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Ravichandran Ashwin or Yasir Shah - Who is the better bowler?

The comparison is quite one sided now. Yasir averages a mighty 56 runs/wicket in Aus, Eng and NZ. That's horrible.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Yasir Shah has slightly more than half the wickets of Ashwin.
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Not even half. Ashwin has 524 international wickets. Yasir has 184.

That is just 35% of Ashwin's wickets.

PS: I know you meant test wickets but I had to emphasize how big the gap is.
 
saeed5646 said:
I am just saying that 3year ago ashwin was talented enough to be in league of great test spinner but he failed to perform as a leader of bowling attack against top side at their home which will always hunt him and he will never be consider in the list of great spinner like murli,kumble and shane are.
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Fastest Indian to get to 50,100,150,200,250 wickets.

Fastest to get to 250 and 300 ever in the history.

This is despite being a finger spinner. Conventionally wristies do well overseas apart from few exceptions like Murali who also struggled in Australia. 300 wickets with that kind of average of 25 and strike rate of 52 is phenomenal. As someone said his competition is Jadeja.
 
Yep, just to make your bowler look good, demean 5 fers achievement and start the 4 fer / 3 fer routine instead LOL and one of them was accusing me of being satisfied/happy with mediocrity Ha!
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Fastest Indian to get to 50,100,150,200,250 wickets.

Fastest to get to 250 and 300 ever in the history.

This is despite being a finger spinner. Conventionally wristies do well overseas apart from few exceptions like Murali who also struggled in Australia. 300 wickets with that kind of average of 25 and strike rate of 52 is phenomenal. As someone said his competition is Jadeja.
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Thos turning pitches will create all records, so, what? On this, even Jadeja, a straight darter looks like a left handed Shane Warne but how is that something to boast about?
 
Monsee said:
Thos turning pitches will create all records, so, what? On this, even Jadeja, a straight darter looks like a left handed Shane Warne but how is that something to boast about?
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Compare Ashwin's away record with Yasir's away record.
 
Both tend towards mediocrity and inconsistency when conditions don't favour.
Ashwin probably the better holding option on unfavorable pitches.
Yasir better bet if desperate for forcing a result and overall attack makeup can cover for his profligacy.

Also, choice largely depends on how righty/lefty stacked opposition is.

Shout out to Keshav Maharaj though. Has arguably done better than both in SENA conditions in his short career so far. Both as holding bowler and wkt opportunity creator
 
Monsee said:
Thos turning pitches will create all records, so, what? On this, even Jadeja, a straight darter looks like a left handed Shane Warne but how is that something to boast about?
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I am not sure how long you have been following cricket. 1990s Indian pitches by far the worst designer pitches in Indian history. Whatever Ashwin bowls on is not even remotely close to what Kumble enjoyed in the 90s. Only reason Ashwin is good in India is not just because they are Indian pitches. Ashwin with SG ball in India is like Anderson with Duke ball. He is accurate, he has lot of variations, guile, flight. He does it without chucking. Check Sangakkara on Ashwin. He himself said in the commentary box "Ashwin was getting me out for fun repeatedly".
 
jnaveen1980 said:
I am not sure how long you have been following cricket. 1990s Indian pitches by far the worst designer pitches in Indian history. Whatever Ashwin bowls on is not even remotely close to what Kumble enjoyed in the 90s. Only reason Ashwin is good in India is not just because they are Indian pitches. Ashwin with SG ball in India is like Anderson with Duke ball. He is accurate, he has lot of variations, guile, flight. He does it without chucking. Check Sangakkara on Ashwin. He himself said in the commentary box "Ashwin was getting me out for fun repeatedly".
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The last part is because Sangakarra played Ashwin in his last ever Test series.

Where the latter got the former out 4 out of 4 times and a month prior, Yasir Shah got him out 2 out of 4 times.

He is a modest gentleman so he will not brag about his ability to play spin because in his prime, he even made the likes of Ajmal in the UAE (cheating or not cheating) his lackey.
 
ManFan said:
The last part is because Sangakarra played Ashwin in his last ever Test series.

Where the latter got the former out 4 out of 4 times and a month prior, Yasir Shah got him out 2 out of 4 times.

He is a modest gentleman so he will not brag about his ability to play spin because in his prime, he even made the likes of Ajmal in the UAE (cheating or not cheating) his lackey.
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Dude Sangakkara retired in that series doesn't mean he was retiring out of inability. When he retired he was ranked world no.3 or no.4. He just decided to go on a high. Many even questioned if it was a selfish move. There were dedicated threads for that as well.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Dude Sangakkara retired in that series doesn't mean he was retiring out of inability. When he retired he was ranked world no.3 or no.4. He just decided to go on a high. Many even questioned if it was a selfish move. There were dedicated threads for that as well.
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He was in decline but it was not as noticeable because of his high standards.

His average of 40.50 was his lowest since 2008 and had the lowest number of centuries (1) since that same year.

At his peak, which was 2010 to 2014, the years where Pakistan and Sri Lanka played each other almost every year, he dominated spin like no one since.
 
pratiktc said:
Both tend towards mediocrity and inconsistency when conditions don't favour.
Ashwin probably the better holding option on unfavorable pitches.
Yasir better bet if desperate for forcing a result and overall attack makeup can cover for his profligacy.

Also, choice largely depends on how righty/lefty stacked opposition is.

Shout out to Keshav Maharaj though. Has arguably done better than both in SENA conditions in his short career so far. Both as holding bowler and wkt opportunity creator
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I used to think this way too but its a wrong approach. The game totally changes when you hav an amazing pace attack.

Ashwin comfortably out-bowled Maharaj last series, who comfortably outbowled Lyon when Aus toured there next.

Maharaj averaged 50 or 100 in that India series (one drop or something) where Ashwin averaged 30 with tons of drops.

If catches were taken, Ashwin would hav averaged sub 20 in that series. That many were dropped.

I am sure Yasir will outbowl Maharaj in Asia and certain pitches outside Asia.
 
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Ashwin is a fantastic bowler and a very handy batsmen.

He will walk into India's all-time XI at no.8 behind Kapil at no.7 alongside Kumble, Zak and Srinath.

Indi have produced many great spinners but I dont know who to pick from older ones and Kumble.
 
the_outsider said:
So three 4fers in 14 matches. Plus multiple 3fer. That is hardly a bad away performance.
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He was woeful in Joberg 2013 and screwed up our chances (some fans haven't fully forgiven him for it to this day) and okay to poor in Aus 2011 tour.

That created a huge perception problem for him, so much so that even when he was decent to above average (in parts) in England and Aus 2014 tours, the image still stuck on.

Last Aus tour was atrocious. Many a times he would be the only one fighting while pacers at the other leaked at 4 rpo. Soon batsmen got set and thrashed him too.

Still managed to match Lyon's stats in the games they both played in that series.

I used to point out all these facts in the last couple of years and in this tour, the picture is getting clearer.

Him simplifying his action really has transformed him as a bowler. Increased his threat quotient. Not once has he looked toothless in any spell unlike in the past.

But he needs to improve his accuracy. Age old problem. Improved accuracy could allow him to flight more.

With all being said, Ashwin has to win a game for India in SENA. Yasir has won 2 for Pakistan which is a huge deal imho.
 
According to pak fans bad performances in overseas can be ignored if you have one or two match winning performances. (yasir's 10 fer in eng)
But then they criticise sehwag.
 
ManFan said:
The last part is because Sangakarra played Ashwin in his last ever Test series.

Where the latter got the former out 4 out of 4 times and a month prior, Yasir Shah got him out 2 out of 4 times.

He is a modest gentleman so he will not brag about his ability to play spin because in his prime, he even made the likes of Ajmal in the UAE (cheating or not cheating) his lackey.
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And then he went and scored about 1000 runs and 5 centuries in county cricket. So he had more than enough left in the tank.

When Vaughan tweeted that Mohd Abbas would get him out 6 times in an over everyone was like "dude keeps it real". And when Sanga said something about Ashwin, it's because "Sanga is a modest gentleman".

Hats off! :salute
 
Rana said:
8-41 against New Zealand

Not West Indies at home
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And where exactly is Yasir playing this match? Iceland? :))

Stats in Asia:

Yasir: 189 wickets, avg - 25, 5fers - 10, 10fers - 2

Ashwin: 277 wickets, avg - 22.5, 5fers - 24, 10fers - 7

:shh
 
Yasir Shah is obviously the better spinner and the best in the world. Ashwin has never been the best spinner in the world, in any format.
 
the_outsider said:
And where exactly is Yasir playing this match? Iceland? :))

Stats in Asia:

Yasir: 189 wickets, avg - 25, 5fers - 10, 10fers - 2

Ashwin: 277 wickets, avg - 22.5, 5fers - 24, 10fers - 7

:shh
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Yasir isn't even better than Jadeja in Asia, forget an Asian ATG like Ashwin.

Jadeja in Asia:

Wickets: 157
Avg: 20.5
5fers: 8
10fers: 1
 
Tells you a lot about the IQ of some when they post "stats in Asia", without considering that one bowler has never bowled in India while the other has never bowled in the UAE.
 
the_outsider said:
And where exactly is Yasir playing this match? Iceland? :))

Stats in Asia:

Yasir: 189 wickets, avg - 25, 5fers - 10, 10fers - 2

Ashwin: 277 wickets, avg - 22.5, 5fers - 24, 10fers - 7

:shh
Click to expand...

Anyone can grip the ball between 2 fingers and rag it through in India with the reward of some wickets
 
Would I pick Ashwin of Shah to win matches for me?

Shah any day
 
The only place where I feel Shah has not had any kind of real success is Australia. But then again India are so pumped to play against Australia because that’s their main rivals in their perception
 
Tells you about the education level of some people when you realise that both India and UAE are in Asia. :)))
 
in Aus - 84

in Eng - 40.73

in Ban - 34

in SL - 19.33

in WI - 21.96

in UAE - 21.96


Those are Yasir Shah's averages in different countries. So apart from the UAE, he is a champion in SL and WI.


And away from UAE, he averages 33.25
 
Ok I’ve heard it all

Ashwin, the king of bowling on ‘gandi Asian pitches’ is a better bowler than Warne and Murali.

Just goes to show how Indians value their own tracks and glorify their own players
 
Rana said:
Ok I’ve heard it all

Ashwin, the king of bowling on ‘gandi Asian pitches’ is a better bowler than Warne and Murali.

Just goes to show how Indians value their own tracks and glorify their own players
Click to expand...
Come on, i don't even like ashwin.
He is mediocre outside asia and i don't even want him to be in indias team for test in aus.
He is as mediocre as it gets but so is yasir.
 
Is Ashwin still playing cricket theese days? I havent heard about him doing much lately.. has he been injured?
Kuldeep and the other spinner are in the news more these days
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
He was woeful in Joberg 2013 and screwed up our chances (some fans haven't fully forgiven him for it to this day) and okay to poor in Aus 2011 tour.

That created a huge perception problem for him, so much so that even when he was decent to above average (in parts) in England and Aus 2014 tours, the image still stuck on.

Last Aus tour was atrocious. Many a times he would be the only one fighting while pacers at the other leaked at 4 rpo. Soon batsmen got set and thrashed him too.

Still managed to match Lyon's stats in the games they both played in that series.

I used to point out all these facts in the last couple of years and in this tour, the picture is getting clearer.

Him simplifying his action really has transformed him as a bowler. Increased his threat quotient. Not once has he looked toothless in any spell unlike in the past.

But he needs to improve his accuracy. Age old problem. Improved accuracy could allow him to flight more.

With all being said, Ashwin has to win a game for India in SENA. Yasir has won 2 for Pakistan which is a huge deal imho.
Click to expand...

Moeen has outbowled him on both the Eng tours, that's not good enough. No one expects spin to work in Aus flatties or NZ green mambas, let's see how Yasir does in SA (provided there are no green mambas)
 
Will like to see more of Yasir's bowling in SA. I like his bowling.
 
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Abdullah719 said:
South Africa, England, New Zealand, Australia
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LAHOL wala quat! Are you serious?

This is the absurdest thing I have ever read then! What, pray tell, is the need for auch a ghastly acronym and what is its significance? If its targeted at looking at performances away from the SC, why are we not including West Indies and Zimbabwe?

Make it Senawiwe. Or Senawiz.. senawizbabe!! Zbabesenawi!!


Besides its not like the conditions are similar in ... i cant say it.. ill sound ridiculous.. england, australia, nz ans south africa.. you can say lately australia is more like pakistani conditions.. SA is more like how Australia used to be.. England is somewhat like Bangladesh and NZ is just NZ..
 
Yasir is being compared to ashwin not the other way round. Ash reputation and stats in asia is much above yasir.
This was his best day of his career let him come back to normal, it will be obvious.
 
Hitman said:
in Aus - 84

in Eng - 40.73

in Ban - 34

in SL - 19.33

in WI - 21.96

in UAE - 21.96


Those are Yasir Shah's averages in different countries. So apart from the UAE, he is a champion in SL and WI.


And away from UAE, he averages 33.25
Click to expand...

I don't see much difference between them.Some of Ashwin's stats are better, but some Yasir's stats are better. Ashwin has a lower average, has been more economical, and has a better SR, in fact his SR is quite out of this world, but he has, as we know, played on very favorable pitches, on which spinners have run riot. Outside of their home conditions, the stats are remarkably similar:

Bad performance in Aus for both, with Ashwin doing better, but still very poor; mixed performance in England, but Shah has a 10fer and two outright match winning performances so Shah would always be selected for an England tour; then more or less the same in the Windies and Sri Lanka both in terms of average and SR, and Ashwin finally better in Bangladesh.

While I do feel that Ashwin deserves some credit for performing over more Tests than Yasir, by the same token it needs to be acknowledged that Ashwin gets play more often, which makes it easier to keep in form, and of course means that his overall numbers look bigger. By comparison, keep in mind that Yasir has had to take two long enforced breaks in the middle of his career.

If you look at those overall numbers again, they are again remarkably similar; Ashwin of course has more 5fers and 10fer, but that is simply because he has played more; Shah takes 5fers more often per Test, has roughly the same number of 10fers per Test, has gotten to the 100 and 150 wickets faster than Ashwin and will inshallah beat him and everyone else, ever, to the fastest to 200 wickets mark.
 
Apparently they are both lethal in Asia, but duds in the SENA countries :(
 
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It must be taken into consideration that Aswhin has had the opportunities to bowl on pitches Yasir never has.

8-41 > 7-59 :yasir :ashwin
 
Yasir's average in South Africa - a whopping 123. That to go along with his dreadful 80+ average in Australia shows that he's no way better than Ashwin .
 
For the first time i see him for a longer period. His bowling speed is too slow. Also not enough side spin. Batsman can camp on their backfoot for most of his deliveries and play late.
 
Bilal7 said:
Yasir Shah is obviously the better spinner and the best in the world. Ashwin has never been the best spinner in the world, in any format.
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Ashwin missed out on almost the entire Ozzie series due to injury. Kohli's making him bowl for 40 overs on the trot didn't help.

Yasir had probably the worst series a spinner has had in the past few years.
 
Ashwin after this AUS series but it must be said it was against club level batting line up (specially against spin - even Jadeja took wicket and Kuldeep and Vihari). Also Yasir didn't really get a realistic chance in these SA matches.
 
Pakhs said:
Ashwin after this AUS series but it must be said it was against club level batting line up (specially against spin - even Jadeja took wicket and Kuldeep and Vihari). Also Yasir didn't really get a realistic chance in these SA matches.
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What do you mean by:"- even Jadeja took wicket and Kuldeep and Vihari"
Jadeja is better than ashwin overseas and as good as him in asia. Kuldeep is the best emerging leggie.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
What do you mean by:"- even Jadeja took wicket and Kuldeep and Vihari"
Jadeja is better than ashwin overseas and as good as him in asia. Kuldeep is the best emerging leggie.
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What about Vihari? He did better this series than Ashwin did last series when Australia had better players? Jadeja might be good but he is not better than Ashwin.
 
Pakhs said:
What about Vihari? He did better this series than Ashwin did last series when Australia had better players? Jadeja might be good but he is not better than Ashwin.
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Vihari took wickets in England in the one innings he bowled (3/37). On the other hand he took 2 across 3 test matches against Ozzies.
 
What matter is India have 3 world class spinners in Ashwin, Jadeja and Kuldeep.

Pakistan have 1 world class spinner in Asia + WI. The others are mediocre. I don't remember the last time Pakistan's quality of spinners and depth was as low as this.
 
BreadPakoda said:
Vihari took wickets in England in the one innings he bowled (3/37). On the other hand he took 2 across 3 test matches against Ozzies.
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Those 3 wickets were in different circumstances. Anyway are you denying this is the weakest international batting line up specially when it comes to spin? Without smith and warner there is not a single player even I want in Pakistan batting line up which is second worst.
 
Yasir is likability in many venues. Ashwin can keep it tight in all venues. At this moment, Ashwin is comfortably ahead.
 
one is toothless and the other hopeless.
Both of them are of less use outside of Asia.
 
Not a debate anymore. Ashwin is a better bowler by some distance. As an overall cricketer, he is levels above.
 
Pakhs said:
Those 3 wickets were in different circumstances. Anyway are you denying this is the weakest international batting line up specially when it comes to spin? Without smith and warner there is not a single player even I want in Pakistan batting line up which is second worst.
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I'm not denying it. But Vihari isn't better than Ashwin under any circumstances. And part timers do end up taking some freak wickets.
 
BreadPakoda said:
I'm not denying it. But Vihari isn't better than Ashwin under any circumstances. And part timers do end up taking some freak wickets.
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Vihari is definitely not better than Ashwin but Aus batsmen even made him look like a great bowler. They were making Ashwin look better than Warne on the first day of the first test match. Anyway I also dont want to take anything away from Ashwin either.
 
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cricketjoshila said:
Bump!!!

Whats the verdict now?
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Ashwin may be a much superior bowler but Yasir has a bigger 'Dil', keeps giving away hundreds of runs to the opposition with a smile on his face and doesn't even expect wks in return.
 
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Very unlucky in this test. He bowled beautifully. probably one of the few who looked like getting a wicket with deft variations. Either catch was dropped or just evaded the fielder.
 
Ashwin is in a different class. His batting has gone down, but his bowling has gone up.
 
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