PTI's Tsunami March on 14th August [Mega Thread]

[LegendInzi]

This alleged "opposition" in this regard has already resigned from the Parl. but was allowed to present its POV.

Neither is beneficial for the nation.

And yet, Javed Hashmi was welcomed in with thumping applause from govt. benches yesterday. That, and also given immediate opportunity to speak.

I'm also one of those 'disillusioned ex-PTI member', but please stop embarrassing yourself with such arguments.

 

[the Great Khan]

I doubt it. AH is a basket case. He's been changing his statements daily. I wouldn't bank on this, but let's see.

yes but he's asking his jiyalas to resign and since he's their pir they may not disagree, if they do he will have to resign.

 

[WebGuru]

I doubt it. AH is a basket case. He's been changing his statements daily. I wouldn't bank on this, but let's see.

Trust me this was going to happen these Josh-e-Khitabat are the reasons otherwise no way MQM was going to help PTI here but these continuous attack on Army in last in last 2 days made it possible. MQM will never go against Army or stay silent even if all other parties join hands.

 

[the Great Khan]

There's a whole four years to go before the next elections
He could have continued to lobby parliament for changes


Which incidentally all parties have now ageed to barring the PTI who are still asking for Nawaz's head on a stick even if the electoral reforms and due processes are initiated

no they would have dragged it till the final few months of the 5th year and then left it. This is Pakistan no the uk. The PM needed to be woken up from his baadshaahat. He is not a king and now he may not be a PM either.

 

[uberkoen]

What people also seem to be ignoring is the fact that the Election Tribunal had already handled over 300 of the 402 cases that were registered with them.

Out of the cases pending there are two (NA-53 and NA-47) where PTI candidates had won and have now issued a stay order to halt the proceedings of the Election Tribunal.

Another important case was the NA-110 Khawaja Asif case where the PTI candidate who filed the case was fined by the ET for not following up with the complaint

The NA-125 case is getting a lot of media attention with apparently Khawaja Saad Rafiq having filed a stay order against the investigation. However, he has called out Hamid Khan several times asking him to prove his allegations in court.

 

[WebGuru]

And yet, Javed Hashmi was welcomed in with thumping applause from govt. benches yesterday. That, and also given immediate opportunity to speak.

I'm also one of those 'disillusioned ex-PTI member', but please stop embarrassing yourself with such arguments.

The Drama of Baghi is not finished the last Episode is going to come in next 24-48 hours and that is going to hurt PML (N) this time.

 

[blinding light]

I look at systems and processes on a daily basis, I know what a good "system" should look like. Its a very simple formula. You input into it, it processes the input and you get some in return in other words an output.

Now if the input is rubbish, you get rubbish out.if the processing is broken you get something you don't want as output, if the oputput is wrong then you didn't input it in right.

Pakistani democracy is built on a defective input. Henc ewhy its garbage in and garbage out. The system is broken, hence you analyse the system, see where its broken and you fix it. You don't let a broken system carry on because

a) it eventually costs you too much
b) is inefficient
c) gives you the wrong type of outputs
d) eventually breaks and leaves you with a mess.

there are two certainties in this world, change and death. They are both linked, but if you don't change a system that is broken it will die and take you with it.

Laughable. We are humans, not machines. Input, process and output is barely how you categorise and label the life of a nation.

It's futile to debate with this paradigm around. Once you decide to treat humanity and nationhood as social sciences and not robots, only then can we proceed.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

no they would have dragged it till the final few months of the 5th year and then left it. This is Pakistan no the uk. The PM needed to be woken up from his baadshaahat. He is not a king and now he may not be a PM either.

He is the democratically elected leader of Pakistan though and constitutionally all changes have to be passed by majority margins in parliaments
You cannot suddenly usurp winners of huge majorities by force because the army are also antagonistic towards them


What if Imran Khan and the army have a falling out in a couple of years over an army operation somewhere in the nwfp and Dr Qadri and another party shove Imran Khan out and destroy his 20 years of work of getting into office


If democracy is going to be treated in such a way, what is stopping 'mullahs' taking over pakistan, citing corruption and declaring shariah law tomorrow

 

[blinding light]

Trust me this was going to happen these Josh-e-Khitabat are the reasons otherwise no way MQM was going to help PTI here but these continuous attack on Army in last in last 2 days made it possible. MQM will never go against Army or stay silent even if all other parties join hands.

Let's see how it all unfolds.

What people also seem to be ignoring is the fact that the Election Tribunal had already handled over 300 of the 402 cases that were registered with them.

Out of the cases pending there are two (NA-53 and NA-47) where PTI candidates had won and have now issued a stay order to halt the proceedings of the Election Tribunal.

Another important case was the NA-110 Khawaja Asif case where the PTI candidate who filed the case was fined by the ET for not following up with the complaint

The NA-125 case is getting a lot of media attention with apparently Khawaja Saad Rafiq having filed a stay order against the investigation. However, he has called out Hamid Khan several times asking him to prove his allegations in court.

Agreed!

 

[the Great Khan]

Laughable. We are humans, not machines. Input, process and output is barely how you categorise and label the life of a nation.

It's futile to debate with this paradigm around. Once you decide to treat humanity and nationhood as social sciences and not robots, only then can we proceed.

You Misunderstand, democracy is a process. Ultimatley. You have an election (input), somebody wins according to whatever rules you put in place (processing), people get justice,laws, accountability, economic well being. (output) Everything is a process and Im not talking about computers here. Think about it.

What we have is an election (broken input) , somebody wins (who shouldn't have or there are errors), broken outputs. Now you can sit and do nothing (which is what your all suggesting) or you fix the process.

 

[blinding light]

yes but he's asking his jiyalas to resign and since he's their pir they may not disagree, if they do he will have to resign.

Let's see how it goes.

 

[Arsal_AK]

He did not. He has as many showings as Nawaz Sharif in the Parliament as Leader of the Opposition. You can verify this.

I can guarantee that PPP, ANP, MQM and all smaller parties would have agreed with IK for electoral reforms in Parliament.

They did.PTI did protest continuously in the Parliament as well as in-front of the EC office.They went to the courts, the tribunals, filed petitions and nothing happened.Absolutely nothing.

I myself was a part of sit-ins in-front of the EC and we continued this for days.The govt did not give a damn! What happened??And which other party came to support??


And yes, I know about his showing in the parliament.Something I have openly criticized him about along with the fact that he tagged along a clown like Qadri. I even left the dharna when he invited Qadri on stage to give a speech.

 

[blinding light]

You Misunderstand, democracy is a process. Ultimatley. You have an election (input), somebody wins according to whatever rules you put in place (processing), people get justice,laws, accountability, economic well being. (output) Everything is a process and Im not talking about computers here. Think about it.

What we have is an election (broken input) , somebody wins (who shouldn't have or there are errors), broken outputs. Now you can sit and do nothing (which is what your all suggesting) or you fix the process.

The process is being fixed now. What does a bloody tehreek to unseat the PM the elected Parliament stands behind proves if not personalised ambitions to become PM.

 

[blinding light]

They did.PTI did protest continuously in the Parliament as well as in-front of the EC office.They went to the courts, the tribunals, filed petitions and nothing happened.Absolutely nothing.

I myself was a part of sit-ins in-front of the EC and we continued this for days.The govt did not give a damn! What happened??And which other party came to support??


And yes, I know about his showing in the parliament.Something I have openly criticized him about along with the fact that he tagged along a clown like Qadri. I even left the dharna when he invited Qadri on stage to give a speech.

If he did not have many showings (which you rightly called IK out for), then how can you claim Parliament did not take him seriously. I still see no reason to adopt extra-constitutional measures and give legitimacy to Qadri, of all people!

Good. I'm happy you took a stand. Truly. This awakening of the youth will forever remain PTI's biggest achievement.

 

[the Great Khan]

The process is being fixed now. What does a bloody tehreek to unseat the PM the elected Parliament stands behind proves if not personalised ambitions to become PM.

lol, if you truly believe that then you have no idea who you have put on the PM's seat.

 

[uberkoen]

lol, if you truly believe that then you have no idea who you have put on the PM's seat.

If you truely believe coming out on the streets and making outrageous demands with the backing of a few thousand people will bring about real sustainable democratic change. You, my friend, are mistaken.

 

[Arsal_AK]

If you truely believe coming out on the streets and making outrageous demands with the backing of a few thousand people will bring about real sustainable democratic change. You, my friend, are mistaken.

It will, I have seen enough to know.Leave everything aside, one thing that this whole event has achieved is that everybody will think a hundred times before rigging in the future.

And that is huge IMO.

 

[Arsal_AK]

The process is being fixed now. What does a bloody tehreek to unseat the PM the elected Parliament stands behind proves if not personalised ambitions to become PM.

No it is not.Saad Rafique was losing, the last I heard by a huge margin and then the media was stopped from covering the event after the govt got wind of it. They now are trying their level best to change the results again.

 

[uberkoen]

No it is not.Saad Rafique was losing, the last I heard by a huge margin and then the media was stopped from covering the event after the govt got wind of it. They now are trying their level best to change the results again.

Saad Rafique has called out Hamid Khan several times to prove his allegations in the court.

He has stated numerous times that he will resign if PTI can prove any rigging in his constituency

 

[Arsal_AK]

If he did not have many showings (which you rightly called IK out for), then how can you claim Parliament did not take him seriously. I still see no reason to adopt extra-constitutional measures and give legitimacy to Qadri, of all people!

Good. I'm happy you took a stand. Truly. This awakening of the youth will forever remain PTI's biggest achievement.

I said PTI as a party, not IK.The whole party for the past year has been screaming their lungs out about recounting, reforms etc.

A big "we don't care" is what they got in return.

 

[Fastandfurious]

[MENTION=47981]b[/MENTION]linding_light If you had only two options between Imran and Nawaz as PM of Pakistan. Who would you choose?

 

[Arsal_AK]

Saad Rafique has called out Hamid Khan several times to prove his allegations in the court.

He has stated numerous times that he will resign if PTI can prove any rigging in his constituency

If it is proved, he wouldn't need to.

And as for courts, who ran and took stay order's every time they tried.

 

[uberkoen]

Also, I'd like to add that PTI has ZERO success rate in the election complaints filed by them.

ome interesting results:

NA110 (Khawaja Asif) - PTI complain against PMLN. PTI candidate fined for not following up the case and failure to submit any evidence. PTI lost case.

NA19 - PMLN complain against PTI. Rigging was proved on 7 polling stations by PTI and re-polling was ordered on these polling stations. PMLN won elections under administration of PTI government in KPK.

NA125 - Hamid Khan vs Khawaja Saad Rafiq in Lahore - Hamid Khan is doing delaying tactics and not appearing in courts. Saad Rafiq challenged him to come to court on assembly floor.

NA53 - PTI's MNA from Rawalpindi was initially suspended due to fake degree, now he is restored due to court stay order.

NA47 - PTI's Qaisar Jamal seat election was declared null due to rigging and fresh election were called. He is back on seat through court stay order.

NA55 - PTI's partner Sheikh Rasheed has taken court stay order which has stopped recounting or re-verification through NADRA in his constituency.

Another interesting case:

NA-1 Peshawar PTI got 90,000 votes on 11 May 2013 and on by-polls under their own government in KPK, they could only get 29,000 votes (lost 60K) votes in period of just 3 months. No complain was filed by PTI on this seat in tribunal.

Many by-elections held under PTI government in KPK, PMLN won comfortably despite PTI's having their own executive.

More facts:

Total NA Seats in Punjab: 147 (PMLN 120)
Challenged by PTI in tribunal: 19 only

Total PP Seats in Punjab: 371 (PMLN 312)
Challenged by PTI in tribunal: 23 only

Total PMLN NA seats from Pakistan = 145 (186 with women/minority)

64% of cases have already been cleared by tribunals. Even if PTI had 100% success rate in tribunals for 19 NA seats and 23 NA seats, it would not change a bit in position for PMLN in National or Provincial Assemblies.

Imran keeps on talking about just 4 constituencies, however 37 constituencies have already been cleared by tribunals and PTI lost in all of them.

Also remember that all PTI petitions were not against rigging, as many were challenging the qualifications and eligibility of winning candidate only.

Lets say PTI did not have trust in judiciary led by Iftikhar Chaudhry and executive led by Najam Sethi, we have a different CJ now and PTI has their own executive in KPK, yet still PTI does not accept their outcome.

Also note that rigging on massive level is not possible unless every single judge and magistrate is involved in rigging with CJ, and every government officer including all teachers who have election duties are corrupt and executing rigging orders from Chief Minister (Najam Sethi).

 

[Arsal_AK]

Good on SMQ for seperating PTI from TUQ's agendas.

 

[blinding light]

[MENTION=30287]Sakss[/MENTION] - I request an edit of my post # 3368. I answered in the quote in bold. In the last paragraph, I meant to write "demand for reforms and recouting is not unconstitutional.'' A grave typo from my part, and I take responsibility for it and apologise.

 

[blinding light]

also, i'd like to add that pti has zero success rate in the election complaints filed by them.

Ome interesting results:

Na110 (khawaja asif) - pti complain against pmln. Pti candidate fined for not following up the case and failure to submit any evidence. Pti lost case.

Na19 - pmln complain against pti. Rigging was proved on 7 polling stations by pti and re-polling was ordered on these polling stations. Pmln won elections under administration of pti government in kpk.

Na125 - hamid khan vs khawaja saad rafiq in lahore - hamid khan is doing delaying tactics and not appearing in courts. Saad rafiq challenged him to come to court on assembly floor.

Na53 - pti's mna from rawalpindi was initially suspended due to fake degree, now he is restored due to court stay order.

Na47 - pti's qaisar jamal seat election was declared null due to rigging and fresh election were called. He is back on seat through court stay order.

Na55 - pti's partner sheikh rasheed has taken court stay order which has stopped recounting or re-verification through nadra in his constituency.

Another interesting case:

Na-1 peshawar pti got 90,000 votes on 11 may 2013 and on by-polls under their own government in kpk, they could only get 29,000 votes (lost 60k) votes in period of just 3 months. No complain was filed by pti on this seat in tribunal.

Many by-elections held under pti government in kpk, pmln won comfortably despite pti's having their own executive.

More facts:

Total na seats in punjab: 147 (pmln 120)
challenged by pti in tribunal: 19 only

total pp seats in punjab: 371 (pmln 312)
challenged by pti in tribunal: 23 only

total pmln na seats from pakistan = 145 (186 with women/minority)

64% of cases have already been cleared by tribunals. Even if pti had 100% success rate in tribunals for 19 na seats and 23 na seats, it would not change a bit in position for pmln in national or provincial assemblies.

Imran keeps on talking about just 4 constituencies, however 37 constituencies have already been cleared by tribunals and pti lost in all of them.

Also remember that all pti petitions were not against rigging, as many were challenging the qualifications and eligibility of winning candidate only.

Lets say pti did not have trust in judiciary led by iftikhar chaudhry and executive led by najam sethi, we have a different cj now and pti has their own executive in kpk, yet still pti does not accept their outcome.

Also note that rigging on massive level is not possible unless every single judge and magistrate is involved in rigging with cj, and every government officer including all teachers who have election duties are corrupt and executing rigging orders from chief minister (najam sethi).

potw!

 

[Vegitto1]

potw!

Why did Saad Rafique take a stay order against the re-counting that was taking place in NA 125 where he was losing by 45000 votes?

 

[uberkoen]

Why did Saad Rafique take a stay order against the re-counting that was taking place in NA 125 where he was losing by 45000 votes?

That was only reported by ARY. I have yet to see this news story in any other unbiased news channel.

 

[blinding light]

lol, if you truly believe that then you have no idea who you have put on the PM's seat.

I dont believe in derailment of the process, civil disobedience and legitimising A buffoon like Qadri.

Give the process time, it will heal itself.

No it is not.Saad Rafique was losing, the last I heard by a huge margin and then the media was stopped from covering the event after the govt got wind of it. They now are trying their level best to change the results again.

5/6 points on electoral reforms including this constituency were agreed to. What else is there?

I said PTI as a party, not IK.The whole party for the past year has been screaming their lungs out about recounting, reforms etc.

A big "we don't care" is what they got in return.

Do you condone what has conspired since this big No?

[MENTION=47981]b[/MENTION]linding_light If you had only two options between Imran and Nawaz as PM of Pakistan. Who would you choose?

Nothing is ever that black or white. Such gross simplifications do the entire field of political science a huge disservice.

The options are like aagay kuwan, peechay khai. One is a definite fraud, corrupt guy who fancies himself a king and cant even speak with proper arguments despite being PM.

The other is not corrupt financially, but is so captivated by himself, his ego and his ambitions that he has the tendency to shoot himself in the foot.

I'd say neither.

 

[blinding light]

Why did Saad Rafique take a stay order against the re-counting that was taking place in NA 125 where he was losing by 45000 votes?

Last time I checked, I was not Khwaja Saad Rafique.

 

[UsmanhailsAfridi]

Let's see how it all unfolds.



Agreed!

Agreed? Wow you are really partial. Amazing. Then you expect respect for you idea but you continue to tug a status-quo line. Everyone in the Parliament is saying there was rigging but people keep on providing bogus comments on how the cases are really mostly resolved.

 

[uberkoen]

Agreed? Wow you are really partial. Amazing. Then you expect respect for you idea but you continue to tug a status-quo line. Everyone in the Parliament is saying there was rigging but people keep on providing bogus comments on how the cases are really mostly resolved.

There is rigging. No one is denying that. However, the rigging isn't at a large enough scale to have influenced the results of the elections. Regardless of whether or not the rigging occurred Nawaz would still have been PM.

However, that is not to say that this matter should not be looked into. It should be investigated and put to an end to avoid future issues and controversies.

The point is that Imran is making a mountain out of a mole hill.

 

[blinding light]

Agreed? Wow you are really partial. Amazing. Then you expect respect for you idea but you continue to tug a status-quo line. Everyone in the Parliament is saying there was rigging but people keep on providing bogus comments on how the cases are really mostly resolved.

Yeah, i forgot. PTIians reserve respect only for those who live happily off the political rhetoric IK feeds to them. No one else is worthy of respect.

Are you trying to say the above cases quoted by uberkoen are not true?

 

[Vegitto1]

That was only reported by ARY. I have yet to see this news story in any other unbiased news channel.

Ary News showed live footage and Saad Rafique has taken a stay order. I think that is enough evidence.

 

[uberkoen]

Ary News showed live footage and Saad Rafique has taken a stay order. I think that is enough evidence.

Yes, Mubashar Luqman showed it on his show. No other channel covered this news.

BTW, Luqman is the same guy who said yesterday "Sab ko pata hai Hashmi PTI ka president kaise bana"

and previously PTI's own supporters have shown him to be a liar when he was covering the PTI rally a few years ago.

Funny how his word has become gospel now that he's supporting PTI.

I'll take whatever he says/shows with a pinch of salt.

 

[Vegitto1]

Yes, Mubashar Luqman showed it on his show. No other channel covered this news.

BTW, Luqman is the same guy who said yesterday "Sab ko pata hai Hashmi PTI ka president kaise bana"

and previously PTI's own supporters have shown him to be a liar when he was covering the PTI rally a few years ago.

Funny how his word has become gospel now that he's supporting PTI.

I'll take whatever he says/shows with a pinch of salt.

Mate, Saad Rafique got a stay order against the recount!!!! Is that in itself confirmation that a recount was in progress?

 

[uberkoen]

Mate, Saad Rafique got a stay order against the recount!!!! Is that in itself confirmation that a recount was in progress?

Okay, I'll agree with you Saad Rafique won due to rigging. Now, can you tell me how that changes anything?

 

[endymion248]

Yes, Mubashar Luqman showed it on his show. No other channel covered this news.

BTW, Luqman is the same guy who said yesterday "Sab ko pata hai Hashmi PTI ka president kaise bana"

and previously PTI's own supporters have shown him to be a liar when he was covering the PTI rally a few years ago.

Funny how his word has become gospel now that he's supporting PTI.

I'll take whatever he says/shows with a pinch of salt.

He is a disgrace of a journalist.

 

[godzilla]

There is rigging. No one is denying that. However, the rigging isn't at a large enough scale to have influenced the results of the elections. Regardless of whether or not the rigging occurred Nawaz would still have been PM.

However, that is not to say that this matter should not be looked into. It should be investigated and put to an end to avoid future issues and controversies.

The point is that Imran is making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Are you aware of the pti position that they have deemed those four constituencies pivotal and have therefore not filed for contentions on other constituencies pending a result?

 

[Vegitto1]

Okay, I'll agree with you Saad Rafique won due to rigging. Now, can you tell me how that changes anything?

How that changes things is:

You arrest the PO and RO of that constituency.
You arrest anyone who had casted more than one vote (thumb verification)
You arrest those who are caught on video indulging in ballot stuffing.

You disqualify Saad Rafique on grounds that he was in the polling stations during voting period which is a serious breach of ECP rules.

You then hold by-elections in that constituency and you do the exact same for every constituency where rigging is proved.

Then you have a proper elected representative and then you can claim that we have a democratically elected parliament!

 

[Vegitto1]

He is a disgrace of a journalist.

Hamid Mir, Talat Hussain, Javed Chaudhry, Absar Alam, Mujeeb ur Reham Shami are equally, if not more, disgraceful.

 

[godzilla]

Give the process time, it will heal itself.

One is a definite fraud, corrupt guy who fancies himself a king and cant even speak with proper arguments despite being PM.

The other is not corrupt financially, but is so captivated by himself, his ego and his ambitions that he has the tendency to shoot himself in the foot.

I'd say neither.

What makes you convinced that the process will heal itself? Your whole position seems to pivoted on this.

It's a travesty and incredible that a man who is honest and at worst has poor table manners is equated with a fraud. I wonder how this can be rationalised at all, what is the cost to the country of an egomaniacal honest man of integrity who has sacrificed everything including offers of power, versus the cost to the country of a ex-con fraudster and nepotistic opportunist.

I don't understand either how it is taken as gospel that Imran is doing this out of an egotistical motivation. But that's a secondary issue in the face of the above two entirely unsubstantiated insanities.

 

[Fastandfurious]

Nothing is ever that black or white. Such gross simplifications do the entire field of political science a huge disservice.

The options are like aagay kuwan, peechay khai. One is a definite fraud, corrupt guy who fancies himself a king and cant even speak with proper arguments despite being PM.

The other is not corrupt financially, but is so captivated by himself, his ego and his ambitions that he has the tendency to shoot himself in the foot.

I'd say neither.

lol I didn't ask for an explanation on them, just which one you would choose if they were the "only" options. Never mind.

 

[uberkoen]

How that changes things is:

You arrest the PO and RO of that constituency.
You arrest anyone who had casted more than one vote (thumb verification)
You arrest those who are caught on video indulging in ballot stuffing.

You disqualify Saad Rafique on grounds that he was in the polling stations during voting period which is a serious breach of ECP rules.

You then hold by-elections in that constituency and you do the exact same for every constituency where rigging is proved.

Then you have a proper elected representative and then you can claim that we have a democratically elected parliament!

Then Imran should've been asking for Saad Rafique to resign instead of Nawaz.

 

[UsmanhailsAfridi]

Also, I'd like to add that PTI has ZERO success rate in the election complaints filed by them.

ome interesting results:

NA110 (Khawaja Asif) - PTI complain against PMLN. PTI candidate fined for not following up the case and failure to submit any evidence. PTI lost case.

This is one of the 4 constituencies where recounting was requested (a democratic right). Why was this matter dragged out to court when the Tribunal was setup who could have ordered recounting? Again just more delay and BS tactics using the influence of the sitting government and their bought out judges. So a person who wants to do recounting and is actually even has to pay for it also has to provide concrete evidence in court...well what a system? Why was STAY ORDER taken?

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xzy53q_massive-rigging-in-sialkot-na-110-by-khawaja-asif_shortfilms

NA19 - PMLN complain against PTI. Rigging was proved on 7 polling stations by PTI and re-polling was ordered on these polling stations. PMLN won elections under administration of PTI government in KPK.

PTI candidate won this seat initially. "In response to Omar’s petition, the returning officer carried out a recount and declared Zaman the winner on May 24, 2013. However, Omar once again objected to the results of seven polling stations and demanded re-election. On December 31, election tribunal Abbottabad suspended Dr Zaman’s membership and ordered re-polling". So basically a recount was ordered right way and PTI came on top again. Then election tribunal ordered re-polling of 7 polling stations. What evidence was provided here for re-polling to be ordered? After re-polling, the PMLN came on top. Process was followed but note how quickly the election tribunal here made judgement of re-polling.

NA125 - Hamid Khan vs Khawaja Saad Rafiq in Lahore - Hamid Khan is doing delaying tactics and not appearing in courts. Saad Rafiq challenged him to come to court on assembly floor.

A recount was ordered on this on May 29, 2013. How come it hasn't been complete? Why is this matter in court Sir when the recounting should actually be taking place? Why was STAY ORDER taken?

NA53 - PTI's MNA from Rawalpindi was initially suspended due to fake degree, now he is restored due to court stay order.

STAY ORDER? Here is the supreme court decision on restoring this candidate. Note how he was right away suspended in July of 2013 on charges of fake degree. I guess the courts work in one direction.

http://dunyanews.tv/index.php/en/Pakistan/217548-SC-restores-membership-of-PTIs-MNA-Ghulam-Sarwar


NA47 - PTI's Qaisar Jamal seat election was declared null due to rigging and fresh election were called. He is back on seat through court stay order.

Amazing the kind stuff you have to counter around here. NA-47 the re-election was called not because of rigging but because one of the independent candidates was given the wrong party symbol on the ballot paper. Note again how the MNA was suspended and re-election called. Convenient.


http://www.nation.com.pk/national/06-May-2014/election-tribunal-orders-re-election-in-na-47

NA55 - PTI's partner Sheikh Rasheed has taken court stay order which has stopped recounting or re-verification through NADRA in his constituency.

Another interesting case:

NA-1 Peshawar PTI got 90,000 votes on 11 May 2013 and on by-polls under their own government in KPK, they could only get 29,000 votes (lost 60K) votes in period of just 3 months. No complain was filed by PTI on this seat in tribunal.

What is the problem with this? Imran Khan ran on the NA-1 ticket and he wont with a supreme majority. Once he vacated the seat, the PTI person lost the by-election by 5000 votes to the same guy from ANP (34k votes) who won this seat in 2008 by getting 44k votes then. These sort of things happen in by-elections, the turnout is never the same as on original election day. The fact that with PTi in power the seat wasn't rigged should speak volumes.

Many by-elections held under PTI government in KPK, PMLN won comfortably despite PTI's having their own executive.

Again what is the issue with this and what does this have to do with rigging on May 11th?

More facts:

Total NA Seats in Punjab: 147 (PMLN 120)
Challenged by PTI in tribunal: 19 only

Total PP Seats in Punjab: 371 (PMLN 312)
Challenged by PTI in tribunal: 23 only

Total PMLN NA seats from Pakistan = 145 (186 with women/minority)

64% of cases have already been cleared by tribunals. Even if PTI had 100% success rate in tribunals for 19 NA seats and 23 NA seats, it would not change a bit in position for PMLN in National or Provincial Assemblies.

Imran keeps on talking about just 4 constituencies, however 37 constituencies have already been cleared by tribunals and PTI lost in all of them.

The fact is recounting hasn't happen in any of the 4 seats as requested repeatedly by PTI

Also remember that all PTI petitions were not against rigging, as many were challenging the qualifications and eligibility of winning candidate only.

Lets say PTI did not have trust in judiciary led by Iftikhar Chaudhry and executive led by Najam Sethi, we have a different CJ now and PTI has their own executive in KPK, yet still PTI does not accept their outcome.

Also note that rigging on massive level is not possible unless every single judge and magistrate is involved in rigging with CJ, and every government officer including all teachers who have election duties are corrupt and executing rigging orders from Chief Minister (Najam Sethi).

Do you have evidence to prove that wasn't the case? When the interior minister goes on the Parliament floor and says that 60k votes in each constituency are unverifiable, it doesn't bode well for the status of the election. First of how all, how does he even know that information and on what basis is he making that claim?

It is quite clear that justice is one directional from the cases above. Recounting, re-polling ordered on my seats where PTI candidate won but for the 4 seats mentioned, no recounting, no re-polling, there the matters have even reached the court for some reason when it is the tribunal that can make all the calls, there the judges sometimes don't like the attitude of PTI candidates, ask for evidence to proceed further while paying out of their pockets for their democratic right of recounting or stay orders are taken or the case is just thrown out.

Conveniently, you have forgotten about the cases where recounting proved massive systematic rigging. No convictions, no one punished, nada. Just normal business.

NA-118: "The total number of votes here was 46,118 and only 15,835 voters’ thumbprints were verified.". "ADRA’s report added that 4,043 votes were found to be cast against invalid CNIC numbers, and NADRA states that identity cards with these numbers were never issued by the authority."

http://tribune.com.pk/story/719730/electoral-fraud-nadra-finds-rigging-in-records-of-na-118/

NA-154: In recounting NA-154, 36,000 votes are found as bogus. Many ballots were eaten by termites. Stay order was only vacated a year after the petition was filed by PTI. Oh my.

NA-256: "According to the report, 84,748 votes were cast in the constituency during the May 11 general elections and 11,343 ballot papers contained invalid Computerised National Identity Card (CNIC) numbers which were never issued by the registration authority."

NA-258: "Earlier, Nadra thumb impression verification report of NA-258 (Karachi) revealed fake votes during the May 11 election, which was won by Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) candidate Abdul Hakeem Baloch."

http://www.nation.com.pk/national/08-Oct-2013/nadra-finds-may-11-polls-massively-rigged-in-na-256

 

[dhump]

I am so sick of this dharna now soo many important things are ignored due to this. ISIS distributed flyers in pakistan this is bigger issue for me than who is PM atm. Clearly NS is not resigning unless Military forces him to and they are in no position to do so. I guess PTI is now working on face saving tactics and we have to bare with them a little.

My feeling is PTI will leave Islamabad with less than what they came there with. It is like game of deal no deal where PTI is losing badly because they dont have anything in briefcase.

 

[zimmz]

Then Imran should've been asking for Saad Rafique to resign instead of Nawaz.

NS is party leader plus one of NS seat that he won also is in doubt after it was pointed out that 800% votes were cast in one of polling station.

 

[endymion248]

Hamid Mir, Talat Hussain, Javed Chaudhry, Absar Alam, Mujeeb ur Reham Shami are equally, if not more, disgraceful.

They are disgraceful in a behind the scenes manner, ML's tv persona and bias are there for everyone to see.

 

[Vegitto1]

They are disgraceful in a behind the scenes manner, ML's tv persona and bias are there for everyone to see.

No doubt ML is also biased against government however at this moment in time, most of the things he says are right except when he talks in a negative about democracy.

Democracy, dictatorship and other forms of government are only as good as the people who are running them.

 

[pakistanisgreat]

You and many other pakistanis surely deserve Nawaz and Zaradari... COntinue to suffer for the next couple of years, Pakistan will be worse than somalia

there is no way i supported Nawaz. i hate N league. i just support system. if these 10 thousand can change the government then tomorrow somebody else will come in power i will bring 10 thousand people to change government.
even i gave vote to imran. Brother there is a system to do things. you just do not go attack your parliament and threaten government to leave.
And what he has done to KP as far right now? Imran has chance to prove himself in KP, once he show his work in KP he will be next president.
Imran does not even know how to talk. what kind of language he was using.

Again i hate N league as well. I am just supporting system and pakistan. You do not get freedom by destroying your own country.

 

[pakistanisgreat]

Javed hashmi has expose both PTI and PAT!

I think javed hashmi did great for pakistan atm. He will be remembered as hero in future.

 

[UsmanhailsAfridi]

there is no way i supported Nawaz. i hate N league. i just support system. if these 10 thousand can change the government then tomorrow somebody else will come in power i will bring 10 thousand people to change government.
even i gave vote to imran. Brother there is a system to do things. you just do not go attack your parliament and threaten government to leave.
And what he has done to KP as far right now? Imran has chance to prove himself in KP, once he show his work in KP he will be next president.
Imran does not even know how to talk. what kind of language he was using.

Again i hate N league as well. I am just supporting system and pakistan. You do not get freedom by destroying your own country.

your post displays the problem with Pakistanis...they keep on asking what has he done in KPK? Because what you are looking for is bridges, metro buses, flyover. What you should be looking for is governance, education, depoliticized police...but for them the common man in Pakistan would have to be duly educated

 

[Vegitto1]

there is no way i supported Nawaz. i hate N league. i just support system. if these 10 thousand can change the government then tomorrow somebody else will come in power i will bring 10 thousand people to change government.
even i gave vote to imran. Brother there is a system to do things. you just do not go attack your parliament and threaten government to leave.
And what he has done to KP as far right now? Imran has chance to prove himself in KP, once he show his work in KP he will be next president.
Imran does not even know how to talk. what kind of language he was using.

Again i hate N league as well. I am just supporting system and pakistan. You do not get freedom by destroying your own country.

It isn't about bringing people to the capital. When all routes have been exhausted to get justice THEN you come out on the streets. And this should be the case for everyone.

A woman burnt herself alive because Police didn't register FIR of her rape case. Go tell her 'this is not the right way'

tell her that she should first:

Instruct a lawyer which she cannot afford
so she should now sell her body to raise money
then pay the lawyer and give bribes to get order form the court to have FIR registered
If after that FIR is registered
You may lose your case because Police in its report will label you a prostitute and YOU will be thrown in jail.

Imran Khan has depoliticised police in KPK. Has that happened in Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan?

 

[Vegitto1]

[utube]fKxFJ3y07pU#t=19[/utube]

13 October 2011 - PMLN leader Nawaz Sharif who was not an MNA at the time held a protest on the steps of Parliament.

Shame on the hypocrisy of PMLN and those who support it in any way or form.

 

[pakistanisgreat]

It isn't about bringing people to the capital. When all routes have been exhausted to get justice THEN you come out on the streets. And this should be the case for everyone.

A woman burnt herself alive because Police didn't register FIR of her rape case. Go tell her 'this is not the right way'

tell her that she should first:

Instruct a lawyer which she cannot afford
so she should now sell her body to raise money
then pay the lawyer and give bribes to get order form the court to have FIR registered
If after that FIR is registered
You may lose your case because Police in its report will label you a prostitute and YOU will be thrown in jail.

Imran Khan has depoliticised police in KPK. Has that happened in Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan?

how would we know imran would bring these changes???
i have not seen these changes in KP in one and half year ?? imran just dreaming of being president.
always follow system!!
does not matter who you are. tomorrow i will take my 10 thousand people tomorrow to kick PTI!!!

That's why pakistan is suffering because people like you in pakistan do not follow system. you guys are looking for short cut. please wait for your turn?

Thats just double standard of PTI why they did not come out when PPP was in government? why this government??

Again i am not N League support!

 

[blinding light]

What makes you convinced that the process will heal itself? Your whole position seems to pivoted on this.

It's a travesty and incredible that a man who is honest and at worst has poor table manners is equated with a fraud. I wonder how this can be rationalised at all, what is the cost to the country of an egomaniacal honest man of integrity who has sacrificed everything including offers of power, versus the cost to the country of a ex-con fraudster and nepotistic opportunist.

I don't understand either how it is taken as gospel that Imran is doing this out of an egotistical motivation. But that's a secondary issue in the face of the above two entirely unsubstantiated insanities.

No offence, but I have discussed this to death. You are welcome to read my posts in this thread for your answer, or read the 'death of democracy' thread where Indiafan has explained this point in great detail.

 

[blinding light]

lol I didn't ask for an explanation on them, just which one you would choose if they were the "only" options. Never mind.

You got my answer - none of them.

My answer matters diddly-squat anyhow.

 

[UsmanhailsAfridi]

how would we know imran would bring these changes???
i have not seen these changes in KP in one and half year ?? imran just dreaming of being president.
always follow system!!
does not matter who you are. tomorrow i will take my 10 thousand people tomorrow to kick PTI!!!

That's why pakistan is suffering because people like you in pakistan do not follow system. you guys are looking for short cut. please wait for your turn?

Thats just double standard of PTI why they did not come out when PPP was in government? why this government??

Again i am not N League support!

do you live in KPK? If not then how can you claim you haven't seen these changes? You can't really see the changes he wants to bring, you have to experience them. But then again as I said earlier the common man in Pakistan is programmed to see change in 'flyovers, metro buses etc.'

 

[Vegitto1]

[utube]fKxFJ3y07pU[/utube]

13 October 2011 - PMLN leader Nawaz Sharif who was not an MNA at the time held a protest on the steps of Parliament.

Hypocrisy exposed of PMLN and those who support it in any way or form.

 

[pakistanisgreat]

your post displays the problem with Pakistanis...they keep on asking what has he done in KPK? Because what you are looking for is bridges, metro buses, flyover. What you should be looking for is governance, education, depoliticized police...but for them the common man in Pakistan would have to be duly educated

did imran work on these things in KP? again show your work in KP in 5 years then go ahead rule entire country! you have to wait for your turn.
This is not T20 game or ODI. where game ends in one day! Politics is a Test match where you have to wait and need stamina.

 

[saj786]

These pathetic losers in the government ans their chamchay have no Intention of the betterment of the country, what worries These money scroungers is to deep fill their pockets ans avoid paying taxes which is lawfull in every democracy, imran had no alternative to Do this due to the most corrupt system

 

[Vegitto1]

how would we know imran would bring these changes???
i have not seen these changes in KP in one and half year ?? imran just dreaming of being president.
always follow system!!
does not matter who you are. tomorrow i will take my 10 thousand people tomorrow to kick PTI!!!

That's why pakistan is suffering because people like you in pakistan do not follow system. you guys are looking for short cut. please wait for your turn?

Thats just double standard of PTI why they did not come out when PPP was in government? why this government??

Again i am not N League support!

Because he has brought governance changes in KPK, that is how we know he will do it.

Because when he was captain of the team no match fixing took place but when he retired, the same players who were under him ended up being involved in match-fixing. This shows he is a strong leader and he has control.

He took his own cousin out of the team on merit even though he was big name. This shows he makes decision based on merit.

He built SKMH and it is the best run hospital in Pakistan where 70% patients are treated free, this shows that he knows how to select a team and provide governance.

His Tameer-E-School initiative in KPK is the most transparent and innovative idea in recent times.

And the biggest credit goes to his team for depoliticising the police in KPK - Do you know who KP IG is?

 

[Vegitto1]

So three MNAs from PMLN have no expressed their lack of confidence in Election tribunals. PTI stance vindicated from within PMLN

 

[UsmanhailsAfridi]

did imran work on these things in KP? again show your work in KP in 5 years then go ahead rule entire country! you have to wait for your turn.
This is not T20 game or ODI. where game ends in one day! Politics is a Test match where you have to wait and need stamina.

Why are you asking me? You are the one saying you don't see a change...how do you know his party hasn't been working on those thigns?

What he is doing in KPK has nothing to do with the fact that there was rigging in 2013 elections and he has been asking to put those who have done rigging, regardless of who they belong to, to task so that there is accountability and democracy can get better, free and fair. THat is why he is on the streets.

 

[pakistanisgreat]

Because he has brought governance changes in KPK, that is how we know he will do it.

Because when he was captain of the team no match fixing took place but when he retired, the same players who were under him ended up being involved in match-fixing. This shows he is a strong leader and he has control.

He took his own cousin out of the team on merit even though he was big name. This shows he makes decision based on merit.

He built SKMH and it is the best run hospital in Pakistan where 70% patients are treated free, this shows that he knows how to select a team and provide governance.

His Tameer-E-School initiative in KPK is the most transparent and innovative idea in recent times.

And the biggest credit goes to his team for depoliticising the police in KPK - Do you know who KP IG is?

please do not compare cricket to politics.
if these social activities are reason for being president. then i think Abdul Star Edhi deserve to be president of pakistan for life time!

I just understand your mentality! i will not post here anymore!

 

[Vegitto1]

please do not compare cricket to politics.
if these social activities are reason for being president. then i think Abdul Star Edhi deserve to be president of pakistan for life time!

I just understand your mentality! i will not post here anymore!

Ok! Ok! Ok! so tell me. Once allegedly completing his BA, How did Nawaz Sharif merit a place as finance minister? Explain to me what experience does Nawaz Sharif has to deliver anything.

 

[UsmanhailsAfridi]

please do not compare cricket to politics.
if these social activities are reason for being president. then i think Abdul Star Edhi deserve to be president of pakistan for life time!

I just understand your mentality! i will not post here anymore!

haha...thank you

 

[blinding light]

I'm genuinely curious to see how IK will save his face from this. This is not even am impasse, it's a straight up defeat from the look of things..

 

[pakistanisgreat]

Ok! Ok! Ok! so tell me. Once allegedly completing his BA, How did Nawaz Sharif merit a place as finance minister? Explain to me what experience does Nawaz Sharif has to deliver anything.

I am just doing against my words but let me clear..

Again as i said before i am not support of Nawaz. I gave vote to PTI!
But this is not a way to change things the way PTI doing!. Now after 20 days truth is coming up.
Imran should have waited 3 more years for his turn, instead of coming to street he should have focused on KP's development.
I personally wanted imran to be president.
Imran is just going against the system. I just request all of them please follow system! He could not even bring more 15 thousand people?

 

[pakistanisgreat]

I'm genuinely curious to see how IK will save his face from this. This is not even am impasse, it's a straight up defeat from the look of things..

he not even disappoint me but many others. what did he gain here?? he lost his support. he push himself into 20 years back. He himself to blame for all this.

 

[Vegitto1]

In Democracy, there are no turns!!!!!! How idiotic people sound when they say "Imran Khan should wait for his turn" as if democracy is about one party taking turn after the other.

This system has been hijacked by corrupt individuals who have broken it completely. It needs to be cleaned up and these same old faces need to be sent packing either a) to their homes b) to jails or c) to their graves.

After 20 days what truth is coming up? that PMLN rigged elections and stole the mandate of the people?

 

[Vegitto1]

I'm genuinely curious to see how IK will save his face from this. This is not even am impasse, it's a straight up defeat from the look of things..

Save face from what? that he stood up alone for our rights? He exposed to us the ugly face of those in Parliament - how they unite to save each other when they know their corrupt practices are at risk and they might no longer be able to suck the blood of Pakistanis?

Exposed how the PM disappears when true opposition leader SMQ makes a speech, only to reappear when after he has left?

If you can accept the likes of Benazir Zardari and Nawaz Sharif who have raped this country to no ends, then I think Imran Khan is a winner for standing for our rights and exposing the cancer within Pakistan, which is clearly PPP PMLN and Co. and their supporters

 

[the Great Khan]

I am just doing against my words but let me clear..

Again as i said before i am not support of Nawaz. I gave vote to PTI!
But this is not a way to change things the way PTI doing!. Now after 20 days truth is coming up.
Imran should have waited 3 more years for his turn, instead of coming to street he should have focused on KP's development.
I personally wanted imran to be president.
Imran is just going against the system. I just request all of them please follow system! He could not even bring more 15 thousand people?

Its quite clear that you fail to understand that the system is broken, its corrupt and will not allow someone like Imran to get in. Your next pm is bilawal Bhutto, you should just suck it up and accept it lol.

what Imran has done is exposed this fake assembly for what it is. A gathering of the corrupt and the crooked. The damage done with regards to the army is also telling. The ramifications of things will be felt for many years. Negotiations are continuing and we shall see what we get.

 

[the Great Khan]

Because he has brought governance changes in KPK, that is how we know he will do it.

Because when he was captain of the team no match fixing took place but when he retired, the same players who were under him ended up being involved in match-fixing. This shows he is a strong leader and he has control.

He took his own cousin out of the team on merit even though he was big name. This shows he makes decision based on merit.

He built SKMH and it is the best run hospital in Pakistan where 70% patients are treated free, this shows that he knows how to select a team and provide governance.

His Tameer-E-School initiative in KPK is the most transparent and innovative idea in recent times.

And the biggest credit goes to his team for depoliticising the police in KPK - Do you know who KP IG is?

stop , some of our so called awaam don't understand these things, they only see roads they cant travel on and buses that look pretty.

 

[pakistanisgreat]

Its quite clear that you fail to understand that the system is broken, its corrupt and will not allow someone like Imran to get in. Your next pm is bilawal Bhutto, you should just suck it up and accept it lol.

what Imran has done is exposed this fake assembly for what it is. A gathering of the corrupt and the crooked. The damage done with regards to the army is also telling. The ramifications of things will be felt for many years. Negotiations are continuing and we shall see what we get.

i know system is broken but system can not be fixed by few thousand people. imran can not fix entire system , he should have started to fix system from one side meaning KP. How did imran got eleted in KP? but again imran has no patience and his worker also.

 

[Badsha]

I'm genuinely curious to see how IK will save his face from this. This is not even am impasse, it's a straight up defeat from the look of things..

Unlike the people you support blinding light, IK is not your average politician. He isn't looking for face saving here or we would've accepted the revised points without Nawaz sharrifs resignation. He is standing for a principal and will stand for it no matter what. Standing for what's right is more important to people like us than winning.

 

[the Great Khan]

i know system is broken but system can not be fixed by few thousand people. imran can not fix entire system , he should have started to fix system from one side meaning KP. How did imran got eleted in KP? but again imran has no patience and his worker also.

then you fail to understand the basics. You win Punjab, you win Pakistan, its that simple. All you have to do is rig enough in Punjab and you can win your majority. He cant fix any system from KP, e.g. before the march the propaganda was "what has he done in kp? etc etc" then they laughed at his request for the chaar halka's, they then mocked his attempts at the tribunals, they then laughed even louder when he said he would come out on the streets. Well was the PM laughing today or yesterday? ab koan hus raha hay? Imran has shown he can bring his people out onto the streets, he has a strong govt in KP, he can mobilise. He just turned a rag tag movement into a part of the Pakistani consciousness. You have no idea what he has done.

 

[waqar goraya]

PM Nawaz Shareef and his Love for Geo News. Even in National Assembly he want to show it (Watch Full Video Clip)

<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="//www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x2545jr" allowfullscreen></iframe>​

This nexus has been exposed many a times )

 

[UsmanhailsAfridi]

I'm genuinely curious to see how IK will save his face from this. This is not even am impasse, it's a straight up defeat from the look of things..

what a terrible statement...you clearly don't understand anything about Imran Khan. If anything he knows how to lose and still find a way to get upto continue the fight. But to even think that how "he will save his face" when on the other side there is a long long list of idiots and crooks who have robbed the country in broad daylight, you are making quite a mockery of someone who is standing up for the basic rights of the people all the while you stand under the "I know it all about democracy so have moral high ground" umbrella.

 

[zimmz]

Pretty shameful of 'educated' person to declare defeat for the person standing up for the rights of others. Dharna was not about personal wins and loss but I see person of looser mentality who don't even know what 'win' is in term of their rights.
On the other hand it's understandable that people born in slavery will find it hard to come out of it.