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Ravichandran Ashwin or Yasir Shah - Who is the better bowler?

Saj said:
ok guys, don't turn this into an India versus Pakistan slanging match.

Discuss their relative strengths and weaknesses as bowlers and add your reasons why you think one is better than the other.
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Its is an unfair comparison, both are good bowlers one is offie and the other leggie. Ashwin is btter batsman, Yasir is better fielder and being a leg spinner I would take him any day. That does not mean Ashwin is bad its just that I would rather take variety over off break.
 
Yasir Shah is the better bowler quite easily. Bowls on some really ugly, flat pitches in the UAE and has still managed to equal a 200 year old test cricket record. Shah was also successful in England and in the D/N match that he played.

Ashwin is doing some great things in India but he's done nothing worth mentioning outside of Asia. Unless he rectifies that, he cannot be called a better spinner than Yasir who is thriving in all conditions.

Even taking their batting into account, I'd still pick Yasir if I was looking for a spinner. Ashwin will get the second spinner spot though, he's a good player himself.
 
Bilal7 said:
Yasir Shah is the better bowler quite easily. Bowls on some really ugly, flat pitches in the UAE and has still managed to equal a 200 year old test cricket record. Shah was also successful in England and in the D/N match that he played.

Ashwin is doing some great things in India but he's done nothing worth mentioning outside of Asia. Unless he rectifies that, he cannot be called a better spinner than Yasir who is thriving in all conditions.

Even taking their batting into account, I'd still pick Yasir if I was looking for a spinner. Ashwin will get the second spinner spot though, he's a good player himself.
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Well in fairness, Ashwin was only 8 wickets/ or 1.5 Test short of that record himself. And if its about who is better now, well, I don't think it is clear cut. But put it this way, even with Ashwin's recent form, if I were touring England or Australia or New Zealand I'd take Yasir.
 
New Yorker said:
Well in fairness, Ashwin was only 8 wickets/ or 1.5 Test short of that record himself. And if its about who is better now, well, I don't think it is clear cut. But put it this way, even with Ashwin's recent form, if I were touring England or Australia or New Zealand I'd take Yasir.
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Shah playing his home games in the UAE is what makes that record quite impressive. Of course, it's not like Shah has played four or five series away from Asia at this point, but bowling in the UAE is definitely not as easy as bowling in India.

I'd take Yasir in any country, except maybe India.
 
Yasir is padding his stats against WI, nothing wrong with that. It's what Ashwin does at home with his spinning tracks.
 
I think that yasir's performance against England in England shouldn't be given much importance since current bunch of English batters r some of the worst players of spin bowling.


We all saw how a rookie like Miraz from Bangla ran through their whole batting lineup. When a rookie with little to no spin and with a bit of drift can do this to England then a good established bowler like yasir is expected to do well against poms.



That's why I believe that yasir had a poor England tour, at least his average of 40 in England will suggest that. I expected him to do a lot better against this English line up who don't even know how to put bat on ball against a spinning delivery.
 
WhenSultansBowled said:
2 things I wanted to add to previous post (can't edit):

1. I want to see Yasir bowl in a proper rank-turner. The kind India prepares...

2. Ashwin's action must be checked outside India. (Innocent until guilty and all that but I've got a feeling if Harbhajan wasn't ever reported, no umpire will dare reporting Ashwin)
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Harbhajan was reported twice, once in 1999 and then in 2005. He went through remedial action correction in England and Australia and was then cleared.

Pragyan Ojha was banned by the BCCI itself for suspect action. He had a good series against England mind you. But was bowling with full sleeves and his action came under scrutiny and was ultimately banned after guys like Bishen Singh Bedi criticised Ojha's action a lot publicly, the guy doesn't care whether he is Indian or not. He will talk straightforward that the bowler is chucking irrespective of his nationality or stature (he still hasn't finished about Murali even after his retirement). You can rest assured Bedi won't be silent on Ashwin if he has a suspect action, especially when he is breaking his own records.
 
Bilal7 said:
Yasir Shah is the better bowler quite easily. Bowls on some really ugly, flat pitches in the UAE and has still managed to equal a 200 year old test cricket record. Shah was also successful in England and in the D/N match that he played.
.
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But if you want to discredit Pak player, thenyou can always discredit Younis for piling runs on dead UAE tracks, and at the same time you can dismiss Shah, as if he has been getting wkts on landmines in UAE!
 
Yasir better bowler but Ashwin easily better cricketer for me.. In fact Ashwin has the potential to suppress Richie Benaud as a spin all-rounder.

Only time will tell
 
Before this WI series, both Ind and Pakistan had played 13 tests in India and UAE respectively.

While Pakistan which is considered better batting line up by most of the posters here (Younis and Misbah will be taken over any Indian batsmen any day), India has managed to cross 450 6 times in those 13 tests while Pakistan has done it only 4 times.

India has been bowled out below 200 only once, Pakistan has been bowled out below 200 thrice. So much for flat pitches and extremely spin friendly conditions.
 
Chrish said:
Yasir better bowler but Ashwin easily better cricketer for me.. In fact Ashwin has the potential to suppress Richie Benaud as a spin all-rounder.

Only time will tell
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Good point. But please bare in mind Yasir is a phenomenal fielder and his attitude is very much 'Australianesque' when he plays. This also helps his batting, he can certainly bat and has the potential to become better.
 
Use this thread to discuss their skill-level and ability. Don't use this thread to call either bowler a chucker. Thanks.
 
Yas leaked a lot of runs against WI, but the thing is the pitches are slow, hard to bowl on it, an attacking bowler will definitely leak runs on such pitches, against any opposition.

Even if Ashwin had bowled on such pitches, either he would have been attacking, would have leaked runs plus got wickets as well, or would have been economical only, like Zulfiqar Babar, no other way out, it's hard to be economical and wicket taker at the same time on such pitches.
 
Someguy said:
Im surprised indians here are not claiming ashwin to be a genuine alrounded like they do in other posts. Lol. Do they know what an alrounder is? If you can hold a bat ur an alrounder according to indian definition. Lol so sir imran khan, gary sobers, abdul razzaq, and kallis are in the same category as Ashwin as genuine alrounders. I mean in that case mcgrath was also a genuine alrounder.
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Lol here's only discuss their bowling prowess only. as an overall package Aswin simply ahead of Shah!
 
street cricketer said:
I didn't quite get why you posed the question too..:))

But anytime more than happy to push the Nadal agenda.:msd
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Had a look at [MENTION=2016]Rana[/MENTION]'s initial post and he said we'll only find out who's the better of the two if they face off in a Test match.

Federer for me; majors > h2h.
 
Haroon786 said:
Had a look at [MENTION=2016]Rana[/MENTION]'s initial post and he said we'll only find out who's the better of the two if they face off in a Test match.

Federer for me; majors > h2h.
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Not going to derail the thread.

So will try to be short.

H2H > majors:msd
 
Is R Ashwin a Spin Track Bully ?

We have seen Ashwin look pretty ineffective on a flat Rajkot track after demolishing NZ on turners. This is playing very much like a UAE Pitch with a bit extra for the pacers. it also highlights how good of a job Yasir does carrying our weak bowling attack on UAE Featherbeds.
 
Yes. He is a spin track bully until proven otherwise.

But I am sorry. I don't buy into the whole Yasir has been performing in such pitches all day long theory when other spinners have done decent there too and considering both Ash and Yasir have identical records almost in every common ground they played.

This is what happened to Yasir on a super patta against Bangladesh

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/858493.html

0/123 at 4.1 rpo

Same in England. When he clicked, he was legendary. When he didn't, he averaged 150 in tough pitches.

--

Ashwin was absolutely rubbish this test and no amount of pitch criticism can deflect from that.

Just putting things in perspective though.
 
On this pitch, Yasir would have defo done way better.

He is very good against lefties and he would have used the areas outside lefties to bring the ball in and slowly prize out wickets. Against righties he might have struggled here but overall would have ended up with a hard fought 5fer.
 
UAE tracks are worse than this pitch with less bounce and carry. Jadeja's accuracy trumps Ashwin here.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
On this pitch, Yasir would have defo done way better.

He is very good against lefties and he would have used the areas outside lefties to bring the ball in and slowly prize out wickets. Against righties he might have struggled here but overall would have ended up with a hard fought 5fer.
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That is because he does it all the time in the UAE and has a lot of patience and a never-say-die attitude.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Yes. He is a spin track bully until proven otherwise.

But I am sorry. I don't buy into the whole Yasir has been performing in such pitches all day long theory when other spinners have done decent there too and considering both Ash and Yasir have identical records almost in every common ground they played.

This is what happened to Yasir on a super patta against Bangladesh

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/858493.html

0/123 at 4.1 rpo

Same in England. When he clicked, he was legendary. When he didn't, he averaged 150 in tough pitches.

--

Ashwin was absolutely rubbish this test and no amount of pitch criticism can deflect from that.

Just putting things in perspective though.
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Lords was flat, NZ and AUS will be pretty flat to
 
@ SIF , Ashwin has 200 odd Test wickets and a wealth of experience ; no excuses
 
shaz619 said:
Lords was flat, NZ and AUS will be pretty flat to
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Lords and Oval was flat but aided spin (a bit).

Other 2 grounds were much harder.

Ashwin bowled in Oval (didn't play in Lords) and did very well.

I am talking about the perception and comparison using like to like metrics.
 
[MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION] why do u think Ashwin has struggled in this match.
 
shaz619 said:
@ SIF , Ashwin has 200 odd Test wickets and a wealth of experience ; no excuses
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Who said there are excuses bro?

But this isn't a first time a top level spinner is going for 2/150 odd in Asia and won't be the last time. There is a mile long list of good Asian spinners with horror matches.

Happens man.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Lords and Oval was flat but aided spin (a bit).

Other 2 grounds were much harder.

Ashwin bowled in Oval (didn't play in Lords) and did very well.

I am talking about the perception and comparison using like to like metrics.
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What did he get at the oval
 
RA is more HTB than YS. And both are not great outside asia. Don't rate any of them 'going to be ATG'.
 
in Indian conditions Ashwin does have a much better bowling attack to sustain the pressure and help him. Jadeja and Mishra are a lot better than Babar and Nawaz. Yasir is often the lone warrior for us since our pacers are hit and miss. if Ashwin doesnt fire u still have Jadeja as a matchwinner in home conditions
. Ashwin getting rested away from.home does nothing to enhance his reputation.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Who said there are excuses bro?

But this isn't a first time a top level spinner is going for 2/150 odd in Asia and won't be the last time. There is a mile long list of good Asian spinners with horror matches.

Happens man.
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I guess so, ive not watched the game is the wicket a super phatta?
 
Adil_94 said:
in Indian conditions Ashwin does have a much better bowling attack to sustain the pressure and help him. Jadeja and Mishra are a lot better than Babar and Nawaz. Yasir is often the lone warrior for us since our pacers are hit and miss. if Ashwin doesnt fire u still have Jadeja as a matchwinner in home conditions
. Ashwin getting rested away from.home does nothing to enhance his reputation.
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I actually think Mishra could be better :yk I'd always select him home or away
 
Adil_94 said:
[MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION] why do u think Ashwin has struggled in this match.
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If you check my post in this thread about his strengths and weaknesses...I mention 2 aspects which are Ashwin's weakness which could cancel out all his strengths:

1. Rhythm - When he used to focus on a flatter trajectory, its easier to lock in and bowl in the same areas. Getting into rhythm is much easier. But when you want to flight more and do more stuff (which is what will get you wickets)...you need to have more control. Losing rhythm would impact you more. Ashwin in the past never had issues of rhythm. He was either good on a pitch or bad. But now, if you watch the spells he bowled in Antigua and compare it with spells where he lost rhythm, you will see a day and night difference.

You can't flight well.
You can't land on good length. Will be touch short or touch full.

2. Lack of body to impart spin - In easier spin conditions, you don't need body to impart spin. In tougher spin conditions, you need body to impart spin. Its hard work. Ashwin's level of spin on this pitch was disappointing. He sometimes imparts more body and gets the ball to spin...sometimes not so much. This is an area which he needs to work on.

Basically these were the only 2 weaknesses I listed out a week back and those 2 were the reason why he wasn't able to breakthrough here.

When the pitch turns, your weaknesses get hidden. When it doesn't, it starts showing up more often.
 
Adil_94 said:
in Indian conditions Ashwin does have a much better bowling attack to sustain the pressure and help him. Jadeja and Mishra are a lot better than Babar and Nawaz. Yasir is often the lone warrior for us since our pacers are hit and miss. if Ashwin doesnt fire u still have Jadeja as a matchwinner in home conditions
. Ashwin getting rested away from.home does nothing to enhance his reputation.
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That gets down played significantly, we're going to run Yasir into the ground; he's our sprearhead in all conditions. Would be nice for him to get support, asghar needs to come in
 
i dont mean to say Yasir has been performing all the time in phattas. But this Rajkot tracks is very much like a UAE track not the turners India normally have. What im trying to say is that doing well on Indian spin tracks is nowhere near as hard as doing well on UAE roads which only start spinning after Day 4/5 if youre lucky. If India had more of the mid 2000 roads they used to put up Ashwins stats wouldnt be as good. Im not saying its bad that India make turners good for them turners are exciting as well but they do seriously skew a spinner stats.
 
shaz619 said:
I guess so, ive not watched the game is the wicket a super phatta?
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It may or may not be a patta from now on. Time will tell.

But it was a hard (but not impossible) pitch to bowl on for Day 1 and 2. At lunch, Ashwin went at 2/35 and then it was downhill all the way.

You can say this was like one of those late 00s Indian tracks which were super high scoring draws/wins due to scoreboard pressure.

Pacers had more chances here but with shelled catches...no such luck.

shaz619 said:
I actually think Mishra could be better :yk I'd always select him home or away
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You haven't watched Mishra in tests then. Shockingly bad he is when it doesn't turn. Haha.
 
Adijazz1706 said:
UAE tracks are worse than this pitch with less bounce and carry. Jadeja's accuracy trumps Ashwin here.
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Therein lies its strength and weakness.

A push in UAE won't get you a 4 but it will in India.

UAE pitches are easier to survive but harder to score runs. In India, if the pitch is easier to survive, all hell breaks loose as run scoring becomes too easy.

In UAE, you can play on the patience of batsmen. In India, its much much harder to do on such pitches. Accuracy needs to be Jaddu level.

And if you are not that accurate and don't bowl well....you say what happ to the other 2 spinners.

Adijazz1706 said:
That is because he does it all the time in the UAE and has a lot of patience and a never-say-die attitude.
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True.....I admire that in him.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
It may or may not be a patta from now on. Time will tell.

But it was a hard (but not impossible) pitch to bowl on for Day 1 and 2. At lunch, Ashwin went at 2/35 and then it was downhill all the way.

You can say this was like one of those late 00s Indian tracks which were super high scoring draws/wins due to scoreboard pressure.

Pacers had more chances here but with shelled catches...no such luck.



You haven't watched Mishra in tests then. Shockingly bad he is when it doesn't turn. Haha.
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Am a member of the leg spinners union, I always back me leggy; as the VC captain for the 2nd XI in the premier league in brum whenever I get a chance to lead I use about 3 in my bowling attack irrespective of conditions; their stats are horrible, but we win games :afridi there's me who only bowls googlies and toppies, there's another guy who is effective at the leg break can't bowl anything else and then we have a guy who's wonderful at the flipper; together we are the complete leg spinner :yk
 
Yasir has been ahead from the moment he became our main spinner. The question should be how far ahead of Ashwin he is and success in New Zealand and Australia wil put him in a different league.
 
shaz619 said:
Am a member of the leg spinners union, I always back me leggy; as the VC captain for the 2nd XI in the premier league in brum whenever I get a chance to lead I use about 3 in my bowling attack irrespective of conditions; their stats are horrible, but we win games :afridi there's me who only bowls googlies and toppies, there's another guy who is effective at the leg break can't bowl anything else and then we have a guy who's wonderful at the flipper; together we are the complete leg spinner :yk
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Haha...genius.
 
Next Question, who is better on flat pitches; Yasir or Ashwin? and who has done better?
 
It's a bit like saying Amir is a green track bully based on his performances on the UAE dross.

Ashwin bowled to very good players on a very flat track, certainly the flattest I've seen in India in the last 4 years or so. The grassy patches on the pitch only made the job more difficult for the spinners. He deceived the inexperienced batsmen Haseeb and Duckett in the air. But Root, Moeen et al were too good on a pretty placid wicket. I also thought he got flustered a bit by the batsmen attacking him. Anyway you can't judge a bowler based on one innings. He got a 5 fer when the pitch was good for batting against the kiwis at Indore.

Anyway I think this pitch was more supportive for the pacers in the first 2 days as they got some good bounce and on hindsight, India should have perhaps selected Ishant instead of Mishra in this match. They were probably misled by the cracks too. The pitch has started wearing down and I think it will assist the spinners more in the last 3 days. Moeen and Rashid already achieved some good turn late near the end today. I think it will break down and will get more difficult to bat hereafter especially in the last 2 days.
 
street cricketer said:
It's a bit like saying Amir is a green track bully based on his performances on the UAE dross.

Ashwin bowled to very good players on a very flat track, certainly the flattest I've seen in India in the last 4 years or so. The grassy patches on the pitch only made the job more difficult for the spinners. He deceived the inexperienced batsmen Haseeb and Duckett in the air. But Root, Moeen et al were too good on a pretty placid wicket. I also thought he got flustered a bit by the batsmen attacking him. Anyway you can't judge a bowler based on one innings. He got a 5 fer when the pitch was good for batting against the kiwis at Indore.

Anyway I think this pitch was more supportive for the pacers in the first 2 days as they got some good bounce and on hindsight, India should have perhaps selected Ishant instead of Mishra in this match. They were probably misled by the cracks too. The pitch has started wearing down and I think it will assist the spinners more in the last 3 days. Moeen and Rashid already achieved some good turn late near the end today. I think it will break down and will get more difficult to bat hereafter especially in the last 2 days.
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Or like saying Kohli is only effective on pitches with no lateral movement in India but we know that's not true because he even thrived on the Aussie phattas
 
shaz619 said:
Next Question, who is better on flat pitches; Yasir or Ashwin? and who has done better?
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Also, who is the bigger match winner and can win games singlehandedly irrespective of support bowlers?
 
If you were either an Ashwin or a Yasir would you rather bowl in India or a UAE?
 
shaz619 said:
Or like saying Kohli is only effective on pitches with no lateral movement in India but we know that's not true because he even thrived on the Aussie phattas
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Lol. See what you did there.

No one calls Amir better than Rabada or Starc because as someone pointed out, Amir hasn't done much in hostile conditions. So why can't the Indians on here swallow their pride and admit that Shah, who has a 10-fer in England and bowls on some disgusting pitches in the UAE, is thr superior spinner?
 
Further, as an Ashwin or Yasir would you prefer support bowlers from India or Pakistan in either the UAE or India
 
Bilal7 said:
Lol. See what you did there.

No one calls Amir better than Rabada or Starc because as someone pointed out, Amir hasn't done much in hostile conditions. So why can't the Indians on here swallow their pride and admit that Shah, who has a 10-fer in England and bowls on some disgusting pitches in the UAE, is thr superior spinner?
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Exactly, Amir is a figment of their imagination when it comes to his prowess. They can't because Ashwin is Indian and Yasir is Pakistani basically
 
And the comparison with Yasir on UAE tracks based on this one innings is moot. Pakistan have hardly lost the toss in the UAE if ever and Yasir has only once bowled first at the UAE in his entire career. And the stats read similar to Ashwin's this match - 40 odd overs for 2 wickets.

A lot of people don't realise the difference between bowling first on a wicket and last on a wicket and are just going by raw numbers. The nature of any cricket wicket, particularly asian ones, change gradually over the course of a match and it starts from being unhelpful to the spinners and becomes progressively helpful for them as it breaks down. You just can't brand a wicket "flat" for an entire test match as it changes over the course of a match. Even Yasir averages 48 bowling in the first innings as opposed to 19 bowling last, which is quite understandable if you take into consideration the difference in conditions over the course of a match.
 
street cricketer said:
And the comparison with Yasir on UAE tracks based on this one innings is moot. Pakistan have hardly lost the toss in the UAE if ever and Yasir has only once bowled first at the UAE in his entire career. And the stats read similar to Ashwin's this match - 40 odd overs for 2 wickets.

A lot of people don't realise the difference between bowling first on a wicket and last on a wicket and are just going by raw numbers. The nature of any cricket wicket, particularly asian ones, change gradually over the course of a match and it starts from being unhelpful to the spinners and becomes progressively helpful for them as it breaks down. You just can't brand a wicket "flat" for an entire test match as it changes over the course of a match. Even Yasir averages 48 bowling in the first innings as opposed to 19 bowling last, which is quite understandable if you take into consideration the difference in conditions over the course of a match.
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Oh cry me a river @ the toss, you're really clutching at straws now
 
I think both Ashwin and Yasir struggle on flat wickets. That said, if I were to pick one, I would pick Yasir because he has that skiddy pace that can trouble the batsman which I don't think many offies can have. Also he bowls a tighter line always being at the stumps, so he will go for less runs even if he doesn't pick wickets.

But I think I have said that already earlier in this thread.
 
street cricketer said:
I think both Ashwin and Yasir struggle on flat wickets. That said, if I were to pick one, I would pick Yasir because he has that skiddy pace that can trouble the batsman which I don't think many offies can have. Also he bowls a tighter line always being at the stumps, so he will go for less runs even if he doesn't pick wickets.

But I think I have said that already earlier in this thread.
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Stop sugar coating with this "both struggle" rubbish to hide Ashwins inability on flat decks in comparison to Yasir, has your hero won you any games singlehandedly as the spearhead with extra pressure and lack of support on a wicket such as Lords?

Yasir is going to be better even then that fake spinner Anil Kumble who was really a medium pacer :yk2
 
anindo said:
Here's Warne on a flat wicket: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63795.html

42-4-147-0 , bowling in the second innings. (a match in which Australia got bowled out for 233 in the first innings)

Surely Yasir Shah would have done better and hence is the superior spinner and hence by extending that logic is the greatest spinner of all time.
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Lets extend your logic further, as Ashwin messed up on a "super phatta" allegedly he too will end up as the greatest spinner of all time given how Warne also failed on a super phatta
 
Warne proved over the course of his career that he can bowl outside his comfort zone. Shah has already shown that in his short career thus far. The three world-class spinners preceding Shah and Ashwin - Ajmal, Swann and Herath - showed that they could bowl outside their comfort zone. Ashwin hasn't and by virtue of that, cannot be rated higher than any of them.
 
^ Ashwin is a spin track bully.

On turning tracks, he is better than Yasir.

Ashwin easily outbowled Herath on Lankan pitches. Ashwin did better than Yasir against WI. Though Ahsiwn and Yasir played WI at different locations. Pitches in WI had slow turn and the pitch itself was kind of slow.

Yasir had 1 excellent game in England, 1 good Test and 2 mediocre ones if I remember. Even Yasir looked pedestrian when the pitch became flat in England.

This being said, Ashwin has to improve his record overseas. Have a feeling he will destroy Aus next time India tours Aus.

Ashwin did not play much in England and his record in SA is atrocious. Have to improve massively there.
 
Didn't watched too much of yasir shah yet so have only less idea about what kind he is

About aswin he is a typical minnow basher who's perfo's totaly depends up on the pitch quality

I havn't seen any quality batsmen's gets struggled against him on non friendly spin tracks
 
Protea Fan said:
Didn't watched too much of yasir shah yet so have only less idea about what kind he is

About aswin he is a typical minnow basher who's perfo's totaly depends up on the pitch quality

I havn't seen any quality batsmen's gets struggled against him on non friendly spin tracks
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Sangakkara had no answer for Ashwin. The Lankan tracks were sporting ones. Not rank turners. Those tracks had something for everyone.

When you say non spin friendly tracks, you meant flat tracks?
 
Below is the performance of Yasir Shah on flat track in 2nd Test between England and Pak recently.

1st innings Yasir
54 - 0 - 213 - 1

2nd Innings
9 - 0 - 53 - 0

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-pakistan-2016/engine/match/913643.html

Now lets look at the 3rd Test. Another pitch which provided no assistance for spinners.

Yasir 1st innings.
27 - 3- 64 - 1

Yasir 2nd Innings.
43 - 3 - 172 - 2

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-pakistan-2016/engine/match/913645.html

Yasir performed very well on surfaces that were more in his favor.

So all this knocking on Ashwin saying he needs turners to perform needs to be put to rest. Every spinner struggles when the conditions do not favor them.
 
No matter how much Indians try to justify it, most of the neutral observers will always rate Yasir higher than Ashwin.

Sorry, but that is true.
 
Syed1 said:
No matter how much Indians try to justify it, most of the neutral observers will always rate Yasir higher than Ashwin.

Sorry, but that is true.
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I too rate Yasir higher. Leggies are better match winners. A difficult art with better rewards.

Yasir is still better than Ashwin as Yasir did win a couple of Tests for Pak in England.

But degrading Ashwin as someone who only bowls well on spin friendly surfaces is unfair. Even Yasir had some terrible stats on surfaces that did not help him.

To me, I will pick Yasir on a flat track or tracks that offer very slow spin. Yasir always gets batsmen LBW even if the ball is not turning.

I will pick Ashwin on a turning track. His loop/dip and variations are too much to handle when the ball turns.

Overall as a player, I will pick Ashwin as he is valuable with the bat too.
 
troodon said:
Sangakkara had no answer for Ashwin. The Lankan tracks were sporting ones. Not rank turners. Those tracks had something for everyone.

When you say non spin friendly tracks, you meant flat tracks?
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non spin friendly tracks means pitches that are less favourable to spinners

May be he did occasionally well against some players on but he is an average bowler

all these hypes around him are wildly unreasonable....he is lethal only if the pitch really suits him,as simle as that
 
Yasir has bowled 90 percent of his games on pitches like ashwin encountered here on first 2 days. If the indian wicket is not a dustbowl in the first place it breaks up much quicker than a uae pitch too.
Ashwin can still win this game if india bat well but it is reliant on the pitch breaking badly day 4 n 5
 
Protea Fan said:
non spin friendly tracks means pitches that are less favourable to spinners

May be he did occasionally well against some players on but he is an average bowler

all these hypes around him are wildly unreasonable....he is lethal only if the pitch really suits him,as simle as that
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Did the pitches in WI suit him? Not really. They offered slow turn and sometimes the pitch went super flat. Yet Ashwin ended up with bucket load of wickets there too while Bishoo who did so well in UAE struggled there.

Why did Ashwin pick up so many wickets against Kiwis while Santner who is also a top class spinner struggled? The current Indian Test team are not great players of spin anymore. Yet Santner, Sodhi struggled to get wickets and they toiled.

Yes, Ashwin is not in the league of Warne or Murali. But who is?

Why people rate Ashwin is because he is playing in an era which has very few quality spinners. Outside of Yasir, there are no spinners who can be called world class.
 
troodon said:
Did the pitches in WI suit him? Not really. They offered slow turn and sometimes the pitch went super flat. Yet Ashwin ended up with bucket load of wickets there too while Bishoo who did so well in UAE struggled there.

Why did Ashwin pick up so many wickets against Kiwis while Santner who is also a top class spinner struggled? The current Indian Test team are not great players of spin anymore. Yet Santner, Sodhi struggled to get wickets and they toiled.

Yes, Ashwin is not in the league of Warne or Murali. But who is?

Why people rate Ashwin is because he is playing in an era which has very few quality spinners. Outside of Yasir, there are no spinners who can be called world class.
Click to expand...

That WI team are a bundle of medicore players as far as in my memory

What i trying to say even from my first post is he only clicks against minnows and spinnng wickets and still sticking on it.for exp i don't see quality spin players in the likes of abd,amla,cook or kp getting troubled by him if not in a sqaure turner.Yea he rattled williomson in rank turners then on very next match he got vanquished by a delectable joe root thats sumps his carrier


Yea santer bowled well out their but he was a defensive bowler has got very much limitations n i have no problem comparing aswhin with santer,sodhi or bishoo becs all of them are par below him
 
Both are very good spinners. At the moment, Yasir is a bit better bowler but Ashwin is a far better cricketer due to his batting.
 
Protea Fan said:
That WI team are a bundle of medicore players as far as in my memory

What i trying to say even from my first post is he only clicks against minnows and spinnng wickets and still sticking on it.for exp i don't see quality spin players in the likes of abd,amla,cook or kp getting troubled by him if not in a sqaure turner.Yea he rattled williomson in rank turners then on very next match he got vanquished by a delectable joe root thats sumps his carrier


Yea santer bowled well out their but he was a defensive bowler has got very much limitations n i have no problem comparing aswhin with santer,sodhi or bishoo becs all of them are par below him
Click to expand...

So who are world class spinners according to you currently?
 
troodon said:
I too rate Yasir higher. Leggies are better match winners. A difficult art with better rewards.

Yasir is still better than Ashwin as Yasir did win a couple of Tests for Pak in England.

But degrading Ashwin as someone who only bowls well on spin friendly surfaces is unfair. Even Yasir had some terrible stats on surfaces that did not help him.

To me, I will pick Yasir on a flat track or tracks that offer very slow spin. Yasir always gets batsmen LBW even if the ball is not turning.

I will pick Ashwin on a turning track. His loop/dip and variations are too much to handle when the ball turns.

Overall as a player, I will pick Ashwin as he is valuable with the bat too.
Click to expand...

That is a correct assessment.

In my best test 11 of current players, I would have both Ashwin and Yasir.
 
Anyone can use statistics to their own advantage but I'm sure most people will agree that Yasir is a more accurate bowler and someone who has a better chance of picking up wickets on flat tracks.

This is evident from their actions. Yasir puts so much more into the ball as he runs in and hits the crease a lot harder. Ashwin is a high-arm offie who doesn't put as much effort into the ball which is necessary on flat wickets. If Ash can use his body a bit more he will become an extremely tough spinner.

Knowing Ash, he is always learning so expect him to develop his bowling on flat tracks by using more body, bowling at a quicker pace and pitching within the stumps more often on flat tracks. This will make him a complete bowler.

The opposite is what Yasir needs to work on. On more spin-bowling friendly wickets, he needs to learn to loop the ball more like Warne and slow it up. Sent it higher and slower to get that dip and quick turn out of the rough areas.

They both have aspects they can improve on but at the moment, i think overall batsmen are probably more fearful of Yasir because he can pick up a wicket any time, keeps going, keeps attacking stumps so pressure is always there on batsmen.
 
ashwin has been exposed ......he need assistance from the wicket.then he is more dangerous than yasir...yasir never had that poor figures in asia...
 
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