez, Imad, Haris, Sarfraz, these lads were much stronger then our Nigh useless middle order considering we actually have MO batsmen in the squad but their all water boys. We actually had a spin department whereas our current spin department is non existent.

The only strong case you've made is for malik and sarfraz at the time, and that's pretty much about it.
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Your assertion that current Fakhar is far far worse than the 2019 version is not backed by anything. It is just what you want to believe to suit your narrative and what you want others to believe. 2019 was a very lean year for him - he averaged 34 in 20 ODIs with 1 century. In 2023, he is averaging 46 in 16 ODIs with 3 centuries. He has hit a rough patch now but 2023 has been one of his most productive years in terms of consistency and peak performances.

Imam has taken his game up a notch over the last couple of years. He is not scoring as many centuries as he used to, but he has improved his SR which means even his half-centuries and other contributions are more valuable than they were few years back. He has improved his ability to rotate the strike, which is why in 2018-19, he averaging 50 at 82 and in 2022-23, he is averaging 50 at 87. Imam is clearly a better player today than he was in 2019. Your assertion that he is the same player is, again, not backed by anything - it just what you want to believe.

Sarfraz's batting form tanked badly in 2018-19. He was very good in ODIs in 2015-2017 but his form dipped badly in 2018 and 2019 which is why he could only produce 2 half-centuries in 36 ODIs at an average of 31. He could not hog any position in the batting lineup because he was not performing. There were times where he would send a tailender above him because even they could slog better than him. His awful batting performances were a major reason behind his exclusion from the team with Rizwan taking over.

ODI is not Rizwan's strongest format but if you look at his performances with the bat this year and what Sarfraz did in 2018-19, it is not even a comparison. Rizwan is far better. He is averaging 63 with the bat in ODIs this year.

I'm comparing Agha and Asif because they bat at similar positions. The reason why I didn't compare him to Imad is because their roles were different. Agha is selected as a batsman who can bowl a few overs while Imad, while he was playing for Pakistan, was selected as a frontline spinner along with Shadab who could also contribute with the bat.

Imad's biggest problem was that his supposedly secondary skill (batting) in ODIs was better than his primary skill (bowling). As a frontline spinner, he was not good enough to deliver 10 solid overs which meant he was not fulfilling his job. His batting skills were better than Shadab and Nawaz for sure, but as a bowler, he was not better or worse than them in the ODI format.

He averaged 66 with the ball in ODIs in 2019. Nawaz is averaging 43 with the ball this year and Shadab is averaging 40. Replacing either of the two with Imad of today or of 2019 does not address our spin bowling woes at all. As I said, they are all interchangeable and your asserting that Nawaz isn't even licking Imad's boots is backed by nothing - it is just what you want to believe in.

You have the same problem as most other Pakistani fans - the longer a player stays out of the team, the higher his stock and the greater the revisionism over his past performances. If Imad was consistently playing all these years and failing with the ball as he always did in the format against good batting lineups, you would be advocating for Nawaz to replace him.

When Imad and Shadab were playing together for 2 years, almost everyone considered Shadab to be the better player. Now that Imad has been out for years and people have forgotten how awful he was with the ball, he has suddenly become a better player than Shadab. The reality is that neither of the two, and the three, are good enough to your frontline spinners in ODIs.

Your point that Imad's stats are worse because of playing full-strength sides means nothing. It is not something that can be used to defend his performances. The fact that he averages 60+ against the full-strength teams means that he is not good enough and no one should be advocating for his return to the team.

Nawaz with an average of 43 and Shadab with an average of 39 would probably, at worst, average 60+ against full-strength teams so there is no strong case for Imad to be selected over them. Imad playing over either of the two in ODIs does not solve Pakistan's woes in the spin department.

If Shadab was out of the team for 3 years like Imad, his stock would be soaring today and people wouldn't shut up about how he should be in the team. That is how he deluded and ignorant Pakistani fans are.

Hafeez the bowler was a non-factor when he was not chucking. He was a part-timer when bowling with a clean action and whenever he was under the pump, he would resort to chucking because he knew no other way to be effective. Pakistan is not missing Hafeez the legal bowler, but yes he would be a very useful batsman in the middle-order right now.

Malik in 2019 was finished. Iftikhar right now is a much better batsman than Malik who offered nothing. Malik averaged 20 in 2019; Iftikhar averages 60 in 2023.

Pakistan in 2018-2019 produced one of its most embarrassing eras in ODI cricket. They lost 24 out of 31 ODIs against the top sides including a 8 match losing streak and ended the World Cup 2019 with the third worst NRR among all sides. This current team is not amazing by any means, but they cannot stoop as low as that Pakistan team did, and if you pit them against each other in a series in any conditions, this team will beat that team more often than not.
 
We need to win 5/9 (atleast) or 6/9 (ideally) matches to qualify for the Semi-finals. I still believe that we can beat NED, SL, AFG, BAN, AUS/NZ, SA (5-6 wins) with the right selections from the available pool, better captaincy and positive mindset.
 
Everyone believing Pak will win their first match vs NED. After what I have seen in 2007 WC and shameful loss against Zim last year, this isn't gonna be cake walk for them. Also if Afg has to beat Pakistan ever in ODI format then it has to be a typical Indian pitch. Rashid, Mujeeb, Nabi and Noor will bowl 40 overs to Babar, Fakhar, Ifti and Agha. It would be miracle to outclass such class and skill full spinners on spin friendly wicket. Finally against BAN, I think Pak will do well and win comfortably.

Apart from these 3 teams, rest of the matches are going to be typical Pak matches 'One minute down, Next minute up'. It is a gamble, some you win but majority you loose.
 
Mamoon said:
Your assertion that current Fakhar is far far worse than the 2019 version is not backed by anything. It is just what you want to believe to suit your narrative and what you want others to believe. 2019 was a very lean year for him - he averaged 34 in 20 ODIs with 1 century. In 2023, he is averaging 46 in 16 ODIs with 3 centuries. He has hit a rough patch now but 2023 has been one of his most productive years in terms of consistency and peak performances.

Imam has taken his game up a notch over the last couple of years. He is not scoring as many centuries as he used to, but he has improved his SR which means even his half-centuries and other contributions are more valuable than they were few years back. He has improved his ability to rotate the strike, which is why in 2018-19, he averaging 50 at 82 and in 2022-23, he is averaging 50 at 87. Imam is clearly a better player today than he was in 2019. Your assertion that he is the same player is, again, not backed by anything - it just what you want to believe.

Sarfraz's batting form tanked badly in 2018-19. He was very good in ODIs in 2015-2017 but his form dipped badly in 2018 and 2019 which is why he could only produce 2 half-centuries in 36 ODIs at an average of 31. He could not hog any position in the batting lineup because he was not performing. There were times where he would send a tailender above him because even they could slog better than him. His awful batting performances were a major reason behind his exclusion from the team with Rizwan taking over.

ODI is not Rizwan's strongest format but if you look at his performances with the bat this year and what Sarfraz did in 2018-19, it is not even a comparison. Rizwan is far better. He is averaging 63 with the bat in ODIs this year.

I'm comparing Agha and Asif because they bat at similar positions. The reason why I didn't compare him to Imad is because their roles were different. Agha is selected as a batsman who can bowl a few overs while Imad, while he was playing for Pakistan, was selected as a frontline spinner along with Shadab who could also contribute with the bat.

Imad's biggest problem was that his supposedly secondary skill (batting) in ODIs was better than his primary skill (bowling). As a frontline spinner, he was not good enough to deliver 10 solid overs which meant he was not fulfilling his job. His batting skills were better than Shadab and Nawaz for sure, but as a bowler, he was not better or worse than them in the ODI format.

He averaged 66 with the ball in ODIs in 2019. Nawaz is averaging 43 with the ball this year and Shadab is averaging 40. Replacing either of the two with Imad of today or of 2019 does not address our spin bowling woes at all. As I said, they are all interchangeable and your asserting that Nawaz isn't even licking Imad's boots is backed by nothing - it is just what you want to believe in.

You have the same problem as most other Pakistani fans - the longer a player stays out of the team, the higher his stock and the greater the revisionism over his past performances. If Imad was consistently playing all these years and failing with the ball as he always did in the format against good batting lineups, you would be advocating for Nawaz to replace him.

When Imad and Shadab were playing together for 2 years, almost everyone considered Shadab to be the better player. Now that Imad has been out for years and people have forgotten how awful he was with the ball, he has suddenly become a better player than Shadab. The reality is that neither of the two, and the three, are good enough to your frontline spinners in ODIs.

Your point that Imad's stats are worse because of playing full-strength sides means nothing. It is not something that can be used to defend his performances. The fact that he averages 60+ against the full-strength teams means that he is not good enough and no one should be advocating for his return to the team.

Nawaz with an average of 43 and Shadab with an average of 39 would probably, at worst, average 60+ against full-strength teams so there is no strong case for Imad to be selected over them. Imad playing over either of the two in ODIs does not solve Pakistan's woes in the spin department.

If Shadab was out of the team for 3 years like Imad, his stock would be soaring today and people wouldn't shut up about how he should be in the team. That is how he deluded and ignorant Pakistani fans are.

Hafeez the bowler was a non-factor when he was not chucking. He was a part-timer when bowling with a clean action and whenever he was under the pump, he would resort to chucking because he knew no other way to be effective. Pakistan is not missing Hafeez the legal bowler, but yes he would be a very useful batsman in the middle-order right now.

Malik in 2019 was finished. Iftikhar right now is a much better batsman than Malik who offered nothing. Malik averaged 20 in 2019; Iftikhar averages 60 in 2023.

Pakistan in 2018-2019 produced one of its most embarrassing eras in ODI cricket. They lost 24 out of 31 ODIs against the top sides including a 8 match losing streak and ended the World Cup 2019 with the third worst NRR among all sides. This current team is not amazing by any means, but they cannot stoop as low as that Pakistan team did, and if you pit them against each other in a series in any conditions, this team will beat that team more often than not.
Click to expand...

1) How is it not backed by anything? These string of low scores is enough backing. You're relying on those inflated 180 and 114 scores this year to prove your point. That's an extremely hypocritical way to look at something when you know damn well atm he isn't qualified enough to bat in the Nepal lineup, considering minnow bowlers are walking all over him. Fakhar was able to score a 62 against India in the 2019 wc, rn he isnt getting anywhere close to scoring a 50 even against nedtehrlands. Don't use that 180 score that inflated his stats to justify your argument, it'll fall on deaf ears.

2) I think you're using stats to tell a picture that's clearly not accurate to support your argument, when in reality you know damn well using stats to justify your case is the weakest argument one can produce mainly because of the series of 2nd string sides he's facing.

Imam scored more centuries back in the day, played against more 1st string attacks. If anything his power game has regressed but the stats tell a different story due to his stat padding against a c string aus team and other c string teams. Imam use to utilise 2 lofted strokes where he would come down the wicket to hit a 6. He no longer plays that shot likely due to his stat padding nature. He's regressed, hasn't progressed. The one who isn't backing his argument is you, since you're obviously relying on faulty stats to justify everything rather then looking at the broader picture of the fact that he's been facing c string sides and his overall game of 100 scoring and staying at the crease had diminished.

3) Stats again? Lol. And incorrect, Sarfraz was booted out of the team by misbah trying his level hardest to get rid of him, sarfi literally outshines rizwan in test even though he's old and unfit now. Furthermore he was facing 1st string attacks. Rizwan does not score unless the track is either flat or the bowling is 2nd string, what part of that is hard to understand? If you stopped relying on your so called stats, you'd realise rizwan can't play on pitches that do not favour him. Theirs a reason he was exposed in Australia along with babar to the point everyone in the middle order was outperforming both of them. Even yesterday he scored primarily due to the pitch evidently being flat even then giving away 2 dropped catches. Don't quote stats on me 😂.

4) Let me guess, Stats again? 😂😂. Imad averages High primarily because he got tonked by 1st string sides which at the time all our sides were getting tonked especially in that embracing 444 England game. 2019 England were Peak and were bullying even the likes of bumrah and rashid khan on their day.

Shadab's average of 40 is against 2nd string. Same with nawaz, we saw how badly they get tonked far far worse then imad when they actually play full string teams. His full tosses will get smacked.

5) "You have the same problem as most pakistani fans"

^^ broskie, you don't even know me, Ik who's a bits and pieces cricketer and who isn't.

6) "Imad playing over them does not solve pakistan's woes in the spin department "

This time I agree with you, but firstly shadab was garbage against a 2nd string NZ, the same NZ side that inad dominated. Secondly, it solves our allrounder and bits and pieces problem, Imad > Shadab anyday. The conversation I posed was about pak 2019 > Pak 2023, don't change the topic on current affairs. Our 2019 team was medicore but it's > our 2023 team, so kindly don't change the topic to improvement of our 2023 team, if shadab and nawaz as you said would average 60+ then I'd remove the 2 of them and atleast play imad mainly cause the batting is needed. He doesn't need to bowl all 10 overs lol.

Remember og premise is simple, Pak 2019 > Pak 2023, Not if pak 2019 is a good team or not, ik it's medicore lol.

7) OH bhai averages ko rahnei dei 😂, as for hafeez he bowled well in the cup, and is still superior to any our current batsmen and no not because of stats, he's a medicore player but plays spin better then anyone in the team atm except for saud, Saud plays spin better but he isn't even considered in the front lines.

All of your arguments are looking at stats and taking into various other factors that led to these so called stats.
 
mominsaigol said:
1) How is it not backed by anything? These string of low scores is enough backing. You're relying on those inflated 180 and 114 scores this year to prove your point. That's an extremely hypocritical way to look at something when you know damn well atm he isn't qualified enough to bat in the Nepal lineup, considering minnow bowlers are walking all over him. Fakhar was able to score a 62 against India in the 2019 wc, rn he isnt getting anywhere close to scoring a 50 even against nedtehrlands. Don't use that 180 score that inflated his stats to justify your argument, it'll fall on deaf ears.

2) I think you're using stats to tell a picture that's clearly not accurate to support your argument, when in reality you know damn well using stats to justify your case is the weakest argument one can produce mainly because of the series of 2nd string sides he's facing.

Imam scored more centuries back in the day, played against more 1st string attacks. If anything his power game has regressed but the stats tell a different story due to his stat padding against a c string aus team and other c string teams. Imam use to utilise 2 lofted strokes where he would come down the wicket to hit a 6. He no longer plays that shot likely due to his stat padding nature. He's regressed, hasn't progressed. The one who isn't backing his argument is you, since you're obviously relying on faulty stats to justify everything rather then looking at the broader picture of the fact that he's been facing c string sides and his overall game of 100 scoring and staying at the crease had diminished.

3) Stats again? Lol. And incorrect, Sarfraz was booted out of the team by misbah trying his level hardest to get rid of him, sarfi literally outshines rizwan in test even though he's old and unfit now. Furthermore he was facing 1st string attacks. Rizwan does not score unless the track is either flat or the bowling is 2nd string, what part of that is hard to understand? If you stopped relying on your so called stats, you'd realise rizwan can't play on pitches that do not favour him. Theirs a reason he was exposed in Australia along with babar to the point everyone in the middle order was outperforming both of them. Even yesterday he scored primarily due to the pitch evidently being flat even then giving away 2 dropped catches. Don't quote stats on me 😂.

4) Let me guess, Stats again? 😂😂. Imad averages High primarily because he got tonked by 1st string sides which at the time all our sides were getting tonked especially in that embracing 444 England game. 2019 England were Peak and were bullying even the likes of bumrah and rashid khan on their day.

Shadab's average of 40 is against 2nd string. Same with nawaz, we saw how badly they get tonked far far worse then imad when they actually play full string teams. His full tosses will get smacked.

5) "You have the same problem as most pakistani fans"

^^ broskie, you don't even know me, Ik who's a bits and pieces cricketer and who isn't.

6) "Imad playing over them does not solve pakistan's woes in the spin department "

This time I agree with you, but firstly shadab was garbage against a 2nd string NZ, the same NZ side that inad dominated. Secondly, it solves our allrounder and bits and pieces problem, Imad > Shadab anyday. The conversation I posed was about pak 2019 > Pak 2023, don't change the topic on current affairs. Our 2019 team was medicore but it's > our 2023 team, so kindly don't change the topic to improvement of our 2023 team, if shadab and nawaz as you said would average 60+ then I'd remove the 2 of them and atleast play imad mainly cause the batting is needed. He doesn't need to bowl all 10 overs lol.

Remember og premise is simple, Pak 2019 > Pak 2023, Not if pak 2019 is a good team or not, ik it's medicore lol.

7) OH bhai averages ko rahnei dei 😂, as for hafeez he bowled well in the cup, and is still superior to any our current batsmen and no not because of stats, he's a medicore player but plays spin better then anyone in the team atm except for saud, Saud plays spin better but he isn't even considered in the front lines.

All of your arguments are looking at stats and taking into various other factors that led to these so called stats.
Click to expand...
More waffling that is backed by nothing.

I just proved to you why Pakistan’s current ODI team is better than the 2019 one if you do man to man comparison.

I can’t change your mind if you don’t keep an open mind. Aap ko 2019 ki team mubarak ho.
 
Mamoon said:
More waffling that is backed by nothing.

I just proved to you why Pakistan’s current ODI team is better than the 2019 one if you do man to man comparison.

I can’t change your mind if you don’t keep an open mind. Aap ko 2019 ki team mubarak ho.
Click to expand...
Brother I am countering each and every point of yours.

I'm not the arrogant one here, it's you who's relying on sole stats to back up a non existent premise. But I will be the bigger man, because I'd rather not fight and cause a war over a topic that's extremely trivial. So I'll end it here and say good discussion.
 
Bewal Express said:
To beat Ind we need player to throw caution to the wind like FZ did in 2017. Whoever it is will need luck but we have started to player with the fear that has permeated our cricket against them for the last 20 years. Babar needs to step up, bat and captain with aggression. Ind is vulnerable with an ageing batting and bowling lineup and they can be beaten
Click to expand...
1st and foremost, Babar needs to stand up and deliver as a batsman vs India for once.
 
SamNJ said:
Expecting them to lose one of these easier games.

Sri Lanka - more likely - in fact will give Sri Lanka little edge when they have Hasranga back.
Bangladesh - In Kolkata - can be tricky
Afghanistan - In Chennai - Afghan spinners will be a pain to deal with on this pitch

Expecting them to upset one of these bigger teams

England - Most likely Pakistani batters find their bowling easier. England will have to outbat Pakistan to win this game which is not easy.
India - Less likely but if they make early inroads with Sharma and Kohli
Australia - Least likely.

Expecting them to brush aside NZ and South Africa. They just don't turn up against Pakistan.
Click to expand...
India will prepare a turning pitch in Chennai , Mark my words.
 
Azeem Zafar said:
We need to win 5/9 (atleast) or 6/9 (ideally) matches to qualify for the Semi-finals. I still believe that we can beat NED, SL, AFG, BAN, AUS/NZ, SA (5-6 wins) with the right selections from the available pool, better captaincy and positive mindset.
Click to expand...
Pakistan is capable of beating India , Australia , England also , but at the same time they have full potential to lose to Afghanistan and Bangladesh. This is the issue , you can never predict .
 
Justcrazy said:
Pakistan is capable of beating India , Australia , England also , but at the same time they have full potential to lose to Afghanistan and Bangladesh. This is the issue , you can never predict .
Click to expand...
I partially agree to that, Pakistan Team is highly unpredictable and can beat any good side or lose from a minnow on a given day. But beating IND or ENG during the Group Stage of this WC would almost be an upset.

They won't be favorites to win any match besides NED and every other team will think that they've got a chance against PCT, but I also wouldn't be surprised or call it a huge upset if they topple one of AUS/NZ and SA on the Indian pitches (again, with the right selection, approach and captaincy). The matches against SL, BAN, AFG can go anywhere but Pakistan will still have a better chance to get some scrappy wins if they manage to turn up with the right mindset and approach.
 
Pakistan Vs India Australia England cant win

Pakistan Vs Afghanistan Bangladesh netherland easy win 😜

Pakistan Vs South Africa New Zealand Srilanka
Result Depend on the playing 11 🤔
 
jattafridi said:
Pakistan Vs India Australia England cant win

Pakistan Vs Afghanistan Bangladesh netherland easy win 😜

Pakistan Vs South Africa New Zealand Srilanka
Result Depend on the playing 11 🤔
Click to expand...
if we get slow spinning tracks against SENA countries so i dont think they gonna win against Pakistan.

Our Iftikhar chachu will become murlitharan on such tracks. :cool:
 
Justcrazy said:
India will prepare a turning pitch in Chennai , Mark my words.
Click to expand...
Chennai already has a reputation for being a spin friendly track.

I think making more spinning tracks may not be good for India either, specifically considering their previous match on spinning track during the Asia Cup against Sri Lanka.

They hardly won that match.
 
I think only Netherlands and Bangladesh. Will get spanked against the big 3. After many near misses and chokes Afghanistan will get them. Lucky West Indies are not in the tournament as Pakistan pretty much always lose to them
 
We're winning 6/9 games inshaAllah (cant single out the oppositions) and move into SF and then you know what it depends on.
 
Confidence and expectations in the fanbase clearly at quite a low, so Pakistan can't disappoint us at least. Thanks to Naseem's injury and Fakhar's form dropping off a cliff, we will win a few good games here and there but won't reach the semis just like last time.
 
Firebat said:
Confidence and expectations in the fanbase clearly at quite a low, so Pakistan can't disappoint us at least. Thanks to Naseem's injury and Fakhar's form dropping off a cliff, we will win a few good games here and there but won't reach the semis just like last time.
Click to expand...
I am very sceptical they’ll even win 2 games if dosti XI is selected
 
I have a feeling Hasan Ali (the friend) is now going to find a way to come in post Naseems injury...and with that probability of PAK winning some matches in WC goes down
 
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