PSL has unearthed some diamonds in the rough for LOIs

[dildildalwalla]

The PSL threw up some rough diamonds for the limited overs game, Sahdab, Zaman, Mir and a few others. Couple that with olther players in their early to mid 20s (Ali, Amir, Shehzad) Pakistan has a solid crop of very talented, very skilled players. What they need now is nurturing, being given a role in the side and ultimately, the environment to develop physically, mentally and with confidence.

I for one think they should take the England approach of the last 15 years. Seelect a group of the 20 or so best cricketers in the country and build your future around them and even when they may be out of form or not performing (Ian Bell, Jimmy, Broady etc) they were kept in or around the international side and given games. The PCB must stop chopping, changing and always getting the younger guys to compete for their position without any long term plan.

Its the only way these guys can go on to become world class.

Also, cant believe I didn't mention Babar lol

Who do you guys think could be the best of the young lot?

 

[Rayyman]

Amir

 

[Arsalan Pro]

Shadab,Hasan,Fakhar,Amir,Imad,Babar and Sarfraz all are the way to go ahead.
As far as who is the best among the new talent, would have to say Shadab as he is an all round player with brilliant attitude, his bowling is just phenomenal.

 

[Arsalan Pro]

Amir

Agreed,he along with Shadab will be the best in business in coming days.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Nothing out of Pakistan really excites me
I can't remember the last time I seen a 16 year old score a hundred on debut

Nowadays it's all domestic players who have been overcooked in meaningless masala leagues

 

[Abdullah719]

Nothing out of Pakistan really excites me
I can't remember the last time I seen a 16 year old score a hundred on debut

Nowadays it's all domestic players who have been overcooked in meaningless masala leagues

Well, no 16-year-old has ever scored a 100 on debut....

Afridi scored one in his second match though.

He remains the only 16-year-old to have scored a 100 in international cricket.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Well, no 16-year-old has ever scored a 100 on debut....

Afridi scored one in his second match though.

He remains the only 16-year-old to have scored a 100 in international cricket.

You know what I'm getting at though ye
There's little raw talent left in Pakistan

 

[Abdullah719]

You know what I'm getting at though ye
There's little raw talent left in Pakistan

Don't want to get too deep into the 'talent' discussion as it's been discussed to death already.

However, it doesn't help that domestic coaches are clueless and incompetent mostly, TTFs rule the roost at FC level and then players are picked for wrong formats (case in point the horde of 70 SR batsmen in the U23 squad for the ACC Emerging Cup).

Players with natural ability must be nurtured and polished.

 

[Pete Rose]

No batsmen

 

[MMHS]

No batsmen

I actually don't agree with that. Hardly any PAK batsman these days get a chance even in squad before 25, that's for official 25. Their learning curve is over by then.

For example, already Babar & Haris are delayed by at least 3/4 years while I can name many players that had a great start, but not given any chance. Take Saud Shakil - in his 1st QA season had over 650 runs at 50 average (trust me, its close to 75 in Indian donmestic standard for the different context) & scored 2 or 3 List A hundreds in his first 4/5 matches. That's 2 years past & now that kid isn't even part of U23 cup.

Take Zeeshan Malik - I saw him scoring a stunning 87 in U19 WC against ENG & some of the drives & cuts were reminding another PAK great whose name also starts with Z. He is no where now - didn't see him in PAK cup List, despite at least 25 top players already out of that cup.

Take Saad Ali - for 4/5 years, PAK's middle order is almost one dimensional with stereo type right handers. This young man once had List A average of 85 (over 20 innings) & FC average of 45+ - he is never taken even in squad to have a look at him. That's a similar stats like our Mosaddek for last 3/4 years - Mosaddek made his debut at 19 & now permanent member of what is easily a far better ODI batting unit. Saad Ali is losing out to Kakmal & MoHa & Malik & Asif Zakir.

Take Zain Abbas - PAK is struggling big time to find an aggressive left handed opener. This guy, now at 25 had been scoring aggressively for 4/5 year - he'll get his chance, may he at 29; when he had hardly anything to learn or improve.

Last one I can point is Talat - his one innings gives indication that he has very good off side game & he has batting intelligence. He backed that with his scores in recent domestics as well. Unless, he is taken to CT, I can tell you that he'll be lost in couple of years time, because after this U23 Cup, 3/4 months there is no domestic game. MoHa failed & Fakhar was never an international quality - had Inzi not picked Asif Zakir, may be instead of that 56 last night against BD U23, Talat could have played against WI today!!!

I again say - lack of talent is still not an issue, even in batting. The system is obsolete & extremely biased. And I must say, Inzi had been my biggest disappointment - even at the standard that in total 3 players debuted under his captaincy in 4 years.

 

[MMHS]

^^Just from a real life example - with 7 times population & a better productivity, India has at least 10 to 12 times more batting resources/options for the selectors to choose from. Still, had IND played 6th batsman, in the Series decider, SS Iyer at 22 with just 25 months FC experience would have played his first Test (number of matches is higher because in a FC season Indian players play close to 20 FC matches, PAK players play 6-7 FC matches & at lest 3 times more T20). This is unthinkable, in PAK since Imran's time, despite arguably having an inferior batting resources compared to BD. I can put my house on this - on similar context, PAK selectors would have called back Shikar Dhawan, Rohit Sharma or Suresh Raina.

It's a double edged sword in PAK's case - cuts in both ways. Youngsters are not backed for their talent at early ages, rather they are expected to mature in domestics; while PAK domestics is actually inferior to the Grade cricket in Australia or Major League Cricket in UK - these young players within 2/3 years of rotting in domestics can't cover the gap when eventually they are called in National team at a mature age when learning capacity is almost finished.

And, I again say - Inzi had been horrible with his duplicity. He talks every bit of right things & does exactly opposite. In a squad of 16; 12 even 13 players are automatic choices, subject to fitness - it's only 1 or 2 spots are open for experiment & he has disappointed me big time.

 

[Pete Rose]

I actually don't agree with that. Hardly any PAK batsman these days get a chance even in squad before 25, that's for official 25. Their learning curve is over by then.

For example, already Babar & Haris are delayed by at least 3/4 years while I can name many players that had a great start, but not given any chance. Take Saud Shakil - in his 1st QA season had over 650 runs at 50 average (trust me, its close to 75 in Indian donmestic standard for the different context) & scored 2 or 3 List A hundreds in his first 4/5 matches. That's 2 years past & now that kid isn't even part of U23 cup.

Take Zeeshan Malik - I saw him scoring a stunning 87 in U19 WC against ENG & some of the drives & cuts were reminding another PAK great whose name also starts with Z. He is no where now - didn't see him in PAK cup List, despite at least 25 top players already out of that cup.

Take Saad Ali - for 4/5 years, PAK's middle order is almost one dimensional with stereo type right handers. This young man once had List A average of 85 (over 20 innings) & FC average of 45+ - he is never taken even in squad to have a look at him. That's a similar stats like our Mosaddek for last 3/4 years - Mosaddek made his debut at 19 & now permanent member of what is easily a far better ODI batting unit. Saad Ali is losing out to Kakmal & MoHa & Malik & Asif Zakir.

Take Zain Abbas - PAK is struggling big time to find an aggressive left handed opener. This guy, now at 25 had been scoring aggressively for 4/5 year - he'll get his chance, may he at 29; when he had hardly anything to learn or improve.

Last one I can point is Talat - his one innings gives indication that he has very good off side game & he has batting intelligence. He backed that with his scores in recent domestics as well. Unless, he is taken to CT, I can tell you that he'll be lost in couple of years time, because after this U23 Cup, 3/4 months there is no domestic game. MoHa failed & Fakhar was never an international quality - had Inzi not picked Asif Zakir, may be instead of that 56 last night against BD U23, Talat could have played against WI today!!!

I again say - lack of talent is still not an issue, even in batting. The system is obsolete & extremely biased. And I must say, Inzi had been my biggest disappointment - even at the standard that in total 3 players debuted under his captaincy in 4 years.

Most of these guys have faded one way or the other. I am not going argue ether talent is there or not. That's an opinion based discussion. This ridiculous sounding under 23 tournament, includes apparently some of Pakistan's best batting talent picked off their averages in the last two List A tournaments: the departmental cup and the regional cup. The leading scorers in the departmental cup racked high averages at cowardly strike rates (e.g. Imam Ul Haq). As for the regional cup, more than half the matches were rained off or too foggy to play.
I am sick of countless threads moaning about the need to find a replacement for razzaq, as if such a player will help Pakistan set a total of 300 by coming in the last ten overs because the top order has played its customarily timid brand of cricket to crawl to barely 200 in 40 overs. Time after time after time, our problem is the top order. People are dreaming about Haris Sohail and Babar Azam and maybe someday they will be close to matching the hype. But the reality is stark: Pakistan's best batting talent on performance (not basis number of threads on pp) was Sharjeel. We need aggressive openers, their averages be damned at least in the short run.

 

[Brilliance]

I actually don't agree with that. Hardly any PAK batsman these days get a chance even in squad before 25, that's for official 25. Their learning curve is over by then.

For example, already Babar & Haris are delayed by at least 3/4 years while I can name many players that had a great start, but not given any chance. Take Saud Shakil - in his 1st QA season had over 650 runs at 50 average (trust me, its close to 75 in Indian donmestic standard for the different context) & scored 2 or 3 List A hundreds in his first 4/5 matches. That's 2 years past & now that kid isn't even part of U23 cup.

Take Zeeshan Malik - I saw him scoring a stunning 87 in U19 WC against ENG & some of the drives & cuts were reminding another PAK great whose name also starts with Z. He is no where now - didn't see him in PAK cup List, despite at least 25 top players already out of that cup.

Take Saad Ali - for 4/5 years, PAK's middle order is almost one dimensional with stereo type right handers. This young man once had List A average of 85 (over 20 innings) & FC average of 45+ - he is never taken even in squad to have a look at him. That's a similar stats like our Mosaddek for last 3/4 years - Mosaddek made his debut at 19 & now permanent member of what is easily a far better ODI batting unit. Saad Ali is losing out to Kakmal & MoHa & Malik & Asif Zakir.

Take Zain Abbas - PAK is struggling big time to find an aggressive left handed opener. This guy, now at 25 had been scoring aggressively for 4/5 year - he'll get his chance, may he at 29; when he had hardly anything to learn or improve.

Last one I can point is Talat - his one innings gives indication that he has very good off side game & he has batting intelligence. He backed that with his scores in recent domestics as well. Unless, he is taken to CT, I can tell you that he'll be lost in couple of years time, because after this U23 Cup, 3/4 months there is no domestic game. MoHa failed & Fakhar was never an international quality - had Inzi not picked Asif Zakir, may be instead of that 56 last night against BD U23, Talat could have played against WI today!!!

I again say - lack of talent is still not an issue, even in batting. The system is obsolete & extremely biased. And I must say, Inzi had been my biggest disappointment - even at the standard that in total 3 players debuted under his captaincy in 4 years.

All the young players you mentioned should be inducted into the proper formats. It's time we get rid of TTF's and blood in more youngsters into the team.

Hussain Tallat, Saad Ali and Saud should immediately debut in LOI's. While as Zeeshan Malik and Saif Badar should be called up to NCA and worked upon there and given a good chance in the major tournaments in Pak . Both of them should get a full PSL next time around and selected gradually into the national team.

As far as CT is concerned select a team full of youngsters with only Sarfaraz and Malik as seniors, those who can play for Pakistan in the next WC so that they get the exposure of big tournaments at the international level.I know the result wouldn't be that good, but we aren't winning the tournament with the TTF'S either. Better to lose up with youngsters will come good eventually with experience than with TTF's .

 

[MMHS]

Most of these guys have faded one way or the other. I am not going argue ether talent is there or not. That's an opinion based discussion. This ridiculous sounding under 23 tournament, includes apparently some of Pakistan's best batting talent picked off their averages in the last two List A tournaments: the departmental cup and the regional cup. The leading scorers in the departmental cup racked high averages at cowardly strike rates (e.g. Imam Ul Haq). As for the regional cup, more than half the matches were rained off or too foggy to play.
I am sick of countless threads moaning about the need to find a replacement for razzaq, as if such a player will help Pakistan set a total of 300 by coming in the last ten overs because the top order has played its customarily timid brand of cricket to crawl to barely 200 in 40 overs. Time after time after time, our problem is the top order. People are dreaming about Haris Sohail and Babar Azam and maybe someday they will be close to matching the hype. But the reality is stark: Pakistan's best batting talent on performance (not basis number of threads on pp) was Sharjeel. We need aggressive openers, their averages be damned at least in the short run.

The SR of top order is purely due to the grooming of PAK players on those dead slow & low domestic wickets - just bring firm, solid wickets with good, consistent carry & pace; players will start to hit through the line.

The game is played as per context - most PAK wickets are still 200-250 range per score condition, hence players are playing accordingly. Even in this emerging cup, which is played on similar surface, other major teams are also not scoring much. PAK team is a reflection of the game they play in domestics or in UAE - unless the wickets changes, don't think it'll improve. Yesterday, 18 wickets went down for 262 in a T20 match - if you play most of your career on such condition, you are bound to get timid & restricted in shot making.

 

[Markhor]

I'd keep an eye out on this Pentangular Cup next month as there are a lot of young batsmen being picked for this. The seniors are in the West Indies so there's a big opportunity for the likes of Hussain Talat and Saad Ali.

We've seen the selectors take performances in televised competitions seriously and the fact the competition is being played in April means the conditions will be more batting-friendly than the One Day tournaments that were played in overcast conditions in January. Last year all the matches were played at one venue so the pitches were overused, but this time they'll be playing around the country.

I think Shadab Khan's and Hasan Ali's performances under pressure are also indicative of the PSL effect. These youngsters are getting exposure to pressure situations against international players, providing invaluable experience for when they step up to the national team.

 

[Pete Rose]

The SR of top order is purely due to the grooming of PAK players on those dead slow & low domestic wickets - just bring firm, solid wickets with good, consistent carry & pace; players will start to hit through the line.

The game is played as per context - most PAK wickets are still 200-250 range per score condition, hence players are playing accordingly. Even in this emerging cup, which is played on similar surface, other major teams are also not scoring much. PAK team is a reflection of the game they play in domestics or in UAE - unless the wickets changes, don't think it'll improve. Yesterday, 18 wickets went down for 262 in a T20 match - if you play most of your career on such condition, you are bound to get timid & restricted in shot making.

Yes I understand this context. But the fact is that there were openers in these tournaments that scored at strike rates close to a 100 and were in the top 10 scorers, but they are not selected because some are very new/young (junaid ali) while others looked disastrous when we saw them last (awais zia)...still worth giving these guys a shot.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

I'd keep an eye out on this Pentangular Cup next month as there are a lot of young batsmen being picked for this. The seniors are in the West Indies so there's a big opportunity for the likes of Hussain Talat and Saad Ali.

We've seen the selectors take performances in televised competitions seriously and the fact the competition is being played in April means the conditions will be more batting-friendly than the One Day tournaments that were played in overcast conditions in January. Last year all the matches were played at one venue so the pitches were overused, but this time they'll be playing around the country.

I think Shadab Khan's and Hasan Ali's performances under pressure are also indicative of the PSL effect. These youngsters are getting exposure to pressure situations against international players, providing invaluable experience for when they step up to the national team.

For example?

 

[Pete Rose]

I'd keep an eye out on this Pentangular Cup next month as there are a lot of young batsmen being picked for this. The seniors are in the West Indies so there's a big opportunity for the likes of Hussain Talat and Saad Ali.

We've seen the selectors take performances in televised competitions seriously and the fact the competition is being played in April means the conditions will be more batting-friendly than the One Day tournaments that were played in overcast conditions in January. Last year all the matches were played at one venue so the pitches were overused, but this time they'll be playing around the country.

I think Shadab Khan's and Hasan Ali's performances under pressure are also indicative of the PSL effect. These youngsters are getting exposure to pressure situations against international players, providing invaluable experience for when they step up to the national team.

For sure the batting conditions will be much better than the constant washouts/fogged out matches in the regional one day cup, but I honestly dont see any batsman to be excited about.

 

[shah_1]

For example?

Saif Badar
Saud Shakeel
Hussain Talat
Khushdil Shah

 

[Markhor]

For example?

Come on Chief, the squads aren't that bad.

There's Saif Badar, Saud Shakeel, Sarmad Bhatti, Hussain Talat, Saad Ali, Adil Amin, Khushdil Shah, Abdul Rehman Muzzamil and Imam-ul-Haq.

And then there's the young bowlers like Ghulam Mudasser, Usman Shinwari, Hasan Khan, Sameen Gul, all rounder Hasan Mohsin, Mohammad Irfan etc.

There's completely new faces like Rohail Nazir and Nasir Nawaz so the tournament is not as TTF heavy as in the past.

Also selectors have put pressure on the regions to select younger captains so we don't have the farcical scenario of TTFs like Sohail Tamvir skippering a side.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

No batsmen

This is what was in my mind, and with all respect to MMHS, we can only go by the batsmen we have seen. I have no idea about any undiscovered talents, but the one who was picked from the PSL, Fakhar Zaman looked as if he had quite a loose technique.

 

[Pete Rose]

Saif Badar
Saud Shakeel
Hussain Talat
Khushdil Shah

in the same order:
bowler
regional one day cup: 5 matches, one fifty, failed in every match where chasing a competitive total
looks reasonable
looks reasonable

 

[shah_1]

in the same order:
bowler
regional one day cup: 5 matches, one fifty, failed in every match where chasing a competitive total
looks reasonable
looks reasonable

How is Saif Badar a bowler?

He is a batsman, who can bowl a bit.

 

[Pete Rose]

How is Saif Badar a bowler?

He is a batsman, who can bowl a bit.

8 list a games with batting average of 10 and a bowling average of 41. You are right, he is barely a cricketer with those kind of figures

 

[shah_1]

8 list a games with batting average of 10 and a bowling average of 41. You are right, he is barely a cricketer with those kind of figures

He was top order bataman in U19 world cup, one of the highest scorer for Pakistan . He was only 17 when he played his first list A games(Pakistan cup) so these stats are misleading.

 

[shah_1]

8 list a games with batting average of 10 and a bowling average of 41. You are right, he is barely a cricketer with those kind of figures

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?251304-quot-I-feel-Saif-Badar-will-be-the-next-batting-hero-for-Pakistan-quot-Aaqib-Javed


Ian Bishop said that he is special during U19 world cup.

 

[Pete Rose]

He was top order bataman in U19 world cup, one of the highest scorer for Pakistan . He was only 17 when he played his first list A games(Pakistan cup) so these stats are misleading.

Whatever he was, he has played 8 list a games since then. Maybe there's something there that his figures don't currently reflect

 

[Syed1]

8 list a games with batting average of 10 and a bowling average of 41. You are right, he is barely a cricketer with those kind of figures

He seemed supremely talented in the u19 WC and Ian Bishop even went so far as to say "this kid will be a big star in the future".

He is a naturally aggressive batsman and doesn't believe in any of those tuk tuk shenanigans, but he is not a hack and has classy strokes.


However, I feel like since this kid can give it a fair whack he is being treated as a glorified slogger and sent at the end of the innings. Even Aaquib Javed when asked about Saif Badar said something along the lines of how he is moulding him be to be a finisher (read as: slogger). This is probably why the kid is floundering at the moment.

He needs the right mentorship and people who are actually competent to develop his game rather than "mould him into a finisher"

 

[Syed1]

This is why we are getting an army of tuk tuks because all the aggressive batsmen are shunted down the order and made into sloggers while all the tuk tuks are free to score 80 ball 50s.

 

[MMHS]

This is what was in my mind, and with all respect to MMHS, we can only go by the batsmen we have seen. I have no idea about any undiscovered talents, but the one who was picked from the PSL, Fakhar Zaman looked as if he had quite a loose technique.

That's what I am saying - PSL teams are picking players only from face value or known sources. They haven't started proper scouting yet. With 5 teams only, there is hardly any scope of playing a young batsman. On top of that, they are picking buddies - even in that scope, one kid got couple of matches & scored a good 50. If I go back 30 years - Imran (later Akram) debuted several U21 batsmen, not necessarily everyone ended as Inzi or Saeed; but because of being given constant chances, there were young players coming & going - and it looked like PAK is full of talent. It's not like that - where is Zahid Fazal, Wasim Haider, Ashfaq Ahmed, Mainul Atiq, Maqsood Rana, Muzahid Zamshed, Zahoor & Salim Elahi .... I can go on. Even if one out of such 10 players stay for 10 years, it's a great find.

PAK is simply not giving any chance to players at actually 23/24/25 even for A teams these days, whereas India & BD is plucking batsmen directly from U19 level to IPL/BPL to A team, to national team in a year or two. Look at this kid Parthiv Shaw - with 2 FC matches, he is opening for India U23. No matter how good eyes you have, one can't identify talent from a 17 years old kid & couple of good knock - but, the idea is that since he has started with a bang, take him to a higher level - if he survives that level, take him one step higher. Here PAK is doing just recycle - if not MoHa, bring KAkmal, and then justify it with lack of talent.

Regarding Fakher, it's actually isn't a surprise to me - probably a year back you can read my post on him. He doesn't look like a top order batsman who can perform at highest level. Such players are often picked by selectors who hardly bothers to do their job - that's watching lots of domestic matches & players at nets. For a batsman, first thing should be his fundamentals - stance, balance, forward defense, all-round shot making ability.... with age, experience, mentoring/training he can improve his game. But, that can't be happen after 7/8 years of lower level cricket with players stacking up cheap stats.

Unless, PAK team's average age is pulled down to 23-25 level, I don't see this changing - Inzi has to darg young layers to the pool & then see who can swim. AUS can bring a 20 years old kid to India after 10-12 FC matches - PAK is taking Asif Zakir to WI, because of his domestic performance - this'll never, never help.

Take 5/6 young players to ZIM, like IND does - what worse can happen, instead of 2-1 PAk, might lose 1-2; but that'll give an idea of bench. There is no point swapping MoHa, Malik, Kamran, Maqsood, Umar, Fawad, Zakir, Asad, Azhar ..... as bench & starter.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

I think it will be a great good to Pak cricket if all PSL teams have to select 2 mandatory emerging players in the playing x1 and 3 in squad. That means 10 for 5 teams and some of them will surely be very good.

I really believe that the notion that Pak don't have talent is false.

Channeling the talent is the problem not the talent itself.

 

[Syed1]

Imagine if PSL wasn't there someone like Shadab would never have been picked.

 

[Fantasy]

I'd keep an eye out on this Pentangular Cup next month as there are a lot of young batsmen being picked for this. The seniors are in the West Indies so there's a big opportunity for the likes of Hussain Talat and Saad Ali.

We've seen the selectors take performances in televised competitions seriously and the fact the competition is being played in April means the conditions will be more batting-friendly than the One Day tournaments that were played in overcast conditions in January. Last year all the matches were played at one venue so the pitches were overused, but this time they'll be playing around the country.

I think Shadab Khan's and Hasan Ali's performances under pressure are also indicative of the PSL effect. These youngsters are getting exposure to pressure situations against international players, providing invaluable experience for when they step up to the national team.

They won't be playing the matches all over the country this time either.SK yesterday in press conference informed that and he said this is because of expenses and logistics involved.A ll matches will be played in Rawalpindi.

Disappointed TBH.

 

[Fantasy]

Whatever he was, he has played 8 list a games since then. Maybe there's something there that his figures don't currently reflect

He actually is someone who can play the modern game unlike other Players.He hasn't cemented his place yet in any domestic team and hence he has just played 8 games.He has been made to play at No.7 or sometimes 8even IIRC,giving chances to senior guys to bat up the order.

Even in the Emirates cup he was made to bat at No.6 in both games(one game was a 10 over game and he came in when 2 or 3 balls left).They send Shahid Youseless and somebody else ahead of him,even.

He is someone who can be an ideal modern day player for Pakistan.He can play anywhere from No.4-6 in ODI team.He can accelerate when required and can up his ante by playing proper cricketing shots and not blind cross batted hacks.He is also someone who can give his team at least 4/5 overs of leg spin and he is a very good fielder.

But so far what I have seen of him is he sometimes does play a very rash shot.But I am happy to give him time and hopefully he can iron out this flaw than giving time than a typical Pakistani domestic player with SO MANY flaws.With experience he is only going to get better.

 

[Pete Rose]

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?251304-quot-I-feel-Saif-Badar-will-be-the-next-batting-hero-for-Pakistan-quot-Aaqib-Javed

Ian bishop also said we should remember the name for Carlos Braithwaite. We can't hold that against bishop. He saw something, but the rest is up to the player. Nobody gets a free pass
Ian Bishop said that he is special during U19 world cup.

Come on man, have some perspective. 8 lost a games for an average of 10 and you think he deserves a promotion to the national team and mentorship? Meanwhile there are guys out there in domestic cricket actually doing the business? Seriously ?

 

[Abdullah719]

They won't be playing the matches all over the country this time either.SK yesterday in press conference informed that and he said this is because of expenses and logistics involved.A ll matches will be played in Rawalpindi.

Disappointed TBH.

I had missed this part of his presser - just checked, he did indeed say this.

So all the match will be in Rawalpindi now.

 

[Fantasy]

I had missed this part of his presser - just checked, he did indeed say this.

So all the match will be in Rawalpindi now.

The best part about his presser yesterday was when he said we are going to have a little ceremony where we will commemorate the players and we will give away awards like Best Batsman,Beast bowler,etc and also BEST CURATOR... ) I was like seriously man? Is there one curator in the set up? [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] who do you think should get the best curator award?

 

[Pete Rose]

He actually is someone who can play the modern game unlike other Players.He hasn't cemented his place yet in any domestic team and hence he has just played 8 games.He has been made to play at No.7 or sometimes 8even IIRC,giving chances to senior guys to bat up the order.

Even in the Emirates cup he was made to bat at No.6 in both games(one game was a 10 over game and he came in when 2 or 3 balls left).They send Shahid Youseless and somebody else ahead of him,even.

He is someone who can be an ideal modern day player for Pakistan.He can play anywhere from No.4-6 in ODI team.He can accelerate when required and can up his ante by playing proper cricketing shots and not blind cross batted hacks.He is also someone who can give his team at least 4/5 overs of leg spin and he is a very good fielder.

But so far what I have seen of him is he sometimes does play a very rash shot.But I am happy to give him time and hopefully he can iron out this flaw than giving time than a typical Pakistani domestic player with SO MANY flaws.With experience he is only going to get better.

He could be a lot of things but as you suggest he has a lot to do in domestic before we see him in national colors

 

[Pete Rose]

They won't be playing the matches all over the country this time either.SK yesterday in press conference informed that and he said this is because of expenses and logistics involved.A ll matches will be played in Rawalpindi.

Disappointed TBH.

Playing in pindi alone is not the worst thing. It get hot in pakistan pretty early in the year. Pindi will be reasonable weather without being as bad as it was early in the ear when most matches were rained off

 

[MMHS]

The best part about his presser yesterday was when he said we are going to have a little ceremony where we will commemorate the players and we will give away awards like Best Batsman,Beast bowler,etc and also BEST CURATOR... ) I was like seriously man? Is there one curator in the set up? [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] who do you think should get the best curator award?

I think, still Karachi has the best wicket than anywhere else - hence despite utmost focus in Punjab & particularly greater Lahore area (& PCB being dominated by Punjabis), Karachi has produced the best batsmen from PAK.

It should be NSK Curator, if any one deserves it. However, if the Pindi curator can make the matches decent in 2nd half of the tournament, he should win it hands down. 11, 100 overs matches in 20 days at same venue -
only PCB can do that!!!!!!

 

[Fantasy]

He could be a lot of things but as you suggest he has a lot to do in domestic before we see him in national colors

He has a lot of things to do,yes but in domestics (Pakistan domestics)? A big No.We have seen how the domestic cricket of Pakistan has been churning some dross for quite a few years now.Nauman Anwar a big example.To start off just check his stance before one season(yes one season on Pakistan domestic pitches) in T20 cup where he made a century(?) and a 90 odd and then check his stance in PSL 1,you will get the answer.

Give Saif Badar a year in domestic cricket and watch him go Anwar route with zero bat lift which is imperitive for hitting as it gives you the swing,ugly crouch which limits your short making ability,grafting the ball around rather than playing on the up and using the pace of the bowler and many more things to go with fitness and fielding.I t is a dark world and these clowns in PCB should be ashamed of what they have been doing with Pak cricket and cricketers.

Now the best you can do is to make him tour with A teams,U23 teams whenever possible and maybe add him to T20 squad to give him that exposure.

 

[Pete Rose]

That's what I am saying - PSL teams are picking players only from face value or known sources. They haven't started proper scouting yet. With 5 teams only, there is hardly any scope of playing a young batsman. On top of that, they are picking buddies - even in that scope, one kid got couple of matches & scored a good 50. If I go back 30 years - Imran (later Akram) debuted several U21 batsmen, not necessarily everyone ended as Inzi or Saeed; but because of being given constant chances, there were young players coming & going - and it looked like PAK is full of talent. It's not like that - where is Zahid Fazal, Wasim Haider, Ashfaq Ahmed, Mainul Atiq, Maqsood Rana, Muzahid Zamshed, Zahoor & Salim Elahi .... I can go on. Even if one out of such 10 players stay for 10 years, it's a great find.

PAK is simply not giving any chance to players at actually 23/24/25 even for A teams these days, whereas India & BD is plucking batsmen directly from U19 level to IPL/BPL to A team, to national team in a year or two. Look at this kid Parthiv Shaw - with 2 FC matches, he is opening for India U23. No matter how good eyes you have, one can't identify talent from a 17 years old kid & couple of good knock - but, the idea is that since he has started with a bang, take him to a higher level - if he survives that level, take him one step higher. Here PAK is doing just recycle - if not MoHa, bring KAkmal, and then justify it with lack of talent.

Regarding Fakher, it's actually isn't a surprise to me - probably a year back you can read my post on him. He doesn't look like a top order batsman who can perform at highest level. Such players are often picked by selectors who hardly bothers to do their job - that's watching lots of domestic matches & players at nets. For a batsman, first thing should be his fundamentals - stance, balance, forward defense, all-round shot making ability.... with age, experience, mentoring/training he can improve his game. But, that can't be happen after 7/8 years of lower level cricket with players stacking up cheap stats.

Unless, PAK team's average age is pulled down to 23-25 level, I don't see this changing - Inzi has to darg young layers to the pool & then see who can swim. AUS can bring a 20 years old kid to India after 10-12 FC matches - PAK is taking Asif Zakir to WI, because of his domestic performance - this'll never, never help.

Take 5/6 young players to ZIM, like IND does - what worse can happen, instead of 2-1 PAk, might lose 1-2; but that'll give an idea of bench. There is no point swapping MoHa, Malik, Kamran, Maqsood, Umar, Fawad, Zakir, Asad, Azhar ..... as bench & starter.

I think the situation now is different from that under Imran's latter years of captaincy and during Akram's captaincy. Both had at least 3 to 4 solid batsmen and world class bowlers in their line up. They could afford to keep throwing in young batsmen in to the team and hoping for some luck. Please note that anwars reintroduction to Pakistan came on the back of some heavy scoring.
The current odi batting line up for Pakistan counts Malik, hafeez, and Akmal as senior batsmen and Aamir, Hassan and a few honest triers in the bowling line up. This team doesn't have the luxury of throwing in precocious 19 year olds in the batting line up. Who is going to mentor them on technique? Malik? Who is going to mentor them on mental fortitude? Hafeez? Akmal?
So I think instead of bypassing the domestic structure for top order aggressive batsmen, first try out the few batsmen that are scoring runs aggressively and then line up the younger guys thereafter. And in domestic cricket, I think inzi's team should lay down the law: no batsmen will be selected who does not close the season with a strike rate of 90.

 

[Fantasy]

Playing in pindi alone is not the worst thing. It get hot in pakistan pretty early in the year. Pindi will be reasonable weather without being as bad as it was early in the ear when most matches were rained off

I get that about weather and ideally they should be.playing their last leg of domestics at this time of year.But mate have a thought about the pitches being produced throughout the tounament and especially 2nd half of the tournament.We already know about the pitches being produced throughout the country and they have to prepare pitches for a whole tornament.I just hope this doesn't get embarrassing for PCB.

 

[MMHS]

I think the situation now is different from that under Imran's latter years of captaincy and during Akram's captaincy. Both had at least 3 to 4 solid batsmen and world class bowlers in their line up. They could afford to keep throwing in young batsmen in to the team and hoping for some luck. Please note that anwars reintroduction to Pakistan came on the back of some heavy scoring.
The current odi batting line up for Pakistan counts Malik, hafeez, and Akmal as senior batsmen and Aamir, Hassan and a few honest triers in the bowling line up. This team doesn't have the luxury of throwing in precocious 19 year olds in the batting line up. Who is going to mentor them on technique? Malik? Who is going to mentor them on mental fortitude? Hafeez? Akmal?
So I think instead of bypassing the domestic structure for top order aggressive batsmen, first try out the few batsmen that are scoring runs aggressively and then line up the younger guys thereafter. And in domestic cricket, I think inzi's team should lay down the law: no batsmen will be selected who does not close the season with a strike rate of 90.

I accept your point with one footnote - More or less, in 80s & 90s PAK was among top 3 teams - there was a standard of that generation. These are a pathetic looser bunch, ranked at 8th that too because WI has matched PAK & Zimboks are ruined by Mughabe. Bring that ZIM & WI of late 90s - PAK would have been comfortably 10th by now, trying hard to keep their nose above Afghans.

This generation doesn't deserve this free ride. Take out all those senior players apart from Sarfu & may be Malik - make a team with totally unknown 7/8 faces - I can bet, it won't go down 9th spot, where PAK comfortably stayed for a year.

Regarding aggressive batting - it can only work if the basics are correct - that's balance, proper shift of body mass, high back lift, free swing of bat, footwork, top hand drives, proper body position for horizontal bat shots etc... otherwise products won't be better than Awais Zia or Fakhar Zaman. I am telling the same thing, just bypassing the domestic stats (not completely, subjective) and being picked at right age.

 

[Citizen4]

this was also the approach of Imran Khan from the mid 80 to early 90s, then Wasim Akram also tried it in mid to late 90s.

Unfortunately, the current management doesn't trust youngsters and think that seniors are the most important part of the team.

 

[Syed1]

this was also the approach of Imran Khan from the mid 80 to early 90s, then Wasim Akram also tried it in mid to late 90s.

Unfortunately, the current management doesn't trust youngsters and think that seniors are the most important part of the team.

Kudos to Sarfaraz for dropping Hafeez and Tanvir mid series. This is something unheard of in Pakistan cricket. Give Sarfaraz a good side and he can carry us back to our glory days. I'm just thrilled that the Misbah/Azhar era is finally coming to an end.

 

[Citizen4]

Kudos to Sarfaraz for dropping Hafeez and Tanvir mid series. This is something unheard of in Pakistan cricket. Give Sarfaraz a good side and he can carry us back to our glory days. I'm just thrilled that the Misbah/Azhar era is finally coming to an end.

yes, Sarfraz is brave in making decisions, but I think he'll have to argue with Inzi and Mickey because those 2 guys love TTFs as we know. I think Sarfraz will only make the team better, and he'll drop anyone who's not performing doesn't matter if he's 30+ and a senior member of the team, no one is bigger than the team. I really hope Kamran and Hafeez doesn't get a long stay in the squad with only 1 good innings in every series

 

[Bilal7]

Inzamam's inspirational revolution. H8ers gonna hate the aloo but he gives exactly zero damns for the cry-babies here.

 

[dildildalwalla]

yes, Sarfraz is brave in making decisions, but I think he'll have to argue with Inzi and Mickey because those 2 guys love TTFs as we know. I think Sarfraz will only make the team better, and he'll drop anyone who's not performing doesn't matter if he's 30+ and a senior member of the team, no one is bigger than the team. I really hope Kamran and Hafeez doesn't get a long stay in the squad with only 1 good innings in every series

Sarfarz has made some stupid decisions tbh. Sending Imad in at 3? Wasting Zaman in a dead rubber where the new guy could have been given a few overs to get his eye in. Not using Malik as a bowler, especially when Pak may need him in practice when other spinners aren't doing so well. etc etc etc

I wonder what sort of power he wields in the dressing room because he needs to stamp his foot down on Hafeez still being around.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?251304-quot-I-feel-Saif-Badar-will-be-the-next-batting-hero-for-Pakistan-quot-Aaqib-Javed


Ian Bishop said that he is special during U19 world cup.

do you have any more information on what he said, because Bishop one of the analysts out there.

You could see the PSL that he was more impressed with Talat than Fahkar and so far he has been proved right

 

[Citizen4]

Sarfarz has made some stupid decisions tbh. Sending Imad in at 3? Wasting Zaman in a dead rubber where the new guy could have been given a few overs to get his eye in. Not using Malik as a bowler, especially when Pak may need him in practice when other spinners aren't doing so well. etc etc etc

I wonder what sort of power he wields in the dressing room because he needs to stamp his foot down on Hafeez still being around.

Mickey makes a lot of major decisions, and right now Mickey has the authority to change batting positions, because Sarfraz is new as a captain, Mickey have more power in the dressing room and tactical decisions off the field. I think this won't continue though. Rashid Latif also said it that in KK team, Sanga was only captain for a formality, all the decisions were made by Mickey, as he likes to have Veto power in the dressing room and he's stubborn as well.

 

[dildildalwalla]

Mickey makes a lot of major decisions, and right now Mickey has the authority to change batting positions, because Sarfraz is new as a captain, Mickey have more power in the dressing room and tactical decisions off the field. I think this won't continue though. Rashid Latif also said it that in KK team, Sanga was only captain for a formality, all the decisions were made by Mickey, as he likes to have Veto power in the dressing room and he's stubborn as well.

Are there any sources for this?

 

[Citizen4]

Are there any sources for this?

after the 3rd t20, it was said on a live post match show Game on hai, you can find it on youtube easily

 

[dildildalwalla]

after the 3rd t20, it was said on a live post match show Game on hai, you can find it on youtube easily

ah ok fair enough but the KK situation does not necessarily reflect Pakistan, especially considering Sarfraz is more powerful as captain as Sanga who has come over for a t20 payday