"Qurbani", do we still have to do it?

[zaid65]

I know " Qurbani" is sunat-e-Ibrahimi and it was revealed long time ago and I know the whole history how it was started.

But looking at the poverty in our country, hundreds of thousands of people do not eat the food, millions of kids cannot afford to go to school, hundreds of thousands of girls not able to get married due to financial reasons ( some of them are forced for prostitution) .

My question here, instead of sacrificing the animal, why cant people donate the same amount of money to poor people for some better cause. I do not see people or Islam getting benefit from eating unlimited amount of meat for one month and on top of that, we are exposing our young kids to watch the brutal slaughtering of the animal.

If we would spend all the money which we spend on sacrificing the animal, to help the poor people ( in addition to pay Zakat), this could help lot of people and would be more beneficial than the original cause.

I know in the religion, everything is fixed but I personally think there are certain things need to be looked and revised by the Islamic scholars and this one thing need to be looked again.

 

[Shaddy]

we are exposing our young kids to watch the brutal slaughtering of the animal.

I would much rather have my kids witness this 'Brutal' (Halal) Method of slaughtering animals and then eating the meat of it than to go out and have McDonald's. May be you prefer your animals stunned and electrocuted but most of us much rather have it Halal before our eyes.

 

[Pak-Legend]

When a command comes from Allah, you do not question it.

If one has the financial means to perform / pay for the slaughter, then they should do it - if they don't, they should not even bother going to the place where Eid prayers are offered. This has been said by the Prophet.

And revising things in the religion is forbidden as Allah has perfected the religion and the Prophet even stated the religion is complete during his last sermon.

 

[zaid65]

I would much rather have my kids witness this 'Brutal' (Halal) Method of slaughtering animals and then eating the meat of it than to go out and have McDonald's. May be you prefer your animals stunned and electrocuted but most of us much rather have it Halal before our eyes.

Thanks for not able to understand the point.

My point of brutal slaughtering referring to the way most of the people slaughter the animal. As we know, majority of the people who slaughter the animal on Eid day are not real professionals and instead of doing the job smooth, they do it with the most painful way.

 

[zaid65]

When a command comes from Allah, you do not question it.

If one has the financial means to perform / pay for the slaughter, then they should do it, otherwise they should not even bother going to the place where Eid prayers are offered. This has been said by the Prophet.

And revising things in the religion is forbidden as Allah has perfected the religion and the Prophet even stated the religion is complete during his last sermon.

But even if you would pay it to somebody, they are still going to slaughter the animal in different location. How does it help the poor people ( other than eating the meat) or how does it help the Islam?

 

[Pak-Legend]

But even if you would pay it to somebody, they are still going to slaughter the animal in different location. How does it help the poor people ( other than eating the meat) or how does it help the Islam?

The slaughtering helps Islam because it demonstrates complete obedience to God's will. The purpose of 'Qurbani' is to signify that one is willing to give up anything in order to meet the needs of his creator's commands. It brings all Muslims closer to God and reinforces complete submission to God which is the most important part of Islam.

Ask yourself, why would a father have to kill his son? There is no justification in doing so. But when the command came from God, there were no objections. This is the very essence of 'Qurbani'.

Linking poverty to this scenario doesn't make any sense either. If one doesn't have the financial means to perform/ pay for the 'Qurbani' , then they obviously don't need to do it. Poverty is a separate issue and Islam already has values put in place to help alleviate it, i.e. zakat.

God knows best about the reward for this sacrifice.

 

[WahabYorker]

its not like if you slaughter the animals, the meat goes to waste...people usually eat the meat or if they cant finish everything, they donate it to the poor people before it goes bad

 

[sunnykhan]

The basic purpose of Qurbani is to remember the act of Hazrat Ibrahim A.S. And I don't think anyone will remember it if we start donating money instead of doing Qurbani. This Sunnat will become history. The lessons we learn from this act is that one should be ready to sacrifice anything in the path of ALLAH. I don't think this spiritual meaning can be understand by just donating money.

 

[Pak-Legend]

Many charity organizations have programs put into place where you can pay for a poor person's Qurbani and additional money can also be donated to that person or their family.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

It's called Zakat and other charity methods - Sadaqah, Lillah, et al - are encouraged in Islam, the original 'Big Society'

 

[zaid65]

Linking poverty to this scenario doesn't make any sense either. If one doesn't have the financial means to perform/ pay for the 'Qurbani' , then they obviously don't need to do it. Poverty is a separate issue and Islam already has values put in place to help alleviate it, i.e. zakat.

I am fully aware of the fact, if you are poor, you are not suppose to follow this Sunat, but I said, instead of sacrificing the animal to reinforce God's submission, why cant we donate the money to poor people ( in addition to pay the Zakat).

 

[asif9138]

I know " Qurbani" is sunat-e-Ibrahimi and it was revealed long time ago and I know the whole history how it was started.

But looking at the poverty in our country, hundreds of thousands of people do not eat the food, millions of kids cannot afford to go to school, hundreds of thousands of girls not able to get married due to financial reasons ( some of them are forced for prostitution) .

My question here, instead of sacrificing the animal, why cant people donate the same amount of money to poor people for some better cause. I do not see people or Islam getting benefit from eating unlimited amount of meat for one month and on top of that, we are exposing our young kids to watch the brutal slaughtering of the animal.

If we would spend all the money which we spend on sacrificing the animal, to help the poor people ( in addition to pay Zakat), this could help lot of people and would be more beneficial than the original cause.

I know in the religion, everything is fixed but I personally think there are certain things need to be looked and revised by the Islamic scholars and this one thing need to be looked again.

Believe me no one will give money to poor people. Look at zakat ratio, i do not think rich and our leaders give proper zakat. atleast on this eid day poor people get the meat to eat!

 

[zaid65]

Believe me no one will give money to poor people. Look at zakat ratio, i do not think rich and our leaders give proper zakat. atleast on this eid day poor people get the meat to eat!

Eating meat is not going to make any significant difference and impact on poor people's life. But if they would get some money instead of the meat, I think it will be more helpful and beneficial.

 

[GentleMan]

this is my personal theory..i think sacrifice in early times was about sacrificing your prized possessions..in those days livestock were prized and were a form of wealth for people..so sacrificing a goat sheep or camel meant a lot..now people have continued the same tradition..but i am not sure if these animals are still prized possessions anymore..

 

[Looney]

Even the Qurbani meat has to be shared . Zakat / jizyah , fitrah , sadqa , charity , volunteer are also there if you really want to help the people in need .

 

[zaid65]

this is my personal theory..i think sacrifice in early times was about sacrificing your prized possessions..in those days livestock were prized and were a form of wealth for people..so sacrificing a goat sheep or camel meant a lot..now people have continued the same tradition..but i am not sure if these animals are still prized possessions anymore..

You are quite right and this was the main reason instead of his son, God asked him to sacrificed the animal.

But if you asked yourself, what is the most prized item in most people's life after our family? It is the wealth ( money), why cant we donate or sacrifice money in the name of God to poor people?

 

[AbdulrazzaqFan]

^^ exactly. 1/3 of the Qurbani meat is supposed to be given to the poor. And if you're so concerned about helping out the poor then why not give some sadaqah along with your Qurbani?

 

[AbdulrazzaqFan]

You are quite right and this was the main reason instead of his son, God asked him to sacrificed the animal.

But if you asked yourself, what is the most prized item in most people's life after our family? It is the wealth ( money), why cant we donate or sacrifice money in the name of God to poor people?

Because one of the purposes of Qurbani is to revive the sunnah of Prophet Ibrahim (as).

 

[saadibaba]

Zaid,

I completely agree with your point, in fact for the last several years, I have stopped paying for Qurbani, instead I give that money to charitable org. or to poor relatives or people we know of who really need it. I think this way my money gets spent in the most useful way and actually goes towards improving someone's life. Now I understand that this may not be permissible by Islam if going by what the so called scholars on PP are saying but you know what, I really do not care. My relationship with God is my own personal matter and if I am doing anything wrong I will face the consequences. Islam tells us to "think" and "reason" , and IMO giving money to charity instead of paying for qurbani is a better way to help people.

 

[Rizwan25]

I know " Qurbani" is sunat-e-Ibrahimi and it was revealed long time ago and I know the whole history how it was started.

But looking at the poverty in our country, hundreds of thousands of people do not eat the food, millions of kids cannot afford to go to school, hundreds of thousands of girls not able to get married due to financial reasons ( some of them are forced for prostitution) .

My question here, instead of sacrificing the animal, why cant people donate the same amount of money to poor people for some better cause. I do not see people or Islam getting benefit from eating unlimited amount of meat for one month and on top of that, we are exposing our young kids to watch the brutal slaughtering of the animal.

If we would spend all the money which we spend on sacrificing the animal, to help the poor people ( in addition to pay Zakat), this could help lot of people and would be more beneficial than the original cause.

I know in the religion, everything is fixed but I personally think there are certain things need to be looked and revised by the Islamic scholars and this one thing need to be looked again.

Fitna alert!!!

Why give up a sunnah? If you are that concerned then you shud practice what you are preaching? Stop eating meat for the whole year and spend that money on the well fare of poor and hungry. By not doing qurbani that comes once a year, you are not gona make a difference.

Thanks for creating a doubt in ppl mind.

 

[zaid65]

^^ exactly. 1/3 of the Qurbani meat is supposed to be given to the poor. And if you're so concerned about helping out the poor then why not give some sadaqah along with your Qurbani?

Why cant we give Sadqa and all the money of the Qurbani to poor people? Because for the Qurbani, only 1/3rd portion is going to the poor ( even that one is not mandatory), so poor people are only getting 1/3rd of the benefit of this worship ( not 100%).

 

[zaid65]

Zaid,

I completely agree with your point, in fact for the last several years, I have stopped paying for Qurbani, instead I give that money to charitable org. or to poor relatives or people we know of who really need it. I think this way my money gets spent in the most useful way and actually goes towards improving someone's life. Now I understand that this may not be permissible by Islam if going by what the so called scholars on PP are saying but you know what, I really do not care. My relationship with God is my own personal matter and if I am doing anything wrong I will face the consequences. Islam tells us to "think" and "reason" , and IMO giving money to charity instead of paying for qurbani is a better way to help people.

Thanks for understanding the point and I agree with your bold lines.

 

[zaid65]

One more important point to consider, majority of the people who do Qurbani , do not even pray 5 times a day ( including me), do not follow the other important pillars of Islam, but when it comes to Qurbani, we all become very enthusiastic and emotional and spend lot of money to buy the good looking and expensive animal for show off in the community.

 

[saadibaba]

In reality most people use the meat from Qurbani to throw dinner parties and store it for themselves for later use. It's also a big show off kind of thing in Pakistan, where people gloat about how many goats or cows they slaughtered, how they slaughtered more than their neighbor or relatives. I've even seen people walk their cows and goats across their neighborhood to show others how they bought the most expensive animal out there. The whole purpose of Qurbani gets lost in all this one up manship.

 

[Black Zero]

it is fun to do qurbani,

 

[Looney]

Why cant we give Sadqa and all the money of the Qurbani to poor people? Because for the Qurbani, only 1/3rd portion is going to the poor ( even that one is not mandatory), so poor people are only getting 1/3rd of the benefit of this worship ( not 100%).

It has to be shared with everyone , including your relatives , neighbours or people close to you so I don`t know about that portion being distributed amongst the poor . If you want to give up your portion for the poor , who is stopping you ? :gillani It has to be at least 1/3 for the poor , can be more but not less .

I asked someone the same question and they said you have to make neeyat for qurbani because you are honouring a great tradition or sunnat . You must do it if you can . You must give zakat / jizya , fitra . You can give sadqa and charity if you still have the extra money .

 

[Looney]

In reality most people use the meat from Qurbani to throw dinner parties and store it for themselves for later use. It's also a big show off kind of thing in Pakistan, where people gloat about how many goats or cows they slaughtered, how they slaughtered more than their neighbor or relatives. I've even seen people walk their cows and goats across their neighborhood to show others how they bought the most expensive animal out there. The whole purpose of Qurbani gets lost in all this one up manship.

That is true . We are just comparing reality vs ideal situation . Lots of things SHOULD or MUST happen ideally but in reality , we are far from it . No wonder we are going through such tough times .

 

[AbdulrazzaqFan]

Why cant we give Sadqa and all the money of the Qurbani to poor people? Because for the Qurbani, only 1/3rd portion is going to the poor ( even that one is not mandatory), so poor people are only getting 1/3rd of the benefit of this worship ( not 100%).

As far as I know it is mandatory to divide the meat into three portions. The first one is for yourself, the second for your relatives and the third for the poor.

Also, like I said before and everyone else also already mentioned, qurbani is a symbolic act to show our love and committment to Prophet Ibrahim (as).

If giving charity on this occassion instead of the symbolic sacrifice was better then I'm sure it msut've been encouraged by our Prophet saw however that is not the case.

 

[FusedBulb]

I know " Qurbani" is sunat-e-Ibrahimi and it was revealed long time ago and I know the whole history how it was started.

But looking at the poverty in our country, hundreds of thousands of people do not eat the food, millions of kids cannot afford to go to school, hundreds of thousands of girls not able to get married due to financial reasons ( some of them are forced for prostitution) .

My question here, instead of sacrificing the animal, why cant people donate the same amount of money to poor people for some better cause. I do not see people or Islam getting benefit from eating unlimited amount of meat for one month and on top of that, we are exposing our young kids to watch the brutal slaughtering of the animal.

If we would spend all the money which we spend on sacrificing the animal, to help the poor people ( in addition to pay Zakat), this could help lot of people and would be more beneficial than the original cause.

I know in the religion, everything is fixed but I personally think there are certain things need to be looked and revised by the Islamic scholars and this one thing need to be looked again.

As you claim to be well aware of Qurbani ritual, I am sure you must also know the prescribed method Qurbani is that you should buy an animal and raise it for at least a year so that a loving relation is developed between you and, for example, the baby goat you had bought a year ago.
Now distributing a minimum of one third meat to poor is the secondary aspect. The actual reason behind Qurani is that you sacrify something in the way of Allah that you really loved, and THAT'S the purpose of Qurbani. Just as Hz Ibrahim (as) was ready to sacrify the dearest thing to him in the way of Allah.


A friend of mine bought a small baby goat and raised it for a couple years till it got ready for Qurbani.
At the time of Qurbani, he told me that, everybody in house was crying when we slaughtered that goat. And I replied, you may have just decreased the hasanaat of Qurbani because instead of crying you guys should have been happy that you giving something in the way of Allah that you truly love.

In many of our households for example, we will give old and used shoes n clothes in charity not because we love Allah but that stuff is no longer needed by us. Do you now understand the purpose behind Qurbani?

 

[zaid65]

It has to be shared with everyone , including your relatives , neighbours or people close to you so I don`t know about that portion being distributed amongst the poor . If you want to give up your portion for the poor , who is stopping you ? :gillani It has to be at least 1/3 for the poor , can be more but not less .

I asked someone the same question and they said you have to make neeyat for qurbani because you are honouring a great tradition or sunnat . You must do it if you can . You must give zakat / jizya , fitra . You can give sadqa and charity if you still have the extra money .

First of all, it is not 100% mandatory to give 1/3rd to poor, in Western countries, where you cannot find the poor people, you can keep all the meat.

I have seen what kind of meat people give it to the poor people in Pakistan. They might as well not give the left over and the worst meat to them, instead just fill the whole refrigerator for extra few months of storage.

 

[Salma_T]

we give money to a charity and who then slaughter the animal on our behalf and distribute the food amongst the poor. The charities will distribute fresh/canned and frozen meat to the needy and feel this is the best method for us.

 

[Looney]

First of all, it is not 100% mandatory to give 1/3rd to poor, in Western countries, where you cannot find the poor people, you can keep all the meat.

I have seen what kind of meat people give it to the poor people in Pakistan. They might as well not give the left over and the worst meat to them, instead just fill the whole refrigerator for extra few months of storage.

Ok , maybe you are right about that but we have done it that way every time .


We buy one portion here and keep some / distribute some . the rest of it is done in Pakistan and all of our portions go to the needy .


Bhai , neeyat theek ho jaaye hamari tou Pakistan ka ya MusalmanoN ka yeh haal hi na ho . I am confused if you want to know why we don`t give all the money we spend on qurbani to the needy or you want to criticize what we do in reality .

 

[W63L35]

Zaid,

I completely agree with your point, in fact for the last several years, I have stopped paying for Qurbani, instead I give that money to charitable org. or to poor relatives or people we know of who really need it. I think this way my money gets spent in the most useful way and actually goes towards improving someone's life. Now I understand that this may not be permissible by Islam if going by what the so called scholars on PP are saying but you know what, I really do not care. My relationship with God is my own personal matter and if I am doing anything wrong I will face the consequences. Islam tells us to "think" and "reason" , and IMO giving money to charity instead of paying for qurbani is a better way to help people.

So how do you know/measure/decide, if you are doing something wrong?

 

[FusedBulb]

Zaid,
IMO giving money to charity instead of paying for qurbani is a better way to help people.

So the primary purpose of Qurbani is to "help people" or feed them with meat ?

 

[youboy]

I am fully aware of the fact, if you are poor, you are not suppose to follow this Sunat, but I said, instead of sacrificing the animal to reinforce God's submission, why cant we donate the money to poor people ( in addition to pay the Zakat).

Did Allah (SWT) or Prophet Muhammad (SAW) said anywhere that instead of doing qurbani( if you have the means) you can donate that money to the poor?

Yes or No.

Why you want to donate the money of Qurbani, do your charity extra from this money like many people do. One portion out of 3 of the meat of Qurbani is to be distributed to the poor and needy (people do prefer the best portion). It is must so the people who normally are not doing charities are also contributing in this act of remembering the poor of the society.

Then there are also organizations where you can pay the money and they will do the slaughter on your behalf and distribute it to the poor and needy.

 

[saadibaba]

So how do you know/measure/decide, if you are doing something wrong?

So the primary purpose of Qurbani is to "help people" or feed them with meat ?

Yaar main aik gunahgaar aadmi hoon, aap dono much se behtar Muslim hain. Aap sab ko meri taraf se qurbani mubarak ho.

 

[W63L35]

Did Allah (SWT) or Prophet Muhammad (SAW) said anywhere that instead of doing qurbani( if you have the means) you can donate the money to the poor?

Yes or No.

Can you imagine people extending this "instead" to other obligatory, sunnah and nawafil acts in Islam? What if people say, instead of spending money on Hajj, I'll donate money to poor? What if people say instead on fasting in Ramazan... we stop doing (or start doing) something that helps poor or other people? There are so many "insteads" you can easily bring in..... that you can completely change the current face of the religion! We have to be very careful when we think/say something like this.... because we may be guilty of bid'ah!

Amma Ba 'du (Then)! The best speech is Alláh's Book, the best
guidance is that sent with Muhammad ~, the worst matters are
matters of innovation, and every Bid'ah is a heresy."

hy you want to donate the money of Qurbani, do your charity extra from the this money like many people do. One portion (people do prefer the best portion) of the meat of Qurbani is to be distributed to the poor and needy (it is a must). So normally the people who are not doing charities are also contributing in this act of remembering the poor of the society.

Exactly..... If you live USA, Qurbani costs $150-200 and if you can afford that much...... I am sure you can afford giving extra money to charities (or even the poor and needy that your family knows in Paksitan)... so that you can donate a little extra to help them. Why do you have to replace a sunnah or do an instead...? That is beyond me.

Then there are also organizations where you can pay the money and they will do the sacrifice on your behalf and distribute it to the poor and needy.

Exactly...... Most of the people/friends I know (including myself), send money to Pakistan ask brothers/sisters/parents in Pakistan to do Qurbani in our behalf and distribute the meat entirely to the poor/needy............or we give money to the charitable organizations to do Qurbani on our behalf where meat goes to they type of people who may taste the meat only once a year. So the matter of "show-off" is totally irrelevant when you just write a check to a charitable organization for Qurbani.

 

[W63L35]

Yaar main aik gunahgaar aadmi hoon, aap dono much se behtar Muslim hain. Aap sab ko meri taraf se qurbani mubarak ho.

No ....only Allah knows who is a better/good Muslim....you and I can not judge that. But I asked you a very serious question.... based on your comment;

My relationship with God is my own personal matter and if I am doing anything wrong I will face the consequences.

How do you judge yourself? I mean, I am sure you believe in Allah. If you do then, you have to figure out somehow what is your relationship with Allah and how do know if you are doing something wrong?

What if you keep doing something all your life ....thinking that you are right .... but according to Allah SWT or Hadith.... it is wrong. Guess what... your hard work just went to waste. So the point is that you have to know (based on Quran/Hadith) if you are wrong or right.... even if it between just and your Allah SWT.

 

[saadibaba]

No ....only Allah knows who is a better/good Muslim....you and I can not judge that. But I asked you a very serious question.... based on your comment;



How do you judge yourself? I mean, I am sure you believe in Allah. If you do then, you have to figure out somehow what is your relationship with Allah and how do know if you are doing something wrong?

What if you keep doing something all your life ....thinking that you are right .... but according to Allah SWT or Hadith.... it is wrong. Guess what... your hard work just went to waste. So the point is that you have to know (based on Quran/Hadith) if you are wrong or right.... even if it between just and your Allah SWT.

Ever heard of the concept of "Live and let live" - An idiom expressing the modern concept that one should let others live their lives as they see fit.

I am not asking anyone to agree with me, I am not asking anyone to change what they are doing and do what I do, I was only expressing what "I" think "in my opinion" is a better way of helping people.

Hope you understand. Peace.

 

[arsalan660]

Why not do Qurbani? HElp the poor from money other than Qurbani why from money which you are spending for Qurbani

 

[Black Zero]

Ever heard of the concept of "Live and let live" - An idiom expressing the modern concept that one should let others live their lives as they see fit.

I am not asking anyone to agree with me, I am not asking anyone to change what they are doing and do what I do, I was only expressing what "I" think "in my opinion" is a better way of helping people.

Hope you understand. Peace.

looks like WL is interested in your thought process...

 

[Black Zero]

I have only one issue with OP.

If you want to embrace logic then there is no point in religion...not even in charity...
Does not make sense to give someone your hard earned money.

 

[zaid65]

I have only one issue with OP.

If you want to embrace logic then there is no point in religion...not even in charity...
Does not make sense to give someone your hard earned money.

I even have issue with the charity.

Why do we have to give money to poor for God's sake? Do we have to help the poor people for the God sake or for the fear of God or we should do it because it is our duty to help poor and needy human beings?

 

[saadibaba]

looks like WL is interested in your thought process...

It's the same thought process as expressed in the OP.

 

[shakil]

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But sacrifice is when one keeps the animal for a sizable amount of time and then slaughter it. Not much difference if one just buys the animal a day or two before Eid and slaughter it

 

[Free Hit]

Zaid making its own Fiqh!

the first you mentiond is country where people cant afford food.

well. qurbani is perfect way to get them food for thee days atleast.

 

[hello143]

Yes, unless God sent Hazrat Jibreel A.S to you and told you otherwise!

as for your opinion of spending qurbaani money on the poor population of the country then you do know that some portion of our qurbaani is meant to be going to poor/needy for them to be fed!

also Islam has something called ZAKAT or sadaqah where you can give money to the poor/needy so do that instead of trying to twist something which has been told to us by our God!

 

[Markhor]

Some of the meat will go towards the poor who are starving, vulnerable and are probably being treated like animals by their own state. If animals are being kept in poor conditions, that is lamentable and understandably wrong.

Most people are meat-eaters. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean the animal isn't being slaughtered somewhere else. Normally, we buy the meat already cleaned and packaged. For Eid, we buy the actual animals and give the meat to the needy.

If we are to discuss sacrifice at Eid then what about Thanksgiving ? There should be the same level of concern for the turkeys.

However that being said, having witnessed a live qurbani, I believe the system of Halal butchery needs to be updated and made more humane. My understanding of the issue is that the meat is halal as long as the animal is not already dead before being slaughtered - and of course that it hasn't been dedicated to some false deity. As such, there is no reason why stunning pens as used widely in the Western world cannot be used for Halal butchery either. In most cases these stunning pens only render the animal unconscious (as opposed to dead), which means that they can still be made halal in the 'traditional' method while still unconscious. The blood can then be drained as normal.

Stunning may not be appropriate for smaller animals such as chicken - who may die on account of the stun itself - therefore rendering the meat non-halal. But for larger animals such as goats, cattle etc. it should be considered as a more humane alternative.

 

[Mamoon]

I find it funny that people don't care about slaughtering all year long but when it comes to eid, they all feel sorry for the animals.

 

[Hamza78]

The slaughtering helps Islam because it demonstrates complete obedience to God's will. The purpose of 'Qurbani' is to signify that one is willing to give up anything in order to meet the needs of his creator's commands. It brings all Muslims closer to God and reinforces complete submission to God which is the most important part of Islam.

Ask yourself, why would a father have to kill his son? There is no justification in doing so. But when the command came from God, there were no objections. This is the very essence of 'Qurbani'.

Linking poverty to this scenario doesn't make any sense either. If one doesn't have the financial means to perform/ pay for the 'Qurbani' , then they obviously don't need to do it. Poverty is a separate issue and Islam already has values put in place to help alleviate it, i.e. zakat.

God knows best about the reward for this sacrifice.

I agree with u some people stupid doesn't understand if u want to help poor people.u can donate every month some money that's it and qurbani also help poor people bcz there is soo many poor people who doesn't eat meat every time plus the don't have to buy

 

[Mamoon]

Sheep and goat meat is very expensive and poor people can't afford it. This is an occasion where they get to eat it. If you give them money instead of this meat it will be used on other expenses. The needy people have enough problems and worries and they can't spend money on something which is somewhat of a luxury.
One is supposed to give zakat and do charity and if we do it properly the poverty rate will decrease massively. This is just an occasion to provide the needy people with meat which they can't get and I don't understand the logic of doing the barbecues and having it yourself or giving it to friends and relatives. This is for the poor people only. We consume it ourselves all year long. Inshallah when I will be independent in the future I will make sure I don't consume a single bit nor will I give it to relatives and those who will give me shall be be distributed amongst the poor as well.
It is theirs, not ours.

 

[zaid65]

Sheep and goat meat is very expensive and poor people can't afford it. This is an occasion where they get to eat it.

With the same logic, poor people can eat the food for 30 days with the same amount of money. Taste matter for rich or middle class but when you are starving, you need food not the taste.

The needy people have enough problems and worries and they can't spend money on something which is somewhat of a luxury

So you are saying, lets forget about their main problems, lets provide 3 days of luxury and do not address the main issues?

One is supposed to give zakat and do charity and if we do it properly the poverty rate will decrease massively

I am fully aware and I have already pointed out the Zakat issue, but the level of poverty is beyond the meanings of Zakat, we need to find other ways to help the poor and one could be to use Qurbani amount to help their cause. I did not see any main purpose other than ritual being repeated every year and only so called 1/3rd ( the worst meat ) being given to poor for 3 days.

I will be independent in the future I will make sure I don't consume a single bit nor will I give it to relatives and those who will give me shall be be distributed amongst the poor as well.
It is theirs, not ours.

For the last 15 years, I have not used a single piece Qurbani meat for myself, but I still do not see the main purpose serves here.

 

[zaid65]

Zaid making its own Fiqh!

the first you mentiond is country where people cant afford food.

well. qurbani is perfect way to get them food for thee days atleast.

You never leave any opportunity to get personal and try to level your past humiliations which you suffered due to Afridi issue.

You need some serious therapy

 

[youboy]

Islamic method of Slaughtering animals is better
...scientific reason...

Al Shaddad Bin Aous has quoted this tradition of the Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H.) "God calls for mercy in everything, so be merciful when you kill and when you slaughter, sharpen your blade to relieve its pain".

Many allegations have been made that Islamic slaughter is not humane to animals. However, Professor Schultz and his colleague Dr. Hazim of the Hanover University, Germany, proved through an experiment, using an electroencephalograph (EEG) and electrocardiogram (ECG) that *Islamic slaughter is THE humane method of slaughter* and captive bolt stunning, practiced by the Western method, causes severe pain to the animal. The results surprised many.


Experimental Details:

1. Several electrodes were surgically implanted at various points of the skull of all animals, touching the surface of thebrain.

2. The animals were allowed to recover for several weeks.

3. Some animals were slaughtered by making a swift, deep incision with a sharp knife on the neck cutting the jugular veins and carotid Arteries of both sides; as also the trachea and esophagusHalal Method.

4. Some animals were stunned using a captive bolt pistol humane slaughter by the western method.

5. During the experiment, EEG and ECG were recorded on all animals to record the condition of the brain and heart during the course of slaughter and stunning.

Results and Discussion:

I - Halal Method

1. The first three seconds from the time of Islamic slaughter as recorded on the EEG did not show any change from the graph before slaughter, thus indicating that the animal did not feel any pain during or immediately after the incision.

2. For the following 3 seconds, the EEG recorded a condition of deep sleep - unconsciousness. This is due to a large quantity of blood gushing out from the body.

3. After the above mentioned 6 seconds, the EEG recorded zero level, showing no feeling of pain at all.

4. As the brain message (EEG) dropped to zero level, the heart was still pounding and the body convulsing vigorously (a reflex action of the spinal cord) driving maximum blood from the body: resulting in hygienic meat for the consumer.


II - Western method by C.B.P. Stunning

1. The animals were apparently unconscious soon after stunning.

2. EEG showed severe pain immediately after stunning.

3. The hearts of the animal stunned by C.B.P. stopped beating earlier as compared to those of the animals slaughtered according to the Halal method resulting in the retention of more blood in the meat. This in turn is unhygienic for the consumer.

(Many thanks to Muslim Students Organization - University of Miami)

http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/an/an_slaughter.htm


Mercy Halal Islamic Slaughter

Part 1
[utube]C2kV3gLons4[/utube]

Part2 A
[utube]g3MbgL6Jboc[/utube]

Part2 B
[utube]rF3mK5XRv9E[/utube]

 

[zaid65]

Some of the meat will go towards the poor who are starving, vulnerable and are probably being treated like animals by their own state. If animals are being kept in poor conditions, that is lamentable and understandably wrong.

Most people are meat-eaters. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean the animal isn't being slaughtered somewhere else. Normally, we buy the meat already cleaned and packaged. For Eid, we buy the actual animals and give the meat to the needy.

If we are to discuss sacrifice at Eid then what about Thanksgiving ? There should be the same level of concern for the turkeys.

However that being said, having witnessed a live qurbani, I believe the system of Halal butchery needs to be updated and made more humane. My understanding of the issue is that the meat is halal as long as the animal is not already dead before being slaughtered - and of course that it hasn't been dedicated to some false deity. As such, there is no reason why stunning pens as used widely in the Western world cannot be used for Halal butchery either. In most cases these stunning pens only render the animal unconscious (as opposed to dead), which means that they can still be made halal in the 'traditional' method while still unconscious. The blood can then be drained as normal.

Stunning may not be appropriate for smaller animals such as chicken - who may die on account of the stun itself - therefore rendering the meat non-halal. But for larger animals such as goats, cattle etc. it should be considered as a more humane alternative.

I am glad you used the word some, yes only some of the meat being given to the poors who eat meat for 2-3 days, cant stored meat for longer periods due to non availability of the refrigerator. On the other hand, rich eat the meat for whole month.

 

[zaid65]

Islamic method of Slaughtering animals is better
...scientific reason...

Al Shaddad Bin Aous has quoted this tradition of the Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H.) "God calls for mercy in everything, so be merciful when you kill and when you slaughter, sharpen your blade to relieve its pain".

Many allegations have been made that Islamic slaughter is not humane to animals. However, Professor Schultz and his colleague Dr. Hazim of the Hanover University, Germany, proved through an experiment, using an electroencephalograph (EEG) and electrocardiogram (ECG) that *Islamic slaughter is THE humane method of slaughter* and captive bolt stunning, practiced by the Western method, causes severe pain to the animal. The results surprised many.


Experimental Details:

1. Several electrodes were surgically implanted at various points of the skull of all animals, touching the surface of thebrain.

2. The animals were allowed to recover for several weeks.

3. Some animals were slaughtered by making a swift, deep incision with a sharp knife on the neck cutting the jugular veins and carotid Arteries of both sides; as also the trachea and esophagusHalal Method.

4. Some animals were stunned using a captive bolt pistol humane slaughter by the western method.

5. During the experiment, EEG and ECG were recorded on all animals to record the condition of the brain and heart during the course of slaughter and stunning.

Results and Discussion:

I - Halal Method

1. The first three seconds from the time of Islamic slaughter as recorded on the EEG did not show any change from the graph before slaughter, thus indicating that the animal did not feel any pain during or immediately after the incision.

2. For the following 3 seconds, the EEG recorded a condition of deep sleep - unconsciousness. This is due to a large quantity of blood gushing out from the body.

3. After the above mentioned 6 seconds, the EEG recorded zero level, showing no feeling of pain at all.

4. As the brain message (EEG) dropped to zero level, the heart was still pounding and the body convulsing vigorously (a reflex action of the spinal cord) driving maximum blood from the body: resulting in hygienic meat for the consumer.


II - Western method by C.B.P. Stunning

1. The animals were apparently unconscious soon after stunning.

2. EEG showed severe pain immediately after stunning.

3. The hearts of the animal stunned by C.B.P. stopped beating earlier as compared to those of the animals slaughtered according to the Halal method resulting in the retention of more blood in the meat. This in turn is unhygienic for the consumer.

(Many thanks to Muslim Students Organization - University of Miami)

http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/an/an_slaughter.htm


Mercy Halal Islamic Slaughter

Part 1
[utube]C2kV3gLons4[/utube]

Part2 A
[utube]g3MbgL6Jboc[/utube]

Part2 B
[utube]rF3mK5XRv9E[/utube]

My friend, I have absolute no issue with the Islamic method of slaughtering the animal, but I have serious issues with the slaughtering the animal in open public places , especially where people take little kids to watch ( without knowing and understanding the psychological trauma) .

You can make the argument, all the violence and brutal killing among each other in the Islamic world could be the result of watching this kind of trauma in the early age.

 

[Khaleefa]

As you claim to be well aware of Qurbani ritual, I am sure you must also know the prescribed method Qurbani is that you should buy an animal and raise it for at least a year so that a loving relation is developed between you and, for example, the baby goat you had bought a year ago.
Now distributing a minimum of one third meat to poor is the secondary aspect. The actual reason behind Qurani is that you sacrify something in the way of Allah that you really loved, and THAT'S the purpose of Qurbani. Just as Hz Ibrahim (as) was ready to sacrify the dearest thing to him in the way of Allah.


A friend of mine bought a small baby goat and raised it for a couple years till it got ready for Qurbani.
At the time of Qurbani, he told me that, everybody in house was crying when we slaughtered that goat. And I replied, you may have just decreased the hasanaat of Qurbani because instead of crying you guys should have been happy that you giving something in the way of Allah that you truly love.

In many of our households for example, we will give old and used shoes n clothes in charity not because we love Allah but that stuff is no longer needed by us. Do you now understand the purpose behind Qurbani?

This.
Qurbani is primarily NOT for feeding poor or charity or money or distributing the meat but its a sacrifice of your dear feeling in an act of obedience. Allah's happiness, his commands and his obedience should ideally be a Muslim's top most priority. It's a step beyond logic, reasoning, wisdom and scientific proofs.

To OP, why didn't hadhrat Ibraheem (as) reply back to Allah and said, OH Allah, let me help a few poor people with my hard earned money instead of scarifying the most loving thing of my life in your way?
Or let me slaughter a few cows, camels, goats and few sheep but not my son?

Fused Bulb gave an excellent example for charity; how many times have you and I bought a brand new Levi Jean, Oakley pair of glasses, a Ralf Lauren shirt, and gave it charity? I guess NEVER!
But yes, after these clothing articles are worn off to a point where we don't want them anymore, we will give them in Charity (ungli katwaa kar shaheedon Mein naam shamil karwa lo).

 

[youboy]

My friend, I have absolute no issue with the Islamic method of slaughtering the animal, but I have serious issues with the slaughtering the animal in open public places , especially where people take little kids to watch ( without knowing and understanding the psychological trauma) .

You can make the argument, all the violence and brutal killing among each other in the Islamic world could be the result of watching this kind of trauma in the early age.

I have been watching the slaughtering on Eid as long as a I remember. I didn't get into any psychological trauma.
The reason that I was taught by my parents and grand parents what total submission to Allah (SWT) means and what is the importance of this Sunnah of Hazrat Ibraheem (AS). So it is the responsibility of the parents.

As per the topic, my answer remain same as was in my post # 35

 

[Nitin Tomer]

"God calls for mercy in everything, so be merciful when you kill and when you slaughter, sharpen your blade to relieve its pain".

This statement is wrong on so many levels that I can't even explain.

I have been watching the slaughtering on Eid as long as a I remember. I didn't get into any psychological trauma.

You think so, not many would agree with that...

 

[dhump]

I know " Qurbani" is sunat-e-Ibrahimi and it was revealed long time ago and I know the whole history how it was started.

But looking at the poverty in our country, hundreds of thousands of people do not eat the food, millions of kids cannot afford to go to school, hundreds of thousands of girls not able to get married due to financial reasons ( some of them are forced for prostitution) .

My question here, instead of sacrificing the animal, why cant people donate the same amount of money to poor people for some better cause. I do not see people or Islam getting benefit from eating unlimited amount of meat for one month and on top of that, we are exposing our young kids to watch the brutal slaughtering of the animal.

If we would spend all the money which we spend on sacrificing the animal, to help the poor people ( in addition to pay Zakat), this could help lot of people and would be more beneficial than the original cause.

I know in the religion, everything is fixed but I personally think there are certain things need to be looked and revised by the Islamic scholars and this one thing need to be looked again.

A very valid question raised in my opinion .The point of this whole festival is "Sunnat-e-Ibrahimi" so sunnah is a sunnah which is fulfilled by performing it. There are logical and spiritual reasons behind it let me break it down as per my understanding.

Logical one in my opinion is that God created different creatures to support humanity human being the superior of them all have privileged to feed on Meat, Vegetable etc, one reason for doing this Qurbani is to make sure that Muslims stay this way and our children are taught since early childhood to understand this factor. Being a whole vegetation or just eating not natural human behavior human should eat what ever is easily available and what is good for him (so halal and tayab as per Quran).

Spiritual again like mentioned by some others we are humans and we get attached to animals (well most of us do) no matter if they are food (end of the day) . So message we gave by doing this Qurbani is ultimately giving Allah this surety that we will be able to give anything what to ever even something we love most and feel great pity in slaughtering (because most of us are not custom to see animals getting slaughtered).

You raised an ultimate valid point why to waste money on this and this is very very valid. Islam is not asking you to buy cows or goats for hundreds of thousands of rupees nor it is written in Quran that a guy who buys a cow for 1k rs will get less sawab then the one who will buy it for 10k . So people using Qurbani as the mean of showing off are not doing it right of course it is better to do a lot of charity and this is the base teaching of Islam also their are some rules of Qurbani when it is valid for you to do it of-course it don't make sense that you do Qurbani when some of your relatives or xyz is dying of hunger and dont have money to pay for food Muslims need to understand the priorities and proper Islamic charity culture should be implemented.

 

[Red Devil]

Sir g Qurbani is a compulsory obligation for anyone who owns 613.35g silver (19.71 troy ounces silver) and/ or 87.48g of gold or its value in cash.

C O U M P L S U R Y, F A R Z which means you have to to do it not your choice.

 

[asif9138]

Guys this is order from ALLAh and his Nabi. we have to follow whatever ALLAH and his Nabi command us! you can not come up with your own common sence!
what do you think ALLAH did not know that in pakistan will be poverty and alot of poor people.

Only question then i ask you.. why do you go to Hijj? why not give that money to poor people?

 

[asif9138]

Zaid,

I completely agree with your point, in fact for the last several years, I have stopped paying for Qurbani, instead I give that money to charitable org. or to poor relatives or people we know of who really need it. I think this way my money gets spent in the most useful way and actually goes towards improving someone's life. Now I understand that this may not be permissible by Islam if going by what the so called scholars on PP are saying but you know what, I really do not care. My relationship with God is my own personal matter and if I am doing anything wrong I will face the consequences. Islam tells us to "think" and "reason" , and IMO giving money to charity instead of paying for qurbani is a better way to help people.

saadibaba, i think you need to contect with your scholars! you can not do against ALLAH and his Nabi's commands. If the order is make qurbani then make qurbani, please do not use your common sense! why do not we pray fajar nammaz at 10 am, 10 am is better everyone can pray at that time but order is to pray before sun rise.
Why do you go to hijj, spend alot of money there? why do not you give that money to poor people?
Order of Qurbani from ALLAH and his nabi! make sure you follow that. no scholar has asked us for qurbani! still i request you to ask your scholar about that. I am sure he will ask you to do Qurbani!

 

[GentleMan]

i have a different point of view on this..and i am not a muslim..and not believer in any god..so please understand where i am coming from..
i think sacrifice means giving up something you hold dear...in old times..livestock was wealth..and dear to people..your status was counted by how many sheep, how many goats, how many cows you have etc... the tradition has continued to this age..but today do people hold animals as dear possessions..maybe only farmers or those who deal with animals..but in general..a person may feel more attached to his iphone than a goat.. give him a choice..donate your iphone to a poor student..or donate a goat to a poor person..the person will happily donate the goat..just giving an example..how the sacrifice of animals does not mean the same level of sacrifice which it meant in olden days..not saying that people must start sacrificing other things..

 

[FusedBulb]

i have a different point of view on this..and i am not a muslim..and not believer in any god..so please understand where i am coming from..
i think sacrifice means giving up something you hold dear...in old times..livestock was wealth..and dear to people..your status was counted by how many sheep, how many goats, how many cows you have etc... the tradition has continued to this age..but today do people hold animals as dear possessions..maybe only farmers or those who deal with animals..but in general..a person may feel more attached to his iphone than a goat.. give him a choice..donate your iphone to a poor student..or donate a goat to a poor person..the person will happily donate the goat..just giving an example..how the sacrifice of animals does not mean the same level of sacrifice which it meant in olden days..not saying that people must start sacrificing other things..

This is some what true. But ritual of Qurbani did not start with slaughtering live stock. You must understand the actual logic behind the sacrifice for those who believe. When the prophet Ibrahim (as) put his son under the knife he did NOT mean to help the poor, or provide charity or distribute the meat. His (as) ONLY wish was obedience to his lord to a point where he was ready to sacrify the most loving thing he had in life and that's BEYOND money.
In today's day and age perhaps the believers are doing the absolute bear minimum when they spend some money, buy an animal a day before Eid and slaughter it. As I said before, the prescribe method is to raise the animal (like your family member) which will develop a feeling between you and the animal and then happily slaughter it in the obedience of your lord.

You gave sorta good example of an iPhone and goat. I will put it in another way. Ask a typical elderly American lady to slaughter her dog or cat that has become part of her life in the obedience of Jesus Christ.

Again, Qurbani is primarily NOT about money, charity or helping the poor or distributing the meat. It's about giving up for Allah that you REALLY hold dear, and that's BEYOND money.

 

[asif9138]

This is some what true. But ritual of Qurbani did not start with slaughtering live stock. You must understand the actual logic behind the sacrifice for those who believe. When the prophet Ibrahim (as) put his son under the knife he did NOT mean to help the poor, or provide charity or distribute the meat. His (as) ONLY wish was obedience to his lord to a point where he was ready to sacrify the most loving thing he had in life and that's BEYOND money.
In today's day and age perhaps the believers are doing the absolute bear minimum when they spend some money, buy an animal a day before Eid and slaughter it. As I said before, the prescribe method is to raise the animal (like your family member) which will develop a feeling between you and the animal and then happily slaughter it in the obedience of your lord.

You gave sorta good example of an iPhone and goat. I will put it in another way. Ask a typical elderly American lady to slaughter her dog or cat that has become part of her life in the obedience of Jesus Christ.

Again, Qurbani is primarily NOT about money, charity or helping the poor or distributing the meat. It's about giving up for Allah that you REALLY hold dear, and that's BEYOND money.

yes! Plus Qurbani is not for everyone. its for those who can afford! people who do not have money or can not do it they do not have to do it!

 

[GentleMan]

You gave sorta good example of an iPhone and goat. I will put it in another way. Ask a typical elderly American lady to slaughter her dog or cat that has become part of her life in the obedience of Jesus Christ.

Again, Qurbani is primarily NOT about money, charity or helping the poor or distributing the meat. It's about giving up for Allah that you REALLY hold dear, and that's BEYOND money.

I dont know the reason for Qurbani.. but as you said that it is about giving up for Allah what you really hold dear...do you think people really hold goats so dear nowadays? that is what i am trying to say that the attachment to the thing you sacrifice is not so strong as it must be in those days...
i am talking about sacrifice per se..not about Islam or any other religion..sacrificing animals happens among Hindus too.. an the same views i have that the sacrifice of animals does not have the same meaning in the present age as it used to have in the earlier days..

 

[Rizwan25]

I find it funny that people don't care about slaughtering all year long but when it comes to eid, they all feel sorry for the animals.

Thats exactly my point, which Mr Zaid compeletely ignored. Why not help the poor all year along and not just once a year? By not doing qurbai once a year aint gona make a difference at all.

 

[zaid65]

Thats exactly my point, which Mr Zaid compeletely ignored. Why not help the poor all year along and not just once a year? By not doing qurbai once a year aint gona make a difference at all.

Instead of jumping and making a point , try to read all the posts carefully. Let me explain one more time, I have no problem with slaughtering but have serious issues with doing it open in public places , especially in front of younger population.

May be for some people it is not an issue but in educated and civilized world, it is totally unacceptable.

 

[asif9138]

Instead of jumping and making a point , try to read all the posts carefully. Let me explain one more time, I have no problem with slaughtering but have serious issues with doing it open in public places , especially in front of younger population.

May be for some people it is not an issue but in educated and civilized world, it is totally unacceptable.

why not in public places? If we do not do this in front o younger population, they would not know what is Eid ul edha for? they would not know what is Qurbani? why we slaughter animal on this day! This qurbani is going on since 1400 years ago! no body has serious issues! We all grew up watching slaughtering animal every year. we did not have any issue yet! im sure this young population will not have any issue either!

BTW what you mean by serious issues?

 

[FusedBulb]

I dont know the reason for Qurbani.. but as you said that it is about giving up for Allah what you really hold dear...do you think people really hold goats so dear nowadays? that is what i am trying to say that the attachment to the thing you sacrifice is not so strong as it must be in those days...
i am talking about sacrifice per se..not about Islam or any other religion..sacrificing animals happens among Hindus too.. an the same views i have that the sacrifice of animals does not have the same meaning in the present age as it used to have in the earlier days..

Nope, I don't think you fully understood what I am saying. I would have agreed with you if you have said something like this instead of the bold and underlined part.

"... the same views i have that the sacrifice of Sons does not have the same meaning in the present age as it used to have in the earlier days"

The sacrifice ritual did NOT start with slaughtering an "animal". It started with a "son". Hindus I think don't have this concept.

Now comes the attachment part .. Of course Allah made it easy on believers to sacrify an animal instead of their sons. The question is ... how can you have that sorta attachment as your son with something else and then be ready to give it up? The closest of attachment you get is most likely with another living specie. That's generally the human nature. Many people love their pet dogs more than their cars. There will be a point when you will get bored of your highly attached iphone or a pair of Versace Jeans or BMW car but for many people, attachment to their pet animals is even more stronger. As I said, ask a lady to sacrify her dog or cat and perhaps she will prefer to donate $1000.00 instead.
The element of attachment tends to be more stronger with other living species than electronics or articles of clothing or mechanical vehicles.

And this is how we can get a higher degree of attachment to an animal when we raise it from a calf or baby goat or a baby lamb, and the be ready to sacrify it for the sake of Allah.

The distributing of meat and helping the poor are all secondary things in this particular ritual that we call "Qurbani".

And finally, as I said before ... we don't really put ourselves to test and see how obedient we are to Allah when we buy an animal only a couple days before Eid and then sacrify it. (regardless of whether it was for show off or helping the poor people or following the Ibrahim Sunnah etc).

 

[FusedBulb]

I know " Qurbani" is sunat-e-Ibrahimi and it was revealed long time ago and I know the whole history how it was started.

But looking at the poverty in our country, hundreds of thousands of people do not eat the food, millions of kids cannot afford to go to school, hundreds of thousands of girls not able to get married due to financial reasons ( some of them are forced for prostitution) .

My question here, instead of sacrificing the animal, why cant people donate the same amount of money to poor people for some better cause. I do not see people or Islam getting benefit from eating unlimited amount of meat for one month and on top of that, we are exposing our young kids to watch the brutal slaughtering of the animal.

If we would spend all the money which we spend on sacrificing the animal, to help the poor people ( in addition to pay Zakat), this could help lot of people and would be more beneficial than the original cause.

I know in the religion, everything is fixed but I personally think there are certain things need to be looked and revised by the Islamic scholars and this one thing need to be looked again.

Instead of jumping and making a point , try to read all the posts carefully. Let me explain one more time, I have no problem with slaughtering but have serious issues with doing it open in public places , especially in front of younger population.

May be for some people it is not an issue but in educated and civilized world, it is totally unacceptable.

I couldn't find a direct link between your original post and your last post; however, are you finally saying that Qurbani is totally OK with you as long as the animals are slaughtered behind the closed doors?

I agree with you to a very minor extent when this actually happened here in USA. The gentleman's kids were aged 13, 14 and 16. None of them had ever seen an animal being slaughtered in front of them. So this friend of mine on one Eid decided out of the blue to expose the kids to this ritual in an effort to let them know it was part of deen.
He took the kids on Eid day to the slaughter house, and soon as the lamb was slaughtered the younger kid had a minor panic attack where the threw up and all.

However, in places like Pakistan where animals are slaughtered in the open public I have seen the total opposite of it. All the kids from "Muhallah" actually gather around the cow or Ox or Lamb when it's brought down and slaughtered in their street. No one gets a panic attack.
But what my friend did was not the appropriate way. He did not mentally prepared the kids and all of a sudden exposed them to it.

And the finally comes to a very odd point where you tried to link the terrorism activities with kids who watch Qurbani. And you thought perhaps our kids become more prone to become terrorists since they witness qurbani.
Did you notice that the kids have been witnessing Qurbani for 1400 years and this terrorism BS has started less than a decade ago and it could have serious INTERNATIONAL political factors behind it?
Did you notice the khilafat of Hz Usman (ra) where the total area of Islamic empire was 2,200,000 sq/km, and there was no Zakat takers? Zakat money was brought into streets and announcements were made but no body would take it. That money would finally be deposited to baitual maal where it was used as a surplus budget for non-muslims? Minority rights were protected in an exemplary way and yes, there were millions of Muslim kids who would witness Qurbani. How come all of sudden Muslim kids are prone to become terrorists if they witness Qurbani?

 

[asif9138]

I couldn't find a direct link between your original post and your last post; however, are you finally saying that Qurbani is totally OK with you as long as the animals are slaughtered behind the closed doors?

I agree with you to a very minor extent when this actually happened here in USA. The gentleman's kids were aged 13, 14 and 16. None of them had ever seen an animal being slaughtered in front of them. So this friend of mine on one Eid decided out of the blue to expose the kids to this ritual in an effort to let them know it was part of deen.
He took the kids on Eid day to the slaughter house, and soon as the lamb was slaughtered the younger kid had a minor panic attack where the threw up and all.

However, in places like Pakistan where animals are slaughtered in the open public I have seen the total opposite of it. All the kids from "Muhallah" actually gather around the cow or Ox or Lamb when it's brought down and slaughtered in their street. No one gets a panic attack.
But what my friend did was not the appropriate way. He did not mentally prepared the kids and all of a sudden exposed them to it.

And the finally comes to a very odd point where you tried to link the terrorism activities with kids who watch Qurbani. And you thought perhaps our kids become more prone to become terrorists since they witness qurbani.
Did you notice that the kids have been witnessing Qurbani for 1400 years and this terrorism BS has started less than a decade ago and it could have serious INTERNATIONAL political factors behind it?
Did you notice the khilafat of Hz Usman (ra) where the total area of Islamic empire was 2,200,000 sq/km, and there was no Zakat takers? Zakat money was brought into streets and announcements were made but no body would take it. That money would finally be deposited to baitual maal where it was used as a surplus budget for non-muslims? Minority rights were protected in an exemplary way and yes, there were millions of Muslim kids who would witness Qurbani. How come all of sudden Muslim kids are prone to become terrorists if they witness Qurbani?

great post!

 

[zaid65]

I couldn't find a direct link between your original post and your last post; however, are you finally saying that Qurbani is totally OK with you as long as the animals are slaughtered behind the closed doors?

I agree with you to a very minor extent when this actually happened here in USA. The gentleman's kids were aged 13, 14 and 16. None of them had ever seen an animal being slaughtered in front of them. So this friend of mine on one Eid decided out of the blue to expose the kids to this ritual in an effort to let them know it was part of deen.
He took the kids on Eid day to the slaughter house, and soon as the lamb was slaughtered the younger kid had a minor panic attack where the threw up and all.

However, in places like Pakistan where animals are slaughtered in the open public I have seen the total opposite of it. All the kids from "Muhallah" actually gather around the cow or Ox or Lamb when it's brought down and slaughtered in their street. No one gets a panic attack.
But what my friend did was not the appropriate way. He did not mentally prepared the kids and all of a sudden exposed them to it.

And the finally comes to a very odd point where you tried to link the terrorism activities with kids who watch Qurbani. And you thought perhaps our kids become more prone to become terrorists since they witness qurbani.
Did you notice that the kids have been witnessing Qurbani for 1400 years and this terrorism BS has started less than a decade ago and it could have serious INTERNATIONAL political factors behind it?
Did you notice the khilafat of Hz Usman (ra) where the total area of Islamic empire was 2,200,000 sq/km, and there was no Zakat takers? Zakat money was brought into streets and announcements were made but no body would take it. That money would finally be deposited to baitual maal where it was used as a surplus budget for non-muslims? Minority rights were protected in an exemplary way and yes, there were millions of Muslim kids who would witness Qurbani. How come all of sudden Muslim kids are prone to become terrorists if they witness Qurbani?

Please read post# 56, you will get the answer of my point.

No I raised the slaughtering openly in public places as another issue. I still stand corrected on my stand.

 

[asif9138]

My friend, I have absolute no issue with the Islamic method of slaughtering the animal, but I have serious issues with the slaughtering the animal in open public places , especially where people take little kids to watch ( without knowing and understanding the psychological trauma) .

You can make the argument, all the violence and brutal killing among each other in the Islamic world could be the result of watching this kind of trauma in the early age.

thats just rubbish statement!

 

[zaid65]

Guys this is order from ALLAh and his Nabi. we have to follow whatever ALLAH and his Nabi command us! you can not come up with your own common sence!
what do you think ALLAH did not know that in pakistan will be poverty and alot of poor people.

Only question then i ask you.. why do you go to Hijj? why not give that money to poor people?

If there is a family around me is extremely poor, people around me sleeping with hunger, there are girls around me are not getting married because of financial issues, I would first take care of those people than go to Hajj.

 

[GentleMan]

it reminds me of a story I read as a kid.. i was going to write it here..but searched and found it..

The Cobbler's Hajj

It is related that a noted Muslim scholar Abdullah bin Mubarak, had a dream while he was sleeping near the Kaaba.

Abdullah bin Mubarak saw two angels' descend from the sky, and start talking to each other.

One of the angels asked the other: "Do you know how many people have come for Hajj this year?"

The other angel replied: "Six hundred thousand have come for Hajj."

Abdullah bin Mubarak had also gone for Hajj that year.

The first angel asked: "How many people's Hajj has been accepted?"

The second replied: "I wonder if anyone's Hajj has been accepted at all."

Abdullah bin Mubarak was grieved to hear that. He thought, "So many people have come from all over the world, crossing so many obstacles like rivers, jungles, mountains, suffered so many hardships, and meeting so many expenses. Would their effort be wasted? Allah does not let anyone's effort go to waste".


He had thought only so far when he heard the other angel speak: "There is a cobbler in Damascus. His name is Ali bin al-Mufiq. He could not come for Hajj, but Allah has accepted his intention of Hajj. Not only will he get the reward for Hajj, but because of him, all the Hajjis will be rewarded.




When Abdullah bin Mubarak woke up, he decided he would go to Damascus and meet that cobbler whose Hajj intentions carried such a lot of weight.

On reaching Damascus, Abdullah bin Mubarak inquired if anyone knew a cobbler named Ali bin al-Mufiq. The town people directed him to a house. When a man appeared from the house Abdullah bin Mubarak greeted him and asked his name. The man replied "Ali bin al-Mufiq".

Abdullah bin Mubarak asked: "What do you do for a living?"

Ali replied: "I am a cobbler". Then Ali asked the stranger's name that had come looking for him.

Abdullah bin Mubarak was a very well-known scholar of Islam, when Abdullah bin Mubarak introduced him self, the cobbler was anxious to find out why such a well known scholar was seeking him out.

When Abdullah bin Mubarak asked Ali to tell him if he had made any plans to go for Hajj. Ali replied "For thirty years I have lived in the hope of performing the Hajj. This year I had saved enough to go for Hajj, but Allah did not will it, so I couldn't make my intention translate into action.

Abdullah bin Mubarak was eager to find out how could this man's Hajj be accepted and blessed for all the people who went for Hajj that year when he didn't go for Hajj in the first place. While talking to the cobbler he could feel a certain purity in his heart. Islam regards greatness not in wealth or in power, but in civility, in good manners and the goodness of heart.

Abdullah bin Mubarak further asked: "why could you not go on Hajj?". In order not to disclose the reason, Ali again replied "it was Allah's will".

When Abdullah bin Mubarak persisted, Ali revealed: "Once I went to see my neighbor's house. His family was just sitting down for dinner. Although I was not hungry I thought my neighbor would invite me to sit down for dinner out of courtesy but I could see that my neighbor was grieved about something and wanted to avoid inviting me for dinner.

After some hesitation the neighbor told me: "I am sorry I cannot invite you for food. We were without food for three days and I could not bear to see the pain of hunger of my children. I went out looking for food today and found a dead donkey. In my desperation I cut out some meat from the dead animal, and brought it home so that my wife could cook this meat. It is halal (lawful or permitted) for us because of our extreme condition of hunger, but I cannot offer it to you."

Ali continued: "On hearing this, my heart bled with tears. I got up and went home, collected the three thousand dinars I had saved for Hajj, and gave my neighbor the money. I too had to go hungry but that was to save money for Hajj, but I thought helping my neighbor during his difficult times was more important. Although I still desire to go for Hajj if Allah wills."

Abdullah bin Mubarak was greatly inspired by the cobbler's story and told the cobbler of his dream.

God is merciful and shows mercy to those who do likewise to his creatures. This act of compassion on the part of the cobbler was so pleasing to God that it not only earned him the reward of Hajj but was extended to all the people who came for Hajj.

Hajj is a journey that can ignite the soul to be reminded of the time it was created and takes it beyond the dimensions of this life to the time it will meet the creator.

The sincere performance of Hajj can transcend a person's day to day life into a spiritual awakening of the highest magnitude. A successful Hajj experience connects us to our creator and the greater compassion of humanity.

 

[asif9138]

If there is a family around me is extremely poor, people around me sleeping with hunger, there are girls around me are not getting married because of financial issues, I would first take care of those people than go to Hajj.

yes doing that your will get more reward from ALLAh! I know few people who actually did that!

For qurbani who have to slaughter animal, after buying animal you have extra money give it to poor people!

 

[zaid65]

yes doing that your will get more reward from ALLAh! I know few people who actually did that!

For qurbani who have to slaughter animal, after buying animal you have extra money give it to poor people!

I have serious issue with this reward and punishment concept.

I think people should do things based on what is more like their responsibilities and duties instead of doing to get rewards from God.

It is very childish and immature to look for reward for your good deeds instead of considering your duty and responsibility.

 

[asif9138]

I have serious issue with this reward and punishment concept.

I think people should do things based on what is more like their responsibilities and duties instead of doing to get rewards from God.

It is very childish and immature to look for reward for your good deeds instead of considering your duty and responsibility.

why do you work? for money right! you just do not work becasue thats your responsibility or your duty. you want to get reward which is money! same stand for religion! we know hijj, qurbani, and other good dead are our duty but there is reward for that too which is Jannat!

Even ALLAH and his Nabi PBUH mention many time reward for good deeds!