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Ramiz Raja versus Waqar Younis on commentary

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Saj

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Interesting battle between Ramiz and Waqar on commentary.

Basically Ramiz slamming Pakistan for the slow approach in recent times, the fact they lost 6 Tests in a row in NZ and Australia and how between 97 and 2007 Pakistan's strike rate was much better.

Waqar on the other hand saying that it has worked for Pakistan and that we may have had a better strike-rate in 97 and 2007 but we were never number 1 in the rankings.
 
Seems like both were of same view in the end. Settled players who probably also will open in CT playing like turtles.
 
I think Waqar must have forgotten the success Inzi's team had.
 
The good thing with Waqar is that he doesn't seem like a bitter man at all considering he has coached this team priviously.
 
Given that Ramiz is one of those idiots who thinks we should copy whatever Australia does, I'm going to copy and paste my post from the other thread:

Big Mac said:
Run rates for visiting teams since 2010:

Windies - 2.96 RPO
UAE - 2.98 RPO

Let's take a look at how the super aggressive, always batting at 3.5-4.0 RPO because they're so amazing and attacking and awesome and aggressive and Pakistan need to copy them Aussies did when they travelled to those places this decade.

Aus in WI - 2.94 RPO
Aus in UAE - 2.93 RPO

Wow, such aggression, much attacking.
Click to expand...


It's almost like different conditions require different batting approaches and Pakistan, like Australia, have tailored their approach to what works best for their home conditions. :broad
 
MRSN said:
that too playing 80% of our cricket on one of the most flattest roads of UAE. it's incredible level of dull cricket we have been playing in the last 7 years. That's also affected us in other formats as well.
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UAE wickets may be flat, but are not ideal for fluent run scoring. The ptiches generally have no pace which makes it difficult to time shots and score quickly. As suggested by Big Mac (Aus in WI - 2.94 RPO Aus in UAE - 2.93 RPO) its more about the pitches we play on that we have modeled our game accordingly.
 
Faisalsq092 said:
UAE wickets may be flat, but are not ideal for fluent run scoring. The ptiches generally have no pace which makes it difficult to time shots and score quickly. As suggested by Big Mac (Aus in WI - 2.94 RPO Aus in UAE - 2.93 RPO) its more about the pitches we play on that we have modeled our game accordingly.
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Aus playing in alien conditions so it's a different situation for them. Their lack of skills against spin put them on the defensive foot as they go to survival mode.

Pakistan plays similar brand of cricket whether it's Sri Lanka,UAE,West Indies,NZ or Zimbabwe. There is a reason why we are ranked on the 2nd last when it comes to scoring rate in last 7 years.
 
Rameez is unbearable on commentary. They are not playing for your personal entertainment Rameez, they are playing to win and executing their strategy.

Yeah they got spanked in Australia and New Zealand, all Asian teams get spanked. Why does he forget the drawn series in England, where they outperformed most visiting teams.
 
The RR wouldn't be an issue if our team didn't struggle to rotate strike ... That's what the cricketing experts should be really highlighting.
 
boomboom6 said:
The RR wouldn't be an issue if our team didn't struggle to rotate strike ... That's what the cricketing experts should be really highlighting.
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Your first mistake was thinking that Ramiz is a cricketing expert.
 
Why is this even an issue? Tests last for 5 days, not 5 minutes.

Our RR problem in LOI's is an issue.
 
lol @ people getting worked up about the run rate in a 5 day Test match. Like come on.
 
The fact of the matter is that the strategy works for Pakistan in test cricket, because test cricket is 5 days.

However, the defensivensss isn't just strategy - it is also a result of poor cricket. Ahmed Shehzad in particular lacks the ability to rotate ths strike. When he then doesn't try to score boundaries either, he quite literally doesn't make any runs.

I don't think Azhar needs to do anything different, because we all know that most times when he gets in, he won't throw his wicket away but will end up with a substantial score at 45 strike rate. Shehzad however should be told that once you get your eye in (i.e. 10 over mark), you must free up and play your natural game - because otherwise Shehzad will score 50s at 25 strike rate and get out. Unlike Azhar, Shehzad won't maintain at least 45 strike rate, nor can Shehzad be trusted to come good once he gets hks eye in.

Things would be so different if we had Sharjeel!
 
Last edited:
Nasty Naz said:
lol @ people getting worked up about the run rate in a 5 day Test match. Like come on.
Click to expand...

Actually, have you thought about why this present era has the least number of draws in the history of test match cricket?

It because there are batsmen like Warner who can smash a century in a session and the teams can score about 400 in a day.

Pakistan on the other hand thinks its a good day if we score 250 odd in a day. As we have seen this doesn't lead to much success in places like AUS or NZ. Our rpo in recent England tour was 3.2, and it was 3.4 in the matches that we won.

While it was 3 in Australia and 2.6 in NZ. Which shows why we had some success in England while we got completely obliterated in Oceania.
 
Rambo doesn't know what the heck he's talking about.He's a rubbish commentator with no cricketing nous.
 
Give Rameez a stat and he will moan/ glorify it depending on the stat without adding any value or expertise to it. He will use the same monotonous general statements describing the passage of play. For the bowling team he will always state the importance of a fast bowler with reverse swing and a leg spinner's value to the team. The only thing working in his favor is his command over English and a good voice.
 
I enjoy test cricket. Azhar is a proper test batsman. He bats at what is seen as a decent strike rate and he has a proven record all over the world. Shehzad on the other hand was playing for himself and was batting so slowly it was embarrassing. Disgraceful from him last night. Azhar is a future great so not worried about him. We really needed Sami here because I think he would have played normally not like a rabbit in the headlights..
 
Since sarfraz's return in our test team our runrate is 3.24

From october 2010 to jan 14 our runrate was 2.82.

Only if sharjeel hadnt been involved with bookies we could have achieved a runrate of 3.5. We are just a player away from achieving a good runrate IMO
 
From 2007 to 2010 england tour was probably our worst period in test cricket history , we won only 4 matches and lost 14 test matches. A win loss ratio of 0.28 , but our runrate was better ,3.09.
 
Saj said:
Interesting battle between Ramiz and Waqar on commentary.

Basically Ramiz slamming Pakistan for the slow approach in recent times, the fact they lost 6 Tests in a row in NZ and Australia and how between 97 and 2007 Pakistan's strike rate was much better.

Waqar on the other hand saying that it has worked for Pakistan and that we may have had a better strike-rate in 97 and 2007 but we were never number 1 in the rankings.
Click to expand...

Forget the rankings, the main issue is that Pakistan were never overly consistent in terms of test series between 97-07. How many series did they go unbeaten? How many times did they chase the type of score Misbah's pakistan have chased? They couldn't even beat England at home and then lost to England away as well. Eventually won on 06 but by that point they were 2-1 in this century.

Pakistan under Misbah have gone a total of 14 test series unbeaten (in 2 separate stints).

Plus, too much is being made of the rr without providing any context to the stats. Raja is too nostalgic for his own era anyway and acts like he was some world class bat lol
 
Result is something which matters the most. If someone Wins after playing defensively then whats wrong. Its wrong just because you like to attack. Sorry I am not with you, I just want to win.
 
pakistan tried speeding up the run rate and lost 3 quick wickets. Waqar was defending the team because this was a product of his coaching however this technique, even though it isn't great works for pakistan and is the reason why they were number 1 not so long ago.
 
The minute Australia shunned the "Hit yourself out of trouble" strategy for Asian conditions, they competed tooth and nail in India in the recent series. Test cricket is a bit more complex than just simply deciding on a strategy and going in with that irrespective of the conditions/pitch, the opposition´s bowling attack and more importantly, your own batting line and the kind of approach suited to your batsmen.

Sometimes yes, such an approach has to be adopted and can work wonders, like in the Ashes 2005 for England, but it all depends on different factors and what works for you in what conditions. The conditions in the West Indies for example, where Pakistan are playing right now, are the ones where patiences bring about the best results. I know it doesn´t make for great viewing, so I can understand where Ramiz is coming from, but being a former Test player himself he should know all that better.

If he was talking about Pakistan´s ODI and the T20I team, then fair enough, criticism there is legitimate.
 
Ramiz is right. As for Waqar, he needs to realize that 90s team too would be ranked #1 and for much longer if all they did for 5 years was play in Asia.
 
A few points to note:

a) Our number one ranking was superficial; we only got there because of a washout between India and West Indies, which is why we kept the Mace for about two seconds only.

b) The Run Rate is not much of an issue. Yes we are terribly boring, but this is Test cricket. As long as you can score big at >3 runs per over, you should not lose many matches.

c) The main problem is our bowling, which is extremely overrated both individually and collectively. We are one of the poorest bowling sides at the moment, and they were the architects of our losing streak. Our batting did more than enough to draw the series in Australia, let alone prevent a whitewash.
 
Mamoon said:
A few points to note:

a) Our number one ranking was superficial; we only got there because of a washout between India and West Indies, which is why we kept the Mace for about two seconds only.

b) The Run Rate is not much of an issue. Yes we are terribly boring, but this is Test cricket. As long as you can score big at >3 runs per over, you should not lose many matches.

c) The main problem is our bowling, which is extremely overrated both individually and collectively. We are one of the poorest bowling sides at the moment, and they were the architects of our losing streak. Our batting did more than enough to draw the series in Australia, let alone prevent a whitewash.
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I agree with you but thora sa ziyadah ho gaya when you said " We have the poorest bowling line-up right now" just becuase of wahab you are making this statement. Pakistani bowling is getting better and it will get better by time once we rid of the likes of Wahab Riaz
 
Each have a point , this isn't a black white debate

What I find though is the people ignore how crucial sarfraz is to this team even if makes 40 odd runs. Imagine if we didn't have him, the runrate would be below 2.5
 
StreetSmart said:
I agree with you but thora sa ziyadah ho gaya when you said " We have the poorest bowling line-up right now" just becuase of wahab you are making this statement. Pakistani bowling is getting better and it will get better by time once we rid of the likes of Wahab Riaz
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I said 'one of'.
 
IAJ said:
Seems like both were of same view in the end. Settled players who probably also will open in CT playing like turtles.
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No, Ramiz came back with his old favourite "Pakistan lost 6 Tests in a row"
 
Test cricket was competitive in 1997-07.WI team was good and difficult to beat and Zimbabwe team was more competent as well
 
One on TV, one on TMS..... Take your pick
 
gazza619 said:
Waqar is defo not one of them.

Embarrassing himself by calling Sachin baby face live on TV on his face
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I don't see anything wrong in calling Sachin baby face. I mean he was describing the 1989 match.
 
Ramiz and Waqar are both terrible commentators, neither has any insight or cricket brain whatsoever.
 
Did anyone feel that the Pakistani commentators did not take todays loss too hard ? Hota hai chalta hai move on etc .... ?
 
uppercut said:
Did anyone feel that the Pakistani commentators did not take todays loss too hard ? Hota hai chalta hai move on etc .... ?
Click to expand...

Can't blame them. They have to maintain their composure and dignity. If they show their counterparts that they are emotionally upset, they will pounce over them.
 
There’s a reason Waqar is a tactical failure as a coach…
 
uppercut said:
Did anyone feel that the Pakistani commentators did not take todays loss too hard ? Hota hai chalta hai move on etc .... ?
Click to expand...
Yeah but it’s such a worn out script. Most Pakistanis feel the same.

This is how it’s been since the 2011 WC and also in t20s save for 2007 and 2021.

Show up nervous and panicky while India are composed. Collapse at a mediocre score. India wins. Gg.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Ramiz and Waqar are both terrible commentators, neither has any insight or cricket brain whatsoever.
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Ramiz did a pre match show covering Pakistans practice session ahead of ind vs pak. He said, " Ind vs pak is the mummy daddy contest of all contests" what he meant to say is, this is the mother of all contests.
 
Seems Waqar's learnt some new words - keeps on saying smart, smarts, smarts of the game etc!
 
Surprised Ramiz would prioritize commentating in the BPL over the PSL.
 
I think Ramiz had an agreement with BPL already before he was listed for PSL. He might come after the BPL is finished. Want to see him back in the commentary panel. Waqat is not good at all. His urdu commentary is the worst one.
 
BouncerGuy said:
I think Ramiz had an agreement with BPL already before he was listed for PSL. He might come after the BPL is finished. Want to see him back in the commentary panel. Waqat is not good at all. His urdu commentary is the worst one.
Click to expand...

Is BPL still running? I was wondering where Ramiz was, seemed strange he isn't on the commentary team. In answering the OP I don't rate either's commentary, but I have found myself missing Ramiz's cringey comments more than I thought.
 
Both intolerable. I can’t tolerate Waqar’s broken English and his outdated methods of how white ball cricket should be played. It comes to no surprise that he was a serial failure in multiple stints as Head and Bowling Coach for Pakistan cricket.

Ramiz is equally intolerable because, well the best way I can put it, is his mouth his too fast for his brain.

I would like to see Shan Masood take over as Pakistan’s leading commentator after he retires from playing. He has a good cricketing mind and is up-to-speed with the modern demands of all forms of cricket.
 
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