RAW supports TTP, acknowledges Indian analyst in Hindustan Times

[Mian]

https://tribune.com.pk/story/151508...kistan-acknowledges-indian-analyst-top-daily/

An Indian analyst, in a piece published in Hindustan Times, has acknowledged that the Indian spy agency the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) has ties with the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP).

Bharat Karnad, professor for national security studies at the Centre for Policy Research and author of “Why India is Not a Great Power (Yet)”, writes, “Severing relations with TTP will mean India surrendering an active card in Pakistan and a role in Afghanistan as TTP additionally provides access to certain Afghan Taliban factions.”

This, he added, together with “the Abdul Ghani regime’s desire for India’s presence and the tested friendship with Abdul Rashid Dostum and his Tajik-dominated ‘Northern Alliance’, ensures that no solution for peace in Afghanistan can be cobbled together without India’s help”.

Discussing US secretary of defence, Lieutenant General (retd) James Mattis’ trip to India starting September 25, Karnad wrote, “As a former head of the US Central Command Mattis appreciates Pakistan’s indispensability as base for military operations to bring the Taliban in Afghanistan to their knees. But Islamabad has insisted that India’s role in Afghanistan be restricted and complained about the Indian support for the TTP accused by Islamabad of terrorism in Pakistan. The RAW-TTP link was publicly revealed in April this year by its former commander, Ehsanullah Ehsan.”

The analyst believes that Mattis would request India to moderate its support for the TTP as it is s useful as an Indian counterpart of the Hizbul Mujahideen, Lashkar-e-Taiba, and Jaish-e-Muhammad. However, he maintained that the US official returning home empty-handed would not hurt relations with the US at all because there’s China; and the US needs India to strategically hinder it.

 

[Mian]

Nothing new we all know why India was so interested in Afghanistan.

 

[Rafa]

In other news, Sky is Blue.

 

[cricketjoshila]

So if we go by views of random "analysts" anything can be said.

 

[IMMY69]

So if we go by views of random "analysts" anything can be said.

I'll take the word of an anylist who had an article published in a national newspaper over some random troll on the internet.

 

[Bewal Express]

So if we go by views of random "analysts" anything can be said.

So this comes as news to you. Both countries are bad as each other with innocent people caught in the middle. Ind is desperate to hurt PK, and the PK's will not allow a poor country like Ind succeed.

 

[syed abbas]

There are many differences between Indian support for TTP and Pakistan's support for militant groups and India specific Lashkar e Taiba.India did not create TTP while Pak created LeT to target India.India does not provide sancutaries and safe havens to TTP in India while Pakistan provides sanctuaries to militant groups like LeT,Haqqani network etc.India does not plan to mainstream TTP by helping them to contest elections while Pakistan plans to mainstream banned groups by helping them to contest elections as witnessed in the recent Na-120 elections.Similarly,LeT's narrative about Islam and society is popular among Pakistanis while TTP's narrative is not supported by Indian people.
That being said,India does support TTP to carry out terrorist activities in Pakistan but to blame India for all terrorist activities in Pakistan is unfair and exaggeration.Our government often blames India to hide its own faults.It is high time that we accept our mistakes in our counter terrorism policy and stop externalization of our problems.

 

[Enigma_]

This is not the only terrorist organisation that India supports to bring down their neighbour. There are many more and will hopefully get exposed as time passes. We need to keep on expressing this to the global community because the real threat to South Asia and by large Asia is India. Don't be fooled by the painted image, the real ugly truth is hidden beneath it.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I'll take the word of an anylist who had an article published in a national newspaper over some random troll on the internet.

Why take word of any random internet troll?But posters here refuse to take even the words of various official agencies when its againist Pakistan.

 

[cricketjoshila]

So this comes as news to you. Both countries are bad as each other with innocent people caught in the middle. Ind is desperate to hurt PK, and the PK's will not allow a poor country like Ind succeed.

Except Pakistan no one has accused India of terrorism.While i can assure you that various countries have accused Pakistan of terrorism.

India supports the Afghan govt traibs the ANA and even NDS.Thats not terrorism.While NDS may have relations with TTP, it doesnt make India culpable.

If the poor country India whose economy is 8 times of Pakistan started really putting money into hurting Pakistan,Pakistan will be hurting a lot.

 

[cricketjoshila]

This is not the only terrorist organisation that India supports to bring down their neighbour. There are many more and will hopefully get exposed as time passes. We need to keep on expressing this to the global community because the real threat to South Asia and by large Asia is India. Don't be fooled by the painted image, the real ugly truth is hidden beneath it.

Has anyone in the global community even said a word in support?

 

[Sidilicious]

So if we go by views of random "analysts" anything can be said.

I actually believe it would be foolhardy if we weren't. As long as we don't let them get hold of much evidence, we will be fine. Every country including the Americans, Chinese and the Pakistani themselves indulge in it. Nothing wrong in getting our own back as long as we use it as a bargaining chip against Pakistan.

Also, India is not supporting TTP, but only the Balochistan Liberation Movement. TTP and India have very divergent goals, whereas BLA's goals can align with those of India.

 

[Bewal Express]

Except Pakistan no one has accused India of terrorism.While i can assure you that various countries have accused Pakistan of terrorism.

India supports the Afghan govt traibs the ANA and even NDS.Thats not terrorism.While NDS may have relations with TTP, it doesnt make India culpable.

If the poor country India whose economy is 8 times of Pakistan started really putting money into hurting Pakistan,Pakistan will be hurting a lot.

Ind supports Aghan terrorists and one of your pansies has been caught red handed in Baluchistan. Ind has nothing on PK, your economy is big but you have 100mns in absolute poverty. Your fascist has tried to hurt PK and nothing has come of it. Save your propoganda for your Ind friends!

 

[Waseem]

Except Pakistan no one has accused India of terrorism.While i can assure you that various countries have accused Pakistan of terrorism.

India supports the Afghan govt traibs the ANA and even NDS.Thats not terrorism.While NDS may have relations with TTP, it doesnt make India culpable.

If the poor country India whose economy is 8 times of Pakistan started really putting money into hurting Pakistan,Pakistan will be hurting a lot.

What i posted in Sushma's thread is relevant here
World doesn't care about terrorism as long as it impacts superior countries so Indians killing innocent people in Kashmir or Gujrat isn't world problem, Indians sponsoring terrorism in Balochistan (they openly brag about it as well) isn't world problem and world doesn't care if Indians use Afghanis to kill innocent people in Pakistan (around 70,000 in a decade). Reason why Trump speaks against Pakistan is because their OWN soldiers are killed in Afghanistan and not because innocent Afghans are killed.
Yogis and Modis can kill thousands of Muslims but you just wait and watch if westerners are killed, remember the backlash when some Australian Christians were killed? This became real terrorism issue for "The World".

 

[cricketjoshila]

Ind supports Aghan terrorists and one of your pansies has been caught red handed in Baluchistan. Ind has nothing on PK, your economy is big but you have 100mns in absolute poverty. Your fascist has tried to hurt PK and nothing has come of it. Save your propoganda for your Ind friends!

So the Afghan govt is terrorist?

That is Pakistan's version of Jadhav.Lets see what ICJ has to say.

With Pakistan's population now estimated to be closer to 220mn and not 180mn god knows what are the demographical socio-economic data of Pakistan.

As i said, if India really wanted to hurt PK they have many ways and means.

 

[Bewal Express]

What i posted in Sushma's thread is relevant here
World doesn't care about terrorism as long as it impacts superior countries so Indians killing innocent people in Kashmir or Gujrat isn't world problem, Indians sponsoring terrorism in Balochistan (they openly brag about it as well) isn't world problem and world doesn't care if Indians use Afghanis to kill innocent people in Pakistan (around 70,000 in a decade). Reason why Trump speaks against Pakistan is because their OWN soldiers are killed in Afghanistan and not because innocent Afghans are killed.
Yogis and Modis can kill thousands of Muslims but you just wait and watch if westerners are killed, remember the backlash when some Australian Christians were killed? This became real terrorism issue for "The World".

Great post.

 

[Waseem]

There are many differences between Indian support for TTP and Pakistan's support for militant groups and India specific Lashkar e Taiba.India did not create TTP while Pak created LeT to target India.India does not provide sancutaries and safe havens to TTP in India while Pakistan provides sanctuaries to militant groups like LeT,Haqqani network etc.India does not plan to mainstream TTP by helping them to contest elections while Pakistan plans to mainstream banned groups by helping them to contest elections as witnessed in the recent Na-120 elections.Similarly,LeT's narrative about Islam and society is popular among Pakistanis while TTP's narrative is not supported by Indian people.
That being said,India does support TTP to carry out terrorist activities in Pakistan but to blame India for all terrorist activities in Pakistan is unfair and exaggeration.Our government often blames India to hide its own faults.It is high time that we accept our mistakes in our counter terrorism policy and stop externalization of our problems.

Good terrorists and bad terrorists? Very lame argument that India didn't create TTP because end result is both groups kill innocent people and TTP has murdered far more innocent people than any other terror group in India. India has far bigger ties with BLA (another hardcore terrorist group) than even TTP and they have killed many innocents.

 

[Bewal Express]

So the Afghan govt is terrorist?

That is Pakistan's version of Jadhav.Lets see what ICJ has to say.

With Pakistan's population now estimated to be closer to 220mn and not 180mn god knows what are the demographical socio-economic data of Pakistan.

As i said, if India really wanted to hurt PK they have many ways and means.

Who cares what the ICJ has to say, come back after they let the Kashmiris have a say in their future. And yes the Afgh govt is sponsoring terrorists at your behest. And do your best to hurt PK, so far you have tried and failed and you will always fail. For me the problem is Kashmir and the solution is simple: independence from both. Then work together to tackle the problem of both which is absolute poverty.

 

[cricketjoshila]

What i posted in Sushma's thread is relevant here
World doesn't care about terrorism as long as it impacts superior countries so Indians killing innocent people in Kashmir or Gujrat isn't world problem, Indians sponsoring terrorism in Balochistan (they openly brag about it as well) isn't world problem and world doesn't care if Indians use Afghanis to kill innocent people in Pakistan (around 70,000 in a decade). Reason why Trump speaks against Pakistan is because their OWN soldiers are killed in Afghanistan and not because innocent Afghans are killed.
Yogis and Modis can kill thousands of Muslims but you just wait and watch if westerners are killed, remember the backlash when some Australian Christians were killed? This became real terrorism issue for "The World".

Here comes the victim mentality.Come out of it for gods sake. Can you tell me who bragged about terrorism in Balochistan?I hope you wont find me a quote with IFs and Buts.

Since you think this is a religious issue and muslims are being persecuted,may be you can tell me people claiming to follow which religion were involved in terror attacks in Newyork London Paris Barcelona Sydney Mumbai Peshawar Delhi Lahore Belgium Germany etc etc.Once you deduce that, let me know if you will support generalisation of them on the entire community just like you did in your post.

 

[Waseem]

What i posted in Sushma's thread is relevant here
World doesn't care about terrorism as long as it impacts superior countries so Indians killing innocent people in Kashmir or Gujrat isn't world problem, Indians sponsoring terrorism in Balochistan (they openly brag about it as well) isn't world problem and world doesn't care if Indians use Afghanis to kill innocent people in Pakistan (around 70,000 in a decade). Reason why Trump speaks against Pakistan is because their OWN soldiers are killed in Afghanistan and not because innocent Afghans are killed.
Yogis and Modis can kill thousands of Muslims but you just wait and watch if westerners are killed, remember the backlash when some Australian Christians were killed? This became real terrorism issue for "The World".

Rohingya issue is latest example of how much non western deaths matter to "The world". There has been mass genocide and thousands are living in worst conditions but no one cares a single bit, no one has invaded Burma yet and there has been no warnings or condemnations.

I must add Muslim world has been equally pathetic on Rohingya issue but point is about so called global community raising voice against terrorism. Imagine if Rohingyas were Christians and Muslims were butchering them similar way "peaceful" Buddhists are killing people, we would have seen a war already.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Who cares what the ICJ has to say, come back after they let the Kashmiris have a say in their future. And yes the Afgh govt is sponsoring terrorists at your behest. And do your best to hurt PK, so far you have tried and failed and you will always fail. For me the problem is Kashmir and the solution is simple: independence from both. Then work together to tackle the problem of both which is absolute poverty.

I will be happy if Pak Govt refuses to abide by the decision if ICJ, so far they have quietly complied as they know the consequence.

So the problem is with the Afghan govt. Talk to them.Do you see India blaming China for Pak sponsored terror attacks?

For you the problem can be anything.Kashmir isnt going anywhere and will remain as it is.Because Pakistan has no locus standi on the matter.If there is a issue its between Kashmiris and India.Pakistan must vacate Kashmiri territory and hand it over to UN for administration.Let UN forces handle it.

As you talk about Kashmiri independence can you tell me how you get back the Shaksham valley Pakistan gave away to China?How will you rescind the CPEC agreement that allows China to build a corridor through Kashmir?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Rohingya issue is latest example of how much non western deaths matter to "The world". There has been mass genocide and thousands are living in worst conditions but no one cares a single bit, no one has invaded Burma yet and there has been no warnings or condemnations.

I must add Muslim world has been equally pathetic on Rohingya issue but point is about so called global community raising voice against terrorism. Imagine if Rohingyas were Christians and Muslims were butchering them similar way "peaceful" Buddhists are killing people, we would have seen a war already.

Rohingyas wanted separation from Burma since 1946.First they asked Jinnah to have Rakhine state being included into East Pakistan, Jinnah refused to oblige.Then since 1948 they have been demanding independence from Burma, with on and off armed insurgency.It was not until 1982 when Rohingyas were stripped off their citizenship.

Just because you have a different religion you cannot demand separate nation and secession.

So as much as the Burmese army deserves condemnation, there is a lot of history behind this issue.

 

[Waseem]

Here comes the victim mentality.Come out of it for gods sake. Can you tell me who bragged about terrorism in Balochistan?I hope you wont find me a quote with IFs and Buts.

Since you think this is a religious issue and muslims are being persecuted,may be you can tell me people claiming to follow which religion were involved in terror attacks in Newyork London Paris Barcelona Sydney Mumbai Peshawar Delhi Lahore Belgium Germany etc etc.Once you deduce that, let me know if you will support generalisation of them on the entire community just like you did in your post.

Mate you always act like a holy cow when it comes to issues involving India, at least Pakistanis admit there is a problem and we need to resolve it. What you call victim mentality is a truth you didn't bother to comment because you know it's 100% true and i followed up with example of how "Global community" reacts to what happens in Burma as opposed to France, London, US etc. Forget that, even if a single westerner is killed in Burma reporting genocide of Muslims, it will become bigger news than the mass murders.

As for bragging, there has been countless videos posted in different threads on PP where Modi's advisors and other Indian Army officials claim of hurting Pakistan in Balochistan, using offensive defense against Pak in Balochistan and even saying "Hamain Hindustan ko bachaanay k liye Pakistan main khoon bahana hoga".

But yes please act like holy cow still even though the thread itself is about yet another Indian admitting what most of us have been saying for years and years.

 

[Syed1]

We all already knew that

 

[cricketjoshila]

Mate you always act like a holy cow when it comes to issues involving India, at least Pakistanis admit there is a problem and we need to resolve it. What you call victim mentality is a truth you didn't bother to comment because you know it's 100% true and i followed up with example of how "Global community" reacts to what happens in Burma as opposed to France, London, US etc. Forget that, even if a single westerner is killed in Burma reporting genocide of Muslims, it will become bigger news than the mass murders.

As for bragging, there has been countless videos posted in different threads on PP where Modi's advisors and other Indian Army officials claim of hurting Pakistan in Balochistan, using offensive defense against Pak in Balochistan and even saying "Hamain Hindustan ko bachaanay k liye Pakistan main khoon bahana hoga".

But yes please act like holy cow still even though the thread itself is about yet another Indian admitting what most of us have been saying for years and years.

India has its own set of problems be it Corruption Poverty Bureaucracy social and economic inequality or the latest mad cow situation.I have never skirted those issues.

Regarding statements on Balochistan, i am yet to find one that says India is doing something in Balochistan.Rather almost all of them talk about Balochistan being an option for India.Doesnt mean India will exercise it. Supporting terrorism will take away Indias biggest play on the international stage.It will again hyphenate India with Pakistan.

 

[Black Zero]

Both countries support terrorism ...and everyone knows this...

 

[UN talkz]

Both countries support terrorism ...and everyone knows this...

Spot on.... everyone knows that but still try to act like they don't know it

 

[Finisher]

It's a open secret

 

[English August]

If the news is correct, it's the right strategy. Enough of playing from the back foot. Pak needs to be paid back in the same coin. Just make sure that it can't be traced back to India publicly.

 

[www787]

India is a terrorist sponsor state in South Asia.

 

[Black Zero]

If the news is correct, it's the right strategy. Enough of playing from the back foot. Pak needs to be paid back in the same coin. Just make sure that it can't be traced back to India publicly.

Then you won't be able to complain to daddy.

 

[big_gamer007]

If the news is correct, it's the right strategy. Enough of playing from the back foot. Pak needs to be paid back in the same coin. Just make sure that it can't be traced back to India publicly.

It's a sticky wicket mate you see how pakistan supported these terrorists over the years and now they are paying the price for the ideology of these terrorists.. India should stay away from such ideologies don't want these fanatic ideologies running in India will only cause us harm in long term..

 

[Lonewarrior]

If the news is correct, it's the right strategy. Enough of playing from the back foot. Pak needs to be paid back in the same coin. Just make sure that it can't be traced back to India publicly.

so your govt involves like the events of APS attack and other 70,000 deaths in pakistan ?

 

[English August]

It's a sticky wicket mate you see how pakistan supported these terrorists over the years and now they are paying the price for the ideology of these terrorists.. India should stay away from such ideologies don't want these fanatic ideologies running in India will only cause us harm in long term..

There is a difference in situations. In Pakistan, there is hardly any difference between the army, ISI, terrorists and the civil society. They are interchangeable. They come from the same "talent pool", train together, work together, live together etc. Hafeez Saeed is seen as a "social worker" in their society. They are proud to host people like Dawood Ibrahim and OBL in their cities. Remember, Javed Miandad proudly married his son off to Dawood's daughter. Majority of Pakistani kids go to Saudi-funded madrassahs where they are taught that killing kaffirs is their duty and only purpose in life. That's how's the jihadi thought has crept into the society and would be next to impossible to eradicate.

What I am asking India to do (and hoping they're already doing) is different. They should only provide financial and logistical support to Baluchi separatists and others who are fighting the Pakistani deep state. This modus operadi is similar to what the CIA does all over the world. They play all kinds of dirty tricks but that doesn't affect the American society. You shouldn't let the "dirty business" to come back to your country. It should be done away from the homeland.

 

[Lonewarrior]

It's a sticky wicket mate you see how pakistan supported these terrorists over the years and now they are paying the price for the ideology of these terrorists.. India should stay away from such ideologies don't want these fanatic ideologies running in India will only cause us harm in long term..

well , its too late for India ....

 

[English August]

so your govt involves like the events of APS attack and other 70,000 deaths in pakistan ?

I hope RAW wasn't stupid enough to be involved with the attack on APS. Killing innocent kids doesn't achieve any strategic objective. But supporting clandestine operation against the Pakistani deep state is 100% fair game.

 

[akki]

well , its too late for India ....

Na na we dnt have any organization operating in india spreading terrorism in pakistan. dnt worry about india. we are moving in to right direction

 

[Lonewarrior]

I hope RAW wasn't stupid enough to be involved with the attack on APS. Killing innocent kids doesn't achieve any strategic objective. But supporting clandestine operation against the Pakistani deep state is 100% fair game.

stupidity at its best. looks like all indians are ignorant as the servey pointed out.
dude, in 70,000 deaths, the number of soldiers/army men/intelligence personnal is less thn the number of civilians(kids,women,men) gt martyerd in all these terrorist events.

TTP are mercenaries... thats what your NSA said in speeches.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Na na we dnt have any organization operating in india spreading terrorism in pakistan. dnt worry about india. we are moving in to right direction

we very well know how and where are you moving, let me tell you something, you cant buy everything with money.
and Ideology is a priceless thing.

 

[English August]

stupidity at its best. looks like all indians are ignorant as the servey pointed out.
dude, in 70,000 deaths, the number of soldiers/army men/intelligence personnal is less thn the number of civilians(kids,women,men) gt martyerd in all these terrorist events.

TTP are mercenaries... thats what your NSA said in speeches.

You need to learn to read. When did I say RAW was involved in killings of those 70K people? I said I hoped RAW was *not* involved in cases like APS.

 

[Lonewarrior]

You need to learn to read. When did I say RAW was involved in killings of those 70K people? I said I hoped RAW was *not* involved in cases like APS.

and you need to understand what i wrote, when you pay something to the mercenaries like TTP thn they dont discriminate when they blow up them.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I am sure that India, which follows the doctrine of non violence and is the land of Gandhi, can never support any organization which has blood on its hands. Anyone with a brain will know that.

 

[English August]

and you need to understand what i wrote, when you pay something to the mercenaries like TTP thn they dont discriminate when they blow up them.

Well, you gave sanctuary to these snakes -- why are you complaining now that they're biting you?! Go complain to Zia-ul-haq.

Instead of learning from your past mistakes, you continue to lionize people like Masood Azhar, Hafeez Saeed, Dawood Ibrahim, etc. What's the point of complaining about RAW when you have all these characters performing "social service" in your society?

 

[Major]

So if we go by views of random "analysts" anything can be said.

says the guy who would take the words of any random person when it comes to criticizing pakistan or defending india

 

[cricketjoshila]

says the guy who would take the words of any random person when it comes to criticizing pakistan or defending india

Which random person?plz quote where i have done this.

 

[big_gamer007]

well , its too late for India ....

There is a difference in situations. In Pakistan, there is hardly any difference between the army, ISI, terrorists and the civil society. They are interchangeable. They come from the same "talent pool", train together, work together, live together etc. Hafeez Saeed is seen as a "social worker" in their society. They are proud to host people like Dawood Ibrahim and OBL in their cities. Remember, Javed Miandad proudly married his son off to Dawood's daughter. Majority of Pakistani kids go to Saudi-funded madrassahs where they are taught that killing kaffirs is their duty and only purpose in life. That's how's the jihadi thought has crept into the society and would be next to impossible to eradicate.

What I am asking India to do (and hoping they're already doing) is different. They should only provide financial and logistical support to Baluchi separatists and others who are fighting the Pakistani deep state. This modus operadi is similar to what the CIA does all over the world. They play all kinds of dirty tricks but that doesn't affect the American society. You shouldn't let the "dirty business" to come back to your country. It should be done away from the homeland.

Here is a difference between USA and India which is America is not surrounded by Muslim nations it sits in a land far and beyond, in India however the case is difference as we have a strong Muslim population and we are surrounded by Muslim nations like Pakistan, Bangladesh whereas Afghanistan is also close by..

Now what I mean is that if India supports such groups there might be a possibility these people will try and take refuge in India or recruit from India or support some Indian madarrasas which or government RAW would allow but that eventually leads the ideology being spread.. Its a slow roves Pakistan didn't become like this in a day or two took them decades remember earlier they were growing better than India before we opened our economy to foreign investors.. In todays world the best solution is to stay away from these fanatics to be safe even if we destabilise Pakistan it would eventually mean more of their population becomes radicalised and ultimately will only result in more danger to us through proxy wars..

Best way to move forward is development in all of sub continent where we can slowly get rid of this sick radicalised ideology over the next few decades..

 

[Lonewarrior]

Well, you gave sanctuary to these snakes -- why are you complaining now that they're biting you?! Go complain to Zia-ul-haq.

Instead of learning from your past mistakes, you continue to lionize people like Masood Azhar, Hafeez Saeed, Dawood Ibrahim, etc. What's the point of complaining about RAW when you have all these characters performing "social service" in your society?

give me one simple answer, who created Taliban in first place ?

 

[English August]

give me one simple answer, who created Taliban in first place ?

Well, suit yourselves if you want to reduce a complex topic to a single question. Yes, it was created by the CIA but it was 100% Pakistan's blame they allowed themselves to be used by the CIA as a pawn in this game of chess. Your ISI acted too clever and thought they could use the situation to tighten screws against India. Too bad, your strategy fell flat and now the snakes have turned against you.

After the Russians withdrew in 1989, you had the opportunity to shut down your terror factories. Instead you moved the training camps to POK and started pumping terrorists into India. Well, you reap as you sow. Now deal with it.

Even now, 30 years after the Russian withdrawal, you are still lionizing people like Hafeez Saeed and treating Dawood as a guest of the state. Who do you want to blame for these decisions?

 

[English August]

Here is a difference between USA and India which is America is not surrounded by Muslim nations it sits in a land far and beyond, in India however the case is difference as we have a strong Muslim population and we are surrounded by Muslim nations like Pakistan, Bangladesh whereas Afghanistan is also close by..

Now what I mean is that if India supports such groups there might be a possibility these people will try and take refuge in India or recruit from India or support some Indian madarrasas which or government RAW would allow but that eventually leads the ideology being spread.. Its a slow roves Pakistan didn't become like this in a day or two took them decades remember earlier they were growing better than India before we opened our economy to foreign investors.. In todays world the best solution is to stay away from these fanatics to be safe even if we destabilise Pakistan it would eventually mean more of their population becomes radicalised and ultimately will only result in more danger to us through proxy wars..

Best way to move forward is development in all of sub continent where we can slowly get rid of this sick radicalised ideology over the next few decades..

Good post. Some of the points are not 100% aligned with how I'd think about about them, but offer food for thought nonetheless.

 

[Yossarian]

Regarding statements on Balochistan, i am yet to find one that says India is doing something in Balochistan.Rather almost all of them talk about Balochistan being an option for India.Doesnt mean India will exercise it. Supporting terrorism will take away Indias biggest play on the international stage.It will again hyphenate India with Pakistan.

You're either very naive (which you're not) or you're deliberately full of .......

Every major power always tries to ensure that they have their finger in the pie in every region of the world that is/might be in the future, strategically important, especially when there is potential for conflict (or even no potential for conflict whatsoever) in that region.

There is no way on earth that India would not be doing it's damnedest to do whatever it takes in order to ferment trouble in Balochistan, including joining hands with terrorist groups operating there. It's called war by proxy. The USA does it, Russia does it, the UK does it, China does it, Pakistan does it in it's neighbouring countries. India does it too, and not just in Balochistan, or even just in Pakistan. You can bet your bottom dollar India does in all the countries that are of strategic interest to India in it's part of the world.

 

[Yossarian]

Here is a difference between USA and India which is America is not surrounded by Muslim nations it sits in a land far and beyond, in India however the case is difference as we have a strong Muslim population and we are surrounded by Muslim nations like Pakistan, Bangladesh whereas Afghanistan is also close by..

Now what I mean is that if India supports such groups there might be a possibility these people will try and take refuge in India or recruit from India or support some Indian madarrasas which or government RAW would allow but that eventually leads the ideology being spread.. Its a slow roves Pakistan didn't become like this in a day or two took them decades remember earlier they were growing better than India before we opened our economy to foreign investors.. In todays world the best solution is to stay away from these fanatics to be safe even if we destabilise Pakistan it would eventually mean more of their population becomes radicalised and ultimately will only result in more danger to us through proxy wars..

Best way to move forward is development in all of sub continent where we can slowly get rid of this sick radicalised ideology over the next few decades..

Very good, sensible, well reasoned post.

 

[www787]

You're either very naive (which you're not) or you're deliberately full of .......

Every major power always tries to ensure that they have their finger in the pie in every region of the world that is/might be in the future, strategically important, especially when there is potential for conflict (or even no potential for conflict whatsoever) in that region.

There is no way on earth that India would not be doing it's damnedest to do whatever it takes in order to ferment trouble in Balochistan, including joining hands with terrorist groups operating there. It's called war by proxy. The USA does it, Russia does it, the UK does it, China does it, Pakistan does it in it's neighbouring countries. India does it too, and not just in Balochistan, or even just in Pakistan. You can bet your bottom dollar India does in all the countries that are of strategic interest to India in it's part of the world.

Stop , indian government and the best intelligent agency Raw is as pure and clean as River Ganges. India would never be involved in killing of innocents, unless you are Indian Muslim.

 

[www787]

Which random person?plz quote where i have done this.

You are a random person.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Well, suit yourselves if you want to reduce a complex topic to a single question. Yes, it was created by the CIA but it was 100% Pakistan's blame they allowed themselves to be used by the CIA as a pawn in this game of chess. Your ISI acted too clever and thought they could use the situation to tighten screws against India. Too bad, your strategy fell flat and now the snakes have turned against you.

After the Russians withdrew in 1989, you had the opportunity to shut down your terror factories. Instead you moved the training camps to POK and started pumping terrorists into India. Well, you reap as you sow. Now deal with it.

Even now, 30 years after the Russian withdrawal, you are still lionizing people like Hafeez Saeed and treating Dawood as a guest of the state. Who do you want to blame for these decisions?

tell this story in UNGA that CIA created Taliban and all, and i hope world will listen to you.

we have our own laws, if the proof against Hafeez saeed isnt enough thn we cant blame anyone. i am sure you will agree with it as Modi also gt the clean chit from Indian courts.
right ?

now tell me, who created mukti bahni and LTTE ?

 

[www787]

tell this story in UNGA that CIA created Taliban and all, and i hope world will listen to you.

we have our own laws, if the proof against Hafeez saeed isnt enough thn we cant blame anyone. i am sure you will agree with it as Modi also gt the clean chit from Indian courts.
right ?

now tell me, who created mukti bahni and LTTE ?

India

 

[KingKhanWC]

Both countries support terrorism ...and everyone knows this...

Depending on who defines what terrorism is, yes.

There is one crucial difference.

Pakistan supported and supports Afghans who fight against occupation and invaders.

Pakistan supports Kashmiri's who also fight against occupation.

India supports those who attack inside Pakistan and kill civilians.

Im not saying Pakistan's support hasn't killed civilians but we need to make this difference clear, agendas a different.

 

[English August]

Im not saying Pakistan's support hasn't killed civilians but we need to make this difference clear, agendas a different.

It requires special talent to contradict yourselves in one sentence!

Balochis have every right to fight for an independent homeland against the atrocities committed by Pakistani occupiers.

 

[KingKhanWC]

It requires special talent to contradict yourselves in one sentence!

Balochis have every right to fight for an independent homeland against the atrocities committed by Pakistani occupiers.

No they dont, Balochistan is NOT a disputed territory. By your logic the Naxalite have the right to kill Indian soldiers as they too want independence?

It's no contradiction, the objectives are different but innocents do get killed.

 

[English August]

No they dont, Balochistan is NOT a disputed territory. By your logic the Naxalite have the right to kill Indian soldiers as they too want independence?

It's no contradiction, the objectives are different but innocents do get killed.

If you spent a little more time reading up on naxalism, you'll find they aren't fighting for independence. They are fighting against what they (wrongly) think is the exploitation by the Indian state and establishment (combination of government and big business). This problem will go away as poverty levels go down in those areas.

If you were looking for a similar example as Balochistan, that would be Khalistan. But India successfully managed to fight off the evil plans of you-know-who.

Balochistan isn't a disputed territory but still is a legit fight for independence against a force that doesn't respect the Baloch identity. Even Bangladesh wasn't a disputed territory in 1971. But Pakistan managed to lose it. Something similar can happen in Balochistan too. Don't rule it out.

 

[KingKhanWC]

If you spent a little more time reading up on naxalism, you'll find they aren't fighting for independence. They are fighting against what they (wrongly) think is the exploitation by the Indian state and establishment (combination of government and big business). This problem will go away as poverty levels go down in those areas.

If you were looking for a similar example as Balochistan, that would be Khalistan. But India successfully managed to fight off the evil plans of you-know-who.

Balochistan isn't a disputed territory but still is a legit fight for independence against a force that doesn't respect the Baloch identity. Even Bangladesh wasn't a disputed territory in 1971. But Pakistan managed to lose it. Something similar can happen in Balochistan too. Don't rule it out.

They want India to become a communist state, it can be seen as independence from current rule or simply to overthrow the Indian government. I didn't mean creating a new country out of India but taking it over.

Are you really comparing Bangladesh to Balochistan? lol

No country supports any Baloch movement and most tribes in this region are supportive of Pakistan. Kashmir is disputed and the majority of Kashmiri's dont want to be ruled by India, silly comparison.

 

[English August]

They want India to become a communist state, it can be seen as independence from current rule or simply to overthrow the Indian government. I didn't mean creating a new country out of India but taking it over.

Are you really comparing Bangladesh to Balochistan? lol

No country supports any Baloch movement and most tribes in this region are supportive of Pakistan. Kashmir is disputed and the majority of Kashmiri's dont want to be ruled by India, silly comparison.

You're twisting my words. You said Balochistan isn't a disputed territory, I said neither was Bangladesh. But that didn't stop Pak from breaking up in 1971. It can happen again. A territory doesn't need to be disputed for it to become a legit struggle for independence. It just needs a little help from friendly neighbors.

As far naxalism in India, communists actually already rule a few states in India. Kerala even today, and West Bengal until a few years ago. Even in the center, the Congress govt between 2004-2009 was totally dependent on Communists for survival and therefore heavily involved in setting policy.

So I don't understand what point you're trying to make. If you think naxalites are about to overthrow the Indian govt, that's never gonna happen. Their space has been shrinking over the past several years.

 

[KingKhanWC]

You're twisting my words. You said Balochistan isn't a disputed territory, I said neither was Bangladesh. But that didn't stop Pak from breaking up in 1971. It can happen again. A territory doesn't need to be disputed for it to become a legit struggle for independence. It just needs a little help from friendly neighbors.

As far naxalism in India, communists actually already rule a few states in India. Kerala even today, and West Bengal until a few years ago. Even in the center, the Congress govt between 2004-2009 was totally dependent on Communists for survival and therefore heavily involved in setting policy.

So I don't understand what point you're trying to make. If you think naxalites are about to overthrow the Indian govt, that's never gonna happen. Their space has been shrinking over the past several years.

Do you not have a world map? Bangladesh is situated a long distance from what is Pakistan(now). India supported it's independence from Pakistan and there was a much larger percentage of people in the East Pakistan who wanted the same. Balochistan has little resistance, a small minority in a land which is within the borders of Pakistan not many miles away. The comparison is really poor.

Naxalites are a much greater threat to India than any Balochis have ever been to Pakistan. Your former Primes Minister stated it was the biggest threat faced by India. They have killed Indian soldiers in numbers many times and continue this struggle. India struggles to negotiate or contain them , Pakistan doesn't have the same problem in Balochistan.

India is a much bigger military and economic force but instead of showing some courage ,they are are using proxy means to attack innocent people by using Afghanistan as a base. When Indians in Afghanistan have been targetted it was in response to their state sponsored terrorism in Pakistan.

 

[Black Zero]

Depending on who defines what terrorism is, yes.

There is one crucial difference.

Pakistan supported and supports Afghans who fight against occupation and invaders.

Pakistan supports Kashmiri's who also fight against occupation.

India supports those who attack inside Pakistan and kill civilians.

Im not saying Pakistan's support hasn't killed civilians but we need to make this difference clear, agendas a different.

Pakistani Army been killing Balouchi freedom fighters since 48.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Pakistani Army been killing Balouchi freedom fighters since 48.

And rightly so. Balochistan is free already, always has been just like Punjab or Sindh.

 

[Third_Umpire]

Never understood why Indians are in perpetual denial mode when it comes to their country sponsoring nefarious activities in Pakistan. It's childish and stupid.

 

[Black Zero]

And rightly so. Balochistan is free already, always has been just like Punjab or Sindh.

Then BSF also doing the right thing in Kashmir.

 

[English August]

And rightly so.

So why do you cry when Indian forces use pellet guns against the Kashmiri terrorists? Indian forces have every right to defend themselves. All these security personnel have families back home, and no one likes to be attacked by stones. Do you?

 

[English August]

Do you not have a world map? Bangladesh is situated a long distance from what is Pakistan(now). India supported it's independence from Pakistan and there was a much larger percentage of people in the East Pakistan who wanted the same. Balochistan has little resistance, a small minority in a land which is within the borders of Pakistan not many miles away. The comparison is really poor.

Naxalites are a much greater threat to India than any Balochis have ever been to Pakistan. Your former Primes Minister stated it was the biggest threat faced by India. They have killed Indian soldiers in numbers many times and continue this struggle. India struggles to negotiate or contain them , Pakistan doesn't have the same problem in Balochistan.

India is a much bigger military and economic force but instead of showing some courage ,they are are using proxy means to attack innocent people by using Afghanistan as a base. When Indians in Afghanistan have been targetted it was in response to their state sponsored terrorism in Pakistan.

Now you're just making up stuff. BD may have had resistance closer to its liberation in 1971, but do you think there was resistance right after 1947? These things take time to build and cook. Baluchistan can boil over as well over a period of time. What's the hurry?

You're also making up stuff about naxalism in India. It's a law-and-order problem, not a separatist movement. And it's on the wane. You're welcome to look at number of incidents now vs. 5-10 years ago.

Finally, don't understand why India shouldn't use clandestine means even though its bigger than Pakistan. Clandestine ops is part of statecraft and is employed by all powers -- big or small. The two superpowers, US and USSR, used it during the cold war. China uses it now, so does Israel. So where is the question of courage and bravery?

 

[Waseem]

If the news is correct, it's the right strategy. Enough of playing from the back foot. Pak needs to be paid back in the same coin. Just make sure that it can't be traced back to India publicly.

Lol here comes the "Sati Savitri" attitude again, India should finally sponsor terrorism in Pakistan as if this is the first time they are doing it??? Indians take pride in sponsoring terrorism in East Pakistan back in 1971 resulting in creation of Bangladesh. India has been sponsoring terrorism in Balochistan for decades and last decade has been the worst with Indians using Afghanistan to launch several attacks mostly against innocent citizens.
Indians think it's fine to kill innocent people in Pakistan as long as Indians themselves don't blow themselves there and use Afghans instead (Even if Kalbhushan types are found involved, indians always only RESPOND to Pakistan as they are peace loving people).