Rest of the world XI vs West Indies under Clive Lloyd in the same era - Who will win?

[Harsh Thakor]

Pitting a rest of the world test XI against Clive Lloyd's West Indies from 1979-85. Arguably West Indies XI of that period was the best test side ever.



West Indies XI -1979-85

Greenidge

Haynes

Viv Richards

Kalicharan

Lloyd (C)

Larry Gomes

Dujon (W)

Marshall

Roberts

Garner

Holding




World test XI from 1979-1985


Gavaskar

Boycott

Border

Amarnath

Vengsarkar

Wasim Raja

Rodney Marsh (W)

Imran Khan (C)

Richard Hadlee

Dennis Lillee

Abdul Qadir


World XI from 1979-85 playing exclusively in era of Clive Lloyd has a devastating bowling attack but not as explosive as West Indies with the bat or as fiery pace.World team has 3 great allrounders with West Indies having none ,but still the Calypsos had more match-winners.

Chose Border ,Amarnath and Vengsarkar for great statistical performances with David Gower and Alan Lamb just missing out .Kapil Dev missed out by a whisker to Richard Hadlee who was more of a fast bowler than a genuine allrounder.Wasim Raja chosen because he could also bowl spin in addition to his great record against the Calypsos.


In most conditions I would back West Indies,though by the slenderest of margins.It would be very close on the sub-continent or in England.On fast tracks the Calypsos clear favourites.

 

[Robert]

You'd want Allan Lamb in there. He got five centuries against that attack.

Also you could have Alan Knott who played for some of that period and was a better bat than Marsh.

 

[Ab Fan]

Stephen Fleming should be there in ROW XI.

 

[jeetu]

When Clive LLoyd was Captain

Best Batsman (min 200 runs)

Player	Mat	Runs	Ave	100	50
Wasim Raja (PAK)	4	246	61.5	0	2
BA Edgar (NZ)	3	241	60.25	1	1
P Willey (ENG)	8	495	49.5	2	2
GA Gooch (ENG)	8	785	49.06	3	2
KC Wessels (AUS)	6	529	48.09	1	4
GP Howarth (NZ)	3	239	47.8	1	0
G Boycott (ENG)	8	612	43.71	1	4
AJ Lamb (ENG)	5	386	42.88	3	0
DB Vengsarkar (INDIA)	10	704	41.41	2	4
SM Gavaskar (INDIA)	11	745	41.38	3	1
AR Border (AUS)	14	1015	40.6	1	8
M Amarnath (INDIA)	8	599	39.93	2	4
BM Laird (AUS)	5	373	37.3	0	4
RJ Shastri (INDIA)	11	572	35.75	1	2
BC Rose (ENG)	3	208	34.66	0	2
Javed Miandad (PAK)	4	230	32.85	0	3
WB Phillips (AUS)	6	390	32.5	1	2
DI Gower (ENG)	10	568	31.55	1	2
Imran Khan (PAK)	4	204	29.14	1	0
Yashpal Sharma (INDIA)	6	247	27.44	0	2
J Dyson (AUS)	5	243	27	1	0
GM Wood (AUS)	9	425	26.56	0	3
G Fowler (ENG)	5	260	26	1	1
N Kapil Dev (INDIA)	11	438	25.76	1	2
SMH Kirmani (INDIA)	11	333	25.61	0	1
DW Hookes (AUS)	4	204	25.5	0	1
RMH Binny (INDIA)	6	270	24.54	0	2
GM Ritchie (AUS)	5	217	24.11	0	2
KJ Hughes (AUS)	13	584	23.36	1	2
IT Botham (ENG)	13	545	22.7	0	4
MW Gatting (ENG)	5	202	22.44	0	1
PR Downton (ENG)	8	258	19.84	0	1
AD Gaekwad (INDIA)	11	374	18.7	0	2
GF Lawson (AUS)	10	231	16.5	0	0

Best Bowler (min 10 wickets)

Player	Mat	Wkts	Ave	Econ	SR	5W	10W
Mohammad Nazir (PAK)	4	16	17.68	2.31	45.7	1	0
Iqbal Qasim (PAK)	4	17	17.94	2.21	48.5	1	0
Sir RJ Hadlee (NZ)	3	19	19	2.23	51	2	1
PJW Allott (ENG)	3	14	20.14	2.68	44.9	1	0
GB Troup (NZ)	3	18	20.61	2.28	54	1	1
N Kapil Dev (INDIA)	11	46	20.89	2.68	46.6	2	1
B Yardley (AUS)	3	20	22.3	3.12	42.8	2	1
Imran Khan (PAK)	4	10	23.6	2.62	54	1	0
DK Lillee (AUS)	5	24	23.95	2.73	52.6	2	1
G Dymock (AUS)	2	11	26.27	3.11	50.6	1	0
CJ McDermott (AUS)	2	10	27.3	3.95	41.4	0	0
RG Holland (AUS)	3	14	28.85	3.09	55.9	1	1
GR Dilley (ENG)	6	17	32.58	3.06	63.7	0	0
IT Botham (ENG)	13	46	32.89	3.59	54.8	2	0
GF Lawson (AUS)	10	34	34.08	3.23	63.2	2	1
BL Cairns (NZ)	3	12	34.91	2.7	77.4	1	0
RGD Willis (ENG)	7	20	38.7	3.96	58.5	1	0
JE Emburey (ENG)	6	12	39.75	2.18	109.2	1	0
RM Hogg (AUS)	8	19	42.05	3.44	73.3	1	0
Maninder Singh (INDIA)	7	12	43.83	2.21	119	0	0
RJ Shastri (INDIA)	11	22	47.22	2.77	102.2	0	0
TM Alderman (AUS)	7	16	50.75	3.32	91.6	1	0
S Venkataraghavan (INDIA)	5	10	58.6	3.08	114	0	0

 

[jeetu]

West Indies players stats when Clive LLoyd was captain (1979-1985)

Batsman (min 200 runs)

Player	Mat	Runs	Ave	100	50
CH Lloyd	45	2921	52.16	8	17
CG Greenidge	40	2819	51.25	6	16
HA Gomes	33	1999	51.25	7	7
IVA Richards	42	2832	50.57	9	14
PJL Dujon	28	1478	43.47	3	6
RB Richardson	10	566	40.42	3	1
DL Haynes	45	2567	37.75	7	12
LG Rowe	5	288	32	1	1
AME Roberts	19	526	27.68	0	3
EAE Baptiste	9	224	24.88	0	1
AI Kallicharran	13	445	23.42	1	1
AL Logie	8	230	23	1	1
DA Murray	10	273	21	0	1
MD Marshall	31	692	19.77	0	4
DL Murray	9	253	19.46	0	1
SFAF Bacchus	10	257	17.13	0	1
MA Holding	37	506	13.67	0	4
J Garner	37	379	10.82	0	0

Bowlers (min 10 wickets)

Player	Mat	Wkts	Ave	Econ	SR	5W	10W
MD Marshall	31	151	21.16	2.75	46	12	1
ST Clarke	5	15	21.2	2.44	52	0	0
J Garner	37	156	21.41	2.34	54.7	5	0
MA Holding	37	161	22.39	2.71	49.4	9	1
CEH Croft	18	75	23.74	2.65	53.6	2	0
AME Roberts	19	65	27.01	2.63	61.6	2	0
WW Daniel	4	17	28.11	3.48	48.3	1	0
RA Harper	13	32	28.56	2.35	72.8	1	0
EAE Baptiste	9	15	32.4	2.38	81.6	0	0
CA Walsh	5	13	33.23	2.95	67.5	0	0
WW Davis	9	22	40.63	3.12	78.1	0	0
IVA Richards	42	11	56.27	2.16	156.1	0	0
HA Gomes	33	11	58	2.26	153.9	0	0

 

[Harsh Thakor]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] please come here

 

[jeetu]

I would have gone for this lineup for ROW
1. Gooch
2. Boycott
3. Wessels
4. Gavaskar
5. Alan Lamb
6. Wayne Phillips (WK)
7. Imran
8. Kapil
9. Hadlee
10. Lillee
11. Iqbal Qasim

Against West Indies lineup of
1. Greenidge
2. Haynes
3. Richards
4. Gomes
5. LLoyd
6. Richardson
7. Dujon
8. Roberts
9. Marshall
10. Holding
11. Garner

Gavaskar scored a 200+ at No.4 so he gets in on technicality. Wayne Phillips was decent keeper but was much better batsman then other WK of the era. Iqbal Qasim was underated spinner who performed well against west indies.

I give ROW slight edge because they have no holes in XI and could bat deep.
For WI , Haynes was not at his best during this era (He got better and better in ODI's though). Also lack of 5th bowler would hurt WI as Gomes/Richards were not good bowlers.

 

[sweep_shot]

West Indies should win easily. It doesn't matter which players you select for World XI.

 

[Junaids]

1. Jimmy Cook
2. Sunil Gavaskar
3. Peter Kirsten
4. Martin Crowe
5. Allan Border
6. Clive Rice
7. Imran Khan (c)
8. Ray Jennings (wk)
9. Ian Botham
10. Sir Richard Hadlee
11. Abdul Qadir

 

[Harsh Thakor]

1. Jimmy Cook
2. Sunil Gavaskar
3. Peter Kirsten
4. Martin Crowe
5. Allan Border
6. Clive Rice
7. Imran Khan (c)
8. Ray Jennings (wk)
9. Ian Botham
10. Sir Richard Hadlee
11. Abdul Qadir

Why Ian Botham and no Kapil Dev ?Kapil was the best allrounder against West Indies,even ahead of Imran.Who no Gooch,who was the best opener against the great pace quartet?

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Please come [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] I apologize for forgetting Graham Gooch who should replace Geoff Boycott.IMO the best opener against great pace of his era.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Pitting a rest of the world test XI against Clive Lloyd's West Indies from 1979-85. Arguably West Indies XI of that period was the best test side ever.



West Indies XI -1979-85

Greenidge

Haynes

Viv Richards

Kalicharan

Lloyd (C)

Larry Gomes

Dujon (W)

Marshall

Roberts

Garner

Holding




World test XI from 1979-1985


Gavaskar

Boycott

Border

Amarnath

Vengsarkar

Wasim Raja

Rodney Marsh (W)

Imran Khan (C)

Richard Hadlee

Dennis Lillee

Abdul Qadir


World XI from 1979-85 playing exclusively in era of Clive Lloyd has a devastating bowling attack but not as explosive as West Indies with the bat or as fiery pace.World team has 3 great allrounders with West Indies having none ,but still the Calypsos had more match-winners.

Chose Border ,Amarnath and Vengsarkar for great statistical performances with David Gower and Alan Lamb just missing out .Kapil Dev missed out by a whisker to Richard Hadlee who was more of a fast bowler than a genuine allrounder.Wasim Raja chosen because he could also bowl spin in addition to his great record against the Calypsos.


In most conditions I would back West Indies,though by the slenderest of margins.It would be very close on the sub-continent or in England.On fast tracks the Calypsos clear favourites.

Sorry I apologize for selecting Boycott instead of Gooch .Gooch was the best exponent of the great pace quartet of his era.Please bear with me.

 

[Junaids]

Why Ian Botham and no Kapil Dev ?

Because of the Jubilee Test at Bombay!

 

[Robert]

Stephen Fleming should be there in ROW XI.

Didn’t play until 1994.

 

[Robert]

Please come [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] I apologize for forgetting Graham Gooch who should replace Geoff Boycott.IMO the best opener against great pace of his era.

Hmm, Boycott missed them in 1976 as he was in self-exposed exile at Yorkshire CCC.

He played ten tests in a row against them in 1980-81, opening with Gooch. The latter missed them in 1984 as he was banned (and how we needed him!).

 

[Robert]

World test XI from 1979-1985


Gavaskar

Gooch

Border

Vengsarkar

Lamb

Imran Khan (C)

Richard Hadlee

Knott (w)

Dennis Lillee

Abdul Qadir


Gooch and Border can bowl a bit if need me. Lillee and Imran can bowl really long spells.

 

[Robert]

World test XI from 1979-1985


Gavaskar

Gooch

Border

Vengsarkar

Lamb

Imran Khan (C)

Richard Hadlee

Knott (w)

Dennis Lillee

Abdul Qadir


Gooch and Border can bowl a bit if need me. Lillee and Imran can bowl really long spells.

Oops, a player light! Stick Kapil Dev in.

 

[Ab Fan]

How good was Botham's century in Bombay? Because in terms of opposition bowling attack, I think it was India's worst ever bowling attack in Indian conditions. Not a single quality spinner. Kapil Dev a lone man with no support from spinners.

 

[Robert]

How good was Botham's century in Bombay? Because in terms of opposition bowling attack, I think it was India's worst ever bowling attack in Indian conditions. Not a single quality spinner. Kapil Dev a lone man with no support from spinners.

That attack was Kapil, Gavri, Binny, then Doshi who had a pretty good record and Yadav who was competent at test level IIRC. I would describe the attack as workmanlike.

 

[Robert]

How good was Botham's century in Bombay? Because in terms of opposition bowling attack, I think it was India's worst ever bowling attack in Indian conditions. Not a single quality spinner. Kapil Dev a lone man with no support from spinners.

Though consider that Boycott, Gooch, Larkins and Gower got 36 runs between them in the first dig.

 

[Ab Fan]

That attack was Kapil, Gavri, Binny, then Doshi who had a pretty good record and Yadav who was competent at test level IIRC. I would describe the attack as workmanlike.

Barring Kapil, they all are pretty much nobodies in international cricket. in 70s, we hd Bedi, Chandra and Prasanna.

India's bowling in 80s post retirement of spin quartet was all about Kapil Dev.

In India, we had a better bowling in 90s than 80s with Kumble and Srinath.

In 00s, we had Zaheer, Kumble and Harbhajan. They all were world class at home. And in 10s, India had Ashwin and Jadeja and with the fast bowlers doing brilliantly as well.

That was the weakest Indian attack ever with Kapil the only world class bowler.

 

[Robert]

Barring Kapil, they all are pretty much nobodies in international cricket. in 70s, we hd Bedi, Chandra and Prasanna.

India's bowling in 80s post retirement of spin quartet was all about Kapil Dev.

In India, we had a better bowling in 90s than 80s with Kumble and Srinath.

In 00s, we had Zaheer, Kumble and Harbhajan. They all were world class at home. And in 10s, India had Ashwin and Jadeja and with the fast bowlers doing brilliantly as well.

That was the weakest Indian attack ever with Kapil the only world class bowler.

Interesting that Gavaskar, Vengsarkar, Vishwanath and Kapil didn't get many runs either - Sunny got a 49 in both innings, but other than that it was a low scoring match which England won by ten wickets. Emburey didn't get to bowl either innings, and Underwood barely bowled too - there was a bit of swing and some bounce too, nothing for the spinners. Only Botham scored heavily, rescuing England form 58-5.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2012/nov/22/ian-botham-stuart-broad

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...gland-only-test-england-tour-of-india-1979-80

 

[Ab Fan]

Interesting that Gavaskar, Vengsarkar, Vishwanath and Kapil didn't get many runs either - Sunny got a 49 in both innings, but other than that it was a low scoring match which England won by ten wickets. Emburey didn't get to bowl either innings, and Underwood barely bowled too - there was a bit of swing and some bounce too, nothing for the spinners. Only Botham scored heavily, rescuing England form 58-5.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2012/nov/22/ian-botham-stuart-broad

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...gland-only-test-england-tour-of-india-1979-80

Yes, a great inning no questioning on it but my argument only was that the bowling attack was quite mediocre with Kapil being a lone great bowler. Indian bowling today is miles better than that one.

 

[jeetu]

Barring Kapil, they all are pretty much nobodies in international cricket. in 70s, we hd Bedi, Chandra and Prasanna.

India's bowling in 80s post retirement of spin quartet was all about Kapil Dev.

In India, we had a better bowling in 90s than 80s with Kumble and Srinath.

In 00s, we had Zaheer, Kumble and Harbhajan. They all were world class at home. And in 10s, India had Ashwin and Jadeja and with the fast bowlers doing brilliantly as well.

That was the weakest Indian attack ever with Kapil the only world class bowler.

India's 80's bowling lacked a match-winning spinner. Most only performed in 1-2 matches then faded away. As a result India dropped home series to West Indies , England , Pakistan.
India has better away record away in 80's , then in 90's.
Kumble was major game changer for India at home in 90's.
Kapil did have some mediumfast bowler support but they were heavy condition dependent. Ghavri ,Roger Binny , Madanlal , Chetan Sharma comes to mind. India did beat England in England and nearly won in Australia. In ODI's India Won 83 WC with some of these bowlers. Also 85 B&H cup which featured every major team.

 

[Robert]

Yes, a great inning no questioning on it but my argument only was that the bowling attack was quite mediocre with Kapil being a lone great bowler. Indian bowling today is miles better than that one.

English bowling today is much worse )