Rameez Raja Jr accuses Waqar Younis of racist behaviour

[MenInG]

Ramiz Raja Jr speaking in an interview:

"I was made to feel very unwanted on the tour of Zimbabwe; Whenever a new guys comes to the side, he wishes to play for a long time for the Pakistan team"

"The behaviour by the team management and especially Waqar Younis on that tour was such that I wanted the tour to end soon and for me to go home"

"The attitude towards me was really bad; I have always been a great fan of Waqar Younis - tell me one cricketer who is not his fan"

"He treated me in such a bad way that it used to hurt me and a few times he taunted me, making comments about Karachiwallas saying you Karachiwallas are like this or that"

"Until I had joined the team, I didn't know if there was anything like language racism which exists"

"In my first introduction to the Pakistan team, Waqar asked me if I could understand Punjabi? He said that we usually do team meetings in Punjabi; I told him there is no big deal in it as I understand it"

"There was a time when Sohail khan and I wanted to practice together but Waqar taunted us by saying that this is not the KCCA team so why are you wanting to practicing together?"

 

[CaptainIce]

Not Surprised.

After what he said about Rizwan celebrating against India, he should be blacklisted on the international stage.

A Jahil will always stay a jahil.

 

[Varun]

After what he said about Rizwan celebrating against India, he should be blacklisted on the international stage.

What did he say?

 

[Sunzi]

Oh God are we still thinking about Karachiites and Punjabis - need to be more concerned about Pakistanis. Jesus.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What did he say?

Rizwan wasn't celebrating, he was praying during the drinks break. To which Waqar Younis later said on TV that Rizwan praying “in front of Hindus was very special to him”.

 

[topspin]

As I've said before he's an obnoxious individual so nothing to be surprised about.

As each day passes by, the more I realise how blessed Pakistan were with his absence in the 1992 WC. He brings bad energy and totally loses it when the stakes are high.

ICC and PCB need to boycott Waqar from all cricket related activities including coaching and commentary. I hope Wasim Akram is the one to make this announcement. That would be icing on the cake.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

As I've said before he's an obnoxious individual so nothing to be surprised about.

As each day passes by, the more I realise how blessed Pakistan were with his absence in the 1992 WC. He brings bad energy and totally loses it when the stakes are high.

ICC and PCB need to boycott Waqar from all cricket related activities including coaching and commentary. I hope Wasim Akram is the one to make this announcement. That would be icing on the cake.

Let's not get carried away. He may be a closet racist and clearly was a toxic personality in the dressing room. But that doesn't change the fact that he is one of the greatest bowlers to ever play the game.

And Wasim Akram was no saint either. He was just as much (if not more) of a toxic personality in the dressing room back in the day. And there is plenty of evidence to suggest that he was involved in match-fixing on numerous occasions aswell.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Don't like Waqar as a coach, but really why is it always Karachi cricketers making a hue about it?
Haven't heard people from KPK ever talk about it.

Rameez Raja Jr was never a good enough cricketer for international cricket. Should be thankful he got to don the cap twice. Probably talking about this stuff now to get some attention and maybe he'll open a youtube channel like the other not whiny former cricketers.

If Asad Shafiq, Fawad, Younis, Afridi, Sarfraz etc say something like this happened during their careers then it would carry a lot of weight. But Rameez isn't a reliable name.

If you go and ask Kaneria, Butt, Jamshed, Faisal Iqbal, Tanvir Ahmed, etc they would always say they were treated badly.

Pakistani dressing room till 2010 was known to be a place where seniors ribbed juniors (which was a horrible thing) consistently. It was a toxic environment probably, but it was more of a senior junior thing rather than Karachi walay against the world.

Even Wasim Akram was once saying when Misbah was first called up, he would ask him to bring him bottles etc.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Isn't Ramiz Raja a Punjabi?

 

[boomboomcheema]

Isn't Ramiz Raja a Punjabi?

It's Ramiz Raja Junior.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rameez_Raja_Jr.

 

[Saj]

Isn't Ramiz Raja a Punjabi?

This is Rameez Raja jr

Karachi born batter, aged 34

 

[Abstraction1]

I think its dangerous to post an article like this.

Especially when it is completely random. Surely Waqar should have been approached to allow his response.

Racism has no place in the world. But Pakistan has always been a multi ethnicity set up so this comes across very bizarre.

If Ramiz Jr is telling the truth, I hope he gets some sort of apology

 

[JaDed]

A lot of things Waqar said can be taken out context, the only reason Waqar might not get the benefit of the doubt will be history with almost everyone he played or coached, seems to be a pattern with him that of a Desi uncle(which he is not).

 

[Faiz1978]

Ramiz Raja Jr speaking in an interview:

"I was made to feel very unwanted on the tour of Zimbabwe; Whenever a new guys comes to the side, he wishes to play for a long time for the Pakistan team"

"The behaviour by the team management and especially Waqar Younis on that tour was such that I wanted the tour to end soon and for me to go home"

"The attitude towards me was really bad; I have always been a great fan of Waqar Younis - tell me one cricketer who is not his fan"

"He treated me in such a bad way that it used to hurt me and a few times he taunted me, making comments about Karachiwallas saying you Karachiwallas are like this or that"

"Until I had joined the team, I didn't know if there was anything like language racism which exists"

"In my first introduction to the Pakistan team, Waqar asked me if I could understand Punjabi? He said that we usually do team meetings in Punjabi; I told him there is no big deal in it as I understand it"

"There was a time when Sohail khan and I wanted to practice together but Waqar taunted us by saying that this is not the KCCA team so why are you wanting to practicing together?"

Reality of Pakistan cricket , keep in mind Waqar was captain of team also for good no. of matches so what he must have done with karachites , suffering of Shan Masood is current example reason is just because he is from Karachi.

 

[Bewal Express]

Our humour in professional environments belongs to a byegone age. Our Punjabi humour( and maybe other ethnicities also have the same issues)based around lots of racist comments and sexual innuendos. This doesn't work well in the Professional world

 

[gazza619]

Why do these things come out a million years after the event

 

[JaDed]

Our humour in professional environments belongs to a byegone age. Our Punjabi humour( and maybe other ethnicities also have the same issues)based around lots of racist comments and sexual innuendos. This doesn't work well in the Professional world

Well said.. that’s why I said lot of things can be said out of context, but I have heard old school Punjabis and they weren’t always like that.. it’s Waqar’s generation that seems notorious for it in the name of humor.

 

[topspin]

Let's not get carried away. He may be a closet racist and clearly was a toxic personality in the dressing room. But that doesn't change the fact that he is one of the greatest bowlers to ever play the game.

And Wasim Akram was no saint either. He was just as much (if not more) of a toxic personality in the dressing room back in the day. And there is plenty of evidence to suggest that he was involved in match-fixing on numerous occasions aswell.

I'm well aware of Wasim Akram's past but besides that his leadership and conduct made him a role model.

Waqar Younis actually admitted that he was in the wrong and the very reason why his relationship with Wasim Akram didn't go well during their playing days. He even went on to apologise for his actions.

You may have a preference for obedient men like Misbah and Kane Williamson but Wasim Akram won Pakistan the World Cup and is perhaps Pakistan's greatest ever cricketer (certainly top 2).

 

[Major]

Coming from a guy who got selected only cause he scored one 90 runs in a match and than ended up failing against mighty zimbabwe.

As everyone is bashing Waqar Younis, this guy also joins the bandwagon to blame someone for his own pathetic career as international player.

Punjabi is mostly spoken in Pakistan, it is spoken even more than Urdu. I dont understand why he is making a fuss if Waqar asked him if he understood punjabi or not. It is what it is, Punjabi is spoken more around here......

As usual, players from Karachi will find an excuse.

I have seen a trend here. Players who failed at international level or the trouble makers, have a habit of placing the blame on waqar younis. They join the bandwagon and put their career blame on him.

Ahmad shezad, unar akmal, zulqarnain, tanveer ahmad, rameez raja jr, akhtar and even afridi aswell.

The karachi player will use the karachi region made up excuse, while others will use excuse of waqar being not happy with them. Each has an excuse ready that suits them.

 

[Kroll]

It's one side of the story, has Waqar responded to these accusations and the context surrounding it?

Which interview was this and with who? Until then, its only a he said, she said, they said type dispute.

 

[Savak]

There is a very well documented basis to believe that the root cause of Waqars issues are dehatiness. Please don't be fooled by that British accent. He has very well documented inter personal clashes and conflicts with everyone. This anecdote by ramiz jr does not surprise me one bit. He has nothing to gain by putting this out there.

 

[PakLFC]

Here I was thinking Karachiwala's are Pakistanis. I am sorry that due to Waqar's ignorance we lost such a brilliant batsman in the making!

 

[MenInG]

It's one side of the story, has Waqar responded to these accusations and the context surrounding it?

Which interview was this and with who? Until then, its only a he said, she said, they said type dispute.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDWb6_KdX7Q

This is the link

 

[moghul]

Ramiz Raja Jr speaking in an interview:

"I was made to feel very unwanted on the tour of Zimbabwe; Whenever a new guys comes to the side, he wishes to play for a long time for the Pakistan team"

"The behaviour by the team management and especially Waqar Younis on that tour was such that I wanted the tour to end soon and for me to go home"

"The attitude towards me was really bad; I have always been a great fan of Waqar Younis - tell me one cricketer who is not his fan"

"He treated me in such a bad way that it used to hurt me and a few times he taunted me, making comments about Karachiwallas saying you Karachiwallas are like this or that"

"Until I had joined the team, I didn't know if there was anything like language racism which exists"

"In my first introduction to the Pakistan team, Waqar asked me if I could understand Punjabi? He said that we usually do team meetings in Punjabi; I told him there is no big deal in it as I understand it"

"There was a time when Sohail khan and I wanted to practice together but Waqar taunted us by saying that this is not the KCCA team so why are you wanting to practicing together?"

Things like this happen all the time and everywhere, a rooky has be thick skinned to be successful, no one is saint.

 

[Shafi]

Rubbish player wants to get some attentions to get something. This guy should consider himself lucky to represent national team. What Waqar said is right. He cannot just choose a player to practice in his own way. He can do this in local league match preparation.

 

[Titan24]

If true, shocking stuff. You would expect someone like Waqar to be a mature individual after so much exposure around the world as cricketer, commentator and coach but, it does not seem to be the case.

I hope there is a formal whistle blowing and grievance mechanism in PCB as such things should have been reported, should be allowed anonymously as well and then investigated.

Hammad Azam, Umar Akmal, Amir, Shehzad, Hafeez, Younis etc also have had issues with Waqar and they were from other regions. So it looks like Waqar have had issues with quite a few players over the years.

 

[amax]

Well said.. that’s why I said lot of things can be said out of context, but I have heard old school Punjabis and they weren’t always like that.. it’s Waqar’s generation that seems notorious for it in the name of humor.

I agree , this looks like more of a case of crude Punjabi humour , than blatant racism , lots of humour that is considered normal in Punajbi setting will be consider inappropriate in modern Politically correct , professional seetings

 

[Faiz1978]

Here I was thinking Karachiwala's are Pakistanis. I am sorry that due to Waqar's ignorance we lost such a brilliant batsman in the making!

Shan Masood

 

[Deewana Mastana]

You've just got to open up his stats to see he was even lucky enough to have a career in cricket being a batsman has awful stats yet got picked somehow in 2011 and ended up playing 2 games.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I'm well aware of Wasim Akram's past but besides that his leadership and conduct made him a role model.

Waqar Younis actually admitted that he was in the wrong and the very reason why his relationship with Wasim Akram didn't go well during their playing days. He even went on to apologise for his actions.

You may have a preference for obedient men like Misbah and Kane Williamson but Wasim Akram won Pakistan the World Cup and is perhaps Pakistan's greatest ever cricketer (certainly top 2).

Hahaha what? That's some nice whitewashing of history on your part. I urge you to read Osman Samiuddin's Unquiet Ones to get a much more complete picture of Wasim's captaincy. He was the farthest thing from a role model and his tenure was rife with politicking and constantly toxic dressing room environment, something that was very much instigated by him. And don't even get me started on the match-fixing or the getting arrested on a Jamaican beach in possession of dope, while he was captain...yeah that's a role model for you alright.

I don't know what Waqar statement you are alluding to. But you clearly have trouble reading between the lines. Whenever Wasim and Waqar talk about their playing days they always laugh it off as a competitive rivalry. Probably because they don't want to re-open the can of worms that well-researched books on Pakistan cricket like Unquiet Ones and Wounded Tiger have already talked about in great detail.

And yeah I do prefer Misbah over someone like Wasim. Because Misbah, despite being tasked with captaining a mediocre side that had just come out of its darkest hour, actually achieved something. Whereas Wasim, despite captaining an elite level side was only successful in driving more wedges between the players all while achieving practically nothing of note as captain.

There's no denying that Wasim Akram is the greatest cricketer this country ever produced. But that doesn't excuse the downright rotten behavior that he indulged in regularly during his playing days. Stuff that has been well-documented if you actually bother to read on it, instead of resorting to your prim-rosed, nostalgic recollection of that time.

 

[topspin]

Hahaha what? That's some nice whitewashing of history on your part. I urge you to read Osman Samiuddin's Unquiet Ones to get a much more complete picture of Wasim's captaincy. He was the farthest thing from a role model and his tenure was rife with politicking and constantly toxic dressing room environment, something that was very much instigated by him. And don't even get me started on the match-fixing or the getting arrested on a Jamaican beach in possession of dope, while he was captain...yeah that's a role model for you alright.

I don't know what Waqar statement you are alluding to. But you clearly have trouble reading between the lines. Whenever Wasim and Waqar talk about their playing days they always laugh it off as a competitive rivalry. Probably because they don't want to re-open the can of worms that well-researched books on Pakistan cricket like Unquiet Ones and Wounded Tiger have already talked about in great detail.

And yeah I do prefer Misbah over someone like Wasim. Because Misbah, despite being tasked with captaining a mediocre side that had just come out of its darkest hour, actually achieved something. Whereas Wasim, despite captaining an elite level side was only successful in driving more wedges between the players all while achieving practically nothing of note as captain.

There's no denying that Wasim Akram is the greatest cricketer this country ever produced. But that doesn't excuse the downright rotten behavior that he indulged in regularly during his playing days. Stuff that has been well-documented if you actually bother to read on it, instead of resorting to your prim-rosed, nostalgic recollection of that time.

Sorry what did he achieve other than being India's 12th man in the 2007 WT20 final and 2011 SF in Mohali?

 

[Markhor]

It's no secret that junior players in the past have been treated appallingly in a Pakistan setup where age based hierachies are so prevalent.

So stories like this are unsurprising, and Waqar's poor man management skills are well docunented.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Sorry what did he achieve other than being India's 12th man in the 2007 WT20 final and 2011 SF in Mohali?

You mean besides, the No.1 test ranking, an undefeated run as captain in Pakistan's adopted home (which included maulings of (Australia and England), a drawn series in England, a maiden ODI series win in South Africa, an ODI series win in India, and zero controversies?

Yeah I'd take that over and openly abusing players on the field, getting caught in Jamaica with drugs, presiding over a player's rebellion in '94 (what a role model!), match-fixing and pulling out of the 1996 World Cup QF on dubious reasons.

Oh and remind me again, what did Wasim achieve as captain besides beating a mediocre England side in England and drawing that test series in India? He doesn't even have half as many test wins as Misbah.

Misbah's series wins as captain (11) uptill his retirement were the most ever by an Asian captain. And unless Kohli overtook him since then, the record likely still stands.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Sorry what did he achieve other than being India's 12th man in the 2007 WT20 final and 2011 SF in Mohali?

Numerically, Misbah's series wins as captain are comparable to Wasim's actual wins as captain.

 

[masterblaster]

So if you are rubbish, you are not allowed to speak up again racism?

 

[Snowflake]

This kid stands to gain nothing from this.

What he's saying about Waqar is 100% believable given Waqar's extremely backwards mentality. Waqar has been exposed as such a petty and bitter individual, by so many now, that this isn't surprising anymore.

That bit about Sohail Khan cannot be made up.

Unbelievable how some folks here are blaming this kid saying he dragged regional into it

 

[Slim]

Always been of the opinion that Waqar Younis needs to be banned from taking any position in Pakistan cricket alongwith Misbah.

 

[Major]

So if you are rubbish, you are not allowed to speak up again racism?

Karachi or karachite is not a race for gods sake

 

[topspin]

You mean besides, the No.1 test ranking, an undefeated run as captain in Pakistan's adopted home (which included maulings of (Australia and England), a drawn series in England, a maiden ODI series win in South Africa, an ODI series win in India, and zero controversies?

Yeah I'd take that over and openly abusing players on the field, getting caught in Jamaica with drugs, presiding over a player's rebellion in '94 (what a role model!), match-fixing and pulling out of the 1996 World Cup QF on dubious reasons.

Oh and remind me again, what did Wasim achieve as captain besides beating a mediocre England side in England and drawing that test series in India? He doesn't even have half as many test wins as Misbah.

Misbah's series wins as captain (11) uptill his retirement were the most ever by an Asian captain. And unless Kohli overtook him since then, the record likely still stands.

No problem if you're a Misbah fan but slagging Wasim off and saying you'd take Misbah over him is beyond a joke.

I can't say I'm surprised as you continue to maintain that "Joe Root isn't fit tie Kane Williamson's shoelaces".

But I get it, you have a soft spot for obedient men like Misbah and Kane.

 

[topspin]

Always been of the opinion that Waqar Younis needs to be banned from taking any position in Pakistan cricket alongwith Misbah.

Couldn't agree more. ICC and PCB need to collaborate and hand out this ban to him.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

No problem if you're a Misbah fan but slagging Wasim off and saying you'd take Misbah over him is beyond a joke.

I can't say I'm surprised as you continue to maintain that "Joe Root isn't fit tie Kane Williamson's shoelaces".

But I get it, you have a soft spot for obedient men like Misbah and Kane.

Typical coward move. You can't argue based on the argument at hand so you decided to bring in a completely unrelated topic into the debate.

This might be a bitter pill for you to swallow but Wasim Akram was one of the biggest reasons the Pakistan side of the 90s never reached the heights it should have reached. Everything I have said about him is a matter of fact and has been well-documented by the news and by cricket writers who know more about cricket than me or you. You not knowing any of this about your "role model" is on you.

And considering how you haven't responded to any of the concrete facts I mentioned I'm gonna take it that you don't have much to say besides how much you love Wsim Akram.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Waqar isnt the best in communication and man management but this seems another accusation from a Pak player who wasnt good enough to make it.

Besides those arent racist words, just normal banta in Pakistan cricket.

 

[PakLFC]

Shan Masood

What about him?

 

[Stewie]

I didnt realize calling someone from Karachi a Karachiwala is racist behavior. Arent we all the same race?

Different ethnicity, maybe, but hard to believe we still gripe about that stuff today.

 

[Savak]

I didnt realize calling someone from Karachi a Karachiwala is racist behavior. Arent we all the same race?

Different ethnicity, maybe, but hard to believe we still gripe about that stuff today.

Hmm, maybe the intent behind the name calling matters? If it is used to mock and insult someone from Karachi then serious action needs to be taken.

 

[topspin]

Typical coward move. You can't argue based on the argument at hand so you decided to bring in a completely unrelated topic into the debate.

This might be a bitter pill for you to swallow but Wasim Akram was one of the biggest reasons the Pakistan side of the 90s never reached the heights it should have reached. Everything I have said about him is a matter of fact and has been well-documented by the news and by cricket writers who know more about cricket than me or you. You not knowing any of this about your "role model" is on you.

And considering how you haven't responded to any of the concrete facts I mentioned I'm gonna take it that you don't have much to say besides how much you love Wsim Akram.

Well what do you expect me to say when you come up with your preference for Misbah over Wasim?

Believe me I'm as a big of cricket nerd as anyone on here, I know about Wasim's past. Yes he smoked dope, it was 90s, the era of Tupac and Biggie. What do you expect?

Match fixing was rife throughout this decade from Asian and non-Asian sides.

That doesn't excuse what Wasim did but we should more than grateful for what he accomplished for Pakistan cricket.

Obedient men might be your type but God help Pakistan fans, if we're gonna curse Wasim and hope for Misbahs to play for Pakistan. This is all beyond belief really.

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

I didnt realize calling someone from Karachi a Karachiwala is racist behavior. Arent we all the same race?

Different ethnicity, maybe, but hard to believe we still gripe about that stuff today.

Either you are incredibly naive or willfully acting ignorant due to having similar views.

The term itself isn’t racist / regionalist but the way it’s delivered mattered and is clearly to ‘other’ a person from Karachi.

The comment about Sohail Khan and KCCA is probably the most damning of all and shows a deep seated bias.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Well what do you expect me to say when you come up with your preference for Misbah over Wasim?

Believe me I'm as a big of cricket nerd as anyone on here, I know about Wasim's past. Yes he smoked dope, it was 90s, the era of Tupac and Biggie. What do you expect?

Match fixing was rife throughout this decade from Asian and non-Asian sides.

That doesn't excuse what Wasim did but we should more than grateful for what he accomplished for Pakistan cricket.

Obedient men might be your type but God help Pakistan fans, if we're gonna curse Wasim and hope for Misbahs to play for Pakistan. This is all beyond belief really.

That's a pathetic excuse. Everyone was doing match-fixing, so its okay that he did it too. And I could care less if he smokes dope. But the fact that he got caught on tour, while he was captain was a damning indictment of him as captain, and a disgraceful episode for Pakistan cricket.

We are plenty grateful for what he achieved. Practically everyone admits that he was the greatest cricketer Pakistan ever produced. But he was also a rotten, characterless individual and a mediocre captain under whose captaincy didn't achieve much of anything. Eventhough the sides he captained were some of the greatest in Pakistan's cricketing history.

Misbah on the other hand, took an average and largely mediocre side and took them to the zenith of the test rankings. He was a natural leader who not only commanded respect but also knew how to keep everyone in check. As far as the mount rushmore of great Pakistani captains goes there are only three: Kardar, Imran and Misbah. No one else is even in the conversation with these three.

And as far as my opinion of Misbah is concerned, its not even a minority view. Barring a small bubble of mentally immature people who have never been able to mentally move past the 2011 World Cup semi-final, most rational Pakistani fans recognize everything Misbah has accomplished.

 

[Stewie]

Either you are incredibly naive or willfully acting ignorant due to having similar views.

The term itself isn’t racist / regionalist but the way it’s delivered mattered and is clearly to ‘other’ a person from Karachi.

The comment about Sohail Khan and KCCA is probably the most damning of all and shows a deep seated bias.

You obviously have not lived in Pakistan much. It is a common theme to make jokes like that there. I went to school with a bunch of kids in boarding from different areas of Punjab. Kids from Faisalabad got picked on the same way. Does that make it racist/regionalist/ethnic/malicious?
In Lahore, we will pick on guys based on where they lived within Lahore. Does that make it bad too? Thats just the "culture" of "jugatbaazi" and "seniors" indulge in this behavior all too often. If you dont take it like man and buckle in and start crying or complaining, you are considered weak. Blame it on the overall culture, another one of the many evils of Pakistan.

When I came to the US, a bunch of my room mates were from Karachi and I was nicknamed "Chaudhry" when I am not a Chaudhry from anywhere. I still happen to be friends with some of them after so many years.

Let us not turn this into something more than what it really is. People living in Pakistan know exactly what this is.

 

[topspin]

That's a pathetic excuse. Everyone was doing match-fixing, so its okay that he did it too. And I could care less if he smokes dope. But the fact that he got caught on tour, while he was captain was a damning indictment of him as captain, and a disgraceful episode for Pakistan cricket.

We are plenty grateful for what he achieved. Practically everyone admits that he was the greatest cricketer Pakistan ever produced. But he was also a rotten, characterless individual and a mediocre captain under whose captaincy didn't achieve much of anything. Eventhough the sides he captained were some of the greatest in Pakistan's cricketing history.

Misbah on the other hand, took an average and largely mediocre side and took them to the zenith of the test rankings. He was a natural leader who not only commanded respect but also knew how to keep everyone in check. As far as the mount rushmore of great Pakistani captains goes there are only three: Kardar, Imran and Misbah. No one else is even in the conversation with these three.

And as far as my opinion of Misbah is concerned, its not even a minority view. Barring a small bubble of mentally immature people who have never been able to mentally move past the 2011 World Cup semi-final, most rational Pakistani fans recognize everything Misbah has accomplished.

This couldn't be any further from the truth.

Out of everyone who voted, 80% of users were against his appointment as Head Coach/Selector because they didn't want his negative and defensive brand of cricket. He destroyed our white ball cricket and this can be epitomised by how Pakistan fared in the 2013 and 2017 Champions Trophy tournaments, which were both held in England. In 2013, Misbah's team went out of the group stages after disgracefully losing every game. 4 years later, a very medicore captain in Sarfraz managed to win it.

 

[topspin]

That's a pathetic excuse. Everyone was doing match-fixing, so its okay that he did it too. And I could care less if he smokes dope. But the fact that he got caught on tour, while he was captain was a damning indictment of him as captain, and a disgraceful episode for Pakistan cricket.

We are plenty grateful for what he achieved. Practically everyone admits that he was the greatest cricketer Pakistan ever produced. But he was also a rotten, characterless individual and a mediocre captain under whose captaincy didn't achieve much of anything. Eventhough the sides he captained were some of the greatest in Pakistan's cricketing history.

Misbah on the other hand, took an average and largely mediocre side and took them to the zenith of the test rankings. He was a natural leader who not only commanded respect but also knew how to keep everyone in check. As far as the mount rushmore of great Pakistani captains goes there are only three: Kardar, Imran and Misbah. No one else is even in the conversation with these three.

And as far as my opinion of Misbah is concerned, its not even a minority view. Barring a small bubble of mentally immature people who have never been able to mentally move past the 2011 World Cup semi-final, most rational Pakistani fans recognize everything Misbah has accomplished.

Today has been a bad day for you so I'll excuse your personal remarks. Joe Root has once again put eggs on your face after another incredible match winning ton. So much for him "not being fit to tie Kane Williamson's shoe laces".

Back to the topic, in reference to what I've put in bold, if you really don't understand why a significant number of Pakistan fans won't get over his 2011 WC knock then either you're a blind follower of his and/or you're deficient in cricket knowledge.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

This couldn't be any further from the truth.

Out of everyone who voted, 80% of users were against his appointment as Head Coach/Selector because they didn't want his negative and defensive brand of cricket. He destroyed our white ball cricket and this can be epitomised by how Pakistan fared in the 2013 and 2017 Champions Trophy tournaments, which were both held in England. In 2013, Misbah's team went out of the group stages after disgracefully losing every game. 4 years later, a very medicore captain in Sarfraz managed to win it.

Yeah because before him our white-ball cricket was thriving right?

I'm not gonna bother arguing this idiotic argument with you any longer. You have provided zero facts regarding why Wasim was a good captain. I have provided numerous reasons why Misbah was. Its obvious that you are only interested in making off-topic, off handed remarks so you might as well buzz off.

 

[topspin]

Yeah because before him our white-ball cricket was thriving right?

I'm not gonna bother arguing this idiotic argument with you any longer. You have provided zero facts regarding why Wasim was a good captain. I have provided numerous reasons why Misbah was. Its obvious that you are only interested in making off-topic, off handed remarks so you might as well buzz off.

Wasim Akram was a role model and inspiration for everybody. He didn't have undesirable mannerisms that Waqar possessed and the reason why I'm mentioning him is because I had a very hard time watching lead our side after taking over from Moin Khan. He completely lost the plot against Australia when he decided to bowl beamers at Symonds and he bottled it against India as well.

We won the Asia Cup and reached a World Cup final as well under his leadership.

He was also a progressive captain. Pakistan's white ball cricket was well ahead of its time when you consider how long our batting line-up was (with all the late order hitters in the side).

Under Misbah, we started playing 70s/80s brand of white ball cricket and his ultra defensive
mindset cost us many games. He single handedly destroyed our white ball cricket and set us backwards.

You can't just overlook Pakistan's contrast in fortunes from 2013 CT (under Misbah) and in the next edition of the tournament (under Sarfraz). If you can't hold Misbah accountable for that then you're simply just a blind follower.

 

[cricketAXEpert]

Ramiz Raja Jr speaking in an interview:

"I was made to feel very unwanted on the tour of Zimbabwe; Whenever a new guys comes to the side, he wishes to play for a long time for the Pakistan team"

"The behaviour by the team management and especially Waqar Younis on that tour was such that I wanted the tour to end soon and for me to go home"

"The attitude towards me was really bad; I have always been a great fan of Waqar Younis - tell me one cricketer who is not his fan"

"He treated me in such a bad way that it used to hurt me and a few times he taunted me, making comments about Karachiwallas saying you Karachiwallas are like this or that"

"Until I had joined the team, I didn't know if there was anything like language racism which exists"

"In my first introduction to the Pakistan team, Waqar asked me if I could understand Punjabi? He said that we usually do team meetings in Punjabi; I told him there is no big deal in it as I understand it"

"There was a time when Sohail khan and I wanted to practice together but Waqar taunted us by saying that this is not the KCCA team so why are you wanting to practicing together?"

First of all Karachi-Lahore rivalry is not racism not even close. Waqar asking him if he understood Punjabi is the right thing to do. Being called a Karachiwalla or Lahore wala is same as being called a New Yorker, that is not abuse. Plus Waqar is right 'you don't get to choose who you practice with'.

He sounds like just another washed up, has been cricketer who couldn't make it on the international level and is now blaming others for his failure .

 

[Savak]

First of all Karachi-Lahore rivalry is not racism not even close. Waqar asking him if he understood Punjabi is the right thing to do. Being called a Karachiwalla or Lahore wala is same as being called a New Yorker, that is not abuse. Plus Waqar is right 'you don't get to choose who you practice with'.

He sounds like just another washed up, has been cricketer who couldn't make it on the international level and is now blaming others for his failure .

Any regional or city based rivalry can be classed as discrimination if the context is understood. This is the Pakistani team and Urdu is the national language of Pakistan, this is not the Punjabi team. If remarks are made in a rude, condescending tone then it will be deemed as discrimination. I dare Waqar to behave this way in a western professional organization, i can bet my bottom dollar that he will be shown the door by HR if an employee complains about his behavior.

Hopefully this is the last we will ever get to see of Waqar in any coaching capacity, the serial failure that he is, it is no wonder he can't even get a bowling coach gig in a western team. In an era where his compatriots i.e. Saqlain, Mushtaq Ahmed, Azhar Mahmood have enjoyed coaching gigs with the West Indies, English, New Zealand team, it is very telling this guy can't even get a coaching gig outside the Pakistani team.

 

[Saj]

Rameez is a nice guy, someone who I have interacted with for many years.

My only concern would be why has he waited this long to raise these issues.

 

[mazkhan]

With a first class average of 26 this guy was lucky to be In the intl team

 

[Saj]

Without wanting to defend anyone here, the Karachi media really hated and still do hate Waqar Younis.

The reason for that was that he broke the backbone of the dressing room leaks culture. Players were leaking dressing room information and team selections to Karachi based media.

When Waqar put a stop to that, he became target number one for them.

 

[James]

Without wanting to defend anyone here, the Karachi media really hated and still do hate Waqar Younis.

The reason for that was that he broke the backbone of the dressing room leaks culture. Players were leaking dressing room information and team selections to Karachi based media.

When Waqar put a stop to that, he became target number one for them.

That’s interesting.

 

[Saj]

With a first class average of 26 this guy was lucky to be In the intl team

If I remember correctly he was one of those, did well in one tournament picks.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Without wanting to defend anyone here, the Karachi media really hated and still do hate Waqar Younis.

The reason for that was that he broke the backbone of the dressing room leaks culture. Players were leaking dressing room information and team selections to Karachi based media.

When Waqar put a stop to that, he became target number one for them.

The Karachi Media is a cancer to Pakistan Cricket. They have been planting seeds in the minds of the players from Karachi that they are being mistreated.

Although I do believe there is discrepancy and some cities get more preferences but Lahore and Karachi should not be the ones to play victims here.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

Waqar Younis seems to have problems with almost everyone from his playing days to his coaching stints. Pakistan also started declining massively under his captaincy.

 

[Major]

The Karachi Media is a cancer to Pakistan Cricket. They have been planting seeds in the minds of the players from Karachi that they are being mistreated.

Although I do believe there is discrepancy and some cities get more preferences but Lahore and Karachi should not be the ones to play victims here.

No city gets preference, this is just mumbo jumbo we all were fed growing up. If one is not good enough, just come up with this excuse that someone is getting preference. Its just an excuse we feel better with.

You have to understand the migration and movement of people around here and plus other factors.

Cricket is not an elite or richmans sport. Its a poor man sport in Pakistan. A person who has alot of free time can be able to play cricket. Thus, many cricketers are from kpk as kpk doesnt have that many jobs and not many go to school for education. So alot of them turn to sports.

Now why do more cricketers come out of Punjab? The reason for that is there are more major cities in Punjab. Lahore, Multan, Pindi, Gujranwala, Sialkot.

Parents of many of these players migrate to major cities for economical reasons, thus when a player starts his cricketing career from that major city he gets labelled as a player from Punjab or of of that city but not from where he came from.

Islamabad cricket is full of pathans from kpk. Actual islambadis in islamabad cricket only represent like 10%..

Pindi cricketers are all from outside and mostly from kpk. Alot of people come from kpk to work in the mandis or raja bazar as labor, thus they settle in this city. Many cricketers in pondi have parents that sell vegtable or do labor work in mandi or raja bazar.

Similar way Lahore grts alot of its cricketers from nearby villiages. Bhakkar, sargodah etc, these people shift to the nearby major city.

Sindh has like 1-2 major cities which is why not alot of people would go there to work as its kuch far. The advantage of punjab is that its nearer to their villiages.
[MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] is spot on that the karachi media plays with the mind of these guys because of the leaks that dont come in.

Asad shafiq got a very long rope in odis, more than umar akmal got in tests, but no one discusses that. If there was an actual good player from karachi he would offcourse play.

However i do agree to one thing which is that there could be influence in selection somehwat due to language and from where the captain belongs.

The national team captain will give preference to his guys which is natural in all fields. Misbah keeping asad shafiq, sarfraz kept anwar ali, babar keeps usman qadir.

Language plays a role through socializing. In any field you have to be socializing in that industry to move upwards. Punjabi is the most spoken language in Pakistan. Urdu is spoken by 15 percent while punjabi is spoken by more than 50 percent in the country. We have pashtuns speaking in punjabi now...

Thus, to get selected in the team you need to be well known in the cricket circle and sit and socialize with everyone around.

One thing that i have noticed in Pakistan is that urdu speaking people dont develope the same rapport with punjabi speaking the way punjabi speaker develops with another punjabi speaker. I believe that does play a factor somewhat.

Which is why karachi players who cant speak punjabi arnt able to socialize with the majority players who speak punjabi and that relation and socialization fails. Khurram manzoor not being able to make it was always surprising for me.

Selection isnt done through merit. This is something we have to accept in every industry. You have to make a name for yourself and socialize in that industry.

While cities do get preference, however i do believe that if players from karachi want ro make their odds of selection better than they need to network and socialize better

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

No city gets preference, this is just mumbo jumbo we all were fed growing up. If one is not good enough, just come up with this excuse that someone is getting preference. Its just an excuse we feel better with.

You have to understand the migration and movement of people around here and plus other factors.

Cricket is not an elite or richmans sport. Its a poor man sport in Pakistan. A person who has alot of free time can be able to play cricket. Thus, many cricketers are from kpk as kpk doesnt have that many jobs and not many go to school for education. So alot of them turn to sports.

Now why do more cricketers come out of Punjab? The reason for that is there are more major cities in Punjab. Lahore, Multan, Pindi, Gujranwala, Sialkot.

Parents of many of these players migrate to major cities for economical reasons, thus when a player starts his cricketing career from that major city he gets labelled as a player from Punjab or of of that city but not from where he came from.

Islamabad cricket is full of pathans from kpk. Actual islambadis in islamabad cricket only represent like 10%..

Pindi cricketers are all from outside and mostly from kpk. Alot of people come from kpk to work in the mandis or raja bazar as labor, thus they settle in this city. Many cricketers in pondi have parents that sell vegtable or do labor work in mandi or raja bazar.

Similar way Lahore grts alot of its cricketers from nearby villiages. Bhakkar, sargodah etc, these people shift to the nearby major city.

Sindh has like 1-2 major cities which is why not alot of people would go there to work as its kuch far. The advantage of punjab is that its nearer to their villiages.

[MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] is spot on that the karachi media plays with the mind of these guys because of the leaks that dont come in.

Asad shafiq got a very long rope in odis, more than umar akmal got in tests, but no one discusses that. If there was an actual good player from karachi he would offcourse play.

However i do agree to one thing which is that there could be influence in selection somehwat due to language and from where the captain belongs.

The national team captain will give preference to his guys which is natural in all fields. Misbah keeping asad shafiq, sarfraz kept anwar ali, babar keeps usman qadir.

Language plays a role through socializing. In any field you have to be socializing in that industry to move upwards. Punjabi is the most spoken language in Pakistan. Urdu is spoken by 15 percent while punjabi is spoken by more than 50 percent in the country. We have pashtuns speaking in punjabi now...

Thus, to get selected in the team you need to be well known in the cricket circle and sit and socialize with everyone around.

One thing that i have noticed in Pakistan is that urdu speaking people dont develope the same rapport with punjabi speaking the way punjabi speaker develops with another punjabi speaker. I believe that does play a factor somewhat.

Which is why karachi players who cant speak punjabi arnt able to socialize with the majority players who speak punjabi and that relation and socialization fails. Khurram manzoor not being able to make it was always surprising for me.

Selection isnt done through merit. This is something we have to accept in every industry. You have to make a name for yourself and socialize in that industry.

While cities do get preference, however i do believe that if players from karachi want ro make their odds of selection better than they need to network and socialize better

Urdu is national language of Pakistan, not Punjabi. The onus should be on the Punjabi cricketers to speak Urdu. The language of the dressing room should be Urdu.

 

[Major]

Urdu is national language of Pakistan, not Punjabi. The onus should be on the Punjabi cricketers to speak Urdu. The language of the dressing room should be Urdu.

It doesnt matter what the national language is. Punjabi is not spoken because its forced, its a provincial language just like sindhi and pashto.

When i say only 16% pakistanis speak urdu, that means majority cant speak the language.

Majority of these guys dont go to school, how do you expect them to speak urdu? They speak punjabi only cause its their mother tongue.

People from kpk who are living in punjab had to do this to assimilate and work.

No one is saying that others should be forced to speak punjabi, but they need to socialize and be better at networking as thats what leads to progressing in your field. Or one could just continue complaining for the rest of their life

 

[Saj]

Urdu is national language of Pakistan, not Punjabi. The onus should be on the Punjabi cricketers to speak Urdu. The language of the dressing room should be Urdu.

I think by and large it is.

In fact I have seen Punjabi speaking players asking to do interviews in Urdu rather than Punjabi.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Wasim Akram was a role model and inspiration for everybody. He didn't have undesirable mannerisms that Waqar possessed and the reason why I'm mentioning him is because I had a very hard time watching lead our side after taking over from Moin Khan. He completely lost the plot against Australia when he decided to bowl beamers at Symonds and he bottled it against India as well.

We won the Asia Cup and reached a World Cup final as well under his leadership.

He was also a progressive captain. Pakistan's white ball cricket was well ahead of its time when you consider how long our batting line-up was (with all the late order hitters in the side).

Under Misbah, we started playing 70s/80s brand of white ball cricket and his ultra defensive
mindset cost us many games. He single handedly destroyed our white ball cricket and set us backwards.

You can't just overlook Pakistan's contrast in fortunes from 2013 CT (under Misbah) and in the next edition of the tournament (under Sarfraz). If you can't hold Misbah accountable for that then you're simply just a blind follower.

Undesirable mannerisms like being a (alleged) match-fixer and verbally abusing players on the field you mean? Seems like you have an axe to grind with Waqar, which is why you can't hold your hero to the same standards as him.

You named a grand total of one achievement that Wasim managed as captain. And it was the Asian Test Championship, not the Asia Cup. Reaching the World Cup final is not an achievement. The rest just seem to be your opinions yet again, instead of facts.

This is an utterly ridiculous take. Misbah inherited the same team that Afridi had been captaining. And that team had been mediocre, backward and playing an outdated brand of cricket since long before even Afridi took over. Misbah was by no means a great ODI batter, but in that Pakistani side he was easily the best by a country mile. Because he was the only one who was scoring any runs. Another reason his strike rate suffered was because time and time again he was coming in at 15-3 or 32-3 or 26-3 to put out fires.

That's a really intellectually dishonest way of looking at it. Especially when everyone knows that Pakistan's ODI side reached even newer lows immediately after Misbah retired from ODI cricket.

Pakistan's ODI cricket changed because some good luck combined with Mickey Arthur and Inzamam making some good choices led to guys like Umar Akmal, Ahmed Shahzad, Kamran Akmal being shown the door, and newer players like Fakhar Zaman, Babar Azam, Imam-ul-Haq, Hasan Ali, Shadab Khan being consistent opportunities to establish themselves.

 

[topspin]

Undesirable mannerisms like being a (alleged) match-fixer and verbally abusing players on the field you mean? Seems like you have an axe to grind with Waqar, which is why you can't hold your hero to the same standards as him.

You named a grand total of one achievement that Wasim managed as captain. And it was the Asian Test Championship, not the Asia Cup. Reaching the World Cup final is not an achievement. The rest just seem to be your opinions yet again, instead of facts.

This is an utterly ridiculous take. Misbah inherited the same team that Afridi had been captaining. And that team had been mediocre, backward and playing an outdated brand of cricket since long before even Afridi took over. Misbah was by no means a great ODI batter, but in that Pakistani side he was easily the best by a country mile. Because he was the only one who was scoring any runs. Another reason his strike rate suffered was because time and time again he was coming in at 15-3 or 32-3 or 26-3 to put out fires.

That's a really intellectually dishonest way of looking at it. Especially when everyone knows that Pakistan's ODI side reached even newer lows immediately after Misbah retired from ODI cricket.

Pakistan's ODI cricket changed because some good luck combined with Mickey Arthur and Inzamam making some good choices led to guys like Umar Akmal, Ahmed Shahzad, Kamran Akmal being shown the door, and newer players like Fakhar Zaman, Babar Azam, Imam-ul-Haq, Hasan Ali, Shadab Khan being consistent opportunities to establish themselves.

As mentioned before Wasim was not perfect but to state you would take Misbah over him is beyond going overboard, which is why I've come up with a timeline to detail the issues we've had with your preferred choice:

2011

Mohali: I will never forgive him for this because I know what his intentions were. He wasn't playing for the team, he was playing for his place in the side, so he could muster a few more years in the side.

2013

1. His time was up in tests when Pakistan lost against a very weak Zimbabwe side. If he cared about the best interests of Pakistan cricket, he would have retired, so Fawad Alam could step in as his replacement at number 5.

2. In the 2013 CT, Misbah's Pakistan lost every game to crash out of the group. He should have retired after the Mohali knock but if there was another telling moment it was two years after that. Now contrast this to what Sarfraz achieved in the following edition of the CT, which was held in England. Don't get me wrong, I despise him as well but at least he wasn't as inept as Misbah.

2015 - 2017

2015 WC and 2016/17 Tour of Australia proved why he's the worst ever captain in Australia. If you don't agree ask Junaids who lives there and has extensive experience of attending international matches held in the country.

2019

What he did as a committee member to oust Mickey behind his back to serve his own self-interests was just despicable to say the least. But that sums up Misbah and the sheer greed of this man.

In the UAE, Mickey's team whitewashed a full strength Sri Lanka 3-0 this time of the year, in 2017.

This time round the team's fortunes changed, as they were whitewashed at home against a heavily depleted Sri Lanka side by 3-0. In respect of playing Sri Lanka in bilateral T20Is, Misbah has already taken the team from 100% win record to a 100% loss record.

I suggest bookmarking this, so perhaps one day you will realise this fantasy you have of Misbah was after all a bad dream for Pakistan cricket.

I think it's about time to respect the greats (Root and Wasim) of the game. Being well behaved like Kane and Misbah doesn't win you a World Cup or any other trophies.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

As mentioned before Wasim was not perfect but to state you would take Misbah over him is beyond going overboard, which is why I've come up with a timeline to detail the issues we've had with your preferred choice:

2011

Mohali: I will never forgive him for this because I know what his intentions were. He wasn't playing for the team, he was playing for his place in the side, so he could muster a few more years in the side.

2013

1. His time was up in tests when Pakistan lost against a very weak Zimbabwe side. If he cared about the best interests of Pakistan cricket, he would have retired, so Fawad Alam could step in as his replacement at number 5.

2. In the 2013 CT, Misbah's Pakistan lost every game to crash out of the group. He should have retired after the Mohali knock but if there was another telling moment it was two years after that. Now contrast this to what Sarfraz achieved in the following edition of the CT, which was held in England. Don't get me wrong, I despise him as well but at least he wasn't as inept as Misbah.

2015 - 2017

2015 WC and 2016/17 Tour of Australia proved why he's the worst ever captain in Australia. If you don't agree ask Junaids who lives there and has extensive experience of attending international matches held in the country.

2019

What he did as a committee member to oust Mickey behind his back to serve his own self-interests was just despicable to say the least. But that sums up Misbah and the sheer greed of this man.

In the UAE, Mickey's team whitewashed a full strength Sri Lanka 3-0 this time of the year, in 2017.

This time round the team's fortunes changed, as they were whitewashed at home against a heavily depleted Sri Lanka side by 3-0. In respect of playing Sri Lanka in bilateral T20Is, Misbah has already taken the team from 100% win record to a 100% loss record.

I suggest bookmarking this, so perhaps one day you will realise this fantasy you have of Misbah was after all a bad dream for Pakistan cricket.

I think it's about time to respect the greats (Root and Wasim) of the game. Being well behaved like Kane and Misbah doesn't win you a World Cup or any other trophies.

Yeah you're right. It was Misbah's fault that scored 96 out of Pakistan 170 odd runs against West Indies. Or that he averaged 86 in that tournament. Or that only one other Pakistani batter scored even a single fifty in the entire tournament. Your childish hate towards Misbah is laughable because you seem to be completely oblivious to the utterly shambolic performance of the rest of Pakistan's batting in that tournament. Blaming the captain just because the side did poorly is something you do when you have no intention of examining the causes for failure more deeply.

Re: Mohali you're entitled to your opinion. I'll admit that was a pathetic performance by him. But by the same measure I'll also never forgive Wasim for deliberately faking an injury (probably because he took a payout from some bookie) to sit out the 1996 World Cup Quarter-Final against India.

I struggled to understand your last paragraph because it was so poorly worded, but no, Pakistan under Mickey never whitewashed a full-strength Sri Lankan side in UAE in 2017. We did get whitewashed by them when he was coach...in 2017. But we did not beat them in UAE under his tenure. So maybe you need to update your facts regarding that. Infact, when we beat Sri Lanka last time around in Pakistan Mickey was Sri Lanka's head-coach and Misbah was Pakistan's head-coach.

I've already said numerous times that Misbah was never a great captain tactically. Nowhere was this exposed more so than in Australia where he struggled to use Yasir Shah properly, control the flow of runs or set the right fields for his bowlers. But to say he was any worse than Wasim or most other Pakistani captains in Australia is utterly laughable. If that was the case, we would have won atleast one freaking test match in Oz in the last 25+ years. And while tactics weren't always Misbah's strong suit, like I said, he was a great leader who understood specific things really well. Things like: how to win at home. During Misbah's reign Pakistan never lost a single test series in UAE and during his time as coach we never lost a series at home. As soon as he left both roles though, we lost a series in UAE and we lost a series in Pakistan.

Naah I think I'll respect and disrespect who I want. And for me being a gutless cheat and coward goes a long way in making me see you differently as a person. Misbah may be a divisive figure among alot of fans who fail to properly comprehend everything he has achieved...because I guess Pakistani fans always seem to live under the delusion that their side is somehow better than it actually is. Me though, I remember perfectly well how bad Pakistan was between 2007 and 2017. And how much it meant to lead that mediocre side to the top of the test rankings. At the end of the day, Misbah is a legend. Whether you agree or not does not matter at all. His legacy is written and when all's said and done he will be remembered as one of the greatest Pakistani captains of all-time. Someone whose name will be mentioned among only a select few. And though Wasim can very easily lay claim to being Pakistan's greatest cricketer of all-time, he isn't even in the conversation when it comes to Pakistan's best captains.

 

[topspin]

Yeah you're right. It was Misbah's fault that scored 96 out of Pakistan 170 odd runs against West Indies. Or that he averaged 86 in that tournament. Or that only one other Pakistani batter scored even a single fifty in the entire tournament. Your childish hate towards Misbah is laughable because you seem to be completely oblivious to the utterly shambolic performance of the rest of Pakistan's batting in that tournament. Blaming the captain just because the side did poorly is something you do when you have no intention of examining the causes for failure more deeply.

Re: Mohali you're entitled to your opinion. I'll admit that was a pathetic performance by him. But by the same measure I'll also never forgive Wasim for deliberately faking an injury (probably because he took a payout from some bookie) to sit out the 1996 World Cup Quarter-Final against India.

I struggled to understand your last paragraph because it was so poorly worded, but no, Pakistan under Mickey never whitewashed a full-strength Sri Lankan side in UAE in 2017. We did get whitewashed by them when he was coach...in 2017. But we did not beat them in UAE under his tenure. So maybe you need to update your facts regarding that. Infact, when we beat Sri Lanka last time around in Pakistan Mickey was Sri Lanka's head-coach and Misbah was Pakistan's head-coach.

I've already said numerous times that Misbah was never a great captain tactically. Nowhere was this exposed more so than in Australia where he struggled to use Yasir Shah properly, control the flow of runs or set the right fields for his bowlers. But to say he was any worse than Wasim or most other Pakistani captains in Australia is utterly laughable. If that was the case, we would have won atleast one freaking test match in Oz in the last 25+ years. And while tactics weren't always Misbah's strong suit, like I said, he was a great leader who understood specific things really well. Things like: how to win at home. During Misbah's reign Pakistan never lost a single test series in UAE and during his time as coach we never lost a series at home. As soon as he left both roles though, we lost a series in UAE and we lost a series in Pakistan.

Naah I think I'll respect and disrespect who I want. And for me being a gutless cheat and coward goes a long way in making me see you differently as a person. Misbah may be a divisive figure among alot of fans who fail to properly comprehend everything he has achieved...because I guess Pakistani fans always seem to live under the delusion that their side is somehow better than it actually is. Me though, I remember perfectly well how bad Pakistan was between 2007 and 2017. And how much it meant to lead that mediocre side to the top of the test rankings. At the end of the day, Misbah is a legend. Whether you agree or not does not matter at all. His legacy is written and when all's said and done he will be remembered as one of the greatest Pakistani captains of all-time. Someone whose name will be mentioned among only a select few. And though Wasim can very easily lay claim to being Pakistan's greatest cricketer of all-time, he isn't even in the conversation when it comes to Pakistan's best captains.

There were a number of poor innings in that Mohali game but Misbah's stuck out like a sore thumb because anyone with a decent understanding of the sport could see that he was playing for his place in the side. He didn't want to take responsibility until the run rate had spiked up.

The commentators (including Ravi Shashtri) were puzzled and even Nick Knight (in the Sky Sports Studio) admitted that he was annoyed by what he had seen.

I don't think Nick Knight, Ravi Shashtri and the tens of millions of Pakistans fans had a childish dislike of his innings.

You can come up with whatever coping mechanism you like to defend your hero but that doesn't change that Misbah had a poor track record in ICC white ball events.

I agree with your view on Wasim in re: 1996 QF. A colleague of mine at my old job told me about this and it obviously seemed very dodgy. Believe me when I say this, I know the good, bad and the ugly when it comes to this but lets not forget he's our best bowler of all time, one of the two best players produced by Pakistan and he's a World Cup winning hero. Yes he should achieved more as captain and as a bowler from the late 90s onwards but to say you prefer Misbah over him as a player and role model is a joke.

I'm glad you acknowledge Misbah's ineptness from a tactical standpoint. As for the 2017 series against SL, I should have clarified... I'm talking about the T20I series.

If Misbah is a Pakistan legend let alone a cricketing legend then God help Pakistan cricket.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

There were a number of poor innings in that Mohali game but Misbah's stuck out like a sore thumb because anyone with a decent understanding of the sport could see that he was playing for his place in the side. He didn't want to take responsibility until the run rate had spiked up.

The commentators (including Ravi Shashtri) were puzzled and even Nick Knight (in the Sky Sports Studio) admitted that he was annoyed by what he had seen.

I don't think Nick Knight, Ravi Shashtri and the tens of millions of Pakistans fans had a childish dislike of his innings.

You can come up with whatever coping mechanism you like to defend your hero but that doesn't change that Misbah had a poor track record in ICC white ball events.

I agree with your view on Wasim in re: 1996 QF. A colleague of mine at my old job told me about this and it obviously seemed very dodgy. Believe me when I say this, I know the good, bad and the ugly when it comes to this but lets not forget he's our best bowler of all time, one of the two best players produced by Pakistan and he's a World Cup winning hero. Yes he should achieved more as captain and as a bowler from the late 90s onwards but to say you prefer Misbah over him as a player and role model is a joke.

I'm glad you acknowledge Misbah's ineptness from a tactical standpoint. As for the 2017 series against SL, I should have clarified... I'm talking about the T20I series.

If Misbah is a Pakistan legend let alone a cricketing legend then God help Pakistan cricket.

I'd rather take someone who tried and failed rather than a coward and a cheat who deliberately chose to sit out one of the most important matches of his career. That right there is the difference between Misbah and Wasim. All the talent, skill and ability in the world can't make up for the fact that deep down Wasim was crooked to the bone. And for that, his reputation will always be tainted. No matter how much you talk about Wasim's greatness, there will always be an asterisk next to his name.

Well he is. It may be news to you, but his status as a Pakistan legend was confirmed years ago when he retired from test cricket.

 

[topspin]

I'd rather take someone who tried and failed rather than a coward and a cheat who deliberately chose to sit out one of the most important matches of his career. That right there is the difference between Misbah and Wasim. All the talent, skill and ability in the world can't make up for the fact that deep down Wasim was crooked to the bone. And for that, his reputation will always be tainted. No matter how much you talk about Wasim's greatness, there will always be an asterisk next to his name.

Well he is. It may be news to you, but his status as a Pakistan legend was confirmed years ago when he retired from test cricket.

Misbah was no saint either but due to your unwavering loyalty towards him, you choose to ignore it - as I mentioned in a previous post:

2019

What he did as a committee member to oust Mickey behind his back to serve his own self-interests was just despicable to say the least. But that sums up Misbah and the sheer greed of this man.

If Misbah did a good job as Coach/Chief Selector, I could overlook this transgression but any rational individual who sincerely has the best interests of Pakistan cricket wouldn't for the following reasons:

1. He didn't even have the minimum qualifications to be a coach of an international cricket team. Not even Zimbabwe or Afghanistan would consider him as a specialist coach let alone a Head Coach or selector role.

2. He had no relevant experience to take up this role. I mean has he ever coached a First-Class side for a whole season let alone accomplish results in this capacity?

3. He was a poor captain who had a poor cricketing IQ. You've also mention that you don't rate him from a tactical perspective.

For the above reasons, Misbah had nothing going for him and he had no chance of succeeding as a Coach and/or Selector even in the slightest.

 

[topspin]

I'd rather take someone who tried and failed rather than a coward and a cheat who deliberately chose to sit out one of the most important matches of his career. That right there is the difference between Misbah and Wasim. All the talent, skill and ability in the world can't make up for the fact that deep down Wasim was crooked to the bone. And for that, his reputation will always be tainted. No matter how much you talk about Wasim's greatness, there will always be an asterisk next to his name.

Well he is. It may be news to you, but his status as a Pakistan legend was confirmed years ago when he retired from test cricket.

This is laughable. If we were to name all the Pakistan legends, you and I both know Misbah would be significantly inferior to all of them.

Misbah was fortunate that Pakistan had to play their home tests in UAE. I say that because if you look at his test batting average in Pakistan, it's below 30. That's awful when you consider how flat the wickets are there.

In UAE he averaged just shy of 60. He played most of his tests in the slow and soulless desert. UAE was and still remains to be the biggest graveyard for pace bowlers. What we can conclude from this is that it makes pace bowling conditions in Pakistan deadly for someone of Misbah's calibre.

Without home tests in UAE, he wouldn't have had much of a career. The facts speak for themselves.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Misbah was no saint either but due to your unwavering loyalty towards him, you choose to ignore it - as I mentioned in a previous post:

2019

What he did as a committee member to oust Mickey behind his back to serve his own self-interests was just despicable to say the least. But that sums up Misbah and the sheer greed of this man.

If Misbah did a good job as Coach/Chief Selector, I could overlook this transgression but any rational individual who sincerely has the best interests of Pakistan cricket wouldn't for the following reasons:

1. He didn't even have the minimum qualifications to be a coach of an international cricket team. Not even Zimbabwe or Afghanistan would consider him as a specialist coach let alone a Head Coach or selector role.

2. He had no relevant experience to take up this role. I mean has he ever coached a First-Class side for a whole season let alone accomplish results in this capacity?

3. He was a poor captain who had a poor cricketing IQ. You've also mention that you don't rate him from a tactical perspective.

For the above reasons, Misbah had nothing going for him and he had no chance of succeeding as a Coach and/or Selector even in the slightest.

LOL you are comparing someone being ambitious to get a job to being a match-fixer? You really must be out of your mind to even make that approximation.

Misbah was a great leader and thought he could do a good job as coach. He was confident of his abilities and there's nothing wrong with that. At the end of the day it was the PCB that made the decision to appoint him, not Misbah himself so you blaming him for that is also quite laughable.

Again, to even make the comparison between match-fixing and wanting to be coach is ludicrous. You've lost any and all credibility you had.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

This is laughable. If we were to name all the Pakistan legends, you and I both know Misbah would be significantly inferior to all of them.

Misbah was fortunate that Pakistan had to play their home tests in UAE. I say that because if you look at his test batting average in Pakistan, it's below 30. That's awful when you consider how flat the wickets are there.

In UAE he averaged just shy of 60. He played most of his tests in the slow and soulless desert. UAE was and still remains to be the biggest graveyard for pace bowlers. What we can conclude from this is that it makes pace bowling conditions in Pakistan deadly for someone of Misbah's calibre.

Without home tests in UAE, he wouldn't have had much of a career. The facts speak for themselves.

LMAOOO lucky??

You mean he and Pakistan were lucky that they couldn't play their home matches infront of their home crowds and instead in the baking heat of UAE infront of empty stands?

Mate you've well and truly gone over the hill. Misbah played 5 tests in Pakistan, some of which he played in 2002-03 long before he became a mainstay of the side.

First off, UAE was not home, it was a neutral venue. Secondly, without home tests any great player wouldn't have much of a career at all. I mean what an utterly stupid statement to even make. How many players in the world do you think would have great stats if you took out their numbers at home? I mean do you even think before coming up with this stuff?

 

[topspin]

LOL you are comparing someone being ambitious to get a job to being a match-fixer? You really must be out of your mind to even make that approximation.

Misbah was a great leader and thought he could do a good job as coach. He was confident of his abilities and there's nothing wrong with that. At the end of the day it was the PCB that made the decision to appoint him, not Misbah himself so you blaming him for that is also quite laughable.

Again, to even make the comparison between match-fixing and wanting to be coach is ludicrous. You've lost any and all credibility you had.

I don't know about you, where I come from, he committed a number of offences including conflict of interest and constitutes as fraud. You can't be a committee member and use your position to oust someone so you can secure the role for yourself.

I never compared match fixing to what Misbah did, all I said was that he ain't no saint which is a fact.

Haha I'm losing credibility? That is ironic when we look at your joke Azhar Ali thread and how you still maintain that "Joe Root isn't fit to tie Kane Williamson's shoelace". Deep down you know these posts are blowing back to your face.

You've lost any and all credibility you had.

Honestly, have a look in the mirror before you come up with anything like this again.

 

[topspin]

LMAOOO lucky??

You mean he and Pakistan were lucky that they couldn't play their home matches infront of their home crowds and instead in the baking heat of UAE infront of empty stands?

Mate you've well and truly gone over the hill. Misbah played 5 tests in Pakistan, some of which he played in 2002-03 long before he became a mainstay of the side.

First off, UAE was not home, it was a neutral venue. Secondly, without home tests any great player wouldn't have much of a career at all. I mean what an utterly stupid statement to even make. How many players in the world do you think would have great stats if you took out their numbers at home? I mean do you even think before coming up with this stuff?

His overall test batting average has been inflated by his runs in UAE. You can spin it whichever way you like to suit your agenda. In Pakistan he failed. The numbers speak for themselves.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I don't know about you, where I come from, he committed a number of offences including conflict of interest and constitutes as fraud. You can't be a committee member and use your position to oust someone so you can secure the role for yourself.

I never compared match fixing to what Misbah did, all I said was that he ain't no saint which is a fact.

Haha I'm losing credibility? That is ironic when we look at your joke Azhar Ali thread and how you still maintain that "Joe Root isn't fit to tie Kane Williamson's shoelace". Deep down you know these posts are blowing back to your face.



Honestly, have a look in the mirror before you come up with anything like this again.

How so? For one thing, he was not the only person responsible for ousting Arthur. The decision was made by a committee that featured your idol too. Secondly, it was the PCB that offered him that job. And he took that job after he resigned from the cricket committee. That's not a conflict of interest anywhere in the world.

As expected when you have nothing to add you resort to the coward's move of bringing things that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. But that's expected from you because deep down you know that you have nothing to say.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

His overall test batting average has been inflated by his runs in UAE. You can spin it whichever way you like to suit your agenda. In Pakistan he failed. The numbers speak for themselves.

That's like saying Kohli's overall test batting average is inflated by his runs in India. You don't say? Well that would make sense considering he is Indian and therefore played most of his test matches in his home country lol.

Quoting numbers without context is absolutely meaningless. Misbah played 4 tests in Pakistan after returning to the side. And that too between 2007 and 2009 when he had not established himself in the test side. If he actually had the chance to play in Pakistan his record there would be an outstanding one because he was one of the best players of spin in the world for most of his international career.

Anyway its obvious you're crutching at straws at this point. Your arguments are toothless and you have nothing of substance to add. Save yourself the further embarrassment and just stop replying.

Misbah is a Pakistani legend whether you like it or not.

 

[topspin]

How so? For one thing, he was not the only person responsible for ousting Arthur. The decision was made by a committee that featured your idol too. Secondly, it was the PCB that offered him that job. And he took that job after he resigned from the cricket committee. That's not a conflict of interest anywhere in the world.

As expected when you have nothing to add you resort to the coward's move of bringing things that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. But that's expected from you because deep down you know that you have nothing to say.

It's 100% conflict of interest but that's not the worst part. It's knowing that you're an unqualified coach with no relevant experience - and therefore knowing that you're not fit for the role. Like we saw in Mohali, he's never cared about Pakistan's best interests. He only cares about himself which is why a Misbah loyalist should be the last person on Earth to be taking a moral high ground and taking shots at Wasim Akram.

Also, Misbah wouldn't have lasted if he was a captain in the 90s let alone accomplished anything. There were a lot of strong characters during that era. They would have a hard job of taking Misbah seriously. That's why he has always favoured timid cricketers like Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq because he doesn't have much of a spine.

Misbah's tactical nous was non existent. But luckily, he didn't need any to be successful in UAE because he had the likes of Younis Khan, Saeed Ajmal and Yasir Shah to carry him. His cricketing IQ pales in comparison to Wasim, who would've won the same number (if not more) series in the UAE.

Taking a line from your book (without getting the names the wrong way around), the bottom line is:

Misbah isn't fit to tie Wasim's shoelaces, neither as a player nor as a captain.