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Ravi Ashwin - First Spinner to take 200+ wickets at an average under 25 with strike rate below 50

Thivagar said:
When Australian and Kiwi fast bowlers destroy batsmen at home and choke abroad, they are excused because they are bowling in "flat pitches". When a spinner does the same, he is questioned of being a home track bully.
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The wickets Aussies and Kiwi's bowl are usually roads...

You know what...

tumblr_oejf4kWlzo1u9tdblo1_400.gif
 
JaDed said:
Here is the thing i don't understand about rating Warne as the best spinner at times considering the logic going around.

Warne got somewhat favorable spin conditions in India and he was useless against us,averaged even worse when India toured Aus.

In the logic that is being applied nowadays Warne probably jacked up numbers against players who can't play spin.
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He ended up with the record he has despite playing majority of his career on unhelpful pitches
 
It's a phenomenal achievement. If he plays 100 test matches, he'll easily pass 500 test wickets. Irrespective of how many wickets he's taken in India, the fact remains that you still have to take wickets. Other bowlers also have the same spinning conditions available to them yet they aren't able to match Ashwin's achievements. Yes in order to be considered an all-time great, he needs to win matches for India single-handedly outside Asia as well but let's not discredit his achievements so far. Even Yasir is an unproven commodity outside Asia. Yes he took a couple of 5 wicket hauls but he also got a lot of punishment in the England Test series. Who knows Yasir will be completely ineffective in Australia. Then Ashwin will look a better bowler to many PPers here.
 
Slog said:
He ended up with the record he has despite playing majority of his career on unhelpful pitches
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But not against batsmen who could play spin in spin friendly and home conditions? Indians were the best players of spin during his time and he couldn't do much against us?In a similar logic today many players are discarded from ATG tag.

I would say similar thing about Ponting ,averages 26 after 14 tests and the average improved only because of his last tour similar logic is used to discard Kohli from having potential.
 
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JaDed said:
But not against batsmen who could play spin in spin friendly and home conditions? Indians were the best players of spin during his time and he couldn't do much against us?In a similar logic today many players are discarded from ATG tag.

I would say similar thing about Ponting ,averages 26 after 14 tests and the average improved only because of his last tour similar logic is used to discard Kohli from having potential.
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This is terrible logic lol

Yes Warne didn't do well against one country all the time but did we'll against others who were good players of spin (SL, Pak etc). He has an overall very good all round record

Ashwin need not do any regular magic on England SA and NZ or end up with sub 30 averages there's All he needs is 3,4 match winning spells in atleast 2 of these countries and the criticism will go away

Warne btw does have some good performances in India including a 6-fer and a couple of 4fers in an innings. And in SL, Pak it's excellent

When Ashwin has a few of these type of performances in England NZ and/or SA then this argument may make sense if ppl are still criticising Ashwin. Right now he has nothing of note in the toughest conditions
 
Slog said:
This is terrible logic lol

Yes Warne didn't do well against one country all the time but did we'll against others who were good players of spin (SL, Pak etc). He has an overall very good all round record

Ashwin need not do any regular magic on England SA and NZ or end up with sub 30 averages there's All he needs is 3,4 match winning spells in atleast 2 of these countries and the criticism will go away

Warne btw does have some good performances in India including a 6-fer and a couple of 4fers in an innings. And in SL, Pak it's excellent

When Ashwin has a few of these type of performances in England NZ and/or SA then this argument may make sense if ppl are still criticising Ashwin. Right now he has nothing of note in the toughest conditions
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Pakistan weren't great players of spin during Warne's time,YK and Misbah are defn better ones.Also against Lanka its a mixed bag with average home performance and very good performance in Lanka.

He averages almost 40 in Windies as well(Lara) and is hella bad against India (home and away) so his performance is not based on away matches?
In today's time all it takes is one bad away tour to consider them not worthy ATG.(eg: Kohli)

So his best were against England,Saffers,Kiwis all of whom aren't that great at playing spin anyway during his time.
 
He'll remain this era's one of the top own-track spin bowlers.

Though a lot to go still, it's one major reason why he won't be considered among the greats of the game (like Yasir Shah is already rated worldwide).

Maybe he'll change later and start winning matches for his side abroad too.
 
JaDed said:
Pakistan weren't great players of spin during Warne's time,YK and Misbah are defn better ones.Also against Lanka its a mixed bag with average home performance and very good performance in Lanka.

He averages almost 40 in Windies as well(Lara) and is hella bad against India (home and away) so his performance is not based on away matches?
In today's time all it takes is one bad away tour to consider them not worthy ATG.(eg: Kohli)

So his best were against England,Saffers,Kiwis all of whom aren't that great at playing spin anyway during his time.
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Kohli isn't considered worthy of being an ATG in tests because he avgs 45-46 after a total of 45-50 tests which isn't enough on first place to call him ATG. There are many players out there averaging 45-46 and all can't be called ATG.

Ponting is considered ATG because he was averaging 58 at his peak facing better bowlers and having the ability to take the game away from opposition.
 
Ab Fan said:
Kohli isn't considered worthy of being an ATG in tests because he avgs 45-46 after a total of 45-50 tests which isn't enough on first place to call him ATG. There are many players out there averaging 45-46 and all can't be called ATG.

Ponting is considered ATG because he was averaging 58 at his peak facing better bowlers and having the ability to take the game away from opposition.
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I never said he was an ATG he is too young for that, i was speaking about potential ATG where he wouldn't find a mention which is alright considering he didn't fare well in England but similar logic isn't used against Ponting.
 
JaDed said:
Pakistan weren't great players of spin during Warne's time,YK and Misbah are defn better ones.Also against Lanka its a mixed bag with average home performance and very good performance in Lanka.

He averages almost 40 in Windies as well(Lara) and is hella bad against India (home and away) so his performance is not based on away matches?
In today's time all it takes is one bad away tour to consider them not worthy ATG.(eg: Kohli)

So his best were against England,Saffers,Kiwis all of whom aren't that great at playing spin anyway during his time.
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SA played 24 matches in Asia , won 8, lost 8 at w/l 1. Also averaged 32 runs per wicket behind only India 45, Pakistan 35 and Australia 34.
I don't know where this myth came from regarding SA and spin having won a series in Lanka and India in that time period and later that year with Warne retired won a series in Pakistan.
 
Buffet said:
I watched him bowl in the last inning and he has certainly improved. He used to try too many things earlier and now he sticks to classical spinners setting up batsmen.

I think he may have played similar % of tests in Asia when you compared with his % of wickets in Asia. One of the best offie, Murali was utterly useless in Aus and India. So Ashwin could be useless in 2-3 countries and still contribute a lot for his team. When all said and done, he is winning games for his country consistently. That's what matters.
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Aus, SA, Eng, NZ is hardly one country. That's practically the entire decent Test sides in their conditions. They won't tour the UAE until Misbah and YK have retired as well.
So it's hard to tell if this guy is any good. Personally I don't rate him.
 
Bilal7 said:
Yes, and in case you didn't know, even players past their prime perform well occasionally but the consistency is gone. This would be like me saying that KP and Cook were/are better batsmen than Sachin because they outbatted him in the last test series they competed in.

That burns, doesn't it? :sachin
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Nobody (Atleast me) said Ashwin >> Herath as Herath has played a lot of Test Cricket compared to Ashwin. What I was responding to was to your original point that Ashwin performs only on farcical Indian pitches (Your own words BTW) which going by your description are doctored ( and only when India Bowl lol ) . Thats why I compared his performance to Herath when both were playing on the same pitches in the same test. There cant be any better fair scenario than this.

Secondly Herath had his best year ever beginning from that India Series in SL last year. Averages under 20 ( 18.85 and for the first time his strike rate is below 50 ). So another myth shattered.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...5;spanval2=span;template=results;type=bowling


The first two matches of this series were a turner and then a pitch that was supportive of both pace and spin. Just like in the series against South Africa, India had no problems preparing a flatter pitch for the dead rubber but even then, Ashwin had the best of conditions to bowl in (day 3 onwards).
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This clearly tells us that you never actually watched the series ... India batted at the End of day 3 (6 overs) and for about 43 overs on Day 4 and scored 216 runs in total losing only 3 wkts. no pitch that is helpful to spinners helps in that kind of run making at well over 4 runs/over. On the same day same pitch NZ could not even bat out the remaining 45 overs and were all out for 153.

Herath has his flaws for sure, which player doesn't? However, he's a proven performer in all conditions unlike Ashwin who keeps playing the same exact tune every single time and is being hailed as a great musician (probably not the best analogy).
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Ashwin hasn't played a lot of Tests in Eng (2) ,SAF(1) and NZ(0). So cant compare him to anybody.
 
soso_killer said:
Aus, SA, Eng, NZ is hardly one country. That's practically the entire decent Test sides in their conditions. They won't tour the UAE until Misbah and YK have retired as well.
So it's hard to tell if this guy is any good. Personally I don't rate him.
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And how many games Ashwin played in Aus, SA, Eng and NZ taken together so far? If not many then you can judge him only based on seeing how he bowls. If you don't rate him after seeing him bowl then fair enough. I do rate him after seeing him bowl. I don't rate him based on stats he has gotten so far. Stats will put him in Warne/Murali category and I don't think that he is there.
 
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Some people have problem appreciating anything Indian.How can the same posters who tried to downplay Tendulkar not do the same to an upcoming Indian cricketer.
 
Bilal7 said:
The first two matches of this series were a turner and then a pitch that was supportive of both pace and spin. Just like in the series against South Africa, India had no problems preparing a flatter pitch for the dead rubber but even then, Ashwin had the best of conditions to bowl in (day 3 onwards).
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Ashwin has been playing most of the matches in more batting friendly pitches than any other bowler does at home.

Take a look at the averages of all teams at home and Pakistan in UAE.

<table>
<thead><tr class="tableizer-firstrow"><th>Team</th><th>Span</th><th>Mat</th><th>Runs</th><th>Ave</th><th>SR</th><th>100</th></tr></thead><tbody>
<tr><td>Australia</td><td>2011-2016</td><td>27</td><td>16124</td><td>46.33</td><td>62.51</td><td>50</td></tr>
<tr><td>India</td><td>2011-2016</td><td>22</td><td>11046</td><td>37.82</td><td>54.26</td><td>25</td></tr>
<tr><td>Pakistan</td><td>2012-2015</td><td>16</td><td>9142</td><td>37.62</td><td>49.44</td><td>30</td></tr>
<tr><td>New Zealand</td><td>2012-2016</td><td>18</td><td>9603</td><td>37.07</td><td>55</td><td>22</td></tr>
<tr><td>South Africa</td><td>2011-2016</td><td>24</td><td>11537</td><td>36.62</td><td>52.31</td><td>31</td></tr>
<tr><td>England</td><td>2012-2016</td><td>34</td><td>17951</td><td>34.19</td><td>52.38</td><td>31</td></tr>
<tr><td>Bangladesh</td><td>2011-2015</td><td>16</td><td>8438</td><td>33.61</td><td>53.39</td><td>16</td></tr>
<tr><td>Sri Lanka</td><td>2012-2016</td><td>24</td><td>12307</td><td>30.61</td><td>50.55</td><td>27</td></tr>
<tr><td>West Indies</td><td>2012-2016</td><td>21</td><td>9246</td><td>29.16</td><td>48.43</td><td>15</td></tr>
<tr><td>Zimbabwe</td><td>2013-2016</td><td>7</td><td>3310</td><td>24.16</td><td>42.47</td><td>5</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
 
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AlizeeFan said:
Ashwin has been playing most of the matches in more batting friendly pitches than any other bowler does at home.

Take a look at the averages of all teams at home and Pakistan in UAE.

<table>
<thead><tr class="tableizer-firstrow"><th>Team</th><th>Span</th><th>Mat</th><th>Runs</th><th>Ave</th><th>SR</th><th>100</th></tr></thead><tbody>
<tr><td>Australia</td><td>2011-2016</td><td>27</td><td>16124</td><td>46.33</td><td>62.51</td><td>50</td></tr>
<tr><td>India</td><td>2011-2016</td><td>22</td><td>11046</td><td>37.82</td><td>54.26</td><td>25</td></tr>
<tr><td>Pakistan</td><td>2012-2015</td><td>16</td><td>9142</td><td>37.62</td><td>49.44</td><td>30</td></tr>
<tr><td>New Zealand</td><td>2012-2016</td><td>18</td><td>9603</td><td>37.07</td><td>55</td><td>22</td></tr>
<tr><td>South Africa</td><td>2011-2016</td><td>24</td><td>11537</td><td>36.62</td><td>52.31</td><td>31</td></tr>
<tr><td>England</td><td>2012-2016</td><td>34</td><td>17951</td><td>34.19</td><td>52.38</td><td>31</td></tr>
<tr><td>Bangladesh</td><td>2011-2015</td><td>16</td><td>8438</td><td>33.61</td><td>53.39</td><td>16</td></tr>
<tr><td>Sri Lanka</td><td>2012-2016</td><td>24</td><td>12307</td><td>30.61</td><td>50.55</td><td>27</td></tr>
<tr><td>West Indies</td><td>2012-2016</td><td>21</td><td>9246</td><td>29.16</td><td>48.43</td><td>15</td></tr>
<tr><td>Zimbabwe</td><td>2013-2016</td><td>7</td><td>3310</td><td>24.16</td><td>42.47</td><td>5</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
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I know people will find this surprising but its true.

While Indian pitches have gotten harder in the last 2-3 years....also against SA, the pitches were super hard in 2015....its also true that there were lots of high scoring games too from 2011.

2011 WI tour had teams scoring 400 and 500....Mind you WI was scoring 500....
2012 NZ tour...India scored lots.
2012 Eng tour...only 1 rank turner...otherwise England scored lots...even in the rank turner they scored 400.
2013 Aus tour....2 rank turners...but Chennai rank turner was high scoring.....Then you had Mohali high scoring track....Then Hyderabad had 500+ scores by us.
2013 WI tour...we scored lots
2015 SA....low scoring series
2016 NZ....high scoring series but we didn't capitalize...Kanpur was a 500 meets 400 track....Same with Indore...we did well in Indore but screwed up in Kanpur

With that being said, one of the reasons the average is so high is because foreign spinners don't do well in India which leads to us piling on runs. Pujara played a huge role in this period....stitching up a lot of partnerships......

Still India is one of the tougher places to bat (regardless of the stats)...but barring 5 rank turners from 2011....pitches not that much different. A bit easier than past Indian tracks...quite a bit easier than late 2000s tracks which were more high scoring.....

But still you have to bowl well to average fine here.

There was another stat that showed how many overs India bowled during harbhajan era and Ashwin era...and the difference was just 1 session.

So much for minefields....lol

But this is something I have been saying for a long time (without knowing about these stats). Barring a few tracks, its not that bad.

You have actually WATCH matches and observe to know these things....if you fall prey to perceptions and "he said, she said"...you will only get a warped look into the whole issue.
 
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AlizeeFan said:
Ashwin has been playing most of the matches in more batting friendly pitches than any other bowler does at home.

Take a look at the averages of all teams at home and Pakistan in UAE.

<table>
<thead><tr class="tableizer-firstrow"><th>Team</th><th>Span</th><th>Mat</th><th>Runs</th><th>Ave</th><th>SR</th><th>100</th></tr></thead><tbody>
<tr><td>Australia</td><td>2011-2016</td><td>27</td><td>16124</td><td>46.33</td><td>62.51</td><td>50</td></tr>
<tr><td>India</td><td>2011-2016</td><td>22</td><td>11046</td><td>37.82</td><td>54.26</td><td>25</td></tr>
<tr><td>Pakistan</td><td>2012-2015</td><td>16</td><td>9142</td><td>37.62</td><td>49.44</td><td>30</td></tr>
<tr><td>New Zealand</td><td>2012-2016</td><td>18</td><td>9603</td><td>37.07</td><td>55</td><td>22</td></tr>
<tr><td>South Africa</td><td>2011-2016</td><td>24</td><td>11537</td><td>36.62</td><td>52.31</td><td>31</td></tr>
<tr><td>England</td><td>2012-2016</td><td>34</td><td>17951</td><td>34.19</td><td>52.38</td><td>31</td></tr>
<tr><td>Bangladesh</td><td>2011-2015</td><td>16</td><td>8438</td><td>33.61</td><td>53.39</td><td>16</td></tr>
<tr><td>Sri Lanka</td><td>2012-2016</td><td>24</td><td>12307</td><td>30.61</td><td>50.55</td><td>27</td></tr>
<tr><td>West Indies</td><td>2012-2016</td><td>21</td><td>9246</td><td>29.16</td><td>48.43</td><td>15</td></tr>
<tr><td>Zimbabwe</td><td>2013-2016</td><td>7</td><td>3310</td><td>24.16</td><td>42.47</td><td>5</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
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So Aus has been super road by some distance. Then you have India, UAE, NZ and SA around the same level. Eng is slightly tougher, but not much different.

Taken together, SL & WI have been the toughest place to bat in recent years. You can say that, but there is one problem with looking at these stats and deriving such conclusions. WI has a weak batting line up and most averages are high not due to touring teams making lots of runs, it's mainly due to home teams making lots of runs. I am talking about trend here.
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
13 out of 39 tests.
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Only 9 , with 6 coming in Australia and bowling only 30 plus over in England on day 2 and 3 seaming pitch (picking up 3 wickets), one test in Johannesburg wicket which is graveyard for offspinner.
Overall he has played 4 away series, 2 in Australia, 1 in WI and 1 in South Africa. Perfoming in 2 and failing in 2 Australian one, where even Murli failed, he didn't played in Adelaide 2015 which might have done him good .
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
13 out of 39 tests.
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I think he has played too little number of games over all to folks to jump to any conclusion. 13 and 39 are not a big numbers in current era. Around 70-80 tests, picture will be a lot clearer because he would have played in all countries with a decent sample size.
 
Do you think Ashwin will do well in foreign conditions in future?

He's done well in India, Bangladesh, WI and Sri Lanka.

Do you think Ashwin will or can do well (say average under 32) in places like SA, England, NZ or even Australia?

Please providing reasons for what you think. :kakmal
 
cricketjoshila said:
Some people have problem appreciating anything Indian.How can the same posters who tried to downplay Tendulkar not do the same to an upcoming Indian cricketer.
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http://sports.ndtv.com/news/ravicha...himself-overseas-eas-prasanna-cricket-1473375

After Ravichandran Ashwin's stupendous performance in the recently concluded India-New Zealand Test series, legendary Indian off-spinner EAS Prasanna feels the off-spinner now needs to prove himself abroad.

Speaking to NDTV on Wednesday, Prasanna said the 30-year-old's performance in overseas conditions will now be the real test of his credentials.

"His batting capabilities is a value add, but Ashwin's bowling overseas will be the real test," Prasanna said.

The 76-year-old Prasanna, whose classic action and guile foxed the best of batsmen, heaped praise on Ashwin, terming him as the "most intelligent bowler" in the Indian ranks.

"Ashwin is the most intelligent bowler that we have now. His home performance will help improve his overseas credentials," Prasanna said.

Reacting to a question about the spin-friendly Indian tracks, Prasanna stated there was nothing wrong in taking advantage of home conditions.

"Our spinners bowled exceedingly well versus New Zealand. More than the pitches, foreign teams who came to India before were better equipped to play spin," said Prasanna, adding the current Kiwi batsmen were technically challenged.

Former Indian opener Aakash Chopra too sided with Prasanna's remarks, terming the pitches at Kanpur, Kolkata and Indore 'fair'.

"Pitches during the India-New Zealand series were quite fair. Indore was a good batting surface. The Kiwis didn't show any fight," Chopra said.

Riding on Ashwin's masterclass, India completed a 3-0 sweep against Kane Williamson's men.
The Tamil Nadu bowler bagged 27 wickets in the series, including a career best 7 for 59 in the second innings of the final Test.

However, veteran spinner Harbhajan Singh surprised cricket fans after he questioned the nature of pitches on offer.
Bhajji took to social micro-blogging site Twitter to take a dig at Ashwin's record-breaking performance.

The Punjab bowler also added that Anil Kumble and he would have gone on to take many more wickets, had they been provided with pitches like the one at Holkar Stadium.

Surprised at Harbhajan's comments, skipper Virat Kohli backed Ashwin and told reporters that spin bowling was a skill that needed more than just the assistance from the pitch.

http://sports.ndtv.com/news/ravicha...himself-overseas-eas-prasanna-cricket-1473375
 
Buffet said:
I think he has played too little number of games over all to folks to jump to any conclusion. 13 and 39 are not a big numbers in current era. Around 70-80 tests, picture will be a lot clearer because he would have played in all countries with a decent sample size.
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Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
13 out of 39 tests.
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9 tests....not 13.

6 in Aus...1 full innings in Eng and SA each.
 
Unlike Harbhajan who himself performed considerably poor outside India, EAS Prasanna averaged ~26 in Aus+NZ+England. ~29 if you include WI. #randomfacts
 
Buffet said:
So pretty much he has played only in Aus. I think he will be part of team in next round of all overseas tours for India.
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That is why his overseas criticism is a joke.

In Aus 2014, he bowled with poor pacers and still ended with a better SR than Swann in his famous 2010 Aus tour which Eng won. And he didnt play in the most spin friendly track in that series.

In Eng, he took 3/72 in the only full innings he played after India had collapsed to a low total. Oval. In the 2nd innings, odds were high that he would take a 5fer but we lost by an innings so no chance.

Joberg was a fiasco with 0/86 in 4th innings. Deserves full criticism for that.

Now he is light years ahead as a bowler.
 
Harbhajan's averages:

Away from home: 38.90
Australia: 73.22
NZ: 24.19 :O
England: 49.78
SA: 34
SL: 48.57
WI: 25.86

Not very bad barring Aus, England and a Sanga-Jaya-Samarweera equipped SL.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
That is why his overseas criticism is a joke.

In Aus 2014, he bowled with poor pacers and still ended with a better SR than Swann in his famous 2010 Aus tour which Eng won. And he didnt play in the most spin friendly track in that series.

In Eng, he took 3/72 in the only full innings he played after India had collapsed to a low total. Oval. In the 2nd innings, odds were high that he would take a 5fer but we lost by an innings so no chance.

Joberg was a fiasco with 0/86 in 4th innings. Deserves full criticism for that.

Now he is light years ahead as a bowler.
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Away performances are a thing still quite far away.

Let's see how he does on tracks that don't spin from day 1 or day 2 first. And tracks where even after day 3 or 4 the turn has to earned with good bowling.

We haven't seen him bowl on such surfaces e.g. the ones found in the UAE.
 
Hawkeye said:
Away performances are a thing still quite far away.

Let's see how he does on tracks that don't spin from day 1 or day 2 first. And tracks where even after day 3 or 4 the turn has to earned with good bowling.

We haven't seen him bowl on such surfaces e.g. the ones found in the UAE.
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He just did.

Indore. 500 meets 500 track. India scored 211/3 in day 4.

He took apart the Kiwis.

There are quite a few other instances too.

You just gotta look into his match data. Its there in cricinfo.
 
It's fair to say that Ashwin is yet to deliver overseas and can't be considered ATG or world class unless he delivers there.That is a valid criticism.

However, it's completely unfair to call him only a HTB and can't perform outside ASIA to save his life.
 
Ab Fan said:
It's fair to say that Ashwin is yet to deliver overseas and can't be considered ATG or world class unless he delivers there.That is a valid criticism.

However, it's completely unfair to call him only a HTB and can't perform outside ASIA to save his life.
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He's world class no doubt so I disagree there

But he's far off from being anywhere near an ATG

But def is on his way to become an Indian great if not one already
 
Ab Fan said:
It's fair to say that Ashwin is yet to deliver overseas and can't be considered ATG or world class unless he delivers there.That is a valid criticism.

However, it's completely unfair to call him only a HTB and can't perform outside ASIA to save his life.
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Nah, he is world class. He will make into every current team and that's world class in my opinion. ATG kind of thing is too early and folks should let him play another 30-40 tests before even talking about it.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
He just did.

Indore. 500 meets 500 track. India scored 211/3 in day 4.

He took apart the Kiwis.

There are quite a few other instances too.

You just gotta look into his match data. Its there in cricinfo.
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JattMaula said:
Bangaluru 2015. 70/4

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-south-africa-2015-16/engine/current/match/903605.html
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Not many instances, but still something going in his favor. So, I'd give him that.

He definitely has a shot at becoming an IND great - let's see where he ends up in 30-40 Test matches from now.

I really want to see him bowl against our Test lineup, but guess that won't happen in the next 10 years.
 
NauV said:
My friend . . . let's look at the facts in full then shall we?

Younis Khan averages 51 in England
Younis Khan averages 43 in Australia
Younis Khan averages 65 in New Zealand
Younis Khan averages 33 in South Africa

Younis Khan has played 63 away tests (by away I mean not in Pakistan and UAE) . . and averages 52

So let's not target legends of the game . .

Ashwin is a fantastic bowler . . Whoever questions that can go and look at his record
Ashwin hasn't performed well enough in England and Australia .. we can also look at that record

He averages 55 in Australia
He averages 34 in England
He has played 1 test match in South Africa where he didn't take a wicket
He hasn't played in New Zealand

But we all know that Ashwin has improved a lot in the last 2 years or so and there is every likelihood that he will do well when he travels to those countries again . .

But for now . . these are the facts . .
Click to expand...

Great post.

Still awaiting a reply to it. :)
 
Best spinner in the world as well as the best Test all-rounder. ATG material.

It's traditional for some people to cry, but the fact is that Ashwin is simply terrific and what makes him more special is the fact that he has a squeaky clean action as well and is not relying on chucking.

Easily the best off-spinner since Murali, if we ignore the fact that Murali is the father of chucking.

Has overtaken Swann now. Can't consider other chuckers.
 
Another Kumble in making. King at home on suspicious pitches and rubbish outside Asia plus with a very faulty action.
 
Bilal7 said:
"Ashwin will definitely do well in South Africa and England next time he tours because he's currently bowling so well in India" - Ashwin supporters.
Click to expand...

Haha man give up now. I know you suffered a double blow (both Ashwin and Kohli performed), triple if you add India moving to number 1 :) but thats ok, happens.

Ashwin will have bad days (and lots of them) and those will be a better occasion to bash him up.
 
NauV said:
My friend . . . let's look at the facts in full then shall we?

Younis Khan averages 51 in England
Younis Khan averages 43 in Australia
Younis Khan averages 65 in New Zealand
Younis Khan averages 33 in South Africa

Younis Khan has played 63 away tests (by away I mean not in Pakistan and UAE) . . and averages 52

So let's not target legends of the game . .

Ashwin is a fantastic bowler . . Whoever questions that can go and look at his record
Ashwin hasn't performed well enough in England and Australia .. we can also look at that record

He averages 55 in Australia
He averages 34 in England
He has played 1 test match in South Africa where he didn't take a wicket
He hasn't played in New Zealand

But we all know that Ashwin has improved a lot in the last 2 years or so and there is every likelihood that he will do well when he travels to those countries again . .

But for now . . these are the facts . .
Click to expand...

Only difference being that Younis' record read something like

35 in England
19 in South Africa and
23 in the West Indies in the first five years of his career.

Younis improved his average in England and to some extent in the other countries in his successive tours. Hope you get the point.
 
[MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION]

No response to my Post # 92 ?


Mamoon said:
Best spinner in the world as well as the best Test all-rounder. ATG material.

It's traditional for some people to cry, but the fact is that Ashwin is simply terrific and what makes him more special is the fact that he has a squeaky clean action as well and is not relying on chucking.

Easily the best off-spinner since Murali, if we ignore the fact that Murali is the father of chucking.

Has overtaken Swann now. Can't consider other chuckers.
Click to expand...

Even if you ignore the bowling actions aspect Ashwin still beats those players in ASIA and by a long margin (see the stats I posted earlier (copied below)

Only Waqar Younis has a better strike rate ! (which is a stunning stat BTW) and will probably become the first guy to avg below 20 in ASIA . Even Jim Laker who had the benefit of bowling on a lot of Wet Wkts does not have a strike rate below 50.

Tusker said:
Stats for ALL Bowlers in Asia:

Sorted By Avg:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...ickets;size=100;template=results;type=bowling


Sorted By Strike Rate:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...ickets;size=100;template=results;type=bowling

If this doesn’t prove how good he is then nothing else will.

Far ahead of Warne , Murali, Kumble and Herath in Asia. He has good chance to be the only one to Avg under 20 in Asia which is remarkable.
Click to expand...
 
After this record It will be really hard for Ashwin to reach these 'Fastest to X00 wickets' records.After his 300th wicket Murali became a real freak & reached his 400,500 wickets really fast.
 
Saviour of the old ball, admirer of the cracks, Legend of the dust bowls. All hail the Lord of doctored pitches.
 
A fine achievement and a decent player- given his allrounder ability.

He belongs above Shastri & below Dev, second on India's allrounder list.

As a spinner, he may just scrape top 5- but Kumble, Prasanna & Bedi were categorically better spinners.
 
wrongun said:
A fine achievement and a decent player- given his allrounder ability.

He belongs above Shastri & below Dev, second on India's allrounder list.

As a spinner, he may just scrape top 5- but Kumble, Prasanna & Bedi were categorically better spinners.
Click to expand...

Chandra was the greatest Indian spinner of all time
 
A true champion in India, Sri Lanka, West Indies and Bangladesh. A failure in Australia, England, South Africa and New Zealand (has he played a test there?).

Pretty much the new coming of Anil Kumble.
 
He's one of the best today in terms of what he brings to the team. More than decent bat, great spinner in helpful conditions and decent cricketing brain. Congrats to a truly B+ player. :srini
 
Great achievement by a very good bowler.I think county stint might have helped him as his recent performance was one of his best on flat pitch.
2018-2019 overseas tours will decide Ashwin legacy
 
Wouldn’t be surprised if he finishes his test career with 400 wickets @ ~ 25 and 4000 runs @ ~ 30. He only just turned 31 so is young enough to play for another 5 or so years.
 
Gabbar Singh said:
Wouldn’t be surprised if he finishes his test career with 400 wickets @ ~ 25 and 4000 runs @ ~ 30. He only just turned 31 so is young enough to play for another 5 or so years.
Click to expand...

Only 400?

I will be disappointed if he isnt atleast 4th in the list of test wicket takers.
 
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