PTI's Tsunami March on 14th August [Mega Thread]

[the Great Khan]

I said it already, to me it's a cult. I admit it. Don't care what anyone thinks about it. Besides it's his ideology and way of life that has made me become a follower of him.

Apart from that, you have no idea how corrupt these N league politicians are. I've had a lot of friends and family work in high posts in the government. Some of the stories could make a Pakistani cry of how they abuse the little resources we have for their own benefit

post some of those stories, you can redact names!!

 

[Badsha]

post some of those stories, you can redact names!!

I can't prove it and obviously can't name names or the institution. But if someone wants to take my word for it they can. A common scheme was this: They'd get money for ordering "top class equipment to set up labs" from the government. They'd use that money to buy cheap grade equipment that didn't even work. No one even knew about the lab etc. When you see those big labs empty, without any use, just a pure waste of money it gets you ****** of beyond reason. Obviously they'd keep the rest of the money.....

This is just one example. I really hate Shahbaaz Sharif but at least he has some drama going on with his roads and overpass/underpass buildings. The rest of their ministers (barring some) are complete jokes

 

[Mamoon]

Ah, deflecting the question. Its okay, don't be fussed. Obviously, there are more important things in life than accompanying the power hungry Khan in his BS, but please spare us the emotional hyperboles ( I will take a bullet for him bla bla ). If you could take a bullet for him, you'd not be arguing with people like (who don't make any sense) me over the internet.

Same goes for all the other insaafiyans here, who are supposed to be the true sons of Pakistan. let alone accompany Imran, they are not even ready to live in his Naya Pakistan.

I struggle to get my head around this funny hypocrisy.

 

[Badsha]

Ah, deflecting the question. Its okay, don't be fussed. Obviously, there are more important things in life than accompanying the power hungry Khan in his BS, but please spare us the emotional hyperboles ( I will take a bullet for him bla bla ). If you could take a bullet for him, you'd not be arguing with people like (who don't make any sense) me over the internet.

Same goes for all the other insaafiyans here, who are supposed to be the true sons of Pakistan. let alone accompany Imran, they are not even ready to live in his Naya Pakistan.

I struggle to get my head around this funny hypocrisy.

I wasn't posting the bullet comment for you. Why does it bother you that I would take a bullet for him? If it does so much then fine, I'll make you believe I wont.

Obviously a majority of "insaafiyans" here are based abroad due to the nature of the forum.

 

[Mamoon]

And they have a million excuses when you ask them why they left their beloved Pakistan in the first place and are providing their services and expertise to a foreign economy. Yet they will post around on these forums pretending to be true Pakistanis and will take shots at people who are actually living here.

Very easy to act all patriotic when you have sought solace in a foreign and stable economy.

 

[waqar goraya]

Does Imran seriously think that he can still get the resignation of the PM? He has also burnt the boats by tendering resignations.

He still believes that re-elections could be held?

If any one of these two demands are met then it would be the greatest upset in the game of Pakistani politics.

But what will they do with their resignations if neither of the demands is met.....

 

[saadibaba]

Following the party’s core committee meeting, television channels quoted PTI leader Naeemul Haq as saying that it was possible that the prime minister could depart on a long leave until a probe into electoral rigging is completed.

Haq said that the core committee discussed matters in detail with legal advisors.

“The constitution allows the prime minister to go on a long leave,” he was quoted as saying. “We hope we will meet the government delegation soon.”

However, PTI senior leader Arif Alvi soon denied that the party was willing to show flexibility in its demand for the prime minister’s resignation.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1127058/tensions-easing-as-pti-returns-to-negotiating-table

Best case scenario for Nawaz. Go live in UK for a few months and wait till the dust settles down. He wouldn't mind it at all.

 

[Mamoon]

I have a question:

Where and how does TuQ fit in the naya Pakistan?

 

[saadibaba]

Does Imran seriously think that he can still get the resignation of the PM? He has also burnt the boats by tendering resignations.

He still believes that re-elections could be held?

If any one of these two demands are met then it would be the greatest upset in the game of Pakistani politics.

But what will they do with their resignations if neither of the demands is met.....

Siraj ul Haq of JI has requested the Speaker of NA not to accept PTI's resignations. I think the Speaker will sit on them over the weekend and hopefully we will see some solution coming out from talks between the govt. and PTI. After that, the resignations will be taken away. That's my guess.

 

[waqar goraya]

And they have a million excuses when you ask them why they left their beloved Pakistan in the first place and are providing their services and expertise to a foreign economy. Yet they will post around on these forums pretending to be true Pakistanis and will take shots at people who are actually living here.

Very easy to act all patriotic when you have sought solace in a foreign and stable economy.

Perhaps they don't have the basic rights and necessities which they should have being a national of a free and democratic country.

You can also see the other side of the picture that why so many Pakistanis tend to leave their motherland, live away from their relatives and loved ones owing to career and livelihood issues?

 

[Mamoon]

Many people have valid excuses and some have other priorities but the people that I've seen in my family and social circle, they simply leave because they want to earn more money. Yes its true that you can never have enough money but it all comes to down to values at the end of the day and when the same people act super patriotic once they step out of the country is what irks me.

You are not liable to love and be patriotic towards your country, but at least don't wear this mask when you couldn't care less practically.

 

[saadibaba]

I wasn't posting the bullet comment for you. Why does it bother you that I would take a bullet for him? If it does so much then fine, I'll make you believe I wont.

Obviously a majority of "insaafiyans" here are based abroad due to the nature of the forum.

Come on yaar, not sure what the big deal is. I took your comment as Josh-e-khitabat. This whole "taking bullets" thing is silly anyways. Do something constructive for the man, why die for him, that's not going to help him or you.

 

[yasir]

I think the whole Election system in fraud. Punjab is always a game changer in the elections and that is where most the rigging took place. It is unfair for just one province to decide the future of the entire country.

Punjab is also 62% of population. Punjab is dew for breakup into 3 provinces, I can see that happening in next two decades... Pothwar (Northern), Saraiki(southern) and Punjab (Central)... This will be better for administration.

I don't think rigging really took place that much in Punjab. PTI is really weak in Rural Punjab, in cities they were competitive to Nawaz... If election happened today, the Rural story will remain the same. In Rular Sind PPP is very strong, no matter what happen else where, they win in rural Sind... Nawaz has being winning Punjab mostly in last 20 years, PPP lost their hold on cities after 70s and Nawaz got most of the anti-PPP votes in last 20 years.

The reason PTI gain strength in cities because PPP lost its ground completely after Benazir. After Benazir PPP don't have a national leader, most of their votes in Punjab cities went for PTI... This was not a well planned but an accident and thanks to Zardari... Other thing that went for PTI is youth votes... I don't think they were strong enough to challenge Nawaz in both cities and rular Punjab...

BTW: PTI did not sweep KPK either, they barely form govt their. Sindh belongs to PPP and MQM. Its not like Punjab is the only place PTI lost

Rigging Only Happens Where you are strong

There is an old rule of rigging at local level, it's only possible where you are too strong.

Normally where both parties are strong that means they have enough local staff to stop anything fishy. In polling stations and or entire halva, where you have enough people to deploy in every station. It is difficult to do massive rigging, since other person is also watching. You can see complaints are coming from areas where other party had enough presence to notice.

Where as in rular Punjab, it was a land slide victory for Nawaz, because PTI staff was not present at all. But do you think Nawaz would have lost those seats? - Like PPP in Sindh he would have won those seats any away, the difference would have being 30K Vs 70-80K now...

I don't see how PTI would have narrow the gap of 90 seats??

 

[saadibaba]

I have a question:

Where and how does TuQ fit in the naya Pakistan?

He doesn't. Once all this drama is over, he'll fly back to Canada, only to be recharged once more if needed by the establishment.

 

[Mamoon]

Then why does he have the blessing of the honorable Khan when this chauvinist is going to hide his tail between his legs and run away?

 

[saadibaba]

Punjab is also 62% of population. Punjab is dew for breakup into 3 provinces, I can see that happening in next two decades... Pothwar (Northern), Saraiki(southern) and Punjab (Central)... This will be better for administration.

I don't think rigging really took place that much in Punjab. PTI is really weak in Rural Punjab, in cities they were competitive to Nawaz... If election happened today, the Rural story will remain the same. In Rular Sind PPP is very strong, no matter what happen else where, they win in rural Sind... Nawaz has being winning Punjab mostly in last 20 years, PPP lost their hold on cities after 70s and Nawaz got most of the anti-PPP votes in last 20 years.

The reason PTI gain strength in cities because PPP lost its ground completely after Benazir. After Benazir PPP don't have a national leader, most of their votes in Punjab cities went for PTI... This was not a well planned but an accident and thanks to Zardari... Other thing that went for PTI is youth votes... I don't think they were strong enough to challenge Nawaz in both cities and rular Punjab...

BTW: PTI did not sweep KPK either, they barely form govt their. Sindh belongs to PPP and MQM. Its not like Punjab is the only place PTI lost

Good analysis. Hopefully things will change for PPP once Bilawal becomes the face of PPP.

 

[Mamoon]

I really like Asifa, don't have time for Bilawal and Bakhtawar.

 

[saadibaba]

Then why does he have the blessing of the honorable Khan when this chauvinist is going to hide his tail between his legs and run away?

Khan and his supporters say he is not in coalition with them, they have some coordination but their aims and goals are different. Biggest difference between them is one is pro Taliban and one is anti Taliban.

 

[Mamoon]

To me it seems like they are on the same footing especially when you consider how confused the Great Khan is when it comes to Taliban.

TuQ seems to be more open about the coordination with PTI.

 

[Savak]

Punjab is also 62% of population. Punjab is dew for breakup into 3 provinces, I can see that happening in next two decades... Pothwar (Northern), Saraiki(southern) and Punjab (Central)... This will be better for administration.

I don't think rigging really took place that much in Punjab. PTI is really weak in Rural Punjab, in cities they were competitive to Nawaz... If election happened today, the Rural story will remain the same. In Rular Sind PPP is very strong, no matter what happen else where, they win in rural Sind... Nawaz has being winning Punjab mostly in last 20 years, PPP lost their hold on cities after 70s and Nawaz got most of the anti-PPP votes in last 20 years.

The reason PTI gain strength in cities because PPP lost its ground completely after Benazir. After Benazir PPP don't have a national leader, most of their votes in Punjab cities went for PTI... This was not a well planned but an accident and thanks to Zardari... Other thing that went for PTI is youth votes... I don't think they were strong enough to challenge Nawaz in both cities and rular Punjab...

BTW: PTI did not sweep KPK either, they barely form govt their. Sindh belongs to PPP and MQM. Its not like Punjab is the only place PTI lost

My issue isnt just the rigging alone for which there was plenty of video evidence but no action was taken. Whether rigging was at 5% or 70%, it is still a very serious issue that must be addressed immediately which the govt, the supreme court and the election commission failed to do. Secondly my biggest issue is with the people of Pakistan especially the poor rural people who sell their votes to the highest bidder on election day and criminally allow the same crooks into office who have a big history of unprecedented corruption, abuse of power, murder, extortion, bribery and bringing the nation further down to its knees. This system is perfect for the looting, plundering, colluding mafia who have no fear of accountability, consequences of their actions and fear of the masses. Islam itself does not call for democracy but for a Caliph who fakes all the final decisions after consulting with the shura but has the special responsibility for the political, security, economic well being of the nation and every constituent under him.

 

[saadibaba]

I know, but to me it seems like they are on the same footing especially when you consider how confused the Great Khan is when it comes to Taliban.

What is the great Khan not confused about. His whole political life is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. I think even he doesn't knows what he wants.

 

[saadibaba]

Btw, what happened to the Q & A thread. Went to sleep posting in it and now it's all gone. All my pearls of wisdom.

 

[MRSN]

I really like Asifa, don't have time for Bilawal and Bakhtawar.

She's very much obsessed with Musharraf. I don't think she is aware of Pakistani politics at all. She's linking PTI's dharna with Musharraf which is very childish.

 

[Mamoon]

Ah yes, all my replies gone and I can't be bothered to type them again.

 

[Mamoon]

She's a sweet child, will learn with time.

 

[BudMarsh]

I live in Islamabad. I am politically neutral but I voted for PTI in 2013. But this Azadi March is a serious nuisance to my life as my daily routine involves travel to and from Pindi.

Nothing about this whole dharna particularly makes it seem like anything useful will come of it. Having attended one of these "events", they are like a concert/mela. Nothing about this is like Tahrir Square, this is more like a weekly music festival. Imran's Khan speeches are so repetitive its beginning to seem like Groundhog day.

I spend a lot of my time travelling in Punjab, and I have friends in a dozens of Punjabi cities. Based on this I'm pretty sure Noon's support base is more substantial than a lot of overseas Pakistanis think. It is perfectly plausible that even in a 100% clean elections they'd still win in Punjab by a substantial margin. The Gallup polls pre-May 2013 proved this, the exit polls prove this and my anecdotal experience living in this province proves this.

Noon has huge support in Punjabi cities like Faisalabad, Sargodha, Sheikhupura, Gujranwala and Lahore and even in the smaller towns like Chakwal, Jhang etc. They've got the major electables in their pocket, no wonder they sweep these cities. Its not rigging that won them the election, its the ignorance of the average voter in Punjab who doesn't give a damn about national issues but just votes for the pre-eminent politician of his halka.

I am ticked off by this dharna not just because of the everyday disturbance it causes me but also because I honestly see this whole drama proving negative for PTI in the long run. I don't support PTI but I'd sure as hell want them to win over PML and PPP. PTI has a huge share of the youth demographic, I'm fairly sure in 10-15 years time they will have the numbers. I'm just not sure the numbers are there yet.

 

[Mamoon]

Ranjha Ranjha kardi main aapay Ranjha hoi.

 

[Mamoon]

I live in Islamabad. I am politically neutral but I voted for PTI in 2013. But this Azadi March is a serious nuisance to my life as my daily routine involves travel to and from Pindi.

Nothing about this whole dharna particularly makes it seem like anything useful will come of it. Having attended one of these "events", they are like a concert/mela. Nothing about this is like Tahrir Square, this is more like a weekly music festival. Imran's Khan speeches are so repetitive its beginning to seem like Groundhog day.

I spend a lot of my time travelling in Punjab, and I have friends in a dozens of Punjabi cities. Based on this I'm pretty sure Noon's support base is more substantial than a lot of overseas Pakistanis think. It is perfectly plausible that even in a 100% clean elections they'd still win in Punjab by a substantial margin. The Gallup polls pre-May 2013 proved this, the exit polls prove this and my anecdotal experience living in this province proves this.

Noon has huge support in Punjabi cities like Faisalabad, Sargodha, Sheikhupura, Gujranwala and Lahore and even in the smaller towns like Chakwal, Jhang etc. They've got the major electables in their pocket, no wonder they sweep these cities. Its not rigging that won them the election, its the ignorance of the average voter in Punjab who doesn't give a damn about national issues but just votes for the pre-eminent politician of his halka.

I am ticked off by this dharna not just because of the everyday disturbance it causes me but also because I honestly see this whole drama proving negative for PTI in the long run. I don't support PTI but I'd sure as hell want them to win over PML and PPP. PTI has a huge share of the youth demographic, I'm fairly sure in 10-15 years time they will have the numbers. I'm just not sure the numbers are there yet.

Excellent post, great to have a first hand (non biased) opinion from an insaafiyan.

I can bet that half of these insaafiyans are only there to hangout with girls with face paint. The perks of the youth movement.

 

[MRSN]

[MENTION=19532]AZ[/MENTION]

<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="//www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x24ajm9" allowfullscreen></iframe><br /><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x24ajm9_billu-butt-pomi-butt-meri-jaan-hay-tehmina-doltana_news" target="_blank">Billu Butt , Pomi Butt meri jaan hay...</a> <i>by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/Corruption_exposer" target="_blank">Corruption_exposer</a></i>

 

[waqar goraya]

I can also draw a similar rosy picture for PTI.

PPP is only limited to rural Sindh.

PML N is only a G.T road party. In South Punjab electables matter who switch their sides according to the wave, N is non existence in whole Sindh, very minimal in KPK. In Baluchistan not the party vote bank but sardars won seats for it.
The real party appeal is only limited to G.T road.

PTI has its appeal in Central and upper Punjab, Karachi and KPK also, while it is getting popularity among the Pashtuns of Baluchistan too.

When it comes to party loyalty PTI is way ahead of PPP and N league.

 

[yasir]

I really like Asifa, don't have time for Bilawal and Bakhtawar.

I think continuity is important to keep the legend status... Like in Cricket if Pakistan has no world class fast bowlers in a generation or two, it is difficult to craft new ones down the road... That's why loss of Amir and Asif was very significant!!

Same goes for Hereditary Politics. There is a big gap between Benizar and her children's plus they did not spend enough time to learn from her. I doubt if that family can come back in any meaningful way!!

 

[Mamoon]

I agree, BB died too early but I see potential in Asifa.

 

[Nostalgic]

I really like Asifa, don't have time for Bilawal and Bakhtawar.

Is she the one with vitiligo?

Cue the superstitious fish-and-milk comments.

 

[Mamoon]

Yes and she wears it like armor. Inspiring girl.

 

[Nostalgic]

BB too had skin issues. In her last stint as PM she had those massive dark patches on her cheeks. Makeup wouldn't always cover them.

 

[BudMarsh]

I can also draw a similar rosy picture for PTI.

PPP is only limited to rural Sindh.

PML N is only a G.T road party. In South Punjab electables matter who switch their sides according to the wave, N is non existence in whole Sindh, very minimal in KPK. In Baluchistan not the party vote bank but sardars won seats for it.
The real party appeal is only limited to G.T road.

PTI has its appeal in Central and upper Punjab, Karachi and KPK also, while it is getting popularity among the Pashtuns of Baluchistan too.

When it comes to party loyalty PTI is way ahead of PPP and N league.

NO doubt the "national" nature of PTI is one of the best things about the party. Sindh and Karachi in particular is going to be a major support base for PTI in the future. Even in 2013 they lost a few seats in Karachi due to MQM rigging but hopefully in the future they can overcome that. Speaking of MQM, I wonder why PTI doesn't talk about their rigging, because they have done some pretty overt rigging in Karachi.

Bottom line though is that the numbers aren't there. A variety of national and international polls showed Noon winning pre-May 2013. Therefore they haven't stolen the mandate. PTI needs to push for electoral reform but I guess electoral reform doesn't bring people on the streets like calling for PM's resignation. Maybe its also a negotiation tactic, but either way once PM doesn't resign its gonna be a defeat for PTI even if they get the reforms they want.

 

[yasir]

My issue isnt just the rigging alone for which there was plenty of video evidence but no action was taken. Whether rigging was at 5% or 70%, it is still a very serious issue that must be addressed immediately which the govt, the supreme court and the election commission failed to do. Secondly my biggest issue is with the people of Pakistan especially the poor rural people who sell their votes to the highest bidder on election day and criminally allow the same crooks into office who have a big history of unprecedented corruption, abuse of power, murder, extortion, bribery and bringing the nation further down to its knees. This system is perfect for the looting, plundering, colluding mafia who have no fear of accountability, consequences of their actions and fear of the masses. Islam itself does not call for democracy but for a Caliph who fakes all the final decisions after consulting with the shura but has the special responsibility for the political, security, economic well being of the nation and every constituent under him.

Now you are going all over the place like 'The Great Khan'. If rigging is not a democracy derailing issue than why all this drama?

Nothing can be solved over night. You have to work on problems, people will not become literate after one election or in an year. We need to strengthen institutions and democracy. If you really don't like democracy then why keep coming back to it?? - If you like it, give it time...

 

[Nostalgic]

From a national cohesion perspective, any PMLN regime is disastrous. They are nowhere outside of the Punjab heartland.

PPP is better in that regard: for all their shortcomings, they are truly a national party, able to win anywhere, not just their core base. PTI too is getting there, with support in virtually all the urban areas.

If Punjab is split into three provinces, it would help because Sharif Jr won't be lording it over the entire province. PPP will take the South, and if Potohar is a province I can see the PTI doing well there.

 

[Pakz]

Btw, what happened to the Q & A thread. Went to sleep posting in it and now it's all gone. All my pearls of wisdom.

Ah yes, all my replies gone and I can't be bothered to type them again.

I was looking forward to that, it would have been interesting. Why was it deleted, which I'm assuming it was?

 

[Mamoon]

Seems like a conspiracy to me.

 

[s28]

Pakistani logic as evidenced by this thread

18 year old boy bowls a no-ball, deprive him of his livelihood for 5 years
Corrupt Politician wins 'democratic' election through fraud and rigging, let him see out his 5 year term

The only way this stupidity can be destroyed is sweeping away the old family based politics and getting rid of Sharif and Bhutto families once and for all.

 

[yasir]

Pakistani logic as evidenced by this thread

18 year old boy bowls a no-ball, deprive him of his livelihood for 5 years
Corrupt Politician wins 'democratic' election through fraud and rigging, let him see out his 5 year term

The only way this stupidity can be destroyed is sweeping away the old family based politics and getting rid of Sharif and Bhutto families once and for all.

And bring the Khan Family


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[s28]

I live in Islamabad. I am politically neutral but I voted for PTI in 2013. But this Azadi March is a serious nuisance to my life as my daily routine involves travel to and from Pindi.

Your opinion shows that Democracy is wasted on the uneducated and ill-informed. Democracy grew in places like the West as an organic concept in line with economic , social and educational developments etc . IT is now transplanted to backward countries as though it is a one-size fits all panacea to address problems of economic, social and educational backwardness.

 

[Indiafan]

Your opinion shows that Democracy is wasted on the uneducated and ill-informed. Democracy grew in places like the West as an organic concept in line with economic , social and educational developments etc . IT is now transplanted to backward countries as though it is a one-size fits all panacea to address problems of economic, social and educational backwardness.

On the contrary, democracy was in place BEFORE the developed countries progressed economically, socially or educationally.

 

[Indiafan]

Pakistani logic as evidenced by this thread

18 year old boy bowls a no-ball, deprive him of his livelihood for 5 years
Corrupt Politician wins 'democratic' election through fraud and rigging, let him see out his 5 year term

The only way this stupidity can be destroyed is sweeping away the old family based politics and getting rid of Sharif and Bhutto families once and for all.

Wrong analogy

If a boy is banned for 5 years it is for him and only in the game of sports

If a democratically elected government is thrown out, it will harm the whole country for decades to come.

Huge difference. No one is saying do not punish him, but at the cost of completely ruining the process of resurgence of the country? That's not a price worth paying.

People are looking much beyond just 'punishing' Sharif here

 

[s28]

On the contrary, democracy was in place BEFORE the developed countries progressed economically, socially or educationally.

Prefer not to engage with an RSS troll but try telling that to Suffragette movement in 1920's or the Blacks in 1960's America or 1990's South Africa.

 

[DrSchultz]

18 year old boy bowls a no-ball, deprive him of his livelihood for 5 years

That's all it was right

 

[BudMarsh]

Your opinion shows that Democracy is wasted on the uneducated and ill-informed. Democracy grew in places like the West as an organic concept in line with economic , social and educational developments etc . IT is now transplanted to backward countries as though it is a one-size fits all panacea to address problems of economic, social and educational backwardness.

You conveniently ignore the rest of my post.

You also elevate this dharna to a level it doesn't deserve, this isn't an epic stand for democracy or the constitution, its the escalation of the personal vendetta between Imran and NS disguised as a movement for democracy.

As mentioned in my earlier post, the true problem in Pakistan is the average voter. If the average voter in Pakistan was educated and had a willingness to vote in the national interest, no amount of rigging could stop PTI from prevailing.

Lets be honest behind your rhetoric is the simple logic that anyone not supporting or joining this march of PTI is either a Noon supporter or "uneducated and ill-informed" as you put it.

Also please detail the personal inconveniences, losses and sacrifices you have had to bear for democracy. I'd love to hear them.

 

[AZ]

[MENTION=19532]AZ[/MENTION]

<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="//www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x24ajm9" allowfullscreen></iframe><br /><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x24ajm9_billu-butt-pomi-butt-meri-jaan-hay-tehmina-doltana_news" target="_blank">Billu Butt , Pomi Butt meri jaan hay...</a> <i>by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/Corruption_exposer" target="_blank">Corruption_exposer</a></i>

if you see the footage properly that Billu Butt chap was pushing PMLN workers away from SMQ's gate...and if you call that an "attack" then well, lol.

Pomi Butt is the Gujranwala one I believe? He already clarified his stance, willingly turned himself over to the authorities as well.

 

[srh]

Very Good column by Mohammad Izhar-ul-Haq

 

[Noora420]

I think rigging aspect is blown out of proportion, plus this issue can be resolved in civilized manner by fixing the institution rather than burdening it with another election

And this is exactly what PML N has been doing for last 14 months #respect

Difference between PTI and Nawaz was 90+ seats...

The way elections were rigged, difference should at least have been 150 seats, PTI should feel lucky its only 90.

I posted one example of NA-118, here 25,000+ votes out of 170,000 are non-verifiable. They did not mention which party has those votes. Chances are those are clerical or process issues (bad ink, bad paper, not putting the thumb correctly etc).

And your beloved nooras have already brought the culprits who bought bad ink and paper to justice, innit? Oh wait, they were busy in printing ballot papers from urdu bazaar on the 9th of may )

NADRA AFIS system will be ready in years to handle the load of 60-70 M votes processing. Real time finger print verification technology does not exist in USA or any where in the world. Why we expect NADRA or ECP can have that?

Because Nadra chairman claimed prior to the elections that they could verify votes if right ink and paper is used.

If election commision is so corrupt and broken, how you will fix that in 90 days before next election?

By replacing those morons who bought bad ink and paper with honest people. Believe me it only takes 1 day.


P.s: Just in order to make it a little clear, I'd like to mention some constituencies where rigging could be seen even without vote audit. IK and NS constituencies are exceptions because they both are national level leaders, so those who replaced them in by elections were always likely to get lesser votes.

I'm only considering city based seats here so that the argument of candidates personal vote bank goes out of equation.

PP 150 Lahore:

PML N got 50k in may elections while PTI got 23k. Only 4 months later by-election was held on this seat and guess what, PML N gets 18.8k while PTI gets 18.4k. The win margin of 30k comes down to 400 lol

PP 72 Faisalabad:

PML N won this seat in may elections securing 53k votes while PTI got 22k. 4 months later PTI wins this seat getting 23k, while PML N jumps down to 17k )


NA 69 Khushab:

In may elections, PML N got 120k and PTI got 80k. 6 months later, PML N gets 92k and PTI gets 72k.


We do see slight change in PTI numbers, but PML N's votes decrease immensely when ballot papers do not get printed from urdu bazaar )

#My2Cents #OkThanksBye

 

[Noora420]

^^ Just to make a slight correction, NA 69 is a rural constituency but I included that because competition was between same families (Sumera Malik vs Umer Aslam) in both elections.

 

[waqar goraya]

NO doubt the "national" nature of PTI is one of the best things about the party. Sindh and Karachi in particular is going to be a major support base for PTI in the future. Even in 2013 they lost a few seats in Karachi due to MQM rigging but hopefully in the future they can overcome that. Speaking of MQM, I wonder why PTI doesn't talk about their rigging, because they have done some pretty overt rigging in Karachi.

Bottom line though is that the numbers aren't there. A variety of national and international polls showed Noon winning pre-May 2013. Therefore they haven't stolen the mandate. PTI needs to push for electoral reform but I guess electoral reform doesn't bring people on the streets like calling for PM's resignation. Maybe its also a negotiation tactic, but either way once PM doesn't resign its gonna be a defeat for PTI even if they get the reforms they want.

I know that rigging did not deprive PTI of more than 10-12 seats. Those surveys did not give PTI more than 20 seats but you see PTI winning about 10-15 more seats along with those 30 if there was no rigging. N league with the support of Geo and farce surveys of Gallop Pakistan managed to give an impression that it is going to form the next government.
Being a Punjabi you must also be aware of the tendency of the voters here that they prefer a candidate which is likely to be a part of government. This further deprived PTI of electables like Legharis and Bosans. This also did a huge damage to its chances.

I know Imran is being impatient, I don't support his ineffective protest so far but I won't mind if he actually gets maximum of his objectives. Those involved in election rigging and mismanagement should be punished and purposeful electoral reforms should be brought in, I will settle for it. BUT i don't see culprits being punished under this regime.

 

[waqar goraya]

Wrong analogy

If a boy is banned for 5 years it is for him and only in the game of sports

If a democratically elected government is thrown out, it will harm the whole country for decades to come.

Huge difference. No one is saying do not punish him, but at the cost of completely ruining the process of resurgence of the country? That's not a price worth paying.

People are looking much beyond just 'punishing' Sharif here

Please don't humiliate yourself here with out having enough knowledge of the ground realities.

Punjab Police have not registered a F.I.R against Sharif despite a court order. Do you expect this set up to punish those involved in rigging ? In NAB ( i imagine you know that it is an accountability body) there are pending cases against many stalwarts including Sharif themselves and also against our opposition leader but they just don't pursue.
Do you know what happened with NADRA chief when he did not follow government orders regarding thumb verification?

 

[Noora420]

I know that rigging did not deprive PTI of more than 10-12 seats. Those surveys did not give PTI more than 20 seats but you see PTI winning about 10-15 more seats along with those 30 if there was no rigging.

I'm a kind of a constituency junkie and without being biased I think PTI was deprived off these national assembly seats in Punjab:

NA 54 Pindi

NA 57 Attock

NA 58 Attock

NA 93 Toba Tek Sing

NA 107 Gujrat

NA 110 Sialkot

NA 117 Narowal

NA 121 Lahore

NA 122 Lahore

NA 125 Lahore

NA 128 Lahore

NA 135 Sheikhupura

NA 148 Multan

NA 152 Multan

NA 155 Lodhran

NA 158 Khanewal

NA 165 Pakpattan

NA 166 Pakpattan

NA 168 Vehari

NA 170 Vehari

Add NA 9 Mardan and 3-4 karachi seats. PTI should have got 25 more NA seats at least.

 

[pakistani pride]

You dont know wether to laugh, cry or tell certain people in pak just go to ...
folks crying that the dharna has disturbed their daily lives.

Thats the answer why ibd will never be tahrir square. The pak awaam is ok with the fact that they are being ruled by 2 families. Those 2 families have ruined pak. So much debt no progress nothing.

IK is genuine and perhas pakistan doesnt deserve a genuine leader.

Democracy in pak is just fake and a joke.

ppp and n leauge that will leave future generations in huge debts is what pakistanis want..

 

[Mamoon]

Imran is genuine but stupid.

 

[yasir]

You are little generous... Kaptain Shaab does not play without being Captain

That's what he used to do in Cricket as well...

 

[pakistani pride]

Imran is genuine but stupid.

And parosee continues.. where r u from.
which part in pak?

 

[yasir]

I'm a kind of a constituency junkie and without being biased I think PTI was deprived off these national assembly seats in Punjab:

NA 54 Pindi

NA 57 Attock

NA 58 Attock

NA 93 Toba Tek Sing

NA 107 Gujrat

NA 110 Sialkot

NA 117 Narowal

NA 121 Lahore

NA 122 Lahore

NA 125 Lahore

NA 128 Lahore

NA 135 Sheikhupura

NA 148 Multan

NA 152 Multan

NA 155 Lodhran

NA 158 Khanewal

NA 165 Pakpattan

NA 166 Pakpattan

NA 168 Vehari

NA 170 Vehari

Add NA 9 Mardan and 3-4 karachi seats. PTI should have got 25 more NA seats at least.

Well with all your generosity, he is still down by 60+ seats... Looks like he need to do rigging to balance the books

 

[BudMarsh]

You dont know wether to laugh, cry or tell certain people in pak just go to ...
folks crying that the dharna has disturbed their daily lives.

Thats the answer why ibd will never be tahrir square. The pak awaam is ok with the fact that they are being ruled by 2 families. Those 2 families have ruined pak. So much debt no progress nothing.

IK is genuine and perhas pakistan doesnt deserve a genuine leader.

Democracy in pak is just fake and a joke.

ppp and n leauge that will leave future generations in huge debts is what pakistanis want..

A lot of simplistic garbage in this post. Typical of a lot of overseas PTI supporters. Please either buy a one way ticket to Pakistan and sit in this dharna yourself or quit talking down to us Pakistanis.

I vote and that in itself is doing more than what 99% of you overseas Pakistanis can do to help PTI.

I'd estimate your age at 12-13 so I'm going easy on you but seriously you have zero idea of what you're talking about. I'm fairly sure the intricacies of Pakistani politics and society and this long march are lost on you.

 

[Varun]

I think what hasn't been mentioned in this thread is the fact that Nawaz Sharif - though corrupt like many other politicians, is hardly Hitler. I don't think the Pakistani populace are really angry at him as they would be if they were under the repressive Shah of Iran for 30+ years, or Saddam, or Hitler himself. He's just Nawaz Sharif, and it's no surprise that Imran Khan can't channel a significant storm to dethrone him after all these days have come and gone.

 

[Mamoon]

And parosee continues.. where r u from.
which part in pak?

Peshawar.

 

[Noora420]

Awww, no reply to my post in response to your Sherlock'esque post? #NA118

Well with all your generosity, he is still down by 60+ seats... Looks like he need to do rigging to balance the books

Sherlock at it again!! I said PTI could've won 25 more. Have you ever heard of two parties by the name of PPP and PML Q? PTI wasn't the only victim of rigging, PML Q and PPP also had their share of phaintaa. PML N could never have won more than 90 seats at most #AllHailUrduBazaar

 

[KarachiKing]

Ive asked the same question multiple times but none of the opponents of the March have even attempted to answer it.

 

[KarachiKing]

Well with all your generosity, he is still down by 60+ seats... Looks like he need to do rigging to balance the books

Whether 1 seat was rigged or 100, the election becomes null and void if it is not legitimate

 

[Noora420]

Zardari ko ghaseet kai laoonga aur usskai phet se paisy nikhaloonga - Shahbaz Sharif

Tomorrow he will be welcoming Zardari for Nihari, Paee and Haleem at his home.

 

[saadibaba]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>The best description ever of current 'affairs'
<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/rabiabutt?src=hash">#rabiabutt</a> <a href="http://t.co/AJzmOlgBft">pic.twitter.com/AJzmOlgBft</a></p>— Rabia butt (@Iamrabiabutt) <a href="https://twitter.com/Iamrabiabutt/statuses/502828445651329024">August 22, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[saadibaba]

Zardari ko ghaseet kai laoonga aur usskai phet se paisy nikhaloonga - Shahbaz Sharif

Tomorrow he will be welcoming Zardari for Nihari, Paee and Haleem at his home.

This is called politics, "the art of the possible, the attainable — the art of the next best"

Nothing is nonnegotiable or absolute in politics.

 

[pakistani pride]

A lot of simplistic garbage in this post. Typical of a lot of overseas PTI supporters. Please either buy a one way ticket to Pakistan and sit in this dharna yourself or quit talking down to us Pakistanis.


I vote and that in itself is doing more than what 99% of you overseas Pakistanis can do to help PTI.

I'd estimate your age at 12-13 so I'm going easy on you but seriously you have zero idea of what you're talking about. I'm fairly sure the intricacies of Pakistani politics and society and this long march are lost on you.

How about you react to what i wrote.
how about you react to the ever increasing debt and corruption in pak.

how about you react about the fact that pia is not allowed at certain INT. Airports due its poor planes.

i go to pak every year. Married a girl from ibd and every time pak is going backward.

but of course you know better. Imran khan is so micj worse then the current leaders.

 

[saadibaba]

Whether 1 seat was rigged or 100, the election becomes null and void if it is not legitimate

No, that's a dumb and childish argument to make. If rigging is in 1 constituency you don't nullify the whole elections. You can have re-election in that constituency alone. N has 160 + seats in NA, PTI has/had 30+ seats, rigging in 10-20 seats don't take the legitimacy out of the rest of the constituencies or changes the party in the majority.

 

[abdulrafay33]

Sindh belongs to PPP and MQM

agar Karachi mein fair elections ho jate to MQM hardly aik seat jeet ti wo b nine zero se....

 

[BudMarsh]

How about you react to what i wrote.
how about you react to the ever increasing debt and corruption in pak.

how about you react about the fact that pia is not allowed at certain INT. Airports due its poor planes.

i go to pak every year. Married a girl from ibd and every time pak is going backward.

but of course you know better. Imran khan is so micj worse then the current leaders.

Please stop making a fool out of yourself. PIA?? What are you even talking about? That has nothing to do with this dharna unless I'm mistaken and this dharna is taking place at PIA headquarters.

And lol at trying to establish your Pak credibility/knowledge by saying " I married a Pakistani girl and I come here once a year" ) )

 

[Noora420]

abdulrafay are you that singer from Pakistan Idol ? seems like you are from Karachi

 

[KarachiKing]

No, that's a dumb and childish argument to make. If rigging is in 1 constituency you don't nullify the whole elections. You can have re-election in that constituency alone. N has 160 + seats in NA, PTI has/had 30+ seats, rigging in 10-20 seats don't take the legitimacy out of the rest of the constituencies or changes the party in the majority.

it actually does.

In any case, in this election 2013, 6-7 constituencies have been opened and in each over 60,000 unverified, fake votes have been found. Chaudhry Nisar has said this too.

So what do you say in that case. Isn;t the election nullified as a result when there is no chance of a fair recount?

 

[Noora420]

No, that's a dumb and childish argument to make. If rigging is in 1 constituency you don't nullify the whole elections. You can have re-election in that constituency alone. N has 160 + seats in NA, PTI has/had 30+ seats, rigging in 10-20 seats don't take the legitimacy out of the rest of the constituencies or changes the party in the majority.

As I've said before, PTI was not the only victim. PPP and PML Q also lost those constituencies where they were unbeatable e.g go ask people in NA 67 Sargodha, more than 70% would say Anwar Cheema of PML Q is invincible there. Now let me tell you an interesting story and I'm telling that on oath; Zulfiqar Bhatti who defeated Cheema came to see Nawaz Sharif in his office, another PML N MNA who also happens to be my family friend was sitting there. Zulfiqar Bhatti told Nawaz that he got more than 100k votes and had thought that NS would offer him a ministry but he got nothing!! NS at that very moment called his PA and asked him to bring Bhatti's "real" file. PA brings the file, NS opens it and tells Bhatti sb that he would have lost by a margin of 23k if RO's didn't come to his rescue. Bhatti sb goes away with a disappointed look on his face lol

 

[KarachiKing]

agar Karachi mein fair elections ho jate to MQM hardly aik seat jeet ti wo b nine zero se....

nahi. prolly still 10-12 jeet tee

 

[pakistani pride]

Please stop making a fool out of yourself. PIA?? What are you even talking about? That has nothing to do with this dharna unless I'm mistaken and this dharna is taking place at PIA headquarters.


And lol at trying to establish your Pak credibility/knowledge by saying " I married a Pakistani girl and I come here once a year" ) )

Dude i use pia as an example. Its a national asset or now a disaster. Its shows how corrupt the system is. Thats why i used it. No funny part in that.

i have very strojg links in pak i do not need to proof and certainly not to a internet warrior.

maybe get out of your little world amd you will see how big a laughing stock pak is.

 

[KarachiKing]

As I've said before, PTI was not the only victim. PPP and PML Q also lost those constituencies where they were unbeatable e.g go ask people in NA 67 Sargodha, more than 70% would say Anwar Cheema of PML Q is invincible there. Now let me tell you an interesting story and I'm telling that on oath; Liaqat Bhatti who defeated Cheema came to see Nawaz Sharif in his office, another PML N MNA who also happens to be my family friend was sitting there. Liaqat Bhatti told Nawaz that he got more than 100k votes and had thought that NS would offer him a ministry but he got nothing!! NS at that very moment called his PA and asked him to bring Bhatti's "real" file. PA brings the file, NS opens it and tells Bhatti sb that he would have lost by a margin of 23k if RO's didn't come to his rescue.

thats hearsay and we dont have proof of that so lets no bring that.

But it is established FACT that ever constituency opened so far has 60-70,000 unverified fake votes. And PML-N has used every trick in the book to stop the other constituencies from being opened by getting stay orders from courts. There is proff of that and the Interior Minister from PML-N has also said that there are thousands of bogus votes in each constituency.

The point is not that PTI didnt win the election or PML-N won through rigging. Point is that why should we accept a government which was not democratically elected but still continues to masquerade as such.

I don't see [MENTION=2071]saadibaba[/MENTION] [MENTION=14431]blinding light[/MENTION] or [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] replying to this

 

[venomousx]

someone's gonna resign soon iA