Quaid-e-Azam Trophy | Super Eight, Round 3 | Dec 3-6, 2016

[aloo paratha]

Muhammad Abbas with another 10 wicket match, if we select a much older player who's only done well in 4 games, it'd be terribly unfair.

 

[Suleiman]

No boss, never.

Asif's value is his new ball use - getting top order batsmen out against their best defense with new ball. If you want someone to bowl 9 overs in first 25 for a 2.8 economy, better to use someone like Anwar Ali - much better Batsman & Fielder; he can easily slant away new ball a foot wide outside off with 7-2 field for a 2.5 economy with new Kookaburra - I am sure you understand exactly what I am saying. Imran did the same thing on 1st Day (afternoon) of 2nd Test on a Green Top.

Asif might be rusty after 10 weeks gap, but this is absolute failure, if you think about role profile of a player. PAK team needs Amir's partner with new ball, better if it's a right-armer. Sohail is as good as anyone at present PAK can bring; unfortunately for first 10-12 overs only, because by his genuine age, the best ever I had seen of his type, was 4th year into his retirement after SCG Test against PAK in Jan 1984.

I have a little know how about PAK's domestic cricket - in same match, someone Waqas Maqsood had identical overs bowled & runs conceded, but for 3 wickets of Zain Abbas, Ali Asad & Fawad Alam - AND all 3 are left-hander (in fact the 4th wicket Awais is also lefti - that's 4 of top 5, only possible in QA Style). In other way, you are saying that Asif bowled economically for 9 overs with new ball against a barrage of left-handers ............. I guess, you better restrain yourself from posting in this thread for few days.

Though another Lefti, but I would have definitely taken Hamza to AUS - in a score of 486, young man has bowled exceptionally for 29'4-12-66-5 figures, mostly top order wickets with new ball; also most of his wickets this season are from top 6. At Official 24, time is racing away from him - if he doesn't make it now, Inzi & Misbah will make another Abdur Rauf story.

Misbah & Inzi are probably 2 worst combination for NextGen cricketers - even Babar & Sami would have carried drinks for 2 more years without Arthur. It's ironical that, Inzi cost Misbah almost half a decade of his best time - now both are doing the same for at least half a dozen young players.

Yeah i was certain after the A tour in England where Mir tore apart the top order with new ball he'd get a chance but yet again we are persisting with the same lulloo bowlers.

 

[Junaids]

what will tabish khan and others do if a criminal is selected ahead of them just playing one third of the fc season

You aren't serious, are you?

Tabish Khan is officially going to be 32 years old next Monday. (But has one of those ages where the Day and Month are the same, which in other countries is a recognised pattern with false ages).

He has had five years of Asif's ban (when Tabish was aged 25-30) plus 16 months of Asif's additional unapproved exclusion (aged 30-32) to secure his place in the national team.

So Tabish and the other fast bowlers who were unable to establish themselves in the team have nothing to cry about now if Asif is recalled.

They had their chance. They got 75 months without Asif when they were only entitled to 60.

And they weren't good enough to take it.

 

[MMHS]

Yeah i was certain after the A tour in England where Mir tore apart the top order with new ball he'd get a chance but yet again we are persisting with the same lulloo bowlers.

You read my last para - Inzi is not Farhat's FiL, Mohsin, Qasim, Bari or Moin - he understands the game more than most in world; but he was a nightmare for young players, when he was Captain - I didn't expect much from him as CS either.

 

[DRsohail]

You aren't serious, are you?

Tabish Khan is officially going to be 32 years old next Monday. (But has one of those ages where the Day and Month are the same, which in other countries is a recognised pattern with false ages).

He has had five years of Asif's ban (when Tabish was aged 25-30) plus 16 months of Asif's additional unapproved exclusion (aged 30-32) to secure his place in the national team.

So Tabish and the other fast bowlers who were unable to establish themselves in the team have nothing to cry about now if Asif is recalled.

They had their chance. They got 75 months without Asif when they were only entitled to 60.

And they weren't good enough to take it.

on what basis asif deserve to be recalled and tabish doesnt deserve a call can u explain it..on merit m.abbas and tabish should be the one to be in the team not asif....asif has nt done much in fc its a bitter fact...

 

[BDwarriors]

on what basis asif deserve to be recalled and tabish doesnt deserve a call can u explain it..on merit m.abbas and tabish should be the one to be in the team not asif....asif has nt done much in fc its a bitter fact...

Asif is proven international material and specially for australia. Asifs fc record was not better but his international record was.

 

[DRsohail]

Asif is proven international material and specially for australia. Asifs fc record was not better but his international record was.

international record was 6 years old not now,,,,,seeing air medioocre performance dosnt inspire much about salman and asif though amir was oding wonders in fc ..

 

[moghul]

Its almost impossible to make a comeback to international level after lay off of 6 years , particularly for a fast bowler. Amir, although very young and talented, still struggling to be close to his 2010 level and Asif who is much older is much less likely to achieve that. Its sad but we have to be realistic, we need to look beyond Asif now.

 

[DRsohail]

You read my last para - Inzi is not Farhat's FiL, Mohsin, Qasim, Bari or Moin - he understands the game more than most in world; but he was a nightmare for young players, when he was Captain - I didn't expect much from him as CS either.

hit the nail ..inzi will destroy young talent..

 

[Ellipsism]

international record was 6 years old not now,,,,,seeing air medioocre performance dosnt inspire much about salman and asif though amir was oding wonders in fc ..

Amir didn't set the FC seen alight...

 

[Junaids]

international record was 6 years old not now,,,,,seeing air medioocre performance dosnt inspire much about salman and asif though amir was oding wonders in fc ..

Asif's domestic First Class record is better this year than before the ban.m

Terry Alderman was of similar pace and returned for the 1989 Ashes after a 3 year ban and took 41 wickets in the series.

 

[Ellipsism]

Asif's domestic First Class record is better this year than before the ban.m

Terry Alderman was of similar pace and returned for the 1989 Ashes after a 3 year ban and took 41 wickets in the series.

The pitches are better for seam bowling than what Asif played on 6-7 years ago.

 

[Junaids]

The pitches are better for seam bowling than what Asif played on 6-7 years ago.

Now that answer is just plain confusing.

On 14 July 2016 Shaharyar Khan gave Mohammad Asif a clear instruction: perform in QEA and you will be selected.

He has done what he was told to do. He has a better record this season in QEA than before he was banned, and he has bowled his team into the Final with a spell of 3-0-3-3 when his team was on the verge of elimination.

Have the goalposts moved? Is performing better than pre-ban not good enough?

It is especially frustrating given that Yasir Shah looks like he might be out of the tour, and Pakistan needs all the class acts it can get its hands on.

If indeed Yasir Shah can't continue, I'd rather like a team of:

7 Sarfraz Ahmed
8 Mohammad Nawaz
9 Mohammad Amir
10 Wahab Riaz or Rahat Ali
11 Mohammad Asif

 

[MMHS]

Asif's domestic First Class record is better this year than before the ban.m

Terry Alderman was of similar pace and returned for the 1989 Ashes after a 3 year ban and took 41 wickets in the series.

A little footnote on that bold part boss -

1. Terence Michael Alderman was exactly 33 years (in between 1st & 2nd Test was his BDay) when he make a come back in Ashes, & he went to school in AUS (like me), so he had to submit a birth certificate, issued by the hospital, where he was born on 12th June 1956.

2. Alderman was one of the most disciplined cricketer of his time regarding his fitness, stamina & fielding - kept his shape perfect till 1992, as you know, you don't see many pacers fielding at 2nd slip for Aussies unless he had a super flexible body.

3. That 3 years ban was for Internationals - Wisden says, he bowled over 600 Overs in 1986 & 1988 County Season - taking 98 wickets for Kent & 75 wickets for Gloster - at an average of 20 & 23 respectively. And this is only for County Championship - there are B&H Matches, Sunday League, University matches, Tour matches, 2nd XI matches - you know, I did follow County cricket as a kid.

4. Before being called by Aussies in 1989 summer, he bowled over 450 overs in 3 months for Western Australia, in FC only, taking 48 wickets at 21, which was best average by any bowler that summer, including 4 gentleman named Malcom Marshall, Curtley Ambrose, Courtney Walsh & CJ Mcdermott. Before that, in 1987-88 Aussie Summer - he bowled 400+ overs only in FC Cricket for 39 wickets, for an average of 24.

These are data pulled from Cricket Archive, so you can back on me. You see, Aussies didn't call him back based on his 1981 heroics; neither he was coming back from 6 years wilderness & Aussies didn't take his fitness as taken for granted. I guess, you know, bowling 750+ overs in 6 months English cricket season (that's after 500+ 3 months back in AUS season) is a bit different benchmark than playing 4 FC matches & bowling in 6 innings.

Coming to Asif, I myself is a fan of him - but the way you are putting it will never convince me. For example - Asif's FC average of 21 in 4 matches vs 24 before ban actually does convince me that he has regressed BIG TIME - for the condition he bowled in 2016 season vs 2009 & prior. I am a keen follower of Domestic FC Cricket around the globe - the logic you are using, in that regard probably over 20 pacers actually beats Asif - they have better average this season than him & they have improved their stats by more than what Asif has done. Subjectively, if you ask me - I'll say that, The Asif I saw in NZ, AUS & UK in 2009-10 season; would have averaged close to single digit this winter.

As I said, I like him more than Amir, but I am not sure for few reasons

1. On Dec 20, I am not sure, how many years I'll have to add with his 34th birthday - business usual, it has to be between 3 to 5 - even 2 is too much for me, for his "recreational habits". For you information - he debuted in FC season of 2000 winter - that's 16 years back; based on my experience (& I can assure you, not many Pakistani or Indian will dare to challenge me regarding their domestic game), I can assure you that, he wasn't teenager at debut.

2. By your own word - he got injured & had to rest for bowling 43 overs in a FC match, where he might not have given even 80%. And you want him to bowl tight long spells to suffocate scoring - do you think, 35 overs is sufficient for that role?

3. All that hue & cry for his 3-0-3-3, which according to you took his team to finals - I see it a bit differently. I see his side putting 350+ with bat - based on KAkmals 144 & couple of good knocks (55, 36) from his team's No. 9 & 10 .............. then his new ball partner restricted them to 2 down with new ball & he had to wait for 23 overs for his 1st wicket (& almost to 3rd ball) - that too for No. 8, 10 & 11 - who has mighty FC average of 33, 8 & 7 respectively ....

4. I don't want to go back to your D/N - Pink Ball theory/fantasy; but it got a bit rough in Adelaide Test, so not much confident about that strategy anymore.


Any way boss - WAPDA has made the Final, which probably will be live streamed; odd time, but I'll watch his bowling definitely (unless 26 overs work load sends him for another month's rest) - I guess, that'll be a good experience for better assessment.

 

[MMHS]

Now that answer is just plain confusing.

On 14 July 2016 Shaharyar Khan gave Mohammad Asif a clear instruction: perform in QEA and you will be selected.

He has done what he was told to do. He has a better record this season in QEA than before he was banned, and he has bowled his team into the Final with a spell of 3-0-3-3 when his team was on the verge of elimination.

Have the goalposts moved? Is performing better than pre-ban not good enough?

It is especially frustrating given that Yasir Shah looks like he might be out of the tour, and Pakistan needs all the class acts it can get its hands on.

If indeed Yasir Shah can't continue, I'd rather like a team of:

7 Sarfraz Ahmed
8 Mohammad Nawaz
9 Mohammad Amir
10 Wahab Riaz or Rahat Ali
11 Mohammad Asif

I had to this boss, sorry - I like your posts, but twisting events to prove a point needs to be challenged. This is the score card of the match - please justify the bold part

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/1047963.html

 

[Junaids]

I had to this boss, sorry - I like your posts, but twisting events to prove a point needs to be challenged. This is the score card of the match - please justify the bold part

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/1047963.html

My friend, it's simply a matter of fact as this thread shows.

At the start of the Fourth and Final Day, SSGC was 298-7 and in an unbroken partnership of 49 runs. Another 55 runs and they, not Asif's WAPDA, would reach the QEA Final.

The second new ball was 52 overs old.

So it was a tense situation with two set batsmen and a very old ball.

As I wrote, Asif then bowled a spell of 3-0-3-3 to bowl WAPDA into the Final, cor=urtesy of the points from this First Innings lead.

He dismissed the batsman who was 57 not out overnight, without addition to the score, and then knocked over the last two batsmen.

 

[MMHS]

My friend, it's simply a matter of fact as this thread shows.

At the start of the Fourth and Final Day, SSGC was 298-7 and in an unbroken partnership of 49 runs. Another 55 runs and they, not Asif's WAPDA, would reach the QEA Final.

The second new ball was 52 overs old.

So it was a tense situation with two set batsmen and a very old ball.

As I wrote, Asif then bowled a spell of 3-0-3-3 to bowl WAPDA into the Final, cor=urtesy of the points from this First Innings lead.

He dismissed the batsman who was 57 not out overnight, without addition to the score, and then knocked over the last two batsmen.

I know the quality of the batsmen - it happens to be Asif as Butt gave him the ball. After over night rest, bowlers were fresh. That 57 runs unbroken partnership exactly tells what I tried to say - at the end of the day, Asif & Co, couldn't get out No. 8 & 9 in 2 hours - start of every day is new for batsman & it happens to be that after that wicket, other 2 are genuine dummy with bat.

All the credit you are trying to give to Asif doesn't make any sense - Waqas Maqsood took Zain for 2, Ali Asad for 0 & Fawad for 1 - without clicking their profile, you know who won that ticket of Final for WAPDA.

 

[Ellipsism]

Now that answer is just plain confusing.

On 14 July 2016 Shaharyar Khan gave Mohammad Asif a clear instruction: perform in QEA and you will be selected.

He has done what he was told to do. He has a better record this season in QEA than before he was banned, and he has bowled his team into the Final with a spell of 3-0-3-3 when his team was on the verge of elimination.

Have the goalposts moved? Is performing better than pre-ban not good enough?

It is especially frustrating given that Yasir Shah looks like he might be out of the tour, and Pakistan needs all the class acts it can get its hands on.

If indeed Yasir Shah can't continue, I'd rather like a team of:

7 Sarfraz Ahmed
8 Mohammad Nawaz
9 Mohammad Amir
10 Wahab Riaz or Rahat Ali
11 Mohammad Asif

I don't get what is confusing.

What's confounding is your unwillingness to acknowledge your slip-up.

A large portion of the medium pacers in the competition are averaging under 20. That in itself proves what I'm trying to covey.

Nowadays averaging 20-25 in the QEA trophy is nothing special or worth being built up about.

You appear to continue going ahead about Asif single-handedly bowling WAPDA into the final, yet you fail to mention Waqas Maqsood whom did the greater degree of damage. I'm not sure dismissing two tail enders and a batsman restarting his innings is anything splendid by any means.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

There is no need to compare special bowler with Crap.

Even last year Asif took 7-8 wickets in Odi Cup ie his weak format and 5 of those were top order batsman.

In 3 day Qea qualifier where he captained Sialkot to semifinal he mostly dismissed top order batsman.

Wapda is in final due to Asif mainly.

 

[Junaids]

Wapda is in final due to Asif mainly.

So should we believe this or the opposite views put forward by [MENTION=141390]Ellipsism[/MENTION] and [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] ?

 

[DRsohail]

I know the quality of the batsmen - it happens to be Asif as Butt gave him the ball. After over night rest, bowlers were fresh. That 57 runs unbroken partnership exactly tells what I tried to say - at the end of the day, Asif & Co, couldn't get out No. 8 & 9 in 2 hours - start of every day is new for batsman & it happens to be that after that wicket, other 2 are genuine dummy with bat.

All the credit you are trying to give to Asif doesn't make any sense - Waqas Maqsood took Zain for 2, Ali Asad for 0 & Fawad for 1 - without clicking their profile, you know who won that ticket of Final for WAPDA.

let them idealise their own world..he doesnt deserve it and will not come back...hope so..

 

[Speedster777]

There is no need to compare special bowler with Crap.

Even last year Asif took 7-8 wickets in Odi Cup ie his weak format and 5 of those were top order batsman.

In 3 day Qea qualifier where he captained Sialkot to semifinal he mostly dismissed top order batsman.

Wapda is in final due to Asif mainly.

Exactly. Some haters are living in denial of this fact that Asif has played critical role in getting his team to the finals.

 

[Speedster777]

So should we believe this or the opposite views put forward by [MENTION=141390]Ellipsism[/MENTION] and [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] ?

Can't take people like Ellipsism seriously who want us to believe the current squad is the best in Pak lol