Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah portrait controversy in India

[PakLFC]

Indians are fighting over Quaid Jinnah's portrait that has vanished in Hyderabad Muslim university. It all started when the university refused to remove it that upset many people. Now they are saying that it has only been temporarily removed making all sorts of excuses to justify it. Strangely, our Quaid Jinnah's portrait is the only one that has gone missing not Gandhi or Nehru's. Meanwhile, as expected Hindu fundo's are making all sorts of threats.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Where in india is the hyderabad muslim university?

Funny to see BJP affiliated groups having a problem with his portrait, as they believe in the TNT. It is the congress who should have a problem, as their narrative is to show nehru and gandhi as the good guys.

 

[Hermoine Green]

I would hate it if there is Gandhi's portrait in any of Pakistan's school college or University.

So i won't blame Indians for this.

 

[Hitman]

I would hate it if there is Gandhi's portrait in any of Pakistan's school college or University.

So i won't blame Indians for this.

Why? Gandhi fought for the independence of whole of India, not just Hindus. And he was extremely sympathetic and caring towards Muslims in general.

 

[PakLFC]

I would hate it if there is Gandhi's portrait in any of Pakistan's school college or University.

So i won't blame Indians for this.

I agree. I don't want to see Gandhi or Nehru's pic in Pakistan at all neither were they much to look at. The funny thing here is that many Indian's on this site believe MA Jinnah did nothing to divide India! India can burn Quaid Jinnah's portrait for what most Pakistanis care. It is hilarious to see Indian people fight over a man who died almost 70 years back and compare him to Hitler!

 

[Waseem]

I would hate it if there is Gandhi's portrait in any of Pakistan's school college or University.

So i won't blame Indians for this.

I would have no problem with Gandhi, would hate to see Modi's portrait though.

Indians are usually brainwashed about Mr Jinnah so much that they see/think nothing but negative about him.

 

[PakLFC]

Quaid must be laughing his head off!!: India has gone mad over Quaid's portrait doing many programmes on this issue))))

 

[PakLFC]

I would have no problem with Gandhi, would hate to see Modi's portrait though.

Indians are usually brainwashed about Mr Jinnah so much that they see/think nothing but negative about him.

I would never insult Gandhi or Nehru portrait if they were hanging in Pakistan but prefer they were not there. This is the difference between us and them that they still can't get over the past. Then Indian's say "we are not obsessed with Pakistan":yshah1.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Indians focus on Q-e-A post 1937, thanks to Congress approved curriculum. If they knew about pre 1937 Q-e-A, there would be better appreciation for him.

 

[Hitman]

Nehru? I'd prefer not to have any portraits of him even in India. Gandhi was a noble soul though. Loved every Indian equally irrespective of religion, and did nothing for himself his entire life.

 

[Mian]

Protests, Clashes In Aligarh Muslim University Over Muhammad Ali Jinnah Portrait

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/ali...hes-over-muhammad-ali-jinnah-portrait-1846206

At the heart of the clash is a photo of Muhammad Ali Jinnah, which has been hanging at the Aligarh Mulsim University's student union hall for years.

At least 28 students were injured in police lathicharge on Wednesday at the prestigious Aligarh Muslim University, which has been witnessing a row over a decades-old photograph of Pakistan founder and freedom fighter Muhammad Ali Jinnah.

Earlier on Wednesday, Rapid Action Force of the Uttar Pradesh police was deployed after students and some right-wing activists almost came to blows. The right-wing activists were demanding the removal of Jinnah's photo, to which the students objected.

Later in the evening, hundreds of students tried to march to the local police station, where the activists had been confined. Unable to control them, the RAF men used force, sources said. The clash took place at the university's main gate.

"Most injuries are caused by blunt objects like cane. Some students have sustained head injuries, some just bruises. Scans and X-rays have been conducted in most cases, reports are awaited," a doctor told NDTV.

At the heart of the clash is a photo of Muhammad Ali Jinnah, which has been hanging at the University's student union hall for years.


On Monday, Satish Gautam, the BJP lawmaker from Aligarh, wrote to university vice-chancellor Tariq Mansoor, asking why the portrait was allowed. AMU spokesman Shafey Kidwai responded that Jinnah was a founder of the university and was granted life membership of the student union.

"Traditionally, photographs of all life members are placed on the walls of the student union," he told news agency Press Trust of India. "Jinnah was accorded life membership of the AMU students' union in 1938. He was the founder member of the University Court in 1920 and also a donor," he added.

The controversy coincided with a visit by former Vice-President Hamid Ansari, who was a professor as well as a vice chancellor of the university.

Hundreds of students of the university are currently sitting at the main gate of the university, demanding action against members of right-wing organisations.

University officials are believed to have taken down Mr Jinnah's portrait for now. There is no official word on it, but sources say many other portraits have been taken down as well for cleaning.

UP minister Swami Prasad Maurya, formerly with the BSP, questioned the controversy over Mr Jinnah. "It is shameful for anyone to point a finger at great leaders who contributed towards nation-building," he said in a statement.

 

[Mian]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is a picture of Gandhi's statue at the Islamabad Museum.<br><br>Jinnah did far more for the Indian Freedom Movement than the entire RSS put to together. He was a freedom fighter both India and Pakistan should be proud of.<br><br>We need to overcome and outgrow our hatred and ignorance. <a href="https://t.co/0SB7eoEhNa">pic.twitter.com/0SB7eoEhNa</a></p>— Sanjiv Bhatt (IPS) (@sanjivbhatt) <a href="https://twitter.com/sanjivbhatt/status/991920155348357120?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 3, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Jinnah was neither a student nor a teacher of Alig Its a shame that his portrait is there The administration n students should voluntarily remove it from there n those who were protesting against this portrait should now protest against the temples made to honour Godse.</p>— Javed Akhtar (@Javedakhtarjadu) <a href="https://twitter.com/Javedakhtarjadu/status/991927443047895040?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 3, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[sshakir411]

Over a picture? That's freaking extreme....

 

[DeadBall]

Good to see that at least the educated youth have got their priorities right.

 

[Mian]

Over a picture? That's freaking extreme....

From calling Tipu a tyrant to removing Jinnah picture from a university thats an upgrade for hindu nationalists

 

[Loralai]

Completely absurd.

It has been there for years and should remain there. Hopefully they will not pander to these extremists as we have chosen to do in our nation.

 

[Suleiman]

Yet another day in a failed state.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Aligarh Muslim University is a hotbed of fundamentalists and extremists. Few years ago they forced a gay professor to commit suicide.

 

[www787]

Alright, Let's repeat the same, which will be ignorantly denied by the usual BJP supporters on Pakpassion.

India is fast exposing itself as an intolerant state, it always has been, but now, its on the surface, no one is even trying to hide it.

It seems, BJP = RSS, are still upset that they can't control over 200 million muslims. Thank You, MR. Jinnah for that.

Alright BJP supporters on pakpassion, let's go on with your usual defense, "no western country care; India has more money; our courtry our rules; Gambir helped won us two world cup", or hide away from this thread.

 

[sshakir411]

Alright, Let's repeat the same, which will be ignorantly denied by the usual BJP supporters on Pakpassion.

India is fast exposing itself as an intolerant state, it always has been, but now, its on the surface, no one is even trying to hide it.

It seems, BJP = RSS, are still upset that they can't control over 200 million muslims. Thank You, MR. Jinnah for that.

Alright BJP supporters on pakpassion, let's go on with your usual defense, "no western country care; India has more money; our courtry our rules; Gambir helped won us two world cup", or hide away from this thread.

Some educated Indians I personally know are defending this on facebook. An Indian doctor even said...."Jinnah was not even a true Muslim so Pakistan is a false state"...It's hard to believe that such one dimensional view that exists in India regarding Pakistan isn't taught to them at a young age..i.e in school.

 

[akki]

Why would those university muslims fight for Mr jinnah statue ?
What will happen if there is Modi statue in hindus university in pakistan and hindus fight for that statue ?

 

[www787]

Why would those university muslims fight for Mr jinnah statue ?
What will happen if there is Modi statue in hindus university in pakistan and hindus fight for that statue ?

Pakistani Hindu’s aren’t delusional like BJP supporters. So, this will never happened.

You get an A+ for an attempt tho.

 

[akki]

Pakistani Hindu’s aren’t delusional like BJP supporters. So, this will never happened.

You get an A+ for an attempt tho.

Our opinion on the person whose statue is on question is same as your opinion on modi. Betweem nice respect given to pakistani hindus by you ,if any of them are remaining. I hope their numbers also increase in future there...
But you dodged the question why would university muslims sipport the statue as you said hindus in pakistan will never support modi statue

 

[www787]

Our opinion on the person whose statue is on question is same as your opinion on modi. Betweem nice respect given to pakistani hindus by you ,if any of them are remaining. I hope their numbers also increase in future there...
But you dodged the question why would university muslims sipport the statue as you said hindus in pakistan will never support modi statue

My business partner in Pakistan is hindu, one of my close friend is hindu, i grew up with hindu. But, your comments is a clear example that you have been turned into ignorant anything related to Pakistan.

For anyone to support your hypothetical question, one need to have any respect and support.

Again, double A+ for an effort.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Alright, Let's repeat the same, which will be ignorantly denied by the usual BJP supporters on Pakpassion.

India is fast exposing itself as an intolerant state, it always has been, but now, its on the surface, no one is even trying to hide it.

It seems, BJP = RSS, are still upset that they can't control over 200 million muslims. Thank You, MR. Jinnah for that.

Alright BJP supporters on pakpassion, let's go on with your usual defense, "no western country care; India has more money; our courtry our rules; Gambir helped won us two world cup", or hide away from this thread.

MA Jinnah is widely seen as the person because of whom millions of Indians or their ancestors had to leave their birth place. In my city he is seen as the man who was responsible for the death of 1000s during direct action day riots. Why the portrait of such a man be allowed in a place of honour inside a university funded by Tax payers money?

This has nothing to do with BJP or RSS or Congress or anyone else. This is a matter that hits at sentiments of miliions of Indians.

Across the world statues or portraits of personalities have been taken down as they have been considered offensive by local population.

 

[akki]

My business partner in Pakistan is hindu, one of my close friend is hindu, i grew up with hindu. But, your comments is a clear example that you have been turned into ignorant anything related to Pakistan.

For anyone to support your hypothetical question, one need to have any respect and support.

Again, double A+ for an effort.

For us indians Mr jinnah is the one who didnt like the idea of india. I am proudly one ,hardly give a damn if some sickular or jihadis or anyone call me rss supporter or bjp, who doesnt want Mr jinnah statue or anything in india.

 

[www787]

MA Jinnah is widely seen as the person because of whom millions of Indians or their ancestors had to leave their birth place. In my city he is seen as the man who was responsible for the death of 1000s during direct action day riots. Why the portrait of such a man be allowed in a place of honour inside a university funded by Tax payers money?

This has nothing to do with BJP or RSS or Congress or anyone else. This is a matter that hits at sentiments of miliions of Indians.

Across the world statues or portraits of personalities have been taken down as they have been considered offensive by local population.

And I thank Jinnah for all that, If it wasn't for him then I'd be told to be subservient.

 

[www787]

For us indians Mr jinnah is the one who didnt like the idea of india. I am proudly one ,hardly give a damn if some sickular or jihadis or anyone call me rss supporter or bjp, who doesnt want Mr jinnah statue or anything in india.

It wasn't just Mr. Jinnah, he had lots of support

 

[cricketjoshila]

And I thank Jinnah for all that, If it wasn't for him then I'd be told to be subservient.

You can thank MA Jinnah or whatever you want. Thats your thing. Thats has nothing to do with the thread.

 

[www787]

For us indians Mr jinnah is the one who didnt like the idea of india. I am proudly one ,hardly give a damn if some sickular or jihadis or anyone call me rss supporter or bjp, who doesnt want Mr jinnah statue or anything in india.

I respect you for openly supporting radical extremist group, RSS. Most usually deny supporting such fringe groups

 

[www787]

You can thank MA Jinnah or whatever you want. Thats your thing. Thats has nothing to do with the thread.

It has everything to do with Jinnah. Because criticizing Pakistan and muslims narrative that has been popular to fetch votes.

 

[cricketjoshila]

It has everything to do with Jinnah. Because criticizing Pakistan and muslims narrative that has been popular to fetch votes.

This has nothing to do with votes.

 

[akki]

I respect you for openly supporting radical extremist group, RSS. Most usually deny supporting such fringe groups

Thanks ,i appreciate your praise. I 100 percent support rss on this matter. Yes i like to give my honest opinions on any matter,surely not a hypocrite.

Between i will also appreciate you if you stop being my examiner and giving me a and a plus grades and start giving answers to the questions asked.

 

[Snak3eye5]

Yet another day in a failed state.

(Rolls eyes ) Says person belonging to an awesome state where prime minister has yet to complete a term without getting jailed, murdered, driven into exile etc etc etc where Worlds most wanted terrorist called it his second home, living next door to the army who pretty much runs the affairs of the whole State. Okay I’m very jealous

 

[www787]

Thanks ,i appreciate your praise. I 100 percent support rss on this matter. Yes i like to give my honest opinions on any matter,surely not a hypocrite.

Between i will also appreciate you if you stop being my examiner and giving me a and a plus grades and start giving answers to the questions asked.

what was your question?

 

[akki]

what was your question?

That's what happen when you dnt even want to listen to others.

 

[DRsohail]

Why? Gandhi fought for the independence of whole of India, not just Hindus. And he was extremely sympathetic and caring towards Muslims in general.

i would like his prtrait anywhere in pakistan...and will like the same for that of jiannah to be in inida...

 

[DRsohail]

MA Jinnah is widely seen as the person because of whom millions of Indians or their ancestors had to leave their birth place. In my city he is seen as the man who was responsible for the death of 1000s during direct action day riots. Why the portrait of such a man be allowed in a place of honour inside a university funded by Tax payers money?

This has nothing to do with BJP or RSS or Congress or anyone else. This is a matter that hits at sentiments of miliions of Indians.

Across the world statues or portraits of personalities have been taken down as they have been considered offensive by local population.

blame and do whatever you want but it wll never be considered a good gesture.i hope y understand.i always find you supporting bad things whiich sometime really surprises me .

 

[pakistan cricket fan]

(Rolls eyes ) Says person belonging to an awesome state where prime minister has yet to complete a term without getting jailed, murdered, driven into exile etc etc etc where Worlds most wanted terrorist called it his second home, living next door to the army who pretty much runs the affairs of the whole State. Okay I’m very jealous &#55357;&#56396;

Was it you that opent a thread that Pakistan will win against India in 2013 Champions Trophy. So you are indian pretending to be Pakistani at that time

 

[www787]

That's what happen when you dnt even want to listen to others.

No Mr. Sentiment, I tried to ignore your question because it did not made sense, but then you asked again so I answered.

Now, why would any Hindu in Pakistan or university have Modi’s pic? First, Hindu of Pakistan aren’t hardline religious extremists and they aren’t the member of RSS, none of them support Modi. Second their is no history related to Modi with the Hindu of Pakistan.

 

[Pakistanian]

Ive heard his grandkids live in India

 

[akki]

No Mr. Sentiment, I tried to ignore your question because it did not made sense, but then you asked again so I answered.

Now, why would any Hindu in Pakistan or university have Modi’s pic? First, Hindu of Pakistan aren’t hardline religious extremists and they aren’t the member of RSS, none of them support Modi. Second their is no history related to Modi with the Hindu of Pakistan.

So what ? That's what i said hindus in pakistan are not hardliners and they wont support modi who is according to you is some extremist ,similarly those university muslims should not support the person statue who didnt like the idea of india and had a great role in breaking of bhaarat.
Is this difficult to understand ?

 

[www787]

So what ? That's what i said hindus in pakistan are not hardliners and they wont support modi who is according to you is some extremist ,similarly those university muslims should not support the person statue who didnt like the idea of india and had a great role in breaking of bhaarat.
Is this difficult to understand ?

Yes it is. it is a well know point, I’m sure you’ll find many people outside of India and within India , excluding Pakistan coming to conclusion he was a hardline right wing Hindu extremists who had a role in killing of innocent Indian minority and was democratically elected by the people of India.

Jinnah fought for the right of the minority. So comparing two is quite stupid but I understand the desperation.

One was accused for killing minority and the other was fighting for the minority rights.

But, yea I understand that RSS is still upset about breaking India into three pieces.

 

[akki]

Yes it is. it is a well know point, I’m sure you’ll find many people outside of India and within India , excluding Pakistan coming to conclusion he was a hardline right wing Hindu extremists who had a role in killing of innocent Indian minority and was democratically elected by the people of India.

Jinnah fought for the right of the minority. So comparing two is quite stupid but I understand the desperation.

One was accused for killing minority and the other was fighting for the minority rights.

But, yea I understand that RSS is still upset about breaking India into three pieces.

Rights of minority in the country where minorties hardly have any rigjts ? He didnt like idea of india and his idealogy and statue has no place in india ...thanks but no thanks.
Between there is a difference between accussed and reality. Pakistan opinion on that will never mattter.

 

[www787]

Rights of minority in the country where minorties hardly have any rigjts ? He didnt like idea of india and his idealogy and statue has no place in india ...thanks but no thanks.
Between there is a difference between accussed and reality. Pakistan opinion on that will never mattter.

That’s why I said, “excluding Pakistan”

First one to admit, Pakistan needs to do much more to protect and give more rights to minority, and In Sha’ Allah, Pakistan will. And, the way things are going in India, I wouldn’t be surprised if Pakistan achieve that before India.

 

[akki]

That’s why I said, “excluding Pakistan”

First one to admit, Pakistan needs to do much more to protect and give more rights to minority, and In Sha’ Allah, Pakistan will. And, the way things are going in India, I wouldn’t be surprised if Pakistan achieve that before India.

Good luck.

 

[cricketjoshila]

blame and do whatever you want but it wll never be considered a good gesture.i hope y understand.i always find you supporting bad things whiich sometime really surprises me .

Cecil Rhodes statue was taken down. Lenin statues were taken down. Various statues of British personalities were taken down in India. Times change. One country's hero may be another country's villain.

Its nothing good or bad. Shift the portrait to some museum or to the Pak High commision if they want it.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Ive heard his grandkids live in India

Yes and own a IPL team. His daughter married a Parsi and rejected the idea of moving to Pakistan.

 

[Pakistanian]

Yes and own a IPL team. His daughter married a Parsi and rejected the idea of moving to Pakistan.

I've heard them say good things about Jinnah though, so I wonder how they feel about all this anti-jinnah sentiment.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I've heard them say good things about Jinnah though, so I wonder how they feel about all this anti-jinnah sentiment.

Why will anyone say bad things about their own grandfather and great grand father?

 

[PakLFC]

The idea of the two nation theory had been flaunted much before MA Jinnah came about. He was just determined to fulfil what was eventually going to happen one way or another. He like many others did not want to live under Hindu rule, ever! We wanted and took our own country, simple!. No doubt Pak has to treat it's minorities better but the situation is no way near as bad as Indian people seem to think. Indians use this excuse to justify their cruelty on their minorities. Pakistanis are not stopping Indian's from removing, burning or even returning the portrait to Pakistan. I wonder why the portrait that has been hanging there for 80 years or something has never bothered them before? It is all politics, their politicians are using this issue as a ploy for the 2019 elections..

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Thank You, Jinnah! This guy literally saved us from a slaved existence.

 

[DRsohail]

Cecil Rhodes statue was taken down. Lenin statues were taken down. Various statues of British personalities were taken down in India. Times change. One country's hero may be another country's villain.

Its nothing good or bad. Shift the portrait to some museum or to the Pak High commision if they want it.

I said do what u want and can but one wrong does not make another wrong right.Jinnah will remain same Quaid E Azam for us does not matter if his portrait remains in India or not .

 

[Bewal Express]

It makes no difference- let the Inds feel proud of such petty acts.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I said do what u want and can but one wrong does not make another wrong right.Jinnah will remain same Quaid E Azam for us does not matter if his portrait remains in India or not .

Its not about what he is in Pakistan. Its about what he is in India.

 

[sshakir411]

Jinnah is an important part of Indian history. Indians can denounce him and continue on their smear campaign...doesn't change the fact that he was an Indian who fought for the rights of millions.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Hindutva morons are sullying the reputation of India every passing day. How can anyone justify mob attacks on students? If they had a problem they should have pushed for it in a civilized manner. And is it UP police or UP mafia under the sorry excuse of a chief minister who hides behind the robes of a monk? Don't the uniformed goons have children of their own or are they consumed in so much hatred that they don't mind beating up college students who were exercising their right of democratic protest in a peaceful manner?

Reg Mr Jinnah we Indians have been given an untrue picture of him. Till 1920 he was on the same page as Gandhiji/Nehruji-all Congressmen. He left Congress but intensified his calls for a separate country much later, Hindutva founders were harping on about it even in 1920 btw. Mr Jinnah had a secular outlook, Sanghis should read about how he defended Lokmanya Tilak who was charged with sedition by the Brits, got the great Indian icon (also the tallest Hindu icon before Bapu) acquittal. How things unfolded later is tragic but the Pakistani founder was right in the sense that Hindus and Muslims are incapable of living together peacefully. You only have to look at Pakistan, Bangladesh and India (post 1992, amplified post 2014) to understand what a great visionary he was. Our history books have painted him as a villain and may be Pak textbooks paint Gandhiji/Nehruji as villains. But all these legendary men were right in their own way and made sacrifices the extremists on either side of the border are simply incapable of making. I also believe that had Mr Jinnah been in power for 15 years (like Nehruji) Pakistan would have taken a different route for the better. He was like Nehruji, a well educated, liberal, rational, tolerant man unlike those who followed him.

Also why this fascination with tearing out portraits, breaking statues, defacing paintings etc by Hindutva followers? Can they ever make a portrait or sculpture? They only know how to destroy stuff, not how to create things. In this vein they are similar to Taliban and hardcore mullahs who destroy priceless stuff. Ever since Bharat Jalao Party has ascended the throne India is experiencing great deal of hatred, suspicion, violence, fake news, etc. All the negative energy being created must precipitate somewhere, I just pray that we don't have large scale destruction/suffering because of build up of all this hatred. I urge fellow Indians to do some soul searching before 2019, I am sure Bengalis, Tamils and Malayalis will use their ballot wisely, future of India depends on the hands of our brethren from Hindi heartland and Western India.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Reg Mr Jinnah we Indians have been given an untrue picture of him. Till 1920 he was on the same page as Gandhiji/Nehruji-all Congressmen. He left Congress but intensified his calls for a separate country much later, Hindutva founders were harping on about it even in 1920 btw. Mr Jinnah had a secular outlook, Sanghis should read about how he defended Lokmanya Tilak who was charged with sedition by the Brits, got the great Indian icon (also the tallest Hindu icon before Bapu) acquittal. How things unfolded later is tragic but the Pakistani founder was right in the sense that Hindus and Muslims are incapable of living together peacefully. You only have to look at Pakistan, Bangladesh and India (post 1992, amplified post 2014) to understand what a great visionary he was. Our history books have painted him as a villain and may be Pak textbooks paint Gandhiji/Nehruji as villains. But all these legendary men were right in their own way and made sacrifices the extremists on either side of the border are simply incapable of making. I also believe that had Mr Jinnah been in power for 15 years (like Nehruji) Pakistan would have taken a different route for the better. He was like Nehruji, a well educated, liberal, rational, tolerant man unlike those who followed him.

One objection with your post. Don't use mohandas gandhi's and jawaharlal nehru's name with Q-e-Azam's. Especially mohandas.

 

[Swashbuckler]

One objection with your post. Don't use mohandas gandhi's and jawaharlal nehru's name with Q-e-Azam's. Especially mohandas.

Why? Gandhiji was a great leader IMO. If you don't like him too bad. For me both Gandhiji and Panditji are heroes.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Why? Gandhiji was a great leader IMO. If you don't like him too bad. For me both Gandhiji and Panditji are heroes.

Are you up for a debate on Mohandas Gandhi?

 

[Swashbuckler]

Are you up for a debate on Mohandas Gandhi?

A bit short of time for debate. May be later.

 

[www787]

Hindutva morons are sullying the reputation of India every passing day. How can anyone justify mob attacks on students? If they had a problem they should have pushed for it in a civilized manner. And is it UP police or UP mafia under the sorry excuse of a chief minister who hides behind the robes of a monk? Don't the uniformed goons have children of their own or are they consumed in so much hatred that they don't mind beating up college students who were exercising their right of democratic protest in a peaceful manner?

Reg Mr Jinnah we Indians have been given an untrue picture of him. Till 1920 he was on the same page as Gandhiji/Nehruji-all Congressmen. He left Congress but intensified his calls for a separate country much later, Hindutva founders were harping on about it even in 1920 btw. Mr Jinnah had a secular outlook, Sanghis should read about how he defended Lokmanya Tilak who was charged with sedition by the Brits, got the great Indian icon (also the tallest Hindu icon before Bapu) acquittal. How things unfolded later is tragic but the Pakistani founder was right in the sense that Hindus and Muslims are incapable of living together peacefully. You only have to look at Pakistan, Bangladesh and India (post 1992, amplified post 2014) to understand what a great visionary he was. Our history books have painted him as a villain and may be Pak textbooks paint Gandhiji/Nehruji as villains. But all these legendary men were right in their own way and made sacrifices the extremists on either side of the border are simply incapable of making. I also believe that had Mr Jinnah been in power for 15 years (like Nehruji) Pakistan would have taken a different route for the better. He was like Nehruji, a well educated, liberal, rational, tolerant man unlike those who followed him.

Also why this fascination with tearing out portraits, breaking statues, defacing paintings etc by Hindutva followers? Can they ever make a portrait or sculpture? They only know how to destroy stuff, not how to create things. In this vein they are similar to Taliban and hardcore mullahs who destroy priceless stuff. Ever since Bharat Jalao Party has ascended the throne India is experiencing great deal of hatred, suspicion, violence, fake news, etc. All the negative energy being created must precipitate somewhere, I just pray that we don't have large scale destruction/suffering because of build up of all this hatred. I urge fellow Indians to do some soul searching before 2019, I am sure Bengalis, Tamils and Malayalis will use their ballot wisely, future of India depends on the hands of our brethren from Hindi heartland and Western India.

went to school in Pakistan, not once Gandhi was made out to be the Villan as Indian do about Jinnah and Pakistan. Sadly, it has continue, BJP narrative against Muslims and Pakistani to fetch votes. Sometimes it is shocking to hear some Indian talking about Pakistan. Like, do you know Internet exist?

Was only taught, Jinnah understood that Muslims of India needed a separate land and government due to obvious reasons. A valid reason.

The only thing that was taught against India was oppression of Kashmiri, killing of innocents of Kashmiri, rape and injustice of people of Kashmir by Indian army and government, which is true.

 

[CricketCartoons]

went to school in Pakistan, not once Gandhi was made out to be the Villan as Indian do about Jinnah and Pakistan. Sadly, it has continue, BJP narrative against Muslims and Pakistani to fetch votes. Sometimes it is shocking to hear some Indian talking about Pakistan. Like, do you know Internet exist?

Was only taught, Jinnah understood that Muslims of India needed a separate land and government due to obvious reasons. A valid reason.

The only thing that was taught against India was oppression of Kashmiri, killing of innocents of Kashmiri, rape and injustice of people of Kashmir by Indian army and government, which is true.

There is no reason for Pakistan to paint Mohandas Gandhi as a villain. It was not like he called a direct action day opposing the creation of Pakistan. He only harmed India's cause and India is still paying the price for this so called Mahatma.

 

[Syed1]

Most native Pakistani posters that you find on here belong to middle to upper middle class and majority of those go through the O/A level education system which is administered by the Cambridge University in UK. Therefore the history they study is one that is deemed by the Cambridge University to be accurate and hence the question of Pakistani curriculum swaying opinion of kids does not even arise atleast with respect to posters on PP. Maybe that is one of the reasons why you find the Pakistani folks on here to be more balanced while the products of Indian biased curriculum appear to be quite nationalistic.


As for Gandhi, in our history books he is made out to be an upright, statesman who fought for what is right. His hunger strike to give newly formed state of Pakistan her due amount (which was being withheld by India) was very well regarded in our books. Nehru was the one who is generally made out to be the "bad" guy for plethora of reasons.

 

[www787]

There is no reason for Pakistan to paint Mohandas Gandhi as a villain. It was not like he called a direct action day opposing the creation of Pakistan. He only harmed India's cause and India is still paying the price for this so called Mahatma.

None what so ever, and there isn't any reason to hate Jinnah or removal his statue/pic from Indian history unless you are hard line, right wing, hindu extremist, still holding a grudge of not being able to rule over 200 million muslims.

 

[cricketjoshila]

None what so ever, and there isn't any reason to hate Jinnah or removal his statue/pic from Indian history unless you are hard line, right wing, hindu extremist, still holding a grudge of not being able to rule over 200 million muslims.

Come and give this lecture to families of 1000s who lost their lives in direct action day riots in Kolkata or to the millions who lost their lives during partition or to the other millions who had to leave their homes and everything to come to India.

You cannot decide how these people will judge M A Jinnah.

 

[CricketCartoons]

None what so ever, and there isn't any reason to hate Jinnah or removal his statue/pic from Indian history unless you are hard line, right wing, hindu extremist, still holding a grudge of not being able to rule over 200 million muslims.

There is reason to hate Q-e-A, from both indian liberals and the right wing hindus. Indian liberals for his theory of hindus and muslims not being compatible, right wing hindus for the partition of the land they considered their own ( not for two nation theory )

Indians have valid reasons to hate him, whether they are secular or hindu nationalists.

 

[www787]

Come and give this lecture to families of 1000s who lost their lives in direct action day riots in Kolkata or to the millions who lost their lives during partition or to the other millions who had to leave their homes and everything to come to India.

You cannot decide how these people will judge M A Jinnah.

This may work on naive hindu of India but it won't work here. Narrative had been set up the party you are in love with and the extremist group support your party. And, all those communal riots are the results of India teaching and preaching hate toward Muslims of India, i.e "go to Pakistan". Like I have said, hard line, right win, hindu extremists still can't accept and hold grudge against the Muslims of Pakistan and Indian muslims. So, Stop blaming Jinnah or Pakistani for the hate speech and preaching of hate by the government of India and in school.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Come and give this lecture to families of 1000s who lost their lives in direct action day riots in Kolkata or to the millions who lost their lives during partition or to the other millions who had to leave their homes and everything to come to India.

You cannot decide how these people will judge M A Jinnah.

The direct action day killings remain the blot of his political career, which was otherwise quite impressive. But he never claimed to be a pacifist and was against mohandas gandhi's idea of non violence. Before the Great Calcutta Killings, he said ( source Stanley Wolpert) "today we have said goodbye to the constitutions and constituional methos. The two parties with whom we bargained held a pistol at us, one with power and machine guns behind it ( British) and the other with non cooperation and a threat to launch mass civil disobedience ( Congress). This situation must be met. We also have a pistol." And he used that pistol.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

There is reason to hate Q-e-A, from both indian liberals and the right wing hindus. Indian liberals for his theory of hindus and muslims not being compatible, right wing hindus for the partition of the land they considered their own ( not for two nation theory )

Indians have valid reasons to hate him, whether they are secular or hindu nationalists.

That would make sense if right wing Hindus considered partitioned part of India to be their own, but they gave up that ghost some time ago. Nowadays they are quite happy with the two nation theory, far more than Gandhi was I believe.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

In fact the two nation theory became a three nation reality. I think right wing Hindus are mostly happy with that situation as well. They really should have portraits of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman and Jinnah hanging on their university walls.

 

[CricketCartoons]

That would make sense if right wing Hindus considered partitioned part of India to be their own, but they gave up that ghost some time ago. Nowadays they are quite happy with the two nation theory, far more than Gandhi was I believe.

As usual you know nothing and I am not in a mood to educate.

 

[cricketjoshila]

This may work on naive hindu of India but it won't work here. Narrative had been set up the party you are in love with and the extremist group support your party. And, all those communal riots are the results of India teaching and preaching hate toward Muslims of India, i.e "go to Pakistan". Like I have said, hard line, right win, hindu extremists still can't accept and hold grudge against the Muslims of Pakistan and Indian muslims. So, Stop blaming Jinnah or Pakistani for the hate speech and preaching of hate by the government of India and in school.

It doesnot matter what will work in Pakistan, the prtrait is in India not in Pakistan.

For millions of Indians M A Jinnah is a hated figure and thats what matters in India. Since this portrait is in India it will be dealt accordingly.

From the congress in 1947 till now every political party has rejected M A Jinnah and his views and theories. This is nothing new.

He was responsible for death of millions and exodus of more. Thats the view held by almost all political parties. There were better ways to get this partition done then to call for riots.

You can try to spin in as much as you can with right wing or hindu extremists etc etc truth is M A Jinnah is considered to be responsible for death of millions and thats the case since 1947. And many of those deaths happened before partition.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Most native Pakistani posters that you find on here belong to middle to upper middle class and majority of those go through the O/A level education system which is administered by the Cambridge University in UK. Therefore the history they study is one that is deemed by the Cambridge University to be accurate and hence the question of Pakistani curriculum swaying opinion of kids does not even arise atleast with respect to posters on PP. Maybe that is one of the reasons why you find the Pakistani folks on here to be more balanced while the products of Indian biased curriculum appear to be quite nationalistic.


As for Gandhi, in our history books he is made out to be an upright, statesman who fought for what is right. His hunger strike to give newly formed state of Pakistan her due amount (which was being withheld by India) was very well regarded in our books. Nehru was the one who is generally made out to be the "bad" guy for plethora of reasons.

That is disappointing to hear. Even Hindutva ******* here hate Pandit Nehru because of his liberal outlook and secular/tolerant credentials. May be just like many Indians have misunderstood Mr Jinnah, many Pakistanis have misunderstood our 1st PM. IMO both were great leaders ahead of their times and both represented a liberal worldview which was unfortunately missing in most if not all of their successors.

 

[Syed1]

That is disappointing to hear. Even Hindutva ******* here hate Pandit Nehru because of his liberal outlook and secular/tolerant credentials. May be just like many Indians have misunderstood Mr Jinnah, many Pakistanis have misunderstood our 1st PM. IMO both were great leaders ahead of their times and both represented a liberal worldview which was unfortunately missing in most if not all of their successors.

It's got nothing to do with liberal or secular and more to do with Nehru coming out with statements like "Pakistan will merge back into India within 6 months" and others like that.

 

[CricketCartoons]

That is disappointing to hear. Even Hindutva ******* here hate Pandit Nehru because of his liberal outlook and secular/tolerant credentials. May be just like many Indians have misunderstood Mr Jinnah, many Pakistanis have misunderstood our 1st PM. IMO both were great leaders ahead of their times and both represented a liberal worldview which was unfortunately missing in most if not all of their successors.

As someone who hates Nehru, but not as much as I hate Mohandas, there is no doubt that he was secular and tolerant, and not a rabble rouser. He went against the tide to curb emotions during post partition riots.

 

[www787]

It doesnot matter what will work in Pakistan, the prtrait is in India not in Pakistan.

For millions of Indians M A Jinnah is a hated figure and thats what matters in India. Since this portrait is in India it will be dealt accordingly.

From the congress in 1947 till now every political party has rejected M A Jinnah and his views and theories. This is nothing new.

He was responsible for death of millions and exodus of more. Thats the view held by almost all political parties. There were better ways to get this partition done then to call for riots.

You can try to spin in as much as you can with right wing or hindu extremists etc etc truth is M A Jinnah is considered to be responsible for death of millions and thats the case since 1947. And many of those deaths happened before partition.

Me trying to spin?

Your 'Bot" response when light is shine on India regarding the wrong India does is more of trying to spin than anyone else on this forum.

No one has stopped India from removing Jinnah statue/pic. I am surprised Modi and RSS hasn't already done it that years ago. I guess this was the right time, because hate has seeped in completely in general population.

It wasn't Jinnah alone who wanted partition of India, it was my ancestors and many more Pakistani ancestors who wanted Partition of India, and rightly so.

 

[Swashbuckler]

It's got nothing to do with liberal or secular and more to do with Nehru coming out with statements like "Pakistan will merge back into India within 6 months" and others like that.

I attributed the reasons (secular/tolerant) for Hindutva elements hating on Nehru. Regarding his quotes like the one you mentioned first time I am hearing about it. We must remember that many such quotes attributed to historical figures are often inaccurate.

 

[CricketCartoons]

It wasn't Jinnah alone who wanted partition of India, it was my ancestors and many more Pakistani ancestors who wanted Partition of India, and rightly so.

Partition was the right solution for the communal problem. The issue was the way it was achieved, over the death of millions. That many people didnt die even during anti British movements.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It's got nothing to do with liberal or secular and more to do with Nehru coming out with statements like "Pakistan will merge back into India within 6 months" and others like that.

That was an admirable sentiment to be honest, it means he believed in Indians as one people, rightly or wrongly. Seems this was a naive sentiment rather than a hostile one, India is too large and disparate to be one nation, it would be better split up into smaller states as it was in historical times.