PTI, Imran Khan and this upcoming election is a joke

[PennOne]

IK with his love affair with radicalists, PTI with its nationalist and religious extremists trend, PML and PPP withering into obscurity.
As myself coming as an Ahmadi Muslim we can’t vote because we are on a separate sole electoral voters list only for ““Qadianis” which can be later used for harassment and targeted killings and to vote we have to first say we don’t believe the Holy Prophet pbuh to be our Prophet. What the hell, who does that. Almost Everyone is corrupt. Jibran Nasir says let Allah be the final judge and he is falsely identified as an Ahmadi. Country is a wreck they don’t care about water education electricity health. First Question is are you muslim, second Question is what sect are you. What kind of a third rate country does this. All you folks being patriotic over election you are participating and commenting on a farce. All the way from the person who cleans the toilet to the Supreme Court judge are morally ethically socially religiously bankcrupt but most important Question to them is are you a Muslim or not.

 

[Lonewarrior]

IK with his love affair with radicalists, PTI with its nationalist and religious extremists trend, PML and PPP withering into obscurity.
As myself coming as an Ahmadi Muslim we can’t vote because we are on a separate sole electoral voters list only for ““Qadianis” which can be later used for harassment and targeted killings and to vote we have to first say we don’t believe the Holy Prophet pbuh to be our Prophet. What the hell, who does that. Almost Everyone is corrupt. Jibran Nasir says let Allah be the final judge and he is falsely identified as an Ahmadi. Country is a wreck they don’t care about water education electricity health. First Question is are you muslim, second Question is what sect are you. What kind of a third rate country does this. All you folks being patriotic over election you are participating and commenting on a farce. All the way from the person who cleans the toilet to the Supreme Court judge are morally ethically socially religiously bankcrupt but most important Question to them is are you a Muslim or not.

the answer is,

whats the full name of pakistan ?
islamic republic of pakistan
its not a secular state. why you people forgt this all the time ?

 

[blackanhyellow]

Majority of Pakistanis dont consider Ahmedis as muslim.

However, this personal belief should not take away their rights as Pakistani citizens. They should not be specifically targeted. Hindus, Sikhs, Christians and all non-muslims should be given equal rights as every other muslim Pakistani.

 

[blackanhyellow]

the answer is,

whats the full name of pakistan ?
islamic republic of pakistan
its not a secular state. why you people forgt this all the time ?

Its a country which was meant to be majority Muslim.

However Jinnah envisioned every Pakistani to have the same rights.

Seeing the country operating his way is like spitting on his grave.

 

[IMMY69]

All of this is nonsense...

Firstly people in Pakistan are not scared of the army. They are scared of the PMLN mafia and their goons. They are extremely dangerous and have their tentacles spread across different regions, particularly in Punjab.

The religious groups are inherent to the country as it is a country founded for Muslims.

The army is no longer under the control of PMLN. Since Bajwa became chief he has remained completely neutral. PMLN’s aim to get their surrporters to creat civil commotion was to try and bring about a military coup but it failed miserably.

Out of desperation they have now changed tact since last 6 months or so and now claim that the army is behind PTI and IK which is all complete and utter nonsense.

For once we have a brave Supreme Court judge who is not scared of the PMLN goons and one that is independent and left alone by the army. The court is just impending the law. It’s duty.

Imran Khan said that if he becomes PM he will be the first one that will be held to account and thereafter it will be his party members and workers.

Anything else is just desperation stuff from the opposition and it’s corrupt members.

 

[Mamoon]

All of this is nonsense...

Firstly people in Pakistan are not scared of the army. They are scared of the PMLN mafia and their goons. They are extremely dangerous and have their tentacles spread across different regions, particularly in Punjab.

The religious groups are inherent to the country as it is a country founded for Muslims.

The army is no longer under the control of PMLN. Since Bajwa became chief he has remained completely neutral. PMLN’s aim to get their surrporters to creat civil commotion was to try and bring about a military coup but it failed miserably.

Out of desperation they have now changed tact since last 6 months or so and now claim that the army is behind PTI and IK which is all complete and utter nonsense.

For once we have a brave Supreme Court judge who is not scared of the PMLN goons and one that is independent and left alone by the army. The court is just impending the law. It’s duty.

Imran Khan said that if he becomes PM he will be the first one that will be held to account and thereafter it will be his party members and workers.

Anything else is just desperation stuff from the opposition and it’s corrupt members.

Bajwa might be neutral, but ISI is not.

 

[Mamoon]

the answer is,

whats the full name of pakistan ?
islamic republic of pakistan
its not a secular state. why you people forgt this all the time ?

Religious state doesn’t mean minorities have to be oppressed.

Jinnah never wanted to create Pakistan, but once he was forced into it, he was pretty clear about the way minorities will be treated in the country (ignoring his blunders in East Pakistan).

The reasons why minorities are oppressed in Pakistan are due to two main factors: (1) military establishment thrives on chaos (2) mob justice mentality.

In any country, an army cannot be the biggest player if peace is maintained both internally and externally.

If Pakistan developed cordial relationships with India and Afghanistan, and is able to get rid of internal extremist mentalities, the military will lose its influence.

That is why they have backed militants and have funded extremists who have corrupted the minds of our people, which is why we witness mob justice, i.e. people taking the law into their own hand because of their radical, intolerant mindset.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Religious state doesn’t mean minorities have to be oppressed.

Jinnah never wanted to create Pakistan, but once he was forced into it, he was pretty clear about the way minorities will be treated in the country (ignoring his blunders in East Pakistan).

The reasons why minorities are oppressed in Pakistan are due to two main factors: (1) military establishment thrives on chaos (2) mob justice mentality.

In any country, an army cannot be the biggest player if peace is maintained both internally and externally.

If Pakistan developed cordial relationships with India and Afghanistan, and is able to get rid of internal extremist mentalities, the military will lose its influence.

That is why they have backed militants and have funded extremists who have corrupted the minds of our people, which is why we witness mob justice, i.e. people taking the law into their own hand because of their radical, intolerant mindset.

if minority wants to change the law thn they have to vote for it.
i see no one is shouting here in minority community about voting. only ahmadis.

 

[Sirris]

Followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed calling themselves "Ahmadi Muslims" holds as much legitimacy as if followers of Islam started identifying themselves as "Islamic Christians".

Therfore Ahmadi shouldn't complain about foul play when they themselves are intentionally playing with words to begin with.

 

[IMMY69]

Religious state doesn’t mean minorities have to be oppressed.

Jinnah never wanted to create Pakistan, but once he was forced into it, he was pretty clear about the way minorities will be treated in the country (ignoring his blunders in East Pakistan).

The reasons why minorities are oppressed in Pakistan are due to two main factors: (1) military establishment thrives on chaos (2) mob justice mentality.

In any country, an army cannot be the biggest player if peace is maintained both internally and externally.

If Pakistan developed cordial relationships with India and Afghanistan, and is able to get rid of internal extremist mentalities, the military will lose its influence.

That is why they have backed militants and have funded extremists who have corrupted the minds of our people, which is why we witness mob justice, i.e. people taking the law into their own hand because of their radical, intolerant mindset.

The only leader and Party that can try to bring about minority rights is IK and the PTI.

If ever there was a chance do it is now under Imran Khan. I know this to be true. FACT.

 

[slipcatch]

Agree with you.

Your beliefs should not and does not negate the fact you are Pakistani and you have as much right to cast your vote as others in Pakistan.

But you need to understand, the solution is political. Things won't change over night and you can't expect PML-N, PPP, or MQM to change it.

It has to start with getting economy better, bring down the poverty rate, equal laws. And then the biggest and most important, Improve the education, equal education for every kid in Pakistan then you might be able to change this 'racist' law.

Currently, the only party I see putting us on that course is PTI.

 

[IMMY69]

Agree with you.

Your beliefs should not and does not negate the fact you are Pakistani and you have as much right to cast your vote as others in Pakistan.

But you need to understand, the solution is political. Things won't change over night and you can't expect PML-N, PPP, or MQM to change it.

It has to start with getting economy better, bring down the poverty rate, equal laws. And then the biggest and most important, Improve the education, equal education for every kid in Pakistan then you might be able to change this 'racist' law.

Currently, the only party I see putting us on that course is PTI.

You are absolutely right.. Educating the masses is what will change the course of the country.

 

[Mamoon]

if minority wants to change the law thn they have to vote for it.
i see no one is shouting here in minority community about voting. only ahmadis.

Minorities usually don’t care about voting rights because they don’t feel party of the country, and that is because their life is so cheap in this country.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=491]IMMY69[/MENTION] [MENTION=147221]slipcatch[/MENTION]

For PTI to change the fate of minorities, Imran Khan will have to defy the military, and if he tries to do that, his fate will be the same as Nawaz Sharif’s.

As long as the military runs the show, minority rights will never be respected.

 

[slipcatch]

[MENTION=491]IMMY69[/MENTION] [MENTION=147221]slipcatch[/MENTION]

For PTI to change the fate of minorities, Imran Khan will have to defy the military, and if he tries to do that, his fate will be the same as Nawaz Sharif’s.

As long as the military runs the show, minority rights will never be respected.

If you believe, turn the page and stop military influence over night then you are kidding yourself . Like I have said, solution is political and it can only be achieve once masses are educated.

Just an example, PML-N in their 3rd election campaign that they will turn Lahore into Paris, poverty will decrease and turn Pakistan into the best economy in Asia, on listening to that uneducated masses started to do Bhangra on the street, again.

 

[Lonewarrior]

any*

 

[pakistan cricket fan]

Everyday i have heard some new things this time The great Mohammad Ail Jinnah never wanted to create Pakistan

 

[ManFan]

Everyday i have heard some new things this time The great Mohammad Ail Jinnah never wanted to create Pakistan

I saw a gem on here that Allama Iqbal did not have much to do with the Allahabad Address.

 

[Loralai]

IK with his love affair with radicalists, PTI with its nationalist and religious extremists trend, PML and PPP withering into obscurity.
As myself coming as an Ahmadi Muslim we can’t vote because we are on a separate sole electoral voters list only for ““Qadianis” which can be later used for harassment and targeted killings and to vote we have to first say we don’t believe the Holy Prophet pbuh to be our Prophet. What the hell, who does that. Almost Everyone is corrupt. Jibran Nasir says let Allah be the final judge and he is falsely identified as an Ahmadi. Country is a wreck they don’t care about water education electricity health. First Question is are you muslim, second Question is what sect are you. What kind of a third rate country does this. All you folks being patriotic over election you are participating and commenting on a farce. All the way from the person who cleans the toilet to the Supreme Court judge are morally ethically socially religiously bankcrupt but most important Question to them is are you a Muslim or not.

You are very right and I share your concerns.

Jibran Nasir is being targeted with violence whereas security is being given to Khadim Rizvi and Ramzan Mengal. Situation is disgusting. Is this the Pakistan we want?

We have failed our minorities but happy to point our fingers at other countries and their treatment of Muslims.

 

[yasir]

If you believe, turn the page and stop military influence over night then you are kidding yourself . Like I have said, solution is political and it can only be achieve once masses are educated.

Just an example, PML-N in their 3rd election campaign that they will turn Lahore into Paris, poverty will decrease and turn Pakistan into the best economy in Asia, on listening to that uneducated masses started to do Bhangra on the street, again.

I disagree, When people talk about education, they have some hypothetical plan to make 150M people graduate and then and only they we should talk about core and fundamental problems of the state. Nobody has comeup with that master plan yet, should we wait for another 100 years

In this election the biggest party who has engineered everything is Army, but nobody is allowed to talk about them in print, TV, social or local Jilsas... Now this is what we should demand to change, allow people freedom of speech on important issues. People will get educated themselves. On the other there are record number of Extremist/Terrorist organization candidates are running in general election, since they help the cause of Military...First and foremost you have to talk about the freedom of speech, such a heavy hand of military censorship should not be acceptable. How the hell you can educated the masses in this environment, Democracy works on the basis of fundamental principle of "informed public", its not about education, its about freedom of speech. This time Pakistan's election has break all records to curbing freedom of speech of modern times. No amount of education (I honestly don't what that means in this ENV), can solve this problem...First come first, you have to get the right to criticized the Establishment

 

[slipcatch]

I disagree, When people talk about education, they have some hypothetical plan to make 150M people graduate and then and only they we should talk about core and fundamental problems of the state. Nobody has comeup with that master plan yet, should we wait for another 100 years

In this election the biggest party who has engineered everything is Army, but nobody is allowed to talk about them in print, TV, social or local Jilsas... Now this is what we should demand to change, allow people freedom of speech on important issues. People will get educated themselves. On the other there are record number of Extremist/Terrorist organization candidates are running in general election, since they help the cause of Military...First and foremost you have to talk about the freedom of speech, such a heavy hand of military censorship should not be acceptable. How the hell you can educated the masses in this environment, Democracy works on the basis of fundamental principle of "informed public", its not about education, its about freedom of speech. This time Pakistan's election has break all records to curbing freedom of speech of modern times. No amount of education (I honestly don't what that means in this ENV), can solve this problem...First come first, you have to get the right to criticized the Establishment

Your argument can be defeated with one word again. Education.

Let me highlight the quote from my post that you ignored. Again, Education, which translate into understanding the situation with open mind.

'Just an example, PML-N in their 3rd election campaign that they will turn Lahore into Paris, poverty will decrease and turn Pakistan into the best economy in Asia, on listening to that uneducated masses started to do Bhangra on the street, again.'

Stop spreading this delusional that no one has right to criticized Army. If it was true then GHQ would have not held press conference to dismiss any involvement, they did that because, in Media, they were criticized.

 

[InziRules]

You are very right and I share your concerns.

Jibran Nasir is being targeted with violence whereas security is being given to Khadim Rizvi and Ramzan Mengal. Situation is disgusting. Is this the Pakistan we want?

We have failed our minorities but happy to point our fingers at other countries and their treatment of Muslims.

Jibran was warned not to spread RAW influence. He didn't listen.

 

[Loralai]

Jibran was warned not to spread RAW influence. He didn't listen.

Please explain what you mean by RAW influence and how Jibran is spreading it?

 

[Loralai]

Your argument can be defeated with one word again. Education.

Let me highlight the quote from my post that you ignored. Again, Education, which translate into understanding the situation with open mind.

'Just an example, PML-N in their 3rd election campaign that they will turn Lahore into Paris, poverty will decrease and turn Pakistan into the best economy in Asia, on listening to that uneducated masses started to do Bhangra on the street, again.'

Stop spreading this delusional that no one has right to criticized Army. If it was true then GHQ would have not held press conference to dismiss any involvement, they did that because, in Media, they were criticized.

GHQ are the ultimate kingmakers in our political process. They have more power than anyone else. It is better to accept this fact rather than pretend it isn't the case. Embarrassing really when you think about the mess they have caused.

 

[pakistan cricket fan]

I saw a gem on here that Allama Iqbal did not have much to do with the Allahabad Address.

They say you learn something new everyday

 

[pakistan cricket fan]

Please explain what you mean by RAW influence and how Jibran is spreading it?

Ok one question for you sinds one of the big problem is terrorist crossing from Afganistan to attack Pakistani civilians and security forces and then going back there.
Are you against to fence Durand line and other borders with Afganistan?

 

[Loralai]

Ok one question for you sinds one of the big problem is terrorist crossing from Afganistan to attack Pakistani civilians and security forces and then going back there.
Are you against to fence Durand line and other borders with Afganistan?

Yes because fencing Durand line will not fix our problems. Better to remove terrorist groups operating inside Pakistan which have the tacit support of our military (eg Lashker e Jhangvi) which are responsible for sectarian violence and stop extremists from standing in elections like Ramzan Mengal, TLYR, etc.

 

[pakistan cricket fan]

[MENTION=142317]Loralai[/MENTION] When did i say they are good people please hang all of them Ramzan Mengel, Khadam Hussain Rizvi everyone.
And i did say one of problem not the only problem.
Again will fencing durand line fix ONE off our problem yess or no?

 

[slipcatch]

GHQ are the ultimate kingmakers in our political process. They have more power than anyone else. It is better to accept this fact rather than pretend it isn't the case. Embarrassing really when you think about the mess they have caused.

Has GHQ ever stopped government from making efficient hospital or increasing the efficiency of the existing hospitals?

Has GHQ ever stopped government from making schools that are for everyone or making existing school's better?

Has GHQ ever stopped government to solve Pakistan's water issues?

Has GHQ ever stopped government to fix Pakistan's electric issues?

Has GHQ ever stopped from getting investors from outside of Pakistan?

Has PML-N or PPP every said that it was GHQ who stopped us from doing all of the above? No! because if they did it would have been on their tongue 24/7.

What is more embarrassing is that people are failing to understand that without the GHQ help things will not change and you can't just ask GHQ to role over so PML-N and PPP can do whatever they wish too, for things to change GHQ has to be involved it is naive to believe otherwise.

I am not saying GHQ doesn't hold any blame, they do, they are part of Pakistan.

 

[yasir]

Your argument can be defeated with one word again. Education.

Let me highlight the quote from my post that you ignored. Again, Education, which translate into understanding the situation with open mind.

'Just an example, PML-N in their 3rd election campaign that they will turn Lahore into Paris, poverty will decrease and turn Pakistan into the best economy in Asia, on listening to that uneducated masses started to do Bhangra on the street, again.'

Stop spreading this delusional that no one has right to criticized Army. If it was true then GHQ would have not held press conference to dismiss any involvement, they did that because, in Media, they were criticized.

Some Nuggets from PEMRA Code of Conduct

Complete code of conduct can be found at http://58.65.182.183/pemra/pemgov/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Code_of_Conduct.pdf

They have made a photocopy of the doc, rather than a electronic document, its hard to copy paste the text. In this day and age, that is really poor.

Anyway, interesting definition of "Propaganda"

“Propaganda” means dissemination of any doctrine, rumor or selective information to promote one sided views on any controversial issue, except in public interest, and of public importance

Ref: Section 2(j)

Who is deciding what is in public interest? - I don't have to spell it out, who are they. So somebody is allowed to have propaganda (essentially false information, one sided view )


Another one, And this is one of the fundamental principle of censorship aka PEMRA code of conduct, since its under section 3. These are some of those reason, why PEMRA came into existence back in 2002 :

Contains aspersions against the judiciary or armed forces of Pakistan
Ref: Section 3(j)

Well those two are the biggest players in this election, they can use the govt machinery, the private channels, all other media to propagate all they want. Not just propagate but punish others, but nobody is allowed to say something that can damage their reputation... So much for the freedom of speech...

BTW: Do you want to me spell the history of Army and judiciary in politics and corruption in last 40 years?? - Their fingerprints are everywhere

 

[Loralai]

@Lorarai When did i say they are good people please hang all of them Ramzan Mengel, Khadam Hussain Rizvi everyone.
And i did say one of problem not the only problem.
Again will fencing durand line fix ONE off our problem yess or no?

I really don't think fencing our border will fix our problems. We need to reach out to Afghanistan and stop meddling in their internal affairs. We have the capacity to build a better relationship with them and this should be our long term gain.

Remember people in these regions are used to a porous border and this has a great impact on trade, finance, family and friendships.

If we take the step of dealing with the Afghan Taliban it will make a great difference to terrorists in Pakistan too.

 

[slipcatch]

Some Nuggets from PEMRA Code of Conduct

Complete code of conduct can be found at http://58.65.182.183/pemra/pemgov/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Code_of_Conduct.pdf

They have made a photocopy of the doc, rather than a electronic document, its hard to copy paste the text. In this day and age, that is really poor.

Anyway, interesting definition of "Propaganda"



Who is deciding what is in public interest? - I don't have to spell it out, who are they. So somebody is allowed to have propaganda (essentially false information, one sided view )


Another one, And this is one of the fundamental principle of censorship aka PEMRA code of conduct, since its under section 3. These are some of those reason, why PEMRA came into existence back in 2002 :




Well those two are the biggest players in this election, they can use the govt machinery, the private channels, all other media to propagate all they want. Not just propagate but punish others, but nobody is allowed to say something that can damage their reputation... So much for the freedom of speech...

BTW: Do you want to me spell the history of Army and judiciary in politics and corruption in last 40 years?? - Their fingerprints are everywhere

Not denying the the Army is implicit in corruption. But i am also not naive to believe that PML-N and PPP will be better for Pakistan.

No country has total freedom, let's not be naive again.

'Just an example, PML-N in their 3rd election campaign that they will turn Lahore into Paris, poverty will decrease and turn Pakistan into the best economy in Asia, on listening to that uneducated masses started to do Bhangra on the street, again.

 

[pakistan cricket fan]

I really don't think fencing our border will fix our problems. We need to reach out to Afghanistan and stop meddling in their internal affairs. We have the capacity to build a better relationship with them and this should be our long term gain.

Remember people in these regions are used to a porous border and this has a great impact on trade, finance, family and friendships.

If we take the step of dealing with the Afghan Taliban it will make a great difference to terrorists in Pakistan too.

I am sorry dont agree with this thought porous border Afganistan can not even give security to its own citizens so the Fencing will be better for both country's. [MENTION=142451]Mian[/MENTION] [MENTION=1269]Bewal Express[/MENTION]

 

[yasir]

Not denying the the Army is implicit in corruption. But i am also not naive to believe that PML-N and PPP will be better for Pakistan.

No country has total freedom, let's not be naive again.

'Just an example, PML-N in their 3rd election campaign that they will turn Lahore into Paris, poverty will decrease and turn Pakistan into the best economy in Asia, on listening to that uneducated masses started to do Bhangra on the street, again.

Most Pakistanis failed to comprehend a simple fact that NS did not come on his own, Army brought him to national stage, this lota cracy was non existent in politics back in 70s, Army is responsible for that culture of corruption. Now they are calling them electables, they are exact same thing, actually same people, engineered the same way...

Politicians have to pay for the crime(many times pretty heavy price, without even doing anything), they have to face constant criticism, overthrown, manipulated by lotas(who are engineered by you know who) and eventually get murdered, 2 of last three most popular leaders of the country in last 4 decades had been killed, third one is now behind the bar...You fail to understand that Army is a much bigger player in these crimes, and they have to face no consequences...Keep Persecuting Politicians will do exactly what?? - When Army establishment is doing exactly what they did back in 1980s. When will they have to face the music?? - Why accountability is one way street?? :

 

[Bewal Express]

I am sorry dont agree with this thought porous border Afganistan can not even give security to its own citizens so the Fencing will be better for both country's. [MENTION=142451]Mian[/MENTION] [MENTION=1269]Bewal Express[/MENTION]

My own view is that in the long term we need to work towards a stable and peaceful Afg and if its practicable look to have a secure border, its in our interest as well as it being the right thing to bring peace to Afg. If they are unstable, we will also stay as such.

 

[pakistan cricket fan]

My own view is that in the long term we need to work towards a stable and peaceful Afg and if its practicable look to have a secure border, its in our interest as well as it being the right thing to bring peace to Afg. If they are unstable, we will also stay as such.

I agree with you on this but some off out pushtun brothers dont want to fence durund line i dont know why because it is better for both country's.

 

[Loralai]

I agree with you on this but some off out pushtun brothers dont want to fence durund line i dont know why because it is better for both country's.

Maybe our Pashtun brothers have a better understanding of the ground realities of the situation?

Maybe our Pashtun brothers have suffered terror and violence for countless years and understand that the roots of terror groups were not planted by Afghanistan but fostered our own army for its own purposes in Afghanistan?

Maybe we could learn from our Pashtun and Baloch brothers instead of assuming we know what is best for them?
[MENTION=5869]yasir[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=101697]LegendInzi[/MENTION] [MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION]

 

[pakistan cricket fan]

Maybe our Pashtun brothers have a better understanding of the ground realities of the situation?

Maybe our Pashtun brothers have suffered terror and violence for countless years and understand that the roots of terror groups were not planted by Afghanistan but fostered our own army for its own purposes in Afghanistan?

Maybe we could learn from our Pashtun and Baloch brothers instead of assuming we know what is best for them?
[MENTION=5869]yasir[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=101697]LegendInzi[/MENTION] [MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION]

Or mayby some people love Afganistan more Pakistan that why they against this fence but no worries the work is being a done for me Pakistan comes first not this rubbish Pushtun, Punjabi, Sindhi, Balochi, Urdu speaking, Saraiki. [MENTION=142451]Mian[/MENTION] [MENTION=1269]Bewal Express[/MENTION] [MENTION=21699]Pakpak[/MENTION]

 

[DRsohail]

I agree with you on this but some off out pushtun brothers dont want to fence durund line i dont know why because it is better for both country's.

Who say Pashtun brothers do not want fence.. you can’t generalise few persons stamtements dear.

 

[pakistan cricket fan]

Who say Pashtun brothers do not want fence.. you can’t generalise few persons stamtements dear.

No my dear Bhaijaan i said not all but some off our Pushtun brothers.

 

[DRsohail]

Maybe our Pashtun brothers have a better understanding of the ground realities of the situation?

Maybe our Pashtun brothers have suffered terror and violence for countless years and understand that the roots of terror groups were not planted by Afghanistan but fostered our own army for its own purposes in Afghanistan?

Maybe we could learn from our Pashtun and Baloch brothers instead of assuming we know what is best for them?
[MENTION=5869]yasir[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=101697]LegendInzi[/MENTION] [MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION]

Being a hardcore supporter of pti mY thinking process related to peace and issue with Afghanistan are different and it may be the reason I am not expecting that much from Imran khan regarding peace in Fata and kpk. I am of the opinion that unless and utill we do not stop interfering Afghanistan affairs and not become sincere in bringing peace to FATA wel will suffer. I hope the pakistani governments and security agencies understand this and put sincere efforts. But I am not optimistic. Fence will solve few problems but it is like 50 50 and it has its own drawbacks as well whic [MENTION=142317]Loralai[/MENTION] knows better.

 

[Bewal Express]

It is a very complex situation with the Inds have a foot in the Afg door and this makes our millitary nervous as fighting on 2 fronts in the worst case scenario is incredibly difficult. But i would urge our policy makers to bring together the Taliban and the Afg govt for peace talks and long term peace in Afg. If we are sincere as muslims then it is our duty to bring peace to Afg.

 

[moghul]

IK with his love affair with radicalists, PTI with its nationalist and religious extremists trend, PML and PPP withering into obscurity.
As myself coming as an Ahmadi Muslim we can’t vote because we are on a separate sole electoral voters list only for ““Qadianis” which can be later used for harassment and targeted killings and to vote we have to first say we don’t believe the Holy Prophet pbuh to be our Prophet. What the hell, who does that. Almost Everyone is corrupt. Jibran Nasir says let Allah be the final judge and he is falsely identified as an Ahmadi. Country is a wreck they don’t care about water education electricity health. First Question is are you muslim, second Question is what sect are you. What kind of a third rate country does this. All you folks being patriotic over election you are participating and commenting on a farce. All the way from the person who cleans the toilet to the Supreme Court judge are morally ethically socially religiously bankcrupt but most important Question to them is are you a Muslim or not.

Its not IK's fault. Like him or not he is coming. Also right or wrong, Ahmadis were declared non-muslim by the parliament in Bhutto's era. Its in constitution. Although I thinks it stupidity but its a fact.

 

[Loralai]

Being a hardcore supporter of pti mY thinking process related to peace and issue with Afghanistan are different and it may be the reason I am not expecting that much from Imran khan regarding peace in Fata and kpk. I am of the opinion that unless and utill we do not stop interfering Afghanistan affairs and not become sincere in bringing peace to FATA wel will suffer. I hope the pakistani governments and security agencies understand this and put sincere efforts. But I am not optimistic. Fence will solve few problems but it is like 50 50 and it has its own drawbacks as well whic [MENTION=142317]Loralai[/MENTION] knows better.

100% agree. Until this happens we cannot move forward.

 

[Mamoon]

Maybe our Pashtun brothers have a better understanding of the ground realities of the situation?

Maybe our Pashtun brothers have suffered terror and violence for countless years and understand that the roots of terror groups were not planted by Afghanistan but fostered our own army for its own purposes in Afghanistan?

Maybe we could learn from our Pashtun and Baloch brothers instead of assuming we know what is best for them?
[MENTION=5869]yasir[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=101697]LegendInzi[/MENTION] [MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION]

In Afghanistan, we created a monster for a strategic alliance that will go down as one of our biggest foreign policy mistake ever. The chickens always come home to roost, it is inevitable.

The situation is out of hand now, and in the short-term, we have little choice but to seal the Afghan border. However, with the increased awareness among the youth and the rise of social media, I can see the influence of the military dwindling over the next 20-30 years. When that happens, our relations with India and Afghanistan will definitely improve.

 

[Mamoon]

If you believe, turn the page and stop military influence over night then you are kidding yourself . Like I have said, solution is political and it can only be achieve once masses are educated.

Just an example, PML-N in their 3rd election campaign that they will turn Lahore into Paris, poverty will decrease and turn Pakistan into the best economy in Asia, on listening to that uneducated masses started to do Bhangra on the street, again.

I agree with you that education will make a difference. As a majority, we are still ignorant about the influence and the bullying of the military, but slowly and gradually, we are becoming more aware.

Social media is also playing a positive role, which is why in a few decades, I can see the military being reduced to the borders and guarding the nation which is their only job.

 

[slipcatch]

I agree with you that education will make a difference. As a majority, we are still ignorant about the influence and the bullying of the military, but slowly and gradually, we are becoming more aware.

Social media is also playing a positive role, which is why in a few decades, I can see the military being reduced to the borders and guarding the nation which is their only job.

This.

Most want over night change, it just won't and can't happen. And those who want over night change are just naive.

I do not fully agree with IK but one thing is for sure that he has made people more aware about their rights and how the government should be.

A third political force isn't going to hurt Pakistan, rather it is good for Pakistan.

 

[JaDed]

Everyday i have heard some new things this time The great Mohammad Ail Jinnah never wanted to create Pakistan

Initially he didn't,which is true when was member of Congress.

 

[Loralai]

Or mayby some people love Afganistan more Pakistan that why they against this fence but no worries the work is being a done for me Pakistan comes first not this rubbish Pushtun, Punjabi, Sindhi, Balochi, Urdu speaking, Saraiki. [MENTION=142451]Mian[/MENTION] [MENTION=1269]Bewal Express[/MENTION] [MENTION=21699]Pakpak[/MENTION]

It isn't about loving Afghanistan, its about being realistic about the challenges the country faces and responding to them in a measured and sensible manner. We can't just pretend that ethnic identities are irrelevant. It is easy to talk about Pakistan coming first, but try to think about it from perspective of Pashtuns in FATA or the Baloch communities who have long been ignored by the state.

 

[DRsohail]

In Afghanistan, we created a monster for a strategic alliance that will go down as one of our biggest foreign policy mistake ever. The chickens always come home to roost, it is inevitable.

The situation is out of hand now, and in the short-term, we have little choice but to seal the Afghan border. However, with the increased awareness among the youth and the rise of social media, I can see the influence of the military dwindling over the next 20-30 years. When that happens, our relations with India and Afghanistan will definitely improve.

AGreed.I like this Mamoon.Fair analysis.

 

[DRsohail]

I agree with you that education will make a difference. As a majority, we are still ignorant about the influence and the bullying of the military, but slowly and gradually, we are becoming more aware.

Social media is also playing a positive role, which is why in a few decades, I can see the military being reduced to the borders and guarding the nation which is their only job.

Again i agree.....i can see a major change in next 10 years.

 

[DRsohail]

Very fair and good anlysiis going on on this thread,Love it when i see people understanding the core issue.

 

[slipcatch]

Being a hardcore supporter of pti mY thinking process related to peace and issue with Afghanistan are different and it may be the reason I am not expecting that much from Imran khan regarding peace in Fata and kpk. I am of the opinion that unless and utill we do not stop interfering Afghanistan affairs and not become sincere in bringing peace to FATA wel will suffer. I hope the pakistani governments and security agencies understand this and put sincere efforts. But I am not optimistic. Fence will solve few problems but it is like 50 50 and it has its own drawbacks as well whic [MENTION=142317]Loralai[/MENTION] knows better.

Dr Sahib, don't you think it is already too late.

Pakistan just can't give up trying to create a Pakistani friendly government in Afghanistan.

Let's say tomorrow Pakistan completely stop all kind of activity in Afghanistan and try to seal it's border as much as they can, will that prevent forces from Afghanistan attacking Pakistan? I highly doubt it.

We can go back in history and just blame Pakistan for the current situation in Afghanistan, that would be unfair but lets put most of the blame on Pakistan, but the current situation is such that Pakistan can't just stop from trying to influence a government in Afghanistan that is friendly to Pakistan.

The only way for Pakistan to be out of this mess is to become economically strong as well military strong on its border with Afghanistan.

 

[DRsohail]

Dr Sahib, don't you think it is already too late.

Pakistan just can't give up trying to create a Pakistani friendly government in Afghanistan.

Let's say tomorrow Pakistan completely stop all kind of activity in Afghanistan and try to seal it's border as much as they can, will that prevent forces from Afghanistan attacking Pakistan? I highly doubt it.

We can go back in history and just blame Pakistan for the current situation in Afghanistan, that would be unfair but lets put most of the blame on Pakistan, but the current situation is such that Pakistan can't just stop from trying to influence a government in Afghanistan that is friendly to Pakistan.

The only way for Pakistan to be out of this mess is to become economically strong as well military strong on its border with Afghanistan.

Pakistan can slowly withdraw and make the border seal/We are paying for the wrong decision we made and i am dont think so we have learned the lesson.

 

[Loralai]

Dr Sahib, don't you think it is already too late.

Pakistan just can't give up trying to create a Pakistani friendly government in Afghanistan.

Let's say tomorrow Pakistan completely stop all kind of activity in Afghanistan and try to seal it's border as much as they can, will that prevent forces from Afghanistan attacking Pakistan? I highly doubt it.

We can go back in history and just blame Pakistan for the current situation in Afghanistan, that would be unfair but lets put most of the blame on Pakistan, but the current situation is such that Pakistan can't just stop from trying to influence a government in Afghanistan that is friendly to Pakistan.

The only way for Pakistan to be out of this mess is to become economically strong as well military strong on its border with Afghanistan.

First step must be to call Taliban and Afghan government to negotiating table. Pakistan must broker a peace agreement between the two and encourage the withdrawal of the Taliban from terrorism and must act as a guarantor for this agreement.

Next step must be to clamp down on all terrorist groups operating in Balochistan, KP and FATA. Unfortunately our establishment supports a lot of these groups so we need for this to change asap.

Without these two key steps I do not see things improving in this region.

 

[pakistan cricket fan]

It isn't about loving Afghanistan, its about being realistic about the challenges the country faces and responding to them in a measured and sensible manner. We can't just pretend that ethnic identities are irrelevant. It is easy to talk about Pakistan coming first, but try to think about it from perspective of Pashtuns in FATA or the Baloch communities who have long been ignored by the state.

I agree everyone has te get there right I hope people of Fata and Balochistan get it In shaa allah.

 

[pakistan cricket fan]

Initially he didn't,which is true when was member of Congress.

Did he say he NEVER wanted Pakistan?