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PTI's Tsunami March on 14th August [Mega Thread]

I agree we should expect higher standards from the PTI. There is also no doubt that the PTI will attract crooks but the important thing is that the guys at the top should be clean and have the moral authority to deal with crime. Both the PPP and PML are family businesses setup to make money( in most countries they call them the mafia).
 
PML-N rulers are proper paindoos with no educated people in the ranks

Atleast PPP has a lot of intellectuals and educated people who can talk and write with class and civility

Paindoos bring billion-dollars energy projects in Pakistan while intellectuals and educated people loot billion-dollars in Pakistan.

I don't judge them that way. They are successful in business empire [in Pakistan and overseas] which shows they are skillful, hardworker and educated in term of business.
 
Paindoos bring billion-dollars energy projects in Pakistan while intellectuals and educated people loot billion-dollars in Pakistan.

I don't judge them that way. They are successful in business empire [in Pakistan and overseas] which shows they are skillful, hardworker and educated in term of business.

Malik sahib kahen ap Butt to nahin hain ? :afridi
 
Saleem Saafi of Geo : Pressure from some Estate Institutions on both parties and Talks started on the following formula:

  • Shahbaz Sharif may step down but someone else from PML (N) will take over the charge
  • Government tenure will be 4 years instead of 5
  • Election reforms commitment

that should be the thin end of the wedge

get rid of the opposition opening batsmen and expose the brittle middle order to the new ball and seaming conditions

the start of so many Pakistan batting collapses
 
Paindoos bring billion-dollars energy projects in Pakistan while intellectuals and educated people loot billion-dollars in Pakistan.

I don't judge them that way. They are successful in business empire [in Pakistan and overseas] which shows they are skillful, hardworker and educated in term of business.


shows how deranged you are..."skillful","hardworker"...surely you mean for themselves and their families, not for the people of Pakistan that they are actually elected for and given the free hand they have
 
shows how deranged you are..."skillful","hardworker"...surely you mean for themselves and their families, not for the people of Pakistan that they are actually elected for and given the free hand they have

They are businessmen, not charitymen.

That being said, PMLN has already brought several billion-dollars energy projects in Pakistan. In a few years, those will be operational which will start to normalize Pakistan's economy that will help reduction of poverty as well as provide limitless employment opportunities, not to mention 24 hours electricity powers will be provided.

The situation will get better, Insha Allah. The nation cannot change overnight. It takes time, but good news after Musharraf and Zardari failed to initiate energy projects has been launched by PMLN. It is matter of time [few years depending on work's progress] that the economy will be stable like 60's, Insha Allah.

If Nawaz Sharif stays, more energy projects will come, Insha Allah. There is the reason why Pakistan Army is supporting PMLN. It is due to his economical policy which is shaping Pakistan nicely and Army needs him to stay to carry on the development projects while Pakistan army focuses on the security-related matters.
 
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They are businessmen, not charitymen.

That being said, PMLN has already brought several billion-dollars energy projects in Pakistan. In a few years, those will be operational which will start to normalize Pakistan's economy that will help reduction of poverty as well as provide limitless employment opportunities, not to mention 24 hours electricity powers will be provided.

The situation will get better, Insha Allah. The nation cannot change overnight. It takes time, but good news after Musharraf and Zardari failed to initiate energy projects has been launched by PMLN. It is matter of time [few years depending on work's progress] that the economy will be stable like 60's, Insha Allah.

If Nawaz Sharif stays, more energy projects will come, Insha Allah. There is the reason why Pakistan Army is supporting PMLN. It is due to his economical policy which is shaping Pakistan nicely and Army needs him to stay to carry on the development projects while Pakistan army focuses on the security-related matters.

lmao...how much is all this going to cost Pakistanis????? any idea on how much is going into their pockets? They have been in power across Punjab for 30 years and I tell you that is one advanced Lahore...errr i mean province

take the blinders off...they are thieves and liars...84 from the family part of the ministries...yeah i am sure there first goal is to make the country better...haha
 
They are businessmen, not charitymen.

That being said, PMLN has already brought several billion-dollars energy projects in Pakistan. In a few years, those will be operational which will start to normalize Pakistan's economy that will help reduction of poverty as well as provide limitless employment opportunities, not to mention 24 hours electricity powers will be provided.

The situation will get better, Insha Allah. The nation cannot change overnight. It takes time, but good news after Musharraf and Zardari failed to initiate energy projects has been launched by PMLN. It is matter of time [few years depending on work's progress] that the economy will be stable like 60's, Insha Allah.

If Nawaz Sharif stays, more energy projects will come, Insha Allah. There is the reason why Pakistan Army is supporting PMLN. It is due to his economical policy which is shaping Pakistan nicely and Army needs him to stay to carry on the development projects while Pakistan army focuses on the security-related matters.
You can't be serious? Do you know how they run their business and they don't even pay taxes. What is the punishment of those who don't pay taxes in Islam or do corruption? So kindly please stop using Islam if you want to support corrupt people like Nawaz.
 
They are businessmen, not charitymen.

That being said, PMLN has already brought several billion-dollars energy projects in Pakistan. In a few years, those will be operational which will start to normalize Pakistan's economy that will help reduction of poverty as well as provide limitless employment opportunities, not to mention 24 hours electricity powers will be provided.

The situation will get better, Insha Allah. The nation cannot change overnight. It takes time, but good news after Musharraf and Zardari failed to initiate energy projects has been launched by PMLN. It is matter of time [few years depending on work's progress] that the economy will be stable like 60's, Insha Allah.

If Nawaz Sharif stays, more energy projects will come, Insha Allah. There is the reason why Pakistan Army is supporting PMLN. It is due to his economical policy which is shaping Pakistan nicely and Army needs him to stay to carry on the development projects while Pakistan army focuses on the security-related matters.

btw leaders are not supposed to businessmen, at least not first...they are supposed to be lawmakers and working to serve the country...the fact that they have so many business should make them void from such high posts as surely that creates conflicts of interest...but then again these concepts are alien to our society...tax evasion, money laundering, bribes aren't really considered as bad things in our culture.
 
You can't be serious? Do you know how they run their business and they don't even pay taxes. What is the punishment of those who don't pay taxes in Islam or do corruption? So kindly please stop using Islam if you want to support corrupt people like Nawaz.

lol and he make that whole comment about how he has lost respect for Imran Khan...hahaha...don't think even on his worst day Imran would need respect from such supporters of crooks
 
Maliki Mohsin is right they made an excellent start with Nandipur power project.


haha...the devils in the details maybe?

That project started in 2008...was supposed to cost $329 million dollars...by mid 2010 most of the work was complete, was supposed to be completely finished by April 2011...then it got delayed...got resumed in 2013 but will now cost a massive $574 million...so to give credit to one and not to other and to completely ignore that the cost just increased 250 million dollars and why...LOL...yeah Pakistani democracy...fill your pockets, while shoving the people under debt...and whats the guarantee it will even complete this time...
 
You can't be serious? Do you know how they run their business and they don't even pay taxes. What is the punishment of those who don't pay taxes in Islam or do corruption? So kindly please stop using Islam if you want to support corrupt people like Nawaz.

Shame on you guys. Slandering me for misusing Islam once again. I will leave that to Allah to judge. If you have any fear of Allah, stop making this personal for PTI.

If there was Muslim developed nations under truest Islamic system, then every Muslim people would be lining up there let alone me. Since there isn't, and Pakistan supports democracy so i am speaking from the perspective of democracy. Feel free to disagree and ignore, but don't make this personal.

In my opinion, Nawaz Sharif is the best choice in democracy system due to his economical policies, and that's the very same reasons Pakistan army is willing to work with PMLN rather than to groom PTI.

If we had honest leader, then we can happily discard Nawaz Sharif. Until then, patient is what the nation could use judging by the situation.

Don't give me example of Imran Khan who cannot wait to throw nation under the bus just to achieve its objectives; however, transitioned into craving for PM's position through blackmail/threaten tactics deemed unconsitutional and illegal in the eyes of Pakistan existing laws, Allahu Alim.

Again, this is my opinion. Feel free to disagree and move on. For the love of God, don't make this personal like other PTI supporters.
 
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And Malik saab before you comeback with the news that he does pay taxes, explain this. He does pay taxes but only started recently and that too because of the pressure rather than his neak niyatti.
 
A person who talks about Islam should not be supporting tax thief Sharif brothers.
 
I was being sarcastic-The project was only operational for 5 days.

You expect those projects to be finished within one day? Why not prove in Peshawar then? If it is too easy, then Imran Khan should be able to get those projects in operational in Peshawar. The nation could use short-cut of 24 hours electricity if not for the concern of Pakistan's economy which Imran Khan has made his points regarding development of Pakistan quite clear.
 
A person who talks about Islam should not be supporting tax thief Sharif brothers.

I am not supporting anyone. I am giving my opinions as i see fit. My opinion is harmless and carry no weight. Besides, this is debate. If i was to support, that would be implementation of the law of Allah. That day hasn't come yet.

So, i am giving my opinions judging by on-going situation which has come into contiuity of gov't; otherwise, that will set dangerous precent in the future.

The real support is in Pakistan regarding supporting PMLN, PTI, PAT, PPP. Don't assume that i am supporting PMLN whereas i am supporting no one; however, my opinion is in favor for the purpose of stability, economical and contiuity of gov't. If it was Imran Khan in power, my opinion would remain unchanged.

Again: Stability, economical and contiuity of gov't.
 
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And Malik saab before you comeback with the news that he does pay taxes, explain this. He does pay taxes but only started recently and that too because of the pressure rather than his neak niyatti.


Tell that to [MENTION=19532]AZ[/MENTION], not me. I didn't even vote for PMLN.
 
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Shame on you guys. Slandering me for misusing Islam once again. I will leave that to Allah to judge. If you have any fear of Allah, stop making this personal for the sake of PTI.

If there was Muslim developed nations under truest Islamic system, then every Muslim people would be lining up there let alone me. Since there isn't, and Pakistan supports democracy so i am speaking from the perspective of democracy. Feel free to disagree and ignore, but don't make this personal.
Yeah shame on us for not supporting the corrupt. Stop hiding behind the word "personal". If you use Islam to support your favorites and that too for unIslamic reasons, you will be called out. Its not the sake for the PTI, its for the sake of Pakistan and for the sake of justice. I couldn't care less what any of these parties do as long as its permitted by Pakistani laws.
So that means democracy tolerates corruption or people should be allowed to commit what ever crime they want as they are best at it?
Stop using the word personal again and again. It depends how personal I get and I am very well within the limits.
 
Yeah shame on us for not supporting the corrupt. Stop hiding behind the word "personal". If you use Islam to support your favorites and that too for unIslamic reasons, you will be called out. Its not the sake for the PTI, its for the sake of Pakistan and for the sake of justice. I couldn't care less what any of these parties do as long as its permitted by Pakistani laws.
So that means democracy tolerates corruption or people should be allowed to commit what ever crime they want as they are best at it?
Stop using the word personal again and again. It depends how personal I get and I am very well within the limits.

As usual, you are overreacting. Who ask you to support corrupt gov't? Don't support then. In democracy system, you can support any party you want, but that doesn't mean you should try to enforce your ideology on others who don't subscribe to ideology of party that you support.

Since, you guys are comfortable playing Islamic card which is worrying signs.

I don't bring Islamic card in political discussion because Islam and democracy don't go together let alone to talk about democractic political leaders. Nor i promote party using Islamic card since i don't support any party. But when it comes to political discussion, i am not gonna bring Islam in it because the democracy system in Pakistan doesn't recognize the laws of Allah. Either the complete system of Islam or none at all.

Too be fair, none of democractic leaders [Zardari, Imran, Nawaz] are ideal, but amongst them, one is worthy candidate due to his economical polices in my opinion [which can be wrong] .


I promote the knowledge of Islam in non-political discussion. I am disgusted with those who use Islam card to further their goals. For example, TTP uses the excuse of Islamic while attack on sovereignty of Pakistan - yet that group enjoys certain support from one of political party which it shouldn't as TTP is khawarji; worst scum in mankind and hypocrite.


I never bring Islam in political discussion, and i suggest people do the same. Leave Islam out of this thread.

Besides, if you haven't noticed lately, i no longer post Islamic knowledge anymore. Because of disgusting tactics you guys are employing, i won't be able to promote Islamic knowledge since you guys will taint me with Islamic knowledge.
 
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[MENTION=10992]MalikMohsin[/MENTION], Do you know who Mushtaq Minhas is?
 

[MENTION=10992]MalikMohsin[/MENTION] [MENTION=133998]Azzurri[/MENTION] [MENTION=21215]srh[/MENTION] [MENTION=52376]Saeed[/MENTION] [MENTION=1269]Bewal Express[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]
Watch from 18:50 onwards - Mushtaq Minhas explains why Imran Khan is being a cry baby for and then honestly tell me, Isn't that the most disgusting thing you have heard an anchor say?
 
Malik sahb bas kardo bas ! :msd

How can i vote for PMLN when i am in Canada? :misbah

People are not gonna believe me. My wife is in Pakistan due to the longest process of immigration policy, and during that time, my wife [Pathan] voted for PTI on my behalf while her whole family voted for PMLN. I have said this before. It is truth. Just because i admire PMLN's economical policy, suddenly i am noora? That's pathetic stereotype from PTI supporters. I count myself as ex-PTI-ian now. :jf
 
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Leave him alone bro ! He is new to this and it will take him some time to understand this loot mar system

To be fair, i am not supporting anyone except for stability, economical and continuity of federal gov't. If Imran Khan was in power, my statement will still be same.

Resignation from federal gov't will set dangerous precedent in the future. Any new party will use the same tactics to disrespect and derail the slow process of democracy. I am just offering my opinions prior to on-going situation. That's all.
 
As usual, you are overreacting. Who ask you to support corrupt gov't? Don't support then. In democracy system, you can support any party you want, but that doesn't mean you should try to enforce your ideology on others who don't subscribe to ideology of party that you support.

Since, you guys are comfortable playing Islamic card which is worrying signs.

I don't bring Islamic card in political discussion because Islam and democracy don't go together let alone to talk about democractic political leaders. Nor i promote party using Islamic card since i don't support any party. But when it comes to political discussion, i am not gonna bring Islam in it because the democracy system in Pakistan doesn't recognize the laws of Allah. Either the complete system of Islam or none at all.

Too be fair, none of democractic leaders [Zardari, Imran, Nawaz] are ideal, but amongst them, one is worthy candidate due to his economical polices in my opinion [which can be wrong] .


I promote the knowledge of Islam in non-political discussion. I am disgusted with those who use Islam card to further their goals. For example, TTP uses the excuse of Islamic while attack on sovereignty of Pakistan - yet that group enjoys certain support from one of political party which it shouldn't as TTP is khawarji; worst scum in mankind and hypocrite.


I never bring Islam in political discussion, and i suggest people do the same. Leave Islam out of this thread.

Besides, if you haven't noticed lately, i no longer post Islamic knowledge anymore. Because of disgusting tactics you guys are employing, i won't be able to promote Islamic knowledge since you guys will taint me with Islamic knowledge.

Allahu Alim this man must be speaking the truth!
 
Do you know who is the federal government of Pakistan? :jf

PMLN has formed the Federal Government of Pakistan. Despite only having 32% of the votes it formed government at the centre with a near 2/3 majority. PMLN received most of its votes from Punjab and this once again raised the question whether Punjab will dictate who controls Pakistan? In comparison PTI received 17% of the total votes and only ended up with 35 seats, once again bringing the whole electoral system into question. However, fact remains that both combined do not even represent 50% of the people who voted in the general election.

The PMLN has a tried and tested policy when it comes to appointing ministers. On first priority are those who are directly related to the Sharif family. Once all of these have been appointed, the remaining seats are filled with those who are indirectly related to the Sharifs. Next in line are those who are very close family friends of the Sharif Family. If after all these, some ministries still remain empty, the Sharif's simply keep these to themselves.

At one point, Prime Minister was also the Foreign Minister and the Defence Minister of Pakistan and Shahbaz Sharif is notorious for keeping a large number of ministries for himself in Punjab.

For the reasons above, people of Pakistan feel as if they are living in a monarchy whenever PMLN is elected and hence these self-acclaimed King, Nawaz Sharif, has not been able to complete a single term in office despite being elected 3 times.

their method of corruption is also to blame for their early exit each time. While PPP policy is simply take "commission" from businesses in order to allow them to do business or give them state contracts, PMLN sets-up its own businesses, factories etc. then gives state contracts to these companies, then increases the budget of the project and makes money on all fronts which does not go down too well with everyone else. To Summarise:

PPP: Eat and let eat
PMLN: Eat Eat Eat and Eat (as can be seen from their dinner table manners)


Allahu Alim [MENTION=10992]MalikMohsin[/MENTION] bhai
 
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B]Besides, if you haven't noticed lately, i no longer post Islamic knowledge anymore. Because of disgusting tactics you guys are employing, i won't be able to promote Islamic knowledge since you guys will taint me with Islamic knowledge.[/B]

Well bro you should do that instead of posting in favor of such stability, which keeps Nawaz in power. Those threads are much more interesting than this.
 
PML-N rulers are proper paindoos with no educated people in the ranks

Atleast PPP has a lot of intellectuals and educated people who can talk and write with class and civility

what on earth? intellectuals? educated people? class and civility? have you even heard of zardari? this is one of the most astonishing posts ive seen on pp.

fact - the pp and pml have been playing musical chairs in the pakistani government for decades

fact - pakistan has massively underperformed india in terms of governance, economy, social mobility, global influence and so on. as the fifth (or so) most populous nation on the planet, this is criminal missmanagement

fact - there are still significant and substantial corruption cases unresolved on the leaders of both parties.

how can anyone with any degree of self respect defend either of these two criminal, kleptocratic entities?
 
PMLN has formed the Federal Government of Pakistan. Despite only having 32% of the votes it formed government at the centre with a near 2/3 majority. PMLN received most of its votes from Punjab and this once again raised the question whether Punjab will dictate who controls Pakistan? In comparison PTI received 17% of the total votes and only ended up with 35 seats, once again bringing the whole electoral system into question. However, fact remains that both combined do not even represent 50% of the people who voted in the general election.

The PMLN has a tried and tested policy when it comes to appointing ministers. On first priority are those who are directly related to the Sharif family. Once all of these have been appointed, the remaining seats are filled with those who are indirectly related to the Sharifs. Next in line are those who are very close family friends of the Sharif Family. If after all these, some ministries still remain empty, the Sharif's simply keep these to themselves.

At one point, Prime Minister was also the Foreign Minister and the Defence Minister of Pakistan and Shahbaz Sharif is notorious for keeping a large number of ministries for himself in Punjab.

For the reasons above, people of Pakistan feel as if they are living in a monarchy whenever PMLN is elected and hence these self-acclaimed King, Nawaz Sharif, has not been able to complete a single term in office despite being elected 3 times.

their method of corruption is also to blame for their early exit each time. While PPP policy is simply take "commission" from businesses in order to allow them to do business or give them state contracts, PMLN sets-up its own businesses, factories etc. then gives state contracts to these companies, then increases the budget of the project and makes money on all fronts which does not go down too well with everyone else. To Summarise:

PPP: Eat and let eat
PMLN: Eat Eat Eat and Eat (as can be seen from their dinner table manners)


Allahu Alim [MENTION=10992]MalikMohsin[/MENTION] bhai

I'm not going to comment on the rest of your post, because I'm done repeating myself, and am now just following this thread for the updates (just for 1 more day, then I'll be going back home). But I'll focus on the highlighted part for now.

If someone has ever studied Political Science, they'd know this is one area that is the least favourite of everyone - electoral systems.

The problems you have specified result largely from the FPTP (First Past The Post) system that is applied in our political system. Pick ANY other country which incorporates FPTP and you will have the SAME ISSUES and SAME ARGUMENTS coming up. The situation with Punjab too being the most populous province in the country and thus being the lynchpin for winning the elections, is not just a failing or a limitation of the Pakistani system, but exists all over the world!

Opposition parties, or those who are aware that they won't be able to score a huge majority often criticise the electoral system and claim proportional representation (PR) should be implemented - knowing this will give them the highest number of seats (think someone like PML F gaining as much representation in the Parliament as say, PTI).

Is it Nawaz' fault such a system is in place? Not in the least. Again, personalisation of politics allowing people to levy blames of misconceived grievances that are no one's fault, really.
 
In my opinion, Nawaz Sharif is the best choice in democracy system due to his economical policies,

what economic (not economical) policies are you talking about? what energy projects? its not difficult to make a sale of $100mm of resources to a foreign company but its criminal if what youre selling is worth $1bn. dont be so naive as to form an opinion based on simple headlines.

have you had a look at the debt the country is in? have you had a look at tax receipts? have you had a look at the budget defecit? since you have an interest in energy, have you seen that they are giving away free blocks of energy concessions to the kuwaitis amongst others? did you know that there is serious opinion within serious energy investors that the same gas fields fuelling qatars massive expansion over the last decade extend below balochistan? did you know that zardari tried to sell the rights to some of that for pennies relative to its worth? do you know what sharif has been doing with them and the other natural resources?

if youve got answers to those questions, fair enough in terms of your opinion, if you havent. what exactly are you basing your 'economical' opinion on?
 
I'm not going to comment on the rest of your post, because I'm done repeating myself, and am now just following this thread for the updates (just for 1 more day, then I'll be going back home). But I'll focus on the highlighted part for now.

If someone has ever studied Political Science, they'd know this is one area that is the least favourite of everyone - electoral systems.

The problems you have specified result largely from the FPTP (First Past The Post) system that is applied in our political system. Pick ANY other country which incorporates FPTP and you will have the SAME ISSUES and SAME ARGUMENTS coming up. The situation with Punjab too being the most populous province in the country and thus being the lynchpin for winning the elections, is not just a failing or a limitation of the Pakistani system, but exists all over the world!

Opposition parties, or those who are aware that they won't be able to score a huge majority often criticise the electoral system and claim proportional representation (PR) should be implemented - knowing this will give them the highest number of seats (think someone like PML F gaining as much representation in the Parliament as say, PTI).

Is it Nawaz' fault such a system is in place? Not in the least. Again, personalisation of politics allowing people to levy blames of misconceived grievances that are no one's fault, really.

[1] I am not saying it's his fault. Just pointing a flaw in the system.
[2] I am a student of political science and know the difference between FPTP and PR

And I propose the following 2 solutions:

1. IF further provinces are not to be created then the National Parliament should be made up of 320. Each province should have 80 MNA seats - Punjab having 148 seats his highly disproportionate - after the 18th Amendment and further efforts to moves to decentralise power, it is important that the National assembly represents each province equally.

2. My second suggestion is to ideally create more provinces. Easier to manage and more representation of the people.
 
Some of her tweets in the last 12 hrs.

And she is retweeting every 2-3 mins. Seems to have lost it




<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Shahzad Roy, Amir Liaqat aur Junaid Jamshed kal yahan honge

<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TalkLikeImranKhan?src=hash">#TalkLikeImranKhan</a>

Dekho pls aajana bacho, pls .... Acha ?</p>— Maryam Nawaz Sharif (@MaryamNSharif) <a href="https://twitter.com/MaryamNSharif/statuses/502168941595066368">August 20, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Kal 3 baje Phir dharna hoga.

<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TalkLikeImranKhan?src=hash">#TalkLikeImranKhan</a>

Andhera hoga to niklunga warna log gin leinge !</p>— Maryam Nawaz Sharif (@MaryamNSharif) <a href="https://twitter.com/MaryamNSharif/statuses/502165590211981312">August 20, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Main aap ko ek qoum banaun ga.

<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TalkLikeImranKhan?src=hash">#TalkLikeImranKhan</a>

Naach gaana aur gaaliyan sikhaa ker !</p>— Maryam Nawaz Sharif (@MaryamNSharif) <a href="https://twitter.com/MaryamNSharif/statuses/502162149502763008">August 20, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
I'm not going to comment on the rest of your post, because I'm done repeating myself, and am now just following this thread for the updates (just for 1 more day, then I'll be going back home). But I'll focus on the highlighted part for now.

If someone has ever studied Political Science, they'd know this is one area that is the least favourite of everyone - electoral systems.

The problems you have specified result largely from the FPTP (First Past The Post) system that is applied in our political system. Pick ANY other country which incorporates FPTP and you will have the SAME ISSUES and SAME ARGUMENTS coming up. The situation with Punjab too being the most populous province in the country and thus being the lynchpin for winning the elections, is not just a failing or a limitation of the Pakistani system, but exists all over the world!

Opposition parties, or those who are aware that they won't be able to score a huge majority often criticise the electoral system and claim proportional representation (PR) should be implemented - knowing this will give them the highest number of seats (think someone like PML F gaining as much representation in the Parliament as say, PTI).

Is it Nawaz' fault such a system is in place? Not in the least. Again, personalisation of politics allowing people to levy blames of misconceived grievances that are no one's fault, really.

You make good points apart from the simple fact that these elections were rigged so are not legitimate.

There is no doubt in that honestly. 7 constituencies have been opened with lot of legal wrangling, appearances before tribunals and courts and lot of expenditure. And in each there were 60-70,000 unverified, fake votes. Even Chaudhry Nisar admitted this. So you have to ask that if we had an election like this what is the legitimacy of this government. And the govt. stops investigations in the other constituencies by getting stay orders and delaying it.

So question is are the people of Pakistan, sheeps or goats? That we will forever be under whoever is handed power by default? In that case, military dictatorship is better. Atleast in that scenario, we are not living under something masquerading as representative democracy. Why have the illusion of being in a democracy and fooling the people? If you have studied political science (which I just majored in) then you have examples of Soviet Russia among many other authoritarian states which had elections every 4-5 years for decades but that didnt change the status quo and hence were not really considered democracies

BTW It doesnt necessarily mean that if its fair PTI will come to power if there are free and fair elections. Most likely PML-N still has a better chance of winning but atleast they should be CHOSEN by the people LEGITIMATELY and FAIRLY. Right now PML-N has 2/3rd seats due to which they do not even need to work with any other party. But I support the campaign for electoral reforms. India, next door, conducts te biggest elections in human history every 5 years and no one ever raises the finger of electoral rigging. If IK can somehow help in introducing electoral reforms and the platform for true democracy before the end of his political career (whether he ever wins or not) that will be his biggest contribution to Pakistan.
 
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Peaceful protests do not enter parliament houses or secretariats or tries to forcefully bring down the government

perhaps youd like to refresh your history of your own country and how mahatma ghandi employed peaceful non-cooperation in order to bring down the british government at the time.

astonishing that someone can have their head so deeply buried in the ground.
 
perhaps youd like to refresh your history of your own country and how mahatma ghandi employed peaceful non-cooperation in order to bring down the british government at the time.

astonishing that someone can have their head so deeply buried in the ground.

Well its no surprise that Sub-continental countries are one of the worst in the world.
 
Well bro you should do that instead of posting in favor of such stability, which keeps Nawaz in power. Those threads are much more interesting than this.

That's not excuse to resort to jahaliyah act. In democracy system, freedom of speech is encouraged even if you don't agree. Don't resort to personal tactic to treat someone outcast. That's unacceptable.

I am not in agreement with the ideology of PTI. You are gonna have to learn to accept that. I have my reasons and you have your.
 
[MENTION=10992]MalikMohsin[/MENTION] Do you support any party or none?

None. None of democratic leaders including Imran Khan is competent to lead Pakistan handing multiple crises simultaneously except Generals of Pakistan army; trained and prepared to deal these kind of crises simultaneously, Allahu Alim.

@ PTI-ian

Don't make mockery of the term, Allahu Alim. It means only Allah knows best [referring to possibility of future if Allah Will]

There is the reason i add Allahu Alim because at the end, only Allah knows best what will happen in the future. Good thing i didn't use Alhamdu Lillah, otherwise PTI-ian would have make mockery of that word too, Allahu Alim.
 
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I was just feeling that he was being personal. Now I could be wrong, no need to be personal.

Don't worry about me. You don't see me going after PTI-ians. My opinion is strictly with related to topic aka PTI's Tsunami March; not resorting to personal tactics against PTI-ians here.

Feel free to say anything about PMLN and its leader. :jf
 
I must commend the Federal Government for the patience they have shown so far.

The memories of the Red mosque incident is still fresh in everyone's mind. Just imagine, a single skirmish can lead to tear gassing or lathi charge to disperse the crowd and any infant or young child brought in the red zone by PTA or PTI can gets hurt or god forbid die, the whole country will be up in arms and it will surely result in Army takeover and end to civilian rule. The unfortunate things is that both PTI and PAT knows that and are using this threat to further their demands and give warnings for charhai towards the PM house etc. In this regard, how are IK and TUQ any different from the RedMosque Maulvi brothers.


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The memories of the Red mosque incident is still fresh in everyone's mind. Just imagine, a single skirmish can lead to tear gassing or lathi charge to disperse the crowd and any infant or young child brought in the red zone by PTA or PTI can gets hurt or god forbid die, the whole country will be up in arms and it will surely result in Army takeover and end to civilian rule. The unfortunate things is that both PTI and PAT knows that and are using this threat to further their demands and give warnings for charhai towards the PM house etc. In this regard, how are IK and TUQ any different from the RedMosque Maulvi brothers.


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yes iK is a criminal..happy?
 
Looks like Democracy is surely under threat now mainly due to Imran Khan

And the democracy that is mainly under threat is GTD (Genetically Transmitted Democracy)

:)
 
History in the making, lol.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Workers being this water is for drinking not bathing but....in front of parliament <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/islamabad?src=hash">#islamabad</a> <a href="http://t.co/UMjCmwiXxp">pic.twitter.com/UMjCmwiXxp</a></p>— Haroon Rashid (@TheHaroonRashid) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheHaroonRashid/statuses/502003194461831168">August 20, 2014</a></blockquote>
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its ok...every person who has ever dared to change the status quo has been called anything from a terrorist to criminally insane

Yes, surely a big change to the status quo with comrades like these.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Today internet has been won by <a href="https://twitter.com/Memeabad">@Memeabad</a> <a href="http://t.co/EsM735lR0g">pic.twitter.com/EsM735lR0g</a></p>— ell Enn (@ell_enn) <a href="https://twitter.com/ell_enn/statuses/502104741527044097">August 20, 2014</a></blockquote>
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Excellent article from Mohammah Taqi as always.

An excerpt:

The false prophet of change, Imran Khan, got thrashed in political combat fair and square, and was about to break himself in vainglory were it not for those who have egged him on since 1996 to save his face and his sinking political fortunes. Over the last week Imran Khan’s Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaaf (PTI) and Allama Dr Tahirul Qadri’s Pakistan Awami Tehrik (PAT) ran out of political options and steam. It was surreal to see Imran Khan self-destruct on prime time television with his crude antics. The man had the audacity to go home for naps, showers and televised brunches, in the midst of the dharna (sit-in) protest. It was a tasteless and crude joke in the name of revolutionary change and the so-called second ‘independence’ for Pakistanis. The crowds, repulsed by the callousness of their leader, started thinning.

Running out of options, Imran Khan frenziedly called celebrity singers and cricketers for help. In a most pathetic manner, the PTI chief then called, as an afterthought, upon the workers and peasants of Pakistan to join his travesty of a revolution. Imran Khan’s reductionist reasoning is a disgrace to anything remotely associated with revolutionary thought. An unconcealed lust for power, born-again Islamist sloganeering and looking for a shortcut to political victory have defined Imran Khan’s tomfooleries since he descended upon Islamabad this time around. He virtually declared his intellectual bankruptcy from his own stage challenging the incumbents to a physical duel. Disjointed raving, punctuated by music, has been the name of an increasingly desperate Imran Khan’s zero-sum game. His cohort Dr Qadri sounded more coherent, despite his messianic delusions, than Imran Khan, but did not fare much better in numbers. The double trouble was visibly fizzling out before achieving what they had been tasked to do. But just before the whole shebang could tank, reinforcements and logistical support miraculously arrived. The powers that be were not done with democratically elected Prime Minister (PM) Nawaz Sharif quite yet; he had to be shaken, not just stirred.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/opinion/21-Aug-2014/soft-coup-hard-reset
 
its ok...every person who has ever dared to change the status quo has been called anything from a terrorist to criminally insane

Spot on!! As i have said before, many may not like this approach and we can all agree/disagree with that but don't forget that he is not doing it for himself. Some say that he is dying to become a PM and that's why he is doing all this. Why would a person do this for personal gains who has NEVER benefited from power/politics in 18 years (If anything he has lost his married life and childhood of his kids)?? He does not even let his closest friends or family members exploit the system so what would he do with power/fame?
 
Yes, surely a big change to the status quo with comrades like these.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Today internet has been won by <a href="https://twitter.com/Memeabad">@Memeabad</a> <a href="http://t.co/EsM735lR0g">pic.twitter.com/EsM735lR0g</a></p>— ell Enn (@ell_enn) <a href="https://twitter.com/ell_enn/statuses/502104741527044097">August 20, 2014</a></blockquote>
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If I remember correctly you are a PPP supporter, correct?

Nonetheless I was talking about IK...lets start at the very top and then we can worry about the rest
 
Spot on!! As i have said before, many may not like this approach and we can all agree/disagree with that but don't forget that he is not doing it for himself. Some say that he is dying to become a PM and that's why he is doing all this. Why would a person do this for personal gains who has NEVER benefited from power/politics in 18 years (If anything he has lost his married life and childhood of his kids)?? He does not even let his closest friends or family members exploit the system so what would he do with power/fame?

If becoming PM was so important to him there were other much easier ways...a guys of his track record can easily find a way through the status quo parties to the top
 
If becoming PM was so important to him there were other much easier ways...a guys of his track record can easily find a way through the status quo parties to the top

He could have become PM or a minister at least during Zia's time or most easily during Musharaff's time. Some people (for e.g article posted by Sadibaba) just simply do not get it that not everything in life is about greed and personal benefits. They need to grow up and look at the bigger picture.
 
If I remember correctly you are a PPP supporter, correct?

Nonetheless I was talking about IK...lets start at the very top and then we can worry about the rest

Why not worry about the rest, about his party leadership, the people he takes advice from and calls his allies, the journalists he invites on stage to conduct live shows during his jalsa, etc. Are those things not a reflection of his personality and style of politics. Why should we forget about all else and just look at the top. Is he of George Washington, Ataturk or Khomeini caliber.....someone who uses such crass language e.g. talking about "wet shalwars" while referring to his fellow parliamentarians and calling a sitting PM to a wrestling match. Someone who is so intellectually deficient and mentally regressive as to call liberals in the media who use their pen to criticize him as fascists and Talibans who have bombed, killed and maimed countless innocents as his brothers. What is so special about him that he can never do any wrong. That his mere consent justifies everything.


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Spot on!! As i have said before, many may not like this approach and we can all agree/disagree with that but don't forget that he is not doing it for himself.

People bring this point again and again as if this is all that matters. What matters is whether the stand will help or harm the country in the long run. He will not be the first or the last of the well intentioned people who actually can cause more harm than openly corrupt people
 
Whatsup with Sharif sahab btw these days.

His silence is damning. Hasn't said a word. Makes him look weak and guilty.

Must be spending too much time with the President.
 
The PMLN and PPP have created dynasties, we shall forever be ruled by bhuttos/zardaris and shariffs.

But no we dont want a revolution, we dont want to fight for democratic rights. We just want to live in an illusion of democracy.

We want to participate in rigged elections, who cares if the results are not accurate, its fun casting votes.

We want corrupt leaders, because we ourselves take rishwat, why would we want a government that will stop that extra income?

We want to see shiny new roads in Lahore, rather than electoral reforms, reduction in corruption, and educational reforms.

We like it when the government allows the opening of fire on protestors, while our favorite Gullu Butt does his worst without consequences. People die, but no concrete action is taken to prosecute those responsible.

Imran Khan? He is just a cricketer. Mian Nawaz Shariff and his khandaan are way more honest than him.

I am a PMLN supporter, hear me roar!
 
Both the liberals and the mullahs loath Imran.

Liberals would say he is taliban khan, a mullah would say he is a western agent. Liberals would say he is radicalizing the youth, mullah claims he is spreading vulgarity and obscenity.
Liberals say he is antidemocratic and has put the democratic set up under threat, mullah on the other hand sees him a danger to his Khilafat concept.
Some would say he is very obstinate while other claim he is a master of U-turns.

This is bigger than right or left wing.
 
Although this thread has been about Imran and PTI why not also discuss something about the ruling regime as well?

So what are the achievements of Nawaz Sharif and his family since coming into power from early 80s?
 
Everything is going against him now. Nawaz's resignation looks impossible now.

The irony is that even PTI workers truly don't want the reformation of election system because guys like Pervez Khattak would sweep their halka irrespective of which party they stand for. These guys are not insaafiyans; they are opportunistic politicians.

Gotta feel sorry for Imran.
 
The false prophet of change, Imran Khan, got thrashed in political combat fair and square, and was about to break himself in vainglory were it not for those who have egged him on since 1996 to save his face and his sinking political fortunes.

[MENTION=2071]saadibaba[/MENTION], I would like you to explain this.
 
What about the cheap language that Imran uses as the role model of youth? is that justified?

What about remarks like "Nawaz gymkhana me cricket tab tak nahi khelta tha jab tak iskay apnay umpires match me na hotay". How are comments like these not out of place?
 
Everything is going against him now. Nawaz's resignation looks impossible now.

The irony is that even PTI workers truly don't want the reformation of election system because guys like Pervez Khattak would sweep their halka irrespective of which party they stand for. These guys are not insaafiyans; they are opportunistic politicians.

Gotta feel sorry for Imran.

Nawaz's resignation never looked possible. PTI were never expected to bring more than 2 lakh people. There was only a chance of a military coup in case of violence and anarchy.

PTI have not handed their resignations to the speaker, more over they are not going to disband KPK government.

May be there could be some give and take within next couple of days.
 
He will settle for negotiations along with TuQ. Seems the most likely outcome now.

Well I did think the federal government might disband. Looks unlikely at the moment.
 
As far as hiring lotay, I would say that people don't change. Siding with the same crooks like Sheikh Rasheed etc is where Imran lost the plot.

You can't bring change with the ghisay pitay politicians. They are with Imran today and will jump of his bandwagon as soon as they realize that he's a lost cause.
 
What about the cheap language that Imran uses as the role model of youth? is that justified?

What about remarks like "Nawaz gymkhana me cricket tab tak nahi khelta tha jab tak iskay apnay umpires match me na hotay". How are comments like these not out of place?

This is not justified.

But the example here you give is justified. Don't you remember Nawaz calling him " boht sa khiladi aur madari ghoom raha hein , hoshyaar rehana"...He in fact called him madari.
 
As far as hiring lotay, I would say that people don't change. Siding with the same crooks like Sheikh Rasheed etc is where Imran lost the plot.

You can't bring change with the ghisay pitay politicians. They are with Imran today and will jump of his bandwagon as soon as they realize that he's a lost cause.

We call these people electables . These people have their own personal vote bank because of family relations, tribe, baradari etc.
The point is that simply on party ideology you can't break this baradari based politics , especially in rural areas. So, you need these guys to win seats.
As long as these people are not financially corrupt it's alright. If Imran does not do this then again some people would criticize him for being overly idealistic.
Unfortunately, that's how it is.

By the way, what is the reputation of Pervez Khattak? Is he financially corrupt too? Badsha believes he is not.
 
Siraj asks Imran not to punish KP for Punjab poll rigging


Haq opposed the attempts to oust an elected prime minister by agitation.— File photo
PESHAWAR: Jamaat-i-Islami chief Sirajul Haq on Wednesday said Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf shouldn’t punish the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Assembly for the election rigging in Punjab.
He also opposed the attempts to oust an elected prime minister by agitation.
Talking to reporters here at the JI provincial headquarters before chairing a meeting of the party’s parliamentary committee in the provincial assembly, Siraj said his party was opposed to the dissolution of the provincial assembly and the resignations of lawmakers.
Also read: Jamaat not to allow derailment of democracy: Siraj
“We can advise our friends not to resign from the assembly. If some lawmakers resign on their own sweet will, then we can’t stop them,” he said.
Says bids to oust PM by agitation should be discouraged

The JI chief warned abrogation of the 1973 Constitution could plunge the country in the worst crisis.
He said there were constitutional ways to oust the prime minister and that if the fate of the prime minister was to be decided on the streets, nobody would be able to hold the position in future.
Siraj said attempts to oust an elected head of the government through agitation should be discouraged.
He said the powers to resolve conflict had shifted from Islamabad (federal government) to Rawalpindi (the army’s headquarters) due to the inefficiency of politicians.
The JI chief said ultra constitutional action would harm democracy in the country.
He said he was hopeful the current political deadlock would end soon.
A news release issued by the JI after the meeting said the party would not accept any unconstitutional and undemocratic action in the country.
It said the National Assembly and four provincial assemblies should complete constitutional term in office, while the provincial assembly should not be dissolved.
According to it, the JI is part of the coalition government in the province and that the opposition has the right to table no confidence motion against the chief minister.
On Tuesday, the opposition parties had submitted a notice for the resolution for a vote of no confidence against provincial Chief Minister Pervez Khattak to the assembly’s secretariat.
The release said Sirajul Haq apprised members of the parliamentary party of his efforts to resolve issues between the PTI and the federal government.
It said Siraj had handed over all demands of PTI chairman Imran Khan in writing to Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif except his resignation.
The participants unanimously said they would support the supremacy of the Constitution, parliament and democracy.
APP adds: Siraj told reporters that Khyber Pakhtunkhwa had been facing uncertain situation for over a decade due to unrest, terrorism, unemployment, high inflation and displacement of the people in North Waziristan Agency and therefore, dissolution of the assembly at the current critical juncture was not at all in interest of the people. He said JI would put its weight behind parliament, Constitution and democracy.
The JI chief said if the Constitution was done away with, it would be difficult to keep intact the people from different schools of thought and nationalities living in the country.
“If the Constitution is abrogated, then it will be very difficult to make the people accept other legal documents in the country,” he said.
Siraj said the economy had collapsed due to sit-ins in Islamabad, while the stock exchange was on the verge of collapse.




http://www.dawn.com/news/1126739/siraj-asks-imran-not-to-punish-kp-for-punjab-poll-rigging
 
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