"Qurbani", do we still have to do it?

[Yossarian]

The basic purpose of Qurbani is to remember the act of Hazrat Ibrahim A.S. And I don't think anyone will remember it if we start donating money instead of doing Qurbani. This Sunnat will become history. The lessons we learn from this act is that one should be ready to sacrifice anything in the path of ALLAH. I don't think this spiritual meaning can be understand by just donating money.

In the UK, in areas where there are high concentrations of Pakistani muslims, one finds pockets of groups whereby nearly every household does Qurbani, and then goes around their neghbours, families, and friends giving them portions of the meat.
They, of course, in all likelihood have also done Qurbani and, in turn give their families, neighbours and friends portions of the meat including those who are doing the same.

Result?
Nearly every household, taking into account the meat they kept back from their own Qurbani plus the meat they received from their neighbours, families and friends, ends up having far, far more meat than they can reasonably eat or store in their fridges and freezers at home. I'll leave you to guess the rest.

 

[youboy]

why do you work? for money right! you just do not work becasue thats your responsibility or your duty. you want to get reward which is money! same stand for religion! we know hajj, qurbani, and other good deed are our duty but there is reward for that too which is Jannat!

Even ALLAH and his Nabi PBUH mention many time reward for good deeds!

Very nicely explained brother, specially the bold part. Indeed all these are included in our duty as a Muslim.

 

[asif9138]

In the UK, in areas where there are high concentrations of Pakistani muslims, one finds pockets of groups whereby nearly every household does Qurbani, and then goes around their neghbours, families, and friends giving them portions of the meat.
They, of course, in all likelihood have also done Qurbani and, in turn give their families, neighbours and friends portions of the meat including those who are doing the same.

Result?
Nearly every household, taking into account the meat they kept back from their own Qurbani plus the meat they received from their neighbours, families and friends, ends up having far, far more meat than they can reasonably eat or store in their fridges and freezers at home. I'll leave you to guess the rest.

but in abroad people do the qurbani just to show their kids. I know in USA most people do 2 qurbanis, one in pakistan and one in USA to show their kids why we celebrate Eid ul edha! i think same goes in UK. In Uk and USA you will hardly find poor to give meat!

 

[zaid65]

why do you work? for money right! you just do not work becasue thats your responsibility or your duty. you want to get reward which is money! same stand for religion! we know hijj, qurbani, and other good dead are our duty but there is reward for that too which is Jannat!

Even ALLAH and his Nabi PBUH mention many time reward for good deeds!

Money is the basic requirement to live in this world.

My point is, do not follow the religion or try do good deeds for the rewards, try to do it as your responsibility and duty ( instead of for greed of rewards).

 

[zaid65]

In the UK, in areas where there are high concentrations of Pakistani muslims, one finds pockets of groups whereby nearly every household does Qurbani, and then goes around their neghbours, families, and friends giving them portions of the meat.
They, of course, in all likelihood have also done Qurbani and, in turn give their families, neighbours and friends portions of the meat including those who are doing the same.

Result?
Nearly every household, taking into account the meat they kept back from their own Qurbani plus the meat they received from their neighbours, families and friends, ends up having far, far more meat than they can reasonably eat or store in their fridges and freezers at home. I'll leave you to guess the rest.

Trust me, same thing goes to Pakistan and majority of the other Islamic countries. People fill their refrigerators with meat and consume it for next few months , they even arrange BBQ parties with families friends.

 

[asif9138]

Trust me, same thing goes to Pakistan and majority of the other Islamic countries. People fill their refrigerators with meat and consume it for next few months , they even arrange BBQ parties with families friends.

of course your refrigerators will full of meat. you are not suppose to give all the meat of Qurbani to poor! if you slaughter a cow, you have to dived into three parts! one for you, one for your relatives and one for poor!

 

[asif9138]

if you get 100 kg from one cow. you should have 33.3 kg into your house by islamic law! and this 33.3 kg is enough to full a regrigerator!

 

[Yossarian]

Trust me, same thing goes to Pakistan and majority of the other Islamic countries. People fill their refrigerators with meat and consume it for next few months , they even arrange BBQ parties with families friends.

Most people in the UK don't have american sized fridges and freezers that can hold that amount of meat.
As for BBQ parties, have you seen the wet summers in the last couple of years in the UK? And what percentage of Pakistani's that live in the major UK towns and cities do you think have gardens big enough to hold 'BBQ' parties? That is if they have a garden at all!

And if Eid falls on October/November or later, then BBQ parties? In England? )

 

[Yossarian]

of course your refrigerators will full of meat. you are not suppose to give all the meat of Qurbani to poor! if you slaughter a cow, you have to dived into three parts!

one for you,

Ok.

one for your relatives

And if they too have done Qurbani, then they too will give their one thirds to their relatives, you included.
Thus, in total, you will give one third, and almost a similar amount in total will come back to you from them.

and one for poor!

And where are you going to find 'poor' muslims in somewhere like the Uk, especially if you live in a neighbourhood where vitually every Pakistani family is able to do a Qurbani?

I'll guarantee that all the meat is not consumed in the manner it should be ..... work it out for yourself.

It all sounds great in theory, but you should really think it through before making posts such as above.

 

[asif9138]

Ok.
And if they too have done Qurbani, then they too will give their one thirds to their relatives, you included.
Thus, in total, you will give one third, and almost a similar amount in total will come back to you from them.And where are you going to find 'poor' muslims in somewhere like the Uk, especially if you live in a neighbourhood where vitually every Pakistani family is able to do a Qurbani?

I'll guarantee that all the meat is not consumed in the manner it should be ..... work it out for yourself.

It all sounds great in theory, but you should really think it through before making posts such as above.

thats answer your own question that refrigerators will full of meat. of course one third will come back to you! As i said above you will not find poor in abroad!( read my post about carefully). even i mention above that mostly people in abroad do 2 qurbani. qurbani in UK and usa is to show young genration about muslim culture!

 

[Havoc]

I even have issue with the charity.

Why do we have to give money to poor for God's sake? Do we have to help the poor people for the God sake or for the fear of God or we should do it because it is our duty to help poor and needy human beings?

lol. How about both?

In reality most people use the meat from Qurbani to throw dinner parties and store it for themselves for later use. It's also a big show off kind of thing in Pakistan, where people gloat about how many goats or cows they slaughtered, how they slaughtered more than their neighbor or relatives. I've even seen people walk their cows and goats across their neighborhood to show others how they bought the most expensive animal out there. The whole purpose of Qurbani gets lost in all this one up manship.

I have seen what kind of meat people give it to the poor people in Pakistan. They might as well not give the left over and the worst meat to them, instead just fill the whole refrigerator for extra few months of storage.

One more important point to consider, majority of the people who do Qurbani , do not even pray 5 times a day ( including me), do not follow the other important pillars of Islam, but when it comes to Qurbani, we all become very enthusiastic and emotional and spend lot of money to buy the good looking and expensive animal for show off in the community.

Whether the overall argument is correct or not, the three posts quoted above and their likes have a major flaw. They specifically refer to problems with the culture and people. That is not what you want to use to argue against a religious ritual, because the fault in action that is being specified lies with the culture and people, not the religious ritual in itself. That is simple, common sense to be brutally honest.

 

[Canistani Hero]

Good points raised, Though I can understand why some people are uncomfortable with the whole sacrifice beliefs being questioned

 

[Rizwan25]

Instead of jumping and making a point , try to read all the posts carefully. Let me explain one more time, I have no problem with slaughtering but have serious issues with doing it open in public places , especially in front of younger population.

May be for some people it is not an issue but in educated and civilized world, it is totally unacceptable.

so sahabas and prophet naouzubillah were uncivilized people according to ur theory!

Get a life man!

 

[zaid65]

so sahabas and prophet naouzubillah were uncivilized people according to ur theory!

Get a life man!

Instead of reading the post with Talibaan mentality, try to read the posts and point with open mind and if you disagree, just move on.

This is just a discussion, I am not forcing you to do what I believe is right.

 

[Rizwan25]

Instead of reading the post with Talibaan mentality, try to read the posts and point with open mind and if you disagree, just move on.

This is just a discussion, I am not forcing you to do what I believe is right.

So I have taliban mentality just because I oppose ur idiotic theroy. You either seek attention or are an idiot of first degree who thinks innovation in islam is a timely neccesity. Basically islam is out dated and needs to be revitalized. Thanks much sir but keep your idotic theories to urself.

 

[W63L35]

so sahabas and prophet naouzubillah were uncivilized people according to ur theory!

Get a life man!

Speaking of civilized and educated world........

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http://images.search.yahoo.com/sear...est&fr=yfp-t-521&ei=utf-8&n=30&x=wrt&y=Search

http://images.search.yahoo.com/sear...est&fr=yfp-t-521&ei=utf-8&n=30&x=wrt&y=Search

http://images.search.yahoo.com/sear...est&fr=yfp-t-521&ei=utf-8&n=30&x=wrt&y=Search

 

[arsalan660]

Money is the basic requirement to live in this world.

and Sawab is basic requirement for your life after death which every man should work for in this life.

As for Qurbani, the order of Allah and Nabi comes first. When Allah asked Hazarat Ibrahim (AS) to sacrifice his son He didn't ask any question and try to use his mind and common sense He just accepted the order. Even Nabi have no objection and we the common people making objections on Allah's order. Allah asked for Qurbani once in a year and we have whole year to help poor why only we have objection on Eid like we have objection of Moon in Eid ul Fitr while in whole year we have no problem.

If you can effort it you have to do it.

You have mentioned in one of your post if you have poor around you then you will help them and will not perform Hajj.

If you are Sahib e Istitat then Hajj is Farz on you, whether you have poor around you or not. Helping poor is your other responsibility because when you are able to perform Hajj you can help poor as wel. But not with the money of Hajj but with extra money.

 

[bmwduran]

I know " Qurbani" is sunat-e-Ibrahimi and it was revealed long time ago and I know the whole history how it was started.

But looking at the poverty in our country, hundreds of thousands of people do not eat the food, millions of kids cannot afford to go to school, hundreds of thousands of girls not able to get married due to financial reasons ( some of them are forced for prostitution) .

My question here, instead of sacrificing the animal, why cant people donate the same amount of money to poor people for some better cause. I do not see people or Islam getting benefit from eating unlimited amount of meat for one month and on top of that, we are exposing our young kids to watch the brutal slaughtering of the animal.

If we would spend all the money which we spend on sacrificing the animal, to help the poor people ( in addition to pay Zakat), this could help lot of people and would be more beneficial than the original cause.

I know in the religion, everything is fixed but I personally think there are certain things need to be looked and revised by the Islamic scholars and this one thing need to be looked again.

leave others of your wayward thoughts, if you dont want, dont do it, if someone is poor he would not buy an animal for qurbani, but, if someone is buying a Samsung S3, and is complaining about the prices of goat, he is a hypocrite, and i hate these kind of people

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Dp

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Stone me!

To answer the thread title: Qurbani, do we still have to do it? The answer is a resounding yes.

Muslims perform Hajj (5th pillar of Islam) to commemorate the trials and triumph of Abraham (PBUH) - Has the penny dropped yet?

People trying to rewrite Islam should be sacrificed for the greater good and their intelligence distributed in space.

 

[zaid65]

its a inferiority complex issue bro, you now the saying in urdu "dhobi ka kutta ghar ka na ghat ka".that is exactly the case with op.

Enjoy your superiority complex, no wonder our **** has been whopped all over the world. Oh wait, it is a conspiracy of Jews, Christians and Hindus against us..

 

[bmwduran]

but in abroad people do the qurbani just to show their kids. I know in USA most people do 2 qurbanis, one in pakistan and one in USA to show their kids why we celebrate Eid ul edha! i think same goes in UK. In Uk and USA you will hardly find poor to give meat!

People give it to charities,

 

[asif9138]

People give it to charities,

thats good if they give to charities!

 

[zaid65]

Stone me!

To answer the thread title: Qurbani, do we still have to do it? The answer is a resounding yes.

Muslims perform Hajj (5th pillar of Islam) to commemorate the trials and triumph of Abraham (PBUH) - Has the penny dropped yet?

People trying to rewrite Islam should be sacrificed for the greater good and their intelligence distributed in space.

Dude, you need to calm down during the discussion.

Purpose of this discussion is just to make a simple point, take out this Indian bashing mode for some other time ( you will get an opportunity to use this mode, you better comes out as winner, do not disappoint the nation, everybody is looking at you as a savior).

 

[Rizwan25]

Enjoy your superiority complex, no wonder our **** has been whopped all over the world. Oh wait, it is a conspiracy of Jews, Christians and Hindus against us..

It’s not the Jews or christens, its cancerous people like you who are causing the rifts btw muslim uma by spreading fitna.

 

[zaid65]

It’s not the Jews or christens, its cancerous people like you who are causing the rifts btw muslim uma by spreading fitna.

Yes, keep living in denial, instead of looking at your own short comings, blame everybody else except yourself.

If it is not Jews, Christians or Hindus, it is people like me, I am sure you must have learn this new information today about Muslim Umma in the Eid Namaz

 

[LethalSami]

i know where u coming from, OP...

right now the cheapest meat (beaf) costs around Rs. 200/KG......so the question arises, is that 200 well spent or could that 200 be used even batter to support a poor rather than buying em the rather expensive and unhealthy red meat.

so this is really an optimization problem, let me go get my calc

 

[Pak-Legend]

Money is the basic requirement to live in this world.

My point is, do not follow the religion or try do good deeds for the rewards, try to do it as your responsibility and duty ( instead of for greed of rewards).

Our actions are judged by our intentions. If one only performs good deeds once in awhile, to make it seem as if he is benefiting others - but in reality, he is only doing so for a chance of receiving rewards; then Allah would certainly know this. A true muslim performs good deeds out of his/her heart and not in what the rewards lie for it. Only God knows the true reward for our good deeds. Good deeds should be a responsibility of everyone, and nobody should expect any sort of reward from them.

 

[zaid65]

i know where u coming from, OP...

right now the cheapest meat (beaf) costs around Rs. 200/KG......so the question arises, is that 200 well spent or could that 200 be used even batter to support a poor rather than buying em the rather expensive and unhealthy red meat.

so this is really an optimization problem, let me go get my calc

Exactly!!

Thanks for understanding the simple point and being broad minded ( instead of fixated on stone age).

 

[zaid65]

Our actions are judged by our intentions. If one only performs good deeds once in awhile, to make it seem as if he is benefiting others - but in reality, he is only doing so for a chance of receiving rewards; then Allah would certainly know this. A true muslim performs good deeds out of his/her heart and not in what the rewards lie for it. Only God knows the true reward for our good deeds. Good deeds should be a responsibility of everyone, and nobody should expect any sort of reward from them.

My friend, I already had this discussion, the poor people who are starving or have other needs, which are not being met with Qurbani meat, is not going get anything from our deeds or from our personal rewards.

I care less about good or bad deeds, I care about helping the poor mankind and according to my understanding God also want the same.

If we are doing to get the reward points from God, ( instead of helping the poor), than we need to revise our deeds and our efforts.

I believe, God is not going to punish me if I would spend the money to help the poor vs sacrificing the animal and only give 1/3 meat ( the worst one) to poor and use rest of the meat to have a big party with my family, friends and relatives.

 

[GentleMan]

non muslim, non believer in god here...but this is my opinion..
i find the story of the cobber's hajj very convincing..it fits with my idea of how God would be..if He is..
others who are calling zaid bhai all sorts of names appear to be insecure..that is what blind faith does.. a person who has strong faith will react differently..he will like to answer the question with logic...back his arguments with verses from the holy book.. those who are just dismissing the question appear to be a bit insecure..this is what happens..when you believe in something blindly you mind goes in denial mode.. and doesnt like questions being raised... but if you have faith based on conviction and proper understanding then you deal with the question in an open manner..

 

[zaid65]

I was avoiding to give the details, but have no choice except to disclose this information to make my point more clear and open to everybody.

I have been dealing the same Qurbani issue which I am dealing here with you guys with my family back home as well, and they are forcing me to do the Qurbani. I did try to resist but have to gave up due to many reasons, but I found the middle solution. Instead of doing the whole cow ( normally which I do every year), I told them just to spend minimum money, which is one share of cow and spend rest of the money on other cause.

I found a poor man works in factory, who makes 17,000 rupees per month. His son scored 84% marks and get admission in NED Univ ( top engineering school in the country). I heard, he was not going to send his son because of the financial issue. I took the responsibility of his son's fees and also told my brother to buy a laptop for him ( I thought it would be good to have him laptop for his study use). Ok, now you guys tell me, is this the right place to spend the money or should have sacrificed the whole cow and used the the meat for parties and only 1/3rd meat to be given to poor?

This one kid once become an engineer, could help his whole family, he could become the top scientist and serve the country.

PS: I wish, I could have spend all the money on better cause, I still think we should have spend all the money on better cause. Next year, I will try my best to use all my money on better cause.

 

[Buffet]

I was avoiding to give the details, but have no choice except to disclose this information to make my point more clear and open to everybody.

I have been dealing the same Qurbani issue which I am dealing here with you guys with my family back home as well, and they are forcing me to do the Qurbani. I did try to resist but have to gave up due to many reasons, but I found the middle solution. Instead of doing the whole cow ( normally which I do every year), I told them just to spend minimum money, which is one share of cow and spend rest of the money on other cause.

I found a poor man works in factory, who makes 17,000 rupees per month. His son scored 84% marks and get admission in NED Univ ( top engineering school in the country). I heard, he was not going to send his son because of the financial issue. I took the responsibility of his son's fees and also told my brother to buy a laptop for him ( I thought it would be good to have him laptop for his study use). Ok, now you guys tell me, is this the right place to spend the money or should have sacrificed the whole cow and used the the meat for parties and only 1/3rd meat to be given to poor?

This one kid once become an engineer, could help his whole family, he could become the top scientist and serve the country.

PS: I wish, I could have spend all the money on better cause, I still think we should have spend all the money on better cause. Next year, I will try my best to use all my money on better cause.

Fantastic job.

Your argument of blind faith vs using some common sense will get different answer depending on who is answering. I personally believe in putting donated money to good use because money is not unlimited. Many people simply donate money for various cause without thinking the impact. Best use is to teach someone how to fish rather than give him a fish. Same amount of money can have higher impact to improve society but very few organization try to optimize the use of donated money.

Even for education, money should be spend in such a way that it produces highest returns in terms of impact. Very few foundations even come close to achieving this but I know at least couple of them who come very close.

You are doing commendable job. Keep it up.

 

[LethalSami]

Set people to work

Hadrat Anas (may Allah be pleased with him) said that when a man of the Ansar came to Prophet Muhammad (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) and begged from him, he asked him whether he had nothing in his house.

When he said that he had a piece of cloth, which he used for wearing as well as for spreading on the ground, and a wooden bowl from which he drank water, he told him to bring them to him, and when he did so he took them in his hand and asked, "Who will buy these?" When a man offered a dirham he asked twice or thrice. "Who will offer more than a dirham?" and he gave them to a man who offered two dirhams. He then took the two dirhams and giving them to the Ansari he said, "Buy food with one of them and hand it to your family, and buy an axe with the other and bring it to me." When he bought it, Allah's Prophetic Messenger fixed a handle on it with his own hand and said, "Go gather firewood and sell it, and don't let me see you for a fortnight." The man went away and gathered firewood and sold it. When he had earned ten dirhams he came to him and bought a garment with some of them and food with others. Then Allah's Prophetic Messenger said, "This is better for you than that begging should come as a spot on your face on the Day of Resurrection. Begging is right for only three people: one who is in grinding poverty, one who is seriously in debt, or one who is responsible for blood-wit he finds it difficult to pay." (Abu Dawud)

i also believe in handing them the tools, instead of spoon feeding which is unsustainable............this is also the sunnah

 

[Mr.Saga]

I was avoiding to give the details, but have no choice except to disclose this information to make my point more clear and open to everybody.

I have been dealing the same Qurbani issue which I am dealing here with you guys with my family back home as well, and they are forcing me to do the Qurbani. I did try to resist but have to gave up due to many reasons, but I found the middle solution. Instead of doing the whole cow ( normally which I do every year), I told them just to spend minimum money, which is one share of cow and spend rest of the money on other cause.

I found a poor man works in factory, who makes 17,000 rupees per month. His son scored 84% marks and get admission in NED Univ ( top engineering school in the country). I heard, he was not going to send his son because of the financial issue. I took the responsibility of his son's fees and also told my brother to buy a laptop for him ( I thought it would be good to have him laptop for his study use). Ok, now you guys tell me, is this the right place to spend the money or should have sacrificed the whole cow and used the the meat for parties and only 1/3rd meat to be given to poor?

This one kid once become an engineer, could help his whole family, he could become the top scientist and serve the country.

PS: I wish, I could have spend all the money on better cause, I still think we should have spend all the money on better cause. Next year, I will try my best to use all my money on better cause.

A few years back my family went out of their way to help a girl (distant relative) who was very smart and got admission in engineering in Lahore, Pakistan. We always helped her financially. Rather than giving any poor person or even others in our family we aimed the resources exclusively for her hoping she will become a top engineer or scientist and help her family.

Well she did become an engineer and even worked for a while at a big firm. At her engineering college she fell in love with someone of another faith, converted, and now preaches to others to convert telling us we are lost. She hasnt been outcasted from her family or anything, but she does not assist her family who are in dire straits. They had high hopes from her but those were all washed away. And when we think of what we did to help her,,,we just wish we had helped someone who was more deserving.

Point is, Islam means submitting your will to the will of your creator, the ALLKNOWING. Even with our best intentions and efforts we do not know what's best for us or for others. Only Allah does. So we should stick to what he has commanded us.

I volunteer at a foodbank in Canada which distributes at shelters. You'd be suprised to see how many people fight and lineup for a packet containing no more than a juice box, orange, samosa and a bit of chicken rice.

 

[LethalSami]

^^good ex. Mr. Saga

lesson = don't put all ur eggs in one basket!

 

[Buffet]

She does not assist her family who are in dire straits. They had high hopes from her but those were all washed away. And when we think of what we did to help her,,,we just wish we had helped someone who was more deserving.

Very unfortunate situation but you could not have known. If you help 100 girls/boys like that then majority of them will help their family for sure and most of them will also help unrelated poor kids.

I think identifying brightest from poorest section and helping them to get admission in best college should be the goal. Getting a pledge for 10% of income from everyone, who benefits from this system, will do wonders. Pledge can be voluntary and not everyone will give back to this system but as long as enough people give back then system will become self sufficient without needing donation from outside. But help should be to get them in best college in country and not support them wtih cost during the college.

Why you and Zaid had to cover the cost during the engineering? If they get admission in very good place then getting a loan should be simple. I don't know the ground realities in Pakistan but that's the case in most countries.

 

[youboy]

My friend, I already had this discussion, the poor people who are starving or have other needs, which are not being met with Qurbani meat, is not going get anything from our deeds or from our personal rewards.

I care less about good or bad deeds, I care about helping the poor mankind and according to my understanding God also want the same.

If we are doing to get the reward points from God, ( instead of helping the poor), than we need to revise our deeds and our efforts.

I believe, God is not going to punish me if I would spend the money to help the poor vs sacrificing the animal and only give 1/3 meat ( the worst one) to poor and use rest of the meat to have a big party with my family, friends and relatives.

I was avoiding to give the details, but have no choice except to disclose this information to make my point more clear and open to everybody.

I have been dealing the same Qurbani issue which I am dealing here with you guys with my family back home as well, and they are forcing me to do the Qurbani. I did try to resist but have to gave up due to many reasons, but I found the middle solution. Instead of doing the whole cow ( normally which I do every year), I told them just to spend minimum money, which is one share of cow and spend rest of the money on other cause.

I found a poor man works in factory, who makes 17,000 rupees per month. His son scored 84% marks and get admission in NED Univ ( top engineering school in the country). I heard, he was not going to send his son because of the financial issue. I took the responsibility of his son's fees and also told my brother to buy a laptop for him ( I thought it would be good to have him laptop for his study use). Ok, now you guys tell me, is this the right place to spend the money or should have sacrificed the whole cow and used the the meat for parties and only 1/3rd meat to be given to poor?

This one kid once become an engineer, could help his whole family, he could become the top scientist and serve the country.

PS: I wish, I could have spend all the money on better cause, I still think we should have spend all the money on better cause. Next year, I will try my best to use all my money on better cause.

Innamal a'malu binniyat

By putting one share in the cow you have fulfilled the obligation of Qurbani. May Allah accept it, Ameen. And helping that person by giving the fees of his son you have used the money in a more better way, Good job.

As a Muslim we believe that whatever we get is from Allah(SWT). No matter what effort we put but without the blessing from Allah (SWT) and His giving we will not get anything. Allah tests people by sometimes giving them and sometimes taking away from them. To set the record straight "This is not your money but Allah (SWT) is giving you. If HE can give it then HE can take it away also".

Why you don't think in other way that Allah is giving you all this money from which you are spending to help the needy because of your fulfilling the required obligations.

God forbids if HE takes away from you what he has given for not fulfilling them. Then what you will do? You wont have means to help the needy and also no means to do even the Qurbani, then what you will be thinking?

I have brought up the above example because the same thing happened to someone in my family. They were having the same views as yours about Qurbani but today they don't have even have the means for doing a Qurbani on their behalf, helping the poor or the needy is far from it. I am not saying that Allah(SWT) has taken away from them only because of this, it can be something else, maybe a test, only Allah(SWT) knows all.

Muslim - one who submits to the will of Allah (SWT)

Allah (SWT) has made somethings obligatory for a Muslim to do. If one has means then Qurbani is one of those obligations.

We don't know what will happen to us the next second and you have already planned for next year. May Allah forgive our all sins and accept our all good deeds (and indeed we cannot do any good deed on our own and only Allah (SWT) is the ONE makes us to do it) and also Allah save us and protect us from evil. Ameen

PS: Its a humble request as a Muslim brother, if you have all the means please go for Umrah and Hajj atleast make neeyat of doing it as soon as possible. Insha Allah, Allah(SWT) will give you so much that you will not only be helping one poor person but you will be able to help so many.

 

[saadibaba]

A few years back my family went out of their way to help a girl (distant relative) who was very smart and got admission in engineering in Lahore, Pakistan. We always helped her financially. Rather than giving any poor person or even others in our family we aimed the resources exclusively for her hoping she will become a top engineer or scientist and help her family.

Well she did become an engineer and even worked for a while at a big firm. At her engineering college she fell in love with someone of another faith, converted, and now preaches to others to convert telling us we are lost. She hasnt been outcasted from her family or anything, but she does not assist her family who are in dire straits. They had high hopes from her but those were all washed away. And when we think of what we did to help her,,,we just wish we had helped someone who was more deserving.

Point is, Islam means submitting your will to the will of your creator, the ALLKNOWING. Even with our best intentions and efforts we do not know what's best for us or for others. Only Allah does. So we should stick to what he has commanded us.

I volunteer at a foodbank in Canada which distributes at shelters. You'd be suprised to see how many people fight and lineup for a packet containing no more than a juice box, orange, samosa and a bit of chicken rice.

Not trying to play devils advocate here but maybe she is estranged from her family because her family probably criticized and shunned her for marrying someone outside their faith. You should be proud that she was able to make a good life for herself. It would have been great if she was helping her family too but you cannot expect everything to go the way you want. Main goal should be to help, hope and pray. Maybe she is very happy in her life and that is because of what your family did for her. To tell this story as an example for why giving money set for qurbani to charity is bad, is a bit strange to me. You still managed to help a person get an education and make something out of themselves. If they converted or did not do what you would have liked them to do is besides the point.

 

[zaid65]

Not trying to play devils advocate here but maybe she is estranged from her family because her family probably criticized and shunned her for marrying someone outside their faith. You should be proud that she was able to make a good life for herself. It would have been great if she was helping her family too but you cannot expect everything to go the way you want. Main goal should be to help, hope and pray. Maybe she is very happy in her life and that is because of what your family did for her. To tell this story as an example for why giving money set for qurbani to charity is bad, is a bit strange to me. You still managed to help a person get an education and make something out of themselves. If they converted or did not do what you would have liked them to do is besides the point.

I totally agree Saadi..

I told my family, make sure when give this money to the kid, he does not know who gave this money and just keep it very secret.

I care less if this kid is going to become a Islamic scholar or start drinking alcohol later, not my problem or concern. I did what I have to do and move on.

I dont understand why people have problem when someone from us convert to other faith, what about when other people convert to our faith?

She must have had bad experience from her own religion, the people around her, the family and friends must have done something which made her feel attracted to other faith. Obviously, when poor people see we are spending 2-3 hundred thousand rupees on Qurbani and they cannot eat three times, they will think about something different. ( this is just an example).

 

[Asim2Good]

dont wanna go through whole thread, but to help poor ppl , there is system of Zakat in Islam
Qurbani have nothing to do with it, and u have to devide qurbani meat in three parts and one part goes to poor ppl

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Islamic revisionism in full flow.

Tsk Tsk.

 

[wasim-fan]

Stone me!

To answer the thread title: Qurbani, do we still have to do it? The answer is a resounding yes.

Muslims perform Hajj (5th pillar of Islam) to commemorate the trials and triumph of Abraham (PBUH) - Has the penny dropped yet?

People trying to rewrite Islam should be sacrificed for the greater good and their intelligence distributed in space.

Interesting. Is that sort of thinking encouraged in Islam ? People who critique or have questions or doubts should be sacrificed.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Funny how users are missing the substance of my post.

Here it is again:

Muslims perform Hajj (5th pillar of Islam) to commemorate the trials and triumph of Abraham (PBUH) - Has the penny dropped yet?

Qurbani, do we still have to do it? YES!

 

[zaid65]

Interesting. Is that sort of thinking encouraged in Islam ? People who critique or have questions or doubts should be sacrificed.

I am glad you have picked up his stone age, Talibaan, uneducated back ground, Madrassa mentality.

I am sure, Mr. Namak Halal would be one of those people who justify the killings ( sacrificing) of Shias, Qadiyanis in the name of God.

We should all pray for his mental well being!!

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I was avoiding to give the details, but have no choice except to disclose this information to make my point more clear and open to everybody.

I have been dealing the same Qurbani issue which I am dealing here with you guys with my family back home as well, and they are forcing me to do the Qurbani. I did try to resist but have to gave up due to many reasons, but I found the middle solution. Instead of doing the whole cow ( normally which I do every year), I told them just to spend minimum money, which is one share of cow and spend rest of the money on other cause.

I found a poor man works in factory, who makes 17,000 rupees per month. His son scored 84% marks and get admission in NED Univ ( top engineering school in the country). I heard, he was not going to send his son because of the financial issue. I took the responsibility of his son's fees and also told my brother to buy a laptop for him ( I thought it would be good to have him laptop for his study use). Ok, now you guys tell me, is this the right place to spend the money or should have sacrificed the whole cow and used the the meat for parties and only 1/3rd meat to be given to poor?

This one kid once become an engineer, could help his whole family, he could become the top scientist and serve the country.

PS: I wish, I could have spend all the money on better cause, I still think we should have spend all the money on better cause. Next year, I will try my best to use all my money on better cause.

Thats top stuff brother. You really made a difference in the life of this person who after his education will hopefully make a difference in the lives of others. However this is a seperate issue to Qurbani.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

I know " Qurbani" is sunat-e-Ibrahimi and it was revealed long time ago and I know the whole history how it was started.

But looking at the poverty in our country, hundreds of thousands of people do not eat the food, millions of kids cannot afford to go to school, hundreds of thousands of girls not able to get married due to financial reasons ( some of them are forced for prostitution) .

My question here, instead of sacrificing the animal, why cant people donate the same amount of money to poor people for some better cause. I do not see people or Islam getting benefit from eating unlimited amount of meat for one month and on top of that, we are exposing our young kids to watch the brutal slaughtering of the animal.

If we would spend all the money which we spend on sacrificing the animal, to help the poor people ( in addition to pay Zakat), this could help lot of people and would be more beneficial than the original cause.

I know in the religion, everything is fixed but I personally think there are certain things need to be looked and revised by the Islamic scholars and this one thing need to be looked again.

ha

I didn't want to comment on this thread but ha


it's akin to using the argument why do people celebrate valentines day in pakistan when hundreds of people are starving
Let's ban roses, cake and teddy bears in pakistan for a more prosperous future

 

[zaid65]

ha

I didn't want to comment on this thread but ha


it's akin to using the argument why do people celebrate valentines day in pakistan when hundreds of people are starving
Let's ban roses, cake and teddy bears in pakistan for a more prosperous future

Ha on your comments and relating the Valentine day with Qurbani day.

First of all, where did I support Valentine day, ask those people who celebrate this day and spend money.

If you see me supporting these kind of functions or rituals, stone me ( Namak Halal's language).

 

[asif9138]

I was avoiding to give the details, but have no choice except to disclose this information to make my point more clear and open to everybody.

I have been dealing the same Qurbani issue which I am dealing here with you guys with my family back home as well, and they are forcing me to do the Qurbani. I did try to resist but have to gave up due to many reasons, but I found the middle solution. Instead of doing the whole cow ( normally which I do every year), I told them just to spend minimum money, which is one share of cow and spend rest of the money on other cause.

I found a poor man works in factory, who makes 17,000 rupees per month. His son scored 84% marks and get admission in NED Univ ( top engineering school in the country). I heard, he was not going to send his son because of the financial issue. I took the responsibility of his son's fees and also told my brother to buy a laptop for him ( I thought it would be good to have him laptop for his study use). Ok, now you guys tell me, is this the right place to spend the money or should have sacrificed the whole cow and used the the meat for parties and only 1/3rd meat to be given to poor?

This one kid once become an engineer, could help his whole family, he could become the top scientist and serve the country.

PS: I wish, I could have spend all the money on better cause, I still think we should have spend all the money on better cause. Next year, I will try my best to use all my money on better cause.

what do you think Qurbani is bad cause????

there is hadis that if you have money to afford to do qurbani and you do not it, then you should not come close to our prayer place!

Zaid please read these!

The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said:


1. Whoever made a sacrifice with all sincerity, the act of sacrifice will protect him from hell-fire"

(narrated by Tabrani)


2. The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) has said: “There is no deed that Allah s.w.t. loves most during Eid ul Adha other than the slaughter of a sacrificial animal. The sacrificial animal will appear during the day of judgement with it’s horns, hair and nails as witness to the deed in the name of Allah. The blood of the sacrificed animal is placed near Allah s.w.t. before it flows to the earth. Glad tidings to those who sacrifice”.

(Meanings of the Hadith from Tirmidzi, Ibn Majah & Hakim)


3. According to Tirmizi Shareef and Sunan Ibn Majah, Hazrat Ayesha (radi Allahu anha) stated that Rasool-ul-lah (PBUH) said, "The son of Adam does not do any action on the day of Qurbani which is more pleasing to Allah than the sacrifice of animals; and he will come on the day of Qiyamah with it's hairs, horns and hooves (for reward); and the blood (of the sacrificed animal) certainly reaches Allah before it falls down to the ground. So make yourselves purified therewith."

4. In another Hadith related in Sunan Ibn Majah, Zaid bin Arqam reported that the companions of Rasool-ul-lah (PBUH) asked, "Oh! Messenger of Allah, what is this sacrifice?"
They said, "What is for us therein, O! Messenger of Allah?"
He said, "There is one reward for every hair."
They said, "For wool, O! Messenger of Allah?"
He said, "There is one reward for every strand of wool!"


5. There is a tradition related from Hazrat Abu Hurairah that Rasool-ul-lah said that the person who has the means of performing Qurbani but does not do so should not even come NEAR our EIDGAH (place of Eid Namaaz).

 

[UP]

I agree with Zaid.

I would donate full meat rather than 1/3 off it to most needy ones. Fortunate ones like us are in no need for extra meat because I'm pretty sure most of us can afford the year round of tasty food. I don't understand the theory of donating qurbaani meat to people who are in stable financial situations.

And donating money is a long term benefit to people.

 

[asif9138]

I agree with Zaid.

I would donate full meat rather than 1/3 off it to most needy ones. Fortunate ones like us are in no need for extra meat because I'm pretty sure most of us can afford the year round of tasty food. I don't understand the theory of donating qurbaani meat to people who are in stable financial situations.

And donating money is a long term benefit to people.

yes i agree but not the qurbani money to can donate!

 

[Warfare]

There's no room to question, let alone change orthodox rules in religion. Whatever your religion commands you to do, you do or else be punished.

 

[zaid65]

So here are the numbers I found on the TV channel.

Pakistani people spend 97 billion rupees on Qurbani this year. The total budget of Punjab Govt for health and education is 100 billion. So we have spend close to the same amount of money on Qurbani which were used on 67% population for the health and education by the state.

You dont have to be genius to figure out what could have better purpose of this money. Oh wait, we care more about our rewards points than helping the poor and needy one in the country..

 

[zaid65]

I agree with Zaid.

I would donate full meat rather than 1/3 off it to most needy ones. Fortunate ones like us are in no need for extra meat because I'm pretty sure most of us can afford the year round of tasty food. I don't understand the theory of donating qurbaani meat to people who are in stable financial situations.

And donating money is a long term benefit to people.

This is why I personally think that the concept of Qurbani in the current world and especially for the current state of Muslim world is flawed and money should be used for better purpose ( instead of for the BBQ parties for the family and friends).

 

[zaid65]

There's no room to question, let alone change orthodox rules in religion. Whatever your religion commands you to do, you do or else be punished.

First I would be worried about the injustice I have done to poor people, all the corruption I have done to make illegal money, not able to follow the basic rules of humanity, not able to perform my duties with honesty ( spending time on internet while at work), ...than I would be worried about not praying 5 times, not able to follow the other basic principals of Islam, ..lastly I would be worried about Qurbani..


Keep in mind, people who are spending 5-10 hundred thousands to buy the expensive animals for sacrifice are not the one who made their money through Halal means, most of them do not pray 5 times, ..so what is the point of such Qurbani?

 

[Warfare]

First I would be worried about the injustice I have done to poor people, all the corruption I have done to make illegal money, not able to follow the basic rules of humanity, not able to perform my duties with honesty ( spending time on internet while at work), ...than I would be worried about not praying 5 times, not able to follow the other basic principals of Islam, ..lastly I would be worried about Qurbani..


Keep in mind, people who are spending 5-10 hundred thousands to buy the expensive animals for sacrifice are not the one who made their money through Halal means, most of them do not pray 5 times, ..so what is the point of such Qurbani?

I agree with the point you make. What I was trying to say is that you must do whatever your religion tells you to or God would punish you in this life or the next. Of course, I don't agree with this.

Imo, theres little point to Qurbani. It's a religious ritual commemorating the supposed actions of a Prophet a few thousand years ago and like most rituals, it's pretty baseless and hardly benefits anyone imo.

 

[Radiance Of Australis]

zaid,

I believe you are thinking too much into it. You are also making it sound like apart from Zakah and Zibah, we cannot give anything else to the poor. You can. You can give XXXXX amount of Sadaqah if you want. People DO give money to charity. They DO give Zakaat.

Also, this whole concept of 'revising' religion is completely wrong. I'm sorry, this is a basic command of Allah. We cannot change or revise it. If someone doesn't like it, then they should not follow it But atleast don't go around dissing and trying to change which strictly cannot be changed.

This is bid'ah. You are free to invest in lesser number of animals for sacrifice (or not sacrifice a massive cow) just so that you have more money remaining to give as Sadaqah but you cannot abandon this practice fully and justify it with a religious point of view at the same time

Also, good on you for placing humanity first (ie, being honest, not corrupt, doing no injustice) and then following the commands in Islam. Forgetting that there are Ayahs and laws in Islam that preach the exact same thing. So yeah...

Not dissing you. Just stating the facts. Apologies if I sound rude.

 

[zaid65]

I believe you are thinking too much into it. You are also making it sound like apart from Zakah and Zibah, we cannot give anything else to the poor. You can. You can give XXXXX amount of Sadaqah if you want. People DO give money to charity. They DO give Zakaat.

Mere bhai, if people would have spending the right amount of Zakat, Sadqa and give donations to poor people, the issue would not have been discussed. As you know majority of the people are not well off or middle class, my point is , instead of using the Qurbani amount, same amount can be used for better purpose, which I have explained several times.

I dont see any logic and reasons served with this command with this time age age.

 

[Radiance Of Australis]

Mere behen, if people would have spending the right amount of Zakat, Sadqa and give donations to poor people, the issue would not have been discussed. As you know majority of the people are not well off or middle class, my point is , instead of using the Qurbani amount, same amount can be used for better purpose, which I have explained several times.

I dont see any logic and reasons served with this command with this time age age.

Bold 1 - corrected

Bold 2- Well, then, why didn't you say so before. So you don't practice religion?

Anyways, I don't get why you want to replace Qurbani altogether?

Actually, why bring religion into this at all? If people do not offer charity, why place religion to blame? Islam tells you to give excess amount of charity over your own useless spending AS WELL AS Zakah AS WELL AS Qurbani.

If the people are at fault by not properly following the religion, ie, not giving Sadaqah or Zakah, what is the logic in trying to 'change' the RELIGIOUS PRACTICE? It's almost as you have accepted the notion of people keeping away from charity and are now trying to change religion to suit the situation.

 

[zaid65]

Actually, why bring religion into this at all? If people do not offer charity, why place religion to blame? Islam tells you to give excess amount of charity over your own useless spending AS WELL AS Zakah AS WELL AS Qurbani.

If you are trying to argue what Islam tells you or this has to be done exact the same way than there is no discussion and no argument. But my mind is not willing to accept the logic of Qurbani where people spends billions to sacrifice the animals as rituals ( than have BBQ parties) and poor people are starving, people cannot go to school, ..we are spending billions on rituals as practice of Islam without seeing any proper benefit.

For one minute, you pretend that I am a non Muslim and try to sell the concept of Qurbani to me by knowing the amount of hunger, poverty, health related issues in the country, poor education and you are telling me we have to spend billions because God has ordered us to sacrifice with his name and after the sacrifice, we have to give only 1/3rd meat to poor and rest we can keep to our refrigerators or have BBQ parties.

 

[UP]

If you are trying to argue what Islam tells you or this has to be done exact the same way than there is no discussion and no argument. But my mind is not willing to accept the logic of Qurbani where people spends billions to sacrifice the animals as rituals ( than have BBQ parties) and poor people are starving, people cannot go to school, ..we are spending billions on rituals as practice of Islam without seeing any proper benefit.

I'm personally not against this ritual. The money people spend benefits poor owners in the end (in third world countries).

As we both agree that the meat should be strictly donated to the most needy ones.

 

[UP]

There's no room to question, let alone change orthodox rules in religion. Whatever your religion commands you to do, you do or else be punished.

That thought resembles dictatorship.

 

[zaid65]

I'm personally not against this ritual. The money people spend benefits poor owners in the end (in third world countries).

As we both agree that the meat should be strictly donated to the most needy ones.

My argument is very simple, is 3 days of meat is more important than 30 days of food in the house ( since meat is very expensive and luxury item). I would donate the same money for 30 day food in the poor person' s house vs 3 days worth of meat.

 

[zaid65]

That thought resembles dictatorship.

This is why majority of the Muslims are living under the dictators rule and places where there is democracy, the system is almost broken up and rulers are worst than dictators and people have accepted them.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Quote:
Originally Posted by UP
That thought resembles dictatorship.
This is why majority of the Muslims are living under the dictators rule and places where there is democracy, the system is almost broken up and rulers are worst than dictators and people have accepted them.

ha

''Muslims are honestly wishing each other "Eid Mubarak" or whatever. Mubarak is a terrorist leader of Egypt. This is why I hate muslims;''

 

[UP]

My argument is very simple, is 3 days of meat is more important than 30 days of food in the house ( since meat is very expensive and luxury item). I would donate the same money for 30 day food in the poor person' s house vs 3 days worth of meat.

I agree with your views.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

My argument is very simple, is 3 days of meat is more important than 30 days of food in the house ( since meat is very expensive and luxury item). I would donate the same money for 30 day food in the poor person' s house vs 3 days worth of meat.

lets just starve the farmers and stiffle any kind of growth

alot of money comes into pakistan on qurbani appeals and people sending money to families but of course it would be better if this money was sent to really poor people like in the horn of africa because it would be much more meaningful there and could feed 100 people rather than just ten in pakistan

why not just swap the cows for some magic beans and go and get golden harps while we're at it

 

[BHM :D]

I agree with the point you make. What I was trying to say is that you must do whatever your religion tells you to or God would punish you in this life or the next. Of course, I don't agree with this.

Imo, theres little point to Qurbani. It's a religious ritual commemorating the supposed actions of a Prophet a few thousand years ago and like most rituals, it's pretty baseless and hardly benefits anyone imo.

So basically we should not celebrate Eid? Or partake in any other religious ritual? Is that what you are trying to say?

 

[Mamoon]

Qurbani (slaughter) - Farz or sunnah?

So whats your take on this.

Many people say its farz, others think its a sunnah and not necessary while some believe its highly recommended.

Evidence either way would be great.

 

[in_cutter]

As far as I am aware, it is not Fard but Wajib (highly recommended).

 

[Mamoon]

Like I said in this thread before, I don't buy this bloodshed thing. Nobody cares all year long but suddenly this mass killing becomes a problem.

 

[coca-cola]

So I have taliban mentality just because I oppose ur idiotic theroy. You either seek attention or are an idiot of first degree who thinks innovation in islam is a timely neccesity. Basically islam is out dated and needs to be revitalized. Thanks much sir but keep your idotic theories to urself.

Can you address whether or not children should see it?

 

[kamz]

Money is the basic requirement to live in this world.

My point is, do not follow the religion or try do good deeds for the rewards, try to do it as your responsibility and duty ( instead of for greed of rewards).

bari pyaari baat ki hai aapne.

jo naik kaam karo, Allah ki raza ke liye hona chaiye, jannat ke liye nahi lekin jo god deeds jannat ke liye kar raha hai woh bhi sahih hai as naik kaam to kar raha hai at least lekin us se behter shaks woh hai jo sirf Allah ki raza ke liye kar raha hai


kyunke saari naikyan bhi leyjaao to iski koi guarantee nahi ke jannat miljaayegi, unless Allah ka rahem na ho.

Tum makhlooq pe rahem karo mein tujhpe rahem karoonga

 

[chacha kashmiri]

i don't understand why muslims pray for

You can easily go on treadmills instead nowadays, i don't get the point

 

[DeadlyVenom]

In the UK, in areas where there are high concentrations of Pakistani muslims, one finds pockets of groups whereby nearly every household does Qurbani, and then goes around their neghbours, families, and friends giving them portions of the meat.
They, of course, in all likelihood have also done Qurbani and, in turn give their families, neighbours and friends portions of the meat including those who are doing the same.

Result?
Nearly every household, taking into account the meat they kept back from their own Qurbani plus the meat they received from their neighbours, families and friends, ends up having far, far more meat than they can reasonably eat or store in their fridges and freezers at home. I'll leave you to guess the rest.

Interesting point. I wonder how the early Muslims overcame this issue given that they were all pretty much related/linked to each other.

Our family basically decides yearly who is going to do a home Qurbani and everyone else does one abroad. The meat in the uk we distribute to student types who are generally poor (overseas ones from Ind/Pak/Bang, give some to the other family house and some for their own house. We have quite a small family so this works quite well and so we arent all given meat to each other and avoid the scenario you described.

 

[Spidy201]

I never understood the idea of qurbani by muslims. Qurbani/sacrifice means giving aways something yours, an animals life is 'somthing yours'?. How about cutting your own hand and feeding it to the poor kids that will be sacrifice in true sense.

No one asks an animal does it wants to be killed. And that too halal i.e in the name of god. A serious question, from gods point of view human beings life is more important than life of other animals? If yes then why?
I dont kill animals in name of god does that mean god will punish me in hell fire?

 

[Palti_hit]

If the only aim of killing animals on Eid in is sacrificing your near and
dear ones then we must spare those
animals and sacrifice our gadgets like
Smart Phones, Tablets etc.
If you feel terrified just by thinking
about losing your gadgets and still
endorse animal killing as sacrifice
then you are hypocritical...

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I never understood the idea of qurbani by muslims. Qurbani/sacrifice means giving aways something yours, an animals life is 'somthing yours'?. How about cutting your own hand and feeding it to the poor kids that will be sacrifice in true sense.

No one asks an animal does it wants to be killed. And that too halal i.e in the name of god. A serious question, from gods point of view human beings life is more important than life of other animals? If yes then why?
I dont kill animals in name of god does that mean god will punish me in hell fire?

Thats one meaning of sacrifice but it can also mean an offering to God.

In Islam animals are created for the service of human beings.

No it doesn't mean God will punish you in the hell fire.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

If the only aim of killing animals on Eid in is sacrificing your near and
dear ones then we must spare those
animals and sacrifice our gadgets like
Smart Phones, Tablets etc.
If you feel terrified just by thinking
about losing your gadgets and still
endorse animal killing as sacrifice
then you are hypocritical...

No thats not the only aim.

 

[PakistanKnight]

Allah has commanded us to do it. Why are you questioning it. I am no Mufti but still that is what we have learned.