"Put the learning away and go back to what's worked for you that got you to #1" : Mickey Arthur

[barah_admi]

What do you think would have been the result had Pakistan played a full-strength India?

Mate....listen, let us not go down this road of diversions yet again. I asked you what was circumstantial about Pakistan's run to the top in this format, you provided a ridiculous story, I countered with a simple paragraph, stating that Pakistan has played against several full strength sides and against some of the very best players in this format.

You either concede you were wrong/lied about Pakistan not having played the best and then move onto the topic of this so called "full strength" India side, whichever one that may be, or you try and answer my original question.

 

[Mamoon]

Mate....listen, let us not go down this road of diversions yet again. I asked you what was circumstantial about Pakistan's run to the top in this format, you provided a ridiculous story, I countered with a simple paragraph, stating that Pakistan has played against several full strength sides and against some of the very best players in this format.

You either concede you were wrong/lied about Pakistan not having played the best and then move onto the topic of this so called "full strength" India side, whichever one that may be, or you try and answer my original question.

I did answer your question. Should I apologize that it wasn’t to your liking?

 

[barah_admi]

I did answer your question. Should I apologize that it wasn’t to your liking?

You know you failed at answering it, in fact another thread on here proves my point even further. In fact, you know you tried lying and thought you could get away, so much so that you had to bring india into the debate.

I'll ask again, what was circumstantial?

 

[Mamoon]

You know you failed at answering it, in fact another thread on here proves my point even further. In fact, you know you tried lying and thought you could get away, so much so that you had to bring india into the debate.

I'll ask again, what was circumstantial?

I am sorry if my response was not to the level you expected. However, I will oblige again.

Pakistan’s unbeaten started against England in 2016. After hammering us in the first four ODIs, England took their foot off the pedal (in typical English style) and we picked up two cheap wins in the 5th ODI and the one-off T20.

That one-off meant nothing after we got thrashed in the ODI series.

We followed it up with a dozen T20s against West Indies in the Caribbean and the UAE. Their players struggle considerably on slow tracks. Moreover, it wasn’t their first- choice side as some of the players that won them the WT20 2016 were unavailable.

Pakistan then went on to beat Sri Lanka reserves and the World XI in Pakistan. The World XI had some good players, but World XIs usually do not perform as well as national sides.

They lack motivation and intensity and there is no chemistry between the players. They were basically exhibition matches.

Then we went to beat New Zealand away after getting whitewashed in humiliation fashion in the ODI series. However, thus far, it was our only impressive. Nevertheless, New Zealand best T20 batsman (Munro) did not play in the series decider.

That was followed by a tri-series vs Australia and Zimbabwe and minnow-bashing against Scotland.

Australia had a weakened squad because of the absence of Warner, Smith, Starc and Cummins.

That was followed by successive series wins against Australia again and New Zealand in the UAE.

Australia were yet again without Warner, Smith, Starc and Cummins.

New Zealand were without Guptill and Boult.

So there you have it - our number 1 ranking was a work of fiction and purely circumstantial.

It was built on cheap wins against under-strength sides. Hardly 2-3 wins during our so-called unbeaten runs can be deemed as impressive.

Anyone who thinks Pakistan were the best T20 international side in the world during the 2016-2018 period does not understand cricket.

 

[Titan24]

Amir has world class moments.
Imad is not a world class all rounder. Top batters can play him with ease.
Shaheen is talented, needs time to develop.
Shadab can’t even put 2 balls in the same spot. His batting in LO is a joke. Far from world class.

Stats of last 2-3 years will repesent all of the good and bad moments which you can see and if they are better than most players around than that is world class numbers in T20 format.

An economy of 6.99 (From Shadab) in international T20s, if thats not extraordinary than I dont know what is. He definitely needs to improve to become a good international spinner but when we talk about T20s he has much better economies that almost all the leggies around.

You have just your judgement and opinions to back your points and not any numbers or stats so I guess we should just agree to disagree on this point.

 

[barah_admi]

I am sorry if my response was not to the level you expected. However, I will oblige again.

Pakistan’s unbeaten started against England in 2016. After hammering us in the first four ODIs, England took their foot off the pedal (in typical English style) and we picked up two cheap wins in the 5th ODI and the one-off T20.

That one-off meant nothing after we got thrashed in the ODI series.

We followed it up with a dozen T20s against West Indies in the Caribbean and the UAE. Their players struggle considerably on slow tracks. Moreover, it wasn’t their first- choice side as some of the players that won them the WT20 2016 were unavailable.

Pakistan then went on to beat Sri Lanka reserves and the World XI in Pakistan. The World XI had some good players, but World XIs usually do not perform as well as national sides.

They lack motivation and intensity and there is no chemistry between the players. They were basically exhibition matches.

Then we went to beat New Zealand away after getting whitewashed in humiliation fashion in the ODI series. However, thus far, it was our only impressive. Nevertheless, New Zealand best T20 batsman (Munro) did not play in the series decider.

That was followed by a tri-series vs Australia and Zimbabwe and minnow-bashing against Scotland.

Australia had a weakened squad because of the absence of Warner, Smith, Starc and Cummins.

That was followed by successive series wins against Australia again and New Zealand in the UAE.

Australia were yet again without Warner, Smith, Starc and Cummins.

New Zealand were without Guptill and Boult.

So there you have it - our number 1 ranking was a work of fiction and purely circumstantial.

It was built on cheap wins against under-strength sides. Hardly 2-3 wins during our so-called unbeaten runs can be deemed as impressive.

Anyone who thinks Pakistan were the best T20 international side in the world during the 2016-2018 period does not understand cricket.

I was about to make a list of all the top t20 players Pakistan played against a beat...then stopped, because it has already been done. You keep claiming the Windies side was weak but it wasnt. They were world number ones and missed some players due to injuries and contract disputes, along with temporary retirements/strops. Those players that Pakistan played against...carried on to play for the Windies after and beat many other t20 sides.

The sames goes for Pakistan beating good sides such as NZ and so on.

On top of that, you keep claiming to know the psychological make up of ALL the players and teams Pakistan played against. So you know none of them were motivated but as soon as the clocks ticked over to late 2019, they have become motivated?

Can you show me just one statement, from any player or captain which played against Pakistan where they say "we did not take the T20 matches seriously and will not do so till after the 50 over world cup"?

Oh, and you are also negating the fact that Pakistan in this time featured teenagers and debutants, with Babar, Shadab, Shaheen, Hasan, Raees, Fakhar and co all making debuts and beating far more experienced cricketers. Can you explain that one too? Surely the other teams must have been the weakest teams in the history of the sport to have lost to useless debutants right?

 

[Boiz Played Well]

Stats of last 2-3 years will repesent all of the good and bad moments which you can see and if they are better than most players around than that is world class numbers in T20 format.

An economy of 6.99 (From Shadab) in international T20s, if thats not extraordinary than I dont know what is. He definitely needs to improve to become a good international spinner but when we talk about T20s he has much better economies that almost all the leggies around.

You have just your judgement and opinions to back your points and not any numbers or stats so I guess we should just agree to disagree on this point.

Shadab may have gone out of form of late, but that doesn't reflect his stats of the past 2-3 years.



His better economy numbers came against Australian and NZ line ups with the likes of Maxwell, Lynn, Finch, Short, Guptill, Munro, Williamson, Taylor etc. He has a fairly high econ vs. SL but he more than makes up for it in ODIs against them. The one opposition he has had trouble against in both limited overs formats is SA. He hasn't played against either ENG or IND in T20s so that's an unknown that could go either way.

Present day Shadab is having quite a few bad days. Whether he is able to maintain those numbers remains to be seen. I'm not optimistic just yet.

 

[Mueez]

We beat West Indies in West Indies. Sarfraz's second series as captain. Look it up.

Back in those days, when Shadab used to utilize his googly...

Remember him clean-bowling Pollard.

Wonder why he doesn’t use it anymore.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Let's not mix up two different things. Misbah may be the worst coach in the world but it does not make Mickey an excellent coach.

This is the team Mickey played in the last T-20 against South Africa.

1. Fakhar
2. Babar
3. Rizwan (only because Sarfraz was banned)
4. Malik
5. Talat
6. Asif
7. Imad
8. Faheem
9. Shadab
10. Aamir
11. Shaheen

Misbah went with almost identical teams against Sri Lanka and Australia.

What does it even mean to go back to what worked unless Mickey is hinting at going back to Hafeez and Malik?