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Ravichandran Ashwin or Yasir Shah - Who is the better bowler?

DRsohail said:
actually he was poor agianst nz in that 3rd test at sharjah i think but his figure were not that much worse.. i like ashwin but will definitely rate yasir shah higher....
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That's ok mate.

Whole world rates Yasir higher which is fair enough. He has more rights anyways.

Bad games happens to all. There were some true horror games by Kumble, Bhajji, Murali, Warne, etc.

Its not the figures which matter but quality of bowling which was bad in this game by Ash.

Just 2 tests back, on a seamer friendly pitch he put India to victory with proper line and lengths.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
That's ok mate.

Whole world rates Yasir higher which is fair enough. He has more rights anyways.

Bad games happens to all. There were some true horror games by Kumble, Bhajji, Murali, Warne, etc.

Its not the figures which matter but quality of bowling which was bad in this game by Ash.

Just 2 tests back, on a seamer friendly pitch he put India to victory with proper line and lengths.
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yess.... it was my view ,...u know better ....
 
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yasir. i dont particularly rate ashwin as a bowler and pretty sure i never will
 
majiz said:
yasir. i dont particularly rate ashwin as a bowler and pretty sure i never will
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Why, even if he does bowl on tracks that aid spin the most, you still have to be good to average only 20 vs almost all teams at home ?
 
Haroon786 said:
Why, even if he does bowl on tracks that aid spin the most, you still have to be good to average only 20 vs almost all teams at home ?
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Would you pick Hafeez for away tours based on his "home" performances? I would never trust Ashwin in Eng, AUS, SAF or NZ; what has ensured his selection on such tours is his ability to be a bit useful with the bat as well; but he's not someone who could bowl IND to victory singlehandedly as the specialist spinner unless he's playing in India, BD or WI; even then his work-load/pressure is significantly reduces given the support bowlers available to him, I wonder how he'd do as the spearhead of an attack.
 
He's an off spinner what do you guys expect, An off spinner without a doosra is not going to do much if the track doesn't help.
 
shaz619 said:
Would you pick Hafeez for away tours based on his "home" performances? I would never trust Ashwin in Eng, AUS, SAF or NZ; what has ensured his selection on such tours is his ability to be a bit useful with the bat as well; but he's not someone who could bowl IND to victory singlehandedly as the specialist spinner unless he's playing in India, BD or WI; even then his work-load/pressure is significantly reduces given the support bowlers available to him, I wonder how he'd do as the spearhead of an attack.
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Until he proves his credentials away from home, he won't be rated as the best in my books. However, it still takes quality to annihilate oppositions at home and that should be respected given how very few spinners have done that.
 
Haroon786 said:
Until he proves his credentials away from home, he won't be rated as the best in my books. However, it still takes quality to annihilate oppositions at home and that should be respected given how very few spinners have done that.
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He is decent no denying that and am not someone who isn't rating him but we should also factor in that his dominance at home is also a collective effort with significant load being decreased thanks to those lovely pitches and support bowlers.
 
shaz619 said:
He is decent no denying that and am not someone who isn't rating him but we should also factor in that his dominance at home is also a collective effort with significant load being decreased thanks to those lovely pitches and support bowlers.
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True - Yasir has had an over the hill Zulfiqar Babar since UAE 2015 vs England and those pitches are dead without spin until day 4 most of the time.
 
Haroon786 said:
True - Yasir has had an over the hill Zulfiqar Babar since UAE 2015 vs England and those pitches are dead without spin until day 4 most of the time.
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Like Misbah said, even 10 bowlers wouldn't be enough :))
 
Haroon786 said:
But one Yasir Shah is.

:afridi
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Sting's Crow theme began to play in my head with him coming down from the rafters after reading your post, I was imagining that to be Yasir Shah, the one man army/franchise for Pakistan; forget the 10 men, just give us one Yasir Shah! The Icon and Tormentor of lost souls in the Lonely Desert
 
shaz619 said:
Would you pick Hafeez for away tours based on his "home" performances? I would never trust Ashwin in Eng, AUS, SAF or NZ; what has ensured his selection on such tours is his ability to be a bit useful with the bat as well; but he's not someone who could bowl IND to victory singlehandedly as the specialist spinner unless he's playing in India, BD or WI; even then his work-load/pressure is significantly reduces given the support bowlers available to him, I wonder how he'd do as the spearhead of an attack.
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Since January 2015, Ashwin has bowled 700 overs in tests. The next Indian bowler is Jadeja who has bowled 344 overs. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...al1=span;team=6;template=results;type=bowling

In that time, India has bowled 2287 overs. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...al1=span;team=6;template=results;type=bowling

Out of those, Ashwin has bowled 30.6%.
 
Ashwin is a great bowler. People are unnecessarily underrating him. However, it is also a fact that he still has to perform outside Asia vs quality sides.

His batting adds more value and hence he is one of the most valuable cricketer going around.

Yasir is again a world class bowler and a great fielder. He too has great potential and can do well even in NZ and Australia being a leg spinner and has been leading the Pak team on his own.
 
Good stats.

However it helps when Jaddu (other spinner) averages sub 20 almost every time he plays and Zulfi averages 40.

Brings down the average ratio big time.

People said Jaddu can't bowl on flat tracks and will be dismantled. Only rank turner bully.

He went on to average 28 in Rajkot test in day 1 and 2 when Ashwin averaged 80. :))
 
^But upon reflecting on it, the gap in case of Yasir seems too big that it shouldn't matter.

Anyways....its very obvious when watching the game too.
 
Yasir fans need to find some logic here. They attribute Ashwin's success to Indian pitches, but guess what....Ashwin outbowled Yasir in Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. Even in England, Yasir actually averages 7 more.

How about we hype Yasir after he starts averaging lesser than Ashwin in different countries? Ashwin is comfortably ahead at the moment.
 
Zak_Fan said:
Yasir fans need to find some logic here. They attribute Ashwin's success to Indian pitches, but guess what....Ashwin outbowled Yasir in Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. Even in England, Yasir actually averages 7 more.

How about we hype Yasir after he starts averaging lesser than Ashwin in different countries? Ashwin is comfortably ahead at the moment.
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Yes, you are completely right, his figures are better

Also, about his overseas record, most people do not know that he has really improved as a bowler in recent time and does not rely on spin alone. Many of his recent wickets are because of his new found drip, loop and better length
 
Indiafan said:
Day 1 on a really flat wicket? And Yasir didn't in England?
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Was referrring to leagues apart comment.

Its not about stats. Its about bowling.

If you think Ashwin can't ever break through on this track, then you don't rate him at a level that he really is at.

Trust me, Ashwin didn't bowl anywhere near as well as he can.

The supreme flight wasn't there.
The ball wasn't landing in the right areas.
The accuracy was off due to rhythm.
The spin he got was disappointing. Needs to use more body which is a genuine ongoing concern for him.

The overall threat level was low barring odd moments.

He was a bit unlucky too...could have got Stokes twice and a hopeless tailender and his stats wouldn't look so bad but this was a genuinely poor performance regardless of pitch.

In Aus, he bowled well and kept fighting (without much guile though) and still averaged 50. That's ok but this is not.
 
Jaddu bowled well and got 3/80.

Ashwin is not that type of bowler so would never have got those stats but 3/100 or 5/130 was possible by him.

Also Kohli taking him off on Day 2 when he was troubling Stokes didn't help either.
 
So our indian friends are suggesting that Jadeja >>> Zulfiqar Babar, that Ashwin has more responsibility then Yasir and a significantly increased work-load and more pressure being the leader of their attack as the "specialist spinner" :yk2
 
Our friends are also suggesting that Ashwin is a bigger match winner then Yasir and single handedly won India Tests in England :yk, they will also boost his prowess by pointing out his epic performances against teams like BD and Lanka
 
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It's close to call for now but if Yasir can perform well in Australia I'll rank him ahead of Ashwin.

Just one other thing everyone looks at Yasir stats in England and they don't look good but he won us 2 games there which stats wont show. This is a case of stats being misleading so Indian posters remember that before you look at Yasirs average in India. It was also Yasirs 1st overseas tour, you want to give Ashwin a full series overseas before judging him, so don't write of Yasir after his 1st overseas tour where he won us 2 games.
 
Sachin136 said:
The one I quoted...
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So Basically,

Zulfiqar Babar >>> Jadeja

Flat pitches >>> Rank turners (for spinners)

Pressure/Work-Load significantly higher for Ashwin then Yasir

Ashwin Support Bowlers <<<< Yasir Shah's Support Bowler
 
Yasir for me. Ashwin should first win a game for his team in England, before comparing him with Yasir.
 
Haroon786 said:
Why, even if he does bowl on tracks that aid spin the most, you still have to be good to average only 20 vs almost all teams at home ?
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ashwin is a really good cricketer but i think teams have been playing his bowling really badly tbh, they've almost fallen for mystery/hype. i can't see england, who are an intellectual team and work things out better than most will struggle against him on any surface. and i couldn't see ashwin performing like yasir did in england at times.i would even pick herath over ashwin as a bowler
 
Zak_Fan said:
Yasir fans need to find some logic here. They attribute Ashwin's success to Indian pitches, but guess what....Ashwin outbowled Yasir in Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. Even in England, Yasir actually averages 7 more.

How about we hype Yasir after he starts averaging lesser than Ashwin in different countries? Ashwin is comfortably ahead at the moment.
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Yasir won two tests in England while Ashwin had zero impact. On that basis, Yasir is rightly rated higher. How hard is it to understand?
 
Big Mac said:
Lines up with what many people's gut will tell them, Yasir > Herath > Ashwin > Lyon
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Yasir I understand.

How Herath?

Ashwin and Herath faced off recently on one rank turner, one normal track and one pace friendly track and Ashwin won by a mile.

Herath averages 40 in Eng.

Ashwin did well in what little chances he got in England.

The one place where Herath wins over Ash is Aus 2010 tour where he averaged 33.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Yasir I understand.

How Herath?

Ashwin and Herath faced off recently on one rank turner, one normal track and one pace friendly track and Ashwin won by a mile.

Herath averages 40 in Eng.

Ashwin did well in what little chances he got in England.

The one place where Herath wins over Ash is Aus 2010 tour where he averaged 33.
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It's very close with Herath and Ashwin tbf, I just have a natural affinity with Herath because he's short and tubby.

Would have been better expressed as Yasir >>>> Herath ≥ Ashwin >>>>> Lyon but that's too much effort.
 
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Sachin136 said:
That is not a good way to look at it. Ashwin bowls with Mishra and Jadeja, who are far better than Pakistan's, Sri Lanka's and Australia's support spinners. That would cause the average of spinners in matches Ashwin has played to be lower.
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The spin average includes the opposition's spinners too so it sets a relative benchmark of the difficulty of the pitch. Now you can argue Pakistan's batsmen might be better at playing spin than the oppo's batsmen but this is just a guide.
 
I am yet to see Yasir Shah on a proper 4th/5th day spinning track. Something 75% of what India makes (If I'm missing some game, please tell me).

(Sounding like a broken record here) Ashwin's action is not clean. I am not saying he is a plain chucker (like Harbhajan or Ojha) but there is something there (noticed it without my green glasses on!).
 
WhenSultansBowled said:
I am yet to see Yasir Shah on a proper 4th/5th day spinning track. Something 75% of what India makes (If I'm missing some game, please tell me).

(Sounding like a broken record here) Ashwin's action is not clean. I am not saying he is a plain chucker (like Harbhajan or Ojha) but there is something there (noticed it without my green glasses on!).
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His action is clean but he intentionally chucks every now and then, if he was called for a Test he'd clear it with flying colours.
 
Bilal7 said:
He had zero impact. A 3/70 means nothing if he didn't at least give India the advantage in a match. Shah had a huge role in one of our wins and and won the other for us outright.
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Nonsense.

Shah went wicketless in the Oval first innings where Ashwin played 3/72 despite bowling with immense scoreboard pressure and nothing to bowl for.

Its only in 2nd innings Shah took 5fer which Ashwin never got a bowl.

Ashwin other than that got to bowl a bit in Manchester. That's all. Didn't play in any other game.

Yes, Shah has achieved more in England but let's not make untrue statements that Ashwin had zero impact as if he failed when he hardly got any chance to bowl.

You may be surprised but EVERY common pitch Ashwin or Shah played...Ashwin either matched Shah or did better. You can check it for yourself. And he averaged better in Aussie pattas (individual games) than Shah did in English tougher pattas.

All this doesn't mean Ash is better per se cos we can't assume he would have got those 5fers in Eng in Shah's position but people shouldn't get carried away.
 
The_Odd_One said:
Yasir won two tests in England while Ashwin had zero impact. On that basis, Yasir is rightly rated higher. How hard is it to understand?
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Firstly, Ashwin is yet to get a chance. Whatever little opportunity he got, he performed reasonably well. Secondly, yes Yasir may have won two Tests, but let's also not forget that he also had to disastrous matches where he was completely exposed in flatter tracks.

Overall record is the best way to judge a player. Ishant won a Test in England while Amir is yet to do it.. so does that mean that Ishant was better there? Fact is, both Yasir and Ishant average a miserable 40 there.
 
Zak_Fan said:
Firstly, Ashwin is yet to get a chance. Whatever little opportunity he got, he performed reasonably well. Secondly, yes Yasir may have won two Tests, but let's also not forget that he also had to disastrous matches where he was completely exposed in flatter tracks.

Overall record is the best way to judge a player. Ishant won a Test in England while Amir is yet to do it.. so does that mean that Ishant was better there? Fact is, both Yasir and Ishant average a miserable 40 there.
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Amir won a test in England agains Australia.

Ashwin has no one but himself to blame for not being good enough to stay in the team when these overseas tours come around. This is the same sort of 'Ashwin can do no wrong' thinking that is prevalent among some Indian posters these days.

Why did Shah play four matches in England? Because he was good enough to. Ashwin was dropped in England, Australia and South Africa because he's rubbish overseas.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Nonsense.

Shah went wicketless in the Oval first innings where Ashwin played 3/72 despite bowling with immense scoreboard pressure and nothing to bowl for.

Its only in 2nd innings Shah took 5fer which Ashwin never got a bowl.

Ashwin other than that got to bowl a bit in Manchester. That's all. Didn't play in any other game.

Yes, Shah has achieved more in England but let's not make untrue statements that Ashwin had zero impact as if he failed when he hardly got any chance to bowl.

You may be surprised but EVERY common pitch Ashwin or Shah played...Ashwin either matched Shah or did better. You can check it for yourself. And he averaged better in Aussie pattas (individual games) than Shah did in English tougher pattas.

All this doesn't mean Ash is better per se cos we can't assume he would have got those 5fers in Eng in Shah's position but people shouldn't get carried away.
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You are speaking as if the pitches don't change from series to series. Ashwin had zero impact on his tour of England and he has been dropped during India's overseas tours because he has been rubbish overseas. That is not an excuse for his failures but the biggest reason why he is a failure overseas. He wasn't even the spinner on his team.
 
A valuable knock of 70 with the bat from Ashwin yesterday.

Clearly, the best bowling All Rounder going around in the world well ahead of Moen Ali and Woakes.

As an All Rounder, I would still go with Ashwin although Stokes is giving close fight too and he seems to be a more genuine AR ( can win single handedly with either of dept.) than Ashwin is.

As for any other comparisons , I think Ashwin is the most valuable cricketer going around.
 
Bilal7 said:
You are speaking as if the pitches don't change from series to series. Ashwin had zero impact on his tour of England and he has been dropped during India's overseas tours because he has been rubbish overseas. That is not an excuse for his failures but the biggest reason why he is a failure overseas. He wasn't even the spinner on his team.
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Excellent post. Ashwin is a bits and pieces talent who makes the team thanks to his batting on the tours he is selected overseas, I rather go with Mishra as an attacking option tbh
 
Ab Fan said:
A valuable knock of 70 with the bat from Ashwin yesterday.

Clearly, the best bowling All Rounder going around in the world well ahead of Moen Ali and Woakes.

As an All Rounder, I would still go with Ashwin although Stokes is giving close fight too and he seems to be a more genuine AR ( can win single handedly with either of dept.) than Ashwin is.

As for any other comparisons , I think Ashwin is the most valuable cricketer going around.
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Moeen is a batting all-rounder.
 
Isn't the thread title very simple to comprehend ?? Who is the better bowler, Yasir or Ashwin !!

For me it's Yasir (Performs everywhere)
 
Zak_Fan said:
Firstly, Ashwin is yet to get a chance. Whatever little opportunity he got, he performed reasonably well. Secondly, yes Yasir may have won two Tests, but let's also not forget that he also had to disastrous matches where he was completely exposed in flatter tracks.

Overall record is the best way to judge a player. Ishant won a Test in England while Amir is yet to do it.. so does that mean that Ishant was better there? Fact is, both Yasir and Ishant average a miserable 40 there.
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We have just seen how awesome ashwin has been on the first flat track givin to him in years
 
Bilal7 said:
You are speaking as if the pitches don't change from series to series. Ashwin had zero impact on his tour of England and he has been dropped during India's overseas tours because he has been rubbish overseas. That is not an excuse for his failures but the biggest reason why he is a failure overseas. He wasn't even the spinner on his team.
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Yeah speak in generalities when I engage in a discussion with specific data. Every time the same thing happens.

Why bother quoting me asking for a response when you have to deflect the probing questions I ask which are backed by proper data?

A screw up years back means we can compare that bowler to the current version. Yeah right.

Think like a cricket fan mate and see from a wider perspective than just the pakistani one.

Personally have no issues accepting yasir has proven himself while ash is yet to do but that doesnt mean we can make any statement abt ash's lullooness without regards to reality.

Also have no qualms accepting ashwin bowled garbage this test until today.

We can twist things around but truth never changes.

Moving on......
 
To call Ashwin a better AR, cricketer in a Ash vs Yasir test bowling comparison is like saying Kallis was a better AR, cricketer in a SRT vs Kallis test batting comparison.

Irrelevant.

Anyways....if Ash continues to bowl the same way as he did against Eng for the first 4 days, then the current spin ranking would look like:

Yasir > Herath > Lyon > daylight > Ashwin

Concerning signs. Ashwin was never this much off since 2012 Eng. In 2013 Joberg, he was ineffective but not wayward.

Hopefully he sorts this out.
 
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sensible-indian-fan said:
To call Ashwin a better AR, cricketer in a Ash vs Yasir test bowling comparison is like saying Kallis was a better AR, cricketer in a SRT vs Kallis test batting comparison.

Irrelevant.

Anyways....if Ash continues to bowl the same way as he did against Eng for the first 4 days, then the current spin ranking would look like:

Yasir > Herath > Lyon > daylight > Ashwin

Concerning signs. Ashwin was never this much off since 2012 Eng. In 2013 Joberg, he was ineffective but not wayward.

Hopefully he sorts this out.
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Ashwin loses patience when pitch is not turning or turning slow he prefers bowling on tracks where there is quick turn a quick turning track does not mean its a minefield.

This pitch was a bog standard Indian track form 2000's in last couple of years India has not prepared these kind of tracks the more Ashwin plays on these sort of tracks he will eventually find a way to take wickets on them the likes of Kumble and Harbhajan found success on them so no reason for Ashwin to not do well here aswell.
 
Xoib said:
Ashwin loses patience when pitch is not turning or turning slow he prefers bowling on tracks where there is quick turn a quick turning track does not mean its a minefield.

This pitch was a bog standard Indian track form 2000's in last couple of years India has not prepared these kind of tracks the more Ashwin plays on these sort of tracks he will eventually find a way to take wickets on them the likes of Kumble and Harbhajan found success on them so no reason for Ashwin to not do well here aswell.
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Its always been problem with him. Doesn't have the heart of Kumble.

On lunch day 1, he finished with 2/35.

Then the slide started.

Same like in 2012 Ahmedabad. 2 quick wickets the prev evening, got Cook out the next day and then slide started.

The similarities are striking. :))

My guess as to what really happened was that he hasn't been bowling enough during his rest period. The moment England put on a partnership, his fitness and ability to be accurate on a tough pitch came to the fore and that exposed him big time.

That's why I am not sure whether he can get it all back together in the next test. He was bowling middle and leg line for most part this test. I haven't seen him bowl like that for YEARS.

But day 5, he somehow hacked together a changed action, put more body and was super economical while creating some chances which eventually helped India in the end (retrospectively speaking).

But not sure how much this hack jobs will help long term. Ashwin's rise was due to usage of a single action for all formats with emphasis on good flight and outside off line.

A lot of questions about his form now.....

Has to go back and practice, practice, practice BIG TIME....
 
Abdullah719 said:
Most of the discussion on this thread has been about their bowling in Tests.

In ODIs, there really isn't any comparison.
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You pointed [MENTION=132175]Sadevdesai[/MENTION] to the title.Now you are telling me its irrelevant and we should look for 'most of the discussion'.Funny
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Its always been problem with him. Doesn't have the heart of Kumble.

On lunch day 1, he finished with 2/35.

Then the slide started.

Same like in 2012 Ahmedabad. 2 quick wickets the prev evening, got Cook out the next day and then slide started.

The similarities are striking. :))

My guess as to what really happened was that he hasn't been bowling enough during his rest period. The moment England put on a partnership, his fitness and ability to be accurate on a tough pitch came to the fore and that exposed him big time.

That's why I am not sure whether he can get it all back together in the next test. He was bowling middle and leg line for most part this test. I haven't seen him bowl like that for YEARS.

But day 5, he somehow hacked together a changed action, put more body and was super economical while creating some chances which eventually helped India in the end (retrospectively speaking).

But not sure how much this hack jobs will help long term. Ashwin's rise was due to usage of a single action for all formats with emphasis on good flight and outside off line.

A lot of questions about his form now.....

Has to go back and practice, practice, practice BIG TIME....
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If Ashwin needs to bowl on such pitches, he will struggle because he isn't used to bowling dry himself but Jadeja does that for him. We should send Zulfi Baba over :yk :misbah
 
Sachin136 said:
Since January 2015, Ashwin has bowled 700 overs in tests. The next Indian bowler is Jadeja who has bowled 344 overs. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...al1=span;team=6;template=results;type=bowling

In that time, India has bowled 2287 overs. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...al1=span;team=6;template=results;type=bowling

Out of those, Ashwin has bowled 30.6%.
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Looking at the Overs/inns, Jadeja bowls 21/inns and Ashwin bowls 22/inns so no real difference. Yasir bowls ~30 overs/inns
 
Saurav said:
You pointed [MENTION=132175]Sadevdesai[/MENTION] to the title.Now you are telling me its irrelevant and we should look for 'most of the discussion'.Funny
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It would help if you tried to understand the ongoing discussion.

He said 'overall package'. That implies that we are including his batting in the discussion.

I don't understand what your point is. You want to compare them as ODI bowlers? Why? Yasir is not even considered a main pick for the ODI team.

The only comparison worthy of taking part in, is Yasir v Ashwin as Test BOWLERS. As a LOI bowler, Ashwin is superior. As a batsman, he is superior.
 
Adijazz1706 said:
If Ashwin needs to bowl on such pitches, he will struggle because he isn't used to bowling dry himself but Jadeja does that for him. We should send Zulfi Baba over :yk :misbah
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Well...he did bowl well in Kolkata 2015 pitch which was pacer friendly. And also in Indore where India piled on 550-5.

He bowled super dry in Aus 2014 when pacers were leaking at 6 rpo. His economy was only 3.5 odd there cos Aus batsmen got set on those pattas and started hitting. In regular spells it was mostly 2.xx.

This issue is different.

I sense unprofessionalism.
 
On today's showing I'm a better bowler than Yasir :mv

We need him to turn things round and find some sort of rhythm tomorrow otherwise it will be a long day for Pakistan.
 
Yasir was lucky to get two subcontinent like pitches in England. Barring those two matches, he has been horrendous in alien conditions, far worse than Ashwin.
 
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